> > This week on the wheel > > And the college debt crisis.

> > Now, student loan borrowers are paying the price ♪ > > for Connecticut Public.

Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse show that brings the politics to the people.

We got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here.

Student loans are once again the center of a major political fight in Washington.

Over the last few weeks, millions of borrowers have been navigating a new set of rules from changes in repayment plans and limits on how much some students can borrow the uncertainty around a loan forgiveness programs.

The Trump administration says changes will rein in what it sees as an unsustainable student debt system and encouraged colleges to bring down costs.

But students and their families are feeling a lot of uncertainty right now.

Confusion and frustration, too.

To help us understand what's actually changing and what borrowers need to know right now.

I'm joined by L I yell at Sheffey.

She covers student loans and higher education policy for business insider.

I yell at how you doing this morning.

> > And then well, thanks so much for having me.

Thank you for coming on.

Questions.

> > On anything that we're going to talk about today, you want to talk about federal student loans, any kind of questions you have about yours.

It us up comment on our YouTube live stream or give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, I yell at lets start with the big picture.

Number of changes to the federal student loan system took effect July 1st for listeners who have not been following every twist and turn.

What are the major changes that borrowers need to know about?

> > Yeah, absolutely.

There's a whole host of changes that borrowers are navigating right now and it's a result that the Trump administration's big spending legislation that took effect July first.

So and that we can start with the new income-driven repayment plans.

So the Trump administration introduced 2 new repayment plans.

One is the new repayment assistance plan.

This is intended to be the more affordable option for borrowers, you know, serving as an income-driven repayment plan.

But as far as our finding out, it's less generous than the ones that they hide prior.

They're seeing their payments go up on this plan and then we have the new tiered repayment plan.

It's a standard like repayment plan and it is the more expensive option for borrowers.

We're also seeing the introduction of some new borrowing cap.

So we in the SEC about July first, $100,000 lifetime borrowing cop for graduate students.

$200,000 borrowing, copper, professional students.

And this is something about has been controversial just due to how the administration is defining a professional degree.

And that's something that has been, you know, embroiled litigation.

It's still in progress.

But borrowers who previously qualified for the higher borrowing cost as a professional student could stand to lose that limit as the litigation plays out.

And I think the biggest thing that we're seeing right now as well as just the elimination of us, a plan, you know, this was a Biden era plan.

A gay bar is a lot cheaper payments.

A shorter timeline relieve and borrowers are now required to transition onto new plans within a 90 day timeframe that they're given.

> > But generally more options available to those folks who at least had loans, although they are losing the program, then there might be for new borrowers.

> > Yeah, that's exactly right.

So that borrowers who were previously making payments on their prior plan, they will not have to immediately get off that plan.

The idea is to phase them out.

So not all of the borrowers were paying can probably keep the terms they don't have to get kickoff immediately make those higher payments.

These new limits primarily as of now apply to borrowers with never take out a loan before and now they're entering the system.

> > You talked about professional degrees earlier.

We did a whole show on that earlier in the year.

Listen, folks, back to our archive of CD, Public Dot Org, Slash Wheelhouse.

Really interesting stuff there.

Really interesting when you talk to us about the ID, ours, that income-driven repayment plan that sounds rather intriguing to at least in terms of the rhetoric that you have, not that you're using, but that is used to actually say what the plan is.

The idr.

The name of it is what I'm trying to say.

what do you mention the introduction of a new repayment plan called the repayment Assistance Plan?

How does this plan work and how does it different from the income-driven repayment plans?

Many borrowers are familiar with.

I guess the more realistic income-driven real payment plans that people are Houston.

> > Absolutely.

So there are a few differences here with the new repayment assistance planned.

So what borrowers will find is that they will receive that, you know, the minimum payment you can get on this plan.

It would be $10 that it will set a borrower's monthly payment of one to 10% of their discretionary income.

The plant also will waive a borrower is unpaid interest, which is a facet of the administration, you know, has been touting as a reason that this is no beneficial for borrowers.

They don't have to deal with that Sparling interest if they are making their payments.

I think one of the biggest key difference here that borrowers might notice has bought this plan will forget a borrower's loan officer at 30 years of payments.

That's a lot different from, you know, the prior income-driven repayment plans that allowed for a leave after 20 or 25 years, depending on when he first entered repayment.

So far, what will likely start to notice?

It is a less generous bill likely be paying for longer.

And at higher payment, a bounce.

> > Also heard a lot about confusion among borrowers.

I you'll hear later in the show.

We got some that we're going to play back later and talk to folks about.

This is a lot of confusion.

A lot of people not understanding, obviously it does involve finances well, which is always tricky, particularly for me.

People struggling to figure out what plan they're in, what their payments will be even having trouble reaching their loans.

Service What's causing so much of the destruction right now?

Do you > > Yeah, absolutely.

I think think?

hearing a whole bunch of confusion and challenges as far as they're navigating the s I think we can point to a few things and the biggest one likely being stopping cuts to the Education Department.

you know, we're seeing dot the federal state and offices and has stepped up as it once was.

And it's more difficult to, you know, not to gave these questions from borrowers that are coming in, you know, the same thing borrowers are reporting they're just having challenges reaching their service or in the first are spending hours on you know, not able to sometimes even reach the customer service.

Representative, and that could make it really difficult.

But borrowers are trying to figure out, you know, what is going on.

But I have to do.

What is my payment due?

That's really contributing to the confusion stress that we're seeing from borrowers as they're working through these changes.

> > I guess we'll talk a little bit about the professional programs as well.

Again here.

And I guess graduate students as well because we do want to know about those new limits because that's a big change here as well.

And some of the reporting that NPR's sort of are a parent network here, at least in in terms of affiliation here.

Why did the Trump administration make that change and who is most affected is that these grad students?

Is it people with professional degree programs > > yeah, absolutely.

So that the Trump administration initially proposed narrowing who would 5 for the professional limit to just 11 programs that included programs like La Dentistry, Medicine.

But it's the good programs that might have previously qualified for the higher borrowing limit, including advanced are saying and, you know, social work and those are programs that.

> > You know, immediately we had advocates and lawmakers across the aisle saying that.

> > These are programs that meet about higher limit.

Their tuition can be higher than you know, that 100,000 caught for the graduate borrowing and it's something that, you know, could exacerbate the ongoing health care shortage of these students cannot got the money they need to borrow and then we have, you know, the Trump administration is that this is just, you know, it's something you know, it's it's not a finding other student as professional as professional or not.

It's just simply it's a position.

But of course, that's something that we're seeing play out in litigation as well.

> > Critics say these limits could push some students.

Words private loans puts that landscape like right now for folks.

> > Yeah, that's a great cause.

Said private lending has been historic.

Your risk You know, there's less oversight over private lending that there is federal interest rates can be hire.

It can just be harder for students to understand their rights, their options when they're in the private lending sphere.

But as you said, you know what, these borrowing costs.

There is the concern that students might be driven you know, more risk your loan products, which could include some private lending products just to supplement that federal funding gap.

So it's something that even private lenders themselves have said they're anticipating an influx of federal borrowers.

> > Is there sticker shock there or like incorrect payment estimates at least or is it more in everywhere?

They're kind of getting in.

He tells time reporting you've done there.

> > Yeah, absolutely.

I think with private lending it's difficult to say because it varies so much time.

You know, every longer has its own terms, their own interest rates that can vary based on the borrower's financial situation.

But I think borrowers are finding just across the border of that payments are high and whether they might be able to find a better rates are, you know, a better payment amount and private lending really does vary from borrowers have are wearing company to company.

> > When we talk about student loan forgiveness here and talking about some of these public programs.

If your pursuing public service loan forgiveness, the program allows some borrowers to have their loans forgiven after 10 years of qualifying payments this typically applies to people who work for the government or nonprofits.

You had that there was always deferred kind of payment programs.

Where do these programs stand right now?

This those is.

> > So public service loan forgiveness is still there.

It's still exist saying that borrowers are continuing to make payments toward forgiveness and pslf and where we saw challenges earlier is the Trump administration had proposed limiting eligibility for certain employer is that they did not, you know, a line with the administration's believe of what public services they had intended to roll that out on July first.

But a lawsuit block that from taking effect.

So as of now, public service loan forgiveness remains as it is.

And it is something to watch, though, because the administration has said it is continuing to evaluate the program.

You know, see where it could refine, who qualifies for the program.

So it's definitely something to follow.

And I think just one generally we're seeing backlogs just with processing forgiveness across programs of the administration is working through that on their timeline borrowers are continuing to get relieved through various programs, but it is delayed.

> > Can we go back to the Biden administration say plan real quick.

Designed to reduce student debt burden and even offered loan forgiveness in certain cases say plant struck down by a federal court.

What happens to people who were enrolled in that plan.

Now > > so right now borrowers are in the process who are on say that they're receiving notices from their servicer, giving them a 90 day timeframe to switch to a new existing plan.

And these notices are coming in waves.

That big began going out on July.

1st.

So some borrowers have gotten that timeframe.

Others are still waiting and servicers say they expect to complete sending out those notices by the end of 2026.

So once the Vargas that notice they can either choose to apply for a new plan to find a new plan if they do not select a new plan with and that they're specified time frame, they will be automatically placed in a standard plan.

So that is the most expensive repayment plan that they will likely face higher payments.

So if the Education Department is encouraging, say borrowers once they got that notice or even before then it just got off the plan.

> > Hearing a lot about these changes from the perspective of people.

Ready, have student debt, but there are also people who are about to take out loans for college or graduate school.

I know that what should prospective borrowers be thinking about before they take on new federal debt under these rules?

> > I think they should absolutely talk to.

You know, that the first step should be just a look at what the plans are.

A look at what your options are.

If you think you can avoid student loans, if you think that there is and option that can help you, you know, not take out the maximum amount.

That's absolutely, you know something to consider.

I think that, you know, borrowers all just be aware that, you know, when you are entering an agreement when you are, you know, looking to finance your education, my student loans, it's something that you will have to pay off once you graduate college.

You know, it's not something that you can try to divert.

You can enter for parents, but it is something that will likely not go away, especially with the Trump administration's focus on repayment.

So definitely understanding your options.

Understanding the implications of having students that is really vital when you're answering it got agreements.

> > Stepping back from the borrowers perspective now.

And again, I told you that we did some people on the street interviews in advance of the show and anecdotally, I can say that.

Part of what he might at what might be adding to the confusion, at least by understanding of the situation is that when you ask people about whether or not they have student loans?

Some folks are more focused on the people that are getting student loans or at least injecting rhetoric that they've heard from the administration about it.

So I wonder if this becoming sort of a political football.

Confusing.

The issue.

Maybe it's making more of a divide.

I think that both parties can agree that college affordability is a problem, but they might have different ideas about how to address it.

How would you describe the fundamental disagreement between the 2 sides if we're at least looking at the 2 major parties in the United States > > yeah, that's a great question.

And I think obviously everything for years.

This has been a quite a partisan issue just in terms of how to go about students, that student loan forgiveness.

I think what we're seeing is that there is bipartisan agreement about college costs are too high students.

Some students like the borrowing excessively about is a problem.

And what we're seeing here is about there's a sled.

And how do I just thought, you know, the Trump administration has been very, extremely focused on repayment.

They went car was back in the payment.

They want them figuring out the best way to make their payments as soon as possible.

Whereas on the Democratic side we're seeing, you know, more of a push to, you know, lay off on repayment as the administration and borrowers are working through the complexities.

The challenges, the errors that are and the student loan system and they're pushing for believe for, you know, sometimes even a pause on payments as these issues are sorted out.

So, you know, there is not agreement dot costs are too high.

Students are struggling.

They're borrowing too much.

But we're seeing that partisan split when it comes to the solution.

> > We have the rent is too d*** high party in the 20 ten's.

Maybe we'll have the interest rate is too d*** high party in the 2020's.

I guess that that exists.

It would be I let Chaffee who is the reporter that would be following this.

Thank you so much for your work and telling us about some of the work that you're doing at Business insider covering education, student loans and the federal workforce.

Thank you so much for joining us > > Thank you so much.

Thank today.

you so much, Iowa.

After the break, we're going to get a little more personal.

We'll talk about what all of these changes actually need for people.

We're struggling to pay their student loans and where Connecticut borrowers can turn for help.

Do you think students are taking on too much debt?

It us up.

Commenter YouTube, live stream or give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, listening to the Wheelhouse.

I Connecticut Public.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

> > We've been talking about major policy changes happening around student loans.

But for many borrowers, the biggest question is more personal.

What does this actually mean for me?

What if I can't afford my monthly payments want if I'm confused about my options.

Joining us now is Betsy Mayotte.

The president and founder of the Institute of Student Loan Advisors, a nonprofit that provides free student loan advice and advocacy for borrowers.

Betsy, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me.

Good to see over there on zoom in in studio.

We have Michelle Jarvis let men who is Connecticut's inaugural student but Spurs been Michelle.

So good to have you on the show today.

Thank you for having me.

Questions on what you're hearing so far about student loans.

Maybe want to talk to us about yours.

You can help us eliminate the situation is a pretty dared arna confusing one.

So it's up 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7.

Before we get into the challenges borrowers are facing right now.

Tell us about Tesla and why you created this organization.

Betsy, what Gap did you see that made you think borrowers needed this kind of help?

> > Yeah.

So I've been working in the student loan industry sense the Earth's over 25 years spent most of my career and in compliance and have a seat position.

And with my work, I realized.

The bars were looking for a neutral 3rd party.

Someone who had no association with their loans that they could get advice from.

And my personal opinion is student loan advice should always be free I would see I was trying create a space where would help people avoid the student loan scams that are out there?

Quite frankly, > > that is a that is tough words.

Can you explain more why?

It's a scam for us here.

Help us understand why it is.

I think I also told us a little bit about that, but just go into it.

What people face.

> > Well, I'm fortunately anytime there's a lot of money at stake.

Scammers, you're gonna pop up.

Yes.

And the student loan industry is no exception.

So we see these organizations, you know, without a commission is constantly trying to take them down and have successfully.

> > you don't listen up to $3,000 and we'll get your loans forgiven.

At bass.

They do nothing with the love that were stand up, making the borrowers to fall down their loans and they're out and then they, you know, they fi away.

It's it's terrible.

They victimize people that are already struggling financially with their loans.

> > That is very hard to hear Michelle, what what are some red flags and people should watch out for went.

Someone is offering help with their loans.

But what's one way to protect yourself from a scammer then in that regard, Betsy?

> > Well, in the first place, you should never have to pay for health of your student loans is all kinds of free resources out there.

This Tesla, shameless plug here is Michelle some soft and you know that your slump service and the Department of Education, all places for free advice.

But one of the first red flags as if they promise forgiveness right out of the gate.

Second red flag is if they ask for your any of your passwords, it's actually illegal for them to ask for your student password.

But this cameras will do it so not.

So those are the biggest things to watch out for.

> > Tell us about the work you do as a student loan about person for Connecticut.

We can also call you on buds.

I feel Feel initiated out of the county that the inaugural one Michel and congratulations there are there are overlaps in the work that you do and that Betsy does.

> > There you know, we try to work with the virus one-on-one.

Every situation is completely different.

You know, we talk about student loans, but every situation is personal.

The debt is different.

The family income is different.

The family makeup is different.

So we tried to go one-on-one with borrowers to make sure that they are understanding what their options are.

One on one with borrowers, how many bars, how many much you see I can see or speak to anywhere from 15 to 20 a day.

At 15 or 30 minute blocks.

You know, I I take this work very seriously.

I don't want anybody to feel rushed or pressured, you know, come across.

People $1020300,000 of debt.

That's not a five-minute conversation.

That's how how are we gonna try to make work?

So it's something that we implemented this year.

We the scene probably close to 200 people are as an office of one.

They say we but that's just me.

About 200 borrowers that we've worked with for their student loans.

A lot of people coming in and or your umbrella.

And I want almost call you Doctor Jarvis, let me because that you're seeing so many people here, but you can help with both federal and private loans, right?

Yes, yes.

> > And someone can come to even if they went to school outside of Connecticut.

Yes, as long as they're residing in Connecticut, they we will help You like don't give you more pretty know.

Give me all you were at that is so that is really touching that you are willing to do that.

I appreciate that.

You worked in financial aid for about 15 years from customer service, all the way up to directing and consulting so also, first generation college student yourself.

All right.

Eye to eye with that.

How does your own experience shaped the way you approach this job?

I think it gives me an extra layer of empathy.

I can completely understand how.

> > You know, as a student, you just so desperately wanted to go to college and would sign anything to be able to go and wanting to do the right thing in trying to make sure that you are repaying it.

But the people are turning to get out of repaying their loans.

They want to, but just not understanding the student loan landscape.

So I had federal and private loans as a first Gen student, I did receive public service loan forgiveness just 3 years ago.

I I graduated in 2015 with my master's so it takes it does take a long time for things to happen.

But I was making my payments.

So I think being able to relate to the borrower as a student and now also as a parent really goes a long way and people can relax and have a sense of that.

This work that we're trying to do is genuine and really trying to help people really want to hear from folks that want to hear your experiences.

So please give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, > > 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, you can also leave a comment on our live YouTube stream that's at YouTube dot com slash Connecticut Public will check it out and try to get it on the air.

That's you said that the last several years have been some of the most chaotic and student loan history.

From your perspective, why is that?

One of the biggest challenge is borrowers are coming to you with right now?

> > I the past 4 or 5 years we've experienced a lot of has never happened before.

It started with the COVID pause something like where but all borrowers were not required to make payments.

And we're growing interest.

It's never happened before.

Never mind for 3 years.

And then as they were transitioning back into repayment there was a call for broad student loan forgiveness that's never happened before and then that got shot down by the courts and then as a huge we're talking about with the earlier guests, a new payment plan was introduced that was challenged in court.

That's never happened before.

And all those things have sort of come together to sort of create the perfect struggles and confusion for borrowers.

And because of that, we're seeing, first of all, we're seeing the highest default rate that I've ever seen in my career on the data I've seen last, there were 9 and a half million people in the fall about one in 5 Connecticut borrowers are currently in to file their lot and that's going to keep rising because of the save plan going away.

That again, you talked about with your prior guest.

We've got 7 million people that have been saved limbo for the past 2 years.

And a lot of those borrowers can afford.

Whatever payment plans are left available to them.

Even with the new rap plan.

So that sort of all those things have sort of come together along with And at the same time, health care prices have gone up.

Gas prices have gone up.

I just read that produce is going up like 44% in the last 3 months and all these things at the same time are really hitting our low and middle class families > > really great perspective to hear from Betsy there.

I turn to you, Michelle, because you're you're hearing about COVID that you're hearing about a replay Mont repayment plan being both introduced and then struck down.

So she saying she's hearing a lot about has never happened before.

What are some of the perspective you could share?

But the biggest problems people are bringing your office.

> > I think they'd they just don't know what's real at this point because so many changes have happened.

I mean, looking at especially when you start from the COVID pause, there are some people that have never actually.

We're required to make a payment yet because of all these pauses in changes and litigations.

So people there's some borrowers have no clue where they're supposed to go.

Their servicer has changed.

The interest is accruing significantly while they've been in pauses.

So the confusion is there.

They don't know what's real anymore.

They don't know what what they're supposed to do at this point.

There's different.

You know, notice is coming out from servicers incorrect.

Information coming out from services to that.

They're supposed to change their payment plan, but then no, they don't have to.

When they log in the dates, things aren't aligning together.

So the systems are working together.

So.

Chaos and confusion for borrowers in all they're trying to do is figure out what exactly are supposed to do.

That's what you're saying.

That 9 million people something like that one in 5, Connecticut borrowers in default.

> > That's right.

And can.

> > And if there are any kind of delay car, you go ahead.

Sorry, and then give us options after that.

Go ahead.

> > Yeah.

So not only are there one and one in 5, Connecticut farmers are already in default for recent grads.

If you look at this data against the specific individual schools of the 52 schools that I looked at in Connecticut that 27 of them 30% or more of their recent grads are 90 days or more past due.

So had all.

> > Wow.

And what options you give those students, maybe even those schools to try to deal with trying to catch the students before they leave and try to figure something out.

> > In my experience, the best thing you can do for student loan viruses, give them the opportunity to educate themselves to know what options are available as Michelle mentioned, lot of our was just don't know what they don't know.

And at a school is in a great position as a trusted communications or us to make sure that their students and alumni know what lower payment options are available or deferments and forbearances for those already in the fall.

Thankfully in the Federal Student loan program, this ways out of it.

There's a program called Lone Rehabilitation.

They can also consolidate out of the fog and get the loan back in.

Good standing.

> > Yeah, tell me, guys.

I mean, are people just like, hey, I might as well go on for parents at this point like what the h*** am I going to do?

Like, I don't know.

Like.

Tell me about that.

Like what?

What's the biggest missed?

Is that a mistake that people make or should they do that like what he what do you say?

People are overwhelmed year.

> > I don't know if it's a mistake necessarily, because even making a partial payment doesn't count as fulfilling the payment.

So if you can't afford to make the payment, you're still gonna end up being delinquent on that and then potentially go into default.

So for parents is the option for you right now while you maybe try to figure out how this payment structures going to work and feeling my time forbearance.

Maybe the answer for people.

It's not the answer for everybody, but ignoring it and not making a payment at all is definitely not the answer.

Only making a partial payment.

Is it going to help either?

So for parents, just it might have.

It just may have to be that.

What a tough situation that I would imagine that the administration for what they're saying about taxpayers and things like that.

I would imagine that they wouldn't look too kindly.

> > And folks that are that are unable to make their payments, even though they're unable to make their payments.

Another issue we're watching is whether more families may turn to private loans as federal borrowing limit change to talk to.

let about that.

What should families understand about the difference between federal and private loans before taking on that debt?

I think federal loans even in the state that they're in right now do have are safeguards than private loans.

> > Every private lenders different.

They have their own rules.

They have their own repayment structure whereas federal loans, the these are your options.

See, really have to look at the barring every payment structure, the interest re.

And what's going to make sense for you for for each of them.

You know, private they they don't care who they want their money there.

There's not usually a lot of forbearance as our deferments.

They they're coming for you for terms of repayment where us again, federally, you have some of those other options.

So you really have to look at.

It's worth it.

think not everybody get approved for.

A private loan that is based on your credit wears federal loans are not based on your credit.

That is there a point where you're just like?

This is too much depth for you to take on.

And what's that conversation like?

How do you prep folks for that?

> > I say it all the time.

You know, I hopefully they're reaching out to me before they've actually started at the institution or maybe a year end.

> > And what I try to do with families like that is get them to understand the return on investment and the affordability of the doubt they're taking on.

So, for example, someone comes to be sane.

I need a $50,000 private loan for the first year of my child's undergraduate school.

I tell them to pump the brakes be and I point out to them if they're buying 50 grand for the first year there probably looking at a total of over $200,000 and private loans and then I stop early what that's going to look like for a monthly payment that they'll have to make every single month.

You know, I even built a 4 to $2500 payment.

Every single month for at least 10 years.

And then I make suggestions about attending a lower price.

Cool.

Look at community college and transferring into the dream School.

Maybe 2 years and to reduce the debt.

> > So let's go there because that's what I was going to ask you about next.

Certain students who qualify also could get their tuition covered.

I mean, I've tried to talk about students this way.

I mean, help us understand.

Maybe the allure of a community college.

I think so.

> > Got him to show you what I was going to make a mistake.

You start to thing in being in Connecticut.

You know, we're fortunate to have free community college now for especially for high-school students coming out of it.

So.

There needs to be a bigger conversation in my opinion on utilizing our community college.

We've great commute has we've great state colleges and universities as well.

And there's just > > always this, you know, kind of like feeling like a community college.

But you have an 18, 17, 18 year old who doesn't necessarily know what they're trying to do yet.

You know what I'm gonna do?

Some programs do some.

I know that a community college to the cool thing about it is that you could access programs.

You know, professional programs that you might not be able to access somewhere else and court sort of do like town stuff through the community college of those programs cost money like is everything free, free it and think everything is free for Elijah general like your general studies and beginning of Jenna is kind of out of the way.

So, you know, you can transfer into that, you know, that dream school or the four-year school.

So taking that into consideration.

But even like, as Betsy said, you know, is it worth taking all that debt again when you have that option, if you we want to be a teacher, this is the example I is for when I'm talking to people who are thinking about going out to the well being a teacher.

First of all biases priced in Connecticut because we have great programs.

But go to that community college.

Get those.

Jen is out of the way.

Figure out what kind of teaching you maybe want to get into and then transfer into Western and central and eastern end.

we want we want people to stay here.

We want our young can folks know right to say in Connecticut, be a part of our state in our community for the long haul.

So we need to make sure we're keeping it affordable for them when it comes to college.

I spent a lot of my childhood laughing in chiding folks that wanted to go to community college, North Western Community College in in Winsted Connecticut, which is right next to Torrington.

> > And guess where Frankie Graziano ended up at Northwestern Community College for a year and then went to UConn Torrington and then was able for UConn through the grace of God by Pell Grants.

But not everybody is able to access those things.

But there are options, folks, you just got to console the professionals like Betsy and Michelle.

We will continue to talk to for the rest of today show, but we first got to take a little bit of a break when we come back, we're going to step back for the media crisis and ask a big question.

Why a student debt become such a defining problem in the first place.

What would it actually take to change all that?

What role should the federal government plane, student debt hit us up.

Comment on a YouTube livestream or give us a call.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, You're listening to the Wheelhouse.

I'm Connecticut Public.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

We've been talking about what's changing in the student loan system and what borrowers can do to navigate the changes.

Why has it become so difficult and so expensive to pay for higher education?

The first place and what should the government colleges and borrowers themselves be responsible for when it comes to the cost of that education.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, Be quick.

If you're going to college because we want to get on the air.

Want to hear about your experiences and maybe Michelle and Betsy can actually help because they see maybe too many days.

They're trying to help them work.

Talk to you've described yourself.

Michelle is someone who really believes education should become a financial burden.

And obviously people shouldn't have to pay for the help to get it to understand.

So why do you hope people take?

What do you hope people take away from working with your office when they come and see us?

> > You know, I I hope they realize that they're not alone in this.

They have an advocate to help them navigate, threw this process in no question is a dumb question again, because everybody's situation is different.

But also just realizing that, you know, the clock is ticking decisions to have to be made, but they could make more than one appointment with us as well.

So as their situation changes, they can come back and see me 5, 10, 20 times if they need They should come and reach out to us as much as they possibly can with any type of question and reach out and make sure that they have all the information they need to make the best decision that they can for themselves There's people standing by ready to take your call where they call.

Where should they e-mail was a good place for them to go to.

> > Yep.

So our e-mail is student spied at CT Gov.

> > Or they can call 8, 6, 0, 710-1014.

And we can figure out how to make an appointment by that point as well.

But, you know, calling is probably the best and leaving a message sending an email visiting our Web pages right now where in a little bit of an influx transitioning from one office to another.

So if you Google search, you know, CT student person.

We will pop up and you can find our pictures there as well.

And we also linked it to our page as well.

people click on Michelle Jarvis.

Let me know.

Get right to that page on the Wheelhouse website.

> > That's the the Institute Institute for Student Loan Advisors.

How can people reach out to you all?

> > if you go to our website which is free student loan or we do all our counseling while in counseling via e-mail so we were working with between a 10200 virus today via email and so they need to reach out to us that they go to our contact us page.

They'll see instructions on how to reach out to us via email.

And we answer.

95% of our e-mails within a business day.

> > In the last segment you told us that there's a lot has never happened before.

When you talk to folks so there's this larger debate happening about why student debt is becoming this issue and why people are seeing some unprecedented things from your years of working in this field.

What do you see as the root problem?

> > I love this question.

Yeah, let's get it.

Let's get it now.

Listen in in my entire out and my whole career, I've watched Congress tinker with the student debt issue.

The problem is student debt.

It thus humans aren't the problem.

The problem is the cost of higher education.

And what has led to.

And there's, you know, people have different opinions as to why the cost of Iran's got up so much over the last 2025 years excuse me, in my opinion, all most of the fault lies with the fact that most states are all should say over the years have removed money for higher and from the budget, which is caused the cost of state schools to go up.

Now, if you consider that state schools from an economic perspective, our competitive perspective are your so called anchor price schools?

You know, here in Massachusetts UMass, I think it's like 27,000 a year.

Well, that makes a not a private nonprofit is charging 60 or 70 year that passes the laugh test.

We get the state's cool back down to 8 or 10 grand a year to 70 or $80,000 school no longer passes the laugh test.

The other thing is schools don't have any skin to speak of schools don't have real skin and the student loan debt game.

And that also needs to change.

I think for us to solve this in the long term.

Actually got to talk with somebody who had a graduate degree.

> > Federal student loans I visited Milford with interns, Katie Service and Amanda Adams on the shores of the sound.

I met Kyle Throttle the computer and data scientists from your neck of the woods there in Massachusetts.

He was vacationing in Connecticut.

I asked Russell what he thought about subsidize laws may be the federal government trying to pay for some of the staff.

> > Majors or programs which serve like a bigger social need and that we certainly would want to motivate people to go into those fields.

And I could see subsidizing paying off.

Those loans would be a good way to motivate I can see that there are ways certainly that paying off loans would in general be beneficial for the social fabric.

> > That's he would that have helped the issue.

Michelle due every action that would best thing.

Fall.

Yeah, > > I'm like I'm fairly confident they're trying to go the opposite direction.

And you know, yes, it has been something I talked about from a local yes.

> > They want to unsubsidized you know, graduate loans at one point were subsidized before I went to grad school by deferred at the different right cause that interest is just not right out of the gate.

So you know, I think subsidizing those is is helpful.

Great, you know, especially whether in school like not accruing that interest right out of the gate and maybe not having such higher interest rate either could be beneficial to to borrowers and maybe.

Motivate some people to want to, you know, take on some of these programs.

But I'm not quite sure that's going to work.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Betsy.

> > You know, I think they're going to have to if you think about the put the teachers, nurses, social workers, public defenders.

When all of those careers have in common is that you need a degree beyond an undergraduate degree in order to practice in that field in at 3.10 to really wrap up the debt.

> > But then the other thing those crews have in common is they tend not to pay very well.

So, you know, public service loan forgiveness was created for that scenario in particular to make sure that people could afford the debt that they would be required to take on to practice in these much, much needed fields.

Now with the new low moments, these people are going to be forced to go to the private sector where no lower payment options exist are very few.

And there isn't such forgiveness program.

So they're not going to be able to afford to work in these fields.

And we're going to end in my eye project.

We're going to end up with a lack of people performing these much-needed functions because of that.

> > Not you, ladies.

But this conversation has been like that snowblower that you're trying to turn on and prime and get to full throttle.

And now we're getting into the teeth of it here now are into it.

This is what I want to talk about.

There's pain loans, those paying interest on the loans to while in Milford.

Amanda, Katie and I were walking up and down Naugatuck Avenue.

This is near Walnut Beach.

We met Cynthia Hempel.

She's actually having our own affordability crisis.

She had a resume in hand trying to get a new job that you talked with us, not about her situation, but something Kearney's was experiencing.

> > The problem is now by the time you end up paying off your loans, you've been working for upwards of 10 to 15 years.

How do you ever get out of debt?

You know, when the interest rate is higher than what you're actually paying for, that there's no way that you can actually get out and call out of the hole even with programs that they say that are helping them.

I haven't really seen it.

My nice France.

10 Tuesday teacher in Milford.

She's still paying off your loans and she's been working for upwards of 4 years now.

You've got understand she's paying every month and but even the monthly payment is not going to get out of that hole with the interest.

> > That's the for someone like City is nice or anybody listening right now is just feeling overwhelmed by the student loans.

They don't know where to start.

They don't know if they're in the right repayment plan or they're worried about falling behind or falling into forbearance.

What is the first step you would recommend > > I would recommend that they go to student aid, DOT Gov and use the tools.

They're the calculators and read up on things like teacher forgiveness, public service loan forgiveness.

And get an idea if there following the rules and they're on the right plan.

And then if they still have questions, they should either com us out or email me.

> > You have advice in that regard to show?

I agree with that.

And you know, for borrowers who did attend and graduate institutions from Connecticut.

There is a student loan reimbursement program that the state offers that I don't think a lot of borrowers are aware of.

And you can be reimbursed up to $5,000 a year for for 4 years.

So a total of $20,000 as he meets certain criteria, there's an income threshold.

The community service component.

But there's also that option as well paying off these loans or maybe a little bit of relief at the other end of that from the state.

I think we're going to try to finish up with this question that we're getting from a caller.

> > And we'll have Michelle and Betsy take it after you ask it.

Go ahead.

You're on with the Wheelhouse.

And if you can, please be brief.

Here is we're trying to finish up.

Are you on the phone there?

Doctor Heights, you can hear us.

> > Hi, yes, I am.

I didn't hear my name.

Sorry.

So on.

Thank you so much.

My question and President Carter promise.

So I about 1000 current students or recent graduates from Hartford who are in college in dealing with these questions.

Is there a way to reach a larger group of state?

I love the work you're doing.

And the one on one the trust issue.

Hugely important.

But you all have away or would you be willing to do anything and a virtual platform for a larger group so we could get them at the jail for this.

> > Thank you so much.

Doctor highs.

Can you reach out to doctor eyes?

What do you all think?

How can you help?

> > I certainly I currently we do webinars as well.

But I do perform larger and larger platforms for organizations, any type of school.

So I will certainly reach out to Dr Hinds because I'm more than willing to do that.

Wonderful.

I just got to ask one more question and I'm going to try to do this.

There's the emotional side of this job.

> > Because there aren't just numbers on a spreadsheet.

These are people that your meeting every day and you said they're in $1020300,000 of debt.

Tell me how about how you feel talking about talking to people and then.

Why these people shouldn't be too embarrassed or ashamed of what they're going through.

But that is great question because, you know, last night actually talked to bar where she's like, I'm afraid to tell you what.

> > How much I haven't done to make it.

It's OK, I've heard issues that $135,000.

That's like, you know, the highest I've heard this week.

And it's only Tuesday.

> > So, you know, I you know, we being in this profession for so long.

You see and hear a lot of things.

So I don't think people should be embarrassed.

It.

It can be draining for me.

You know, it's hard, especially when you don't.

Have necessarily an answer for these people are a good answer to help them try to get out of the state because again, if these people are calling, they are actually trying to be their dad.

So, you know, the big thing of it is don't be ashamed.

You know, I'm not going be off and go run in, you know, yelling my neighborhood.

What what's happening or anything like that.

But, you know, just come and talk to me and, you know, we'll try to make it work.

We've been talking about the student loan system with Betsy Mayotte president and founder of the Institute of Student Loan Advisors and Michelle Jarvis.

and Connecticut's inaugural student loan about Spurs > > Thank you so much, guys Mont.

for coming on the show today.

Thanks for having me today.

Show produced by Coy when it was spectacular.

Thank you so much.

Chloe.

Edited by Eric Coston.

Our technical producer is Dylan Race Special.

Thanks.

Tess terrible Arce talk show visuals and operations to hear a Connecticut Public.

> > Download the Wheelhouse anytime on your favorite podcast app.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse.

Thank you for listening.

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