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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, everyone.

Steve Adubato.

We kick off the program with our longtime friend, Assemblywoman Shavonda Sumter, who is, in fact, the chair of the Assembly Community Development and Affairs Committee, and the President and CEO of Children's Aid and Family Services.

Good to see you, Shavonda.

- Always good to see you, Steve, and thank you for having me.

- Always.

Hey, listen.

We'll put up the website of the organization.

Tell everyone what it is and the folks you help.

- Children's Aid and Family Services, where I am honored to be the President and CEO, hits all my sweet spots of mission-driven work, taking care of vulnerable children, families, and adults.

We serve individuals with adoption, for over 125 years we're celebrating.

We also support folks in recovery and who need supports for prevention in addiction and impacted by the opioid crisis, and we've been doing that line of business for 45 years.

And we also serve individuals, adults with disabilities.

We have a day habilitation program and 19 group homes in northern New Jersey.

- Let's do this.

The website will continue to be up.

- Yes.

- Your resources, did it come from the state government?

- We have 85% of our resources that are contracted with the state.

The state entrusts us with the responsibility of making sure that the valuable resources have impact on those individuals, children, and families that have the greatest need.

I'm very proud of the work that we do.

Most recently, we were also awarded the NJ4S grant to service 170 schools in Bergen County to teach prevention so our young people will know there's other healthy options for coping with stress and mental illness.

- Since you talked about that, let's talk about the opioid crisis.

How bad is it and what needs to be done, not only in terms of your organization involved, but also then let's talk about the role of state government, public policy, the opioid crisis, please?

- So the opioid crisis has afflicted not only New Jersey, but across the country.

We work in partnership 'cause government can't do it all by itself.

We really need partners.

Horizon.

The Horizon Foundation has been a partner with us to reach families and provide support for those who are impacted by the affliction of opioid abuse and use.

We try to limit the shame and the stigma that comes with it and offer free Narcan and training on how to safely administer it because it's actually a life-saving treatment for individuals who may experience an overdose where a opioid can be laced also with fentanyl and it causes so much harm and trauma to families.

So we work with family support for the full family to help them to conquer and move safely through these challenging addictions.

- Talk about this.

You are Paterson, - I am.

- everything that is Paterson, and since I'm born and raised in Newark, I have an affinity for those who are very much connected to cities in our state.

- Yes.

- And so when you talk about the opioid crisis, I want you to talk about how bad it is in Paterson, and B, I wanna talk about something really positive going on in Paterson that you've had a strong hand in, a really positive thing.

First, how does the opioid crisis disproportionately affect a community like Paterson?

- So for Paterson, and that's my hometown, we've been impacted by every drug crisis, from the crack cocaine era to heroin being some of the cheapest and purest heroin that you can find in the country being found in Paterson, to now the opioid crisis and people being on the street and not receiving access to care treatment and learning healthy ways.

In Paterson, what I'm most proud of now, with the support of government officials, St. Joseph's Hospital, public community partners, we actually have street teams that are actually going into the community.

We have to reach people where they are.

We can no longer sit in our offices and in treatment facilities and believe that people are gonna come to us.

The pandemic taught us that we need to go into the community.

So more of that is happening now and I'm hoping for a greater impact in people receiving the services and treatment that they need to live.

- I need to talk to you about New Jersey Transit and some of the issues there in just a second, but give us 30 seconds on the really positive development in Paterson having to do with the refurbishing of an historic, important sports related facility, please.

- So Hinchliffe Stadium, you'll see a picture in my background.

It is a crown jewel.

We worked on it, it was a over $30 million restoration that we spent the time during the pandemic to revitalize.

That's actually now a field of dreams where our young people can play sports exposition games, and students are coming from across the state to play there.

It's actually where the Negro Leagues were played.

We're only the second stadium in the country.

And the exhibition hall will be up next year to show some memorabilia.

Box car racing.

And you actually have trails and pathways to the Great Falls, which is a national park established in 2016 by President Obama.

- Now did the great Larry Doby, from Paterson, the first African American to play in the American League in baseball after Jackie Robinson broke the color line right before that in baseball, did he play in this field, on this field?

- Larry Doby played in this field.

I'm told he hit it out the park.

(laughs) - I mean, you're talking about outta the stadium onto the streets, - Outta the stadium - of Paterson.

- So it might be in the falls somewhere.

- Yeah, right.

Do this.

Okay, now after we do that really positive thing, I gotta talk to you about New Jersey Transit.

How serious is the funding problem at New Jersey Transit?

A and B, how does it affect service, particularly for people who rely on public transportation in New Jersey, please?

- So Mayor Ras Baraka and I penned a letter to the editor on the reliance on public transportation that impact thousands of people, from commuters to work to grocery shopping to our students taking New Jersey Transit to get to school.

Reducing the lines and access is a danger to the economy, let alone to people's ability to take care of their basic needs.

It affects the long-term needs as well as short-term needs.

So I want us to be very conscious of access to transit and what it means for our individuals to get to where they need to be so that they can build their quality of life themselves.

- That is Shavonda Sumter.

She's a state assemblywoman.

How long you been in the legislature?

- So 12 years and I just got reelected uncontested so I'm so thankful to the voters and to my district.

- That's on November the 7th that happened.

Congratulations.

The chair of the Assembly Community Development and Affairs Committee and also the President and CEO of Children's Aid and Family Services.

Shavonda, all the best.

Every time you join us, we learn something new and we appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you, Steve.

Be safe.

- Same to you.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're honored to be joined by the Honorable State Senator Vince Polistina who represents the 2nd Legislative District.

Senator, good to have you with us.

- Great to be here, Steve, thanks for having me.

- You got it.

Where's that district?

- Atlantic County primarily.

So many of the towns in Atlantic County, including Atlantic City.

- You're one of the Republicans that got reelected in the November 7th election.

Some of your colleagues did not.

What key issue or issues really dictated the Democrats gaining some seats and the GOP losing some?

- I think the Democrats certainly after the last election had a focus on affordability, a little different than some of the Republicans.

We're talking about taxes, talking about making New Jersey a more affordable state.

Of course, the Republicans got a little more into some of the culture issues and some of the issues that generate excitement in the base, but also generate excitement in the Democratic base.

And so obviously, the message that we had didn't work very well.

We gotta regroup and get back at it.

- And by the way, congratulations on your victory, Senator.

- Thank you very much.

It was interesting here.

I mean, we did well when others did not, so it's good to be going back and being able to serve the people here.

- But what I'm curious about is this.

You've always been known as a straight-up, says it like it is, reasonable public policymaker in the Senate.

But I've asked every Republican, Democrats get asked other kinds of questions for other reasons, and this is the question I asked one of your colleagues today.

Do you acknowledge, because 70 to 80% of the Republicans polled say that the 2020 election was stolen and Joe Biden's not the legitimate president of the nation, and that Donald Trump didn't actually lose.

What do you believe?

- 2020 election is over.

Joe Biden is our president.

I think everybody has to acknowledge that.

And look, I mean now we're through this year's election, we're on to 2024.

So 2020 is in the rear-view mirror.

It's clear Joe Biden is our president, we gotta accept that, we gotta run against him as the incumbent president, and hopefully we do better next year.

- But Donald Trump lost.

- Yes, that's why Joe Biden's the president.

- Right, and the reason I'm asking is about election integrity, if you will, whether Democrats or Republicans win, people believing in results in election.

And dare I say, a peaceful transition of power, the governorship, the presidency, whatever.

Let's bring it back to home.

Parents' rights.

Senator, put this in perspectives for us.

We've had so many different people talk about this.

A parent's right to know something about their 10-year-old.

If their 10-year-old is telling a teacher or a school administrator in a public school that they're confused about their gender, that they may identify a certain way, what should parents know and not know and what parents shouldn't know because we just had the an LGBTQ advocate come on and say, "Parents should know, unless the parent or the child feels the parent is not supportive and the child's at risk."

Make sense of this for us, Senator, please?

- Yeah, I mean, from my standpoint, parents should be involved to be notified about their children; all aspects of their children's lives, including the education.

Yeah, I think parents love, care for their children, and they want to be involved.

And there are bad parents, just like there are bad apples everywhere.

But we can't try to take parents out of the equation entirely because of a few bad parents.

Parents, generally- - How do we protect those kids?

How do we protect those kids who feel at risk, Senator?

- I mean, I think that the educational community certainly has a role.

And if the student or the child feels like there is an issue, certainly that should be communicated.

And then I think you do need to take other steps.

But at the end of the day, Steve, I mean, parents love their kids, and I think they need to be involved in their children's lives.

And I think we're not gonna get society better unless we continue to involve parents and notify parents about things affecting their children.

- Thank you for your direct answer, Senator.

Let's bring it to the question of climate change, wind energy, et cetera.

We have been talking to a whole range of people for the last couple years about wind energy, the larger clean energy program in the state.

The governor's Energy Master Plan.

Question.

Orsted, the largest wind energy provider, I believe, in the world, or close to it, they're out.

A billion dollars on the line.

They were gonna get in some tax credit subsidy, or excuse me, a tax credit.

Now, apparently, they're not getting it according to those who we just spoke to in the Governor's Office.

But they left.

Now, where is from your view, Senator, is the wind energy policy in the state, and how does it relate to the larger climate change initiative in New Jersey?

- There's a lot to unpack there, Steve.

I think specifically to the offshore wind, the math doesn't work and numbers don't lie.

And when we saw the inflationary period that we're in, we saw the supply chain issues, when we saw interest rates rise, the math didn't work.

That's why PSE&G pulled out, that's why Orsted is now out.

The economics of offshore wind is just not there right now.

So we need to regroup.

From an energy standpoint, I continue to say we need all the above approach and let's have a real honest discussion.

- What does that mean?

Define all.

All what?

- All, everything.

Traditional, nuclear, some of the other... We're talking about all the alternative technologies, maybe with wave energy.

Certainly we need cleaner energy, but it's gotta be all the above approach, I think.

So the small cell nuclear reactors should be part of the future.

We're not gonna produce all the energy we need from wind, from offshore wind.

It's just not feasible.

We gotta have a real honest conversation about how we produce energy at a reasonable cost in this state.

And let's have an honest discussion about it.

- Some of your colleagues argued in campaign promotional efforts to beat Democrats that Governor Murphy was, quote, "Coming to take your stove."

You believe that's true?

- He was not coming to take your stove.

He was providing incentives for people to switch to electric stoves, but nobody was coming for your gas stove.

I mean, think some of this stuff obviously in campaigns gets a little overblown and you hear a lot of rhetoric.

- A little bit, a little bit.

- A little bit.

So I mean, back to when I said about having an honest conversation, we need to have a real honest dialogue about some of these topics.

And if we can do that, get in a room, be honest about the issues, we'll be in a lot better place in New Jersey.

- I gotta ask you this, Senator.

There's a graphic that's gonna come up as I ask you this, democracy in danger because...

It is.

It's not my opinion, everybody knows it is.

For someone who's as...

I don't even know if the word is conservative, moderate, but reasonable on so many levels, who works across the aisle, where the heck do you find the reason to be optimistic about getting stuff done between Democrats and Republicans, between Republicans and Republicans, between Democrats and left-wing Democrats, progressives who can't agree on very much either, where is the reason to be positive?

I know it's a big question, but please.

- I mean, Steve, I think we've done it in Atlantic County.

It's been two years I went back in the State Senate, and you looked at working across with the Democratic administration.

Very good relationship with Governor Murphy, Chief of Staff Helmy when he was there, Senate President Scutari, we've done it in Atlantic County.

We got the Atlantic County prosecutor in place, seven judges in place, appointments to Stockton, got some budget initiatives we were looking for here and investments into our region, and so I think that Atlantic County gives a blueprint, and that's why I do have hope because we have had tremendous success here in Atlantic County.

Just getting things done, not focusing on the politics, focusing on the people of Atlantic County and the region.

And I think that we've proven that we can do it, and so it gives me a lot of hope for the future.

- Last question on my end.

We're involved in an initiative called Reimagine Childcare, accessible, affordable, quality childcare.

How high a priority for you, Senator?

- Huge priority, I mean, obviously, back to the parental issue and just children, we have got to reinforce the family aspect of society.

We've gotta reinforce parents, we gotta make sure we're supporting children, obviously.

They're the next generation and we gotta make sure that every child, regardless of background, regardless of where they're from, understands that they have an opportunity.

Work hard, get educated, keep your nose out of trouble, and there will be opportunities in this state.

So I think childcare, giving them the notion that they will have a chance to succeed is very, very critical going forward.

- Senator, I promise this not be the last time you join us, and we really appreciate the conversation.

Thank you, Senator.

- Anytime, Steve.

Thanks for having me.

We'll talk to you soon.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're pleased to welcome Dan Cassino, Executive Director of the Fairleigh Dickinson University poll.

Good to see you, Dan.

- Hey, nice to speak with you.

Always a pleasure.

- You got it.

We're gonna put up the website for the poll.

Tell everyone what the poll is and what kind of issues and things you'll look at.

- Sure.

So the Fairleigh Dickinson University Poll, formally known as Public Mind, has been around for more than 20 years now, and we do public interest polling in New Jersey and nationwide.

We specialize in topics like masculinity, gambling, and conspiracy beliefs.

So aside from all that, we actually do a lot of polling here in New Jersey, and that's our big mission is that the politicians in New Jersey don't know what the public wants.

We know that from a lot of ways they behave and when we tell them what the public wants, they actually do respond.

We've seen that many ways in recent years and over the 20 years we've been doing this, that the politicians are desperate to know what the public wants.

It's our job to tell them that, and when we do, it works.

So when we call, pick up your phone, so we get a good sample, please.

- So, it's so interesting, Dan, you say the politicians need to know what people think.

I'm gonna get into a larger discussion with you about whether politicians are there to reflect the will of the people, even if they believe that the will of most people polled isn't the best public policy.

That's a question we'll get into, but as it relates to the November 7th legislative election, and we're taping this obviously after that, it'd be seen after that.

What were the polls telling you that the people, the people, most people, cared about and how did it manifest itself in the Democrats gaining more seats in the Senate and more seats in the lower house in the assembly, and gaining a much, really a virtually a super majority in both houses, which they haven't had in years.

- So we did see there were big opportunities for Republicans.

That's where our polling showed, is if voters had been thinking about their Republican issues like parental choice and parental controlled schools, then voters were willing to side with Republicans.

We saw huge shifts, especially among independents.

What the results tell us though, is that none of this matters, number one, if Republicans can't get their message out.

In New Jersey, it is hard to reach voters, especially in an off year election like this most recent one.

Most voters simply aren't paying very much attention.

In trying to get that message, or any message out to those voters is incredibly difficult.

Republicans weren't up to the task.

The other thing we saw is that partisanship dominates.

When people are looking at who they're gonna vote for, they are not thinking about the individual candidate on the ballot, for the most part.

They are thinking about partisanship.

Democrats vote for Democrats, Republicans vote for Republicans unless you give them a compelling reason to, otherwise.

And in most cases, outside of just a couple districts, nobody gave them a compelling reason to do that.

- And independents, people who are not registered as Democrats or Republicans disproportionately chose not to vote in an off-year legislative election.

Correct?

- Absolutely right.

Turnout was pretty good, but we're still in the upper twenties.

Voting is a habit.

If you vote once, you're likely to vote again, if you keep on voting, you're gonna vote in every election.

But independents, by and large aren't those habitual voters.

Why?

There's no reason to follow baseball if you don't have a favorite team.

If you don't care who wins, you don't like Republicans or Democrats, why would you pay attention to politics?

Especially now when the political arena is so toxic.

Lots of people are saying, "You know what, pox on their house I don't like any of these guys," and just turn it off.

- Okay, but Dan, here's what's interesting, really interesting to me.

You mentioned the issue of parental rights.

Now I'm a big fan of my area of research academically at a different institution, Rutgers back in the day, was in communication in media, meaning how you frame the question, often dictates the response you get.

Here's the question.

You mentioned parental choice, the question about parent, excuse me, parental notification about a child who may be expressing to a school administrator in a public school that he or she is, or they are confused about gender, that they identify in a certain way, and the question becomes, should parents know or not?

But how you frame that question, has an awful lot to do with the response you get.

How was that question framed?

So you found out what people thought about parental rights?

- Sure.

So the way we framed that question was by asking not about any one issue in particular.

We're actually trying to model it on the way Republicans are trying to frame the election.

We asked about how much control parents should have over what happens in schools: Little bit control, moderate control or complete control.

And we find is most people in New Jersey are right in the middle.

They say people, parents should have some control, but not too much control.

And what both party, political parties are trying to do is frame the other side as being the extremists.

Republicans saying, "Democrats don't want you to have any control in the schools."

Democrats saying, "Republicans want the craziest person on your school board to run everything."

And both sides are trying to frame the other one as being the extremist.

When in reality, most people in New Jersey, and actually I think most politicians in New Jersey are right there in the middle.

- You know, Dan, what I'm curious about in the graphic will come up democracy at a crossroads, excuse me.

It used to be called, democracy at a crossroads.

I asked our team to change it to "democracy in danger."

To what degree, based on the public not being engaged in the political process, and more importantly, issues and where candidates stand on issues.

Trust me, there's a question here.

And frankly, having low information about a lot of these issues and being turned off, you used that phrase before it turned off, "a pox on both of their houses".

What does that all mean for the future of representative democracy, Dan?

- Well, in New Jersey, we have a system that's designed to turn people off, to get people to not pay attention to the (indistinct), to not pay attention to the issues.

We have a very closed political system run large part by party bosses at the county and at the state level.

And that means voters aren't supposed to know.

Your job as a voter, as far as the both Republicans and Democrats are concerned, is to show up and push the right button, push the right line.

That is not the way representative democracy is supposed to work.

Now, there are upsides to that.

In New Jersey, we have a less toxic political process we do see in other places, we see that members of the state legislature, if they go too far the left or to the right, their party tends to kick 'em out.

And that's something that I called- - Hold on one second.

Is that what happened to state former, this'll air, he'll be in 2024, a former state senator, Ed Durr, truck driver Ed, who beat the Senate President Steve Sweeney in 2021, who when asked about abortion, I believe he said, and I don't think I'm paraphrasing if you, if I need to be correct, I will.

"If we want to talk about a woman not getting pregnant or preventing a pregnancy," she should quote, "keep her legs closed."

Did he actually say that, Dan?

- Yes, he did.

I think he said it before he was in office, but he certainly said it.

And what happened?

The state Republican party said, "You're the incumbent.

We're not gonna kick you off the ballot, but we're not gonna give you any money.

You're on your own.

You try and figure this out for yourself."

And, as a result, he's not in office anymore.

Sometimes even candidates that voters like, so Nia Gill, up here in North Jersey was well liked by constituents.

The Democratic Party got her out.

So she is no longer in the State House because she was upsetting the Democrats too much.

The Democrats and Republicans do everything they can to keep control, and that can be a good thing in terms of actually getting stuff done.

It's a bad thing in terms of democracy.

There's not a lot of choice.

- Before I let you go, how'd you become and why'd you become fascinated in polling?

- I'm a cognitive psychologist by training.

I study how people think about issues.

The problem is most congress psychologists just look at these sort of nebulous things.

How do you perceive color and stuff?

I actually love politics, so I wanted to look at something that has real world outcomes.

So I study how people think about politics.

There's no bigger arena to do it than with polling.

Also, we have a real world effect and that matters a lot.

- Dan Cassino is the Executive Director of the Fairleigh Dickinson University poll.

Dan, thanks for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- My pleasure.

- I'm Steve Adubado.

That's Dan Cassino.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

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Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

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The New Jersey Education Association.

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Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

New Brunswick Development Corporation.

And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

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