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Former Republican state lawmaker David Jaye is playing politics in Michigan.

He's here to discuss same.

Our lead story, a UAW strike, a huge impact on Michigan's economy.

On the panel, Chuck Stokes, Rick Pluta and Zachary Gorchow sit in with us as we get the inside out, Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Martin Waymire, a full service Strategic Communications Agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

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And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to Studio C. Off the record, the auto strike, if it does happen, is bad news, right?

Zachary Yeah, there's a lot of people holding their breath right now after the UAW president said this week he was urging all the locals and members to call strike authorization votes, which is sort of part of the process.

It doesn't mean there's going to be a strike, but this appears to be the most acrimony between the three automakers and the UAW in some time, especially when you hear about not just one company that would be a strike target, but maybe all three at.

The same time.

At the same time, you have a new president in who ran on a platform of we're going to, you know, take it to him.

We're not, you know, no more go along to get along.

And if there was a strike of all three automakers, there would be a lot of pretty serious economic consequences for the state of Michigan and even even the nation of.

Go ahead, go.

No, no, I think absolutely right.

You know, going into a big, important election year, that is not anything that we in Michigan want to see.

But it's certainly something that the White House and the Democrats don't want to see.

That would be, you know, just not good for the economic picture that they've been trying to paint, especially growing it from the middle class out.

But it's a real possibility.

You've got until September 14th.

This new president is really, you know, putting his chest out, talking tough, whether or not he can back up.

You know, we used to be on the basketball court as kids and we used to say, you know, don't sell wolf tickets that you can't cash.

Well, we were waiting to see can he cash.

These wolf tickets because he is very flamboyant about where he believes his union should be.

By the same token, he believes, look, the union has been making lots of money and they want a bigger piece of that.

They want a 40% pay raise increase and cost of living and all sorts of other things.

Patrick Anderson says the impact on the economy, about 5.6 billion and some loose change.

It would be huge.

And you know that this is happening also as the auto industry and manufacturing in general is making the transition to, you know, battery powered vehicles and, you know, all the supply chain implications that, you know, come with that as well.

And they don't want, you know, that that fewer you know, fewer workers and so therefore, fewer union members.

And so they're flexing their muscle while, you know, they have it right now.

And also, you know, because we're here to look at this through a political lens.

I mean, we're sort of seeing, you know, this as a microcosm of the Democratic coalition and the Democrats who since, you know, they're in power in Michigan, are saying, like, you know, go big, you know, stand strong versus, you know, the part of the coalition that's saying like, look, let's, you know, let's find some ways to play nice.

You know, we don't cover auto talks, but I think there is a similarity as to what is going on now in that arena and what happens almost daily in our arena, which is there's the outside game and there's the inside game.

And the rhetoric on both stages can be completely different, right?

Yeah, that that is certainly true.

You know, that being said, I think the kind of traditional Democratic leadership is taken aback a bit by the new UAW leadership president saying, you know, he really went after President Biden over some door, some right away.

Yes.

Went after them about various incentives that have been thrown around to the automakers, basically saying what some members have said for a long time, which is that, you know, yeah, we throw in with the Democrats, but they're kind of you know, they have a foot in both camps.

They want the automakers to do well.

But so they're not really going to go all in for the workers.

And so it's created this sort of interesting strain where Democrats, on the one hand, you see like people like Senator Peters this week, you know, Governor Whitmer has been choosing her words to the extent she's saying any very, very carefully.

But Senator Peters definitely said, hey, I'm all for the, you know, let's get this done.

But he also said, you know, really want this resolved without a strike.

And of course, I think the UAW wants this resolved without a strike, too.

There's pain for their members if it were to happen.

But if there were to be a strike, it really puts the Democrats on the spot, because on the one hand, while the UAW is a historic part of their coalition, you know, with organized labor, they, you know, Governor Whitmer, President Biden, they have gone to great lengths to cultivate support among the three automakers.

They want to be seen as being pro-business to an extent.

They can't have some kind of economic cataclysm on their watch.

So it's a very difficult situation for them politically.

And there seems to be a feeling among the UAW membership that they are behind this new president, that this is a time for the UAW to flex its muscle and that they haven't maybe done it in the last few negotiations.

The flipside of that, of course, is that all the corruption that they had had, they have that cloud.

And that's how the public is sort of seeing the union right now.

And the automakers are saying, look, look what you guys just got out of, you know, so don't talk so tough.

And you haven't cleaned up your own house totally yet.

Well, it does give the automakers a bit of a foothold in that.

But and this dynamic that we've been talking about is not something that's new in Michigan politics, where, you know, politicians don't really of both parties have to, you know, sort of way both sides of, you know, of of the equation.

But, you know, right now, unions are looking at incentives that have been thrown at manufacturers in Michigan and going like, okay, you know, you're you're throwing those guys something.

But, you know, what are you going to do to back us up in our demand?

Well, and then you have the bean counters in our town who have to now be sifting these numbers to see what's the impact on the lost revenue.

Let's see if the autoworkers are getting $500 in strike pay and we're normally getting a big chunk bigger than that on the sales tax and also on the income tax.

What's the impact in our town.

And how Michigan is that and how Michigan government is that that it's raining money for a while and then all of a sudden it's stopped The tsunami is over.

The oasis dries up.

All right.

Well, Bernie Porn had some numbers out this week in his poll talking about the presidential race, which is a statistical dead heat right now.

I would say it's going to be a close election if the president and former president remain in this contest.

At this read the Michigan electorate is not picking either one of them.

It's a statistical dead heat.

Pollster Bernie Porn for six news points to Mr. Biden's troubles.

It is tied because President Biden is not performing as well in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb County.

And Mr. Porn thinks maybe the president's strong push for electric vehicles, which could cost you a few members their jobs, is resulting in yet another challenge.

He is not performing as well among union members.

On the other hand, Mr. Trump is getting the Labor vote now, but he's got his own weaknesses.

He is facing state election tampering charges in Georgia and a host of charges at the federal level as well.

Independent voters are concerned about all of these lawsuits.

While Republicans are not.

That is correct.

And that is where Trump could ultimately have a problem.

The latest survey also shows Governor Gretchen Whitmer is doing quite well, well enough to be president if Mr. Biden does not run with a both a positive, favorable number and a positive job rating number, it is uncommon to have those kind of joined at the hip.

But she has the female vote and she has the female vote, and she's doing well among independent voters, which is the key.

The governor has steadfastly said she won't run for president as long as Mr. Biden is running.

She's not really addressed that other question about what if he doesbn't?

So what do you make of this thing being tied, Ricky?

I guess, you know, it raises just so many questions about how an election would play out, especially when, you know, you talk about autoworkers and union members.

Democrats win statewide races based on turnout and that means persuading the Democratic base to get out and vote.

Typically for Democrats, union members are a huge part of the Democratic base.

How do union members are going for Donald Trump?

They always have.

They always have.

There's no body count.

No surprise in these numbers to me.

Donald Trump is the great polarizer.

He has his people.

They're going to be there, ride or die with him.

And you know, Joe Biden, contrary to what a certain small group of people continue to say about why he won one, because he won swing voters in the exurbs of Oakland and Wayne Counties and around Grand Rapids.

That was these were traditional Republican voters in places like Rochester Hills, the exurbs of Grand Rapids, places that voted for John James for U.S. Senate that year, but voted for Joe Biden.

And they're no surprise.

They're not exactly jumping in to vote again for Joe Biden.

They're going to sit back and wait.

Does he have a nine point lead over Mr. Trump with those independent voters?

Chuck Yeah, he does.

The missing part of this equation is everybody's assuming that is going to be former President Trump and Biden.

And the numbers aren't.

Well, the numbers right now certainly look like they are.

But I still say there's a long road to go between now and November.

And a lot of surprises can happen.

And it just may not be Trump versus Biden.

Well and but, especially when you're talking about independent voters because because their independant that means they're the least excited voters as well.

At least about the.

Least predictable.

About particular candidates.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's call in David Jean.

David J.

Thanks for doing off the record.

Just to bring people up to speed.

You are a resident of Florida, but you spent five months back in Michigan and you're clearly back in the political game.

Right.

We've been very active in Macomb County politics, particularly.

I'm very happy with the results of our effort to stop a ten year tax and and debt increase by a money losing soccer stadium in Macomb County.

I helped Mike McDonald run for state Senate and we almost beat a smart bus tax increase.

Now I'm involved with political corruption exposing in Macomb County.

Let's talk about your political party in Michigan.

Is it in disarray or is the news media overblowing this story that the Republican Party is divided?

Well, there are some differences in ideology here.

You've got fiscal and social conservatives and then you've got some donor class Republicans.

And that's been along for a long time.

The corporate cronyism.

I'm focused mostly, though, on on issues and on candidates in the election because that's the long term movement as opposed to personality.

So, is the party divided?

Yes, yes, it is.

But we had the commonality of limited government of duty, honor, country, patriotism, individual worth, and also were aspirational to win this next election.

Mr. Stokes.

Mr. Jaye you've had the advantage of being here in Michigan, but also now being in Florida.

So you've been able to see the governor of Florida up close.

All the talk right now on the GOP side is the former President Trump versus the governor of Florida, uh, which one do you think would be the next best candidate to run up against?

Mr. Biden?

Donald Trump.

I've got his flag flying in front of my house in Michigan of of 31 years.

Absolutely.

DeSantis has done a good job in certain social areas, but he has increased triple dipping by 60% from five years to eight years.

Any public employee in Florida and politicians can collect a paycheck and a pension at the same time to do the same job.

And they don't kick in the standard 3% of their pay to the pension system.

That's increased our pension liability to $3.1 billion in the first fiscal year on top of $36 billion in outstanding obligations.

It doesn't bother you that the former president is up under multiple indictments?

If someone came to you and said, I'm interviewing you for a job and you looked on your resume and you saw that they got all these indictments, wouldn't you be concerned with you neck high?

I'm concerned.

We're about to the two two levels of justice and the two two levels of justice everything from Hunter Biden to hopefully we'll have a chance to talk about the corrupt convicted former prosecutor in Macomb County, Eric Smith.

There are two sides of justice, two types of justice, depending if you're a Democrat or Republican.

So you agree with Mr. Trump that the election was stolen?

I don't know if the election was was stolen, but certainly, as I said.

President Biden, win or not?

President Biden won, however we're aspirational that it will be a not a repeat.

Do you think the Republican Party in some ways has caught up to you or moved to where you are?

I mean, you think, like back when you were in the legislature, in many ways, you were on an island.

A lot of most of your fellow Republicans weren't always particularly thrilled with your positions and views on issues.

But now it feels like there's a lot of a lot more people in elected office as Republicans that are in your kind of same lane.

Do you do you see that or.

No.

I sure do.

Let's let's take a look at the record.

Yeah.

Can you can you believe that we don't have welfare for healthy adults in Michigan anymore?

We've got carrying a concealed pistol legislation.

We had 32 tax cuts under the Engler administration.

We capping property tax increase, the inflation rate of 5%.

And finally, after the Michigan voters, now the US Supreme Court bans minority preferences.

So people are judged on their individual merit, not their color of their skin.

Let's kind of most of that is ancient history as opposed to, you know, right now when we talk about a Republican Party in Michigan and a lot of other states, that is largely a Trump party.

And I think that's what, you know, Zach is getting to.

Is that where you were and now the Republican Party has caught up to you on those things?

I'm happy to say we were at the cutting edge.

It wasn't just me.

There were other state representatives, Roland Jersevic, Michelle McManus.

And I'm proud to say that I've been a friend of and supporter of Senator Jim Runestadt who is continuing to push on and accountability and to try to take away the pensions of the politicians and bureaucrats that got caught stealing from the taxpayer.

It's not just a felony, but we want to expand it to those that were charged with felonies and convicted of misdemeanors.

There's a woman in Michigan named Carla Wagner.

She's leading an effort called x my "MI" taxes in Michigan, trying to get it on the ballot in 2024 to cut property taxes.

Do you know her and would you support her effort and her petition drive?

I'd like to meet her.

No, I have not met her.

I've spent my entire adult life on trying to cut taxes, wasteful government spending and exposing corruption.

I was on the Macomb County Taxpayers Association Executive Board for over 25 years, very active in Florida with the Taxpayers Action Group.

We've got a website, triple dippers dot org that we're highlighting the waste in government spending.

Nobody in the private sector gets a pension and a paycheck at the same time to do the same job for five years now, eight years in Florida, to the credit of the governor in the legislature, they outlaw triple dipping at the state level, except for state police.

But they allowed localities to government like Macomb County, City of Sterling Heights and Roseville to continue with triple dipping.

It's breaking the bank.

You and the senator had a conversation yesterday about the prosecutor, former prosecutor who copped a plea with Dana Nessel and the two of you together were not very happy with Dana Nessel.

How come?

Well, Dana and that's a sweetheart deal with former prosecutor Eric Smith is such a sweetheart deal that makes one Hunter Biden's deal looks tough.

It's incredible.

Eric Smith was charged with ten felonies.

Nessel's only charged him with three.

I talked to Larry Rocca, the Republican treasurer of Macomb County, last night.

He said that Eric Smith stole $1.5 million taxpayer dollars, not the 600,000 that's been reported.

And it could even be more.

But the Treasurer could only get back eight years.

The sentencing is concurrently.

So instead of having Eric Smith go to jail or prison, is he going to serve concurrently with his other conviction, which was obstruction of justice and where is he going to be?

Not in the federal prison, but in the comfort of his almost million dollar a year home.

And he's not paying back his $123,000 DROP triple dipper pension bonus that he took as soon as he learned he was under investigation by the state police.

So if you are correct in your analysis, why did Dana Nessel do this?

There's two types of justice.

There's justice for Republicans and then there's justice for Democrats.

Imagine if there was some youngster who put a pen like yours there in his pocket, went to a 7-Eleven, pretend like he had a gun and took off with 40 bucks in the till and he got caught.

Do you think that that that he would get away with with spending his sentence in prison.

The Eric Smith was able to scam a a builder out of $25,000.

You say, oh, pretend like the money is going in my campaign account, that guy had to pay $25,000 back.

Eric Smith's only paying 25,000, of 1.5 million.

That's pennies on the dollar.

And people see who I spoke to last night.

So that money, he was back to go for criminal prosecution and victims support victims rights.

So.

Are you saying that that Eric Smith is on par with people who have, you know, contractual rights to, you know, get their their their pension and then take another job and get a paycheck.

Are those the same thing?

They're not under the DROP program, deferred retirement option program.

You file fake retirement paperwork, there's no separation employment, there's no gold watch.

But for those five years in Macomb County and eight years in Florida, in a special account, you get taxpayer money that's accruing interest.

And at the end of that five year period, Eric Smith would have gotten that whole amount of money as a lump sum and continue to get his pension.

Eric Smith cashed out their taxpayer funded account $121,000 the day after he learned the state police was investigating him and a day or two before he resigned.

Macomb County really delivered the Democrats control of the legislature for the first time in 40 years.

Two critical Senate seats, two critical state House seats.

And there's no shortage of people in both parties who would say it's because the Macomb County Republicans were holding a circular firing squad for the better part of the 2022 election cycle.

What what's your assessment of the situation there?

And what would be your advice to Republicans working to elect Republicans in Macomb County, which on paper should seem to be an easier lift given their support for President Trump there.

But in practice in the midterm, it was a disaster for them.

As Donald Trump said, there's got to be the art of the deal on right to life.

Eventually, we can get to the sanctity of life.

But until we get to that point, maybe a 12 week, 12 week ban on abortions going forward might be a middle ground.

Certainly the exceptions for the life of the mother and for rape and incest.

So instead of having the extremes which the Democrats say you can have an abortion right up until the day of birth or none at all, the art of the deal is Donald Trump would say is let's move hopefully to the sanctity of human life.

But until then, 12 weeks, six weeks would be more acceptable to folks because that really was a driving force.

So abortion would be the key to Republicans winning in Macomb County.

Okay.

I think corporate cronyism, the the the class, the the benefactor classes is another key, making sure that we end the special interest privileges.

I mean, heck, I wish Mike McDonnell would have taken up political corruption.

He didn't.

We had 14 elected officials who were convicted of corruption and they hadn't taken it up, legislate it.

And that's why I salute Senator Jim Runestadt.

To say not just a felony conviction, but a misdemeanor conviction means you're going to lose your pension and you're going to lose your health care.

Do you have any intention of ever running for political office again here or in Florida?

Not in Michigan and probably not in Florida.

Chuck, I'm 65.

I'm senior citizen.

We've got a we're suffering through a major hurricane that greatly damaged our community.

And in Bonita Springs of Florida and I'm giving back to people who are candidates because so many people help me ever since I was was a 24 year old candidate for county commissioner on.

So I'm very happy to help other individuals and and try to advance the issues of cutting taxes, holding corrupt officials accountable and reducing spending.

There's a GOP presidential debate next week.

Should Donald Trump be in it ?

Politically, I would say no, because he's so far ahead.

But I hope you'll have another issue or another event to get people to understand the issues.

I mean, look at what the Democrats have done four different four different criminal charges two tier justice system as opposed to debating Biden shutting down the drilling of oil.

As far as Biden, not not securing our border as far as a Biden allowing the Chinese to to capture so much of our infrastructure and allowing the spy baloon to go over, allowing all these illegal aliens.

So it's difficult.

I don't think he's shy.

Can he defend his record among those who want the job that he's seeking with his GOP colleagues.

He is everyday.

If he felt.

He did such a good job.

Shouldn't you be able to come to a room and be able to stand there and go toe to toe with them?

I agree.

And with you, however, there is going to be, what, six, maybe seven qualified individuals.

There'll be a couple more debates.

Don't forget that Joe Biden didn't have the third debate with President Trump.

So this is a long haul.

This is a long road between now and next April or May of 2024 and then November 24.

Just quickly, are either these two gentlemen too old to be president?

Well, I.

Why are you pausing?

Because I'm 65 years old.

You're not 70.

You're not 72.

You're not going to be 80.

I don't think it's age is as much as energy and activity and your mental acumen.

And Donald Trump has has those.

And Mr. Biden.

Well, I feel sorry for the gentleman, and I frankly believe that not only his family, but the country is not served when an individual loses his his train of thought on shaking hands with with the air.

And it's a disservice he should not run again.

Mr. Jaye, thanks for doing our program.

Gentlemen.

A pleasure to see you again.

God bless America.

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