>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": A NEW SURVEY LOOKS AT THE JAW-DROPPING NUMBER OF PEOPLE WILLING TO BELIEVE OUTLANDISH VACCINE CONSPIRACY THEORIES WHICH, NOT SURPRISINGLY, ARE HELPING DRIVE THE EPIDEMIC OF VACCINE HESITANCY.

IS THE CONDITION REVERSIBLE?

ONE OF THE LEAD RESEARCHERS JOINS ME.

PLUS, A FORMER RHODE ISLAND STATE REPRESENTATIVE, MOIRA WALSH, ON WHY SHE'S SPEAKING OUT LOUDER THAN EVER, THROUGH PODCASTING, AFTER HER OWN PARTY PRIMARIED HER OUT OF HER SEAT.

AND, FINALLY, THE GREAT LIVINGSTON TAYLOR IS BACK ON THE ROAD AND ON THIS SHOW WITH SOME STORIES AND, OF COURSE, A SONG OR TWO.

♪♪ >> Braude: BEFORE WE BEGIN, A FEW UPDATES ON TWO IMPORTANT STORIES WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING, STARTING WITH A BIG CONGRATULATIONS TO THE U.S. SENATE FOR FINALLY PASSING A BIPARTISAN, NO-BRAINER INFRASTRUCTURE BILL AFTER ONLY FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS OF DEBATE, WHICH AIMS TO PUT MONEY TOWARD REPAIRING AGING ROADS, BRIDGES, AND RAILWAYS, MODERNIZING THE NATION'S POWER GRID, EXPANDING BROADBAND ACCESS, MAKING SURE OUR WATER AND WASTEWATER INFRASTRUCTURE IS CLEAN AND SAFE, AND MORE.

NOW IT'S IN THE HANDS OF THE HOUSE.

AND THE OTHER UPDATE IS ABOUT THE SOON TO BE FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK, ANDREW CUOMO, WHO ANNOUNCED THIS AFTERNOON THAT HE'LL RESIGN IN TWO WEEKS IN RESPONSE TO THE STATE A.G. REPORT THAT FOUND HE SEXUALLY HARASSED 11 WOMEN, ASSAULTING TWO.

BUT BEFORE HE MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT MANY ARGUE CAME FAR TOO LATE, CUOMO GAVE US ONE LAST MASTER CLASS IN THE ART OF HOW NOT TO RESPOND TO CREDIBLE ACCUSATIONS LIKE THESE.

>> THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALLEGED IMPROPER CONDUCT AND CONCLUDING SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

NOW, DON'T GET ME WRONG, THIS IS NOT TO SAY THERE AREN'T 11 WOMEN I TRULY OFFENDED.

THERE ARE.

FOR THAT, I DEEPLY, DEEPLY APOLOGIZE.

I THOUGHT A HUG AND PUTTING MY ARM AROUND A STAFF PERSON WHILE TAKING A PICTURE WAS FRIENDLY, BUT SHE FOUND IT TO BE TOO FORWARD.

I KISSED A WOMAN ON THE CHEEK AT A WEDDING AND THOUGHT I WAS BEING NICE, BUT SHE FELT THAT IT WAS TOO AGGRESSIVE.

I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS.

"NEW YORK TOUGH" MEANS "NEW YORK LOVING," AND I LOVE NEW YORK, AND I LOVE YOU.

AND EVERYTHING I HAVE EVER DONE HAS BEEN MOTIVATED BY THAT LOVE.

>> Braude: I'LL LET YOU DECIDE YOURSELF WHETHER THAT WAS TAKING FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS, BUT, FOR THE RECORD, MY VOTE IS NO.

ELSEWHERE, HOSPITALS IN COVID HOTSPOTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE ONCE AGAIN REACHING CAPACITY WITH MORE THAN 120,000 NEW CASES A DAY ON AVERAGE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THAT'S THE HIGHEST RATE SINCE BEFORE VACCINES WERE WIDELY AVAILABLE IN FEBRUARY.

AND, NO SURPRISE, THE AREAS HAVING THE MOST TROUBLE ARE ALSO THE AREAS WITH THE LOWEST VACCINATION RATES.

BUT IF YOU THINK ALL OF THE UNVACCINATED COMING DOWN WITH COVID ARE LEARNING THEIR LESSONS, THINK AGAIN, AS THIS MAN PROVED WHEN HE RECENTLY SPOKE TO CBS NEWS.

>> HERE I AM RECOVERING, FINALLY GOING TO GET OUT OF HERE TOMORROW.

AM I GOING TO GET THE VACCINE?

NO.

>> WHY NOT?

>> BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MANY ISSUES WITH THESE VACCINES.

>> Braude: AGAIN, THE SHOTS ARE OVERWHELMING SAFE AND EFFECTIVE AT PREVENTING THE KIND OF SYMPTOMS THAT MAN SUFFERED, BUT WIDESPREAD CONSPIRACY THEORIES -- MANY DRIVEN BY LEADERS OF THE FAR RIGHT -- JUST KEEP FUELING THE HESITANCY.

>> YOU LUCKY PEOPLE HERE IN ALABAMA MIGHT GET A KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR BECAUSE I HEAR ALABAMA MIGHT BE ONE OF THE MOST UNVACCINATED STATES IN THE NATION.

>> Braude: JUST TODAY, TWITTER SUSPENDED MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE'S ACCOUNT AGAIN -- THIS TIME FOR A WEEK -- AFTER SHE TWEETED THE F.D.A.

SHOULD NOT APPROVE COVID VACCINES, WHICH SHE CLAIMED ARE FAILING.

AND A NEW SURVEY FINDS THAT'S FAR FROM THE ONLY LIE PEOPLE BELIEVE.

RESEARCHERS WITH THE COVID STATES PROJECT ASKED 20,000 PEOPLE ACROSS THE NATION ABOUT WHETHER THEY BELIEVE FOUR DEBUNKED CLAIMS ABOUT COVID VACCINES, THAT THE SHOTS ALTER D.N.A., IMPLANT TRACKABLE MICROCHIPS, CAUSE INFERTILITY, OR CONTAIN TISSUE FROM ABORTED FETUSES.

AND THE RESULTS?

20% SAID THEY BELIEVE AT LEAST ONE OF THE CLAIMS, AND MORE THAN HALF WEREN'T CERTAIN ABOUT ONE OR MORE -- BAD NEWS IN AND OF ITSELF, BUT EVEN WORSE NEWS WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES.

HERE TO DESCRIBE THEM IS ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATORS BEHIND THIS EFFORT.

DAVID LAZER IS A PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND COMPUTER SCIENCES AT NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY AND CO-DIRECTOR OF THE N.U.

LAB FOR TEXTS, MAPS, AND NETWORKS.

>> Braude: DAVID LAZER, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: SO THE NUMBERS THEMSELVES ARE UPSETTING.

BUT ARE THEY ANY WORSE IN TERMS OF MISINFORMATION BUY-IN THAN THE PUBLIC IS ON ALMOST ANY HIGH-PROFILE, CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC?

>> UM, IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THEY.

LET'S SAY IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, WE MIGHT IMAGINE THAT THERE WOULD BE SIMILAR NUMBERS.

THE REASON WHY IS CONSEQUENTIAL, THOUGH, IS BECAUSE WE'RE DEPENDING SO MUCH ON THE DECISIONS OF INDIVIDUALS TO GET VACCINATED OR NOT.

AND SO BEING MISINFORMED AND MAKING THE WRONG DECISION IS VERY CONSEQUENTIAL FOR THE INDIVIDUAL AND FOR SOCIETY.

>> Braude: I MENTIONED CONSEQUENCES, BEING MISINFORMED, AND MAKING THE WRONG DECISION, YOU MAKE A CAUSAL CONNECTION IN YOUR SURVEY, DO YOU NOT?

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>> CERTAINLY WE FIND A STRONG ASSOCIATION BETWEEN BEING MISINFORMED AND NOT BEING VACCINATED.

AND FOR THAT MATTER, EVEN BEING UNCERTAIN MAKES YOU LESS LIKELY TO BE -- OR IS ASSOCIATED WITH BEING LESS LIKELY TO BE VACCINATED.

YOU KNOW, IT IS HARD TO SAY IN TERMS OF THE CAUSAL LINK, JUST HOW MUCH OF THIS IS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY BELIEFS VERSUS PEOPLE WHO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE SHOTS FOR WHATEVER REASON COMING UP WITH RATIONALIZATIONS.

>> Braude: I ASSUME IT IS SAFE TO ASSUME, IF WHAT YOU SAY THERE IS TRUE, AT LEAST IN ASSOCIATION, IF YOU ARE WEDDED TO THE FACTS ABOUT VACCINES, YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY MORE LIKELY TO GET VACCINATED, CORRECT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

PEOPLE WHO CORRECTLY ANSWERED ALL FOUR QUESTIONS WERE VASTLY MORE LIKELY TO BE VACCINATED.

>> Braude: WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE, BY THE WAY?

YOU KNOW THAT, DO YOU NOT?

WHO ARE THE CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE WHO BUY IN TO THE MISINFORMATION, FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY DO?

>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DEMOGRAPHICS THAT REALLY POP OUT.

I THINK THAT WE SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHITE RESPONDENTS ARE MORE LIKELY, THE MIDDLE-AGED RESPONDENTS -- INTERESTING, WE SEE REPEATEDLY THROUGH OUR SURVEY THAT YOUNGER WOMEN, ESPECIALLY YOUNGER MOTHERS, ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE VACCINE-RESISTANT AND ALSO TO BELIEVE THE VACCINE MISINFORMATION, AND, INDEED, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SEE REALLY POP OUT AMONG THE FOUR TYPES OF MISINFORMATION THAT WE LOOK AT IS THE FERTILITY, THE MISINFORMATION REGARDING FERTILITY, ASSOCIATED WITH LOWER LIKELIHOOD OF BEING VACCINATED.

>> Braude: ONE OF YOUR CONSORTIUM ALSO IDENTIFIED THE SOURCES MOST LIKELY TO PROVIDE THE MISINFORMATION.

WE KNOW THAT JOE BIDEN A FEW WEEKS AGO SAID Facebook IS KILLING PEOPLE.

THE NEXT DAY HE DREW BACK A LITTLE BIT.

BUT YOUR RESEARCH SUGGESTS Facebook IS KILLING PEOPLE.

THEY'RE THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF THE MISINFORMATION, WHICH YOU MAY NOT WANT TO SAY THAT, BUT THE MISINFORMATION, IF IT LEADS TO VACCINE HESITANCY, IS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO LEAD TO MORE CASUALTIES.

>> CERTAINLY WE FIND THAT PEOPLE WHO RELY MORE ON Facebook, AS COMPARED TO OTHER SOURCES, ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE VACCINE VACCINE-RESISTANT AND MORE LIKELY TO BELIEVE THESE MISBELIEFS.

>> Braude: SO CAN I DRAW THE CONCLUSION THAT UNDERSTANDING AND BELIEVING THE FACTS ABOUT THE VACCINE ARE AT LEAST ONE PATH TO HERD IMMUNITY?

THAT IS IMPLICIT AT LEAST IN YOUR RESEARCH, IS IT NOT?

>> YEAH.

I CERTAINLY -- IT WOULD CERTAINLY BE CONSISTENT WITH OUR FINDINGS THAT IF MORE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE VACCINES WERE SAFE, THAT THEY WOULD MORE LIKELY POTENTIALLY PROTECT THEIR LIVES AND THAT WOULD YIELD HIGHER VACCINATION RATES, AND LEAD TO GREATER PROTECTION FOR THE OVERALL POPULATION.

>> Braude: THIS MAY NOT BE YOUR AREA OF EXPERTISE, BUT OBVIOUSLY, THEN, IF WE DISABUSE THEM OF THEIR DISBELIEF, THEY WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO GET VACCINATED.

IS THAT DOABLE?

WE WERE DISCUSSING ON THIS SHOW A PROFESSOR FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA, A PSYCHOLOGIST WHO HAS A BOOK COMING OUT "CREATING CONSPIRACY BELIEFS: HOW OUR THOUGHTS ARE SHAPED," AND HE SAYS WHEN YOU GET PEOPLE WHO ARE DUG IN WITH THEIR BELIEFS, WHO HAPPEN TO BE WRONG, THE MORE YOU TRY TO CONVINCE THEM OF WHAT IS RIGHT, THE DEEPER THEY DIG IN.

IS THAT ANY EVIDENCE THAT THAT SAME UNFORTUNATE OUTCOME WOULD HOLD HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE DONE SOME EXPERIMENTS ON THIS IN TERMS OF TRYING TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED.

AND THE ANSWER IS: IT IS A LITTLE COMPLICATED.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO IS THE MESSENGER IS AND WHAT THE MESSENGER IS MATTERS.

>> Braude: WHO IS THE BEST MESSENGER?

>> THE BEST MESSENGERS ARE PEOPLE'S OWN DOCTORS, ACTUALLY.

IF I WERE MADE KING FOR A DAY, I WOULD SAY EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A FREE VISIT TO THEIR DOCTOR TO DISCUSS GETTING VACCINATED BECAUSE IT'S THAT KIND OF TRUSTED MESSENGER -- PEOPLE, WHO DO YOU TRUST WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE?

IT IS YOUR DOCTOR.

BUT IT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LESS ACCESS TO MEDICINE, DOCTORS, WHO ARE MORE VACCINATION RESISTANT.

>> Braude: THAT IS TRUE, UNLESS YOUR DOCTOR IS DR. RAND PAUL.

HAVE YOU SEEN ACTUAL EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE, NOT THOSE WHO ARE DRIVEN BY TRUMPISM, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION, BUT WHO JUST MISUNDERSTAND THE FACTS, WHO WHEN FED THE FACTS DO FLIP THEIR POSITIONS?

>> IT IS REALLY HARD TO COME UP WITH EVIDENCE FOR THAT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU, LIKE, HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU PERSUADE PEOPLE OF WHAT THE TRUTH IS, RIGHT?

FOR THEIR TRUTH IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM LIKE BELIEVE.

>> Braude: DAVID LAZER, REALLY IMPORTANT RESEARCH.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING WITH US AND TALKING WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOUR BIG DREAMS OF CHANGING THE SYSTEM FROM THE INSIDE COME CRASHING DOWN AFTER YOUR OWN LEADERSHIP PRIMARIES YOU RIGHT OUT OF YOUR SEAT FOR BEING TOO OUTSPOKEN?

WELL, FORMER RHODE ISLAND STATE REPRESENTATIVE MOIRA WALSH OPTED TO SPEAK OUT EVEN LOUDER WITH A NO-HOLDS-BARRED PODCAST CALLED "WE CAN FIX IT."

WALSH CO-HOSTS THE SHOW WITH TWO-TIME STATE SENATE CANDIDATE JENNIFER DOUGLAS, AND TOGETHER THE PAIR HAS TACKLED TOPICS FROM SYSTEMIC RACISM TO LAWMAKERS' TWITTER SPATS, WITH EPISODE TITLES LIKE "MEDIOCRE WHITE MEN" -- NO, I DON'T TAKE OFFENSE -- AND "YOUR GARBAGE LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR RESUMES."

AS SHE RECENTLY TOLD "THE BOSTON GLOBE," EVERYBODY IS FAIR GAME.

MOIRA WALSH JOINS ME NOW.

>> Braude: MOIRA, IT IS GOOD TO MEET YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

THIS, I WILL SAY, IS PROBABLY THE PROUDEST CALL I GOT FROM MY FATHER.

HE IS A HUGE FAN.

>> Braude: THAT IS SO NICE TO HEAR.

BEFORE WE GET TO YOU, WHAT DID YOU THINK OF CUOMO'S ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY?

>> I THINK IT WAS LONG OVERDUE, AND I THINK IT SPOKE TO THE LEVEL OF NARCISSISM AND EGO ON THAT MAN THAT IT TOOK HIM THIS LONG TO BE CONVINCED.

I WISH HE MIGHT HAVE DONE IT BEFORE HE CAME OUT WITH, LIKE, THE POWER POINT SLIDE SHOW OF HIM BEING AN EQUAL-OPPORTUNITY HARASSER.

I DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS MAYBE THE BEST DEFENSE.

>> Braude: LAST NIGHT I'M WATCHING A DOCUMENTARY ON CNN.

IT IS ABOUT A WOMAN IN HER LATE 20s, WHO WORKS IN A RESTAURANT.

SHE IS PROGRESSIVE.

SHE DECIDES TO GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS, HER FIRST FORAY, AND BEATS A VETERAN LEGISLATOR.

IT WAS ABOUT ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ.

AND I'M WATCHING IT, KNOWING YOU'RE ON TONIGHT, AND I'M SAYING THIS WOMAN, MEANING YOU, IS ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PARALLELS, NO?

>> YES.

AND I'VE GOTTEN THAT BEFORE, AND I'M DEEPLY HONORED BY THE COMPARISON.

I THINK THAT SHE IS AN ABSOLUTE FIRECRACKER AND IS DOING SOME REALLY IMPRESSIVE WORK UP THERE.

>> Braude: VOTERS EMBRACED YOU IN YOUR FIRST CAMPAIGN.

THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF YOUR OWN PARTY, NOT SO MUCH.

WAS THE BREAKDOWN RIGHT AWAY ABOUT YOUR HONEST COMMENTS, ABOUT HOW THERE WERE CABINETS FILLED WITH BOOZE AND INSANE AMOUNTS OF DRINKING WAS GOING ON IN THE LEGISLATURE -- WAS IT MOR ORE OR JUST THAT, MOIRA?

>> IT WAS A VERY SLOW BURN.

IT STARTED WITH OUR VERY FIRST MEETING, WHERE AFTER I HAD WON MY RACE WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM THE SPEAKER, HE WANTED ME TO THANK HIM.

AND I SAID, I'M NOT GOING TO THANK YOU, YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR ME.

AND I HAD ALREADY BROKEN ONE OF THE UNSPOKEN RULES, WHICH IS THAT THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IS NEVER WRONG.

THAT WAS KIND OF THE BEGINNING OF MY TRAJECTORY, THAT I KEPT ACCIDENTALLY BREAKING RULES.

THE FIRST TIME I VOTED NO ON A BILKS BILL, I GOT A TEXT FROM A COLLEAGUE THAT YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE.

I THOUGHT I WAS SUPPOSED TO LISTEN TO THE BILL AND VOTE ON THAT.

ONCE I REALIZED I WAS BREAKING ALL OF THESE UNSPOKEN RULES, AND I WAS ALREADY PRETTY MUCH PERMANENTLY IN THE TIME-OUT CORNER, I WILL ADMIT TO BREAKING MAYBE A FEW MORE RULES.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THE TIME, YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO THE CRIME.

[LAUGHTER] >> Braude: DO YOU REGRET ANY OF THIS?

HE RAN SOMEBODY AGAINST YOU IN A PRIMARY.

THAT PERSON LOST THE FIRST TIME, AND YOU LOST TO THAT PERSON.

ANY REGRETS ABOUT YOUR CANDOR, OR NO?

>> NOT AT ALL.

THERE WERE TWO SEPARATE PRIMARY OPPONENTS.

THE FIRST ONE WAS LIKE A TRUMP-VOTING REPUBLICAN.

AND MY CAMPAIGN STAFF WORKED TIRELESSLY AND WE BLEW THEM OUT OF THE WATER.

THE SECOND TIME WAS LIKE A REALLY INVESTED COMMUNITY MEMBER.

AND I REMEMBER LOOKING AT MY CAMPAIGN MANAGER WHEN HE ANNOUNCED AND SAYING, LIKE, IT HAS BEEN FUN.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO BEAT NATHAN BEA.

HE IS ALSO THE FIRST PERSON OF COLOR TO REPRESENT OUR DISTRICT, WHICH WAS 70% NON-WHITE.

SO I HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME BEING BUMMED ABOUT THAT.

AND IT LED ME TO ARGUABLY THE BEST JOB I HAVE EVER HAD, WHICH IS TO GET PAID MAKING FUN OF THESE PEOPLE, WHICH I'D ALREADY BEEN DOING.

>> Braude: YOU'VE BEEN INSIDE THE SYSTEM HONEST AND CRITICAL, AND YOU'RE NOW OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM HONEST AND CRITICAL, AND IS THERE A BETTER FORUM FOR FORCING CHANGE, IN YOUR ESTIMATION?

>> WITH SOME POLITICIANS, YEAH.

SOME POLITICIANS ACTUALLY DO CARE ABOUT THE MEDIA ATTENTION, ABOUT WHAT THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE SERVING WANT.

THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP IN RHODE ISLAND SEEMS TO BE OF THAT MINDSET, A LOT MORE THAN THE PREVIOUS LEADERSHIP.

THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER WAS LITERALLY SHAMELESS.

YOU COULD WRITE AS MANY TERRIBLE STORIES ABOUT HIM AS YOU WANTED TO, AND IT DIDN'T MATTER TO HIM.

THAT'S NOT WHY HE WAS THERE.

I WILL SAY, WE JOKE AROUND, BUT WE HAVE AFFECTED CHANGE BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY THAT A LOT OF THIS NEFARIOUS BILLS GET PASSED IS WHEN PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.

AND SO JUST BY SHINING A LOT ON SOME OF THESE CRAZY AND OUTLANDISH IDEAS, TABLED THEM FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY THEY GET THOSE THINGS PASSED IS WHEN THE PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW.

>> Braude: I SHOULD HAVE SAID -- YOU REMINDED ME A SECOND AGO THAT PEOPLE KNOW THAT KARMA IS THE YOU KNOW WHAT, AND THE SPEAKER WHO CHALLENGED YOU TWICE LOST HIS CAMPAIGN.

IS THERE ANOTHER RUN IN YOU, OR DO YOU LIKE BEING SITUATED WHERE YOU ARE?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE QUITE AS BOMBASTIC IF I WERE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL AGAIN.

IT IS VERY NICE TO BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING WITHOUT FEAR OF, YOU KNOW, MY BILLS GETTING THROWN IN THE TRASH CAN OR MY OFFICE BEING MOVED TO TIMBUKTU.

BUT NEVER SAY NEVER.

IT IS ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

I JUST THINK FOR RIGHT NOW I'M EXACTLY WHERE I NEED TO BE.

AND IF WE EVEN CONVINCE ONE LOCAL PERSON TO START REALLY PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE CITY AND STATE LEVEL, THEN I'LL CONSIDER IT A GREAT SUCCESS.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, I'VE LISTENED TO YOUR PODCAST.

I RECOMMEND IT.

MOIRA WALSH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

AND SAY HI TO YOUR FATHER FOR ME, PLEASE.

>> OKAY.

WILL DO.

>> Braude: AFTER THE LONGEST HIATUS FROM LIVE SHOWS SINCE LIVINGSTON TAYLOR FIRST LAUNCHED HIS MUSIC CAREER MORE THAN FIVE DECADES AGO -- THUS 2019'S "THE BEST OF LIV: 50 YEARS OF LIVINGSTON TAYLOR LIVE" -- HE'S BEEN SPENDING THE SUMMER MAKING UP FOR LOST TIME.

AMONG HIS PERFORMANCES, HE'LL BE BACK AT CITY WINERY IN BOSTON THIS THURSDAY, AND HE'S PLAYING TWO SHOWS IN OAK BLUFFS LATER THIS MONTH.

LIVINGSTON TAYLOR JOINS ME NOW.

>> Braude: I'VE REALLY MISSED YOU, LIVINGSTON.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> JIM, THE FEELING IS MUTUAL AND IT IS SO GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, EVEN IF BY ZOOM.

CAN'T WAIT UNTIL WE'RE BACK TOGETHER IN THE SAME SPACE.

>> Braude: WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING FOR 16 MONTHS?

>> WELL, I HAVE A LITTLE SHOW CALLED "THE LIVINGSTON TAYLOR SHOW."

I DID WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE DID DURING THIS TIME: I LAID ON THE COUCH A LOT AND WATCHED NETFLIX.

[LAUGHTER] >> I LOVED IT WHEN PEOPLE WOULD SAY TO ME, HAVE YOU BEEN WRITING?

NO!

NO!

I WRITE BECAUSE I THINK ABOUT MY AUDIENCE AND I THINK ABOUT GOING OUT AND PLAYING THIS STUFF FOR THEM.

NOW, I JUST WROTE A -- WHEN I GOT BACK TO THEM, THEN I STARTED WRITING AGAIN.

>> Braude: WHEN YOU DID YOUR FIRST LIVE THING, WITH ACTUAL HUMAN BEINGS PHYSICALLY IN FRONT OF YOU -- I'M SERIOUS -- WHAT WAS IT LIKE DURING THIS LONG PERIOD OF TIME?

I GUESS THAT WAS MY ANSWER.

>> BY THE WAY, IT MAKES ME CRY TO THINK ABOUT IT.

I JUST MISSED THEM SO MUCH.

AND I NEEDED TO BE WITH THEM SO BADLY.

AND WHEN I SAW MY BEAUTIFUL AUDIENCE AGAIN, I SIMPLY FREAKED OUT.

IT WAS AS THOUGH THIS GREAT WEIGHT HAD BEEN LIFTED FROM ME.

GOD, IT WAS PLEASANT!

>> Braude: IS IT LIKE RIDING A BIKE?

WHAT WAS IT LIKE?

>> WHAT WAS INTERESTING IS I HAD DONE THIS "LIVINGSTON TAYLOR SHOW" EVERY WEEK, WHICH IS JUST LIKE THIS, ON A CAMERA, AND LIVE.

YOU'RE JUST BIGGER THAN LIFE.

BUT ON CAMERA IT IS SORT OF HI, IT'S SO GOOD TO SEE YOU.

IT WAS THAT MR. ROGERS KIND OF VIBE.

[LAUGHTER] >> AND SO I WAS DOING A SHOW, AND MY WIFE GAIL SAID, LIVINGSTON, YOU'VE GOT TO PICK THIS UP A LITTLE BIT.

[LAUGHTER] >> YOU'VE GOT TO FIND THE CORNERS OF THIS ROOM.

SO I'M BACK TO MY USUAL AMPED-UP SELF.

>> Braude: LIVINGSTON, I WAS LOOKING AT THE CITY WINERY WEBSITE, WHERE YOU ARE ON THURSDAY, AND THEY'RE ONE OF THE PLACES -- AND I LOVE THIS -- YOU'RE EITHER VAXXED OR YOU NEED A TEST WITHIN A CERTAIN NUMBER OF DAYS.

ARE YOU ALL CONCERNED BEING OUT IN THE WORLD PERFORMING IN SETTINGS WHERE PEOPLE AREN'T?

>> WE GOT VACCINATED SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS.

WE GOT VACCINATED SO WE WOULD VASTLY IMPROVE OUR ODDS OF NOT BEING ILL, DESPERATELY ILL, FROM COVID.

IT IS NOT TO SAY THAT IT WON'T HAPPEN.

IT IS LIKE PUTTING ON A SAFETY BELT IN YOUR FRIGGIN' CAR.

YOU PUT IT ON BECAUSE STATISTICALLY YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET AS INJURED WITH IT ON AS WITH IT OFF.

I'VE DEVELOPED THIS SYNDROME WHERE I PERIODICALLY THROUGH THE DAY I'LL JUST, OUT OF NOWHERE GO, WHO DOESN'T GET VAXXED?

WHO DOESN'T DO THIS?

THEN I CALM DOWN.

>> Braude: I THINK ANTHONY FAUCI SHOULD TRY THAT SAME APPROACH.

>> WHO DOESN'T GET VAXXED?

>> Braude: CAN YOU GIVE ME, LIKE, 30 SECONDS TO GET ME IN THE MOOD, LIVINGSTON TAYLOR.

>> SURE.

♪ I'M IN, I'M ON ♪ ♪ I'M GOOD ♪ ♪ AIN'T SCARED ABOUT THE DEVIL ♪ ♪ I'VE GOT NOTHING BOTTLED INSIDE ♪ ♪ IT'S STILL A HELL OF A RIDE ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> AND THE SOPPING GOES SONG GOES ON LIKE THAT.

>> Braude: ARE YOU DIFFERENT AS A PERFORMER IN ANY WAY AFTER 16 MONTHS OF THIS NIGHTMARE, OR ARE YOU THE SAME GUY AS BEFORE?

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I'M 16 MONTHS OLDER, SO I WENT INTO THIS PANDEMIC AS A 69-YEAR-OLD, AND I CAME OUT OF IT AS A 70 70-YEAR-OLD.

AND IN THAT PASSAGE OF TIME, IT IS ALWAYS DIFFICULT TO KNOW AT THIS AGE SORT OF WHAT IS AGE-RELATED AND WHAT IS TIME-RELATED.

WHAT'S GOING TO COME BACK?

WHAT IS LEAVING PERMANENTLY?

IT IS AN INTERESTING UNCERTAINTY, THE UNCERTAINTY OF ADVANCING AGE.

OF COURSE, WHAT SURPLANTS IT IS THE TOTAL JOY OF DOING A SELF-CHECK AND GOING, WAIT A MINUTE, I'M REALLY WELL.

SWEET!

SO THERE IS A COMPELLING GRATITUDE -- >> Braude: TRUST ME, AGING IS BETTER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE -- >> THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY.

>> Braude: ONE OF THE CRUEL IRONIES -- ONE OF THE MANY CRUEL IRONIES OF THIS WHOLE THING, AS A CONSUMER OF WHAT YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU DO, I FELT THAT PARTICULAR LIVE MUSIC WAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT WAYS TO GET THROUGH DIFFICULT TIMES AND WE WERE DENIED THAT.

NOW THAT WE'RE HOPEFULLY AT A POINT WHERE WE WOULDN'T BE DENIED IT MUCH LONGER, DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU DO, AND ARE GOING TO BE DOING, AS AN IMPORTANT WAY TO HELP TRANSITION US OUT OF THE PAIN THAT SO MANY HAVE EXPERIENCED FOR SO LONG?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THE OTHER THING THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT HERE, IN MY OPINION, IS THAT THE NEED OF SOCIETY IS TO GET TOGETHER IN LARGE GROUPS, WHICH IS REALLY CRUCIAL.

IT SEEMS TO ME WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT AS HOMOSAPIENS LITERALLY SINCE THE DAWN OF CIVILIZATION.

AND WHEN YOU TAKE PEOPLE AND DON'T LET THEM GET TOGETHER IN LARGE GROUPS AND DISCOVER WHERE NORMAL LIVES, THEY JUST GO BAT-ASS CRAZY.

AND SO WE NEED TO BE GETTING BACK TOGETHER TO RECENTER OURSELVES.

>> Braude: LIVINGSTON TAYLOR, IT IS GREAT TO SEE YOU LONG DISTANCE, AND I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE YOU IN PERSON.

YOU'RE GOING TO PLAY A LITTLE MORE IN A MINUTE.

BE WELL.

>> I WILL.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, JIM.

ALWAYS A JOY TO WATCH YOU AND TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Braude: GREAT TO SEE YOU, TOO, LIVINGSTON.

>> Braude: ONCE AGAIN, YOU CAN CATCH LIVINGSTON TAYLOR LIVE THIS THURSDAY, AUGUST 12, AT CITY WINERY IN BOSTON, OR AUGUST 28 AT ONE OF HIS TWO SHOWS AT THE LOFT IN OAK BLUFFS.

TICKETS ARE AVAILABLE ON HIS WEBSITE, www.livingstonTaylor.com, WHERE YOU CAN ALSO FIND A LINK TO HIS ONGOING "THE LIVINGSTON TAYLOR SHOW" LIVE STREAMS ON PATREON.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

I'LL TALK TO A LOCAL DOCTOR FIGHTING FOR STRONGER ETHICS RULES TO KEEP HOSPITAL EXECUTIVES FROM TAKING MILLIONS TO SIT ON CORPORATE BOARDS, OFTEN FOR BIG PHARMA, A PROBLEM HIGHLIGHTED BY "THE BOSTON GLOBE."

PLUS, MAKEEBA McCREARY, JUST APPOINTED THE FIRST-EVER PRESIDENT OF THE NEW COMMONWEALTH RACIAL EQUITY AND SOCIAL JUSTICE FUND.

AND THAT MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

AND, AS PROMISED,WE'LL LEAVE YOU NOW WITH A LITTLE MORE FROM LIVINGSTON TAYLOR.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ LET'S GO BY ♪ ♪ I'VE LEARNED HOW ♪ ♪ PICK UP YOUR FEET, AND WOW, WE'RE HEADED... ♪ ♪ AND THAT SPECIAL PLACE WE TRIED TO FIND IS SOMEHOW OH, SO NEAR ♪ ♪ WHAT A WAY TO BE WITH YOU ♪ ♪ HAND-IN-HAND ABOVE THE CLOUDS ♪ ♪ I HAVE LOVED YOU QUITE FOREVER ♪ ♪ NOW I'M SAYING IT QUITE OUT LOUD ♪ ♪ WHAT A KICK TO OPEN OUR EYES AND WATCH THE WORLD GO DRIFTING ON ♪ ♪ TICKLE MY FEET ♪ ♪ IT'S YOU ♪ ♪♪ ♪ OH, YOUR TOUCH IS MAGIC ♪ ♪ OH, YOUR VOICE IS MUSIC ♪ ♪ YOUR EASY SMILE REMINDS ME I'M OKAY ♪ ♪ AND YOUR EYES ARE CLEAR AND BRIGHT ♪ ♪ FILLED WITH JOY AND LIGHT ♪ ♪ AND I CANNOT WAIT TO KNOW WHERE OUR LOVE WILL GO ♪ ♪ TODAY ♪ ♪♪ ♪ OUTERSPACE, OH, THAT WILL BE FINE ♪ ♪ WELL PICK IT RIGHT UP TO THE SPEED OF LIGHT ♪ ♪ AND GO BACK TO THE TI