>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON:" THE CLOCK IS TICKING IN AFGHANISTAN, AS U.S.

FORCES TRY TO EVACUATE AMERICANS AND AFGHAN ALLIES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, HE WITH SAFETY ASSURANCES FROM THE TALIBAN RINGING HOLLOW ACROSS THE REGION AND AROUND THE WORLD.

RETIRED ARMY COLONEL AND HISTORIAN ANDREW BACEVICH JOINS ME ON HOW WE GOT HERE HOW WE'RE GETTING OUT, AND WHETHER WE WILL EVER LEARN FROM OUR FOREIGN FAILURES.

THEN LATER, THE GROWING CRISIS IN HAITI-- AS TROPICAL STORM GRACE PUMMELS THE ISLAND, STILL RECOVERING FROM A DEADLY EARTHQUAKE-- WITH THE FIRST STATE SENATOR OF HAITIAN DESCENT, LINDA DORCENA FORRY, AND THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HAITI DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTE, PIERRE NOEL.

AND FINALLY, THE BOSTON FARM, STEPPING UP TO FEED A COMMUNITY HIT HARD BY THE PANDEMIC.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Braude: TALIBAN LEADERS ARE PROMISING, THIS TIME, THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT IN AFGHANISTAN.

THEY SAY WOMEN'S RIGHTS WILL BE PROTECTED, AND AMERICANS AND THEIR ALLIES WILL NOT BE KILLED.

BUT, THE VAGUE PROMISES AREN'T CONVINCING MANY, INSIDE, OR OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY.

AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT CHANGING ANY PLANS FOR THE U.S. MILITARY.

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.

WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO LITERALLY MOVE THOUSANDS PER DAY.

ANY ATTACK ON OUR PEOPLE OR ON OUR OPERATIONS AT THE AIRPORT WILL BE MET WITH A SWIFT AND FORCEFUL UNAMBIGUOUS RESPONSE.

>> Braude: THERE ARE, OF COURSE, THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VULNERABLE AFGHANS FEARING FOR THEIR LIVES UNDER TALIBAN RULE.

SOME, ELIGIBLE FOR U.S.

VISAS; FAR MORE, NOT.

MANY OF THE FORMER ARE WORRIED THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO GET TO THE AIRPORT TO BOARD AMERICAN PLANES, AND MANY OF THE LATTER HAVE LITTLE HOPE AT ALL OF ESCAPING.

INCLUDING AFGHANISTAN'S YOUNGEST FEMALE MAYOR, WHO TOLD THE U.K.'S iNEWS, "I'M SITTING HERE WAITING FOR THEM TO COME.

THERE IS NO ONE TO HELP ME OR MY FAMILY.

I'M JUST SITTING WITH THEM AND MY HUSBAND.

AND THEY WILL COME FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME AND KILL ME."

BACK IN THE U.S., JOE BIDEN IS TAKING THE BRUNT OF THE BLAME FOR ALL THAT'S UNFOLDED IN RECENT DAYS, ESPECIALLY GIVEN A NEW REPORT FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT THE GRIM INTEL ASSESSMENTS THAT WERE COMING OUT OF AFGHANISTAN, AS THE PRESIDENT WAS ASSURING THE PUBLIC THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT WOULD NOT LIKELY FALL.

BUT AS BIDEN TOLD THE WORLD YESTERDAY, HE STILL BELIEVES THIS WAS THE RIGHT CALL.

>> BIDEN: TRUTH IS, THIS DID UNFOLD MORE QUICKLY THAN WE HAD ANTICIPATED.

AFTER 20 YEARS, I'VE LEARNED THE HARD WAY THAT THERE WAS NEVER A >> TIME TO WITHDRAW U.S.

FORCES.

I CANNOT AND WILL NOT ASK OUR TROOPS TO FIGHT ON ENDLESSLY IN ANOTHER COUNTRY'S CIVIL WAR.

>> Braude: I'M JOINED NOW BY RETIRED ARMY COLONEL AND B.U.

PROFESSOR EMERITUS ANDREW BACEVICH, NOW THE PRESIDENT OF THE QUINCY INSTITUTE FOR RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT.

ANDREW, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE I APPRECIATE IT.

>> HAPPY TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Braude: YOU WROTE IN A GLOBE OP ED IN PART, HOW WE LEFT WHY WE WENT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHAT WE DID AND WHY WE STAYED SO LONG.

BARB LEE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO VOTE AGAINST THE INVASION.

I'M ASSUMING YOU ARE NOT SAYING IN THAT SENSE WE SHOULDN'T SUPERDEALT WITH BIN LADEN AND, THIS NATION BUILDING IS WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE DRAWN THE LINE IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

I HAD OCCASION RECENTLY TO GO BACK AND EXAMINE THE STATEMENTS ISSUED BY THE UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES AFTER THE BONN CONFERENCE, BONN GERMANY AT THE INDEPENDENT OF 2001, LAID OUT OUR OBJECTIVES AND THEY ARE EXTRAORDINARY.

NATIONAL RECONCILIATION, SPREADING LIBERAL VALUES, PROTECTING HUMAN PRIEPTS ALL OF -- HUMAN RIGHTS, ALL OF COURSE, INCREDIBLY ADMIRABLE BUT NOT REALISTIC THEN.

BUT WE SPENT THE LAST 20 YEARS COMING TO REALIZE THOSE GOALS WERE NOT REALIZED.

THOSE GOALS WERE REALIZED AT THE OUTSET OF THIS VERY BELONG WAR.

>> Braude: WITH THE DOZENS EVER DISCUSSIONS I'VE BEEN FOSHT TO HAVE WITH YOU ANDREW, IS THAT MOST OF US OUR LEADERS DON'T LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES.

BE SECRETARY OF STATE B B BLINKEN SAID, THERE WAS NOT THE FULL OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE FALL OF SAIGON, AND WHAT WE SAW IN KABUL.

I SEE A GREAT SIMILARITY, YOU DO AS WELL, DO YOU NOT?

>> OF COURSE.

DIFFERENT KINDS OF HELICOPTERS.

THEN IT WAS HUGHIES NOW IT'S BLACK HAWKS AND CHINOOKS.

BUT THE COLLAPSE WAS AS ABRUPT, THE COLLAPSE WAS AS UNANTICIPATED BY SENIOR U.S. OFFICIALS, CERTAINLY U.S. INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES.

YOU KNOW, I -- AS I'VE BEEN WATCHING THESE EVENTS UNFOLD, I REMIND MYSELF THAT I DON'T HAVE A PERSONAL STAKE IN THIS WAR.

IN THE SAME SENSE THAT I DID IN THE VIETNAM WAR, THE IRAQ WAR.

BUT I GOT TO TELL YOU: I HAVE FELT SUCH A SENSE OF SHAME AND HUMILIATION AND EMBARRASSMENT, AND DISAPPOINTMENT, THAT THIS SHOULD HAVE -- THIS DISASTER SHOULD HAVE BEFALLEN OUR COUNTRY, YET AGAIN, AND OF COURSE, THAT THE THE AFGHAN PEOPLE ARE NOW GOING TO BE LEFT TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES.

THE WHOLE THING IS JUST SO DISHEARTENING THAT I HAVE A HARD TIME EXPRESSING MYSELF.

>> Braude: I THINK YOU'VE EXPRESSED YOUR TELEPHONE QUITE CLEARLY AND QUITE WELL.

BUT MAYBE -- YOURSELF QUITE CLEARLY AND QUITE WELL.

BUT WE HAVE APPARENTLY OWNER LEARNED NOTHING FROM THE VIETNAM EXPERIENCE.

WHY DON'T WE LEARN FROM THE LIFT OF FAILURE?

>> BIG QUESTION.

ESSENTIAL QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WRITE BOOKS ABOUT THESE THINGS.

I TEND TO THINK THAT THE ULTIMATE ANSWER GOES BACK TO, TO USE A PHRASE, IT'S BEEN IN CIRCULATION LATELY THE CONCEPT OF AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM, THAT WE ARE HARD-WIRED TO BELIEVE, WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THAT WE ARE CALLED UPON TO SAVE THE WORLD DOM SAVE HUMANITY, TO SPREAD OUR VALTS, TO BRING HISTORY TO ITS INTENDED DESTINATION.

WE ARE FED THAT LINE BY POLITICIANS, WE ARE FED THAT LINE BY PUNDITS, AND IT'S DEEPLY EMBEDDED IN OUR SENSE OF WHO WE ARE.

AND WHAT'S YOU KNOW SO DISCOURAGING IS THAT EVEN AFTER A VIETNAM, I THINK EVEN AFTER AN AFGHANISTAN, THE AMOUNT OF SERIOUS SELF-REFLECTION TENDS TO BE MINIMAL.

INCAN CONSEQUENTIAL AND WE SNATCH BACK TO THE ATTITUDES WE HAD BEFORE THE DISASTER BEFELL US.

>> Braude: I BELIEVE THAT LEADERS WILL DO WHAT WE THE PEOPLE DPORS THEM TO DO BUT WHEN YOU READ THINGS LIKE THE AFGHANISTAN PAPERS, WAPS, CRAIG WHITLOCK AND SAY THERE HAS BEEN BIPARTISAN LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ALMOST RELENTLESSLY ABOUT HOW WELL THINGS WERE GOING THE, WHAT OUR HOPES FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR EFFORT IN AFGHANISTAN WERE TO BE, HOW DO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MAKE AN INFORMED ENOUGH DECISION TO BE ABLE TO MOVE THEIR LEADERS WHEN THOSE SAME LEADERS CHOOSE TO LIE TO US ABOUT OUR PROSPECTS?

>> WELL, IT'S VERY HARD.

I THINK PERHAPS THE PLACE TO BEGIN IS TO REALIZE THAT THESE LEADERS DISSELL BL DISSEMBLE THAT THEIR PRIORITIES, THAT THEY CAN MAKE THE DECISIONS TO USE THAT PHRASE THAT IT'S BEEN USED LATELY, TO BE IN THE ROOM.

AND THAT LEADS THEM, THEN, TO LIE TO US, TO KEEP US IN THE DARK.

BECAUSE WHERE WE TO -- WERE WE TO FULLY UNDERSTAND, WERE WE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN HAS BEEN GOING OFF THE TRACKS FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS OR SO, THEN WE WOULD REFUSE TO INDULGE THEM IN THEIR EFFORTS TO EXERCISE POWER.

AND FROM THE INSIDE THAT'S VIEWED AS INTOLERABLE.

>> Braude: I WANT TO DISCUSS CURRENT EVENTS FOR ONE MORE MINUTE AND THEN STEP BACK AND GET A LONGER VIEW IF I CAN ANDREW.

JOE BIDEN SAID THE BUCK STOPS WITH ME AND THEN IT DIDN'T.

WHEN I HEARD HIM YESTERDAY TALKING ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT US TO WITHDRAW, FROM AFGHANISTAN, MY RESPONSE TO THAT WAS THE SAME AS I HAD TO GEORGE ZIMMERMAN W. BUSH WHEN HE USED TO SAY ALL THE TIME FOR THOSE WHO SAY WE SHOULD CUT AND RUN FROM IRAQ, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO SAID WE SHOULD CUT AND RUN, NOR DID I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT WE SHOULD NOT WITHDRAW FROM AFGHANISTAN.

RATHER IT WAS THE EXIT STRATEGY ANDEVEN THOUGH I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO OBSESS ON THAT BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THE LARGER ISSUE WAS THE SUCCESSION OF PRESIDENTS AND A SUCCESSION OF DECISIONS THROUGH SO MANY YEARS, HOW COULD A GUY WITH SO MANY FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE BE TO WRONG ON SOMETHING SO IMPORTANT ?

>> WELT IT WOULD APPEAR THAT HE WAS FED WILD REPLIED -- WELL IT WOULD APPEAR THAT HE WAS FED THE WILDLY MISLEADING INTELLIGENCE REPORTS.

YOU MIGHT SAY AND I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD POINT WELL HOW COULD SOMEBODY AS EXPERIENCED AS BIDEN AND BASICALLY AS SAVVY AS BIDEN, HOW COULD HE HAVE NOT CHALLENGED THOSE REPORTS?

HOW COULD HE NOT HAVE SEEN THROUGH THEM?

AND I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, THERE I THINK WE REALLY GET INTO TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE INNER WORKINGS OF AN ADMINISTRATION.

YOU KNOW, WHO GETS TO TALK TO THE PRESIDENT?

>> Braude: YES.

>> AND HOW FREQUENTLY.

I MEAN, IT'S A SMALL POINT BUT I WAS STRUCK BY OVER THE WEEKEND, THINGS ARE FALLING APART AND BIDEN'S UP THERE AT CAMP DAVID.

>> Braude: CAMP DAVID.

>> HAVING VIDEO CONFERENCES.

I MEAN I MUST SAY, HAD I BEEN IN HIS SHOES I WOULD HAVE INSTRUCTED MY CHIEFS INTORD FLATS TO GET TO CAMP DAVID NOW, AND -- SUBORDINATES TO REGRET TO CAMP DAVID NOW TO GET A BETTER GRIP ON THIS SITUATION.

SO AT LEAST THE VISUALS OF THAT, COMMUNICATED A KIND OF CASUALNESS THAT DIDN'T FIT WITH THE URGENCY OF THE SITUATION AT LEAST AS I OBSERVED IT.

>> Braude: SO HARKENING BACK TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT A MINUTE AGO, ABOUT OUR LEADERS NOT LEARNING FROM HISTORY.

WHAT SHOULD THEY LEARN FROM THE HISTORY OF 20 YEARS IN AMERICA'S LONGEST WAR?

>> WELL, I MEAN I THINK THE BIGGEST LESSON IS TO COME TO AN APPRECIATION OF THE LIMITED UTILITY OF FORCE.

YOU AND I ARE APPROXIMATELY THE SAME AGE PART OF THE SAME GENERATION.

I DON'T THINK I SENTIMENTALIZE THE PAST, THE 1950s AND SO ON.

BUT I DO ANY IT'S THE CASE THAT WHEN -- THINK IT'S THE CASE THAT WHEN YOU AND I WERE GROWING UP THE PRINCIPAL PURPOSE, NOT SOLE, THE PRINCIPAL PURPOSE OF AMERICAN MILITARY POWER WAS TO AVERT WAR.

TO AVERT THE BIG WAR, TO AAVERT THE WORLD WAR III.

THERE WERE THINGS GOING ON IN VIETNAM WITH THE SHEN AN BEGANS OF THE CIA BUT THE PURPOSE OF THE U.S. MILITARY WAS TO PREVENT THE WAR, CONTAIN COMMUNE I, DEFEND EUROPE AND OUR ALLIES.

SEASONING FLIPPED AFTER -- SOMETHING FLIPPED AT THE END OF THE COLD WAR, BEGAN TO BELIEVE THAT MILITARY POWER WAS USEFUL, COULD BE PUT TO WORK.

WE CAN USE IT TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.

AND THAT BEGAN PARTICULARLY IN THE 1990s BUT CERTAINLY GOING AFTER 9/11, THIS SPATE OF MILITARY ACTIVISM WHERE WE INTERVENED IN COUNTRIES WITH AN EXPECTATION OF BEING ABLE TO PUT THINGS RIGHT.

SOME OF THE EPISODES WERE SMALL AND WERE BRIEF.

SOMALIA WHICH ENDED IN A DISASTER.

SOME OF THEM WERE MUCH LARGER AND MORE PROTRACTED WITH IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN BEING.EXAMPLES.

BUT OUR TRACK RECORD, OUR ABLE ABILITY TO FIX THINGS BY THE USE OF AMERICAN MILITARY POWER IS MIXED AT BEST.

AND FOR SOME REASON, THAT'S THE LESSON I THINK THAT HAS NOT YET SUNK IN, IN WASHINGTON.

WE FACE CHALLENGES.

I MEAN, SETTING ASIDE AFGHANISTAN, FACE CHALLENGES, GEOPOLITICAL CHALLENGES, CHINA AS AN EXAMPLE.

LARGER CHALLENGES, THE CLIMATE CHAOS BUT BY GOD WE SHOULD COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT DEPLOYING AMERICAN SOLDIERS OR DROPPING BOMBS MAY ON OCCASION BE NECESSARY.

BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE THE PRIMARY INSTRUMENT THAT WE TURN TO WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE THREATS TO OUR NATION.

>> Braude: ANDREW BACEVICH, I ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: A BAD SITUATION IN HAITI IS GETTING WORSE.

WERE MORE THAN 1400 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED DEAD SO FAR, FOLLOWING SATURDAY'S 7.2 MAGNITUDE EARTHQUAKE.

AND AS SOCIAL MEDIA VIDEOS HAVE SHOWN, EFFORTS TO GET FOOD AND OTHER SUPPLIES TO SURVIVORS HAVE BEEN COMPLICATED BY HEAVY DOWNPOURS FROM TROPICAL STORM GRACE, WHICH IS CAUSING FLOODING, AND FORCING MANY TO SEEK SHELTER UNDER TARPS AT CAMPSITES WHERE THEY'VE BEEN STAYING, IN CASE AFTERSHOCKS BRING DOWN YET MORE BUILDINGS.

MANY ROADS ARE IMPASSABLE, AND ALTHOUGH THE U.S. COAST GUARD HAS BEEN AIRLIFTING SOME INJURED PEOPLE TO MEDICAL FACILITIES, THE PROCESS IS SLOW, AS ONE CNN REPORTER DOCUMENTED.

>> BACK AT THE AIRPORT FIRST RESPONDERS DESPERATELY LOOK FOR A WAY TO GET THIS YOUNG GIRL OUT.

SHE'S STOIC, BUT HER LEG IS GRAVELY INJURED, AND SHE'S CLEARLY IN PAIN.

THIS PLANE IS FULL.

ANOTHER HELICOPTER TAKES OFF WITHOUT HER.

AND SO, AFTER WALKING AROUND THE TARMAC, SHE'S PLACED IN ANOTHER TRUCK-- A PAINFUL WAIT FOR HELP GOES ON.

>> Braude: ONE YOU MAYOR TOLD AN HAITIAN RADIO STATION, "EVERY HOUSE WAS DESTROYED, THERE'S NOWHERE TO LIVE, WE NEED SHELTERS, MEDICAL HELP, AND ESPECIALLY WATER.

WE'VE HAD NOTHING FOR THREE DAYS, AND INJURED VICTIMS ARE STARTING TO DIE."

JOINING ME ARE LINDA DORCENA FORRY, A FORMER LEGISLATOR WHO WAS THE FIRST STATE SENATOR OF HAITIAN DESCENT IN MASSACHUSETTS, AND PIERRE NOEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HAITI DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTE, AN INITIATIVE OF THE BOSTON FOUNDATION.

PIERRE AND LINDA THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU JIM FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: PIERRE CAN YOU BRING US UP TO DATE ON THE MOST CURRENT INFORMATION YOU HAVE FROM HAITI, WHAT KINDS OF CONDITIONS ARE NOW BEING EXPERIENCED?

>> WELL, THE CURRENT CONDITIONS JUST EARLIER AROUND 1:00 I SPOKE WITH A COUPLE OF PARTNERS WE HAVE ON THE GROUND IN THE SOUTH.

AND WHAT THEY'RE REALLY EXPLAINING IS, PEOPLE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE ANY HOMES LEFT.

THOSE HOMES THAT ARE STANDING, THEY'RE TOO AFRAID AND AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, TO ACTUALLY GO BACK IN THEM.

SO THEY SPENT THE NIGHT PRETTY MUCH OUTSIDE.

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH, BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN DISCONNECTED.

>> Braude: YEAH.

>> FROM THE CENTRAL -- FROM THE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH TARPS AND OTHER THINGS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW FOR PEOPLE.

SO THEY PRETTY MUCH SPENT THE NIGHT AND ALSO THE CONDITION GOT WORSE YESTERDAY AND OVERNIGHT BECAUSE OF THE RAIN.

>> Braude: THE FLOODING, YES.

>> THE HURRICANE THAT'S MAKING ITS WAY THERE.

SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT A COUPLE MORE DAYS IN THE -- IN THIS BAD CONDITIONS RIGHT NOW.

>> Braude: LINDA ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE LEARNED, I'VE BEEN WACHING ALL THE VIDEOS TRYING TO CONSUME AS MANY REPORTS AS I CAN.

MUCH OF WHAT WE KNOW WE ALL KNOW BUT I'VE LEARNED MUCH OF THE FOOD FOR HAITI IS PRODUCED IN THIS REGION OF THE COUNTRY MOST AFFECTED.

SO THE POTENTIAL FOR FOOD SHORTAGE WELL BEYOND THE AREA WHERE THE EARTHQUAKE WAS THROUGHOUT HAITI IS QUITE GREAT, CORRECT CAN WILLIAM.

>> I MEAN IT IS QUITE GREAT.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT YOU KNOW THIS IS A COMPOUNDING ISSUE, RIGHT?

IN TERMS OF THIS HORRIFIC EARTHQUAKE.

BUT THERE'S BEEN FOOD INSECURITY FOR A WHILE, AT LEAST FOR THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS IN HAITI AND TO HAVE THIS YOU KNOW TRAGEDY HAPPEN IS VERY -- IT'S HORRIBLE.

AND I THINK YOU KNOW, I WANT TO THANK PIERRE FOR THE WORK THAT IS HAPPENING ON THE GROUND BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS REALLY A PIECE THAT I WOULD SAY IS KIND OF DIFFERENT FROM 2010, IS THAT IT HIT THE CAPITAL WHICH WAS DENSELY POPULATED BUT STILL IN THE SOUTH OF IN THESE AREAS, IT IS STILL POPULATED RIGHT?

IT'S LIKE A SMALL CITY AND SO THAT IS STILL HORRIBLE ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF LACK OF ACCESSIBILITY.

COMING FROM PORTO PRINCE TO GET THE GOODS AND THE HELP AND THE SERVICES NEEDED IT IS DIFFICULT.

>> Braude: WHEN I READ THE STORY ABOUT ONE OF THE GANGS THAT CONTROLS MUCH OF THE ROUTE BETWEEN PORT O PRINCE AND THIS AREA, GRANTING A CRAIS FIRE SO THAT SUPPLIES COULD GET THERE, OH MY GOSH, LINDA, I SHOULD HAVE ASKED DO YOU HAVE FAMILY IN THE AFFECTED AREA OR NO?

>> I DO NOT, WE STILL HAVE FAMILY IN HAITI BUT NOT IN THAT AREA.

>> Braude: HOW ABOUT YOU PIERRE?

>> MY FAMILY IS ALSO IN THE NORTH.

>> Braude: CAN WE TALK ABOUT SHORTLY TERM NEEDS STARTING WITH YOU PIERRE?

ARE DONATIONS COMING IN FOR WHAT IS NEEDED?

IS U.S. A.I.D.

DOING ITS JOB?

WHAT IS THE STATE OF AFFAIRS?

>> WELL, NEEDS SPECIFICALLY THERE ARE DONATION, THERE ARE MOVEMENTS IN TERMS OF TRYING TO GET THINGS TO THE GROUND TO PEOPLE.

WATER, THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF WATER AS YOU CAN IMAGINE IN CASES LIKE THIS.

AND RIGHT NOW, THE NEED IS MOSTLY AROUND CARE FOR THE SICK, THE INJURED, BECAUSE YOU WILL NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS TIME AND 2010 IS WHERE THE POINT REALLY COVERED MUCH OF A RURAL COMMUNITY.

THE RURAL AREA, SO BETWEEN THE MAJOR CITIES OF GELERIE AND LACAILLE, BESIDES THAT YOU HAVE RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT ARE DECIMATED.

WATER IS KEY.

PEOPLE NEED TEMPORARY HOUSING, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE NECESSARY RIGHT NOW, TEMPORARY HOUSING, WATER, FOOD, BECAUSE PEOPLE ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO CERTAIN THINGS, BECAUSE OF THE DISCONNECT THAT EXISTED FOR THREE MONTHS.

AND EXACERBATED BY THIS EARTHQUAKE AND ON TOP OF THAT OF COURSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE THE COVID AFFECT IN THE HOSPITAL.

>> Braude: OF COURSE.

>> THE HOSPITALS ARE ALREADY AT CAPACITY PRIOR TO THIS.

>> Braude: LINDA -- GO AHEAD PIERRE I'M SORRY.

>> WE ALSO I SHOULD ADD ALSO IS THAT YOU ALSO, THIS FROM 2010 IS THAT THANKS TO PEOPLE LIKE THE SENATOR WHO HELPED PUT TOGETHER THE AD DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTE, WE ACTUALLY HAVE QUITE TON OF ACCESS AND SUPPORT AND PARTNERS IN THE SOUTH, CAPABLE ORGANIZATIONS, CAPABLE LEADERS, WHO RIGHT NOW CAN ACTUALLY ACCOMPANY THEIR COMMUNITIES.

AND WE ACTUALLY THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE.

BECAUSE IF INCLUDED THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BE THE DIFFERENCE-MAKERS.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW LINDA CAN WE TALK LONGER-TEMP FOR A SECOND?

YOU KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CONSTRUCTION THESE DAYS AND TO BORROW A TERM FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THIS COUNTRY ABOUT BUILDING BACK BETTER, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT HAS GOT TO BE ONE OF THE GOALS FOR LONG TERM STABILITY AND PUBLIC HEALTH IN HAITI.

IS THAT HAPPENING OR IS THAT JUST PIPE DREAM STUFF?

>> NO, I MEAN I THINK IT IS HAPPENING.

RIGHT?

I WOULD SAY THAT IN SOME PLACES, THEY DID BUILD BACK BETTER, RIGHT PIERRE IN TERMS OF HAITI?

BUT WE NOAA THAT AFTER THIS EARTHQUAKE, THOUGH, IS HOW DO WE BRING ALL THE PARTNERS TO THE TABLE.

AND THIS IS OBVIOUSLY HAITI AND THE HAITIAN GOVERNMENT U.S. A.I.

THE CIVIL SOCIETY AND THESE INSTITUTIONS AND NONPROFITS TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE BUILDING STANDARDS, MAKING SLUR THE HAITI IS OFTEN A FAULT LINE.

THERE WAS AN EARTHQUAKE ON 2010, 2021 AND ONE IN BETWEEN A 5.6 SO THIS WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

SO HOW DO WE BUILD BACK STRONGER AND BETTER SO WE ASK MAKE SURE THAT NO LIVES ARE LOST AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT.

>> Braude: LINDA STAYING WITH YOU FOR A SECOND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS FOR LACK OF BETTER EXPRESSION.

YOU KNOW WHEN YOU SEE THESE PICTURES AS SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT BEEN TO HAITI, AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE THREE EARTHQUAKES, AND 200,000 PEOPLE DYING IN THE FIRST ONE, THE RECOVERY THAT WAS NOT YET OVER, COVID AS PIERRE MENTIONED, THE ASSASSINATION IN HIS HOME OF A PRESIDENT YET ANOTHER EARTHQUAKE, HOW DO THE PEOPLE OF HAITI IN THEIR HEADS NOT JUST IN THEIR BODIES AND THEIR STRUCTURES, HOW DO THEY SURVIVE THIS ENDLESS SERIES OF TRAUMAS?

>> YEAH, I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, AND WE ALL KNOW THIS, HAITI AND THE HAITIAN PEOPLE ARE RESILIENT, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IN FACE OF ALL OF THESE TRAUMAS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE STILL TRYING TO LIVE THEIR LIVES, PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES, YOU KNOW, HAVE FOOD ON THEIR TABLE.

AND SO FOR US IT'S HOW DO WE SUPPORT HAITI AND SELF GOVERNANCE IN ITSELF AS A SELF LED COUNTRY, ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE UNDERGROUND WHERE WE ARE HELPING YOU KNOW, IT NEEDS SUPPORT FROM US AS AMERICA BUT NOT ININSTRUCTION FROM US.

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ON THE GROUND LIVING THERE DAY TO DAY.

SO THE SOLUTION IN HAITI ARE IN HAITI.

THAT'S WHY I WANT TO LIFT UP AN NATIONAL BE ORGANIZATION THAT MARIA AND I WERE PART OF THE FOUNDERS, THE AMERICAN ELECTED OFFICIALS NETWORK.

200 OF US WHERE WE'VE BEEN HAVING CONVERSATIONS AND MEETING WITH OUR GOVERNMENTAL U.S. A.I.D.

THE AHAITIAN GOVERNMENT AND CIVIL SOCIETY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS WE ARE DOING.

THIS WAS BEFORE THE EARTHQUAKE BECAUSE OF THE WHOLE POLITICAL UNREST.

OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE HAD TO PIVOT AND FOCUS TO SEE HOW WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE WHEN WE'RE SAVING PEOPLE'S LIVES, YES, BUT THAT WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT WHEN HAITIANS COME OUT OF THIS THERE IS OPPORTUNITY.

>> Braude: UNDERSTOOD.

>> YOU KNOW.

>> Braude: PIERRE I ONLY HAVE 15 SECONDS LEFT.

IF INDIVIDUALS WANT TO DO WHAT THEY CAN TO HELP WHAT IS THE BEST ADVICE YOU CAN GIVE THEM IF YOU CAN?

>> RIGHT NOW BEST WAY TO DO THIS IS TO MAKE SURE YOU PROVIDE -- GET SUPPORT DOWN TO THE PEOPLE BUT THROUGH PEOPLE THAT HAS ACCESS TO CONTEXT AND THE CULTURAL COMPETENT PEOPLE TO DO THIS.

RIGHT NOW HAITI DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTE HAS CREATED AN EARTHQUAKE FUND TO RAISE FUNDS THAT WOULD BE GOING TO SUPPORT NOT ONLY THE RELIEF EFFORT BUT ALSO TO SUPPORT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE IN THE TRENCHES WITH WORK AND STAKE ON THE GROUND TO HELP THEM ACCOMPANY THEIR COMMUNITIES THROUGH THIS CRISIS.

>> THAT'S WONDERFUL PIERRE.

ALSO WANTED TO ADD JUST QUICKLY AND JUST MENTION YOU KNOW THE WORK THAT'S HAPPENING IN MASSACHUSETTS WITH OUR PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIPS RIGHT?

LIKE GOVERNOR BAKER HAS BEEN ON THE PHONE, PARTNERS IN HEALTH, BUILD HEALTH INTERNATIONAL, WITH JIM AND KAREN AND SARA THAT WE'VE BEEN CLOSE WITH BUT WE'RE ALSO WORKING WITH ROBERT KRAFT WHO HAS DONATED HIS PLANE TO BRING MEDICAL SUPPLIES TO HAITI.

TO MAKE SURE THERE IS CONNECTION.

SO MANY PEOPLE ARE DOING AMAZING THINGS, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO LIFT UP THE WORK THAT PIERRE IS DOING AS WELL.

OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, PLEASE RESEARCH WE NEED YOU TO SUPPORT AND KEEP THE PRAYERS GOING FOR HAITI.

>> Braude: LINDA, PIERRE I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

BEST OF LUCK WITH YOUR WORK AND BEST OF LUCK TO THE PEOPLE IN HAITI.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU JIM.

>> THANKS JIM.

>> Braude: AS IMOFT AATTEMPTS TO MOVE BEYOND THE PANDEMIC, A LOCAL FARM IS STEPPING UP TO PROVIDE FRESH FOOD TO COMMUNITY RESIDENTS.

AS TORI BEDFORD REPORTS, THE FARM IS LOCATED IN THE HEART OF A NEIGHBORHOOD HARD-HIT BY COVID.

>> ONCE THEY REALLY GROW OUT, THEN WE CAN ADD SOIL TO THEM, TOO.

>> Reporter: EVERY MORNING, BOBBY WALKER SHARES HIS FARMING KNOWLEDGE WITH A SMALL GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS AT THE FOWLER CLARK EPSTEIN FARM IN MATTAPAN.

>> THE SWEET POTATOES ARE LOOKING GOOD.

I WAS A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT THEM THERE FOR A SECOND.

THAT'S RIGHT.

(LAUGHS) >> Reporter: ORIGINALLY CULTIVATED IN 1786, THE HALF-ACRE OF LAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY SAT VACANT FOR DECADES UNTIL A REHABILITATION EFFORT IN 2013, LED BY PEOPLE FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, LIKE WALKER AND PATRICIA SPENCE, THE PRESIDENT OF THE URBAN FARMING INSTITUTE.

>> OUR MISSION IS, WE DON'T JUST GROW FOOD, WE GROW PEOPLE.

>> Reporter: SPENCE SAYS THAT INCLUDES EVERYONE IN THE COMMUNITY.

AT THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC, FOOD INSECURITY INCREASED ACROSS THE STATE BY 55% AND NEIGHBORHOODS OF COLOR LIKE MATTAPAN, WERE DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED.

>> YOU COULDN'T EVEN GET ON THE BUS AT THAT TIME.

YOU PROBABLY COULD GET TO A CORNER STORE, PROBABLY, BUT EVEN THEY WERE HAVING ISSUES, GETTING FOOD.

WHAT WE LEARNED IS THAT THE FOOD CHAIN JUST DISINTEGRATED DURING COVID.

SO, TO BE HONEST, WE WERE THE PLACE TO BE.

>> Reporter: WITH DONATIONS FROM THE CITY AND OTHER FUNDERS, THE FARM WAS ABLE TO STAY OPEN, PROVIDING 15,000 POUNDS OF FRESH PRODUCE TO THE COMMUNITY AND OFFERING COUPONS FOR PRODUCE AT THE FARMERS MARKET TO CUSTOMERS LIKE MATTAPAN RESIDENTS KARA BOETTGER AND WILLIE JACKSON.

>> DEFINITELY THINGS WERE TOUGH, THERE WERE SOMENT UNKNOWNS.

SO, ANY EXTRA HELP THAT WAS AVAILABLE WAS REALLY A BLESSING.

>> I LIVE ON A FIXED INCOME, SO, THIS REALLY HELPS.

YOU KNOW, IT REALLY HELPS.

>> Reporter: COMMUNITY OUTREACH ALSO MEANS CREATING A SPACE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR PEOPLE FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, LIKE WALKER, WHO CURRENTLY LIVES ON THE FARM.

HE SAYS HE COULD HAVE NEVER DREAMED OF THIS PLACE AS A KID GROWING UP IN ROXBURY.

>> NONE OF THIS WAS HERE EVEN WHEN I WAS GROWING UP.

SO, LIKE, "A FARM IN THE CITY?"

THAT'S, LIKE, WHAT I GET A LOT, "A FARM IN THE CITY?"

LIKE, WHERE, WHERE?

>> Reporter: WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT, THE FARM REDUCED ITS TEAM OF 750 VOLUNTEERS TO JUST TEN.

PEOPLE LIKE TALIA McCRAY, WHO MOVED TO MATTAPAN DURING THE PANDEMIC AND USED THE FARM AS A WAY TO ESTABLISH TIES IN HER NEW NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> IT'S NICE TO BE ABLE TO COME HERE AND NOT ALWAYS FEEL LIKE I'M LEANING ON LIKE THE ONE OR TWO HUMANS THAT I KNOW.

AND JUST EXPANDING MY COMMUNITY AND LIKE MY AND MY NETWORK AND JUST KNOWING NEW PEOPLE AND PLACES AND THINGS.

>> IN LOOKS GOOD.

THIS LOOKS GOOD.

>> Reporter: AS MATTAPAN CONTINUES TO RECOVER FROM THE PANDEMIC, THE FARMERS AT FOWLER CLARK WILL CONTINUE TO GROW-- BOTH THEIR PRODUCE AND THEIR ROOTS IN THE COMMUNITY.

TORI BEDFORD, GBH NEWS.

CAN.

>> Braude: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.