>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> HEY, THANKS THO JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOKS ABOUT GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US AND ON THE SECOND HALF OF OUR PROGRAM WE CALL NEXT UP, WENDY AND I WILL TALK TO MAXINE CLARK, FOUNDER OF BUILD-A-BEAR WORKSHOP AND NOW SOMEONE LEADING A MAJOR DEVELOPMENT CALLED THE DELMAR DIVINE.

WE'LL TALK GOOD THAT AND OTHER ISSUES, BUT FIRST, LET'S WELCOME BACK WENDY WIESE, THE NEWS DIRECTOR FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS AND THE COHOST OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW.

WE ALSO WELCOME BACK FROM HIS WEEK OFF MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

HE'S RAY HARTMANN FROM THE RAWSTORY.COM AND HIS OWN PROGRAM EVENINGS ON THE BIG 550 AND WE ALSO WELCOME THE NEWS EDITOR FOR THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN AND A SPORTS COLUMNIST THERE AS WELL, MR. ALVIN REID.

WE START WITH YOU, WENDY, BECAUSE JUDGE ELLEN RIBAUDO RULED THERE WON'T BE A MASK MANDATE.

WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, SHE ENJOYED THE MASK MANDATE THAT WAS PREFERRED BY THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY EXECUTIVE, BUT THEN THE STATE'S ATTORNEY GENERAL AS WELL AS COUNTY COUNCIL REJECT THE IT.

IT WENT TO COURT AND THERE WAS NO COMPROMISE, SO NOW IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WEAR A MASK.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED THE MASK AS WE LIVE WITH THE DELTA VARIANT.

WHO DO YOU BLAME FOR THIS NOT BEING IN EFFECT?

>> WELL, I THINK IF COUNTY EXECUTIVE PAGE HAD NOT ACTEDION ACTEDION -- ACTED UNILATERALLY TO BEGIN WITH, IF HE HAD WORKED WITH COUNTY COUNCIL AND DOT WORK THAT HAS TO BE DONE LEGISLATIVELY IN THAT SESSION, SHOWING EACH AND EVERY ONE ON OF THEM WHO REPRESENT THEIR OWN CONSTITUENCY, THE SAME KIND OF RESPECT HE SEEMS TO DEMAND FROM EVERYBODY, I DON'T THINK THAT WE WOULD BE HERE.

WHAT IS REALLY INTERESTING IS ACCORDING TO THE JUDGE'S ORDER, IF ANYONE WOULD EVEN THINK OF STEPPING OUTSIDE OF THIS INJUNCTION, THEN THEY WILL NOW BE CRIMINALLY LIABLE.

SO I THINK WE ALL NEED TO WATCH FOR THAT IN THE DAYS AHEAD BECAUSE IS IN NOW A PRETTY FIERY ISSUE.

BUT I BLAME SAM PAGE FOR ACTING LIKE A KING INSTEAD OF A COALITION BUILDER.

>> I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND, FRANKLY.

THIS IS A HORRIBLE SITUATION FOR A BASICALLY BLUE COUNTY IN A -- THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A RED-BLUE ISSUE NATIONALLY.

WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT THE ONLY ONES FIGHTING ABOUT THIS, BUT THE OUTCOME IS SO AWFUL AND I BLAME EVERYBODY EXCEPT THE JUDGE WHO SOUNDED MORE LIKE A KINDERGARTEN TEACHER TRYING TO GET KIDS TO PLAY NICE.

I DON'T THINK IT WAS HER FAULT THEY COULDN'T.

THE PARTIES ARE JUST SO LOCKED IN TO THEIR TALKING POINTS THAT THERE WAS NO COMPROMISE.

ALL I KNOW IS IT'S A REALLY BAD OUTCOME BECAUSE THIS -- THE DELTA VARIANT AND THE PANDEMIC ARE NOT HYPOTHETICAL AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY POLITICAL.

THIS IS A SERIOUS HEALTH CRISIS AND IT'S FRANKLY DISGUSTING THAT ANY OF US, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, WHATEVER, SHOULD HAVE OUR LIVES JEOPARDIZED BY THIS DYSFUNCTION.

>> WELL, I THOUGHT IT WAS QUAINT AND KIND OF OLD SCHOOL, YOUNG JUDGE ELLEN RIBAUDO TRYING TO USE MORAL PERSUASION IN AN ISSUE WHERE THERE WAS JUST -- THERE'S NO MORAL -- SHE NEEDED A CLUB.

LIKE I CAN REMEMBER JUDGE BRENDAN RYAN HAVING A DIVORCE CASE AND THINKING THAT THE TWO -- THE HUSBAND AND WIFE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH MONEY AND HE WAS UPSET WITH THE LAWYERS FOR MAKING IT SO CONTESTED, AND HE SAID I WANT YOU TO SETTLE THIS.

AND THEY SAY, IT CAN'T BE SETTLED.

HE WAS IN THE CHAMBERS AND SAID, OKAY, WE'LL BE OUT THERE IN TEN MINUTES TO START, I'M BLOCKING OFF TWO DAYS AND THE FIRST THING I'M GOING TO ANNOUNCE IS WE'RE WAIVING LEGAL FEES.

SEE YOU IN TEN MINUTES.

IN FIVE MINUTES, THE LAWYERS CAME IN AND SAID WE'VE SETTLED.

AND THE POOR JUDGE RIBAUDO DIDN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF LEVERAGE.

ALL SHE COULD DO WAS YOU SAID, RAY, SAY PLAY NICE AND THESE PEOPLE ARE WELL BEYOND NA.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT, TOO.

WHAT SHE WAS ASKING PEOPLE TO DO, IT WAS BEYOND THAT, BUT WHY?

BECAUSE YOU HAD TWO COUNCILWOMEN FROM NORTH COUNTY, COUNCILWOMAN DAYS WHO'S THE CHAIR AND COUNCILWOMAN WEBB VOTING AGAINST THE BEST INTEREST OF THEIR PEOPLE FOR POLITICAL REASONS.

LISTEN, THERE ARE RATTLESNAKES OUT THERE, OKAY.

AND MORE OF THEM FOR WHATEVER REASON ARE IN YOUR PRECINCTS OR IN YOUR DISTRICTS THAT YOU REPRESENT THAN OTHER PLACES THROUGHOUT ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

WHATEVER PROBLEMS YOU HAVE WITH SAM PAGE AND WHATEVER PROBLEMS YOU HAVE WITH HOW HE DID THINGS OR WHATEVER PROBLEMS YOU HAVE, YOU VOTED WITH INDIVIDUALS THAT, A, HAVE PROVEN TO NOT REALLY CARE ABOUT THIS ENTIRE PANDEMIC, AND TWO, DEFINITELY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT YOU REPRESENT.

SO I BLAME THEM.

YOU COULD HAVE -- LOOK, THE JUDGE CAN RULE HOWEVER SHE WANTS TO, BUT THE REASON THAT IT GOT TO THIS POINT SO FAST AND SO RIDICULOUSLY OUT OF CONTROL AT THE COUNCIL MEETINGS RESTS ON BOTH OF THEIR HEADS.

>> I DIS DEGRAGREE, ALVIN, I'LL TELL YOU WHY.

I WAS SURPRISED WHEN COUNCILWOMAN WEBB DIDN'T VOTE, SHE SENT OUT A PRESS RELEASE SAYING SHE WAS IN FAVOR OF A MASK MANDATE, BUT DIDN'T WANT THE METHOD USED BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE TO ENACT IT.

I BLAME THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET VACCINATIONS.

I'M NOT GOING TO BLAME THE LEADERS IN THIS CASE.

THE REASON WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION DURING THE DELTA VARIANT SPREADING AND PEOPLE FILLING THE HOSPITALS WITH A NURSING LABOR SHORTAGE IS TOO MANY OF US DID NOT GET THE VACCINATION.

WE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT MASKS AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME.

>> I MEAN, I AGREE WITH YOU.

THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT, OKAY?

AND I WILL SAY THAT BUILDING A $50 MILLION FACILITY IN NORTH COUNTY, WHICH WOULDN'T BE COMPLETED FOR FIVE YEARS, WHERE THERE WOULD BE HERD IMMUNITY OR WE'LL ALL BE DEAD, THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

I JUST -- LIKE, COME ON, LET'S BE REALISTIC ABOUT THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW AND IT'S PROVEN THAT MASKS HELP REDUCE THE SPREAD OF THE CORONAVIRUS.

SO ANYBODY WHO STANDS AGAINST THAT FOR ANY REASON IS IN THE WRONG.

>> OKAY.

LET'S MOVE ON TO YOU, RAY HARTMANN.

AFTER -- OR RATHER, DURING ONE OF THE COUNTY COUNCIL MEETINGS RECENTLY, SPEAKER AFTER SPEAKER GOT UP AND SHARED THEIR VIEWS ON MASKS, PRO AND CON.

AS IT TURNS OUT, MANY OF THEM WERE AGAINST MASKS, BUT SOME OF THEM USED LANGUAGE THAT UPSET RABBI SUSAN TELVI AS WELL AS FORMER STATE LAWMAKER STACY NEWMAN.

ACCORDING TO THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH THE SPEAKER SAID, FEELS MORE LIKE NAZI GERMANY, NOT AMERICA, LAND OF THE FREE.

ANOTHER SPEAKER ALLUDED TO THE HOLOCAUST WHILE DENYING THE EXISTENCE OF COVID-19.

THERE'S NO VIRUS, IT'S A SCAM.

AND AT LEAST TWO OTHER SPEAKERS ACCORDING TO THE POST FALSELY CLAIMED THE COVID-19 VACCINES WERE EXPERIMENTAL AND A VIOLATION NEUREMBERG CODE.

BOTH SAM PAGE, STACY NEWMAN, RABBI TELVI AND OTHERS SAY THE CHAIR OF THE COUNCIL, RITA HEARD DAYS, OWES THE JEWISH COMMUNITY AN APOLOGY AND SHOULD HAVE SHUT DOWN THE SPEAKERS AND THE SPEAKERS WERE DECRIED FOR THEIR ANTI-SEMITISM.

SEEMS TO ME THEIR REMARKS WERE IGNORANT AND INSENSITIVE, BUT THEY ALSO SEEM TO BE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED SPEECH.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT RABBI TELVI AND STACY RAISED THIS AWARENESS IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT JUST HOW OBSCENE AND STUPID THIS WAS.

I DON'T AGREE THAT THE RESPONSIBILITY FALLS AT ALL WITH COUNCILWOMAN -- COUNCIL CHAIRWOMAN DAYS.

I'VE SAID IT ON THE AIR, MY GRANDPARENTS WERE MURDERED AT AUSCHWITZ, SO I HAVE A CONNECTION TO THIS STORY.

I FIND IT -- I DON'T EVEN USE THE WORD "OFFENSIVE," THOUGH.

IT'S SO STUPID AND MY VIEW IS I'D RATHER KNOW WHERE THE STUPID PEOPLE ARE, I'D RATHER KNOW WHERE THE NAZIS ARE, BUT IN GENERAL, I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, THE MORE MORONIC THESE PEOPLE ARE AND ARE ALLOWED TO BE, I'M JUST NOT SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVES IN BLEEPING THEM OUT.

I WILL SAY THIS AND I DON'T WANT TO GET OFF THE SUBJECT TOO MUCH, BUT THEY SPEND WAY, WAY, WAY TOO MUCH TIME TOLERATING THESE RIDICULOUS COMMENTS GENERALLY.

THEY DON'T NEED TO SET TWO HOURS -- THERE'S A MILLION OF US IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

WE DON'T ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK AT THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING.

THEY SHOULD LIMIT THERE -- I THINK THEIR RULES SAY AN HOUR.

I THINK THEY OUGHT TO LIMIT THE PUBLIC COMMENT TO MAYBE 30 MINUTES AND GOOD FOR KELLI DUNAWAY AS SHE SUGGESTED, IT WAS VOTED DOWN 5-2, THAT THEY ALLOW PEOPLE TO MAKE THEIR COMMENTS VIRTUALLY BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF US THAT MIGHT WANT TO COMMENT THAT DON'T FEEL LIKE RISKING THEIR LIVES GOING TO A MASKLESS MEETING TO DO SO.

>> ALL RIGHT, BUT -- OKAY.

KEYWORDS WERE LEFT OUT WHEN YOU'RE MAKING THAT ARGUMENT AND I'LL PUT THIS TO CHAIR DAYS.

ALL RIGHT?

IF THESE PEOPLE HAD SAID, I FEEL LIKE A JEWISH PERSON IN AUSCHWITZ.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY?

ALL RIGHT.

IF THEY SAID TO RITA DAYS, I FEEL LIKE A NEGRO IN ALABAMA DURING SLAVERY.

SHE'D HAVE BEEN BANGING THAT GAVEL TILL THE DIAS FELL DOWN.

DON'T LET THIS STUFF PASS.

THIS STUFF IS RACIST, ANTI-SEMITE, OUT OF CONTROL, AND DON'T GIVE PEOPLE A PASS BECAUSE -- >> NO, NO, NO.

SEE, AND I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU, ALVIN, I JUST DISAGREE SO STRONGLY.

I DON'T THINK THEY'RE EVEN SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE, I DON'T THINK -- I THINK THEY THINK THAT THEY ACTUALLY PUT THEMSELVES ON THE SAME LEVEL AS JEWS DURING THE HOLOCAUST.

TO EQUATE BEING ASKED TO WEAR A MASK OR TO GET A VACCINE WITH THE EXTINCTION, WITH THE EXTERMINATION OF AN ENTIRE PEOPLE, OF AN ENTIRE PART OF THE WORLD, THAT IS A LEVEL OF STUPIDITY THAT WE -- I DON'T THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO BE ANTI- -- I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO BE ANTI-ANYTHING.

I THINK THEY'RE SO STUPID, IT'S NOT RITA DAYS' OBLIGATION TO EDUCATE THESE PEOPLE ABOUT THE NONSENSICAL THING THEY'RE SAYING.

>> BUT BRILLIANT DIDN'T CREATE THE HOLOCAUST AND BRILLIANT DIDN'T CREATE SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

STUPIDITY AND RACISM CAUSED THESE THINGS.

YOU HAVE TO TARGET IT AND SAY I'M NOT ALLOWING THAT.

I MIGHT STAND UP AND SAY YOU MIGHT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT, BUT YOU'RE NOT SAYING IT IN THIS COUNCIL CHAMBER.

>> BUT IT'S A GOVERNMENT MEETING AND THESE PEOPLE HAVE THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, DO THEY NOT, RAY?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, ERNIE TRACK AS -- TRAKAS WAS THROWING THAT PHRASE AROUND AND WE OUGHT TO SPEND SOME MONEY SENDING HIM TO LEGAL EDUCATION SO HE UNDERSTANDS THE MEANING OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

IN A FORUM LIKE THAT, TECHNICALLY, GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE REGULATING CONTENT AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT ALVIN IS SAYING BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.

THE ANALOGY IS A GOOD ONE.

CHANGE THE WORDS, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT RESPONSE AND GOOD FOR STACY AND RABBI FOR BRINGING IT UP, BUT HAD RITA CUT THEM OFF, THEN THE BIG STORY WOULD HAVE BEEN HOW RITA CUT THEM OFF.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND MY POINT IS, IT'S AMAZING THAT WE HAVE THESE PEOPLE LIVING AMONG US IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY, BUT I STILL WOULD RATHER KNOW THAT THEY'RE OUT THERE.

>> BUT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NATIONAL, THIS IS GLOBAL.

>> RIGHT, IT'S -- >> THIS IS ALL OVER THE GLOBE, PEOPLE MAKING THIS ARGUMENT, SAYING THAT THEY ARE BEING TREATED LIKE JEWS DURING THE HOLOCAUST.

>> RIGHT, AND I RESPECT WHAT WENDY WAS SAYING AND I LIKE RABBI TELVI AND FORMER LEGISLATOR STACY NEWMAN, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS WAS REALLY -- THE SPEAKERS REALLY THOUGHT OF THEMSELVES AS BEING ANTI-SEMITIC, AND I THINK WHEN YOU -- AND THE ANTI-SEMITISM, LIKE RACISM, IS A REAL SCOURGE AND I THINK WHEN YOU USE THAT TERM TOO LOOSELY, IT'S NOT A GOOD THING.

>> OKAY, ALVIN -- >> BUT THERE'S A COLOSSAL -- >> WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.

>> THIS WEEK IN DISCUSSING CORI BUSH, SOMEBODY SAID TO ME, THIS HAPPENED TWO DAYS AGO, SAID, WELL, EXPLAIN IT TO ME, YOU'RE COLORED, OKAY?

NOW, THIS HAPPENED IN KIRKWOOD, MISSOURI, TWO DAYS AGO.

NOW, I DON'T THINK HE, WHATEVER.

I CAN EXCUSE HIM FOR NOT BEING RACIST, BUT HEY, THAT'S OUT OF CONTROL, OKAY?

IF YOU LET THIS STUFF GO, IT GETS EVEN FURTHER OUT OF CONTROL.

>> YOU KNOW, ALVIN, THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO CONTROL THE CONTENT OF OUR SPEECH.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH TO ALLOW SPEECH THAT WE DISAGREE WITH, RIGHT.

>> BUT THAT'S NOT QUITE THE -- OKAY.

CAN I TELL YOU THE SOLUTION -- >> NO, WE HAVE LOTS OF TOPICS HERE, INCLUDING, ALVIN REID, WE KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN MANY PROBLEMS IN AFGHANISTAN WITH THE WAY THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN WINDING DOWN THAT WAR.

BUT AMONG THE ISSUES WE WILL BE FACING, REFUGEES IN THE UNITED STATES.

ST. LOUIS CITY HAS ABOUT 60,000 BOSNIAN REFUGEES THAT CAME HERE IN THE MID 1990s ACCORDING TO SOME ESTIMATES.

LOCAL LEADERS HAVE SAID IN THE CITY AND COUNTY THEY'RE READY TO WELCOME ABOUT A THOUSAND AFGHAN REFUGEES TO ST. LOUIS.

I THINK THAT'S FAR TOO LOW A NUMBER, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE SO MANY JOB OPENINGS RIGHT NOW THAT AREN'T FILLED.

I THINK WE SHOULD BRING 10- TO 20,000.

WHAT SAY YOU, ALVIN?

>> I SAY BRING 30,000 HAITIANS HERE.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT TOO.

I SAID THAT THE OTHER DAY ON KMOX.

>> I THINK THAT ST. LOUIS COUNTY, ST. LOUIS SHOULD WELCOME ALL THAT COME.

GIVE US YOUR TIRED, YOUR HUNGRY AND YOUR POOR.

WITH THAT SAID, WE HAVE PROBLEMS HERE.

WE HAVE PROBLEMS WHICH WE'RE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW WITH MINORITIES AND INCLUSION AND DIVERSITY AND HOW PEOPLE THINK OF OTHER PEOPLE.

CAN WE PRIORITIZE WHAT WE HAVE HERE RIGHT NOW BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO BRINGING IN ANOTHER 20,000 PEOPLE TO OUR REGION?

IT'S NOT WRONG, BUT LET'S NOT LOSE TRACK OF WHAT OUR REAL PROBLEM IS AND WE GOT REAL PROBLEMS IN THIS REGION RIGHT NOW.

>> OF COURSE, THE IDEA, ALVIN, IS THAT IMMIGRATION HELPS THE CITY AND HELPS THE REGION AND MAKE A STRONGER CITY AND STRONGER REGION, WOULD HELP THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE AND NEED HELP.

OTHERWISE YOUR POINT IS GOOD, WE HAVE A LOT OF HOME-GROWN PROBLEMS.

>> IF 20,000 AFGHANS CAME TO ST. LOUIS AND I DON'T KNOW THIS FOR A FACT, BUT I'M GOING TO STATE WHAT I THINK.

ULTIMATELY, I THINK THE PRICE TO BE PAID WOULD BE PAID BY RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS BY WHICH THE MAJORITY OF THOSE ARE BLACK.

>> I DON'T THINK THERE WOULD BE A PRICE TO BE PAID, PERSONALLY.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

IF WE WANT TO WAIT TILL WE -- WE WOULDN'T BE ACCEPTING ANYBODY IF WE WAIT TILL WE FIX THINGS HERE.

I THINK YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING POINT.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT, RAY.

THAT IS A GOOD POINT.

>> AND MY POINT IS I THINK YOUR HEART IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND I THINK THERE ARE -- YOU'VE GOT TO CONSIDER THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF MULTIPLE FOLKS THAT ARE AFFECTED.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS, IT WAS JUST FLAT OUT WONDERFUL THAT BOSNIAN MUSLIMS CAME IN GREAT NUMBERS TO THIS COMMUNITY SOME YEARS AGO, BUT THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS WASN'T ABLE TO RETAIN THAT COMMUNITY IN THE CITY, AND I THINK THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS TO BE RAISED.

WE GOT A WONDERFUL INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE, BUT THERE'S SOME REAL QUESTIONS TO BE RAISED ABOUT, TO YOUR POINT, ALVIN, IF YOU'RE GOING TO ACCEPT PEOPLE, WHICH I AM IN FAVOR WHETHER THEY'RE HAITIANS OR AFGHANS -- >> I AGREE.

>> -- AND I LOVE THE FACT THAT REPUBLICANS, ALL OF A SUDDEN WHO ARE WHINING ABOUT HOW TERRIBLE 'TIS WE ABANDON THESE AFGHAN REFUGEES AND TRANSLATORS AND STUFF -- >> SHAW'S GARDEN WAS STARTED BY IMMIGRANT, HENRY SHAW WAS AN IMMIGRANT.

>> WHAT COLOR WERE THEY?

>> SCHAERL, CHARLIE -- >> THE SON OF A NEXT CAN'T IMMIGRANT AND THESE IMMIGRANTS WOULD FILL THE JOBS WE CURRENTLY HAVE OPEN.

>> ALVIN, WAITING UNTIL -- >> NEED BUS DRIVERS, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

>> WAIT UNTIL WE TAKE CARE OF ALL THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE NOW BEFORE WE LET ADDITIONAL PEOPLE IN SOUNDS AN AWFUL LOT LIKE THE 45th PRESIDENT.

>> I'M FOR LETTING THEM IN, LET'S BE CLEAR.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

I JUST THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE A STRATEGY TO HELP PEOPLE BECOME, YOU KNOW, COMFORTABLE AND -- >> HELP ALL PEOPLE, TO HELP ALL PEOPLE.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> CORRECT.

AND I THINK THERE'S ROOM FOR GROWTH BECAUSE WE HAD THE CENSUS LAST WEEK, WE'RE A DYING CITY.

WE USED TO BE TOP 20, NOW YEAR 21.

IMMIGRATION IS ONE THING WE LACK IN.

IF HEY, BILL McCLELLAN, THE JAIL LOST CONTROL AGAIN.

LAST WEEKEND FOR FIVE HOURS, THE GUARDS WATCHED WHILE ONE DETAINEE AFTER ANOTHER BEAT UP ON THREE OF THEM, SENDING THEM TO THE HOSPITAL.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME.

IT'S LIKE THE SEVENTH DISTURBANCE, THE DETAINEES LEFT A REC AREA WHERE I GUESS THEY WERE EXERCISING, AND THEY DESTROYED THE CONTROL PANEL, COMPUTERS, MORE, AND FINALLY FIVE HOURS LATER THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT ALONG WITH SOME UNDERFORMED MEMBERS OF THE ST. LOUIS METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT SHOWED UP AND GUARDS WERE SAYING THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MASKS, THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH GUARDS.

I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN TO A POINT WHERE LOCAL CONTROL IS NOT WORKING AT THIS JAIL, SO FILL UP THE MEDIUM SECURITY WORKHOUSE OR MOVE THEM TO STATE AND FEDERAL FACILITIES.

>> WELL, CLOSING THE WORKHOUSE, I THINK WAS DONE TOO PREMATURELY, BUT I THINK WE OUGHT TO PUT THE SHERIFF IN CHARGE OF THE JAIL.

AT LEAST THEN THERE'S SOMEBODY ACCOUNTABLE.

I NEVER KNOW WHO'S ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE JAIL.

I MEAN, WE HAD DAN ISOM, THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY, ON THE SHOW AND I THOUGHT DAN ISOM WAS IN CHARGE.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, THERE'S ANOTHER OUTBREAK AND THEY PUSH SOME MAJOR I'VE NEVER HEARD OF IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS AND THE MAJOR DIDN'T SEEM TO KNOW WHAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

IT JUST -- IF WE HAD THE SHERIFF IN CHARGE, AT LEAST IF THERE WAS A FAILURE, WE WOULD SAY IT'S ON THE SHERIFF INSTEAD OF RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S IN CHARGE.

I DON'T, ANYWAY.

>> AND THE VIDEOTAPE THAT KMOV OBTAINED, THE THING THAT'S SO SURPRISING TO ME IS YOU KNOW THAT THE GUARDS HAVE TO FEEL INTENSE HEAT RIGHT NOW.

WITH ALL OF THE COVERAGE IN THE MEDIA ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE JUSTICE CENTER, BUT THERE'S STILL THIS APPARENT APATHY.

IT'S JUST HARD TO -- IT'S HARD TO WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND IT.

I CAN'T IMAGINE.

>> I THINK SOME PROJECTS THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU JUST HAVE A PROBLEM PUTTING A FINANCIAL FIGURE, A DOLLAR AMOUNT ON WHAT IT TAKES TO FIX THAT PROJECT.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S ONE OF THESE, OKAY?

WE NEED TO MOVE EVERYBODY IN THIS FACILITY SOMEPLACE ELSE FOR A MONTH, SIX WEEKS, AND WE NEED TO COMPLETELY GET THIS PLACE READY TO HOLD PRISONERS, ALL RIGHT?

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.

IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT DIFFICULT TO ME.

AND IF THE MAYOR NEEDS TO USE THE MONEY COMING TO THE CITY, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE ARA, WELL, THEN DO THAT.

IF THERE'S OTHER GRANTS OR WHATEVER, THEN DO THAT.

BUT I JUST THINK THERE'S THIS HESITANCY WHICH I CAN'T UNDERSTAND TO JUST ADDRESS THE PROBLEM AND FIX IT.

AND THAT'S THE POINT I DON'T GET.

>> WELL, YOU MAKE A GREAT POINT, ALVIN.

WHEN YOU SAY WE NEED TO FIX THE JAIL SO IT CAN HOLD PRISONERS, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT SHOULD HAVE SELF-EVIDENT ALREADY.

IT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD THING TO DO WITH THE JAIL.

>> I LIKE -- >> HOLD PRISONERS.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO DISAGREE WITH ALL YOUR SOLUTIONS ON THE GROUNDS THAT I DON'T HAVE A CLUE AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF US FROM AFAR CAN.

I WAS TALKING TO SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY WAY SMARTER THAN ME WHO'S IN THIS BUSINESS, AND IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT -- I MEAN, FOR THOSE OF US, LIKE FOR US, LOOKING AT THIS THINK THINKING YOU HAVE JAIL CELLS THAT DON'T LOCK?

YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS SO BIZARRE AND SO IRRATIONAL, BUT -- >> YOU THINK?

>> WELL, YEAH, BUT THE FACT IS, I'M SORRY, WITH ALL RESPECT TO SHERIFF BETTS, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT.

>> AT LEAST WE KNOW WHO'S IN CHARGE.

>> AND HE WOULD BE IN CHARGE, BILL.

>> WHO IS RESPONSIBLE RIGHT NOW?

IS IT DAN ISOM.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

[ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> IT'S A PROBLEM THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE AN ANSWER TO -- >> THE SHERIFF WOULD BE -- >> CAN I SAY ONE THING, CHARLIE?

KMOV, THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD STORY FOR THEM.

THEY GET A SHOUTOUT FOR THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF STORIES WE'VE SEEN -- >> HEAR HEAR.

>> IT WAS A GOOD STORY.

>> RAY, I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING BECAUSE IT'S TRAGIC IN THE MINDS OF SOME.

STEVE WALSH, THE HUSBAND OF SARA WALSH, THE STATE LAWMAKER, SHE'S TRYING TO BECOME THE NEXT SENATOR.

STEVE WALSH HAS DIED AFTER SUFFERING FROM COVID-19.

HE WAS QUITE PUBLIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOT VACCINATED.

SHE'S NOT VACCINATED EITHER.

I GUESS I'M A LITTLE BIT JUDGE-Y.

I HAVE A LIMITED, I GUESS, IN TERMS OF EMPATHY.

I'M NOT FEELING SORRY FOR PEOPLE WHO TAKE UP HOSPITAL BEDS BECAUSE OF COVID-19 AFTER THEY ARE OPENLY UNVACCINATED.

HOW ABOUT YOU?

>> I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU.

AND I DID NOT KNOW STEVE WALSH.

I HAVE A NUMBER OF FRIENDS WHO KNEW HIM WELL.

SAID HE WAS A GOOD GUY AND, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I DISAGREE WITH HIS POLITICS STRENUOUSLY AND WITH SARA WALSH'S POLITICS.

IT IS A TRAGEDY FOR THEIR FAMILY AND I JUST WISH MORE PEOPLE WHO AGREED WITH THEM COULD SEE THAT THEY'RE JUST STATISTICS.

HE'S JUST ANOTHER OF THE 600,000-PLUS FOLKS AND THEIR TRAGEDY ISN'T ANY LESS.

AND EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT IT, I WISH THEY COULD CHANNEL THIS VERY RELIGIOUS, YOU KNOW, TALK THEY MAKE ABOUT PRAYING FOR THEM AND ALL THIS STUFF, CERTAINLY GO FOR IT, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD CREATED THE VIRUS, TOO, AND WE NEED TO TRY TO TAKE SOME TRAGEDIES LIKE THIS, WHICH IT IS, SOMETHING -- WE'VE GOT TO GET OVER THIS.

THIS IS A -- >> WE CAN GET OVER IT WITH A VACCINE, BUT YOU REJECT IT.

>> BUT BEING MEAN ABOUT HIM IS NOT HELPFUL.

>> THERE'S A LINE OF DEMARCATION.

IF YOU DIE AFTER CONTRACTING THE CORONAVIRUS AFTER THE VACCINE WAS AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S ON YOU, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I AM SAYING THAT YOU CAN NO LONGER, LIKE -- YOUR DEATH IS NOT THE SAME AS SOMEONE WHO DIED IN JULY OF 2020.

>> I AGREE.

>> BECAUSE THERE WAS NO VACCINE.

ALL YOU COULD DO WAS HOPE YOU DID NOT GET IT AND THEN HOPE YOU SURVIVED IF YOU DID.

THEY CHOSE TO, FOR WHATEVER REAS REASON, TO NOT DO IT, BUT THEN IF YOU ADD ON LIKE CARDINAL BERKE ON A VENTILATOR AS WE SPEAK, TALKING ABOUT SHIFTS IN YOUR BODIES AN ALL THAT NONSENSE, WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO THOSE THAT YOU'RE SAYING IT TO?

>> ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE A LEADER, YOU'RE RIGHT, ALVIN, YOU COULD BE LEADING OTHER PEOPLE TO THEIR GRAVE.

>> THEY'RE PEOPLE TO CREATE PHYSICAL SCANDALS, IF YOU WILL, TO CREATE A HEALTH-RELATED SCANDAL.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THE DEPTH OF MISERY OF SOMEBODY WHO HAS -- WHO HAS PROMOTED ANTI-VACCINE, YOU KNOW, THAT ANTI-VACCINE MINDSET, TO NOW KNOW THAT THEIR CHANCES OF ACTUALLY SUCCUMBING TO COVID, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT DEPTH OF MISERY.

I WOULDN'T WISH IT ON MY WORST ENEMY, BUT IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO, TO BE BROKENHEARTED BY THESE CASES.

>> WELL, THE SAD THING IS, IT ISN'T LIKE PEOPLE SEEM TO LEARN.

I REMEMBER WHEN -- WAS IT HERB KAINE WHO DIED AFTER THE SUPER SPREADER IN OKLAHOMA AND THERE WAS NO GREAT OUTPOURING OF SADNESS FROM THE TRUMP PEOPLE AND NOW, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THIS LATEST FELLOW, STEVE WALSH, IS IT?

I DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT I'M SURE HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY IS HURT, BUT HIS POLITICAL BEDFELLOW, THEY'RE NOT SAYING, OH, MAYBE WE'VE BEEN MISTAKEN.

THEY'RE STILL OUT THERE FIGHTING AGAINST THIS.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT I -- >> 20 SECONDS, RAY.

>> I THINK THAT'S CRITICAL TO CALL THEM OUT.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE.

SO ME, THE PEOPLE THAT OUGHT TO BE CALLED OUT, RATHER THAN SAYING, OH, TOO BAD, YOU DIED, I'M MORE INTERESTED IN SAYING WE NEED TO CALL OUT -- LIKE THIS TOUCHES ON THE SENATE RACE OUT THERE.

THIS IS THE BIG RACE IN MISSOURI RIGHT NOW.

>> RAY, GOOD POINT.

I'M SORRY TO SAY -- >> THEY OUGHT TO ALL BE CALLED -- >> WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

THAT'S THE SHOW FOR THE FIRST HALF ANYWAY.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELCOME TO DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

CHARLIE BRENNAN, I'M WENDY WIESE, AND WE ARE THRILLED TONIGHT TO WELCOME MAXINE CLARK TO THE PROGRAM, THE FOUNDER, THE BELOVED FOUNDER OF BUILD-A-BEAR WORKSHOP, AND SHE HAS NOT -- SHE'S NOT SLOWING DOWN, WE SHOULD SAY.

A WRONG TURN LED HER TO DO SOMETHING EVEN PERHAPS MORE EXCITING, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE, THAN ALL OF THE GOOD WORK THAT SHE'S ALREADY DONE.

MAXINE, WELCOME TO DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

>> THANK YOU, I'M GLAD TO BE HERE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> CAN YOU SHARE WITH OUR VIEWERS HOW THAT WRONG TURN, WHILE YOU WERE GOING THROUGH THE DELMAR WEST NEIGHBORHOOD, GOT YOU TO THINKING, ONCE YOU PASSED THE OLD ST. LUKE'S -- THE OLD ST. LUKE'S -- >> THE HOSPITAL.

>> HOSPITAL, THANK YOU.

>> YEAH, IT WAS REALLY -- I DON'T THINK IT WAS A WRONG TURN.

JUST ONE DAY, I WAS -- WE WERE WORKING ON OPENING UP OUR CHIP CHARTER SCHOOL IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD ON MAPLE AND ARCADE AND I JUST WAS GOING HOME.

IT WAS ABOUT 4:00 AND I WAS -- I TURNED RIGHT INSTEAD OF GOING LEFT.

I DECIDED TO GOT OTHER WAY AND I CAME AROUND THE CORNER TOWARDS DELMAR AND THEY WERE NAILING THE "FOR SALE" SIGN INTO THIS HOSPITAL.

I THOUGHT, OH MY GOSH, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH THIS?

IT'S SO BIG.

I DIDN'T KNOW HOW BIG, BUT I COULD SEE IT WAS BIG.

I PICKED UP THE PHONE AND CALLED DENNIS AT CORTEX AND SAID WHY DON'T YOU BUY THIS AND TURN IT INTO CORTEX WEST.

HE SAID I CAN'T DO IT, WE HAVE SO MUCH PROPERTY, WE'RE SO BUSY, WHY DON'T YOU DO IT?

THAT'S USUALLY THE TRIGGER THAT SAYS, YEAH, WHY DON'T I DO IT.

I LOVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

I'D MET SO MANY PEOPLE THROUGH OPENING UP THE SCHOOL, SO MANY NEIGHBORS, AND I TALKED TO THEM ABOUT IT AND THEY ALL THOUGHT, WE CAN'T LET THIS PLACE FALL APART, WHICH IS WHAT LIKELY HAVE HAPPENED TO IT BECAUSE IT WAS QUITE A LARGE STRUCTURE.

IT WAS NOT FULLY OCCUPIED EVEN WHEN THEY FINALLY SOLD IT AND CLOSED IT DOWN.

SO IT WAS -- I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY A GOOD TURN.

SOMETIMES YOU JUST, YOU KNOW, ISN'T THE WAY THE JOURNEY GOES IN LIFE AND I THINK IT WAS MEANT TO BE.

AND I -- FROM THERE, I TOOK IT FURTHER.

I WENT TO DIFFERENT PARTNERS TO SEE WHAT -- BECAUSE I AM NOT A DEVELOPER EVEN THOUGH I'VE OPENED UP HUNDREDS OF STORES IN MALLS AROUND THE WORLD.

IT'S A LOT DIFFERENT.

IN FACT, I OPENED UP -- I HAD THE IDEA FOR BUILD-A-BEAR AND OWN THE FIRST STORE IN NINE MONTHS.

THIS HAS BEEN FIVE AND A HALF YEARS, ALMOST SIX YEARS AND BEFORE WE OPEN IT WILL BE SIX YEARS.

IT'S MUCH MORE COMPLICATED.

NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE WEREN'T COOPERATIVE, JUST BECAUSE THE PROCESSES ARE COMPLICATED, SO WHEN YOU WONDER WHY A NEIGHBORHOOD IS FALLING APART AND HOW LONG IT TAIBS TO BRING IT TOGETHER, IT'S BECAUSE THEY'VE MADE IT ULTRA-COMPLICATED TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

>> I KNOW IT'S CALLED THE DELMAR DIVINE.

I KNOW IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY NORTH OF DELMAR.

YOU CAN GET INTO THAT, BUT TELL US PRECISELY WHERE THIS IS AND WHAT IT WILL INCLUDE WHEN IT OPENS.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, GROWING UP OUTSIDE OF ST. LOUIS, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE DELMAR DIVIDE.

EVERY CITY HAS A PLACE LIKE THIS, THOUGH.

SORT OF A DEMARCATION THAT SEPARATES RICH AND POOR, BLACK AND WHITE OR IN MIAMI IT WAS HISPANICS AND NON-HISPANICS WHERE I GREW UP.

IT WAS JUST REALLY NOT THAT UNUSUAL, BUT I HAD NEVER PAID MUCH ATTENTION TO IT UNTIL FERGUSON WHEN THEY STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT ON THE NEWS BECAUSE I WAS ON DELMAR ALL THE TIME WORKING IN NEIGHBORHOODS AND IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS NORTH OF DELMAR ALL THE TIME.

AND IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE A DIVIDE TO ME.

JUST SEEMED UNFORTUNATE.

I PROBABLY HAD PAID ATTENTION TO IT, I WOULD HAVE SEEN IT, BUT WHAT I THOUGHT REALLY WAS WHAT WE WERE LACKING WAS INVESTMENT, INNOVATION, AND INCLUSION, AND SO THAT'S WHAT -- WHEN I CHANGED THE "D" TO THE "N" IT WAS MEANT TO BE A TEMPORARY NAME.

I WAS GOING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING SEXIER AND I STARTED WITH THAT, BUT EVERYONE LIKED IT AND STARTED CALLING IT AND REFERRING TO IT, SO IT BECAME THE BRAND NAME AND I KEPT IT.

IT'S MEANT TO CHANGE THAT VISION WE HAVE ABOUT DELMAR FROM BEING A DIVIDE TO BEING SOMETHING THAT GETS BLURRED OVER TIMES BECOMES WHAT IT WAS ONCE WAS, A THRIVING, INTERCULTURAL, MULTICULTURAL IMMIGRANT NEIGHBORHOOD AT THE TURN OF THE 19th TO THE 20th CENTURY.

I'VE DONE SO MUCH RESEARCH ON IT NOW, I FEEL LIKE I KNOW EVERYBODY THAT WAS EVER BORN HERE BECAUSE IT WAS A CROSS SECTION OF ST. LOUIS POPULATION, FAMOUS AND NOT SO FAMOUS, BUT SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME, I WAS BORN THERE OR MY MOTHER WAS A NURSE THERE OR MY FATHER WAS A DOCTOR OR MY MOTHER WAS THE HEAD OF HUMAN RESOURCES.

EVERYONE HAS A CONNECTION TO ST. LUKE'S, IT SEEMS.

>> IF I COULD JUST JUMP IN HERE, IT'S GOING TO INCLUDE APARTMENTS AND LIKE A -- >> IT'S A BIG -- >> A BUNCH OF NOT-FOR-PROFITS AND HOW FAR EAST OF SKENG KERR CAN YOU BE?

>> IT'S ACTUALLY BETWEEN BOLIVAR AND UNION, CLOSER TO UNION.

IT'S IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN SKINKER AND UNION AND IT'S A HUGE CAMPUS.

ABOUT 500,000 SQUARE FEET, ABOUT EIGHT BUILDINGS BUILT FROM 1904 TO 1962 OR '3 WAS THE LAST BUILDING.

SO A LONG TIME.

AND ONE OF THE -- TWO OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WERE THE DOCTORS OFFICES ARE GOING TO BE OFFICES FOR NONPROFITS.

THINK CORTEX FOR NONPROFITS, BUT ON A SMALLER FOOTPRINT.

THE FRONT, THE MODERN HOSPITAL, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY BUILT IN 1961, SO NOT SO MODERN ANYMORE, IS GOING TO BE APARTMENTS.

150 APARTMENTS FOR AFFORDABLE, WORKFORCE HOUSING FOR TEACHERS, NURSES, SOCIAL WORKERS, PUBLIC HEALTH, PUBLIC SAFETY, THOSE YOUNG DIVERSE PROFESSIONALS THAT MAKE THAT 35 TO 55,000 AND ACTUALLY BILL'S DAUGHTER IS A TEACHER OR WAS A TEACHER AND I MET HER.

I REALIZED HOW HARD IT WAS FOR YOUNG TEACHERS WHO CAME INTO ST. LOUIS OR ANY CITY TO FIND A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE ON A TEACHER'S SALARY.

SO THAT BECAME A VISION FOR ME A LONG TIME AGO AND WE WERE ABLE TO INCORPORATE THAT HERE.

WE'LL ALSO HAVE RETAIL ON THE MAIN FLOOR OF THE OLD HOSPITAL/NEW APARTMENT BUILDING.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A BANK, ST. LOUIS COMMUNITY CREDIT YOU'RE.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PHARMACY, THE FIRST BLACK-LED PHARMACY IN ST. LOUIS FOR A LONG TIME, GREATER HEALTH AND WELLNESS PHARMACY AND A NEW WAY TO THINK OF A PRIVATELY OWNED PHARMACY AND WE'LL HAVE A RESTAURANT AND AN INVESTMENT OFFICE, ONE THAT'S PRETTY FAMOUS IN ST. LOUIS, BUT WE'VE NEVER HAD AN INVESTMENT OFFICE ON THIS SIDE OF DELMAR, MINOR CLOSE TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD FOR A LONG TIME.

I THINK THE IDEA IS REALLY TO ENCOURAGE THE ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT, ENCOURAGE PERSONAL PROSPERITY AS WELL AS NEIGHBORHOOD PROSPERITY.

BUT THESE NONPROFITS ARE PART OF THE SAFETY NET OF ST. LOUIS IN MANY WAYS.

CROSS SECTION OF ABOUT A THIRD ARE EDUCATION, A THIRD OF HEALTHCARE AND MENTAL HEALTH CARE, AND A THIRD ARE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS IF AND SOME HAVE COME AND GONE BECAUSE WE HAD TO FIND A PLACE TO LIVE BEFORE WE WERE READY TO OPEN, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS MIX OF TENANTS FOR QUITE A LONG TIME.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO COORDINATE ALL THOSE NONPROFITS, AND IT'S SURPRISING THAT IT HASN'T BEEN ATTEMPTED BEFORE THIS POINT, WE HEAR SO MUCH ABOUT FOOD DESERTS IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA OF ST. LOUIS.

WILL THERE BE GROCERY STORES INCLUDED IN THIS, MAXINE, FOR THESE FAMILIES?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE DO HAVE A NEW GROCERY STORE THAT OPEN UP ON UNION AND PAGE IN LAST YEAR OR MAYBE EVEN -- I'VE LOST TRACK OF THE TIME, BUT A SAVE-A-LOT OPEN UP AND THAT'S DONE VERY WELL.

AND THERE'S TWO NEW APARTMENT BUILDINGSES ON BOLIVAR, WHICH IS A BLOCK AWAY FROM US.

A BIG BLOCK.

THESE ARE BIG CITY BLOCKS HERE IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, BUT A BLOCK AWAY FROM US WILL BE, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, ALTHOUGH IT HASN'T BEEN ANNOUNCED YET ON THE MAIN FLOOR OF ONE OF THOSE APARTMENT COMPLEXES, A LOCAL GROCERY STORE THAT WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT.

THEY HAVE A BIGGER FOOTPRINT FOR RETAIL THAN WE DO, SO THAT WILL BE A PERFECT PLACE AND THEY HAVE THE PARKING YOU NEED FOR A GROCERY STORE, SO IT'S REALLY CLOSE.

SO WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

BUT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, FROM ALL OF OUR RESEARCH, 1930-ISH, THE '30s AND '40s, THERE WERE SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 40 MEAT MARKETS, DELIS, RESTAURANTS, IT WAS FILLED WITH RESTAURANTS AND FOOD, WHICH REALLY DOES BRING PEOPLE ACROSS NEIGHBORHOODS AND PEOPLE TELL ME, OH, WE USED TO GO TO THE VELVET FREEZE.

WHICH ONE?

BECAUSE THERE WAS ONE ON DELMAR AND ONE ON DE-BOLIVAR.

THEY WENT TO THIS COFFEE SHOP OR THAT COFFEE SHOP.

ALWAYS FOOD IS IN THE STORIES THAT PEOPLE TELL US AND WE WANT TO BRING FOOD BACK TO THIS PART OF TOWN.

LIKE DINING.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A RESTAURANT.

WE KNOW THAT OTHER RESTAURANTS WILL BE ATTRACTED TO THIS PART OF DELMAR.

THERE REALLY AREN'T ANY BETWEEN -- NOT VERY MANY BETWEEN WABASH STATION AND HERE.

>> WELL, I KNOW THAT YOU'RE -- I'M SORRY.

>> I'M SORRY, CHARLIE.

COULD YOU GO BACK, THOUGH, TO HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO CONNECT ALL OF THESE NONPROFITS IN THIS CORTEX-LIKE SETTING?

SOME ABOUT THAT, CHERARLIE.

>> NO, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ST. LOUIS IS KNOWN FOR, UNFORTUNATELY, IS OUR FRAGMENTATION.

IT PERMEATES EVERYTHING WE DO.

WE HAVE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF NONPROFITS.

WE NOTICED THOUSANDS, BUT WE DON'T NEED AS MANY THOUSANDS AS WE HAVE.

IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 16,000 REPORTED NONPROFITS AND WE CAN'T PUT ALL OF THEM IN ANY ONE BUILDING IN ST. LOUIS.

YOU COULDN'T PUT THEM ANYWHERE, BUT WE WANT TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

SO MANY OF OUR TENANTS WORK WITH MULTIPLE NONPROFITS.

GENERATE HEALTH WORKS WITH AT LEAST 100 NONPROFITS THEMSELVES AND THEY WILL BE BRINGING THOSE TENANTS TO AND FROM THE BUILDING WORKING ON PROJECTS TO MAKE ST. LOUIS A BETTER PLACE.

SO I THINK CORTEX WAS A GREAT MODEL TO SEE HOW WHEN YOU BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER AND HAVE MEETING SPACES FOR PEOPLE AND ENGAGEMENT SPACES FOR PEOPLE, THAT YOU CAN SOLVE PROBLEMS.

I THINK WE'VE DONE A -- WE'VE MOVED HUGELY IN ENTREPRENEURSHIP IN TECHNOLOGY AND LIFE SCIENCES IN ST. LOUIS BECAUSE OF CORTEX AND CREX.

WE JUST NEVER HAD DONE IT FOR NONPROFITS AND NOW WE ARE.

THERE'S A LARGER PROJECT IN MEMPHIS CALLED CROSSTON CONCOURSE, BUT IT'S A COMBINATION OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND WHAT CORTEX IS.

IT WAS A FORMER SEARS WAREHOUSE AND IT'S BEEN CONVERTED INTO AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT.

SIMILAR TO A COLLEGE AND WE'RE NEAR WASH-U AND CORTEX IS NEAR SLU, SO IT IS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY.

WE'RE BETWEEN THE LOOP AND CENTRAL WEST END, FORREST PARK, THIS IS HOLLYWOOD AND VINE IF ST. LOUIS.

IT'S SURPRISING TO ME THAT IT HASN'T BEEN DEVELOPED BEFORE THIS PROJECT.

>> WELL, YOU, OF COURSE, HAVE GREAT EXPERIENCE IN RETAIL WITH THE DEPARTMENT STORES, THE PRESIDENT OF PAYLESS, INVOLVED WITH LERNER AND VENTURE AND THE FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN OF BUILD-A-BEAR.

I KNOW RETAIL IS A BIG QUESTION MARK IN 2021, BUT ANY POSSIBILITY OF RETAIL ON DELMAR?

>> I THINK THERE IS A POSSIBILITY.

I THINK YOU'LL START TO SEE SMALL SHOPS COMING BACK.

WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY THE CRAFT ALLIANCE MOVED FROM UNIVERSITY CITY DOWN TO THE CITY LINES OVER IN THE PROJECT THAT JIM McKELVEY HAS DEVELOPED OVER BY MADE ON THE MAKER SPACE THERE, WHICH IS REALLY GREAT.

I THINK YOU'LL START TO SEE IT.

THERE'S LOTS OF STORE FRONTS THAT WE DON'T OWN THAT ARE ON DELMAR BETWEEN SKINKER AND UNION AND SKINKER AND KINGSHIGHWAY FOR SURE, SO I THINK OVER TIME, I THINK IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A BIG DIFFERENCE AND I THINK THAT SMALL RETAIL WILL BE COMING BACK AND NOW THEY'LL HAVE ALL THE TECHNOLOGY THAT BIG RETAILERS HAVE TO NOT ONLY SELL THEIR PRODUCT LOCALLY, BUT ALSO GLOBALLY, AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE ON WHAT PEOPLE CAN COUNT ON AS THEIR CUSTOMER FOLLOWING.

THEY DON'T JUST NEED FOOT TRAFFIC ANYMORE.

THEY CAN OPEN UP THEIR BUSINESS TO THE WORLD.

>> IN THE OPENING SEGMENT, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE COMPARISON BETWEEN YOUR HISTORY AND YOUR WORK IN RETAIL, IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL CAREER, AND NOW HAS A DEVELOPER, YOU SAID THEY HAVE MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF THE PROCESS INVOLVED.

WHO ARE "THEY," AND WHAT ASSURANCES DO YOU HAVE, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE DONE THE GROUNDWORK, THE LEGWORK, YOU'VE DONE THE NEIGHBORHOOD ARCHEOLOGY DIG, BUT WHAT ASSURANCES DO YOU HAVE THAT THEY WILL NOT COMPLICATE THIS PROCESS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WELL INTO CONSTRUCTION.

ALL THE COMPLICATED STUFF IS BEHIND US, AND I HAVE TO SAY, THE CITY WAS INCREDIBLY COLLABORATIVE.

IT WASN'T ANY ONE PERSON THAT MADE IT HARD, IT'S JUST THE PROCESS THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH FOR A BUILDING THAT'S 100 YEARS OLD THAT HAS ALL KINDS OF CHEMICALS IN IT, THAT HAD MORTUARIES IN IT, BUILDINGS THAT WERE BUILT AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND THE ENGINEERING OF IT IS JUST REALLY COMPLICATED BECAUSE THE STANDARDS FOR A BUILDING TODAY THAT'S GOING TO BE OCCUPIED BY HUMAN BEINGS IS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS WHEN THOSE BUILDINGS WERE BUILT.

AND SO EVERY TIME WE'D TEAR DOWN A WALL, WE'D FIND A NEW PROBLEM.

SO IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO GET THAT RIGHT AND WE ARE MAKING THE RIGHT BECAUSE WE WANT EVERYBODY TO LIVE IN A PLACE THEY'RE REALLY PROUD OF, BUT ALSO, VERSATILE FOR THE NEXT 100 YEARS.

NOT SOMETHING WE'VE BLOCKED OFF OR CUT CORNERS ON.

SO THAT WAS COMPLICATED, BUT MY PARTNER IS CLAYCO CONSTRUCTION ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE AND THEY'VE JUST BEEN -- THEY KNEW WHAT TO DO.

IT'S JUST THAT WE DIDN'T ALL KNOW WHAT WE WERE GETTING INTO AT THE SAME TIME.

WE FOUND OUT AT DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME, BUT REALLY GREAT PARTNERS AND WASHINGTON YOU'VE HAS BEEN A GREAT PARTNER AND THE BANKS HAVE BEEN GREAT PARTNERS, BUT THIS IS A HISTORIC BUILDING.

IT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME TO MAKE IT A HISTORIC KNOWLEDGE, TO PRESERVE ITS HISTORY AND TO TELL THE STORY OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS TO COME BECAUSE IT WAS A MELTING POT NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT AGAIN WHERE LOTS OF PEOPLE CAN LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD TOGETHER AND BUILD PROSPERITY TOGETHER AND HAVE FUN AND GO TO CONCERTS AND MOVIE THEATERS AND ALL THOSE.

AND THEY'RE ALL REALLY IN PROXIMITY.

WE DON'T HAVE TO BUILD ANY INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE JUST HAVE TO BRING THE PEOPLE AND THIS TIME NEXT YEAR IN OUR BUILDING ALONE, PROBABLY A THOUSAND PEOPLE LIVING AND/OR WORKING, AND THEN ON THOSE OTHER TWO PROJECTS ON DEBOLIVAR IN WALKING DISTANCE WILL BE ANOTHER PROBABLY 400 IN EACH APARTMENT BUILDING AND THAT'S FANTASTIC.

THAT'S PEOPLE THAT SHOP AND EAT AND NEED DRY CLEANERS AND DAYCARE CENTERS.

ALL THESE BUILDINGS NOW ALLOW PETS.

THERE'S A BIG OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEBODY TO OPEN UP A FRANCHISE OF ONE OF THOSE PET DAYCARE PLACES.

I'M TOUTING THAT BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED IT BECAUSE THERE'S ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS YOU NEED.

OPTOMETRISTS, BAKERIES, ICE CREAM PARLORS.

>> YOU'RE CLOSE TO DEBOLIVAR S HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT TROLLEY OR THE RETURN OF THE TROLLEY TO YOUR PROJECT?

>> IT'S NOT CRITICAL TO THE PROJECT, BUT I THINK PEOPLE WILL LIKE TO LEAVE THEIR KARTION AND HOP ON THE TROLLEY TO GO TO LUNCH OR GO FOR A WALK AND COME BACK ON THE TROLLEY.

SO WHEN I TALK TO JOE EDWARDS ABOUT IT ALL THE WAY BACK FIVE YEARS AGO, I WASN'T SURE IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT IF IT DID, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AN AMENITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE COULD USE, SO IT'S REALLY JUST A BLOCK AWAY AND IF IT DOES COME BACK, IT WILL BE USED.

I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO BE USED BY NEIGHBORHOODS AND PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAN BY TOURISTS BECAUSE IT'S JUST NOT A TOURISTY NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT I DO BELIEVE PEOPLE WILL USE IT, ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE APARTMENTS AROUND THE AREA BECAUSE YOU CAN GET ON THE TROLLEY AND GO TO THE METRO STATION.

GET ON THE BUS AND -- GET ON THE METRO TRAIN AND GO DOWNTOWN TO THE CARDINALS GAME AND COME BACK AND TAKE IT BACK UP.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S JUST SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION TO BECOME A BIGGER USAGE HERE, RIGHT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.

HAVE YOUR BIKE.

E EVERYTHING IS RIGHT HERE.

THE DELMAR BUS LINE IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR BUILDING, GOES BY EVERY 10 OR 15 MINUTES, VERY FREQUENTED AREA.

PLUS WE ARE REALLY CLOSE TO HIGH SCHOOLS.

WE'VE SOLDAN HIGH SCHOOL, NORMANDY HIGH SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITY CITY HIGH SCHOOL.

KIDS CAN COME AND WORK IN THE BUILDING.

THEY CAN COME AFTER SCHOOL, HAVE AFTER-SCHOOL JOBS.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY AND ACCESS.

ACCESS IS A REALLY KEYWORD HERE BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S ANOTHER REASON THAT MANY OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOOD FOR ST. LOUIS HAVE NOT COME AS SOON AS WE WANTED THEM BECAUSE THEY JUST WEREN'T ACCESSIBLE FOR EVERYONE, BUT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IS HIGHLY ACCESSIBLE NORTH AND SOUTH AND EAST AND WEST.

>> IF YOU'RE JUST JOINING US, WELCOME TO DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

OUR SPECIAL GUEST TONIGHT, MAXINE CLARK, THE FOUNDER OF BUILD-A-BEAR WORKSHOP.

SHE'S NOW MOVED FROM THE FOUNDER OF BUILD-A-BEAR TO THE CHIEF INSPIRER OR CO-INSPIRER, IF YOU WILL, MUCH BUILDING A NEIGHBORHOOD AND A WAY OF LIFE AND REVITALIZING AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE CITY IN WHAT SHE'S CALLING THE DELMAR DIVINE.

YOU HAVE SAID, YOU'VE BEEN QUOTED IN ARTICLES, MAXINE, AS SAYING THAT THE DELAYS THAT YOU MENTIONED AT THE OUTSET OF THIS SEGMENT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN A BLESSING.

HOW HAVE THEY BEEN A BLESSING?

AND I KNOW WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT OPENING UP ONE OF YOUR RETAIL STORES IN A MATTER OF MAYBE SIX TO NINE MONTHS, THIS HAS TO BE DIFFICULT FOR SOMEBODY LIKE YOU TO MAKE THAT ADJUSTMENT, BUT WHY HAS IT WORKED OUT AS A POSITIVE?

>> IT'S BEEN A REALLY -- YOU COULDN'T HAVE CONVINCED ME OF THIS IN THE BEGINNING FOR YOU TRIED TO TELL IT TO ME, BUT THE LEARNED LIFE EXPERIENCES, I'VE GOTTEN TO REALLY KNOW THE NEIGHBORHOOD REALLY WELL AND I'VE ENGAGED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S TAUGHT ME SO MUCH ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, ABOUT THEIR IDEAS, AND WE ACTUALLY WILL HAVE IN THE BUILDING A COMMUNITY ROOM THAT IS JUST FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

THEY'LL HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

IT WILL BE FOR MEETINGS.

WE DO MEETINGS ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND I HOPE WE'LL STILL DO THOSE, BUT WE'LL ALSO HAVE A PERMANENT MACE THAT OUR ALDER PERSON CAN HAVE MEETINGS, CLOSED DOOR -- JUST COMFORTABLE, EASY ACCESS, AND I WANT THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE KIDS TO COME AFTER SCHOOL AND DO THEIR HOMEWORK, HAVE TUTORING IN THE BUILDING, AFTER-SCHOOL JOBS.

I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT FLAVOR AND I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE ENVISIONED THAT FROM THE BEGINNING, BUT GETTING TO KNOW THE NEIGHBORS, I WANT THEM TO BE THERE, I WANT THEM TO COME AND BE A PART OF OUR COMMUNITY.

FOR THE BECAUSE THEY NEED THE SERVICE OF NECESSARILY IN THE BUILDING, ALTHOUGH THEY MAY, BUT REALLY MORE BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEY HELP ME MAKE IT WHAT IT IS TODAY.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT'S BEEN WONDERFUL, I'VE BEEN INVITED, BEFORE COVID, TO WEDDINGS AND BABY SHOWERS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

I CAN BE IN MY CAR IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND SOMEBODY WILL CALL ME UP AND SAY I SAW YOU WERE HERE, WANT TO COME OVER FOR A CUP OF COFFEE?

THAT IS THE BEST FEELING.

THIS IS THE SAME THING I'VE BEEN DOING THE LAST 25 YEARS, JUST GIVING HUGS.

IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT KIND OF HUG AND I GET A LOT OF HUGS BACK AND THE FEELING OF THIS, THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ALL OVER ST. LOUIS.

THERE'S SO MUCH TALENT, SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE, SO MANY WONDERFUL IDEAS AND LIVING IN THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD, THE 63112 WEST END, MADE UP OF A COME GLOM MER RATION OF DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS, DEBOLIVAR, VISION PARK, ACADEMY NEIGHBORHOOD, SO MANY NEIGHBORHOODS AND ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I'VE TALKED TO THAT HAVE LIVED HERE FOR A LONG TIME, THEY NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS CALLED.

THEY JUST WALKED ACROSS THE VETO TO THE VELVET FREEZE OR THE GROCERY STORE, THE GROCERY STORE WAS AT THE CORNER WHERE DELMAR AND DEBOLIVAR MEET, WHICH IS NOW A PARK BETWEEN THE PEOPLE'S CLING AND THE CHILDREN'S MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC.

THAT WAS A BIG GROCERY STORE.

WE COVERED A LOT OF THESE PICTURES AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THOSE ARE IN THE BUILDING SO PEOPLE, NEW PEOPLE AND YOUNG PEOPLE THAT COME TO THE COMMUNITY CAN SEE WHAT WE'RE BUILDING ON, WHICH IS A HISTORY OF GREAT COMMUNITY AND BEAUTIFUL BUILDING AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THE BAD HISTORY IS THERE, TOO.

THE MISTAKES WE MADE IN ST. LOUIS ABOUT SEGREGATION AND RED LINING, BUT I THINK THE BIGGER CHALLENGE TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WAS COMMERCE.

THE OPENING UP OF MALLS AND SHOPPING CENTERS AND HIGHWAYS AFTER THE WAR IN THE '50s AND '60s THAT BROUGHT PEOPLE OUT WEST, AND THEN ALL THOSE SHOPS THAT WERE ON THESE MAIN STREETS.

THEY DIDN'T NEED THEM ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY COULD GO TO THE MALL AND FIND THEM OR THE GROCERY STORES, THE BIG SCHNUCKS AND DEERBERGS THAT THEY STARTED BUILDING UP, PEOPLE DIDN'T NEED THE CORNER GROCERY STORE ANYWHERE AND THERE WERE A LOT OF THEM.

>> HOW IRONIC IS, THIS MAXINE, THAT NOW THE MALLS ARE FALLING BY THE WAYSIDE AND THE DELMAR DIVINE WILL EMPHASIZE THE SMALLER BUSINESS OWNER, THE SHOPKEEPER.

I'M SORRY, THAT'S JUST RICH WITH IRONY.

>> IT IS, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE NAULS ARE GOING AWAY ERS.

I THINK WE JUST NOW HAVE ROOM TO SEE POSSIBILITIES DIFFERENTLY.

WE HAVE AN APPRECIATION, MANY OF US DO, FOR THE HISTORY OF ST. LOUIS AND WHAT'S POSSIBLE HERE, AND NOT LETTING IT ALL GET TORN DOWN.

SO MUCH OF IT HAS BEEN TORN DOWN, BUT ALSO TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE THINGS LIKE THE MALL DOESN'T GO AWAY.

THERE'S LOTS OF USES FOR SOME OF THOSE BIG SPACES IN THE MALL.

I HOPE THEY DON'T EVER GO AWAY.

I LOVE TO SHOP.

>> THEY'LL NEVER GO AWAY ENTIRELY.

>> I THINK WE JUST HAVE A LOT OF THEM AND THEY'LL BE REPURPOSED AND WE'VE LEARNED OUR LESSON NOT TO LET THEM FALL APART, BUT JUST TO REPURPOSE THEM LIKE CHESTERFIELD IS AND OTHER MALLS.

I THINK WE'VE LEARNED OUR LESSON AND I'M HOPEFUL, BUT I'M ESPECIALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE CITY NEIGHBORHOODS WE HAVE AND THERE'S A GROUP OF US, ALTHOUGH WE'RE NOT CONNECTED TECHNICALLY, THE DELMAR DISTRICT, IT'S CALLED, AND THERE'S BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, ACROSS DELMAR, ALL THE WAY TO -- THERE'S DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS WORKING ON IT AND WE MEET QUARTERLY.

WE KNOW WHAT EACH OTHER IS DOING AND I THINK YOU CAN LOOK DOWN DELMAR FROM SKINKER IF YOU CAN SEE THAT FAR AND YOU'LL SEE A DIFFERENT SKYLINE IN TEN YEARS.

WE'LL SAY WHAT TOOK US SO LONG.

>> A LITTLE SOMETHING ABOUT YOU.

YOU'RE NOT A ST. LOUIS NATIVE, BUT YOU'VE BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO MAYBE QUALIFY.

YOU STUDIED JOURNALISM AT THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA -- HOW ABOUT THEM DAWGS -- AND YOUR MOM WORKED FOR ELEANOR ROOSEVELT, CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

MY MOTHER WAS HER PERSONAL TRAVELING SECRETARY, SO SHE WOULD ONLY WORK WHEN SHE TRAVELED, BUT FORTUNATELY ELEANOR ROOSEVELT TRAVELED A LOT.

MY MOTHER WAS DEFINITELY ELEANOR -- ALL THE WOMEN THAT WORKED FOR HER, ALL ABOUT THE UNDERPRIVILEGED PEOPLE IN OUR WORLD, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN BEING INSTITUTIONALIZED, SO THEY WENT TO ALL THESE INSTITUTIONS.

MY MOTHER MOVED TO FLORIDA WITH MY DAD AFTER THE WAR AND SHE AND THREE OF HER FRIENDS OPENED UP A SCHOOL FOR CHILDREN WITH DOWN'S SYNDROME, BUT IT WASN'T CALLED DOWN'S SYNDROME THEN, IT WAS CALLED MONGOL LLOYDISM AND ALL MY LIFE I WAS EXPOSED TO DIFFERENTLY ABLED CHILDREN AND I KNOW ALL CHILDREN HAVE UNIQUE TALENTS AND THEY CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY.

I WANTED TO BE A CAPITALIST, CHARLIE.

MY MOTHER WOULD PROBABLY TURN OVER IN HER GRAVE IF SHE HEARD ME SAY THAT OUT LOUD, SO I WANT WANTED TO BE A CAPITALIST TO DO ALL THOSE THINGS MY MOTHER DID, BUT SHE HAD TO GO AND ASK PEOPLE FOR THE MONEY, BUT I WANTED TO DO IT BECAUSE I WAS SUCCESSFUL AND COULD GIVE BACK.

GROWING UP IN MIAMI, WHICH IS A VERY INTERESTING CITY WITH A DIFFERENT KIND OF POLITICS THAN ST. LOUIS, ONE GIGANTIC SCHOOL DISTRICT, LOTS OF MULTICULTURALISM, SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES.

I WAS SO FORTUNATE.

MY FATHER WAS AN ELECTRICIAN.

HE LEARNED HIS TRADE IN THE MILITARY, BUT HE WAS ALWAYS MAKING THINGS AND DOING THINGS, AND I THINK THAT ALSO PLAYED A PART IN MY PHILOSOPHY OF LIFE.

IT CAN BE BUILT, IT CAN BE PUT TOGETHER.

YOU CAN SLICE IT TOGETHER ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

THIS BUILDING IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> IN THE TIME THAT WE HAVE LEFT, AND THE CLOCK IS TICKING QUICKLY, THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE THOSE WHO USE THE TERM "GENTRIFICATION" WHEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS.

YOU'VE JUST NAPPED OUT FOR 25 MINUTE -- MAPPED OUT FOR 25 MINUTES WHY THIS IS ANYTHING BUT GENTRIFICATION, BUT FOR ANYBODY WHO'S ON THE FENCE, NOW IS YOUR CHANCE.

>> THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMETHING.

IT THE PEOPLE WHO OWNED THEIR HOPES FOR DECADES TO GET THEIR VALUE OUT OF THEIR SHOW ME SO HOPEFULLY THEY CAN SELL IT FOR MORE THAN THEY FADE FOR IT, BUT THIS BUILDING WAS UNOCCUPIED WHEN WE TOOK IT OVER.

THERE WAS NOBODY LIVING THERE, WE DIDN'T DISPLACE ANYBODY AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT THE EMPTY LOTS AND HOPES THAT EXIST IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WILL BE ABLE TO BE REPLENISHED WITH PEOPLE OF ALL AGES AND BACKGROUNDS AND THE HOUSING AND APARTMENTS IN OUR KNOWLEDGE ARE VERY WELL PRICED FOR THE WORKFORCE DESCRIPTIONS I GAVE YOU BECAUSE IT TO STAY DIVERSE, JUST LIKE THIS NEIGHBORHOOD STARTED WITH WORKING CLASS PEOPLE AND IT WILL BE UP TO THEM TO DECIDE THE KIND OF NEIGHBORHOOD THEY WANT.

IT WON'T BE UP TO ME.

IT WILL BE UP TO ALL THE PEOPLE LIVING THERE AND I THINK THERE'S MANY, MANY HOMEOWNERS AND THRMPS APARTMENT DWELLERS.

WE HAVE A GOOD MIX OF SENIORS AND YOUNG PEOPLE, BUT IT WILL BE DIFFERENT AND I THINK THAT MOST THE NEIGHBORS TELL ME, SPAESHLT HOMEOWNERS, THEY WELCOME IT.

SOME OF THE APARTMENT RENTERS ARE WORRIED THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT SELL THEIR APARTMENT BUILDING, BUT I THINK THAT -- I THINK WE'VE GOT A GOOD NICKS.

I THINK WE HAVE PLENTY OF DIVERSE PROPERTIES HERE.

WE ALWAYS HAVE, AND I THINK THAT THEY WILL BLOSSOM INTO WHAT THEY'RE MEANT TO BE AND BE PROPORTIONATE, NOT BE TOO HIGH OR TOO LOW.

I THINK THEY'LL RISE TO A CERTAIN VALUATION.

>> MAX XEEN, WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS TO GO.

CAN YOU NAME SOME OF THOSE 501(c)(3)s THAT HAVE ALREADY SIGNED LEASES AND DO YOU NEED MORE TENANTS?

>> WE HAVE A FEW MORE SPACES, JUST A FEW.

NO SMALL SPACES, THEY'RE ABOUT 2500 OR 3,000 SQUARE FEET.

WE HAVE, LET'S SEE, FUTURE OF AMERICA, THE ALLERGY FOUNDATION, GENERATE HEALTH, ALIVE AND WELL ST. LOUIS, ST. LOUIS ARK, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH RESOURCES MOVING FROM THE COUNTY TO THE CITY, CHARITY CFO AND WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY WILL HAVE OFFICES AND IMPORTANT PLACES HERE IN OUR PROJECT.

YOUR PHILANTHROPY, WHICH IS SMALL, IFF, WHICH IS AN ILLINOIS FINANCIAL FACILITIES ORGANIZATION THAT FUND AND LOT OF NONPROFIT DEVELOPMENT, BUILDINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> GOOD ENOUGH.

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU HAVE TOO MANY TENANTS AND TOO LITTLE TIME ON THIS PROGRAM TO NAME THEM ALL.

>> WE HAVE ROOM FOR OTHERS.

>> AND WHAT'S THE WEBSITE, MAXINE?

>> DELMARDIVINE.COM AND THEY CAN WRITE ME A NOTE AT INFO@DELMARDIVIDE.COM.

>> PERFECT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, MAXINE CLARK, IN YOUR SO-CALLED RETIREMENT NOW OPERATING THE DELMAR DIVINE.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NEXT UP.

>> GOOD NIGHT.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.