Democratic candidate for governor, Jocelyn Benson, picks a running mate in the Republican Party.

Chair Jim Runestad has some comments next up.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

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And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to studio C, another edition of Off the Record.

So now the ticket is complete for the D's.

We have the running mate.

Winnie Brinks.

What did you make of that decision of her being LG?

I mean, it's a pretty safe decision if you're Jocelyn Benson.

Benson is from the Detroit area.

Winnie Brinks this from the West Michigan side of town.

So it does give her a demographic, kind of spread there to put her face and her ticket out in front of voters.

Insofar as who she is as a politician when he has played it pretty safe, I guess, depending on who you ask.

Because what would be see as a boon to Democrats such as, workin to repeal the 1931 abortion ban or expanding the earned income tax credit, could just as easily be used by Republicans to say, well, look at how radical and extreme this, this LG pick is?

Republicans are doing that.

Is that their message.

Is across, across all fronts.

No, look, and she also brings a lot of legislative experienc with, you know, Jocelyn Benson doesn't have.

Right?

I mean, this is someon who has been in the legislature since 2012 both the House and the Senate.

You know, if they were to win, she'll spend more time in the Senate.

She's will have a lot of colleague that she will have worked with.

So, you know, being able to bring, some of that legislative branc experience makes a lot of sense for this choice.

Yeah.

I think if you took a look at the people that she was considering, she did make the most sense.

It makes sense for everybody.

Honestly, I mean she is ter limited out of the legislature.

Did you hear, though that they wanted Ananich first?

I didn't hear that.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Just because he has suc good relations with Republicans.

And maybe they saw him as a bridge builder, somebody who's actually worked well with Republicans and is a bit more affable.

But Winnie Brinks has a reputation of working with Matt Hall, too, you know, and so if Matt Hall is the leader, minority or the speaker, she has experience in working with him in negotiating.

I mean, maybe Matt Hall woul think that this is a great thing because he thinks he rolls her every time in negotiations.

But I think she would have a different opinion.

But, you know, getting back t that makes sense for even her, I mean, being ter limited out of the legislature, this gives her a chance to use your experience in another realm, you know, at this point in her life.

So, yeah, I think this is one of those decisions that works well for everybody.

Yeah.

And it's the first, you know, two females on the top of the ticket.

We should note too, right?

And in opposition to, I suppose, the top of the GOP ticket, which does not have a woman on it for the first time at the top of the ticket.

Excuse me, top of the statewide ticket, specifically because there are women running for, university board positions, on the Republican side.

But it's the first time in 50 years there's been no no woman at the top of the statewide Republican ticket.

Does anybody vote for a ticket because of an LG candidate?

No.

And it's very rare that i makes that much of a difference.

But we're sitting here talking about it anyway.

But I mean, again, it's it's you talk about what they can do to balance out the ticket, right?

And what you can do to add and be a partner.

Is the lost in the reporting of this.

The first reason you pick an LG, I would think, is if something happens to the governor, this person can be governor.

I saw none of that.

Nobody asked that question or whatever.

Is that a legitimate question?

Are you ready on day one kind of question?

Yeah, yeah.

I want to know what kind of conversation they had about the relationship.

As we've watched lieutenant governors over the years, what's been the dea between the governor in the LG?

You know, when I actually we talked to Winnie Brinks yesterday about that and she said they actually had a series of conversations before.

Bingo.

Accepting that as far as what the role was going to be, what she was expected to do.

Thank you.

So before the offer was extended those conversations did happen.

And so what did they agree to?

That she is going to be kind of a, a negotiator on legislate on the legislative front that she, that Benson will give Winni Brinks a little bit of latitude to work with the House and the Senate to get certai pieces of legislation through.

So she will be she will have an active role in the legislative front.

And that was important to her.

Well, it's good they had the conversation because you don't wan to make this up as you go along.

You know we sort of want to have an idea of what you're good.

You don't, you do.

You wonder what relationships are like between governors and their LGs.

I think there's I mean, it made some news, right?

When, Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist announced that he was running for governor and, the sitting governor, Governor Gretchen Whitmer didn't endorse him.

And in that race.

You know you mentioned something earlier, though, Tim, and I thin this would be a good case study because I hear folks saying it doesn't really matter if there's a woman on the ticket or not.

And maybe it doesn't.

I mean, I really don't know, but I mean, if you've got, people who are voting wh don't have a lot of information on the candidates and, you know, people watching this progra are not part of that population.

But, you know, if you have somebody who enters the voting booth and they see all males on one ticket and they see all females on the other, and they're undecided, what do they do?

Do the women go with the women?

Does it make any difference?

I'd like to se I'd like to see a study on that because I, you know, we've been trained over the last several year to say that women have a bounce, that women will vote for women.

Well, I don't kno if that's still the case or not, but I would think that it's got to at least have some in.

Some people in this town have said over the years, and if you're running for the state Supreme Court and you happen to be a woman, it's worth 7%.

Yeah.

For the you know what do you think about the law?

Not right now.

I don't think that's a scientific thing, but that.

Does not sound scientific to me at all.

Lets just throw out numbers.

Is anything in this town scientifically based?

I was going to say.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess just at the end of the day, the role of the LG, frankly speaking, when it comes to whether or not they can court voters is how little baggage do you carr with you and how little baggage.

Do no harm.

Right, exactly.

And make sure that your side, can condition as well as take it.

But, you know, so when we're talking about does there's anybody really looking at this ticket and saying, well, now I'm definitely backing Benson or I'm definitely backing James because they chose Boyer.

No, but I think it goes to the deeper point of, do these people have ghosts, skeletons in their closet?

We have a little bit of time still to to figure that out.

And so far with, with in DeBoyer, at least out the gate Brinks it does not appear so.

But DeBoyer, you know, you're starting to hear rumblings from from Democrats, obviously, who are trying to point out the work that he's done on the Hous Oversight Committee currently.

All right.

Let's talk about the photo ID ballot proposal.

They turned in Kyle 750,000 names.

Slam dunk.

You know what's really incredible is that what happen is, is when those groups turn in something like that, the Bureau of Elections only takes a 1000 signature sample.

So they turned in 750,000 signatures, like you said.

But the Bureau of Elections only takes 1000 of those and checks them to see how accurate.

Scientifically Z. That one is fair.

It's incredible, though.

I mean, I guess they have statistical evidence to say that this is a good enough sample.

You know, it's like polling, I guess.

So what did they say this week?

They said that they didn't have enough signatures, that the sample they pulled, they were short, like.

12,000 signatures, a little less than 12,000 signatures.

Right.

And for a ballot campaign that's allegedly spent, what, like $9 million in order to get in front of people and to have nothing t to maybe nothing to show for it.

The board of canvassers will weigh in on Monday.

But.

Well, yeah, the 12,000 is extrapolated if you take the number of signatures they were off from the 100 sample and then extrapolate it.

Yeah, it's 12,000.

But you know, it just makes you wonde what if they taken another 1000 and checked it?

I mean, what would that result be?

And so I guess the point that I'm trying to make your Tim, is that, yes, if the board of canvassers takes the recommendations from the bureau staff, this thing is not making the ballot.

But I know it also put out there is that this the way that the Bureau of Elections is, has kind of checked whether these signatures are enough or valid enough.

I think it's been long ripe for a question of the courts, and I just wonde if that's where this is headed and whether the Bureau of Elections process and how it handles these kind of things will finally be challenged.

This is the question which you're about to see in this setup piece.

The Michigan group pushin for a statewide vote on voter ID and other requirements to vote, says it turned into 750,000 petition signatures, 446,000 plus were required to get on the November ballot this year.

However, the state Board of Canvassers will meet on Monday to review a staff report from the Election bureau that contends the group did not did not obtain enough valid names based on a scientific sample of 1000 signatures.

The staff concludes the group needed 629 valid names, but only had 612 including many duplicate names.

The sponsors and Presiden Donald Trump want what they call more safeguards to make sur elections are on the up and up.

That could include showing up at the polls with documents including a passport, a birth certificate, photo ID in order to cast a vote.

Kristn Coombs, from the group that launched the petition drive, argues the staff got it wrong and the names were scrubbed before they turned them in.

We spent months, duping signatures and, you know, going through the qualified voter file to make sure that people were on the qualified, you know, on the voter rolls before we, submitted our ballots.

Democratic Representative Matt Koleszar sits on the House Elections Committee.

He argues that Michigan already has a voter ID law that is working.

And in addition, he says.

This is actually going to sto more legal voters from voting.

So you are talking abou suppressing the vote in your own stat in all, in the name of something that, exists next to zero.

I really think that's one of the most un-American, unpatriotic things you can do is stop a legal voter from casting their vote.

The representative argues it will actually cost some citizens more money to vote with all those documents.

But what about the 82% in Michigan polling data that says they favor all this stuff?

You have to govern on what is constitutionally appropriate, not what is popular.

Meanwhile, the petition folk spent $9 million on their drive, and if they lose at the board of canvassers on Monday, they'll have, quote, a serious conversation about a court challenge.

I think, you know, I think we'll have to, you know, kind of consider that.

So what about the representatives point that this is all about trying to suppress the vote?

Is that what's motivating the people?

I mean, opponents say, look at it's very difficult for some people to prove citizenship, that you would need a birth certificate.

Not everybody has a birth certificate, a passport, no everyone can pay for a passport.

So that has been what the opposition has been saying from the beginning.

Yeah.

And I just think it's important to note that in Michigan we do have voter ID laws.

You have to show your ID in order to vote.

I literally just did it in August when we voted for the primary alongside my husband.

And if you don't, you have t sign an affidavit of identity.

Yes.

Obviously there have been people there has been news in the las few years that that individuals literally, like just individuals have been able to vote because of this, but they've also been caught.

So the concept being that we are seeing a system that is working and that we do have a negligible, negligible amount of voter fraud in a human system.

I mean.

This thing is about driving votes, and that's what it is.

This is about Republicans driving people to the polls, because who could say they don't support just making sure that if you're a U.S.

citizen, you can vote?

And if you're not a U.S.

citizen, you can't vote.

And that's that's, on its face, fairly basic.

So this has been a vote driver.

And if this thing does not make the ballot, that is that is a real hit for Republicans this year.

You had to assume that the people sponsoring this petition drive were smart enough to know that whatever we turn in will be fly spected by the other side.

We've not heard from the attorneys yet who are going to fight this thing out.

So it's up to the board of canvassers that will could vote to two, which means it might go to the courts.

Yeah, I think that's pretty I think that's pretty fair.

I mean, they were only off b a few signatures in that sample.

I just I just can't believ they didn't do a wider sample.

Yeah well close only counts in hand grenades.

And you know what.

Darts?

Horseshoes?

That let's go with darts.

Let's call in our guest, the chair of the Republican Party.

Mr.

chairman of the Republican Party, Jim Runestad.

This is a busy week, and we appreciate you taking time out to grace our stage.

Let's begin with a quote from last week's program.

Representative Farhat, whom, you know, said this about the strategy that your party is launching is they're trying to scare people with regard to who are the Democrats.

Here's the quote.

They don't have a path to victory unless they use these racially charged and bigoted stereotypes, bigotry and racism.

What kind of B.S.

is he talking about?

I have no idea what he's referring to.

Well, one of the ads promoted prominently puts the term KKK out there.

Vis a vi Miss Benson?

Oh, it has nothing to do with, the Republican talking point on race.

What it has to do with is Benson involving herself with the Southern Poverty Law Center that was hiring, operatives, insurgents to go in and create, a narrative for the Southern Poverty Law Center of which she was a board member, in order to get the funding going.

That's what that's referring to.

And yet they use race that wasn't Republicans.

The Southern Poverty Law Center bases its entire operation on things like there's there's racism that we're thwarting, and then they're hiring the people to go in and create the racism in the organization that she was a member of the board.

I think that's very legitimate.

So then how do you square that with messaging that's going around right now regarding, Abdul El-Sayed, using his full name, Abdul Rahman Mohammed El-Sayed, calling him a terrorist sympathizer, showing him alongside, photos of, I believe, the Taliba and one Mike Rogers, commercial.

I mean, now, forgive me.

I don't know if that was put up by him specifically or another group on behalf of him.

Tying him to being a puppy killer.

I understand that there's been, a number of charge over the years regarding Muslims in their affinity or lack thereof for dogs, you know, how do you how do you say that and then square the messaging that's been going on regarding Mr.

El-Sayed?

I know that we have been asked by the Rogers camp to be very careful of what name we use and not to use, the name you're referencing.

And in terms of what you're getting to in this very broad based, outline of, these different ads, I'm not familiar i these are all Mike Rogers ads, you could be throwing in all kinds of ads from, from maybe organization that they have no control over.

But should Republican voters or voters in general be concerned that we have, a person with Arab American descent and, who happens to be Muslim on the ballot?

Should we be concerned?

I don't think so.

Okay.

Senator, you work with, Senate Majority Leader Winnie Brinks, who is just named, the lieutenant governo candidate, with Jocelyn Benson.

What do you make of that?

Well she was there for the most far left radical agenda I have seen in any state.

Is Winnie Brinks far left and radical?

Oh, there's no doub when you look at what they did over those two years when they had the trifecta.

I have never seen a more far left agend that was run through than that, absolutely destroying so much of the business community.

What we have in terms of, keeping the people safe, I sat on the Judiciary Committee.

I fought bill after bill after bill that, we're seeing the results of in terms of, the crime that police are telling me that they're dealing with as a result of the bills that passed in that Judiciary Committee, and every single thing that passed in these committees went to the floor and went rocketing through like a spaceship, all on a Partizan vote.

Yes.

I never saw anything as far left as I saw coming out of that two years they had the trifecta.

Is that because the, Democrats have moved that far left?

Is that is that why that agenda cam through, or is that just pent up frustration and not being abl to get their policy through over the last 40 years?

Pent up, excitement.

I told the caucus, when they, when they got the trifecta, I said, you're going to see the most far left agenda you have ever seen in the caucus.

No, no, no, they they've got too many vulnerable members.

They're not going to, be that aggressive.

I said wait and see.

It was like, an agenda I couldn't believe.

That was so far to the left.

So anti-business, so anti safety.

That bill after bill after bill, all of these bills all voted for it, Winnie voted for it.

Some would argue actually though that the first six month there was, there was movement.

But then after that it was actually not much got done.

I was going to sa because there was a whole thing with Duggan calling them the do nothing Democrats.

Well, they were I don't I think they lost two votes, I think in that two years.

I can't remember the two, the Detroit, Democrat, Karen Whit.

Said she, sh was held up for a day, and then, the downriver, kind of socialist, Dylan Wiegla.

He was held up for a day, and then they fixed.

Other than those two, I didn't see them ever lose a single vote.

And the House and Senat just rocketing through like a, a rocket ship.

So, no, they they went all the way through for the two years with the most far left agenda I have ever seen in an nation, things that California, had tried and rejected, they were putting through in Michigan.

Senator, are all Democrats, socialists or progressives?

Oh, no.

No, I know there's some, I won't name their names, but there's some.

That would be funner though.

That that are in their caucus, on the Senate side that have told me when that two years was going on.

Jim, this stuff is crazy.

I said, well, why are you voting for it?

Well, the pressure I you know, there's so much pressure to go along.

If you won't name names, give me a number.

How many?

Oh, we're talking th I have a relationship with that would privately tell me that.

We're talking maybe three people.

Now, there may be more, but that's that's three that I had a relationship that would say, Jim this stuff is absolutely crazy.

I oppose it.

This Democratic ticket, however, from Miss Benson on down, you consider to be progressive and socialist?

Oh, I, I don't know how socialist and to in terms of what these Democrats socialists.

I've talked to some of the colleagues over on the Democratic side that said, My God, Jim, this is crazy.

I can't wait to get out of here and be done with the party, because what I'm seeing with these Democrats, socialists.

So I'm not saying all of the certainly are not in agreement with it.

Well, is, Miss Benson, how would you describe her?

I think she, has got a lot to account for.

I think that, there is so much that she has done with the elections.

I believe it was 11 time that she went before the courts and was overturned for doing thing that are illegal, mass mailing all the ballot applications to 7.4 million people.

That's not even legal to do.

I debated her when she ran for office, and she and I said, we need ID.

She said, we don't need ID.

We have something safer, something better.

It's the signature.

We have this signature.

What did she do when she mass mailed the 7.4 million valid applications?

The only way you know when those come back is the signature, she told the clerks.

Don't worry about check the signature.

Oh, she's got a lot to account for.

But she's not a socialist?

I don't know how she defines herself.

I have not heard he define herself as a socialist.

But Abdul is a socialist.

But, Benson, we're not sure yet.

And they're running an ad tha says they are both socialists.

She may be.

I'll have to look into.

Well wait a second, you've been watching her for eight years, Senator?

Oh, there's so many things that Democrats could do that you could certainly define as a socialist, but you'd have to parse it out.

I would have to pass it out and go through what?

What is her philosophy?

What is her belief?

I mean, when you're talking about the Democrats power in control, which is what I see their philosophy mostly being in Lansing, it's just a matter of degree.

How far degree are you going t go into controlling the people, controlling the economy, to be defined as a socialist.

I'd like to return to the U.S.

Senate race for a second regarding, Mister Rogers, excuse me.

It's he's he's trying to start basically a movement.

I was saying Democrats for Rogers with the nomination of, Mr.

El-Sayed, you know, we've spent the last several minutes of this program talking about how Democrats are radical and they've done bad while thei time in office they've wasted.

How do you square trying to court Democrats while also trying to maintain the base of Republican voters that you have who are fervently pro-Trump and do see these thing that Democrats are doing as bad?

How do you how do you square that?

Because the the Republicans out there who believe in smaller, more limited government are going to continue to support the party.

That's what they support.

I was at a fundraise for Mike Rogers yesterday, and, I met a Jewish gentleman who is a lifelong Democrat, and he said, oh, there's there's Jew all over here who are Democrats.

So he went introduced me to all of these, Jewish Democrats who have never given a penny, who have never voted for Democrats in their entire life.

But he said that this radical, El-Sayed is so dangerous to our community that we are going to do everything we can do to get Mike Rogers elected.

So it's not a matter of there's a division that we've got to, you know, mesh these two together.

They each have their own set of interests of why they believe that Mike Rogers is the best candidate.

You talked about fundraising.

Let's talk a little bit about money in the AG and secretary of state race.

The Democrats have way more money than the Republicans have In the AG and secretary of State race, how concerned are you about that?

Well, I just talked to Tony Forlini yesterday about that.

And we're going to get him in front of some of the bigger donor here in the state of Michigan.

I feel we will definitely be catching up and even exceeding where they're at.

The money they're getting is from the unions and from Actblue, which is their national organization that sends in dollar amounts, which, a lot of allegations that the big donors are feeding that into the smaller, donors in orde for that money to come through.

But I feel very confident, as the election goes on, that those numbers are going to equalize.

Mr.

chair, does Mr.

James and Mr.

Rogers have to pivot away from Donald Trump in order to have a shot at winning?

I would say they need to be focused, as they should, on Michigan.

Michigan has an unbelievable set of problems.

And I always like to, to cite where I get statistics.

And this is from the 2026 U.S.

News best states ranking.

Overall, Michigan's 46 out of 50.

Education were 45th.

Higher education were 47th.

Economy were 43rd.

Infrastructure fix the damn roads were 42nd.

Employment were 46th.

Economic activity were 40th.

Economic growth for 49th.

Transportation, infrastructure.

Fix the damn roads, 38th.

So we are in a horrific situation in Michigan.

The focus has got to be o what is it going to take to fix this catastrophe we're facing in Michigan?

So can one conclude that by focusing on Michigan, they should leave Mr.

Trump out of the equation?

I think President Trump is doing his own thing on the national level.

Obviously, if you're the the governor, you should be focused o all of these horrific statistics going on in the state of Michigan.

But does Presiden Trump hurt the ticket right now?

I mean, his his approval ratings are underwater.

The lowest they've been.

I think that, these things come and go.

I remember, when Obama ha absolutely horrendous, ratings.

I've seen presidents where things come and go.

There could be changes in the Middle East that suddenly now we have a completely different set of numbers.

So I wouldn't be focused right now on those numbers as they modify through time.

These number here in the state of Michigan is what's got to be the focus.

So we are one of the worst in the nation.

If I me piggyback.

So Mr.

Trump is not going to decide this election.

People voting against him when they look at the Republican candidates?

I don't think that they're going to be focused on the president.

I think they'll be focused on all of these issues that I just outlined in Michigan.

And do you believe that most Democrats want to vote against Donald Trump?

Oh, the statistics show they do.

Yeah.

Are there some Republicans are due too?

Some.

But I think it's a very small minority.

Real quick does Jay DeBoyer have a problem at convention next weekend?

Not at all.

I, I was surprised, because I didn't know I was hearing all these different names and I didn't know who was going to be.

He has turned out to be a great pick.

Everywher he goes, he's like a superstar.

I have not seen or heard and you check online.

I've not seen a single negative comment about him, which is very unusual.

I mean, the Republican Party's got factions everywhere, but it seems like 100% united behind him.

So.

No, you have no problem.

Senator, good to see you.

Thanks for being on the program.

Have fun at the convention.

Yes, we will.

Okay.

Thank you sir.

Thank you.

Thanks for watching.

Off the record.

See you next week.

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