Michigan senior U.S.

Senator Debbie Stabenow was in the queue with a one on one exchange from the Democratic National Convention.

Our lead story.

How did the governor do at that national convention?

And Donald Trump visits Howell.

Providing their insights this week, Simon Schuster, Clara Hendrickson and Bill Ballenger sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible, in part by Martin Way Meyer, a full service strategic communications agency, partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martiwaymire.com And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick Thank very much.

Welcome back to Off the Record from Studio C. Well the Democrats put the ribbon on the thing last night.

So how did Miss Harris' speech play in Michigan, do you think, Clara?

Well, I mean, we will see sort of what the coming weeks hold for her campaign in Michigan.

Obviously, the poll numbers have been looking really good for her since Biden dropped out of the race and she launched this last minute campaign.

I think the big question for her in Michigan, while we saw on the DNC stage Democratic unity, there are Democratic fissures, especially over U.S. foreign policy and what's happening in Gaza.

And you saw a lot of the uncommitted delegates feeling very frustrated that they were denied their requests by the DNC to ge a Palestinian-American on stage.

They're continuing to make demands of Harris and try and make the case that she still has more to do to win over critical demographic groups if she wants to win Michigan.

Yeah, I think that, you know, our day and age is not many slang terms that are more over used than vibes.

But I think that this speech was really about that.

It was sort of a bundle of sentiments.

It wasn't like a dirge of all these different policy plans that you have.

And the thing about Donald Trump is that you have the voters in general have a set perception and definition of who he is that's pretty much locked in from now until November.

But I don't think the same is true of Kamala Harris.

And I think that what we're going to see in Michigan over the next few months is a battle to try and define who she is and what she stands for.

Because the speech last night didn't really offer in concrete terms what those policies with those portfolio policies are.

Her critics will say, yeah, how are you going to get all this done?

But this is not a State of the Union address.

Right.

Right.

I mean, she didn't want to go into detail at the Democratic National Convention in her speech.

But I think Simon is right.

People are waiting here in Michigan for the details and answering questions on the issues.

I think her speech actually, you know, was very positiv for Michigan voters last night.

I think she probably made a good impact.

She's threadin the needle on Gaza with support for Israel and sympathy with the Palestinians.

But she talked in very broad terms, platitudes.

And I think, as Simon indicated, we're going to have to get answers from her about some of these key issues like EVs here in Michigan between now and November.

Look at thi was not a speech to the choir.

In fact, I did a cursory look at the transcript.

I saw the word Democrat only one time.

Now, if somebody if it's more than one, correc me and I will stand corrected.

But my point is they didn't need to preach to the choir.

They had those people in the hall.

This was a speech to the middle class, to the undecided, to the moderate voters.

And as you're about to hear from Gretchen Whitmer, a strong contrast with the other guy from the other party is, quote, not one of us.

Let's liste to what the governor had to say.

Donald Trump doesn't know you at all.

You think he understand that when your car breaks down, you can't get to work?

No.

His first word was probably chauffeur.

But Kamala Harris, she gets us.

She sees us.

She is us.

SIMON What did you mak of the governor as a little four and a half minute foray on the national stage, which, by the way, on the closing night of a gig, says something, does it not?

They could have stuffed her in on Monday night, but she got the Thursday night slot.

Go ahead.

It definitely I think being i the final chapter means a lot.

And I think that this was an opportunity for national partners to try and use as a cudgel her strengths, you know, being at least appearing relatable, her affability, her sort of quick wit, all these things were in full force in the speech.

But at the same time, when you're on a podium in front of 15,000 people, you're not going to have sort of that retail politics, that sort of glint that's going to work.

So well on a smaller scale that does as governor.

And so I don't know necessarily how well that translated.

I mean, I think you hit the nail on the hea with the timing of this speech.

Like for us here in Michigan, we thought Whitmer' national star had risen in 2020.

She is continuing to rise and make a name for herself nationally.

This book tour appears to have been a tremendous success for her.

People are talking about her.

And, you know, there was a lot of speculation about whether or not she might be in the running to join Harris on the ticket, but she's sort of now in her sweet spot as a campaigner for Democrats, and that's what she's going to be focused on until November.

Not just Whitmer, but Michigan.

I mean, it was a big night for Michigan last night.

On the final night, you had Chris Swanson the sheriff of Genesee County.

You had Elissa Slotkin.

You had Whitmer a couple of nights ago.

You had State Senator Mallory McMorrow.

Now, seriously.

Who would have guessed some of those people would have ever been speaking at the Democratic National Convention?

It shows you how important Michigan is, and they are really keyed in on Michigan.

This was a sort of open audition to who wants to be governor.

Well, that could be part of a true.

That's true.

Swanson himself is that' the one that surprised overtly.

You know, I wan to know what his connection was to get on that stage.

Well, he is aggressive, but I got to say, he's actually a perfect person for them to get to speak to.

What he spoke on for two and a half minutes about how he threw down his gear and marched with the rioters in Flint in the wake of the George Floyd murder.

And then his denouncement which is on the TV ad right now, playing all over the plac of the January six insurrection at the state capitol, sayin anybody who would preside over that is not fit to be president.

So he yoked it together and he's a perfect guy to do that.

Yeah I couldn't agree more with Bill.

I mean, he's the perfect person to thread that needle.

He's on one side advocating social justice and the other side talking about how he's a strong law enforcement officer.

I think you see this other work elsewhere in the program, given that they had a Border Patrol agent on stage.

And when you look at this push and pull again, this is part of that fight to define what Kamala Harris is about.

She wants to be about both things.

And they have a guy who can provide both.

But in terms of how far are they going to be able to drive that message home, it's really up in the air.

I thought the use of the mother was was really good.

Everybody has a mother, right?

Okay.

Everybody learn something from their mother.

And she began with that and she brought that back up in the speech afterwards, which is a common thread that we all have.

All our moms have influenced us.

And I think that was a way for her to touch people that with all due respect to Mr. Trump, can you remember hi talking about his mother at all?

He never has.

You know, so that's a contrast.

It's an I thought it was a nice entre into that entree to the people.

Here's something we have in common.

Sure.

And as you mentioned, there's sort of like a deep politicizatio theme of this entire convention where we didn't hear Democrats really talk about Democrats all that much.

Instead, we saw maybe a record number of Republicans on the stage of the DNC saying, if you vote for Harris, you're not voting for a Democrat.

You're doing the patriotic thing.

You're voting for democracy and really trying to flip th script on this freedom message and talking about where the party of real freedom is.

So even Harris, in her speech, you know, played down some of the hot button issues that the progressive left would like to hear, like climate change and forgiving student debt.

She just gave that lip service and she went on to lots of themes that really reach out to the middle, to the independents, to the ticke splitters who she needs to win.

And as somebody pointed out, for the first time, a ban on the death penalty wa not in the Democratic platform.

That's not a that's not a showstopper.

Okay.

But it is an indicator.

Well in the meantime, Donald Trump.

Well, the folks are in chi-town.

He's in Howell.

Yeah.

And obviously, this appearance is sort of counterprogramming, looking to hold a media conference of sorts, although he only took one question that was shouted from the crowd as he was leaving, trying to figure, I thought this was billed as a news conference.

It was ostensibly, of course, but he gave remarks that were really reminiscent of any standard Donald Trump rally for close to an hour and then walked away and he gave a one on one interviews on the side afterwards with a couple of reporters.

But that was it.

I think that this was just an opportunity for him to show a contrasting message and attempt to paint Kamala Harris a defund the police candidate where she said he wants to, quote, refund the police.

Well, the Republicans are back on the issue.

She's a liberal.

Okay.

Haven't they tried that message before on other candidates running for president?

Well, they have, but they have to do it with Harris because she's got that background as she's a San Francisco liberal you know, still liberal.

And, you know, she stood for a lot of things when she was running for president in 2020 that they're tryin to hold her accountable for now.

You know, I think back to what Clara was saying about the de- politicization of the DNC.

This is really an attempt, I think, by Democrats to continue that narrative ar from the 2020 election season, that although we've had this, you know, interregnum of hyper polarization continuing along this trend that we've seen since the ascendancy of Donald Trump, they want to make this Democrats about a battle for the soul of the nation.

And this is about core values.

It's not so much about a liberal or progressive policy portfolio, even though that may be the outcom should Kamala Harris be elected.

What I find really curious about Trump's visit not only this week, but just Trump campaign visits this year, they're repeatedly trying to make crim a central issue in this election when if you look at the polls, that is not what is top of mind for voters right now.

I took a look at the New York Times Siena College poll that just came out.

Less than 1% of voters in Michigan said that it was a top issue for them.

So instead you have the economy, abortion and immigration and what the campaign that Trump is running is trying to do is tie immigration to crime.

I don't know if it's quite landing in Michigan, but that does seem to be the strategy that they're taking on right now.

Republicans have gone to Mr. Trump and told him to get off the negative stuff about he is am I hearing that correctly?

Well, supposedly they are going to him, but has he ever really listened t anybody but his own inner voice?

That's the real question.

I mean, people ad nausea for nine years have been saying Trump should be doing this rather than what he does, but he always does what he wants to do.

Did he take her on in the meeting in Howell?

Yeah, of course.

I mean, this is I mean, that is his attempt, Right.

And I think that's the struggle for Republicans is they have to try to define her character as somebody who is very liberal and very progressive.

And he went to lengths, again, speaking that she was a defund the police candidate.

He said if Kamala Harris is elected to office, that all auto jobs in the state of Michigan are going to be gone within three years.

And of course, when you look a a later Republican event about, you know, the battl over this Gotion battery plant, held later in the week, it's sort of the it's a counterfactual to what he's saying because this is an attempt to resist th the on-shoring of manufacturing for electric vehicles because of its ties to China.

Well, if you missed him and Howell you can pick him up in Detroit on Monday.

Yeah.

You know, three more visits.

He's going to have to pay the nonresident income tax.

I mean, this guy is this is amazing.

It really is, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, he is here frequently.

Maybe we'll see him even more frequently heading into November.

But what I find really interesting about this phase of the campaign, it does seem to be more emphasis on counter-programming.

These smaller, more intimate events.

Obviously, there was that big rally in Grand Rapids right after the assassination attempt.

But, you know, as Dems have really had this big spotlight on them on the national stage, smaller events by Vance and Trump in Michigan lately.

Yes.

I think one of the struggles that Donald Trump has had, especially in Michigan, is that there was an a momentous, momentous historical event, an assassination attempt against a former president while campaigning for the office again.

And the fact that that had and was not able to fundamentally shif the narrative of this election sort of shows just how successfully Democrats were able to reset the script with the bowing out of President Joe Biden.

Well, it turned out t be maybe about a two week story.

Okay.

Which is just amazing.

You know, years ago, the assassination attempt on a major candidate would have hogge the headlines for weeks on end.

Yeah.

Look, we've had so many twists and turns already this year.

Honestly, it makes you wonder what might happen in the next month or two months.

I had an opportunity to speak and pivot towards a unity message, and that lasted maybe five days.

All right.

As we have done in the past, we had Mr. Runestad state senator on right after the Republican convention.

So we did earlier this week before all the events of last night, a one on one with Debbie Stabenow from the convention.

And also just ahead the headline to you, we're trying to do Tudor Dixon from the Trump campaign to be on off the record.

Hopefully, we'll be able to nail that down in the next couple of weeks.

But right now, here's our exchange with the senior senator from Michigan at her last Democratic Convention.

Debbie Stabenow React to me, to the words that he's some of the words he's using to describe Ms. Harris.

What?

What the the words he's using?

What the the words he's using?

I don't know.

It's offensive.

Laughable.

You know, I can tell you, as a woman who has been involve in politics and elected office a long, long time, you know part of this is not surprising.

It's not going to stick.

It's not going to stick.

Women find it offensive.

I don't know how many differen ways he wants to offend women.

You know, first he takes away our reproductive freedom and now they're talking about denying people the ability to have children through IVF or control birth control or the, you know, Project 2025 includes tracking women who are pregnant and their doctors.

I mean, so I don't know.

I don't know how many or or you know, childless cat ladies with JD, it' just one thing after another and they're going to find out that women are going to vote.

And I believe that women are going to overwhelmingly support Kamala Harris and mak her our first woman president.

You are a lifelong student of this process.

Given the fact that women, one vote in larger numbers than men and women do pay attention.

Do you find it curious that they would go down this road?

I don't know.

I mean, I think what we're seeing is a combination of aging and increased instability.

And I don't know.

I mean, I just it makes absolutely no sens that Donald Trump is doing this.

But there's a whole range o things, attacking our veterans over and over and over again.

And and the disrespect, you know, that he has for veterans, that disrespect that he ha for women, that it just goes on.

And so I think people are tired of it.

You know, we want to go forward.

People are exhausted with all of his antics.

It's all about him just getting attention for him, saying something crazy and outrageous so that people will pay attention to him.

And we're exhausted.

We're tired.

And Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are about moving us forward with smiles on our faces and joy and, you know, actually working together with people.

And I find overwhelmingly that's what people want.

Okay.

Well just one more question on this.

You used the word instability.

What does that mean in your mind?

Well, I think this is somebody that has a lot of issues.

I mean, you know, this i I think he's extremely unstable, mentally unstable, and it doesn't take rocket science to see that.

So it is unfortunate that he's been able to participate in and I believe hurt so many people in this process over the years.

But I think there's serious issues there.

All right.

On the issue of EVs, doe the vice president does the vice president candidat need to walk back some of those?

What's the word?

I'm looking for goals of EVs, given that it's now become a political issue.

Will you concede that it is a political issue now?

Well, first, let me say, as somebody who drives a Bolt EV made in Lake Orion, Michigan and hasn't gone to a gas station two and a half years, you know, I love my EV.

And it's also something I kno that is helping to keep carbon out of the atmosphere, which affects our weathe and everything else.

Underneath this fight, this political figh is the oil companies, full stop.

I mean, they are desperate to slow down people's desire to have an EV because they know once people understand that we can have clean energy, not go to the gas station and, you know, have another way to be able to have transportation, that they're sunk and they've spent 50, 60 years trying to convince us that the carbon crisis isn't real and that, you know, that we should all be driving their vehicles.

And certainly we're proud we've made them in Michigan.

I'm very proud we have the best workforce in the worl and our companies are the best.

But it' now time to move to the future.

It's about clean energy.

We're making those vehicles in Michigan.

And I think this politics behind what Republicans are saying is is bought and paid for by the oil companies who have everything to lose.

If we all decide that we'r going to buy an electric vehicle All right.

Well, if that is the case, however, the question still is on the table.

Does Ms. Harris need to walk this back at least before the election to appeal to some of those UAW workers who have been told your job is toast if more EVs are sold?

I believ we need to keep going forward.

I believe that Kamala Harris needs to keep moving forward on clean energy.

We're making those EVs.

We heard the same thing from Shawn Fanning, the head of the UAW, embracing the future.

We just want those battery plants in Michigan.

We want them in the United States.

That's what all of the efforts have gone to do, make sure we're making the component parts and the reality is this.

China's making EVs and we can either let them sell in our market and take over the future, or we can make those automobiles and take over in the future.

So our strategy is to make sure we're making those component parts in the United States, that we're paying people good union wages, that we're opening more plants.

44 so far in Michigan, and that we're embracing the future because putting our head in the sand is not going to mean we have more jobs.

It means we're going to have fewer jobs.

But but Ford itself has rolled back EV the plant in Marshall, same plant that they proposed a couple years ago.

And it appears that they are moving more towards hybrid rather than the EVs.

Am I reading that incorrectly?

What we are seeing is a major push to have consumers not feel confiden in EVs isn't having an impact.

Yes, it's having some impact.

I mean, there are a number of things that we should be more robust on.

The consumer credit for EVs ended up being much more complicated than it should be because it was writte by somebody who supports the oil companies, essentially.

And so it is not, it's understandable that they would be reassessing how quickly to get to EVs.

But I can tell you that if we do not embrace the future of clean energy, we're still going to see those automobiles in the United States.

People are going to be driving them, but they're going to be Chinese made.

And I think that would be a disaster for us.

Do do yo agree that that they autos have a right to slow this down or does that bother you?

I think the autos have t assess the current marketplace.

I have confidence is they confidence as they are doing that.

I think for all of us as policymakers, we need to make sure that we are providing the incentives which we are for producing batteries in the United States and other component parts.

We need to do what we can to help encourage with which we are doing with more charging stations.

And it's getting better all the time.

A lot more to do.

I mean, it's different for us and there's more to do.

But I can tell you, two and a half years ago when I drove my vehicle from Michigan to DC, it was hard in Pennsylvani to find any charging stations.

I drove it back a couple of weeks ago and it was very different.

So things are getting better and the more that people understand that it's easy to charge, mor charging stations are available.

And, you know, we make it clear that, you know these are affordable vehicles.

People will buy them, but th companies and the private sector have to assess the markets as we go along.

What's the significance of Mr. Trump coming to Howell given its history in the past?

Well, I think it's, first of all, disgusting that when he's in Michigan last week in Grand Rapids and I'm sure the saying will be and how they are white supremacists were marching and yelling, We love Hitler, we love Trump.

I mean, that should be enough to stop anybody from supporting him because h now he wants to be a dictator.

Day one.

He wants to be a dictator day to day three, day four all the way along.

I feel very bad for the city of Howell, who that's a wonderfu community, has tried for decades and has in fact, go beyond the fact that years ago the head of the KKK was in the The larger Howell area.

And they work so hard.

And it's a beautiful community.

And I think it's terrible that he's coming to Howell and all this gets dragged up again as yo look at this ticket, which does apparently have some momentum What scares you at this moment?

I think at this moment, I rather than fear, I have excitement.

And I just know Michigan's always difficult.

So we just have to put our heads down and we have to work hard and run through the tape.

We have 50 offices in Michigan, maybe more than any other state we do year round efforts.

I started it years ago.

What we call our one campaign.

We were up earlier than almost any state in organizing, and we transferred that from President Biden to Vice President Harris seamlessly.

And so I just think it's there's always something unseen and unforeseen that happens.

And so it's how you handle whatever that is.

But right now, when we look at the polls, we look at the energy one, we look at the fact that peopl are breathing a sigh of relief because they want to move forward and stop the negativ stop hearing from Donald Trump, who says we hav the worst country in the world and the worst people in there that I mean, that everybody is, you know, everything is horrible, horrible, horrible.

Well, I don't think everything's horrible, horrible, horrible.

I'm proud to be an American.

And I think people are ready to move forward.

Can you promise that the mistakes of 2016 will not be repeated and there were mistakes, correct?

Well, I would just tell you that we have an incredibly smart team.

And so far, you know, every the madam, Madam Senator, the Clinton people said they were smart, too.

I'm not going to relitigate 2016.

I would just tell you that what we have are folks who are have learned from the past that a lot of ways, not just 2016. they're present, they're in Michigan, and they're coming back to Michigan.

We have someone on the ticket in Coach Walz who is a midwesterner.

He knows where the Great Lakes are.

He's excited about Michigan and I think understands Michigan.

You have a tinge of melancholy, this being your last convention.

You know, I am so glad to be here.

I've been to many conventions and I think throughout the year there's a little bit of melancholy going on, and I don't regret my decision anyway.

And Elissa Slotkin will be an outstanding U.S. senator.

I'm really looking forward to passing the torch to her.

But certainly, you know, these are special moments for me.

Senator, always great to talk to you.

Thank you.

Take care.

Our thanks to Senator Stabenow.

Always good to see her.

And thanks to you for watching off the record and our great panel.

More of the same right here next week.

See you then.

Production of Off the Record is made possible, in part, by Martin Waymire, a full service strategic communications agency, partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martinwaymire.com For more off the record, visit WKAR.org.

Michigan public television stations have contributed to the production costs of off the record.