Michigan Republican held their convention last week.

Democrats are in town this weekend with party chair Curtis Hertel.

He's up next.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

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And now, this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to studio C, another edition of Off the Record.

Well, if you like conventions we got lots of convention talk.

The Republicans met last week.

And what was the lead out of that thing?

I think the lead was that there wasn't much drama out of out of that convention.

And I think that's not a given these days.

With any convention out there.

And so I proceeded pretty normal.

You know, this was just to cement their candidates for the November ballot.

There was enthusiasm among those there for for those who were nominated.

And, and yeah they've got their slate ready to go now.

What did you make of it?

I mean.

Calm.

Not the most interesting convention, which is.

Have a Republican convention and be calm.

Well, it helps when you've been out of power for eight years.

I think that's the usually the driving force i when you've been out of power, you're focused on, the other side less than the internal, struggle.

And so I think that's part of what was going on.

I mean, we saw that with the people they chose at the endorsement convention earlier this year.

They went with, people who are more considered conventionally electable.

The Macomb County clerk, a county prosecutor.

There were other candidates that were more of the MAGA style, bomb thrower types that did not win this time.

So I think you know when you've been out of power, you're focused on trying to win.

Was Donald Trump the centerpiece of this convention?

I mean, I think that anytime you have Republicans gathering in the post-Trump era that Donald Trump is going to be a major factor playing there.

It took him an hour and 40 minutes to mention his name.

I mean, again, this is part o also the sprint to the center.

You know, Michigan is a purple state.

At the end of the day.

As we watched Michigan voted for Trump twice.

But at the same time, he's underwater here in terms of popularity.

And so you spent a primary tying yourself to Trump as if he's a tree and a hurricane.

You're going to need to at least do something to show yourself as an independent voice, too.

So did they do that pivot, or was it a fake pivot?

You know, I'm going to do a jump shot, but I'm going to pass it off.

Well, you know, there are definitely I mean, from on stage there were maybe 1 or 2 people who mentioned Trump's name, the entire the entire convention.

But, you know, the crowd was filled with MAGA hats and and people who are loyal to Trump.

I don't think they're trying to to divorce themselves completely from that.

But I think, yeah, this is the the post-primary pivot where they're trying to, win over Michigan's independent voters are starting to to you know, attempt to them over and, they have to do that with a more centrist message.

And right now, Trump is not incr in part because o gas prices and high inflation.

And so I think that something that they're trying to distance themselves from right now.

I think they have a problem with the the president's approval numbers are terrible, absolutely terrible.

It is the second midterm for him.

Every time there's ever been an election where he is not on the ballot, but he is in the white House.

It has, that's competitive.

It has gone very poorly for them that the environment is really bad.

And so I don't think anybody, like I've said, I mean, this is a Trump crowd.

I mean, let's not pretend otherwise.

But I think from a messaging standpoint, I think we've seen it pretty clearly.

Michigan Republicans are going to try to emphasize Michigan issues.

They're going to try to emphasize change from Governor Whitmer.

They're going to try to emphasize we're going to work on things to make Michigan better.

Please don't pay attention t the person in the white House.

That is a very difficult line to walk.

Well, their message is going to be everybody with a D after the name is a socialist and a communist is not going to be the line?

Well, I mean, that's part of it, right?

There's the attack lin that you said everyone with a D after the name is a socialist and a communist can go after the progressives in you know, there's been polling that shows Americans don't necessarily especially young Americans don't see the term socialis as the dirty word it used to be.

So that's wh you got to call him a communist.

Now, at the same time, you've seen a lot of, Republican messaging talking about affordability, you know, talking about livability, you talking about Michigan to be a better place to raise your kids.

You know, a lot of thing that we've also heard, you know, that on the surfac seem like nonpartizan messaging that, you know, for example you think of the New York City race, you know, Zohran Mamdani that was a major part of his campaign, affordability.

You're seeing that same type of messaging coming from republicans.

Different starting points, different angles of how to get it done.

But they seem to thin that's also a winning message.

All right.

So, Beth, the legislature was at leas the House was back in session.

And Matt Hall ran a piece of legislation this week.

And what was going on there?

Yeah.

So he, hit the Republican led House, adopted the, Michiganders from mone out of politics ballot proposal, which would bar campaign contributions from state regulated utilities, among other things.

And so his his caucus and som Democrats adopted that measure.

But of course, they also need Senate, the Senate to also adopt that measure if it were to be put into law instead of going to the November ballot.

Senator, Senate Majority leader, Winnie Brinks, said no dice.

She's not taking it up.

And so now it looks poised t appear on the November ballot.

So it's it's going to be interesting, which is what the folks who put together the petition really want it.

They want it to appear on the November ballot.

Which is why Mrs.

Brinks said I'm not going to take this up.

But Mr.

Hall is saying?

Well so like there's two pieces here.

One is if it passes at the ballot, Michigan Constitutio says to amend it in the future, you need a three quarters majority in the House and Senate.

It's almost impossible to get three quarters majorities.

However, if the legislature had adopted it, then it's just a simple majority to amend it in the future.

So that's part of what's going on.

Matt Hall is very canny whe it comes to political messaging.

And right now, the Republicans, his candidates for House in competitive districts, are running a series of ads that talk about getting money out of money, out of politics, money in your pocket, that kind of thing.

It's sort of like not exactly the same, but echoing the messaging of Michiganders for money out of politics.

And, Abdul El-Sayed and I think he saw here's a chance for a free vote for my members who are under the gun.

They can say, look, I voted t take big money out of politics.

And he knew, I think, that the Senate wasn't actually going to act.

So like I said, it was a a free vote.

And he got to mak the Democrats squirm for a day.

Well, he has some Democrats now on record voting no against taking money.

Yeah.

Well, nobody who I think like is actually in a difficult situation.

But there was consternation that the money out of politics, people were and other Democrats were critica of the Democrats who voted yes.

The Democrats voted yes was like, hey, look, this doesn't mean anything.

We're just trying to make sure we're showing the public we're not.

We don't want the public to be confused and think we're we're for money and politics.

So it was it was a moment for Hall to foment a little bit of chaos, which he likes to do.

That's exactly what that was.

It was a little bit of chaos here.

You know, Hall has gon on during his press conferences.

He often calls himself a Lansing outsider, despite being in politics for a long time in Michigan.

I'm a reformer.

I'm a reformer.

Exactly.

But he also talks about how, you know, some of the big utilities have also opposed his candidacies in the past.

And so this is, again, like Zach said, a chance for his members to take a free vote for the Democrats that voted yes.

It was also a chance for them to take a free vote, too, because Brinks said before the vote that she wouldn't push this forward.

But it does give this idea that, you know, it kind of harkens back to some of the, I guess, political games we saw years ago around adopt and amend where, you know, this time around, Hall's not saying he wants to change it.

He said that, you know, the idea is if you pass it, you gotta own up to it or you gotta own up it up to changing it to voters.

But at the end of the day, it was a moment where none of this really mattered, but it felt like it mattered.

Welcome to the Michigan Legislature, right?

If anything encapsulates the last two years section.

Righ and all the government teachers right now that are watching said no, don't say that.

But that's the harsh reality.

Sometimes it is.

All right.

So we had another ballot proposal that was in The Grinder.

Yeah.

So earlier this week, the Board of State Canvassers deadlocked on, another ballot initiativ that would require citizenship, proof of citizenship, citizenship in order to vote and voter photo ID for voters.

They deadlocked on it, which means it can advance to the November ballot.

And yesterday, the group sponsoring the proposal filed suit, saying they should have accepted it.

We had affidavits attesting to to the signatures that we submitted.

We should have been ove the threshold for for clearing, you know, th the needed number of signatures.

So now it is in the Michigan Supreme Court's hands.

And?

Well, the Michigan Supreme Court, although not necessarily with this group of justices, has a long track record of saying, we're going to let the voters decide here.

And, you know, they needed they use this complicated sampling model.

They don't actuall look at all 709,000 signatures that were turned in.

They pull a thousand, they needed to have 629 be valid.

They had 626.

It's really close.

I would be mildly surprised if this is not on the ballot, given how the Supreme Court has approached this.

They look at the beginning of the Michigan Constitution.

It says all powers in here and the people, are we really going to get into like Uber technical, granular stuff when it appears they have a good case?

Maybe we should just let the voters decide this.

Wouldn't you assume that the attorneys for the MMOP people will say, ladies and gentlemen of the Supreme Court, there was a moment in time las Monday in this marathon session where two of the D's were a yes vote.

They went to lunch and came back and they were a no vote.

We'd like to know what went on in that time period.

Yeah, I think even more so than what's going on in that time period.

I think the bigger issue here is, you know, for some of the rejected affidavits that were going to carry these signatures, all of everyone on the panel agreed those would have been valid signatures if those affidavits returned in sooner.

And so, you know, there was any number of angles in which, there's any number of angles and many arguments that, Americans from citizen voting is making in this case.

But I think the heart of it comes back down to everyone agrees the signatures should have been counted and should have been, or would have counted and would have been valid, and that there likely were enough valid signatures in that sample is just a matter of process.

And I think when it comes down to process versus the voters decide, I think the Supreme Court I wouldn't be surprised either if it aired on the side of letting the voters decide.

All right, let's call in the Chair of the Democratic Party, Curtis Hertel.

Welcome back to Off the Record its good to see you.

You currently, currently believe that your party is united.

And so if indeed your party is united, why did you waste any time sending a letter to them to behave when they show up in town on Saturday?

Well, first of all I think that the national media and maybe some people at this tabl thought that Democrats wouldn't come together after the primary.

I think that the unity breakfasts that we had where Haley Stevens and, Abdul El-Sayed, hugged.

I think that picture is worth a thousand words.

And when I travel around the state and I was up in the U.P.

and 16 counties over four days, Democrats are united and ready to go to work.

And they, are upset about what's happening in this country.

All the candidates signed a letter because obviously, we believe that people should follow the rules.

And I think that's a reasonable thing to ask people before any convention.

If you've got a united party, everybody should be following the rules.

I don't know if that's exactly how that works, Tim, but I but like, I, I think the letter was important.

I'm glad that we sent it and we're going to hav a united and, good convention.

You've got some pretty big names though that are, are vocally concerned.

Attorney General Dana Nessel Congresswoman Hillary Scholtlen I put Senator Jeremy Moss in that group, the Oakland County prosecutor, Karen McDonald.

I mean, these are big name that are voicing distress about, whether it's the the ticket, whether it's the tone of the party, what are what is going on?

I mean, this is really unusual to see this kind of this kind of commentary.

Listen.

The Democratic Party is a big tent while Republican fall in line with Donald Trump over and over again.

And they're all on the same side.

Democrats, have to bring a coalition together in to win election.

I think the vast majority of that coalition is united in believing that Donald Trump lied to people in Michigan to get elected.

He said that, wages would go up, that costs would go down.

There'd be no more foreign wars, that the Epstein files would be released.

All of that's been nonsense.

And people are angry.

And I think if you look at the polling or the fact that 1.5 million Democrats showed up in the primary and 600,000 more than Republicans, what you would se is that the people, the people themselves are ready to, take this country back.

And so, I think those things, at the end of the day, wil will be the winning message in, trying to solve the problems that are having a people's kitchen table is what we should be focused on.

Do you what do you make of the Democrats for for Mike Rogers groups?

I mean, the county.

I mean Karen Whittsett is not a Democrat.

I mean, I mean, like, I mean, you know, I mean, she had a she hasn't had van in more than two years after she had fundraisers with Matt Hall.

She hasn't shown up to work.

I'm glad she could get a dog sitter for the press conference, but you know that was the reason why she couldn't actually be there.

She renounced her Democratic Party status, early this year, and I said good riddance.

So, you know, I mean, she hasn't been a Democrat for a very long time, and, I don't think she's a real Democrat.

Do you think that grou is confined to Karen Whittsett?

I mean, she's one that has a pack, apparently.

Now.

I mean, there'll be one more grifter in the Republican Party.

That'll be great.

There's going to be a. I guess I'm wondering about the difference.

You see, between this convention and what we saw from Democrats in April in Detroit.

You know, that wa there was a lot at stake there.

You know, you saw progressives have a very big night there.

Now that party ticket's more set.

I think there's maybe you know, it's a smaller venue.

There's less motivation for some of the more, I guess, voca parts of the party to show up.

What's going to be the difference in terms of the crowd here on Saturday versus then?

Yeah, I mean, these conventions have always been smaller, for the nominating convention because, the, the, the decisions are, are largely made.

I mean, at the end of the day, we have our candidates.

This is a celebration of our candidates that, organizing, drive.

I mean, I think we're much more organized than the Republicans are.

We have more than 20 offices across the state.

The Republicans.

They dont even have an office in Lansing anymore.

They had to sell it.

So I think that the convention is going to be about, the message that we're using to unify, people across the state.

Mrs.

Nessel said she's a free to attend.?

I have enormous amount of respect for the attorney general.

You know, I think that we wouldn't be a safe, against Donald Trump if it wasn't for Dana Nessel, in.

But speak to her concern.

We're going to have a safe convention.

I mean, like the, we've taken the steps that are necessary to have, good quality, secure, good security there.

And I think we're gonna have a united front there.

And I hope, Dana, I hop the attorney general will come.

I said, what are your safety?

What are the safety devices you've got in place?

We have, w have security as you go through.

There are, we have magazines at every entrance.

I think it's important, in these times to make sure that, people are protected.

We have security on site.

We've certainly increased security.

But again, I think that this is I think that when you look at what is happening in the Democratic Party right now, people are united up against what's happening in this country.

And we have, a good, I think we have a good convention.

We do have law enforcement that will be on site.

Yeah, there's law enforcement at every convention.

Okay.

And who are those people that private guards, or are they the local sherif or who are the law enforcement?

Yeah.

I mean, I there are law enforcement officials that represent, the area that we're in.

So we're in Lansing.

So it will be LPD.

Okay.

So if somebody disrupts the the convention on the floor, are you going to escort them out and arrest them?

If they break the rules?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, people are allowed.

We live in a country wher people have a right to protest, but if they if they violate the the code of conduct, then absolutely.

One of your predecessors, Lon Johnson, has asked you to take actions against some party members for their their conduct at the April endorsement convention.

He's kind of seems a little, you know, pretty unhappy wit how you've handled the request.

What's the status of all that that?

Lons was about the students that, have been in, indicted and, because of actions that ha nothing to do with convention, but, I, we have, we have got confirmation, that, we have asked that those people don't attend party events moving forward, and they have agreed.

So those people will not be at our convention.

There's a lot of candidates running, I guess, either from the left flank of the party or this is the first time they've gotten this far in the electoral process.

Or gotten to an electoral stage this big.

Do you think it's time to take some of those folks in the room and, you know, take them, put them under your shoulder and say, hey, this is how you wi in Democratic primary.

Congrats.

But this is how you win a state like Michigan.

I think I think what people want right now are fighters.

I think to me, trying to, to mold people into what they should be is probably what the party shouldn't be doing and maybe why we've been why we have lost elections in the past.

I think that when you look at the wide spectrum of what the Democratic Party is whether it was, Abdul El-Sayed, or it was, Elissa Slotkin, both who have won Michigan.

What people are looking for is peopl that want to go and fight back.

That's what they're what th what what's important to them.

And there's reasons for that.

People are hurting at their own kitchen tables.

This president promised people, that the cost will go down.

His first action was get tax cuts for billionaires, and cut health care for every person.

And their ticket is united on one thing, and that's Donald Trump.

Mike Roger and John James have repeatedly said that they support the actions of this president, whether it be tax cuts for billionaires, cutting health care, whether it be tariffs that have raised costs, whether it be a foreign war of choice that has raise the cost of gas and groceries and everything else that we spend money on.

And so, do I think the Democrats should be quiet about that?

Absolutely not.

What we should be talking about is the is the kitchen table issues that people are feeling, the pain that this administration has caused people and democratic solutions to solve it.

And that's the path forward to winning elections.

Part of your problem is part of the debate is what's going on in the Middle East.

I think the Democrats are united at that.

What's what's happening right no in Iran is a war of choice that.

No Im talking about.

You know what I'm talking about here.

Mr.

Piker.

Okay.

And Mr.

El-Sayed, does he have to put more distance?

I don't I don't agree with everything that Hassan Piker says or, or many of the things that that sound like he says, but but Hassan Piker is not on the ballot.

What's on the ballot right now is, is what's happening in America to people.

And if we can't unit against ICE agents in our street murdering Americans, if we can't unite against, a government, the president that is more worried about the drapes in, the, drapes in this new ballroom that he's building versus what' happening to people in America if we can't.

You know, this president promised to be America first.

It's been America last.

The only thing that Americans are getting is a lake named after itself.

The fourth best great lake.

But your problem is the other side is going to use that issu against you and reward you, do.

Your right to him.

They have no interest in talking about what's actually happening in this country.

They have no interest in talking about prices because they don't have an answer for it.

They have no interest in talking about the cost of health care because they don't have an answer for it.

They have no interest in talking about the fac that they promised on day one.

We're we're on day 400 and something on day one, the cost would go down and that's not happened.

They have gone up and has become harder to raise a family in America, and they have no answer for any of that.

So yes, they're going to try all the distractions.

And you know, I'm sure it's interesting for media coverage to focus on.

But what they should be focused on and what we're going to be focused on is actually solving the problems that are happening for American families.

What they are experiencing is, rising cost, higher inflation.

They are experiencing, loss of health care.

And what thi this president has only helped those that are the ric and the haves and billionaires.

That's the difference right now.

And if Democrats, can you can stay united on a message that talks about taking about taking this country back and doing things that are actually gonna fix those problems for Americans.

We will win every election in November.

Chair the thing is, you say, is the media and Republicans focusing on Hassan Piker, but it's also members of your own party of Hillary Scholten asking Abdul El-Sayed to distance himself from it.

You have other people within your party, denouncing it.

I mean, how do you address that?

It's not just republicans.

I think Haley Stevens probabl said it best that people should, stay off the internet, touch the ground and go knock a door and have a discussion with voters.

I traveled across the state, 16 counties last week in the Upper Peninsula, one of the most economically devastated, places in this country, from what the this president has done.

And I get, I get to talk to people who are really hurting because of the policies of this president has created.

And so, yes, there can be lots of discussions about different things and distractions.

We you know, that's what Republicans are going to do.

Are you in any danger of losing the traditional Democratic Jewish vote?

I'm not saying there's not work to do.

So you are in danger of losing it?

No, I said there's work to do.

What's the work to do?

There's work to do.

I you know, I'm going to be at the, the Jewish Caucus on Sunday.

I know that Abdul is going to be there as well.

But, yeah, there's always work to do.

But, I think that that most Jewish Americans, just like every other American understands the threat of what, what this presidency mean and that this, this Senate race can come down to decide whether Donald Trump gets tw more seats on the Supreme Court.

And the last thing I want is for the, for Donald Trump to have two more seats on the Supreme Court.

That would basically make the rest of my lifetim a Donald Trump, Supreme Court.

So so I think they understand the challenges that are in front of us.

Does Abdul El-Sayed need to address his hurt people, hurt people comment regarding the attack on Temple Israel?

That seems to be what's driving a lot of the anger in the Jewish democratic community, to the extent that there are folks in the community that are angry with him.

I think that the, I think that that, Abdul has to have a conversation.

I think that sometimes we say things and we don't realiz how it another person hears us.

And I think that one thing that, we should, we should always try to do is have those conversations in language that people, don't feel lik you are dismissing their pain.

And so, I think Abdul will do that.

And I feel confident that.

Mrs.

Benson has a couple lawsuits against her from people that were in her administration, African-Americans.

What do you make of that?

Is that a problem?

I think at the end of the day, that Jocelyn Benson, has been a fighter for people her entire career that she, started her career working on civil rights, that she has a plan to invest in, Michigan's people and make it better.

And at the end of the day, I think that, again, this election will be about who is going to fight for Michigan families.

This election is going to be about, who is going to lower costs for them, make it easier to raise a family in Michigan.

In America the Republicans have no ideas.

They have all this division and nonsens that they want to put out there.

They have no actual ideas about what's actually going to fix the problems of Michiganders.

And so they can keep focusing on distractions.

Were to focus on actually getting people, the problem solved.

And that's how we win these elections.

Quiclky how are you going to vote on Con-con?

I'm going to be a no.

Okay.

Thank you sir.

Thank you.

Good to see you.

So the Democratic Party.

You think so?

Absolutely.

All right.

Thanks to our panel.

Tune in next week for more off the record, please do.

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