Welcome back to this special, correspondents edition of off the record.

Our lead stories, a major decision on no-fault car insurance and no weapons in the state capitol.

Will there be a pushback on the OTR panel?

Jonathan Oosting, Samantha, Shriber, Jordyn Hermani and Bill Ballenger sit in with us as we get the inside out off.

The Record production of off the Record is made possible in part by Martin waymire, a full-service strategic Communications, agency, partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martin wehmeyer.com.

And now this edition of off the record with Tim skubick, Thank you very much.

Welcome back to off the record from Studio C. I can't remember a time during the dog days of summer when we had such a busy news week, right?

Am I get my correct guys?

Omnibus budget.

Yeah, one after another yeah, one after another was the Supreme Court made some news when the Michigan legislature passed these.

So called no-fault car insurance law, they included a group of people who were getting coverage on their insurance for their catastrophic industry in injuries.

The legislature said we're going to include you in some major Cuts in the Supreme Court said.

No, you art, this was retroactive and it was wrong.

Yeah, that's right.

That's the main question of they're called, like pip benefits.

It's a personal injury protection and what that covers in terms of long-term care.

So there's a group of people who were injured sometimes many years ago and have been, you know, receiving a certain level of care the argument from the state was that the law should apply retroactively and that those people would basically their care is going to be reduced because this the auto insurers would no longer have to reimburse Healthcare Providers.

At the same rates anymore.

What the Supreme Court ruled is that?

No, that's not fair.

These people signed a contract to receive a certain Suite of benefits and that those can't be cut retroactively talking about a little cut either.

We're talking about a 45 percent reduction in benefits, which for some people means actually losing part of their home healthcare and the suit, especially centered on two individuals who had add traumatic brain injuries at some point prior, excuse me to the law change, who claim that?

Yes, their care suffered under this 45% reduction and that they couldn't keep health care workers around to help them do their daily tasks.

And for some people who may, for instance, be bed-bound or a quadriplegic and rely on a healthcare worker to do a total, you know, everything from bathing to feeding.

I mean that's that's that could be life-threatening, 7,000, people affected that by that.

They didn't get the major care that they had that they For now, I was just looking at a 20 2022 report from the Brain Injury Association of Michigan and that showed that nearly 80% of services were lost because of that reimbursement reduction.

And, you know, I think, regardless, if you're someone who highlights the effectiveness of the 2019 reform or you're someone who's heavily critical of it.

If you're an individual going into the state capitol, something that you will see is a quadriplegic patient who a lot of times on their own Diamond energy made their way over.

Were to Lansing, and they look at you and they're just bawling their eyes out saying, you know, I'm losing my at home care, provider who I depend on, and I think, again, regardless of how you feel about that 2019 reform, that is a very powerful image.

Well, the problem was, this was one of the major pieces of the so-called savings that were supposed to be under this program, William, correct.

And look, it's amazing to me, there was also report that came out this week.

That says, Michigan still has the fourth highest insurance rates in the country.

Even when this was supposedly in effect, this provision of the law.

By the way, you know, the Supreme Court basically said the legislature really wasn't very clear and its language about retroactivity.

So we're going to use that as an excuse to say no more retroactivity.

It's only from now going forward, which means if that's the case, the rates are probably going to go up even more, we're going to, you know, be even higher on the charts in terms of salt, look, the bottom line is This so-called vaunted reform, 2019 doesn't seem to have work for anybody.

It's not saving the state.

People were, you know, basically thrown under the bus.

Now, they're resuscitated going forward, but it's still a very bad situation.

I mean, we're back to square one.

Yeah, I mean, it's ambition was to create a culture of flexibility and historic cost savings for Michigan drivers and to make driving more accessible in our state.

And he still have the That in low-income minority majority communities that a lot of individuals are still driving uninsured and when they get into an accident, they don't want to call the cops because they're not driving with insurance.

So it's a question of, you know, while we do have this Michigan Supreme Court ruling, Where Do We Go From Here?

Do we go back to the drawing board and do Democrats have the time to go back to the drawing board?

Well, and how soon are we going to be back here again?

Because a big thing that you just mentioned, this does not apply to individuals moving forward.

So God forbid, I get into a car accident too.

Tomorrow and I'm catastrophically injured.

I would be one of those individuals who would only see a 45%.

I would see a 45 percent reduction in what I would have received.

Had, I been injured prior to 2019 the thing.

That's so puzzling to me about this is that we have a 148 lawmakers with some attorneys.

In both rooms the House and Senate.

How could they miss retroactivity?

How can you take something away?

From a person who signed a contract to get insurance and say, oh, guess what?

It's null and void?

Well, I think to Bill's point, the legislature was Doesn't actually super clear on that point.

I think they didn't want to draw that line in.

They didn't want to say we are trying to make this work interpret it that way, that's not her fault.

So they left some gray area there but to Jordan, Sam's Point, I mean, I think the legislature is going to at least explore doing something again on this that said, it's a super heavy lift.

We know it took decades to get anything done the last time around and do Democrats with their slim majority.

Want to use up their political capital on a very thorny issue.

Well, in the governor was late to the party, okay, she was not really enthusiastic about signing off on what the Republicans did to her and for her allegedly then she claimed it as a Triumph.

Yes, let's not forget that.

So what does she take the lead on this now?

And if not her who the insurance industry?

Did they call in their chips with the Republicans?

I think there's first Paul, there's going to be a push by the people who like the old long wish, it had never been changed to say.

Come on, we got a restore, all the rights of going forward backward in time let's do heavy lift.

Okay that would be I think hospitals have something to say as well.

I mean because this has also been a strain on their resources when we have a healthcare worker shortage because a lot of these catastrophic accident survivors, they're going directly to a hospital to receive care because they're no longer receiving that reimbursement, from their at home provider.

Alright, let's take a look at the Story.

Number 2.

No weapons in the state capital.

What's going on there?

Wow.

How the state capitol commission.

According to the State Attorney General does have the total authority to ban weapons in the Capitol building, and the draft band is very clear.

No, weapons are permitted within the Capitol building and in this case, no means no, indicating that any number of concealed weapons, that state lawmakers have been carrying into the building for years would also be banned.

Some from the commission anticipate, some pushback from some of those lawmakers who are seeing this new policy in writing for the first time and they've not had time to respond but the anticipation is some will weapons include Firearms explosives and other items identified by Capital Security that pose a potential security threat.

The weapons, ban does not apply to Law Enforcement Officers, the FBI private security personnel, with clearance and contract workers using tools that in the wrong hands could be weapons construction, worker comes through with an exacto knife, working on carpet, on the third floor, that they need to be allowed to do that.

That ought, however, I remember the general public does not need an exacto knife beginning.

Next week, pass through weapons detection, systems will be installed to NAB any would-be weapon carriers into the building.

The startup day for implementation, is the day after Labor Day, when lawmakers return, and the flow of thousands of school kids, it's start coming to the building again and the commission's intent in doing all.

This is clear.

We're doing this to improve the security of the building and reducing the risk of any catastrophes moving forward.

And so already one lawmaker has a concealed weapons permit and she has said that she's going to keep her gun.

So push is going to come to shove at the door with the detectors to keep her out and others.

Yeah, and everybody wants to be there at that moment when this actually happens, where you've got the concealed carry people trying to get in and we'll see what happens.

I mean, what's what's really the point I guess at the end of the day, you are a lawmaker, you are still subjected to the laws of the land.

Or in this case, the policies of the capital commission which attorney general Dana Nestle.

Has previously said, Capital commission has this authority to do the state budget just gave The couple commission, five million dollars to be able to put these weapons paths through text detection systems of along with some software.

This band doesn't.

Obviously go to out on the ground so they can conceal carry out there all they want.

But I mean at the end of the day are you really willing to let just being able to concealed carry when there are other Capital officers who are on the grounds and willing to respond and able to respond?

You know are you willing to let that stop you from doing your job though.

The capital commission is a creature of the legislature this.

Okay?

It could be one creature be exact.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean let's remember that, you know, this all stems from the footage you showed there in 2000, armed protesters who are opposed to the governor's covid-19 orders.

Sure your footage, I believe it showed one of the Wolverine Watchman, one of the guys who was later convicted and sent to prison for attempting to kidnap the governor Whitmer, after, you know, a couple months after that event.

But in any case, the capital commission last in 2021 under Republican leadership in the legislature, I basically was afraid to do a full weapons ban because they were concerned, the legislature could cut funding to them.

They are as you said, a creature of the legislature, their appointed primarily by the legislature and the commission at that point said well will ban openly carried guns, but we're not going to mess with concealed because it could be thorny with lawmakers.

Well, now, Democrats control things so I don't think there's going to be any funding Cuts this year to the capital commission, but we'll see what happens moving forward and to the point, Lawmakers, who are concealed?

This is a huge issue for them.

This is a symbolic Second Amendment fight that.

I think they will be very serious about taking either trying to get into the capital or I'll be interested to see if there's any litigation on this front.

You know, the Attorney General gave an opinion but that's not the end of the legal fight.

I don't think I want to illustrate two perspectives here though.

I once was walking outside of the capital and this was at the time where the red flag legislation was receiving its initial hearings.

And there was an individual behind me who said, "I am so passionate about this legislation, but the idea of going to a Committee hearing gives me anxiety because I'm afraid that someone is going to come in with a firearm and cause harm", and hearing that from someone behind me, I was eavesdropping and it made me go, "Wow, like this is, you know how people feel about the present-day political climate".

The other perspective though, is that I have heard individuals.

Say, you know, I am someone who legally practices concealed carry, I have no record of criminal activity or, you know, All disruption and I am a good mental health.

And on top of that, I'm not under any controlled substance.

If the capital is supposed to be the people's house.

I'm allowed to bring my gun into my house.

So, you know, he these are two different tales that are running parallel, with one another, who do you sell?

Or they converging into a clash.

And some people feel that concealed carry is how they feel that necessity of safety that they're entitled to under the Constitution.

How can we say one?

Sin is wrong and one person is right.

The interesting thing about this story is that the Michigan Supreme Court in the year, 2001 instituted a ban on weapons in all courts and they are checking people at the door and nobody is getting in so they got a 22 year head.

Start on the legislature on implementing this policy but will push come to shove on the opening day is the major question on that and I think the courts may eventually be asked to declare in here.

Yeah, banning guns in the courtrooms is one thing doing it in the capital where lawmakers Jurors who think they have the authority to set.

All policies will be walking in on a daily basis.

So alright let's talk about Mike Rogers.

Mike Rogers guess what running for the US Senate.

He served 14 years in the US House of Representatives and then retired in 2015.

And now he is ready to walk around the u.s. Rotunda to the other side to serve in the US, Senate, his name, Mike Rogers.

And while the Republican is not ready to formally announce his candidacy, take this to the bank, he is running.

However, that decision now is a complete reversal from where he was last March, I'm not sure I'm thinking about running for the US Senate now, really, why Listen, I never say never in politics.

I have learned that for sure.

What happened since last March is mr. Rogers concluded, he could not get to the White House but he's received a ton of endorsements back here about running for the US Senate, including those who are willing to pony up the cash and some who are hoping that his brand of more moderate politics.

That is not like Donald Trump.

Well, that could help to unite a badly divided, Michigan, Republican Party.

Comment on what's going on politically nationally.

And when you look at what the national scene is about candidly grieve at grievances politics.

You know, the sugar high of I slap my opponent and I get, you know, 400,000 likes on my on my Facebook page is not working before his formal announcement of his candidacy.

He has some private business issues to resolve, and then you could look for those Mike Rogers for US, Senate, bumper stickers.

So Jordan, when you heard this story, what did?

I think, I mean, I think it shows that Republicans are starting to get serious about the senate race now.

I mean, prior to this, we have who I believed just Tom Barrett as the most likely and viable candidate against Elisa.

Slotkin up.

Tom, Barrett got a rumors of will James Craig, jump in.

But right now, the one who has raised the most money, it's Nikki Schneider.

Yeah.

So, I mean, it's presenting a viable candidate for Republicans to hang their hat on and say, hey, we're able to contend with Turret Alyssa, slotkin or who presents herself as moderate.

Alyssa, slotkin, who has been really leaning on that her ability to say, hey yes, I can vote this way but conservatives, don't worry.

I can also back causes that you are into as well.

You know, he's able to kind of throw that same needle and has a pretty similar background to her.

So I mean, it's an interesting development because he gets to a Republican primary, that's the question.

It is the question.

I mean, I think right now, you know, there's not a lot of huge names in there Nikki Schneider.

The State Board of Education member is not super well known Statewide even though she's been on the ballot because people don't pay that much attention to State Board of Education races.

But she's been in the longest, she's raised the most money but not a lot of money.

I mean, slotkin is crushing her and the fundraising department.

So I think it remains to be seen who gets into that primary if Mike Rogers can get through the primary.

I think he does match up pretty well on paper with a list of slacking that said, he's been out of office a while.

Now, I think for a lot of folks The reaction is going to be who you know, he was well-known eight years ago or whenever it was that he was in Congress but you only representing part of the state hasn't run for Statewide office before.

So he'll have some serious work to do to introduce introduce himself to voters.

Mike Rogers.

He is a bush-era congressman and he also used to speak regularly on CNN about National Security.

I mean the Maga people.

I feel like on those two facts alone are going to load him.

However, here's a question that I have about a general section in this primary for Democrats.

I think we can already make an anticipation that Hill Harper is going to try pushing Alyssa's lock-in more to the left.

He's going to try to separate her from her moderate tickets, splitting purple, bread and butter, and what's going to happen if she goes there.

And she does end up winning that primary and then she does go up against Mike Rogers.

And then it's overall saying, well I stayed true to my moderation.

How about you some overtures?

I'm told are being made from Rogers, supporters to the All of those to a Donald Trump to stay out of the primary.

When has he ever taken suggestions from anyone?

He never has, but got to remember, Trump is not exactly had an exemplary trap record on endorsing candidates who win, okay, which is why the Rogers people are not scared to death.

No, it look.

This is a huge development, seriously for the Republicans, particularly Rogers for him to come in.

And if he gets the money, which I think he's going to get, I That's what he had the really line up before he made this step.

It's going to mean that the Republican party I think is retreating into silos and they're going to have a US Senate race with Rogers.

It's a general election nominee and then they're going to have the State House of Representatives with Rick Snyder, funding it and maybe a little mini Sino Silo over here with the Congressional races of few key seats like the slotkin with vacancy.

Is there Bill?

You're talking about the establishment Republicans who are very much, not the Michigan odd-looking.

I understand that, but I think we should make too much of the so-called Maga crowd and the dressing, there are more Maga voters than there are Mike Rogers police.

Okay?

Two things about Mike Rogers and and what Jonathan said is absolutely true.

One of his weaknesses is he will not have been in public office or run for public office for a dozen years in 2024.

You select it was 2012, but the good thing about that is he hasn't compiled any record here in the last 12 years, he has a lot of stuff doesn't have a lot of stuff that the Maga crowd can take a mint in a primary or the general election can really get at.

So, in many ways, he's kind of a blank slate in terms of a lot of the recent stuff that's happened and he is a very skilled retail politician.

Remember he won the closest Congressional races?

The country in 2000 against die and by remember before that he was Senate majority floor leader in the state senate.

I mean he has been around a long time he knows what he's done.

Yes, he's been out of the public eye and he's going to have to build that back up, but he could do that in a heartbeat.

I don't want to say one thing though, about Donald Trump, and obviously, there is going to be Donald Trump energy and every race in 2024.

I mean, just look at this week of headlines that we saw, but I think the age of trump perks.

I'm going to make a risky forecast, I think it's over.

I think it's every man for himself.

Now you know, let's raise the question Beyond why isn't Trump but you know going to contribute to the legal expenses of his Trump allies who are now facing serious criminal charges.

So I think that's why I think maybe he's not going to get involved with an endorsement.

I think he is going to be zoomed in on himself.

Well I was just going to say to bring it back to Michigan.

I mean this is a Statewide race.

We brought up the fact that Michigan is very purple and just based off of recent precedent the more Leading candidates your Christina, Kurama or your match /, know those individuals who are seen as more receptive by that base, they didn't do well, they did not do well in a Statewide race and I don't know how much they're obviously going to play a portion of some role in this race but how much remains to be seen and I don't know if we do much good in putting a lot of stock in those types of books.

Unit, its did win the primaries though and that'll be the questions you have about your 25 cents.

You could buy a cup of coffee fair enough, but my Mike Rogers will have to get through a primary, to your point earlier, Tim again.

We'll see who gets in the race.

I think.

Now, if he has a lot of money, I think he'll be the front-runner getting in, but we'll see if you know, a Maga favorite Nikki Snyder or somebody else emerges and rallies that Trump base.

If Mike Rogers enters his race, he's going to blow the Republican field against him away in a primary and it's going to be a knock-down drag-out bare-knuckles brawl.

Between him and slack and going into November of 2024 and it's going to be a record amount of spending in the state.

I quickly we had some indictments this week, over people who took election machines.

Took them into a motel room and took them apart allegedly.

Yes, the Attorney General nominee and 23 juice is not under is one of those who was charged this week indicted by a grand jury.

As was Stephanie Lambert and other pro-trump attorney who has worked on, you know, 2020.

Related litigation around the country very much an election denier and then dare Remnant.

The former state representative who you know was certain.

I'd say, quiet her first four years in office, and then in her final term emerged as a real Trump backer in conspiracy theory, she won't do what were they allegedly trying to?

They were trying to access voting machines get inside of them to look at their software to try and prove Donald Trump's claims that the election was rigged against him to try and find some sort of evidence.

But the problem is for them, they didn't have the authority to do that now according to the prosecutor and the grand jury and a judge who has actually ruled on this law in question, who can give permission for someone to access voting machines, the courts have already said, now it's the Secretary of State or it's a court order.

They did not have either of those things, but they went to local.

Clerks around the state in three areas and got them to give them the machines they did.

They got machines from Three Counties that we know of according to the referral, from Attorney General de nesle last year.

But again, a court has now ruled that that does not constitute legal permission for someone who is not an election official to possess machines.

Yeah, I mean, they were three of nine, total individuals named at the start.

So, this is it for charges.

Only these three individuals will move forward.

And in the court process, the rest Muskegon County prosecutor.

DJ Hilson, who's serving a special prosecutor to the case had to be named special prosecutor.

Because Nestle was facing Department.

Oh, that was obviously a huge conflict of interest but that aside.

Yeah, no.

He'd said that, there was not enough evidence based off of everything that they had gathered to say that the rest of these individuals, one of whom was a Barry County.

Sheriff Dar Leaf, even that there was not enough evidence or those who were did play a part in either.

Obtaining the voting machines or take.

We were misled and deceived into thinking that what they were doing was totally within the power to be done and as a result, should not be tried.

So, I'm here on the house.

Been just a week of like Trump related headlines back-to-back.

I mean we're still waiting to see what is going to be the fate of the 16.

Trump electors who signed Electoral College certificates, claiming that Trump won the 2020 election and then on top of it you have Trump himself being indicted this week for, you know, what was his involvement in the January 6 Riots of the US Capital and I think just with that being said, I think a lot of news viewers are feeling a bit of Maga fatigue but I don't think it's over yet.

Well it is clear that Michigan is playing a role in all of this National story to a large extent.

Oh absolutely.

I mean, I believe Michigan is the only state where these false electors have been prosecuted at this point.

We know in Georgia.

Some of them actually became cooperating Witnesses and an ongoing investigation.

There that hasn't happened in Michigan.

So we've got the 16 electors mishaan, Matic the farmers shh GOP chair.

She's in court as we tape now.

I think Tim on a probable cause hearing for the fake electors and yeah, the special prosecutor now has gone against these attorneys matter.

Pernod and Stephanie Lambert, in particular they were working on similar efforts like this across the country.

Either involved in trying to prove 2020 election fraud or raising funds for these efforts.

So, these are a couple Central players nationally but they're based here in Michigan and Issue again, is taking the lead on Prosecuting, these folks, if you're a legal professional in these cases of any type of democratic affiliation, you recognize that the world is watching right now and this is the time to present bulletproof evidence with no wiggle room while.

Also, recognizing that there is a pre-existing mistrust in our country and our state's legal systems.

Well, on that note we got through it.

All we turn to visit Newsweek into an interesting program.

Thank you for tuning in.

Our thanks to our great panel.

See more here for more off the Record next week.

Bye bye.

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