>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>>> GOOD EVENING!

WELCOME TO DONNYBROOK.

CHARLIE BRENNAN IS NOT WITH US TONIGHT.

HE'S NOT IN TROUBLE.

I THINK HE'S IN CLEVELAND, BUT MAYBE THAT IS TROUBLE.

HEY, MAKE SURE YOU STAY TUNED TONIGHT.

WE'RE HAVING PAUL ZIEGLER, CEO OF EDUCATION PLUS, ON NEXT UP.

SO THAT WILL BE QUITE AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION AS WE HEAD BACK TO THE CLASSROOM HERE IN JUST A WEEK OR IN SOME CASES TWO WEEKS.

WELL, FAMILIAR FACES EVEN WITH A GUEST TODAY, BUT WE'RE GOING TO START WITH WENDY WIESE FROM KTRS WHO'S GETTING UP AT 3:00 IN THE MORNING, BUT STILL LOOKS WONDERFUL AS USUAL.

>> OH, WOW, THANKS, ALVIN.

>> A FOUNDER IN BILL McCLELLAN, FORMER OF THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH BUT STILL WRITES A COLUMN.

HE HAS A GOOD ONE THIS WEEK.

ANOTHER FOUNDER, RAY HARTMANN, HAS A SHOW ON KTRS WHICH I'M DRAWING A BLANK ON.

WHAT'S THE NAME OF YOUR SHOW?

>> ST. LOUIS IN THE KNOW.

>> THERE YOU GO.

GOOD TITLE.

AND YOU ALL KNOW HER FROM CHANNEL 5 AND THIS PROGRAM, CHRISTINE BYERS.

HOW YOU DOING TODAY, CHRISTINE?

>> DOING GOOD.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU.

THERE WAS A, I GUESS A GRAND JURY REPORT THAT COMES OUT THAT IS FILED AFTER A GRAND JURY IS NO LONGER EMPANELLED, THAT'S ABOUT THREE MONTHS, AND THEY DID NOT REALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, A GLOWING RECOMMENDATION OF CIRCUIT ATTORNEY KIM GARDNER.

SAID A LOT OF THINGS CAME BEFORE THEM THAT JUST WEREN'T NECESSARY AND THEY HAD OTHER CONCERNS.

WHAT ARE YOU'RE THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

THIS IS A PANEL OF 12 GRAND JURORS WHO GET TOGETHER AND THEY'RE EMPANELLED FOR THREE MONTHS AT A TIME AND AFTER THE END OF THEIR SERVICE, THEY'RE ASKED TO GIVE CREDIT STEEX ON VERSE AS -- CRITIQUES ON VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE SYSTEM.

I GOT AHOLD OF THE REPORT FROM JANUARY THROUGH ANYWAY AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THE BITTERNESS IN THEIR WORDS BETWEEN KIM GARDNER'S OFFICE AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS A DETRIMENT TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

THEY FOUND THAT THE WAY THAT CASES WERE PRESENTED WERE DONE ON AN INCONSISTENT BASIS AND HER OFFICE MADE PROMISES TO FIX IT.

THE PROBLEMS WERE NEVER ADDRESSED, WHICH MADE THEM THINK THAT THESE PROMISES TO FIX THEM WERE NOT MADE IN GOOD FAITH.

SO BASICALLY KIM GARDNER'S RESPONSE WAS THAT THIS GRAND JURY WAS OUT OF BOUNDS IN CRITIQUING HER OFFICE, THAT THIS IS NOT WITHIN THEIR SCOPE, THAT THEY SHOULD JUST BE FOCUSING ON FACILITIES LIKE THE WORKHOUSE OR THE DOWNTOWN JAIL OR THE COURTHOUSE, ETCETERA.

AND BASICALLY THAT SHE ALSO THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE MAJORITY OPINION OF THIS GRAND JURY.

BUT SHE DID NOT ADDRESS WHETHER OR NOT THEIR ALLEGATIONS WERE TRUE OR NOT.

>> WELL, IF SHE DIDN'T -- I MEAN, IF SHE -- I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THIS.

I DIDN'T KNOW GRAND JURY DID THIS KIND OF STUFF WHERE THEY WOULD WEIGH IN ON THE COMPETENCE OF A PROSECUTOR.

I HAVEN'T SEEN IT DONE BEFORE.

THEIR ARGUMENT IS JUST NONCOMPLIANT AND THE OPINION OF ONE OR TWO PEOPLE, WHATEVER, BUT WASN'T THE GROUPS, AND IF THAT'S TRUE -- I'M NOT SAYING IT IS, BUT IF THAT'S THEIR ARGUMENT, WHY WOULD SHE RESPOND TO THE SUBSTANCE IF SHE THINKS IT'S NOT NONCOMPLIANT AND DOESN'T SPEAK OFFICIALLY FOR THE GRAND JURY, I WOULDN'T RESPOND EITHER.

LOOK, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS THAT KIM GARDNER'S OFFICE NEEDS TO BE OVERHAULED, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE, BUT I -- YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A STORY THIS WEEK WHERE THERE WAS A -- SHE WON, HER OFFICE WON A MURDER CASE.

THEY WON ANOTHER ONE IN JUNE AND THE ONE THING THE TWO OF THEM HAD IN COMMON WAS THERE'S NO REFERENCE IN THE POST-DISPATCH, AND I UNDERSTAND THE POST-DISPATCH DOESN'T HAVE RESOURCES TO COVER THESE TRIALS LIKE IT ONCE DID, BUT IF KIM GARDNER HAD LOST EITHER OF THOSE CASE MUCH, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE LEAD OF THE STORY.

THEY WON TWO MURDER CASES, GOT LIFE IN PRISON BOTH TIMES, AND IT LITERALLY WASN'T EVEN MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS A PROSECUTOR THERE.

NORMALLY, I KNOW WHEN I KOFD -- >> LET ME, LET ME SHIFT THIS -- >> NO, I THINK IT'S -- >> NO, LET ME STEP IN FOR A MINUTE ON THIS.

FIRST OF ALL, WHEN THERE'S A TRIAL AND SOMEBODY WINS OR LOSES, WE ALMOST NEVER THROW IN, LIKE I'VE DONE THIS FOR YEARS AND I WOULDN'T WRITE THAT GEORGE PEACH'S OFFICE GOT A CONVICTION.

I WOULD WRITE THAT THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DID AND THAT DES.

>> THAT'S FINE.

THEY DIDN'T.

>> AND IT WAS ST. LOUIS, THAT THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, AND I THINK KIM GARDNER HAS A POLICY WHERE HER PEOPLE CAN'T TALK TO US AND IF I WERE THE REPORTER AND I USED TO BE SPITEFUL AND SOME PROSECUTOR OR DEFENSE ATTORNEY WOULDN'T TALK TO ME, I'D THINK, OKAY, I'LL JUST LEAVE HIS NAME OUT OF THE STORY ANYWAY.

BUT THE IDEA IF THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN AN ACQUITTAL, KIM GARDNER'S NAME WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE STORY OR IN THE HEADLINE, THAT'S NONSENSE.

>> NO, IT ISN'T.

[ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> COVERS THESE CASES, I'M HERE TO SAY THAT KIM GARDNER DIDN'T ADDRESS THE ALLEGATIONS IN THIS REPORT.

AND I FIND THAT TO BE PROBLEMATIC.

>> BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS THE SAME CIRCUIT ATTORNEY WHO BLAMED FMLA FOR AN ATTORNEY NOT BEING IN THE COURTROOM TO REPRESENT THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY SO THAT AN ACCUSED KILLER WALKED OUT OF JAIL.

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF PART AND PARCEL FOR WHAT WE HAVE -- I'M SORRY, RAY, FOR WHAT WE HAVE -- WE'VE COME TO EXPECT.

I KNOW SHE WAS ELECTED, BUT -- AND HER STORY IS COMPELLING AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ROOTING FOR HER, BUT IT'S TURNING INTO A -- IT'S A SINKHOLE NOW.

>> AND THAT WAS FAMILY AND MATERNAL LEAVE THAT WENDY WAS REFERRING TO HER.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK.

SHE JUST -- THE JUDGE -- >> THIS HADN'T HAPPENED -- >> THEY DID GET THAT MURDER SUSPECT BACK, FORTUNATELY, BUT -- >> A WEEK LATER AND A BLOCK AWAY FROM THE VICTIM'S FAMILY'S HOUSE.

>> WHAT'S THAT?

>> A WEEK LATER AND A BLOCK AWAY FROM THE VICTIM'S FAMILY'S HOUSE.

>> AND THE VICTIM'S FAMILY HAD NOT BEEN NOTIFIED THAT HE HAD BEEN -- AND THEY SHOULD HAVE.

>> WE'VE SAID IT OVER AND OVER.

THE FACT THAT SHE NEEDS TO UPGRADE AND IMPROVE THE MANAGEMENT OF HER OFFICE, INCLUDING HER MESSAGING, QUITE FRANKLY, BECAUSE WHAT THEY DON'T DO THAT I DISAGREE WITH THE THEY DON'T DO PRESS RELEASES UNLIKE, SAY, WESLEY BELL'S OFFICE, WHICH IS VERY GOOD AT INFORMING THE PUBLIC WHEN THEY HAVE VICTORIES.

THEY DON'T DO IT.

I THINK THEY'RE WRONG NOT TO DO IT, BUT THERE'S THIS PERCEPTION OUT THERE THAT THEY DON'T NEVER ANYBODY BEHIND BARS.

IT'S NOT TRUE.

>> I JUST WANT TO REITERATE -- >> I DIDN'T SAY -- THE FACT IS, I COVERED TRIALS WHEN I WAS A DAILY NEWSPAPER REPORTER, YOU DON'T IGNORE THE EXISTENCE OF A PROSECUTOR.

>> BUT THE ATTACK ON THE PRESS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THE PRESS IS NOT MENTIONING HER NAME IN A STORY ABOUT CONVICTIONS, WE NEVER DO, RAY.

I WOULD NEVER MENTION -- >> TELL ME IF MILLS MOSS EVER WON A CASE THAT HE DIDN'T GET HIS NAME IN THE PAPER.

>> THAT'S BECAUSE HE WAS NOT THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY.

HE WAS THE PROSECUTOR AND HE TALKED TO US.

WE WOULDN'T -- WE WOULDN'T NOT MENTION MILLS MOSS AND MENTIONED THAT HAYS RUNS THE OFFICE.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE, BUT WE WOULDN'T LEAVE THEIR NAME OUT BECAUSE WE WERE MAD OF THEM.

>> NOW WAIT A MINUTE, WAIT A MINUTE.

I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE THAT, BUT ANY PUBLICATION I EVER WORKED AT, I WOULD NOT WANT ANYBODY TO GO BACK AND SCREEN 20 YEARS' WORTH OF STORIES TO SEE WHO WE DID AND DIDN'T MENTION THEIR NAMES AND WHO WE DID A JOB ON?

OH NO, NONE OF US CAN -- MOVING ON, OKAY.

IT'S TIME TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL, WENDY AND WE'RE GOING BACK AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE WEARING MASKS.

I GUESS WE DO KNOW THAT TEACHERS DON'T HAVE -- IT'S NOT A VACCINATION MANDATE.

YOUR FEELINGS AS WE HEAD BACK TO SCHOOL IN THIS TIME OF QUESTIONS AS FAR AS THE COVID IS CONCERNED?

>> WELL, IT WAS FUNNY BECAUSE ILLINOIS GOVERNOR J.B. PRITZKER HAS BEEN -- HE'S BEEN ROUNDLY APPLAUDED FOR HIS DECISIVENESS ON THIS AND SAYING NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS, A MASK -- THAT MASKS ARE REQUIRED IN SCHOOLS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, AND THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE, OKAY, THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO THAT.

WELL, THAT'S NOT ALL THERE IS TO THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER IN THE SUBURBS.

THEY WANT J.B. PRITZKER'S HEAD.

THE PARENTS DO NOT WANT THIS.

THEY WANT TO KNOW WHEN THIS IS GOING TO END, WHEN THESE DEMANDS ARE GOING TO END.

LOCALLY, AT LEAST AS OF THIS HOUR ON THIS THURSDAY, YOU HAVE ROCKWOOD, PARKWAY, AND AFFTON SCHOOLS ALSO REQUIRING MASKS.

I'M SURE THAT THERE WILL BE A FUROR OVER THAT DECISION AS WELL.

BUT I AM IN FAVOR OF MASKS IN THE CLASSROOM.

I WOULD BE IN FAVOR IF MY CHILDREN WERE STILL IN SCHOOL.

I HAVE A GRANDSON WHO'S NOT OLD ENOUGH TO GO TO SCHOOL, BUT I HAD WANT HIM TO WEAR A MASK WHEN WE'RE THIS FAR INTO THE SECOND WAVE OF THIS VIRUS.

>> IT'S SUCH A SMALL ASK FOR CHILDREN TO HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF IN-PERSON LEARNING.

IT'S SUCH A SMALL ASK.

JUST DO IT.

>> YUP.

>> I JUST THINK IT'S SO SAD THAT -- THERE WAS A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHETHER THE ECONOMY SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN AND BUSINESSES SHUT DOWN AND INTERESTING, YOU MENTIONED A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR.

THIS ISN'T ALL PARTISAN.

THE GOVERNOR -- THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS OF MARYLAND AND VERMONT BOTH HAVE BEEN EXEMPLARY, AND THEY'RE REPUBLICANS, IN BEING RESPONSIBLE.

UNLIKE MIKE PARSON IN OUR STATE WHERE IF THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE SOCIETIES WHERE PEOPLE DID THE RIGHT THING, HE'D RESIGN OVER JUST THE OUTCOME OF COVID IN OUR STATE.

AND IT'S JUST UNBELIEVABLE THAT WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT MASKS FOR KIDS, AND IT'S NOT AS BAD HERE AS IT IS IN FLORIDA WHERE THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO CUT OFF FUNDING FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT HAVE MASK MANDATES, BUT IT'S REALLY -- I AGREE WITH CHRISTINE.

IT'S SO LITTLE TO ASK TO HAVE JUST THE KIDS PROTECTED, AND BY THE WAY, THE TEACHERS TOO.

>> WELL, ALL RIGHT, NOW SPEAKING OF TEACHERS, RAY, SHOULDN'T TEACHERS BE MANDATED AND SHOULDN'T TEACHERS UNION SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIGHT IT IF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT MANDATES TEACHERS AND STAFF HAVE TO BE VACCINATED UNLESS YOU HAVE A LEGITIMATE REASON NOT TO BE?

>> I'M FINE WITH THAT.

>> ANYBODY DISAGREE WITH THAT?

>> NO.

>> BECAUSE I -- I'VE HEARD OF SOME COMPANIES THAT ACTUALLY ARE NOW KIND OF LOCKING A LINE IN THE MIDDLE HERE WITH THE VACCINES AND THEY'RE BASICALLY SAYING YOU SHOW US PROOF OF YOUR VACCINE, WHEN YOU WON'T HAVE TO WEAR A MASK INDOORS, BUT IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO SHOW PROOF OF VACCINE, YOU HAVE TO WEAR A MASK INDOORS, TO THEIR EMPLOYEES.

>> OKAY.

>> AND ALVIN, I CAN SEE A TEACHERS UNION TAKING A POSITION THAT SAYS IF A TEACHER IS -- THERE MAY BE SOME ACCOMMODATION FOR THAT TEACHER TO BE PART OF VIRTUAL LEARNING, SOME OTHER -- I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF UNION CONTRACTS AND SO FORTH, BUT THE IDEA THAT A TEACHER HAS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE A VACCINE AND BE IN THE CLASSROOM WITH KIDS, I AIN'T BUYING THAT AT ALL.

THEY MIGHT NEED TO ACCOMMODATE, NOT TO FIRE TEACHERS, BUT IF WE WANT PEOPLE TO DO VACCINES, WE GOT TO TAKE AWAY THE STUFF THEY WANT, WHETHER IT'S JOBS, GOING TO THE BALL GAME.

WE CAN'T MAKE PEOPLE GET VACCINES, BUT THERE'S NO LAW THAT SAYS THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO GO TO BUSCH STADIUM IF YOU'RE NOT VACCINATED, AND IF YOU TOOK THAT KIND OF THING AWAY, MORE PEOPLE WOULD GET VACCINATED.

>> YEAH, I JUST -- >> I CAN TELL YOU ONE JUST ANECDOTAL STORY FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

AT THE END OF THE LAST SCHOOL YEAR, ONE THE TEACHERS IN ONE OF MY KID'S CLASSROOMS CAME DOWN WITH COVID-19, WHICH MEANT MY KID HAD TO MISS THE VERY LAST WEEK OF SCHOOL.

AND I WAS LIKE, HOW THIS IS FAIR TO THE PARENTS, TO THE KIDS AND ALL THAT.

>> YEAH.

I TELL YOU WHAT -- >> AND THE TEACHERS HAVE, YOU KNOW, HAVE BEEN VERY VOCAL ABOUT HOW FEARFUL THEY ARE TO GO BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM, SO YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD BE AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE TO GET THE VACCINE.

BUT WE'VE SEEN THAT WHAT WE THINK WOULD HAPPEN ISN'T HAPPENING.

>> AND THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE HAS TAKEN AWAY PRIVILEGES IF YOU'RE NOT VACCINATED, I.E., YOU HAVE TO WEAR A MASK, CAPITAL GO OUT TO DINNER AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND THAT 65% RATE OF INOCULATIONS IS NOW LEAGUE-WIDE ALMOST 90%.

IT WORKS.

IF YOU TAKE SOMETHING AWAY FROM PEOPLE OR DON'T GIVE SOMEBODY SOMETHING, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY RESPOND.

SO MAYBE SCHOOL DISTRICTS CAN LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.

ALL RIGHT, BILL, DR. KHAN, YOU KNOW, HE SAID HE WAS SPOKEN TO TERRIBLY AND JOSTLED AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING A LITTLE OVER A WEEK AGO.

VIDEO AND SOME TESTIMONY DOESN'T BACK THAT UP.

IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT ALL HAPPENED, BUT WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE WITH THAT STORY?

>> OH, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, I WAS TELLING YOU BEFORE WE WENT ON THAT I JUST WROTE ABOUT THIS FOR THE WEEKEND.

I'M A VERY SELF-CENTERED PERSON AND I WANT TO SEE EVERYBODY GET VACCINATED FOR MY OWN REASONS.

I'M AN OLD GUY WITH AN IMMUNE-COMPROMISED SYSTEM, TO I WANT PEOPLE TO BE PERSUADED OR ORDERED TO GET VACCINATED, AND WHEN YOU HAVE THAT HEALTHCARE OFFICIAL WHO MISSTATES FACTS LIKE DR. KHAN APPARENTLY DID WITH HIS, YOU KNOW, I WAS JOSTLED AND KIND OF FOUGHT MY WAY OUT, I HAD TO FIGHT MY WAY OUT OF THERE AND THAT'S WHY I FLIPPED SOME PEOPLE OFF, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOSE YOUR COMPOSURE AND FLIP SOMEBODY OFF, THAT'S OKAY, BUT WHEN YOU'RE CAUGHT IN WHAT SEEMS TO BE AN OBVIOUS MISTRUTH, THAT'S TERRIBLE FOR A HEALTHCARE OFFICIAL BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE TO TURN AROUND AND TRY TO CONVINCE ME, YOU CAN TRUST ME ON THIS.

I LOOK AT SAM PAGE AND I THINK WHERE DOES HE FIND THESE PEOPLE?

THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO BE DOING SOMETHING GOOFY, SO I HAD THINK THAT DR. KHAN SHOULD EITHER LOSE HIS JOB OR AT THE VERY LEAST BE SUSPENDED BECAUSE THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF WHEN A HEALTHCARE OFFICIAL IS MISSTATING FACTS.

AND SAYING YOU SHOULD WALK A MILE IN MY MOCCASINS, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, DR. KHAN.

>> AND WHAT'S SO INTERESTING AND APPARENTLY WHAT HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IS WE HAVE SOME OF THE BEST VIDEOGRAPHERS IN THE COUNTRY IN THIS CITY, AND THEY WOULD HAVE STAYED WITH HIM FROM EVERY INCH -- IF HE HAD BEEN -- IF HIS PATH HAD BEEN OBSTRUCTED BY ANYBODY IN THE COUNTY COUNCIL, THAT VIDEO WOULD HAVE GONE VIRAL AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHY IT TOOK TWO DAYS FOR THIS STORY TO GET LEGS AND TO START GETTING TRACTION BECAUSE NOBODY -- IT WAS A NOTHING BURGER.

>> I'M SORRY.

WENDY, I WAS GOING TO SAY IF I WERE GIVING A COMMENCE'S THE SPEECH TO YOUNG PEOPLE, I WOULD SAY LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE YOU'RE ON VIDEOTAPE BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY ARE.

>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

>> EVERYTHING IS GOING TO COME BACK TO BITE YOU AND WHEN YOU START MAKING WILD ACCUSATIONS, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE CAN'T JUST BELIEVE THAT ONE SIDE CAN GO INTO A COUNCIL CHAMBER WITH A PRECONCEIVED IDEA ABOUT THE OTHER BECAUSE CLEARLY THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

>> WELL, IT'S JUST ADDITIONAL FODDER FOR THE WHOLE CROWD OUT THERE WHO DOUBTS EVERYTHING THAT'S COMING OUT OF OUR MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW ANYWAY.

>> EXACTLY RIGHT, EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> I HAVE A MIXED FEELING.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT YOU SAY THERE, BILL, BUT THE PROBLEM -- AS FAR AS WHERE HE FOUND DR. KHAN, HE FOUND HIM FROM THE DOCTORS ADMINISTRATION WHEN KHAN LEFT BECAUSE OF PAGE AND STENGER NOT GETTING ALONG.

BUT THE THING THAT BOTHERS ME A LITTLE, I GUESS, IS I ONLY HAD LIMITED DEALINGS WITH HIM AND WATCHED HIM ON WEST LAKE AND COLD WATER CREEK, HE WAS SO SUPERIOR WHEN I WAS HANDLING THAT IN THE FIRST, I GUESS IT WAS -- I THINK CHARLIE HIRED HIM AND THEN STENGER KEPT HIM AROUND, AND HE WAS SO GOOD ON THAT.

AND I THINK IT'S SO SAD THAT SOMEBODY SEEMS THAT GOOD ON THIS AND HE'S RIGHT ON THE HEALTHCARE STUFF.

I KEEP HOPING THAT IN THE GAP THAT'S THERE IN THE TAPE SOMEWHERE, THAT THERE WILL BE AT LEAST SOME EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS -- YOU KNOW, I STILL -- PART OF ME CAN'T BELIEVE HE MADE UP THE ENTIRE THING.

IN OTHER WORDS, HE OBVIOUSLY EXAGGERATED BEING JOSTLED OR WHATEVER, BUT AS FAR AS THE PART ABOUT SOMEBODY -- HE JUST HAD NO PROVOCATION TO FLIP SOMEBODY OFF, I CAN'T IMAGINE HE MADE THAT PART UP.

I'M NOT SAYING HE DIDN'T, BUT IT'S HARD TO ME TO FIGURE OUT WHAT OUGHT TO HAPPEN.

>> I'M NOT SO MA -- SO MAD ABOUT FLIPPING SOMEBODY OFTEN, BUT IT'S JUST NOT BEING TRUTHFUL.

>> MEANWHILE, WE'RE ON A CEASE AND DESIST ON MASK WEARING BECAUSE OF A ST. LOUIS COUNTY RULING.

I GUESS WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER COURT HEARING TO DETERMINE HOW IT ALL PLAYED OUT, BUT RIGHT NOW, TECHNICALLY, I GUESS WE DON'T HAVE TO WEAR A MASK INDOORS IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY UNTIL THE 17th, WE'LL FIND OUT HOW THAT ALL PLAYS OUT.

ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT, JUST FROM THE ROUNDTABLE HERE?

ARE WE IN A WAIT-AND-SEE MODE OR ARE WE IN A -- CAN WE PLEASE MOVE ON FROM THIS MODE?

HOW DOES EVERYBODY FEEL?

>> I WANT TO SEE THE COUNCIL TOGETHER MAKE THE DECISION.

BECAUSE I THINK THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH THIS FROM THE BEGINNING WAS THE WHAT I THAT SAM PAGE JUST UNILATERALLY MADE THE CHANGE AND THAT WAS WHAT DREW THE IRE OF THE COUNCIL.

SO I WANT TO SEE THEM PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS AND SAY IF THIS ISN'T ABOUT MASKS, THEN OKAY, COUNCIL, DECIDE WHETHER WE SHOULD DO A MASK MANDATE TOGETHER.

>> OKAY.

GOOD POINT, GOOD POINT.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

IN OUR FAMILY, EVERYBODY IS WEARING A MASK INDOORS, WHEN WE GO OUT.

I'LL ADD TO THIS AND MAYBE IT'S THE WAY PEOPLE ON THIS SIDE OUGHT TO RESPOND.

IF I'M IN A -- AND GOOD FOR SCHNUCKS AND ALL THE GROCERY STORES THAT THEY REQUIRE IT, AND I'M NOT HANGING OUT SOMEWHERE THAT DOESN'T, OKAY?

IN OTHER WORDS, I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND TELL ANYBODY ELSE WHAT THEY OUGHT TO DO.

I'M GOING TO VOTE WITH MY FEET.

IF IT'S A PEOPLE WITH VACCINATIONS CAN STILL GET THE DELTA VARIANT, MY WAY OF DOING IT, OUR FAMILY IS IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A BUSINESS THAT'S NOT REQUIRING MASKS, WE'RE NOT PATRONIZING IT, AND I THINK IF ENOUGH PEOPLE LOOK AT IT THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS EVER GOING TO GET ITS ACT TOGETHER.

>> SPEAKING OF HANGING OUT, MARY BARTON IS NOT HANGING OUT AT THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SHE RESIGNED.

SHE GOT ALMOST $300,000 FOR SAYING GOODBYE, HAS SUED, THREATENED TO SUE, I DON'T KNOW.

SOMETHING IS GOING ON, ETHICAL SOCIETY OF POLICE CHAPTER OUT THERE PRETTY MUCH SAID GOOD RIDDANCE, I HOPE I NEVER -- WHEN I FINALLY DO GET TO RETIRE, I HOPE IT'S NOT GREETED LIKE THAT.

RAY, ARE YOU SAD TO SEE HER GO?

HE SAID WITH HIS TONGUE IN HIS CHEEK?

>> I DON'T KNOW, A COUPLE MONTHS AGO WHEN I CHARGED UP THE HILL AND SAID FIRE MARY BARTON AND LOOKED AROUND AND DIDN'T SEE ANY OF THE CONVERTS BEHIND ME AND I WAS LONELY OUT THERE FOR A MINUTE.

SHE WAS, YOU KNOW, WELL-INTENDED PERSON, BUT JUST COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED FOR THAT JOB, UNSUITED FOR IT, WHATEVER, AND, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS HER SETTLEMENT, I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT WE DO IN ST. LOUIS IS PAY LARGE SETTLEMENTS WHEN WE DON'T LOSE BIG VERDICTS IN THE TENS OF MILLIONS LIKE KEITH WILDHABER, ERNIE TRAKAS, WE'LL PAY OFF 60 GRAND.

NOTHING WENT WRONG, BUT WE'LL GIVE THE LADY -- I THINK SHE SUED THEM OR THREATENED -- >> NO, WHAT HAPPENED IS SHE FILED AN EEOC COMPLAINT WHICH IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS A DISCRIMINATION LAWSUIT.

IT TAKES MONTHS AND MONTHS FOR THAT EEOC BODY TO COME UP WITH WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE GROUNDS FOR A LAWSUIT.

BY AND LARGE, THEY SAY GOOD RIGHT AHEAD AND SUE.

>> AND WHEN IS SOMEBODY IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT GOING TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ALL THIS MONEY WE'RE SPENDING ON THESE HARASSMENT WHATEVER -- >> WELL, THAT'S ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

CHRISTINE, LET ME ASK YOU REAL FAST, BY TAKING THE SETTLEMENT, DOES THAT NOW NEGATE THE LAWSUIT?

MAYBE NOT LEGALLY, BUT WHAT ARE YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING IF YOU TOOK THIS MONEY?

>> BASICALLY, IT'S PART OF A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.

SHE AGREED TO WITHDRAW HER COMPLAINT.

>> OKAY.

>> SO IT IS OVER.

WE'LL NEVER GET TO THAER WHAT HER ALLEGATIONS OF DISCRIMINATION WERE, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS ANY TRUTH TO THEM.

SO IT'S ONE AND DONE.

>> AND I JUST WONDER -- >> REMIND OUR VIEWERS WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT HIRE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS, AND THAT'S A FIVE-MEMBER BOARD.

THE MEMBERS ARE APPOINTED BY THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, AND IT'S THEIR JOB TO SELECT THE POLICE CHIEF AND HIRE AND FIRE THE POLICE CHIEF AND HOLD THAT POLICE CHIEF ACCOUNTABLE.

>> AND SAM PAGE'S FIRST CHOICE DID NOT GET THE JOB AS REPORTED BY CHRISTINE AND OTHERS, SO IT'S A MESS.

>> ALVIN.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> NO, I -- >> GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, YOU MAY REMEMBER SAM PAGE FAMOUSLY SAYING ON TAPE TO TROY DOYLE, THAT THE POLICE BOARD WILL DO WHAT I TELL IT TO DO.

>> MM-HMM.

>> I WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU THAT CENTENE HAS GIVEN OVER $200,000 TO SAM PAGE'S CAMPAIGN AND WITH MICHAEL NEIDORFF HAVING SUCH AN ACUTE INTEREST IN POLICING, AND OH BY THE WAY, JON BELMAR, THE LAST POLICE CHIEF BEFORE MARY BARTON, AS HIS TOP SECURITY GUY, I THINK IT MAY BE SAID THAT SAM PAGE WILL DO WHAT MICHAEL NEIDORFF TELLS HIM TO DO.

I HOPE THAT'S NOT HOW WE PICK THE NEXT POLICE CHIEF, BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I REALLY WONDER.

>> RAY, WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY PICKED THE LAST ONE.

>> NO, WE DON'T.

>> AND THE IDEA THAT WE DON'T KNOW THAT MICHAEL NEIDORFF SAID I DON'T WANT A BLACK POLICE CHIEF.

>> I DON'T THINK HE SAID THAT.

>> WELL, TROY DOYLE, THAT'S PART THE ALLEGATION.

>> THAT'S PART OF THE ALLEGATION.

SPEAKING OF THAT ALLEGATION, JUST LIKE THAT ONE, IF THEY OFFER TROY DOYLE THE JOB AND HE SAYS YES, DOESN'T THAT MEAN THAT HIS LAWSUIT GOES AWAY?

I MEAN -- >> IT WOULDN'T?

>> NO, HE'S ALLEGING DISCRIMINATION OCCURRED WHEN HE WAS PASSED OVER FOR FLIF.

NOW, ONE -- FOR POLICE CHIEF.

ONE COULD ARGUE THAT BY MAKING HIM POLICE CHIEF, HE COULD CERTAINLY WITHDRAW -- >> THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.

WHEN I SAID GO AWAY, HE WOULD DECIDE TO MAKE IT GO AWAY.

>> I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING AWAY.

HE'S GOT RECORDINGS AND SOUNDS LIKE IF WHAT HE'S SAYING IS TRUE ABOUT THE RECORDINGS AND THINGS HE'S ALREADY COME OUT W I THINK WE'RE IN THIS ONE FOR THE LONG HAUL.

>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

IF YOU WERE ON THE POLICE BOARD THEN AND MAKING THE DECISION, YOU SAY, WELL, WE COULD -- DOYLE IS GOING TO SUE US AND LET'S MAKE A DEAL, LET YOU BE POLICE CHIEF IF YOU WITHDRAW THE SUIT.

WOULD EVERYBODY BE OKAY WITH THAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE COUNTY POLICE BOARD IS YOU NEVER GET AHOLD OF THEM.

THEY NEVER COME OUT TO THE PUBLIC.

WE'RE NOT ALLOWED IN THEIR MEETINGS YET.

THE COUNTY COUNCIL WAS BACK TO IN-PERSON MEETINGS, BUT THE COUNTY POLICE BOARD, OH, WITH EVER TO DO THAT OVER WEBEX OR ZOOM AND WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO QUESTION THEM.

I'VE CALLED THEM I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES BEFORE.

THEY DON'T RETURN CALLS.

>> YOU THINK CHRISTINE IS -- IT'S THE SINGLE LEAST ACCOUNTABLE BOARD IN THE ST. LOUIS AREA BY FAR.

>> I WOULD SAY.

>> WELL, RIGHT UP THERE.

>> I WOULD SAY SECOND ONLY TO THE FORMER ST. LOUIS CITY POLICE BOARD.

>> OH, I MEAN -- >> WHO WAS -- >> THEY'RE NOT AROUND ANYMORE.

>> NO.

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT NOW.

>> THEY DO STILL HAVE A SUNSHINE LAW IN THIS STATE, DON'T WE?

IT DOESN'T MATTER?

>> IT'S ABOUT PERSONNEL.

PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, SOMEBODY'S GETTING HIRED, FIRED, SOMEBODY SUING EVERY FIVE MINUTES IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND THESE ARE PERSONNEL MATTERS, AS EMBARRASSING AS THAT IS.

>> YOU CAN MAKE ANYTHING PERSONNEL.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> ALVIN, TROY DOYLE HAS TALKED TO SO MANY PEOPLE ABOUT THIS BOTH SIDES OF THE RACE DIVIDE.

TROY DOYLE IS SO CLEARLY THE BEST CHOICE FOR CHIEF BY SO MANY PEOPLE'S MEASURE, BUT THIS IS ABOUT POLITICS AND I LOVE IT, PERSONALLY, I'D LIKE TO SEE IT HAPPEN AND AS FAR AS HIS LAWSUIT, THAT'S JUST A NUMBER.

THEY COULD SETTLE THAT ON THE SIDE AND THEY WOULD HAVE -- THEY WOULD HAVE TO SETTLE IT OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A POLICE CHIEF SUING YOU, BUT THE POINT IS, COMING TO EITHER DROPPING THE SUIT OR HAVING A SETTLEMENT ON THAT SUIT ISN'T THAT HARD.

THE QUESTION IS POLITICALLY, AND AGAIN, I'M SORRY BUT -- AND I DON'T -- LET ME CLARIFY SOMETHING, BILL.

I NEVER SAID THAT MICHAEL NEIDORFF WOULDN'T HIRE SOMEBODY BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK.

>> WELL, THAT WAS THE ALLEGATION, A BIG PART OF THE IT AND I'M JUST SAYING WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

>> I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I THINK HAPPENED, THE PERSONALITIES BETWEEN CHIEF BELMAR AND LIEUTENANT COLONEL DOYLE WHEN HE WAS THERE, TROY DOYLE, I THINK THAT WAS A BIG FACTOR -- >> OKAY.

WE HAVE TO GO ON THAT ONE.

CHRISTINE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SITTING IN THIS WEEK.

LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU AGAIN.

YOU DO GREAT WORK.

KEEP IT UP ON EVERYTHING.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, YOU GUYS.

PAUL ZIEGLER, CEO OF EDUCATION PLUS COMING UP NEXT.

THANK YOUS FOR WATCHING.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> HI.

WELCOME TO NEXT UP.

WE'VE GOT DR. PAUL ZIEGLER, CEO OF EDUCATION PLUS, GREAT TIME TO HAVE THIS GUEST BECAUSE WE'RE ABOUT TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND AFTER REALLY THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF, IT'S NOT NORMAL, BUT MADE TO LOOK CLOSER.

SO DR. ZIEGLER, YOU REPRESENT SO MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND I KNOW A LOT HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AS WE HEAD BACK INTO THE SCHOOL YEAR, BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING CLOSE TO A CONSENSUS BETWEEN ALL YOUR MEMBERS, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IT WOULD BE?

>> I THINK THE CONSENSUS THAT WE HAVE IS WE WANT KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL AND I THINK WHERE WE'RE A LOT DIFFERENT THAN WE WERE A YEAR AGO IS EVERY DISTRICT THAT I WORK WITH HAS A PLAN TO HAVE KIDS BACK TO FACE-TO-FACE LEARNING WITH TEACHERS.

THERE WILL BE SOME OF OUR PATENTS THAT CHOOSE MAYBE A VIRTUAL OPTION STILL, BUT EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT REALLY LOOKS AT HOW CAN I HAVE KIDS IN A CLASSROOM WITH A TEACHER WITH AS LITTLE DISRUPTION AS POSSIBLE AND THEY BALANCE THAT WITH WHAT COMMUNITY EXPECTATIONS ARE, SO IT MAY LOOK DIFFERENT IN SOME OF OUR COMMUNITIES, BUT AGAIN, EVERYBODY HAS THAT FACE-TO-FACE AS PART OF THE PLAN.

>> DR. ZIEGLER, HOW MUCH ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THIS COULD SOMEHOW BECOME A STATE-DETERMINED PROCESS AS IT IS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WHERE THE GOVERNOR IS THREATENING TO CUT OFF FUNDS, WHATEVER, FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT DON'T HAVE -- THAT HAVE MANDATES?

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE THAT THIS DECISION WILL BE LEFT TO WHERE I WOULD THINK MOST OF US THINK IT OUGHT TO BE, WHICH IS THE LOCAL LEVEL, LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS MAKING A DECISION BASED ON THEIR OWN SITUATION?

>> YEAH, I REALLY THINK IT WILL.

THE GOVERNOR HAS INDICATED SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE YEARS THAT HE'S A STRONG PROPONENT OF LOCAL CONTROL.

CERTAINLY I THINK A DECISION LIKE THIS IS ONE LEFT BEST WITH THE COMMUNITY OR THAT LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD IN CONJUNCTION WITH THEIR LEADERS BECAUSE EACH ONE OF OUR COMMUNITIES IS A LITTLE -- AFFECTED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY AND EACH OF THEM HAVE A DIFFERENT TAKE ON WHAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THEIR KIDS, AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THAT LOCAL CONTROL.

KIND OF LIKE I SAID, YOU GOT TO BALANCE WHAT ARE THOSE MITIGATING LAYERS THAT I CAN PUT IN WITHIN A CLASSROOM ALONG WITH WHAT THE COMMUNITY EXPECTATION IS AND THAT BALANCE IS THROUGH THE SCHOOL BOARD AND THE LOCAL -- AND THE LEADERS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN, SO... >> SO -- AND FOLLOWING UP KIND OF ON THAT, IF A SCHOOL DISTRICT WERE TO DECIDE THAT, OKAY, WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT MANDATORY FOR TEACHERS AND STAFF TO BE VACCINATED, IS THAT LIKE AN ARGUMENT THAT YOU STAY OUT OF OR IF SCHOOL DISTRICTS REALLY GO AND MAKE A PUSH TO OUR PARENTS, TO ANY STUDENT, YOU KNOW, 12 OR OLDER TO BE VACCINATED, DO YOU KIND OF JUST LET THOSE PLAY OUT BY THEMSELVES OR WOULD EDUCATION PLUS HAVE AN OPINION OR AT LEAST SHARE IT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT?

>> YEAH, SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN DOING OVER THE LAST 16, 17 MONTHS IS REALLY WORKING CLOSELY WITH OUR MEDICAL COMMUNITY.

SO CERTAINLY WE HAVE PROVIDED GUIDANCE FROM OUR PEDIATRICIANS, FROM OTHER MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS ABOUT VACCINES, ABOUT MASK WEARING, ABOUT OTHER MITIGATING LAYERS, SO CERTAINLY THERE'S INFORMATION OUT THERE THAT WE SUPPLIED OUR DISTRICTS ABOUT WHAT WE THINK OR WHAT THOSE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS THINK VACCINATIONS ARE GOOD FOR.

AND THEY REALLY THINK IT'S PROBABLY THE BEST MITIGATING LAYER BASED ON WHAT THEY'RE SHARING WITH US IN THESE MEETINGS.

SO THAT WOULD BE OUT THERE.

AS FAR AS A LOCAL BATTLE, ONE, I DON'T THINK WE'LL SEE ANY OF OUR SCHOOLS REQUIRE A VACCINE.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE CARDS RIGHT NOW, AT LEAST UNTIL MAYBE SOME OF THE EXPERIMENTAL USE OR THE -- NOT EXPERIMENTAL USE, THE LIMITED AUTHORIZATION THAT THEY'RE UNDER GETS FULL AUTHORIZATION AND EVEN THEN, I THINK IT WILL BE SLOW, WILL BE SOMETHING THAT A POLITICAL SUBDIVISION LIKE A SCHOOL WOULD REQUIRE.

I THINK I CAN SEE SOME INCENTIVES THAT COME OUT OF SOME SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

MAYBE IF SOMEBODY'S BEEN VACCINATED, MEANING A TEACHER, AND THEY HAVE A BREAKTHROUGH COVID CASE, THAT MAYBE THEY WOULD STILL BE GRANTED SOME COVID LEAVE AS OPPOSED TO SOMEBODY WHO MAYBE DIDN'T TAKE THE VACCINE AND THEN HAS A -- OR HAS COVID.

MAYBE THERE WOULD BE SOME INCENTIVES THAT WAY TO LOOK AT WHAT MIGHT BE A WAY TO INCENTIVIZE VACCINES, BUT AGAIN, THERE'S NOBODY OUT THERE THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE THAT.

SAME WITH KIDS.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THINGS WITH KIDS THAT WILL ALLOW F A PARENT WANTS TO SHARE THAT VACCINATED STATUS WITH A SCHOOL, IS AL US WILL THEM TO USE THAT MODIFIED QUARANTINE AND STAY IN SCHOOL EVEN IF THEY'RE IN CLOSE CONTACT, IF BOTH PARTIES HAD A MASK ON, THEY COULD STAY IN SCHOOL IN THAT MODIFIED QUAURN AS LONG AS THEY'RE ASYMPTOMATIC.

I THINK THAT LACK OF DISRUPTION IS A GREAT THINGS FOR KIDS AS WELL AS PARENTS, AS WELL AS TEACHERS, AS WELL AS THE COMMUNITY.

IF WE CAN GET SOME TRACTION ON THAT, I THINK SCHOOLS AGAIN WILL MAKE SURE THAT THEY EMPHASIZE THAT WITH PARENTS.

>> DR. ZIEGLER, I'M THINKING THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS TAKEN UP MORE OF YOUR DAY THAN YOU MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED, BUT TELL OUR VIEWING AUDIENCE A LITTLE MORE ABOUT EDUCATION PLUS, HOW YOU'RE STRUCTURED AND WHAT YOUR MISSION IS BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S BEING -- LIKE A LOT OF THINGS, IT'S BEING DEFLECTED TO THE PANDEMIC AND YOU DO PRESUMABLY A LITTLE MORE THAN THAT.

>> YES, WE'RE A COOPERATIVE OF 54 LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND SIX CHARTER SCHOOLS, AND REALLY, WE DO THREE THINGS.

WE'RE KIND OF THAT NETWORK AND ADVOCACY COMPONENT, MUCH LIKE I TALK ABOUT HAVING THOSE MEETINGS TO SHARE BEST PRACTICE.

WE OFFER PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT BOTH FOR THE LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT AS WELL AS THROUGH A CONTRACT WITH THE STATE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION, AND WE HAVE A COOPERATIVE PURCHASING PLATFORM THAT ALLOWS US TO GO OUT AND BID THINGS THAT THEN SCHOOL DISTRICTS CAN PURCHASE THROUGH IT AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT TO THAT BIDDING PROCESS AND SAVES THEM SOMETIME AND MONEY.

THAT'S OUR BIG PIECES.

WE TOOK ON THE ROLE OF THAT NETWORK DURING THE PANDEMIC AND REALLY WE'VE -- I THINK 60-PLUS WEEKS, WE'VE MET EVERY WEDNESDAY WITH SUPERINTENDENTS ESSENTIALLY TO CREATE A NETWORK OF TALK ABOUT WHAT'S WORKING, WHAT'S NOT WORKING, HOW ARE WE GOING TO APPROACH DIFFERENT THINGS, AND THAT'S REALLY BEEN A STRONG THING FOR OUR REGION BECAUSE NOT ALL REGIONS HAVE THAT.

AND BEING ABLE TO CONNECT AND DO THAT.

AND THEN ON THURSDAYS, WE MEET WITH A WORK GROUP OF SOME SUPERINTENDENTS FROM OECH OF THE COUNTIES AS WELL AS SOME PEDIATRICIANS AND OTHER EPIDEMIOLOGISTS AND THEN SOME PUBLIC HEALTH FOLKS TO REALLY TALK AGAIN, WHAT WOULD THAT GUIDANCE LOOK LIKE IN A BEST CASE SCENARIO.

>> THAT'S A GREAT SERVICE FOR THE COMMUNITY.

IS THAT -- AFTER THE PANDEMIC, IS THIS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT, AS PAINFUL AS THE PANDEMIC HAS BEEN FOR EVERYBODY, THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT TAKE TO THE OTHER SIDE OF IT AS A MODEL FOR OTHER KINDS OF, YOU KNOW, WORK?

>> YEAH, AND ACTUALLY, WE'VE SEEN -- I DON'T WANT TO CALL THEM IMITATORS, BUT IT KIND OF IS IN OTHER REGIONS OF THE STATE.

GREATER OZARK, THAT SPRINGFIELD AREA, HAS AN AGENCY SIMILAR TO US, AS DOES KANSAS CITY.

WE'RE A LITTLE BIT LARGER AND WE'RE OLDER.

WE'VE ACTUALLY BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR 93 YAERS.

>> REALLY?

>> SO I'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF WEIGHT ON MY SHOULDERS TO MAKE SURE I DON'T MESS IT UP.

WE'RE LUCKY IN THAT SENSE THAT WE HAVE A REAL STRONG HISTORY.

>> IF WE TURN BACK THE CLOCK TO THIS TIME IN 2019, TWO YEARS AGO, YOU WERE HEADING INTO THE SCHOOL YEAR AND IF YOU CAN REMEMBER GOING BACK, YOU KNOW, TO THAT POINT, WHAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED AND WHAT WERE THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES OF, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENT DISTRICTS AS YOU HEADED INTO WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE A REGULAR SCHOOL YEAR?

>> YEAH, SO WHEN I THINK BACK ABOUT '19, I THINK THERE WAS A COUPLE THINGS THAT ARE KIND OF MUNDANE, BUT WORRIED ABOUT OFFICIALS.

WE HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING OFFICIALS FOR FOOTBALL AND SOCCER AND SOFTBALL, AND IN TALKING ABOUT HOW WE COULD DO A BETTER JOB OF THAT WAS SOMETHING.

ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT THAT RELEASE OF TESTING AND ASSESSMENT DATA AS IT COMES OUT IN THE FAL.

WE ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW THINGS ABOUT THAT AND HOW WE'RE DOING, HOW THAT COMPARES, HOW WE CAN DO BETTER ON THOSE.

THAT'S ALWAYS A CONSTANT FOCUS.

TRYING TO THINK BACK TO '19 -- OH, VIRTUAL EDUCATION WAS KIND OF NEW TO THE SCENE AND OPENED UP AND EXPANDED SOME OF THAT AND TALKING ABOUT HOW WE WERE PROVIDING ACCESS TO STUDENTS IN A WAY THAT'S MEANINGFUL BECAUSE A LOT OF STUDENTS MAY GRAVITATE TOWARDS VIRTUAL, BUT I MAY NOT ALWAYS BE THE BEST FIT AND MAKING SURE WE HAD GOOD WAYS TO WATCH THAT SUCCESS OR IF THEY WEREN'T BEING SUCCESSFUL, WHAT OTHER THINGS WE COULD DO.

SO A LOT OF TALK AROUND VIRTUAL EDUCATION AT THAT POINT TOO.

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS NEW THAT OPENED UP IN THE STATE THAT FALL.

>> AND IT'S FUNNY -- NOT FUNNY.

THAT'S THE WRONG WORD TO USE, BUT I'VE SAID THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE LEARN SUCH AS I DON'T THINK WE'LL EVER REALLY BE ON TOP OF EACH OTHER LIKE IN THE GROCERY STORE LINE AGAIN AND THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT WE FEEL LIKE, WHY DIDN'T WE DO THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

YOU LEARN SO MUCH ABOUT VIRTUAL LEARNING, GOOD AND BAD, BUT YOU GOT A CRASH COURSE IN IT.

I'M SURE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE HAS COME FORTH THAT WILL HELP IN THE FUTURE WITH JUST, YOU KNOW, HOW SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO HANDLE IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

EVEN MEETINGS WITH OUR SUPERINTENDENTS, WE WILL USE A COMBINATION NOW OF BOTH IN-PERSON AND VIRTUAL.

THE VIRTUALS WILL HAPPEN ON A MORE REGULAR BASIS.

WE ALL LIKE -- WE'RE PEOPLE PEOPLE IN SCHOOLS, SO WE LIKE BEING AROUND EACH OTHER AND SHARING, YOU KNOW, BREAKING BREAD AND DOING THOSE THINGS, BUT REALLY, WE'LL STILL CONTINUE TO USE THE VIRTUAL PLATFORM GOING FORWARD AND THAT'S SOMETHING I WOULD HAVE NEVER DREAMT OF TWO YEARS AGO.

YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST BECOME SO INGRAINED IN WHAT WE DO AND I'LL BE HONEST, IF THERE IS ANY SILVER LINING, WHICH THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT WITH THE PANDEMIC, OUR NETWORK OF SUPERINTENDENTS IS AS STRONG AS IT'S EVER BEEN.

THEY REALLY HAVE BUILT -- A LOT OF TIMES IT WAS HARD TO GET SOMEBODY FROM JEFFERSON COUNTY AND SOMEBODY FROM ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND SOMEBODY FROM LINCOLN COUNTY, BUT WE COULD DO BREAK OUTSESSIONS IN A VIRTUAL GROUP AND THEY COULD TALK THROUGH THINGS AND SEE HOW MUCH COMMONALITY THEY HAVE BETWEEN THREE VERY DIVERSE DISTRICTS, SO IT'S BEEN POWERFUL TO CREATE THAT NETWORK.

>> THIS HAS BEEN SUCH A CONFLUENCE OF STUFF FOR THE SUPERINTENDENTS.

IT'S A CONFLUENCE OF ACUTE HEALTH CONCERNS OF STUDENT AND STAFF AND FACULTY, AND YOU'VE GOT THE POLITICS AND THE SCHOOL BOARD POLITICS PROBABLY AND YOU'VE GOT CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THERE IS GOING TO AFFECT TEST SCORES, YOU KNOW, AS A RESULT OF THIS.

WITHOUT GETTING ANY SPECIFIC CONVERSATIONS, YOU KNOW THESE SUPERINTENDENTS LIKE NOBODY ELSE.

IF YOU HAD TO GENERALIZE, WHAT PART OF THIS KEEPS THEM UP AT NIGHT AT THIS POINT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY'RE REALLY FOCUSING ON THAT REALLY IS THE BIG CONCERN FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION GOING FORWARD AS A RESULT OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH?

>> I THINK WHAT KEEPS THEM UP AT NIGHT IS KEEPING KIDS SAFE.

WE'RE NOT MEDICAL EXPERTS, AND AS YOU SHARED, IT'S BECOME VERY POLITICAL, SO WE FIND OURSELVES IN THIS TENSION BETWEEN MAYBE WHAT -- WE HAD OVER 400 PEDIATRICIANS SIGN OFF ON A LETTER THAT SAID MASKS SHOULD BE IN SCHOOLS AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS TENSION ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT SAYS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE MY KID WEAR A MASK.

AND I THINK HOW THEY CAN HANDLE THAT AND WORK WITH THEIR COMMUNITY TO REALLY KEEP KIDS SAFE KEEPS THEM UP AT FIGHT.

TRULY, THAT'S OUR CHARGE.

HOW DO WE CREATE A LEARNING ENVIRONMENT WHERE KIDS ARE SAFE, RESPECTED, THEY HAVE THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL, HOW DO WE DO THAT?

IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN SO POLITICIZED.

MY COLLEAGUES ARE WORN OUT, I'LL BE HONEST.

I DON'T EXPECT PEOPLE TO FEEL SORRY FOR SUPERINTENDENTS.

WE CLOSE TO DO WHAT THEY DO, BUT THEY ARE, THEY'RE TIRED BECAUSE EVERY TURN IT SEEMS LIKE IN THE PANDEMIC, WHATEVER DECISION THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE, ABOUT HALF THEIR COMMUNITY WAS GOING TO BE UPSET.

WHETHER IT WAS RETURN TO SCHOOL OR NOT RETURN TO SCHOOL, WHETHER IT WAS MASK OR NOT MASK AND I THINK THAT JUST WEARS ON PEOPLE.

JUST THAT CONSTANT WEATHERING OF THIS DECISION IS GOING TO RESULT IN 500 EMAILS, THIS DECISION IS GOING TO RESULT IN 400, AND I THINK IT JUST WEARS ON THEM AND ULTIMATELY, WE WANT TO KEEP KIDS SAFE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE GO BACK TO THE POLITICAL TENSION THAT'S BEEN CREATED, YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS, MANY TIMES I HAD PARENTS COME TO ME AND SAY MY PEDIATRICIAN SAID.

AND THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN LOOKED TO AS A PROFESSION THAT REALLY HAD KIDS' BEST INTEREST, BUT IN THIS CASE WE HAVE 400 OF THEM SAYING OUR BEST COURSE OF ACTION, GIVEN THAT NOT ALL KIDS CAN BE VACCINATED AND WE HAVE A THIRD OF THE DELTA VARIANT IN OUR COMMUNITY, THE BEST THING IS TO WEAR A MASK, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE DISMISS THAT EVEN THOUGH PEDIATRICIANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HELD IN HIGH ESTEEM.

I THINK THEY STRUGGLE WITH THAT AND WHERE TO GET THAT GUIDANCE TO BALANCE IT WITH COMMUNITY IMPPTION.

>> WELL, SUPERINTENDENTS ON THE JOB 20, 25 YEARS, MAYBE A LITTLE SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME, BUT HAVE YOU SEEN IN OUR AREA, LIKE YOU SAY, WHAT YOU COVER WITH EDUCATION PLUS, BUT THERE'S OTHER ORGANIZATIONS LIKE IN KANSAS CITY, I'M SURE YOU HAVE DISCUSSIONS, YOU KNOW, WITH THOSE GROUPS, ARE YOU SEEING SUPERINTENDENTS JUST SAYING I'M DONE WITH THIS?

AND WHEN I SAY THAT, NOT NOT BEING A SUPERINTENDENT, BUT NOT BEING A SUPERINTENDENT AROUND HERE?

ARE WE LOSING SOME GOOD PEOPLE IN THIS STATE AND IN THIS REGION OVER THIS?

>> YEAH K, AND I THINK -- YEAH, AND I THINK MANY TIMES THE SUPERINTENDENTS ARE LEAVING THE PROFESSION ALTOGETHER.

>> OKAY.

>> THEY'VE MADE THE DECISION THAT -- BECAUSE OFTENTIMES, SUPERINTENDENTS ARE VERY WELL EDUCATED AND OFTENTIMES, THEY'VE HAD SOME EXPERIENCES RUNNING LARGE ORGANIZATIONS.

THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WOULD LOOK FOR THAT TYPE OF TALENT BASE AND THEY SAID THERE'S AN EASIER PLACE FOR ME TO WORK AND NOT FEEL THIS TENSION.

I MEAN, IT TOOK A TOLL ON MANY OF OUR -- BECAUSE IT BECOMES VERY PERSONAL FOR ALL OF US.

I MEAN, HEALTH AND SAFETY IS PERSONAL FOR EVERYBODY, AND AS PARENTS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS WEIGH IN WITH THE POLITICS, TOO, ON TOP OF THAT PERSONAL EMOTION OF SAFETY, IT REALLY DID WEAR ON A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES AND YOU SEE IT IN THEM.

AND WE DID HAVE SEVERAL LEAVE LAST YEAR.

I WOULD SAY SOONER THAN THEY WOULD HAVE.

CERTAINLY ALL OF THEM MADE A CHOICE AND IT WAS THE RIGHT ONE FOR THEM, BUT I DO THINK WE LOST SEVERAL LAST YEAR DUE TO JUST THIS TENSION AND THIS ANXIETY AND THE PRESSURE OF TRYING TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE REALLY NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY WITH REGARDLESS.

>> ALL RIGHT, DR. ZIEGLER, IF I CAN TAKE STRANGE POLITICS FOR 25, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT YOUR SUPERINTENDENTS AND POLITICS AND ONE OF THE INESCAPABLE ISSUES OF OUR DAY, IT SEEMS, IS SOMETHING CALLED CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

I'M PRETTY SURE BASED ON -- AND I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT IT.

MOST OF US HADN'T EVEN HEARD OF IT, BUT NOW THAT WE'RE HEARING ABOUT IT A LOT, AND I WAS TALKING TO ALVIN OFF CAMERA ABOUT THIS, PRETTY SURE THAT NONE OF YOUR -- BY DEFINITION, NONE OF YOUR DISTRICTS AT THEIR HIGH SCHOOL S TEACH IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT TAUGHT IN HIGH SCHOOLS BY AND LARGE.

BUT THAT SAID, IS IT ON THEIR RADAR BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT IS GOING SO MUCH NATIONAL AND STATE ATTENTION?

LOCKWOOD AND OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICTS WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE BAN SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T PRESENTLY EXIST NOW.

CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST THING COMES DOWN TO HOW DO YOU DEFINE CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED, CRITICAL RACE THEORY IN MY UNDERSTANDING WAS REALLY A LEGAL CONCEPT TO ALLOW SOMEONE TO LOOK THROUGH A DIFFERENT LENS AT -- WHETHER IT'S LAWS OR PROCESSES OR PROCEDURES WITHIN A COMMUNITY, TO SEE HOW THEY MAY HAVE SOME DISCRIMINATORY PIECES TO THEM BASED ON THE LENS OF WHICH YOU WOULD LOOK AT IT, AND IT REALLY CAME OUT OF LAW SCHOOL.

THAT IS NOT BEING TAUGHT IN OUR SCHOOLS, BUT WHAT I THINK HAS HAPPENED IS PEOPLE HAVE STARTED TO ADD DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION WORK, WHICH IS WORK WE'VE DONE FOR DECADES IN SCHOOLS AND I CAN GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES, AND THEY HAVE ROLLED THAT INTO THIS IDEA THAT IT'S CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

AND IT'S NOT.

DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION ARE THINGS, THE EASIEST I CAN GIVE IS IN 19 -- WHAT WAS IT?

IN 1974, WE PASSED A LAW TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING FOR STUDENTS THAT HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS, AND AT THAT TIME, WE DECIDED WE'RE GOING TO OFFER OTHER SUPPORT, OTHER RESOURCES, MAYBE ADDITIONAL RESOURCES FOR STUDENTS THAT HAD SPECIAL NEEDS TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE ABLE TO ACCESS THE CURRICULUM, THAT THEY WERE INCLUDED IN THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE ENVIRONMENT, AND WE DID THAT AND NOBODY SAID A WORD ABOUT IT.

ANOTHER WAY THAT WE PRACTICED EQUITY AND INCLUSION, THE FREE AND REDUCED LUNCH PROGRAM.

I THINK THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE OUT THERE FEEL GIVING A CHILD THAT NEEDS A NUTRITIOUS MEAL, A MEAL DURING THE SCHOOL DAY IS POSITIVE.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HELPS THEM BE SUCCESSFUL AND WE WANT OUR KIDS TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND LEARN AS MUCH AS THEY CAN.

BUT WHEN THEY START TO ROLL INCLUSION AND DIVERSITY AND EQUITY INTO CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND TRIED TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING SCHOOLS SHOULDN'T BE DOING, WE'LL FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO IT BECAUSE IT'S AN IMPORTANT WAY FOR US TO SUPPORT OUR KIDS.

SO IF IT'S CRITICAL RACE THEORY IN ITS PUREST CONCEPT IS WHAT I WOULD SAY THAT LOOKING AT THINGS THROUGH A LENS THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO RECOGNIZE DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES, NO, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'RE REALLY PRACTICING IN OUR SCHOOLS.

I THINK THERE WAS A RECENT -- OVER 400 SCHOOLS RESPONDED TO A SURVEY BY DESE AND ONE RECOGNIZED THAT THEY WERE USING THAT AS PART OF AN UPPER LEVEL CLASS.

OUTSIDE OF THAT, THERE'S REALLY NOT ANY EVIDENCE THAT IT'S BEING USED IN OUR SCHOOLS, BUT THE OTHER THINGS ARE.

>> AS WE HEAD BACK, I KNOW -- I WOULD THINK MOST -- AND I'LL SAY MIDDLE SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL AGE, MASKS, NO MASK, I BET THOSE KIDS ARE JUST READY TO JUST GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND READY TO GO TO CLASS AND READY TO GO TO FOOTBALL GAMES AND THE BASKETBALL GAMES AND THEIR SOCIAL ACTIVITIES.

ARE YOU FEELING THAT?

THAT EVEN WITH ALL THE POLITICAL BACK AND FORTH AND THE SCHOOL BOARD, SUPERINTENDENTS, THAT KIDS ARE JUST READY TO JUST TRY TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN TO LIVE THEIR LIVES THAT THEY MISSED FOR A COUPLE YEARS.

>> KIDS ARE RESILIENT, YOU KNOW.

THEY REALLY ARE, AND SOMETIMES I THINK WE MAKE ISSUES FOR THEM.

I CAN THINK BACK ABOUT TIMES I'VE HAD TO DO BOUNDARY CHANGES WHEN I WAS A SUPERINTENDENT AND OFTENTIMES THE PARENTS WERE UPSET, BUT THE KIDS WALK INTO A NEW SCHOOL AND NEXT THING THEY KNOW, THEY SAW BOBBY FROM SOCCER AND THEY'RE OFF AND RUNNING AND THE PARENTS ARE STILL UPSET.

SOMETIMES WE MAKE ADULT PROBLEMS KID PROBLEMS AND I THINK THAT'S THE CASE HERE.

KIDS WANT TO BE BACK TOGETHER.

TO BE WANTS TO WEAR A MASK, I DON'T WANT TO WEAR A MASK, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS OUT LOOKING FOR A REASON, BUT IF IT KEEPS KIDS SAFE AND ALLOWS THEM TO BE IN SCHOOL AND NOT DISRUPTEDINGS THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE WITH THEIR FRIENDS, THEY WANT WITH THEIR TEACHER, THEY WANT TO BE SOMEWHAT NORMAL AND THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO NOT HAVE THE DISRUPTIONS IS TO HAVE THE MASK.

I KNOW NOT ALL OUR COMMUNITIES ARE GOING TO DO IT AND I RESPECT THAT.

THEIR CHOICE, THEIR COMMUNITY, AND THEY HAVE TO MAKE THOSE CHOICES, BUT I KNOW THE BEST WAY FOR US TO IMPLEMENT THE MODIFIED QUARANTINE WHERE STUDENTS CAN STAY IN THE CLASSROOM IS WITH ALL KIDS WEARING MASKS.

SO THAT POINT I THINK FOR PARENTS AND FOR KIDS, IF THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO HOME FOR TEN DAYS BECAUSE THEY WERE CLOSE CONTACT WITH -- THAT'S A GOOD THING.

WE WANT TO KEEP THEM AS NORMAL, KEEP THEM IN SCHOOL AS LONG AND AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE, AND IF THAT MEANS WEARING A MASK, I THINK A LOT OF KIDS WOULD SAY PUT ME IN A MASK.

>> ANOTHER QUESTION JUMPED IN MY HEAD WHEN YOU SAID THAT.

IF A SCHOOL DISTRICT -- AND I'M REALLY JUST SAYING A HIGH SCHOOL -- WANTED TO FOLLOW THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUES MODEL AND SAID, OKAY, WE'RE NOT TELLING ANYBODY WHAT TO DO, BUT IF WE GET TO 85%, NOBODY HAS TO WEAR A MASK AND WE CAN REALLY JUST DO EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, THE WAY EVERYBODY WANTS TO DO IT, WOULD THAT BE OUT OF LINE?

HAVE I CROSSED SOME KIND OF, LIKE, EDUCATIONAL ETHICAL LINE OR, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU'RE NOT FORCING ANYBODY, BUT IF THEY JUST PUT THAT OUT THERE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> YOU KNOW, WE LOOKED AT IT A DIFFERENT WAY AND IT WAS DURING EARLY TIME OF THE PANDEMIC AS WE WERE STARTING TO BRING KIDS BACK LAST FALL.

IT WAS REALLY LOOKING AT, HEY, COMMUNITY, IF WE CAN LOWER OUR TRANSMISSION RATE, REDUCE THE NUMBER OF CASES WE HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY, THEN WE CAN MOVE TO MORE NORMAL.

IT NEVER REALLY CAUGHT TRACTION.

I COULD SEE SOME OF THOSE INCENTIVIZED SAYING, HEY, COMMUNITY, IF WE'RE ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS AND I'M ABLE TO ROLL SCHOOL BACK OUT WITHOUT MASKS, I THINK THE INCENTIVE FOR THE VACCINE WOULD PROBABLY BE LOOKED AT BY SOME AS US TRYING TO STRONGARM FOLKS INTO IT.

I THINK IT HAS MERIT IN THAT IF WE KNOW THAT WE HIT CERTAIN THRESHOLDS, THINGS CAN LOOK MUCH MORE NORMAL.

I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'D SEE A COOL DOING IT.

I HAVE HEARD OF SCHOOLS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES INCENTIVIZING IN OTHER WAYS, EVEN OFFERING FINANCIAL REWARDS, I THINK, IN SOME STATES.

I DON'T THINK YOU'LL SEE THAT IN MISSOURI.

THERE'S STILL QUITE A BIT OF KIND OF VACCINE HESITANCY ALL THROUGHOUT THE STATE, FROM RURAL TO URBAN, AND I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR SCHOOL BOARDS TO INDECREE TI VIZE SOMETHING THAT WAY.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA IN THE SENSE OF IF WE GOT THERE, WE REALLY COULD.

I THINK YOU'LL SEE SOME ATHLETES, YOU KNOW, ATHLETICS ARE A STRONG MOTIVATOR AND THE IDEA OF NOT HAVING TO MISS GAMES OR OTHER COMPETITION.

THEY'RE VACCINATED, I THINK MIGHT PROMPT SOME KIDS TO DO THAT AS WELL AND THAT'S PART OF THE GUIDANCE.

>> MAYBE THAT'S WHERE WE START.

PUT THAT OUT THERE.

I'M SURE SOME COACHES ARE PROBABLY HINTING AT THAT.

>> YEAH, I MAY HAVE HEARD A FEW SAY, WELL, IF THEY CAN GET IT NOW, THEY CAN HAVE THEIR SECOND VACCINE IN TIME FOR, YOU KNOW, THE START OF THE SEASON.

I KNOW THAT'S OUT THERE AND I KNOW THAT'S IMPORTANT TO OUR KIDS BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A FABRIC OF WHAT WE DO IN SCHOOLS.

IT'S THE LEARNING AND THE EXTRA EXTRACURRICUL EXTRACURRICULARS, ALL THOSE PIECES THAT MAKE A COMMUNITY AND THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART AND THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO GET THE VACCINE.

>> DOCTOR, I LOVE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE KIDS BECAUSE I'VE HAD PEDIATRICIANS ON THE RADIO SHOW MAKE A POINT THAT THE LITTLE KIDS ESPECIALLY LIKE THE MASKS.

IT'S LIKE HALLOWEEN EVERY DAY AND THEY THINK THEY'RE COOL AND THEY'RE ALL ONE-UPPING EACH OTHER WITH HOW COOL THEIR MASKS ARE, WHICH LEADS ME TO A QUESTION.

A FOLLOW-UP TO ALVIN, WOULD IT BE THE ADMINISTRATORS, TEACHERS, PARENTS OR STUDENTS THE MOST EXCITED ABOUT RETURNING TO SCHOOL AFTER THE PANDEMIC?

>> NO, MY WIFE IS A TEACHER AND SHE WAS ACTUALLY IN-PERSON ALL LAST YEAR.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE MANY TEACHERS THAT ARE GOING TO REALLY FIND GREAT JOY IN THAT START OF SCHOOL.

THERE'S NO DATA -- WELL, AFTER YOU GET THEM OUT OF BED KICKING AND SCREAMING THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL, THERE'S NO MORE DAY MORE EXCITING FOR A TEACHER THAN THEIR FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL.

IT JUST IS.

THEY'RE MEETING THE KIDS, ESTABLISHING THOSE ROUTINES, SO I THINK OUR TEACHERS ARE PROBABLY THE MOST EXCITED ABOUT HAVING SOME SORT OF SENSE OF NORMAL RETURN TO SCHOOL.

I'LL BE HONEST, OUR LEADERS ARE STILL PRETTY ANXIOUS BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN.

THE MAJORITY OF OUR SCHOOLS START AROUND AUGUST 23rd AND THERE'S A LOT OF TIME.

WE'VE WATCHED OVER THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED AND WE MAKE PLANS, AND WE DID THIS LAST SUMMER, IT SEEMED LIKE FOREVER.

WEED MAKE A PLAN AND FIND -- WE'D MAKE A PLAN AND FIND OUT SOMETHING ELSE AND HAVE TO CHANGE AND I KNOW THEY'RE ANXIOUS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, TODAY, AUGUST 5th, AND AUGUST 23rd THAT'S GOING TO MAKE ME HAVE TO REVAMP MY PLAN AND REMESSAGE TO MY TEACHERS AND STUDENTS AND COMMUNITY AND PARENTS.

I THINK THEY JUST GET NERVOUS ABOUT THAT AND I KNOW PARENTS WANT TO GET BACK TOO.

>> I'VE HEARD AT LEAST A COUPLE OF PARENTS THAT ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

>> YEAH.

>> MY WIFE IS A TEACHER, TOO, AND SHE'S -- YOU KNOW, SHE'S READY BECAUSE SHE'S WORKED IN THE SPECIAL SCHOOL DISTRICT OF ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND SHE'S A -- SHE SAID, LOOK, WHEN I HAD TO BE HERE AND DO IT, THAT WAS FINE, BUT I REALLY NEED TO BE THERE AND I NEED TO BE IN CLASS.

I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK MOST TEACHERS AT LEAST, REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT BEING VACCINATED, THEY'RE LIKE I REALLY LIKE DOING MY JOB AND LIKE BEING THERE AROUND THE KIDS.

FIRST DAY IS COMING AND I GOT TO ASK YOU AND YOU CAN SHARE ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT IN THIS LAST MINUTE, BUT MY GUESS IS THAT YOUR LOOKING FORWARD TO THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL THIS YEAR.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE WORKED SO HARD TO TRY AND COME UP WITH WAYS THAT WE CAN GET KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL FACE-TO-FACE, AND WE'VE COME UP WITH WAYS THAT WE CAN MINIMIZE THAT DISRUPTION.

MY LIFE IS EASIER WHEN THEY'RE ALL BACK IN SCHOOL AND NORMAL, BUT THERE'S LESS THINGS I GOT TO DO TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT AND LESS MEETINGS, SO I'M EXCITED FOR OUR TEACHERS AND EXCITED FOR OUR PARENTS.

I'M EXCITED FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

I CONTINUE TO COME TO THE OFFICE PRETTY MUCH EVERY DAY THROUGHOUT -- AND IT'S KIND OF A DIFFERENT FEEL WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE ON THE HIGHWAYS AND PEOPLE AREN'T MOVING AROUND.

IT'S BEEN NICE TO EVEN SEE THAT KIND OF RETURN TO NORMAL, SO I THINK THE CLOSER OUR COMMUNITY CAN GET TO NORMAL, THE BETTER.

STILL A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT WHERE THIS ALL ENDS UP WITH THE NEW VARIANT AND THINGS, BUT I KNOW WE ALL HAVE THAT THIRST TO GET BACK AND BE TOGETHER.

>> I HEARD YOU.

ONE THING I DO DISAGREE WITH YOU ON, I WAS GOING TO WORK AND WHEN THERE WERE NO CARS OUT THERE, THAT WAS FINE WITH ME.

DR. ZIEGLER, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

HEY, HAVE A GREAT SCHOOL YEAR AND EVERYBODY OUT THERE, HAVE A GREAT SCHOOL YEAR.

IT'S GOING TO GET BETTER.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON NEXT UP.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

ON BEHALF OF RAY AND MYSELF, YOU HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.