♪♪ >> Ted: NEXT, WE'LL HEAR ABOUT A DAY LONG EVENT TOMORROW TO CREATE A MORE RESILIENT CULTURE AND THE MARS ROVER AND THE ARIZONA CONNECTIONS AND THE AUTHOR OF A NEW BOOK EXPLAINS WHY PEOPLE SHOULD EXHAUST THEMSELVES TRYING TO BE HAPPY ALL THE TIME.

THAT'S NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

$270,000 APPEARS TO BE MISSING FROM GOVERNOR HOBBS' DISCLOSURE OF MONEY RAISED FOR THE GOVERNOR CEREMONY.

THEY REPORT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORT SHOWS THE MONEY RAISED WAS MORE THAN WHAT THE GOVERNOR PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED.

IN ALL, THEY CLAIM THE GOVERNOR RAISED $1.9 MILLION FOR THE $207,000 EVENT AND THAT ONLY 1.5 MILLION WAS REPORTED.

AND THAT 235 LOBBYISTS, BUSINESSES AND OTHERS FUNDED THE CEREMONY, NOT THE 120 THE GOVERNOR CLAIMED.

THE GOVERNOR SAID SHE'S, QUOTE, GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND AND QUOTE, DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

>>> THERE WAS A RULE REGARDING THE EXECUTIVE NOMINATIONS AND THE CHANGE INVOLVES A NEW COMMITTEE TO REVIEW THE NOMINEES.

THE SENATE PRESIDENT SAYS THE REASON FOR THE COMMITTEE IS THE GOVERNOR'S FAILURE TO SEND OVER REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION OF 23 OF 25 PEOPLE WHO SO FAR HAVE BEEN APPOINTED TO OVERSEE AGENCIES AND ALREADY ON THE JOB.

DEMOCRATS SEE THIS AS A WAY TO SENATE REPUBLICANS FIGHT THE GOVERNOR'S NOMINEES AND THE FIRST HEARING INVOLVING THE NEWLY CREATED COMMITTEE WILL BE HELD A WEEK FROM TODAY.

AND REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN DAVID DAVID SCHWEIKERT IS LEAVING AND NOW SCHWEIKERT SAYS THE FREEDOM CAUCUS HE HELPED FORM IS BEING CONFUSED WITH ARIZONA'S FREEDOM CAUCUS WHICH HE DESCRIBES AS POPULIST AND NOT TRULY CONSERVATIVE AND HE IS TIRED OF THE CONFUSION AND AS SUCH, SCHWEIKERT SAYS HE'S OUT.

>>> A DAY-LONG EVENT IN PHOENIX TOMORROW FOCUSES ON A CIVIC CULTURE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY AND INCLUDES RESEARCH CONDUCTED TO STRENGTHEN IDEALS AND WE SPOKE TO A CO-SHARE BEHIND THE RESEARCH, ERIC JUIC, ON THE PRACTICE OF DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP.

ERIC, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

YOUR COCHAIR AND THE PRACTICE OF DEMOCRATIC CITIZENSHIP AND A DAY-LONG EVENT ON FRIDAY TO CREATE A MORE RESILIENT CIVIC CULTURE AND WHY WHY DOES CIVIC CULTURE NEED TO BE MORE RESILIENT?

>> I NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS COMMISSION, A PROJECT THAT UNFOLDED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IT WAS SPONSOR BY THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF ARTS AND SCIENCES AND WE PULLED TOGETHER AN INCREDIBLE BIPARTISAN GROUP OF PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTITIONERS AND SCHOLARS AND 31 RECOMMENDATIONS OF THINGS YOU ALL IN ARIZONA HAVE BEEN PIONEERS, LIKE REDISTRICTING COMMISSIONS AND THINGS LIKE WAYS TO GET THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN PATIESBUDGETS AND GOVERNMENT AND WE HAD A WHOLE SET THAT WERE ABOUT CULTURE AND OUR VIEW WAS THAT THERE'S ALWAYS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE HEALTH OF OUR POLITICAL INSTITUTION AND THE HEALTH OF OUR POLITICAL CULTURE.

IF ALL WE FOCUS IS ON INSTITUTIONS AND THE RULES AND THE BUILDINGS, BUT WE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE NORMS, THE HABITS, THE VALUES, THE WAY WE DEAL WITH EACH OTHER IN COMMUNITY AND IN PUBLIC, THEN WE'RE ONLY DEALING WITH HALF THE PROBLEM.

WE SEE A REAL OPPORTUNITY ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, AND ESPECIALLY IN ARIZONA TO HIGHLIGHT PRACTICE PRACTITIONERS IN WHICH PEOPLE SEE EACH OTHER IN HUMANIZED WAYS AND DEAL WITH MORE RESPONSIBLE WAYS TO BUILD TOGETHER.

>> Ted: THIS IS A RENEWED COMMITMENT TO CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY.

JUST THE IDEA THERE'S A RENEWED COMMITMENT AND I THINK THAT WOULD FLOOR SOME PEOPLE.

>> I THINK IT WOULD FLOOR SOME PEOPLE AND TO A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE, YEAH, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE LOST FAITH IN OUR DEMOCRACY ACROSS THE SPECTRUM AND YOU ALL SAW THAT IN AN ELECTION CYCLE IN YOUR STATE AND PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES THINKING, HEY, THIS WHOLE THING IS BROKEN AND WHY SHOULD I BOTHER PARTICIPATING.

OUR BELIEF THE THING ABOUT DEMOCRACY, IT WORKS ONLY IF ENOUGH OF US BELIEVE IT WORKS.

IT'S THAT FRAGILE AND WE HAVE TO RENEW A SENSE OF NOT JUST UNTHINKING BELIEF AND COMMITMENT LIKE, OH, THIS IS GREAT AND I THINK DEMOCRACY WILL BE AWESOME, BUT RATHER A QUESTIONING KIND OF FAITH THAT SAYS IT WILL ONLY WORK IF I SHOW UP AND PARTICIPATE AND IF I ASK QUESTIONS BUT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANSWERING THE THINGS THAT I RAISE AND FOR FIXING THE THINGS I SEE ARE BROKEN.

>> Ted: BUT ERIC, IT SEEMS IT'S IMPORTANT TO ASK QUESTIONS, YES, BUT LISTEN TO, TOO, AND AS YOU MENTION, REACH ACROSS THE AISLE AND DO THINGS IN COOPERATION WITH OTHERS.

HERE IN ARIZONA, WE DIDN'T SEE A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT IN THIS LAST ELECTION CYCLE.

IT HASN'T BURNED OFF VERY WELL AND HOW DO YOU GET TO THAT STATE?

>> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO DO IS IN BETWEEN ELECTION CYCLES TO REMEMBER THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL PEOPLE.

AND RELATIONSHIPS CAN BE BUILT BETWEEN HUMANS.

IF YOU COME AT EACH OTHER AS, OH, YOU'RE THE AVATAR OF THIS PARTY AND THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT PERSON AND YOU'RE WEARING THIS COLOR HAT OR THAT COLOR T-SHIRT, I'LL FLATTEN YOU FROM A THREE DIMENSIONAL HUMAN INTO A CARICATURE BUT IF WE CAN BE ROOTED IN COMMUNITY AND RELATIONSHIP AND DEAL WITH EACH OTHER AND SAY, WE WON'T AGREE ON A BUNCH OF THINGS, THAT'S OK.

BUT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SEE THE WORLD THE WAY YOU DO AND WHAT EXPERIENCES AND WHAT MENTORS AND TRIUMPHS SHAPED YOUR WORLD VIEW.

AS YOU TELL ME THAT, I'M FIND SOMETHING I HAVE IN COMMON WITH YOU.

I MAY NOT END UP IN THE SAME PLACE WITH HOW WE FEEL ABOUT A HOT BUTTON ISSUE, BUT TO HUMANIZE THAT WAY IS POSSIBLE ON THE GROUND.

AND THERE ARE SO MANY ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS ARIZONA THAT RULE ARIZONA AS WELL AS IN THE CITIES AND WHO ARE DOING THIS WORK RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE COMING TO THE STATE TO HIGHLIGHT IS ALL OF THE BOTTOM-UP CIVIC RENEWAL EVEN THOUGH IT'S TOXIC.

>> Ted: 31 RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE RUBRIC'S, EMPOWERED VOTERS, RESPONSIVE GOVERNMENT AND MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE, LET'S GO IN THAT DIRECTION.

HOW DO YOU GO IN THAT DIRECTION?

>> WELL, IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU ACTUALLY INVITE PEOPLE INTO THE CONVERSATION.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS WHO LOOK AT THE NATIONAL POLITICS AND CIVIC LIFE AND SAY, WELL, IT'S BROKEN AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN.

THIS IS WHY OUR PARTNERS IN ARIZONA, THE FLYNN FOUNDATION HAVE CONVENED THIS DEPARTING ON FRIDAY TO GET CATALYTIC LEADERS FROM ALL DIFFERENT SECTORS IN ARIZONA WHO ARE SHOWING UP AND DOING SOME OF THE REPAIR WORK.

AND THEY CAN SHARE NOTES WITH EACH OTHER AND HIGHLIGHT HOW THEY'RE DOING IT AND START SPREADING A POSITIVE CONTAGION OF CAN-DO RATHER THAN HOPELESS AND THAT'S HOW IT HAS TO BEGIN, FROM THE BOTTOM UP AND MIDDLE OUT, THAT TAKING OF RESPONSIBILITY.

RECOMMITTING TO REBUILDING A SENSE OF TRUST AND THAT KNOCK IS IF WE CAN LIVE AND LEARN AND COMPROMISE OVER HARD ISSUES, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A SHOT AT MAKING THIS EXPERIMENT LAST OTHER ROUND.

>> Ted: ERIC, GREAT CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU, TED.

>> Ted: UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, IMAGES FROM MARS AND THEIR CONNECTION TO ARIZONA.

>> Ted: AMONG THE INSTRUMENTS TAKING THE IMAGES ARE TWO MAST-CAM-Z AND JOINING US IS DR. BELL, A PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR FOR THE MAST-CAM-Z AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME BACK.

>> Ted: LET'S DEFINE TERMS.

THE MARS 2020 PERSEVERANCE RECOVER, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> NASA'S LATEST ROVER AND ABOUT THE SIZE OF A MINI-COOPER AND A BIG VEHICLE AND WEIGHS A METRIC TON AND THE MAIN GOAL IS TO FIND AND COLLECT SAMPLES OF ROCKS AND SOILS AND ATMOSPHERE THAT WILL EVENTUALLY WITH FUTURE MERCKS MISSIONS COME BACK TO THE EARTH.

>> Ted: THIS LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE PARTS OF ARIZONA, FOR GOODNESS SAKES, DOESN'T IT?

TALK TO US ABOUT WHY THESE CAMERAS ARE SO SPECIAL.

>> SO WE WON A COMPETITION BACK IN 204 2014 OR SO TO PUT THE SCIENCE CAMERAS, HIGH RESOLUTION CAMERAS ON NASA'S ROVER AND THESE ARE ZOOM CAMERAS, TWO OF THEM, ABOUT SIX FEET OR SO ABOVE THE GROUND AND TWO SO WE CAN MAKE STAIR STEREO, LEFT AND RIGHT, AND THEY'RE ZOOM LENSES, FROM A WIDE ANGLE AND SPAGHETTI ANGLE VIEWS ALL THE WAY TO TELEPHOTOS TO ZOOM IN ON DISTANT FEATURES OR TINY LITTLE ROCK CHUNKS OR SAND DUNES OR WHATEVER AND GET THE IMAGES IN STEREO AT WHATEVER SCALE WE LIKE.

SO IT'S A VERY ROBUST SET OF CAMERAS THAT THEY CAN IMAGE IN THE SAME COLORS THAT WE CAN SEE WITH OUR EYES AND GO INTO THE INFRARED TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CERTAIN KINDS OF ROCKS AND MINERALS WITH THAT WITH THAT INFRARED VISION.

>> Ted: YOUR JOB, BASICALLY, TO INTERPRET WHAT THESE IMAGES ARE?

>> YEAH, WELL OUR JOB, WE HAVE A TEAM OF SOME 20 PEOPLE IN ARIZONA AND WE COLLABORATE WITH COLLEAGUES AT A SMALL BUSINESS IN SAN DIEGO, AS WELL.

OUR JOB IS TO HELP FIGURE OUT WHAT TO TAKE PICTURES OF WITH THE REST OF THE SCIENCE TEAM, 500 SCIENTISTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD AND THEN COLLECT THE IMAGES WHEN THEY COME DOWN THROUGH MAR'S DEEP SPACE NETWORK AND DO THE PROCESSING CALIBRATION AND STITCH THEM INTO THE BEAUTIFUL MOSAICS LIKE YOU JUST SAW.

AND ON THE SCIENCE SIDE, WHAT IS THIS TELLING US ABOUT WHAT USED TO BE A LIKE A LONG TIME AGO ON THE RED PLANET?

>> Ted: JUST AMAZING TO THINK ABOUT A LAKE ON MARS.

SOME SPECIFIC PHOTOGRAPHS AND THIS SHOWS A ROCK AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG FROM THE INFORMATION I'VE GOT, MAYBE EVIDENCE OF LAVA FLOW?

>> YEAH, YOU CAN SEE THAT RIDGY, ROPEY TEXTURE AND IN HAWAII OR ICELAND AND THIS WAS SOMEWHAT OF A SURPRISE AND WE'RE ON THE FLOOR OF A CRATER WHERE THERE WAS A BUNCH OF WATER AND IT WAS A LAKE.

WE WERE EXPECTING TO SEE NICE, FINE MUD STONES AND SEDIMENTARY ROCKS AND WE FIND THIS ONE.

SO PROBABLY WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT THOSE SEDIMENTS WERE FROM A LONG TIME AGO AND SINCE THEN, THERE HAVE BEEN SUBSEQUENT VOLCANIC ERUPTION.

WE CAN SEE THESE IN THE ROCKS AND PUT THAT STORY OF THE HISTORY OF THIS PLACE BACK TOGETHER.

>> Ted: SPEAKING OF DETAILS, THE NEXT PHOTO SHOWS A CORE SAMPLE AND THESE ARE HOW CORE SAMPLES ARE TAKEN AND TALK TO US ABOUT THIS PROCESS.

>> THERE'S NASA'S PREVIOUS ROVER, "THE CURIOSITY ROVER" AND STILL WORKING GREAT AT A DRILL AND PERSEVERE PERSEVERANCE AND PLUCKS OUT A CORE THE SIZE OF A PIECE OF CHALK IF ANY VIEWER REMEMBERS WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

SIX DIFFERENT CORES THAT WERE TAKEN IN THREE DIFFERENT ROCKS.

SOME OF THEM YOU CAN SEE ARE CHUNKY AND VERY COARSE AND SOME SUPER FINE AND WE THINK HERE WE HAVE SAMPLES OF SOME OF THESE MUD STONES OR SAND STONES THAT WERE ON THIS CRATER FLOOR AND IN THE DELTA, A DELTA FROM A RIVER INTO THE CRATER THAT DEPOSITED THESE SEDIMENTS.

SO WE HAVE THESE SAMPLES NOW.

THE ARM PUTS THESE INSIDE THE ROVER AND SAMPLE TUBES THAT HOLDS THESE CORING BITS.

>> Ted: THE THIRD PHOTOGRAPH SHOWS A TUBE ON THE GROUND AND THIS LOOKS LIKE A VACANT LOT IN THE VALLEY WITH DEBRIS LEFT AND THAT IS THE FLOOR OF MARS AND THAT'S THE TUBE.

>> EXACTLY.

SO THAT IS ONE OF THE SAMPLE TUBES AND THE ROVER IS CARRYING ABOUT 40 OF THEM AND FOR SCALE, ABOUT THE SIZE OF A TYPICAL DRY ERASE PEN.

INSIDE THAT MARKER PEN IS THAT PIECE OF CHALK THAT HAS THE ROCKY SAMPLE.

AND SO WE'VE COLLECTED ABOUT 20 OF THESE SO FAR AND WE JUST FINISHED A PROCESS OF PUTTING TEN OF THEM, DROPPING TEN ON THE SURFACE TO BE PICKED UP BY A FUTURE MISSION.

THE PLAN WOULD BE FOR THE ROVER HOLDING THEM TO GO COLLECT MORE OVER THE COMING YEARS AND DELIVER THEM TO A SAMPLE OR AT THE END OF THE DECADE AND IN CASE THE ROVER DOESN'T SURVIVE, WE AT LEAST HAVE THESE TEN VERY WELL SELECTED REALLY INTERESTING GEOLOGICAL SAMPLES AND A WITNESS SAMPLE THAT COULD BE PICKED UP BY THAT SAMPLE RETURN MISSION AND BROUGHT BACK TO THE EARTH.

>> Ted: WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED SO FAR FROM THESE SAMPLE, FROM THE MISSION AND EVERYTHING INVOLVED?

>> WE'RE DRIVING AROUND IN A PLACE WHERE THE ENVIRONMENT WAS A LOT MORE EARTH-LIKE A LONG TIME AGO AND WE'RE SEEING LOTS OF COMPLEX GEOLOGY, EVIDENCE OF THIS RIVER FLOWING DOWN THE SIDE OF THE CRATER, DEPOSITING NEW SEDIMENTS ON THE CRATER FLOOR, CREATING THIS DELTA LIKE AT THE END OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER HERE ON EARTH.

AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY VOLCANIC COVERING THAT AND CHURNING THAT UP AND IMPACT POUNDING THAT AND IT'S BEEN INTERESTING.

BITS OF ROCK WE'VE BEEN HOPING TO BRING BACK IN FUTURE MISSIONS, THEY'RE TELLING US ABOUT THAT ANCIENT ENVIRONMENT AND HABITABLE ENVIRONMENT.

WE THINK FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR AND WHAT OTHER ROVERS THAT MARS WAS HABITABLE IN THE PAST, MUCH MORE EARTH-LAKE IN THE DISTANT PAST BUT THE QUESTION IS, WAS IT INHABITED?

THE SAMPLES MIGHT CONTAIN THAT EVIDENCE AND WE HAVE TO GET THEM INTO THE GREAT LABS THAT WE HAVE AT ASU AND OTHER PLACES AROUND THE WORLD.

>> Ted: GREAT STUFF AND JIM BELL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> GREAT TO TALK TO YOU,.

THANKS.

TED.

THANKS.

>> Ted: BEST-SELLING NORA McINERNY IS OUT ON THE MIXED BLESSING OF MIDDLE AGE.

IT ENCOURAGES READERS TO, AMONG OTHER THINGS, DROP THE FACADE OF PERFECTION.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Ted: THIS IS LIKE A SELF-HELP BOOK AND A DIFFERENT KIND OF SELF-HELP BOOK.

>> IF YOU FIND HELP IN THIS BOOK, I'M ALMOST WORRIED FOR YOU.

[ Laughter ] >> I TRIED ALMOST THE OPPOSITE OF A SELF-HELP BOOK AND AS A PERSON WHO HAS AT VARIOUS POINTS IN MY LIFE BEEN DEVOTED TO SELF-HELP AND ASSUMED THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH ME THAT NEEDED FIXING.

>> Ted: I THINK YOU DESCRIBE THIS AS AGGRESSIVE OPTIMISM AND WHAT GOT YOU WITH THIS IDEA?

>> YOU DON'T NOTICE IT UNTIL IT'S ANTITHETICAL TO THE WAY YOUR LIFE IS.

AMERICA IS BUILT ON OPTIMISM AND WE LOVE AN UNDERDOG AND SOMEBODY WHO CAN PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS AND A CINDERELLA STORY.

WHEN YOUR LIFE FALLS APART AS MINE DID SEVERAL YEARS AGO, YOU START TO SEE MAYBE THE STORIES AREN'T THAT SIMPLE AND NEIGHBOR NOT THAT SETBACK IS THAT AND THAT'S THE WHOLE STORY OR THE WHOLE LESSON.

>> Ted: AS MUCH AS YOU'RE COMFORTABLE, TALK ABOUT HOW YOUR LIFE FELL APART.

>> SPECTACULARLY AND ALMOST IN EVERY WAY,.

I WAS 31 YEARS OLD WHEN MY HUSBAND DIED OF BRAIN CANCER OUT OF OUR FOUR YEARS.

HE DIED SIX WEEKS AFTER MY DAD DIED OF CANCER.

MY DAD DIED EIGHT DAYS AFTER I LOST MY SECOND PREGNANCY.

AND THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD TRIFECTA, I WOULD SAY OF TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE THINGS.

ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, AFTER ALL OF THAT HAPPENED, LITERALLY AT MY HUSBAND'S FUNERAL, 31, A TODDLER, NO JOB.

I HAVE A BUNCH OF MEDICAL DEBT AND I CANNOT SLEEP, I CANNOT EAT AND PEOPLE ARE ASKING HOW I WAS.

HOW ARE YOU?

PEOPLE ASK ME THAT END OF DAY AND WHAT DO YOU SAY, NO MATTER WHAT.

FINE.

I'M STANDING THERE AT A FUNERAL AND YEAH, GOOD, WHAT'S NEW WITH YOU.

[ Laughter ] >> Ted: BUT IT'S ONE THING TO GO THROUGH THIS AND MY GOODNESS AND ONE THING TO GET THROUGH IT.

BUT IT'S ENOUGH THING TO PUT IT ON THE STREET, IF YOU WILL, TO MAKE IT PUBLIC.

FIRST OF ALL, WAS IT DIFFICULT GOING PUBLIC WITH THIS?

>> WE LIVE OUR LIVES PUBLICALLY WHETHER OR NOT WE KNOW IT AND ALWAYS SOMEONE WATCHING AND THAT WAS TRUE IN 2014.

I HAVE INSTAGRAM AS MANY KNOW AND I HAD FACEBOOK AND I HAD THE INTERNET.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED ME WERE FRIENDS AND FAMILY AT THE TIME, BUT I WAS STILL TALKING ABOUT MY LIFE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE IT WAS EASIER THAN SENDING A MASS EMAIL.

I WAS EASIER THAN A GROUP TEXT.

I ALWAYS FORGOT MY BROTHER ON THE MASS EMAIL, THE CLOSEST ONE.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR?

[ Laughter ] >> IT WAS BAD, OH, NO, IT'S BACK.

I WAS DOING IT PUBLICALLY REGARDLESS.

I WAS DOING IT PUBLICALLY AT THE GROCERY STORE.

WHEN YOU RUN INTO AN OLD ACQUAINTANCE AND WELL, THINGS HAVE BEEN BETTER AND I GOT MANY MESSAGES AFTER MY HUSBAND DIED AND WOMAN WHO WENT THROUGH SIMILAR THINGS, LIKE I WISH I WAS DOING BERT BETTER AND WELL LIKE YOU.

I WAS PRESENTING SUCH A GOOD FACADE.

>> Ted: THAT'S INTERESTING, OK.

SO THAT FACTORS IN THERE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT THIS AND REVISITING ALL OF THESE, HOW DIFFICULT WAS THAT?

>> IN A LOT OF WAYS, I DON'T KNOW HOW ES IT COULD ELSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN.

I'VE BEEN A JOURNALLER AND I THOUGHT, THAT'S WHAT I'LL DO.

>> Ted: IT WASN'T TRAUMATIC GOING BACK AND REVISITING AND RETHINKING AND REFEELING?

>> SOMETIMES.

SOMETIMES IT'S BEEN PAINFUL BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN NECESSARILY DETRIMENTAL TO GET IT OUT THERE AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE TITLES OF MY BOOKS, THEY BEG THE QUESTION, IS THIS WOMAN OK?

MY SECOND WAS "IS THIS WOMAN OK"?

THIS IS CALLED "BAD VIBES ONLY."

THINK THEY IT ALL HAS TO BE GOOD.

AND IN SOME WAYS, THE WORK THAT I DO NOW IS ALMOST A PENANCE FOR EVERY LIE I TOLD WHEN IT WAS BAD.

>> Ted: YOUR SITTING AT A FUNERAL AND HOW ARE YOU DOING AND WE GET THAT IDEA, BUT WHAT MAKES US THAT WAY?

WHY IS THERE THAT AGGRESSIVE OPTIMISM OUT THERE?

>> I THINK WE'RE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH SOMEONE'S DISCOMFORT.

I KNOW I HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST AND WANTED TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD WHEN THAT'S NOT THE SITUATION CALLED FOR.

I KNOW I'VE WANTED OTHER PEOPLE TO BE OK SO I DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEM AND I THINK, WHO DOESN'T PREFER TO BE HAPPY?

IT'S VERY NATURAL.

WE'RE CREATURES OF COMFORT AND WE WANT TO SEEK THE SOFT LANDING IF WE CAN.

WE WANT THAT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE WALKING UP TO YOU AT A FUNERAL AND SAYING SOMETHING, HOPING IT WILL HURT YOUR FEELINGS.

I DON'T THINK THAT.

IT'S THE MOST NORMAL THING IN THE WORLD TO BELIEVE THAT WE WHAT SAY IS SOMEHOW GOING TO HELP IT.

>> Ted: IT'S THE BEST THING THEY CAN DO.

>> IT'S THE BEST YOU CAN DO AND I'VE LEARNED THAT WHAT WE SAY IS REALLY NOT AS IMPORTANT AS JUST SHOWING UP, SHOWING UP AND SHUTTING UP.

>> Ted: SO WITH THAT IN MIND, WHAT REACTION ARE YOU GETTING FROM THE BOOK?

>> PEOPLE LOVE THE BOOK.

NOT EVERYONE LOVES THE BOOK.

THIS BOOK IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY.

IF YOU WRITE A BOOK FOR ERB, I EVERYBODY, I WANT TO MEET YOU.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WROTE, BUT I DO THINK THAT AFTER ESPECIALLY THE PAST FEW YEARS, MORE PEOPLE ARE TIRED, RIGHT, ARE TIRED OF PRETENDING AND TIRED OF FAKING IT, ARE TIRED OF SMALL TALK.

PEOPLE ALSO WANT TO LAUGH ABOUT THESE THINGS, LAUGH ABOUT THE ABSURDITY OF IT ALL.

THERE'S ESSAYS IN THERE ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE SO DEEPLY EMBARRASSING TO ME, THAT ARE STILL A PART OF MY LIFE, STILL A PART OF MY HISTORY.

>> Ted: "BAD VIBES ONLY."

I COULD TALK TO YOU ALL DAY ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR SORE.

>> I'LL COME BACK TOMORROW OR THE NEXT DAY.

>> Ted: YOU'RE ON.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING!