>> Gene: AT VALLES CALDERA,  THE NATIONAL PARK’S SERVICE IS TRYING TO BALANCE ACCESS  WITH PROTECTING WILDLIFE AND ECOSYSTEMS, AND CHANGES  MIGHT BE COMING SOON.

LAST WEEK WE HEARD FROM  WATCHDOG TOM RIBE FROM CALDERA ACTION.

THIS WEEK, OUR LAND’S LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH VALLES  CALDERA NATIONAL PRESERVE SUPERINTENDENT JORGE SILVA  BAÑUELOS AS THE PARK SERVICE WORKS ON A NEW MANAGEMENT  PLAN FOR THE SPECIAL SPOT IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS.

>> Laura: HI, AND WELCOME.

>> Silva: THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: SO YOU OVERSEE  WHAT'S ARGUABLY ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SPOTS IN NEW  MEXICO, 89,000 ACRES IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS.

AND NATIONAL PARK SERVICE OVERSEES IT NOW, BUT IT HAS  A LONG HISTORY WITH VARIED MANAGEMENT.

WHAT HAS MADE MANAGEMENT OF THIS AREA SO COMPLICATED, OR  WHAT MAKES IT UNIQUE?

>> Silva: YOU KNOW, I  AGREE, IT'S A VERY INSPIRING LOCATION.

THE LANDSCAPE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST STUNNING IN  NEW MEXICO, AND HAVING GROWN UP IN ALBUQUERQUE, I'VE HAD  THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL ALL AROUND NEW MEXICO AND  THIS IS BY FAR MY FAVORITE PLACE AND WHY I'M SO  PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS LOCATION.

IT HAS A REALLY INTERESTING HISTORY DATING BACK INTO THE  19th CENTURY WHEN IN ABOUT 1860, IT BECAME A PRIVATE  LAND HOLDING, AND IT'S BEEN UNDER KIND OF DISPUTE OVER  HOW IT'S MANAGED EVER SINCE.

THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE  FIRST TRIED TO ACQUIRE VALLES CALDERA IN 1898, AND  OVER THE CENTURIES THEY TRIED MULTIPLE TIMES, AND IT  WASN'T UNTIL 2015, OR 2014 THAT THAT OCCURRED.

BUT OVER THAT TIME, I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF  DIFFERENT INTERESTS, WHETHER FROM PRIVATE RANCH  LANDOWNERS TO DIFFERENT FEDERAL AGENCIES INTERESTED  IN IT, TO STATE GOVERNMENTS INTERESTED IN MANAGING IT,  TO TRIBAL ENTITIES INTERESTED IN OWNING AND  MANAGING IT.

SO I THINK THAT JUST -- FOR  ME, THAT TENDS TO INDICATE HOW SPECIAL IT IS, THAT SO  MANY PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE THAT THE  LONG-TERM FUTURE IS PROTECTED FOR IT.

>> Laura: BACK WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS  GETTING READY TO BUY THE PRIVATE RANCH, I WAS PRETTY  EXCITED BECAUSE I HAD KIND OF PEERED INTO THOSE LANDS  FOR A LONG TIME, AND I HAVE TO ADMIT I STILL AM NOT  QUITE SURE -- AND I'M LIKE PRETTY SAVVY ABOUT PUBLIC  LANDS AND RECREATION.

I'M STILL NOT QUITE SURE,  LIKE, WHAT MY OPPORTUNITIES ARE FOR DOING COOL THINGS AT  VALLES CALDERA.

>> Silva: WELL, I THINK THE  PARK WEBSITE IS PROBABLY THE FIRST PLACE TO LOOK AT WHAT  ALL WE OFFER CURRENTLY, GIVEN THOSE LIMITATIONS WITH  INFRASTRUCTURE AND SERVICES.

BUT RIGHT NOW, A LOT OF  THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE RELATED TO SELF-GUIDED  RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES.

WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF MILES OF  HIKING TRAILS THAT ARE ALSO OPEN TO HORSEBACK RIDING AS  WELL AS MOUNTAIN BIKING.

THAT TENDS TO BE A LITTLE  BIT UNIQUE WITHIN THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM.

MOST NATIONAL PARKS DON'T ALLOW MOUNTAIN BIKING EXCEPT  ON PAVED ROADS.

BUT TO SOME DEGREE, WE'RE  TRYING TO MAKE LEMONADE OUT OF LEMONS.

THE PRIVATE LAND USE HISTORY IS CHOCK FULL OF EXAMPLES OF  EXPLOITATION OF THIS LANDSCAPE.

WE HAVE OVER A THOUSAND MILES OF LOGGING ROADS FROM  THE 20th CENTURY.

A LOT OF THOSE LOGGING ROADS END UP BEING VERY SUITABLE  FOR SOMETHING LIKE MOUNTAIN BIKING THAT ISN'T GOING TO  CREATE ANYMORE DISTURBANCES OR IMPACTS TO NATURAL  CULTURAL RESOURCES.

SO THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT  OPPORTUNITY THAT WE CAN PROVIDE THAT OTHERS CANNOT.

WE ALSO HAVE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES WITH OUR  INTERPRETIVE PROGRAMMING.

WE'RE STARTING TO BUILD THAT  UP WHERE WE'RE PROVIDING RANGER LED TALKS AND WALKS,  AS WELL AS MORE NONPERSONAL EXHIBITS OUT IN THE  LANDSCAPE TO SHARE WHY THIS PLACE IS MORE THAN JUST A  PRETTY LANDSCAPE, BUT HAS DEEP HISTORICAL ROOTS IN NEW  MEXICO, WHY IT'S OF INCREDIBLY SACRED AND  CEREMONIAL IMPORTANCE TO NUMEROUS AMERICAN INDIAN  TRIBES AND PUEBLOS, AND THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE  ALSO HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE ARE DEVELOPING  RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES, THAT WE'RE BALANCING THE  PRESERVATION OF THOSE VALUES.

>> Laura: YOU'VE BEEN GETTING SOME PUSHBACK FOR A  NEW ONLINE RESERVATION SYSTEM.

THAT'S 35 DAILY BACK COUNTRY VEHICLE PERMITS.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO  VISIT?

>> Silva: WELL, IN 2021, WE  HAD ABOUT 76,000 VISITORS, AND FROM OUR VISITATION  STATISTICS IN 2015, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TAKING OVER AS  THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, WE ESTIMATED THERE WERE  ABOUT 30,000.

SO WE'VE SEEN A MARKED  INCREASE ALREADY.

I BELIEVE THAT'S GOING TO  CONTINUE TO GROW, PARTICULARLY AFTER WE  IMPROVE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND SERVICES.

BUT THERE'S A BALANCE, AS I'VE SHARED BEFORE.

WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO WITH OUR GENERAL MANAGEMENT  PLAN RIGHT NOW IS FIRST LOOK AT OUR ZONING MANAGEMENT,  AND THIS IS SIMILAR TO ANY  CITY OR TOWN WHERE YOU IDENTIFY WHERE IS THERE  RESIDENTIAL ZONING, WHERE IS THERE COMMERCIAL, WHERE IS  INDUSTRIAL, AND YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO MIX  THOSE.

IN THE NATIONAL PARK  SERVICE, WE DO A SIMILAR TYPE OF ZONING MANAGEMENT,  AND WE'VE IDENTIFIED CERTAIN AREAS IN A PRELIMINARY  FASHION WHERE WE WANT TO FOCUS MORE ON THAT VISITOR  ENGAGEMENT ZONE WHERE MOST OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, MOST  OF OUR VISITOR SERVICES ARE GOING TO BE LOCATED.

AND THEN AS YOU BRANCH OUT FROM THOSE LOCATIONS, YOU  HAVE A SELF-GUIDED ZONE AND THEN A BACK COUNTRY  SELF-RELIANCE ZONE.

AND THE FARTHER YOU GO FROM  THESE VISITOR ENGAGEMENT ZONES, THE LESS  INFRASTRUCTURE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, THE MORE PRIMITIVE,  THE MORE WILD EXPERIENCE.

AND FOR OUR BACK COUNTRY  SELF-RELIANCE ZONE, WE'RE FRANKLY NOT PRIORITIZING  HUMAN USES, WE'RE PRIORITIZING ECOSYSTEM  SERVICES, WILDLIFE HABITAT, PLANT HABITAT, AND ALL OF  THOSE THINGS THAT MAKE THIS PLACE EXTREMELY SPECIAL.

SO WHEN YOU GO OUT INTO THE BACK COUNTRY, WE DON'T WANT  IT TO BECOME A DISNEYLAND.

WE'VE HEARD MANY, MANY TIMES  OVER THE YEARS, THIS PLACE IS SO SPECIAL, WE DON'T WANT  IT TO BE LOVED TO DEATH.

AND SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE  TRYING TO FOCUS MORE OF OUR VISITATION IN OUR FRONT  COUNTRY WHERE WE CAN HAVE MORE INFRASTRUCTURE,  CONCENTRATE VISITORS, CONCENTRATE ANY IMPACTS THAT  THOSE VISITORS MAY HAVE, AND LEAVE THE VAST MAJORITY OF  THE PRESERVE IN A MORE PRIMITIVE WILD STATE.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO OUR BACK COUNTRY VEHICLE PASS, WE  WANTED TO MOVE IT ON TO ONLINE RESERVATION SERVICE  SO WHETHER YOU'RE COMING FROM ALBUQUERQUE OR  ANCHORAGE, ALASKA, YOU HAVE THE SAME ABILITY TO RESERVE  AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THAT BACK COUNTRY EXPERIENCE.

AND THAT ALSO GOES TOWARDS THAT NATIONAL PARK  EXPERIENCE, THAT IF YOU'RE COMING FROM OUT OF STATE OR  EVEN INTERNATIONALLY, THAT YOU CAN FIND THESE  OPPORTUNITIES TO HAVE EQUITABLE ACCESS TO TAKE  ADVANTAGE OF THEM.

IN TERMS OF THE 35 LIMIT,  THAT'S A LEGACY FROM THE PRIOR FEDERAL AGENCY  MANAGING THE PRESERVE.

IN OUR GENERAL MANAGEMENT  PLAN, ONE OTHER ASPECT WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING ON IS  OVERALL CARING CAPACITY.

AGAIN, GROUNDED IN THAT  ZONING MANAGEMENT.

THAT 35 MAY CHANGE.

IT MAY GO UP, IT MAY STAY THE SAME.

WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR YET IN OUR GENERAL  MANAGEMENT PLANNING PROCESS YET.

BUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS WILL  BE BASED ON, ONE, SAFETY OF VISITORS.

RIGHT NOW, THAT BACK COUNTRY ROAD IS A ONE LANE DIRT  ROAD, SO IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CARRYING CAPACITY AS  IT STANDS.

BUT ALSO, WHAT ARE THE  VALUES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAINTAIN.

WHAT ARE THOSE FUTURE DESIRED CONDITIONS THAT WE  WANT TO MAINTAIN IN THE BACK COUNTRY, AND NOT MAKING THIS  A PAVED ROAD WHERE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF OUR VISITORS  CAN DRIVE BACK THERE, THAT WOULD CHANGE THE FEELING AND  EXPERIENCE OF OUR BACK COUNTRY SIGNIFICANTLY.

AND FROM WHAT I'VE GATHERED FROM OUR PUBLIC SCOPING AND  CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, AS WELL AS TRIBAL ENGAGEMENT, I GET THE  DISTINCT IMPRESSION THAT PEOPLE WANT TO PRESERVE  THOSE VALUES IN THE BACK COUNTRY.

AND SO IT'LL BE A FUNCTION OF FINDING THAT RIGHT  BALANCE OF HOW MANY VISITORS CAN WE SUSTAIN IN THE BACK  COUNTRY WHILE MAINTAINING THOSE VALUES.

>> Laura: SEEMS LIKE THAT BALANCE CAN BE REALLY  TRICKY, THOUGH, BECAUSE I CAN --   I'M CURIOUS IF PEOPLE CAN'T, ESPECIALLY NEW  MEXICANS, CAN'T EXPERIENCE THOSE LANDS FIRSTHAND, IF  THEY DON'T GET THE BACK COUNTRY PERMIT IN TIME, OR  THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY GET THERE,  POTENTIALLY IT MAKES PEOPLE LESS INTERESTED IN  PROTECTING IT FOR THE LONG-TERM.

SO I'M CURIOUS HOW THE PARK SERVICE CAN BALANCE THAT.

BECAUSE IT REALLY DOES SEEM LIKE PEOPLE WANT TO GET IN  THERE, BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR PUBLIC LANDS.

SO HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT?

>> Silva: WELL, THERE'S TWO  THINGS.

ONE, IN THIS PROCESS, WE'RE  TRYING TO EXPAND HOW FAR VISITORS CAN GO IN THEIR  VEHICLES WITHOUT ANY SORT OF A PERMIT OR PASS IN THE  FIRST PLACE.

AND FOR THE LONGEST TIME,  WHEN IT WAS A PRIVATE RANCH, THAT ACCESS WAS LIMITED TO  NEW MEXICO STATE ROUTE 4 ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE VALLES  GRANDE.

WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE  OUR PRIMARY FRONT COUNTRY VISITOR ENGAGEMENT ZONE IS  ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE VALLES GRANDE, WHERE THAT  CAN SERVE AS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT OF DEPARTURE  FOR VARIOUS RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES THROUGHOUT THE  REST OF THE PARK UNIT.

AND WE HAVE A LOT OF OTHER  CULTURAL AND NATURAL VALUES THAT WE CAN SHOWCASE, LIKE  AN OLD GROWTH FOREST, A HISTORY GROVE IN THAT AREA,  A MID 20th CENTURY RANCH AREA WITH A NUMBER OF  HISTORIC CABINS IN THAT LOCATION.

AND FROM THERE, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF TRAILHEADS WHERE  YOU CAN GO BEYOND THAT.

THE TWO POINTS THAT I THINK  ARE REALLY IMPORTANT, I THINK WE GET CAUGHT UP ON,  WE NEED A VEHICLE, WE NEED A CAR TO EXPERIENCE OUR PUBLIC  LANDS, AND I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THAT.

THAT BACK COUNTRY PASS IS ONLY FOR VEHICLES.

IF YOU ARE ON A MOUNTAIN BIKE, IF YOU'RE ON FOOT, IF  YOU'RE ON HORSEBACK, YOU DON'T NEED ANY VEHICLE PASS,  YOU DON'T NEED ANY SORT OF BACK COUNTRY PASS TO GO  BEYOND THAT LOCATION.

SO IT'S HOW DO WE ENGAGE  WITH OUR PUBLIC LANDS MAYBE IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAT IT'S  NOT SO CAR CENTRIC.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS HOW WE  TRY TO PRESERVE THOSE VALUES AND EXPERIENCES THAT PEOPLE  CAN HAVE IN DIFFERENT FORMS.

BUT FROM OUR GENERAL  MANAGEMENT PLANNING, WE ARE SEEKING TO EXPAND QUITE  CONSIDERABLY HOW FAR PEOPLE CAN DRIVE INTO THE PARK  UNIT, AND THEN HAVE TRAILHEADS AND PARKING AREAS  IN THOSE AREAS WHERE THEY CAN SERVE AS POINTS OF  DEPARTURE TO OTHER AREAS WITHIN THE PARK WHERE PEOPLE  CAN GO HIKING, MOUNTAIN BIKING, HORSEBACK RIDING.

RIGHT NOW, THE 35 VEHICLE LIMIT, AS WE'VE IDENTIFIED  IT, IT'S NOT CREATING ANY SORT OF LIMITATION FOR  PEOPLE WANTING TO GO INTO THE BACK COUNTRY.

IF YOU GO ON REC.GOV RIGHT NOW, ALL OF OUR DATES ARE  STILL AVAILABLE THAT HAVE BEEN OPENED UP SO FAR.

SO I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE EXCEEDED OUR CAPACITY FOR  VISITATION, PARTICULARLY AS MOST VISITORS ARE COMING FOR  ONE TO TWO HOURS AND WE HAVE AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES AND  EXPERIENCES THAT WE CAN PROVIDE IN OUR FRONT COUNTRY  WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO INTO THE BACK.

OVER TIME, AGAIN, WITH THE GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLANNING,  WE DO HAVE A DESIRE TO EXPAND OVERNIGHT CAMPING AND  BACKPACKING OPPORTUNITIES.

THAT WILL CREATE AN  ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITY TO EXPERIENCE THE BACK COUNTRY  AND BE OUT THERE FOR MULTIPLE DAYS.

AGAIN, A DIFFERENT WAY OF EXPERIENCING IT THAT DOESN'T  REQUIRE A VEHICLE.

>> Laura: THANK YOU.

I CANNOT WAIT TO GET OUT THERE WITH A BACKPACK SOME  DAY SOON.

>> Silva: EXCELLENT.

>> Laura: THANK YOU.

>> Silva: MY PLEASURE.