THE BALLOT PROPOSALS IN THE UPCOMING ELECTION... AND THE LEGACY OF COLIN POWELL...NEXT ON IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME IN FOR THIS WEEK'S SHOW ARE: BOB SPITZER, FROM SUNY CORTLAND KRISTI ANDERSEN, FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE AND TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE THE REPUBLICANS IN THE U.SS SENATE BLOCKED PASSAGE OF A VOTING RIGHTS BILL THE PRESIDENT AND DEMOCRATS WANTED.

BUT HERE IN NEW YORK WE HAVE AN OPTION TO CHANGE SOME VOTING RULES AS WE GO TO THE POLLS THIS FALL.

EARLY VOTING BEGINS SATURDAY.

THREE OF FIVE BALLOT PROPOSITIONS RELATE TO VOTING.

TARA, WHAT IS PROPOSAL #3 ON REGISTRATION ALL ABOUT?

>> WELL, IT WOULD ELIMINATE THE 10-DAY REQUIREMENT THAT EXISTS BETWEEN THE TIME YOU REGISTER TO VOTE AND THE TIME YOU ACTUALLY CAN VOTE IN THE ELECTION.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR THIS, ESPECIALLY FROM PRO-DEMOCRACY CITIZENS ACTIONS GROUP.

BASICALLY IT WOULD ELIMINATE WHAT IS SEEN AS AN UNNECESSARY BARRIER TO VOTING.

IT WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO VOTE WHO MIGHT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT NOT HAVE PAID ATTENTION TO THE ELECTIONS.

THEY MIGHT SEE SOMETHING, HEAR SOMETHING, READ SOMETHING AND DECIDE I REALLY WANT TO GO VOTE ABOUT THAT.

AND THERE ARE ALREADY 20 STATES THAT ALLOW THIS-- OR THAT HAVE ELIMINATED THE 10-DAY WAITING PERIOD.

THERE ARE SOME CONS TO THIS, HOWEVER.

SOME PEOPLE ARGUE WOULD IT OPEN THE DOOR TO VOTER FRUD FRAUD.

THERE IS NO REAL PROOF THAT THE 10-DAY WAITING HEARD HINDERS PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO VOTE ANYWAY.

THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT THE NUMBER OF BALLOTS THAT WOULD BE NEEDED AT A POLLING PLACE AND THERE IS ALWAYS THE POTENTIAL FOR PEOPLE TO GO AND VOTE IN MULTIPLE DISTRICTS OR MULTIPLE AREAS.

BUT MOST PEOPLE THINK THIS IS A POSITIVE GOOD.

>> GOOD.

PROPOSITION 4, KRISTI.

NO EXCUSE ABSENTEE VOTING.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> IT MEANS THAT WE WILL DO AWAY WITH THE VERY ONEROUS PROCESS RIGHT NOW-- IF YOU WANT TO VOTE ABSENTEE, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THAT IS IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE OUT OF YOUR COUNTY ON ELECTION DAY OR IF YOU HAVE SOME FAIRLY PERMANENT DISABILITY OR ILLNESS.

AND YOU HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE ABSENTEE BALLOT OCTOBER 18 WAS THE DEADLINE.

YOU SEND THAT IN.

THEY SEND YOU A ABSENTEE BALLOT.

YOU SEND THAT ABSENTEE BALLOT BACK IN AND IT DISCOURAGES PEOPLE FROM DOING THAT OBVIOUSLY AND PEOPLE END UP NOT VOTING.

THIS WILL MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE ABSENTEE.

AND NEW YORK, BY THE WAY, LAGS IN THIS REGARD SO I THINK 34 STATES PLUS WASHINGTON D.C. HAVE NO EXCUSE VOTING, WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE OR SAY HERE IS WHY I'M GOING TO BE OUT.

YOU CAN JUST SAY OR BE AN ABSENTEE VOTER.

>> ARE THERE ANY DOWNSIDES TO IT THAT YOU CAN SEE?

>> I THINK THE REPUBLICAN RESPONSE TO ALL THIS IS THAT IT ALLOWS MORE FRAUD AND THAT'S OTHER PEOPLE COULD HELP YOU VOTE OR THUNKS LIKE THIS.

BUT IT HAS WORKED FINE IN THESE OTHER STATES AND HAS INCREASED TURPT.

>> THE MORE CONFUSING BALLOT PROPOSAL IS NUMBER 1 REDISTRICTING MEANING HOW DO WE DRAW THE LINES FOR THE CONGRESSIONAL AND THE STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS HERE IN THE STATE?

BOB, UNPACK THIS FOR US, WILL YOU?

>> SEVERAL MOVING PARTS TO PROPOSITION 1.

THERE ARE SIX PARTS BUT LET ME HIT ON THE KEY ONES.

FIRST IT CHANGES THE LEGISLATIVE THRESHOLD FOR OVERRIDING THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS FROM TWO-THIRDS TO A SIMPLE MAJORITY WHEN ONE PARTY CONTROLS BOTH HOUSES.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE STATE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T LEAK THE RECOMMENDATION FOR REDISTRICTING FROM THE COMMISSION THEY NEED A TWO-THIRDS VOTE TO OVERRIDE IT BUT THIS WOULD CHANGE IT TO A SIMPLE MAJORITY WHICH WOULD GIVE THE STATE LEGISLATURE MORE ABILITY TO OVERRIDE THE PREAPPORTIONMENT RECOMMENDATIONS AND THAT IS PRETTY CONTROVERSIAL, I THINK.

IN ADDITION, IT DOES SOMETHING ELSE THAT I THINK FEW PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT.

THE STATE SENATE HAS FOR MANY DECADES BEEN 60 SEATS.

BUT IN 1982, IT WAS INCREASED TO 61.

THE FOLLOWING DECADE TO 62 AND THEN AGAIN TO 63 AND THE REASON WHY IS BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS CONTROLLED THE STATE SENATE AND IT WAS THEIR WAY TO TRY AND KEEP CONTROL BY ADDING IN DISTRICTS THAT WOULD BE REPUBLICAN FRIENDLY.

AND THAT HELPED THEM KEEP CONTROL.

SO THIS PROVISION OF PROPOSITION 1 WOULD CAP THE SIZE OF THE STATE SENATE AT 63.

AND THAT, I THINK, IS A SENSIBLE IDEA.

ANOTHER PROVISION IS THAT IT REQUIRES CENSUS COUNTS TO INCLUDE NON-CITIZEN RESIDENTS.

NOW THE 14th AMENDMENT AND FEDERAL STANDARDS ALREADY SAY THAT WHEN YOU DO A CENSUS, YOU COUNT ALL PERSONS, NOT JUST ALL CITIZENS.

AND THAT'S WELL ESTABLISHED.

BUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS BALKING AT THE IDEA OF DOING THAT AND SO THIS IS BEING PUT IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS DONE, AT LEAST IN NEW YORK STATE, SHOULD IT BE A QUESTION IN THE FUTURE.

AND FINALLY, IT REMOVES THE PROVISION THAT BARS THE DIVIDING OF TOWNS BUT NOT CITIES IN DRAWING DISTRICT LINES.

>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> YOU CAN SPLIT UP A CITY EVEN IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO DO IT BUT YOU CANNOT SPLIT UP A TOWN.

AND THIS WILL ELIMINATE THAT INEQUITY.

SO THESE ARE ALL POLITICALLY FRAUGHT PROVISIONS AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MIND IN TERMS OF HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THESE THINGS AND WHETHER-- BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL LUCHED TOGETHER, WHETHER ON BALANCE THEY THINK THESE THINGS SHOULD BE DONE OR NOTES.

>> KRISTI WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT?

>> THAT THIS WOULD COUNT INCARCERATED PEOPLE AS BEING IN THE DISTRICT IN WHICH THEY LAST LIVED RATHER THAN BEING IN THE DISTRICT THAT THEY'RE IN JAIL OR PRISON.

AND THIS IS A WAY TO PULL BACK SOME REPUBLICAN ADVANTAGE BECAUSE MOST OF THE PRISONS ARE IN RURAL PLACES, MORE REPUBLICAN PLACES SO IT'S NOT THAT THESE PEOPLE CAN VOTE.

IT'S THAT THEY ARE COUNTED FOR REDISTRICTING IN WHEREVER, UPSTATE NEW YORK.

SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.

PEOPLE HAVE ALSO ARGUED THAT IT GIVES SOME INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE, FOR THE FOLKS TO PAY ATTENTION WHO ARE IN PRISON, TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR HOME AND HELPS A LITTLE BIT IN THAT REGARD IN REHABILITATION AND REENTRY INTO NON-PRISON LIFE.

>> TARA, ANY SENSE WHETHER THIS IS GOING TO PASS?

DO YOU FAVOR IT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT IT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERN ME AND BOB I DON'T THINK YOU MENTIONED THIS, WAS THAT RIGHT NOW THE COMMISSION HAS A DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN AS CO-CHAIRS.

THAT WOULD BE ELIMINATED IN THIS PROPOSAL.

AND SO IT REALLY GIVES A BENEFIT TO WHICH EVER PARTY IS IN THE MAJORITY.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I REALLY DISLIKE ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL.

BUT AS KRISTI MENTIONED, THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD SECTIONS IN IT.

AND SO I SORT OF HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT SUPPORTING IT.

>> ANIRBAN, THERE IS ONE MORE PROPOSITION ON THE HEALTHCARE-- I MEAN.

>> ENVIRONMENT.

>> THE ENVIRONMENT, YES.

SO THAT PROPOSAL IS VERY SIMPLE ACTUALLY.

IT SAYS THAT THE PROPOSITION IS THAT ARTICLE 1 WOULD ADD ONE SECTION THAT SAYS EACH PERSON SHALL HAVE RIGHTS TO CLEAN AIR AND WATER AND HEALTHFUL VICE MAYOR.

THIS IS AT FACE A VERY GOOD THING.

A CNN POLL RECENTLY SHOWED 80% OF REGISTERED VOTERS SUPPORT THIS.

AND NEW YORK WOULD BE JOINING OTHER STATES LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, MONTANA, MASSACHUSETTS, PENNSYLVANIA IN FACT FROM 1971 HAD THESE KINDS OF PROVISIONS.

NOW THE OPPOSITION TO THIS HAS BEEN THAT NEW YORK STATE IS ALREADY A LAWSUIT CAPITAL OF THE UNITED STATES.

THE AVERAGE FUN FACT PER CAPITA LAWSUIT COST PER HOUSEHOLD IS $6,000.

CRITICS ARE SAYING THIS WOULD INCREASE AND OPEN THE GOVERNMENT UP TO LAWSUITS THAT ARE UNNECESSARY TO INCREASE THE COSTS SO ON AND SO FORTH AND SO, BUT I THINK THAT THIS WILL PASS.

>> THE FIFTH PROPOSAL UPDATES RULES FOR TAKING CASES TO NEW YORK CITY CIVIL COURTS.

THESE PROPOSITIONS ARE ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE BALLOT OWE BE SURE TO FLIP IT OPEN.

I HAVE PLANS TO TRAVEL BY AIR AT THANKSGIVING AND MAYBE SOME OF YOU DO AS WELL AND OF COURSE I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IT, WITH COVID.

SINCE THE AIRLINES TRANSPORT THE MILITARY AND OTHER GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES --- THEY ARE FEDERAL CONTRACTORS.

THUS THE AIRLINES COME UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S MANDATE THAT EMPLOYEES BE VACCINATED.

MANY, MANY AIRLINE EMPLOYEES HAVE, BUT THERE ARE ALSO MANY THAT HAVE NOT.

ONE COMPANY PROPOSES TO CHARGE AN EXTRA $200 A MONTH TO EMPLOYEES FOR HEALTHCARE.

EMPLOYEES SMALL VOCAL MINORITY ARE AGAINST GETTING VACCINES.

THERE IS TALK OF EMPLOYEE SLOWDOWNS.

A JUDGE TOLD UNITED IT COULDN'T PUT EMPLOYEES WAITING FOR THE EXEMPTION ON PAID LEAVE.

I'M WONDERING HERE, ANIRBAN, DO WE HAVE SOMETHING BREWING HERE THAT'S GOING TO BE NEARLY DISASTROUS AT THE HOLIDAYS?

>> IT'S A COMPLICATED RULING.

A COUPLE THINGS ARE GOING ON.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID ANY PRIVATE EMPLOYER WITH MORE THAN 100 EMPLOYEES HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

OF COURSE THERE ARE RELIGIOUS AND MEDICAL EXEMPTION AND OPTIONS FOR REGULAR WEEKLY TESTING.

THAT'S ONE PART.

THE OTHER PART IS A STRICTER ONE WHICH IS THAT IF YOU ARE A FEDERAL CONTRACTOR AS YOU ARE MENTIONING, THEN YOU HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

OF COURSE THERE ARE RELIGIOUS AND MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS BUT THERE IS NO OPTION FOR WEEKLY TESTING SO THAT IS THE STICKING POINT IN CASE OF THE AIRLINES.

NOW DELTA HAD BEEN DOING THIS IF YOU WANT DAILY TESTING, IT ADDS $200 TO YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE AND MANAGED TO GET 95%.

UNITED GOT ABOUT 95%.

BUT I THINK THE MAIN PROBLEM WOULD BE NEGOTIATING WITH THE UNIONS BECAUSE THAT WOULD GO TOWARDS WHETHER THE AIRLINES HAVE THE ABILITY TO ENFORCE THIS LAW BUT IT'S COMING DOWN FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO I THINK THERE IS VERY LITTLE THAT THE AIRLINES CAN DO, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE FEDERAL CONTRACTORS, THEY HAVE TO ABIDE BY THAT RULE.

AND YOU KNOW ON THE LARGER SCALE, VACCINE MANDATES ARE WORKING RIGHT?

I JUST SAW HERE IN NEWSPAPER, THE MOHAWK VALLEY HEALTH SYSTEM WAS 70% IN SUMMER AND NOW THEY'RE 95.6%.

SO AS THE HOLIDAYS ARE COMING, AS MORE TRAVELERS DEMAND THEY NEED A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR TRAVELING, I THINK AIRLINES WOULD FALL IN LINE AND SEVERAL C.E.O.s HAVE INDICATED THAT.

>> BOB, I WONDER IF MASKS ARE ENOUGH BECAUSE THERE IS ONE HARVARD STUDY THAT SHOWED IT WAS SAFER TO BE ON AN AIRPLANE THAN GO TO YOUR LOCAL GROCERY STORE.

>> AIRPLANES ARE SAFE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.

ONE BECAUSE OF THE FILTRATION SYSTEM THAT THEY USE.

SECONDLY BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY STRICT ABOUT MASK POLICIES.

ANYBODY HAS BEEN IN ON AN AIRPLANE IN RECENT MONTHS KNOWS YOU HAVE TO WEAR A MASK AND KEEP IT ON.

THE EMPLOYEES ALSO ARE MASKED.

AND THE VACCINATION RATE IS PRETTY HIGH.

>> 71% VERSUS 57% OF, YOU KNOW,-- >> THOSE WHO... >> VERSE THE NATION AS A WHOLE.

>> SO YOU HAVE GREATER SAFETY WHICH IS A GOOD THING BUT IT'S ONLY A PART OF LARGER SOCIETY, AND BY THE SAME TOKEN, I DO THINK IT PROVIDES A MODEL IN ANY WAYS FOR HOW OTHER ELEMENTS AND SECTORS CAN DEAL WITH THIS AND WE DO KNOW AS ANIRBAN WAS SAYING FROM THE STATISTICS, THAT WHEN THESE MANDATES ARE IMPOSED, YOU DO GET A DRAMATIC UPSURGE IN VACCINATIONS WHEN THE DEADLINE LOOMS.

PEOPLE NEED TO GET VACCINATED.

THEY JUST DO.

>> I JUST WOULD ADD THOUGH THAT OBVIOUSLY IT BECOMES VERY POLITICAL AND PARTICULARLY THE AIRLINES WHOSE HEADQUARTERS ARE IN TEXAS, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE SOUTHWEST, ARE HAVING PROTESTS AT THEIR GATES SO TO SPEAK.

SO YOU HAVE THE COMPLICATIONS OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THEN THE STATES AND THE PROTESTORS IN VARIOUS PLACES AND THE UNIONS WANTING WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE TRYING TO PROTECT THE INDEPENDENCE OF THEIR MEMBERS.

AND IT'S COMPLICATED.

I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE AN AIRLINE PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW.

>> I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE AIRLINES WOULD HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER ON THIS, OR THE UNIONS WOULD HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER.

>> BECAUSE TEXAS AND SOUTHWEST-- AMERICAN AND SOUTHWEST ARE HEADQUARTERED IN TEXAS AND THE GOVERNOR, YOU KNOW, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, IS TAKING AN ACTIVE POLICY.

GIVEN THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO STOP COVID, IT'S KIND OF ADDING TO THAT KIND OF DRAMA.

BUT I DO THINK THAT BOB, THE FEDERAL LAW WOULD OVERTAKE THE STATE LAW, RIGHT?

>> THAT WOULD BE MY ASSUMPTION, YEAH ESPECIALLY FOR COMPANIES THAT CONTRACT WITH FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR LEGAL OR CONTRACTUAL REGULATIONS.

YOU WOULD THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD PREVAIL BUT THEY CAN DRAG THEIR FEET, GO TO COURT, ET CETERA.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS STATE IS ON PAPER.

THERE IS A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION BUT ONE OF THE REALITIES IS THAT MOST EMPLOYERS ARE NOT FINDING MANY RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS AND I DO THINK THAT HAS EXACERBATED THE RESISTANCE TO THE VACCINE BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MANY EMPLOYERS THAT BASICALLY ARE SAYING WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'VE CHECKED EVERY POSSIBLE RELIGION AND MOST OF THEM ARE SAYING EITHER THEY'RE TAKING NO STANCE OR THEY'RE SAYING YES, IT'S A HUMAN GOOD, GO AGED GO AHEAD, GET VACCINATED.

THAT'S ENCOURAGING IT.

ESPECIALLY IN PLACES LIKE TEXAS WHICH IN A SENSE IS PART OF THE BIBLE BELT, YOU ARE GOING TO GET MORE RESISTANCE.

>> ARE YOU SAYING EMPLOYEES ARE SAYING A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION BUT THIS THEY REALLY DON'T BELIEVE IT THEMSELVES?

>> I THINK THE EMPLOYERS ARE FINDING THAT THEY DON'T THINK THE EMPLOYEES REALLY HAVE A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION BECAUSE MOST EMPLOYEES ARE PART OF THE, GOING TO USE TRADITIONAL FOR LACK OF A BETTER STATEMENT.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE TENETS OF MOST TRADITIONAL RELIGIONS, THERE IS NOTHING THERE THAT WOULD PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING VACCINATED.

>> AND YET IT'S HARD FOR SOMEBODY AT AN AIRLINE TO KNOW THE THEOLOGY OF ALL THESE GROUPS AND DO WE WANT THEM DECIDING YES, YOUR FAITH IS LEGITIMATE, NO, YOURS IS NOT.

>> NO, WE DON'T.

AND CERTAINLY AS YOU POINTED OUT WITH THE HOLIDAYS COMING UP, YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE GETTING TO WORK THAT MORNING SAYING I HAVEN'T BEEN GIVEN MY RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION SO I CAN'T WORK TODAY.

>> AND THEN THERE BE A STOPPAGE.

>> EXACTLY.

>> AND I WON'T GET TO CHARLOTTE ON THANKS GIVING.

>> IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER PEOPLE-- I MEAN MOST PEOPLE-- MANY PEOPLE LIKE THOSE IN SYRACUSE DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF CHOICE ABOUT WHO OR WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO FLY BUT IF YOU ARE FLYING OUT OF BIG CITIES, YOU COULD HEADACHE CHOICES BASED ON WHAT THEIR VACCINE POLICY WAS, HOW VACCINATED THEIR STAFF WAS, HOW RIGOROUS THEY WERE IN ENFORCING MARVETION, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

>> ANIRBAN SAID HE REALLY THINKS THE MANDATES WORK.

DO YOU THINK THEY DO?

>> THEY ABSOLUTELY WORK.

THE HEALTHCARE ONES HAVE BEEN THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN-- HAVE THE MOST DATA BECAUSE IT WAS PRETTY MUCH, YOU HAD TO DO IT OR THEY WERE VERY DRACONIAN IN A SENSE.

AND YES, EVERYTHING YOU SEE IS THAT IT PUSHED UP THE NUMBER OF VACCINATIONS AND THAT THERE WERE FEWER RESIGNATIONS OR JOB QUITTING THAN HAD BEEN FEARED.

>> FOR OUR THIRD TOPIC, LET'S LOOK AT THE LEGACY OF COLIN POWELL A TRAILBLAZER AND ROLE MODEL.

A HUMBLE NEW YORK CITY KID WHO ROSE TO BECOME CHAIR OF THE JOINT CHIEFS AND SECRETARY OF STATE.

AND YET HE SAW HIS IMAGE TARNISHED A BIT BECAUSE OF HIS STRONG ADVOCACY BEFORE THE UN FOR THE IRAQ WAR.

HOW SHOULD WE REMEMBER HIM?

BOB?

>> WELL, SO MUCH HAS BEEN WRITTEN AND SAID ABOUT COLIN POWELL ALREADY.

TO ME HE IS VERY MUCH IN THE TRADITION OF PEOPLE LIKE GEORGE MARSHAL OR DWIGHT EISENHOWER IN THE 20th CENTURY, CAREER MILITARY PEOPLE WHO MADE THE TRANSITION TO CIVILIAN POSITIONS OF GREAT IMPORTANCE.

AND HE JUST IS A STERLING CHARACTER WIDELY ADMIRED BUT I WILL SAY THAT, OF COURSE HIS GREAT REGRET BY HIS OWN ADMISSION WAS DURING HIS SERVICE AS SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE SECOND GEORGE BUSH AND THERE IS A LARGER STORY BEHIND HIS REGRET HE WAS THE FRONT PERSON, OF COURSE, WHO WENT TO THE UNITED NATIONS IN THE FALL OF 2002 TO JUSTIFY THE INVASION OF IRAQ AND HE KNEW THAT THE JUSTIFICATIONS WERE BOGUS.

HE PUSHED THE ADMINISTRATION TO PRODUCE THE BEST EVIDENCE THEY COULD PRODUCE.

THAT EVIDENCE, THAT EVIDENCE HE PRESENTED LIKE THE ALUMINUM TUBE STORY THAT THE YELLOW CAKE STORY PROVED TO BE UTTERLY FALSE IN THE END ANYWAY.

AND THE CHIEF CULPRIT BEHIND THAT WAS DICK CHENEY, THE VICE PRESIDENT BECAUSE DICK CHENEY WAS ORCHESTRATING FOREIGN POLICY BECAUSE GEORGE BUSH WHEN HE BECAME PRESIDENT CEDED POWER TO CHAIN CHAIN IN THE FIRST TERM.

THE SECOND TERM THEY HAD A FALLING OUT AND THE RELATIONSHIP CHANGED AND IN FACT, POWELL WAS REALLY NOT IN CHARGE OF FOREIGN POLICY.

THE JOB OF SECRETARY OF STATE IS TO BE HEAD OF FOREIGN POLICY OF A PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION SECOND ONLY TO THE PRESIDENT.

BUT POWELL WAS NOT IN CHARGE.

IN FACT THERE IS A FAMOUS STORY IN, I THINK 2002, WHEN SOME MAJOR FOREIGN POLICY ANNOUNCEMENT, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS, CAME OUT OF THE ADMINISTRATION AND COLIN POWELL AND CONDOLEEZA RICE LEARNED ABOUT IT BY WATCHING IT ON CNN.

THEY WERE NOT EVEN IN THE LOOP AND SHE WAS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR AT THE TIME.

WHY?

BECAUSE PAUL WOLF RITZ AND RICHARD ARM TAX PACKAGE AND DICK CHENEY WERE ESSENTIALLY RUNNING FOREIGN POLICY AND IT WAS CHENEY THAT WAS HOT FOR WAR ALONG WITH THE WAR HAWKS LIKE WOLFOWITZ AND PLAYED THE SUCKER FOR THE ADMINISTRATION.

HE WAS THE FRONT MAN FOR IT AND IT WAS HIS JOB TO ARTICULATE FOREIGN POLICY.

BUT IT WAS THE GREAT HUMILIATION AND HE KNEW HE WAS PLAYED FOR A SUCKER AND HE WAS MORE DIPLOMATIC BUT THAT WAS PART OF HIS CAREER.

>> ANIRBAN, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

>> HE MADE THIS POWER DOCTRINE VERY FAMOUS, RIGHT?

THAT THE UNITED STATES SHOULD ONLY ENGAGE FOR STRATEGIC INTERESTS, SHOULD HAVE A TEARED TIERED PLAN OF WITHDRAWAL DRAWING AND IRONICALLY IN THE SECOND IRAQ WAR, NONE OF THAT WAS PRESENT.

HE WAS, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, HE WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF THE WAR BUT WAS ISOLATED BY THE OTHER WAR MONGERS LIKE DICK CHENEY AND HIS LIKES.

AND LATER ON WITH THE INTERVIEW WITH BARBARA WALTERS IN AL-JAZEERA, HE SAID THE IRAQ WAR WOULD BE A BLOT ON THE RECORD.

HE IS A VERY VENERABLE TACTOR.

CHARACTER.

HE SAID THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY WAS TRANSFORMATIVE.

HE WENT AGAINST THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY CALLING HIM A RACIST AS HE SHOULD HAVE.

AT THE SAME TIME THIS IS NOT THE FIRST MISTAKE HE HAS DONE.

IF I MIGHT REMIND PEOPLE THAT DURING THE 1968 MASSACRE WHERE THE UNITED STATES ARMY MASSACRED 500 UNARMED VIETNAMESE CIVILIANS, HE WAS IN CHARGE OF THAT INVESTIGATION AND DID NOT COME OUT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY.

LATER ON HE HAD REGRETS ABOUT THAT.

>> WE JUST HAVE 30 SECONDS.

TARA, WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF POWELL?

>> I'LL PICK UP WHERE ANIRBAN LEFT OFF.

BASICALLY, HE BROUGHT US FULL CIRCLE WITH VIETNAM IN THAT HIS STORY IS A STORY OF THE MILITARY AND WHAT THE MILITARY COULD DO FOR YOU IN YOUR LIFE AND THAT WAS A BIG PART OF AMERICA IN THE LATE 1960s.

THEN YOU HAD THE NECESSITY GAITION OF THE NEGATION THANKS TO VIETNAM AND THE MASSACRE AND POWELL IN RECOGNIZING HIS PART, BEING HONEST ABOUT WHAT HE SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE, IN A SENSE, CLOSED THAT VIETNAM CHAPTER FOR US.

HE BROUGHT IT TO AN END.

>> IT'S TIME TO OPEN UP THE GRADEBOOK.

BOB SPITZER, WHO GETS YOUR F. >> LASTED WEEK A REPORTER FOR THE ST. LOUIS POST DISPATCH DISCOVERED THAT THE STATE OF MISSOURI WEBSITE THAT LISTS THE NAMES OF PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS MISTAKENLY LISTED THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS.

THE REPORTER TOLD THE STATE AND TOLD THE TEACHERS UNION, WAITED TWO DAYS AND THEN REPORTED THE STORY.

BUT INSTEAD OF THANKING THE REPORTER, MISSOURI GOVERNOR MIKE PARSON ACCUSED THE REPORTER OF HACKING THE STATE WEBSITE AND THREATENED THE REPORTER.

SO I'M GIVING AN F TO GOVERNOR PARSON WHO WOULD RATHER BLAME THE PRESS THAN FIX HIS OWN MISTAKE.

>> AMEN ON THAT ONE.

KRISTI, YOUR F. >> AN F MAYBE TOO EASY TO DONALD TRUMP FOR THE STATEMENT HE ISSUED IN RESPONSE TO COLIN POWELL'S DEATH.

WONDERFUL TO SEE COLIN POWELL WHO MADE BIG MISTAKES ON IRAQ AND SO CALLED WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION BE TREATED IN DEATH SO BEAUTIFULLY BY THE FAKE NEWS MEDIA.

I HOPE THAT HAPPENS TO ME SOME DAY.

HE MADE PLENTY OF MISTAKES.

BUT ANYWAY MAY HE REST IN PEACE.

>> AND ANIRBAN, YOUR F. >> MY EASY F GOES TO THE AUTHORITIES OF THE MIAMI-BASED PRIVATE SCHOOL SENT NAR FOR STUDENTS WHO VET VACCINATED TO STAY HOME FOR A MONTH WHO GET EACH DOSE AND ANNOUNCED TEACHERS AND STAFF WHO CHOOSE TO GET VACCINATED FOR COVID COULD NOT INTERACT WITH STUDENTS AND WOULD RUN THE RISK OF LOSING THEIR JOB.

NICE SCHOOL BUILDING, TERRIBLE SCHOOLING.

>> FOR SURE.

>> TARA.

>> MY F GOES TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT FOR ITS RECENT DECISIONS IN TWO CASES CHALLENGING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY AS A DEFENSE AGAINST POLICE BRUTALITY.

IN BOTH CASES, THE POLICE BEHAVIOR WAS FOUND NOT TO VIOLATE "AN ESTABLISHED RIGHT" BY RULING SO STRICTLY AND UPHOLDING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY WHERE THERE IS NO ESTABLISHED RIGHT, THE SUPREME COURT PROTECTS ACTS OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND ALL BUT NULLIFIES CITIZENS FOURTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

>> SOMETHING GOOD, BOB, WHO GETS AN A.

>> 19 YEARS AGO ITSELF S.I.

NEWHOUSE SCHOOL DEAN, DAVID RUBEN HAD THE BRIGHT IDEA OF CREATING A TV SHOW OF A BUNCH OF ACADEMICS SITTING AROUND AND TALKING ABOUT THE NEWS OF THE WEEK AND GIVING AS AND FS THAT BECAME THIS PROGRAM, "IVORY TOWER."

DAVID RUBEN RETIRED A FEW YEARS AGO AND I WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE Mr. RUBEN AND THIS IDEA AND THE IDEA OF THIS SHOW.

AND THAT'S AN A TO ME.

>> OKAY.

KRISTI.

>> GIVEN THAT 42 MILLION AMERICANS LACK INTERNET CONNECTION AND MILLIONS OF US HAVE NO CHOICE OF PROVIDER.

COLORADO COMPANY IS BUILDING AN OPEN ACCESS FIBER NETWORK ACROSS THOUSANDS OF UNDERSERVED RURAL COMMUNITIES AND THEN MULTIPLE SMALL INDEPENDENT START-UPS CAN SELL SERVICES ON THIS OPEN NETWORK WITHOUT HAVING TO BUILD THEIR OWN INFRASTRUCTURE.

I HOPE THIS WORKS.

>> ANIRBAN QUICKLY.

>> HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH FOR THEIR RECENT REPORT ON THE BORDER.

THE REPORT TITLED THEY TREAT YOU LIKE YOU ARE WORTHLESS INTERNAL REPORTS OF ABUSES BY U.S. BORDER OFFICIALS IS AN EYE OPENING TO SAY THE LEAST AND EVIDENCE POINTS TO AN URGENT NEED FOR JUSTICE AND IMMIGRATION REFORM.

>> TARA.

>> AN A TO A RESTAURANT, EXPLORE LAKE SIDE IN HOT SPRINGS ARKANSAS STRUGGLING TO RETAIN EMPLOYEES, THE RESTAURANT IS ACTUALLY PAYING ITS EMPLOYEES TO DO THEIR HOME WORK FOR AN HOUR BEFORE THEY START THEIR SHIFT.

>> AND AS WE CLOSE, I NEED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS BOB SPITZER'S LAST SHOW.

HE IS RETIRING FROM THE PANEL.

BOB, WHAT IS NEXT?

>> I'M RETIRING, AS YOU SAY, AND WE ARE-- MY WIFE AND I ARE DISCUSSING OUR FUTURE PLANS.

AND I WILL JUST SAY THAT IT HAS BEEN AN INESTIMABLO PLEASURE TO DO THIS SHOW WITH YOU AND ALL THE COLLEAGUES FOR 19 YEARS.

>> IT HAS BEEN 19 YEARS AND YOU HAVE DRIVEN UP AND DOWN I-81 AS A VOLUNTEER EVERY FRIDAY, SNOW, RAIN, WHATEVER AND WE PARTICULARLY APPRECIATE YOUR EXPERTISE IN GUNS AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF STATE GOVERNMENT.

WE WILL MISS YOU.

AND AS WE SAY GOODBYE TO BOB, WE'LL ALSO SAY GOOD NIGHT TO YOU.

AND IF YOU AGREED OR DISAGREED WITH OUR DISCUSSION, WE'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

THE ADDRESSES ARE ON THE SCREEN AND IF YOU MISS THE SHOW ANY FRIDAY, IT REPEATS SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 5:30 OR FIND THE SHOW ONLINE ANY TIME AT WCNY PNTS ORG.

GOOD NIGHT.