[adventurous music] [adventurous music continues] [adventurous music continues] [adventurous music continues] - Hello, and welcome [travelers chattering] to "Comic Culture".

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

Now, clearly, [horns blaring] we are not in the TV studio today, we're in Baltimore for the Baltimore Comic-Con.

On this half hour, we're going to take you down to the convention floor to talk to some writers, and artists, and fans, stay tuned.

With three days, Baltimore Comic-Con drew tens of thousands of fans to the Baltimore Convention Center.

It's a true comic book show, and organizers brought in top writers and artists, like the legendary Arthur Adams.

Arthur, you're at Baltimore Comic-Con.

- I am.

[attendees chattering] - You are known for some of the best covers in comics, so I'm just wondering, when you are sitting down at a drawing board, what goes into your head when you've gotta put together a good cover?

- The first thing that comes into my head is that the mortgage is due, so I need to get something done quickly.

Well, so, whenever I'm working on a cover, I'm trying to sell the book.

That is the goal of whoever's doing the covers, to try to interest someone in buying it, so, I try to make something exciting, something that has a little bit of a story in it, to tease the reader, and hopefully, produce a nice piece of art.

- And your work is also very detailed, so I'm imagining that it takes you a good deal of time to complete something like a "Godzilla" cover, or maybe an "X-Men" or "Black Lagoon" cover?

- On average, for me, covers take about a week from beginning to end, so I'll do a sketch for an editor, or I'll do several sketches for the editor, and they will pick the one they think will work for the book they're doing best, and then I will sit down and get out my pencil, and sketch it out, and then get out my inking tools and ink away, and by the end, hopefully, the editorial is happy with what they've got.

- So are you still using the traditional tools?

The pen, the ink, the brush?

- I use pencil, pencil and pens, yeah.

I use just simple things like these.

We shouldn't probably put the label on there, because, but anyway, [Terence chuckling] but basically, things that you can buy at a local art store, generally, easy to find stuff.

- Baltimore's Artist Alley blended big stars with independent creators, like Kelly Yates.

Can you tell us about Amber?

[attendees chattering] - Yeah, absolutely, so "Amber Atoms" is my creator-owned book.

It came out through Image Comics in 2009.

I got four issues of it out, and basically, the idea behind it is the female Flash Gordon, - Okay.

- So a little bit of Flash Gordon, a little bit of Luke Skywalker, a little bit of "Star Wars", so it's kind of my female version of that, and I was able to get four issues of it out, and that's kind of where I am with it.

- So you publish it as a trade paperback, you went through Kickstarter, is it tough to sort of go from being the creative mind to being the business mind?

- You know, kind of being able to flip back and forth is kind of soothing sometimes, 'cause you know, sometimes you spend so much time being creative, and illustrating, and doing that, so it's kind of nice to kind of figure out the other piece of the process, and I found it really kind of interesting to figure out how to get my property out there, because, you know, when I created through Image, they just handled everything.

It just kind of disappeared from my hands.

It wasn't until it came up in the stores that I saw it again, versus Kickstarter, I did it myself.

I printed it through a company in Korea, and I was able to kind of figure out, okay, this is the process, and so it made me much more engaged to figure out how to get it to the consumer, to the reader, so that was a pretty interesting process, so I liked it.

I liked being able to do both sides, both the creative and the salesperson bit of it.

- And I'm imagining this is a book that you worked on in 2009, it's 2023 now.

- Yeah.

- Is there a temptation to go back and look at those pages and say, you know what, I'm a better artist now, I can fix this, and I can tweak that, and I can make it a little bit sharper?

- Oh, I think, I think any creative person can go back and look in their stuff, I can do that better.

I can do that 100 times better, and I think that is where I came with this, that's why I created a new seven-page story for this, because I wanna show like, oh, I'm a better writer, I'm a better illustrator, I'm a better colorist now, so that was kind of the point of that, yeah.

- And if the folks at home wanted to find out more about you, is there a place on the web they can look it up?

- Sure, yeah, kellyyatesart.com.

That's the space, go check it out.

- Artists tend to get the most attention at conventions, but Baltimore Comic-Con also invited many writers, like Ron Marz.

Ron, you recently returned [attendees chattering] to Marvel for a "Silver Surfer" story, so when you go back to a character that you've had great success with, how does that happen?

Does Marvel call you up and say, "Hey, we want to put the band back together, "'cause you know, we want the the bump?"

- Yeah, essentially, you know, Marvel called and said, do you wanna do "Surfer" again?

And I said, "Well, is Ron Lim gonna do it?"

And they said, "Well, he said, he'll do it if you do it," and I'm like, "All right, I'll do it if he'll do it," so it was, yeah, it was an easy decision, 'cause I love working with him, and you know, it's very much a full circle kind of exercise.

Literally, the first stuff I ever wrote was "Silver Surfer", and the first story I ever wrote was drawn by Ron Lim, so I'm back where I started, - And it's interesting, because you have a relationship with Ron, and also with Darryl Banks, so when a project comes up, and you can work with somebody that you've got that great relationship with, you know, is there, I guess, there's the extra enthusiasm, but do you sort of collaborate to come up with the story to make it a little bit tighter?

- It, you know, it depends on the project, depends on the collaborator, but I like to be collaborative with the artists that I work with, and you know, a lot of it is like, what do you, you know, what do you want to draw?

What do you not want to draw?

When Ron was working on the first miniseries, you know, the editor requested we put Jack of Hearts into the story, and I'm like, "Okay, that's a weird one," but I, you know, I called Ron, and said, "They want Jack of Hearts, like, do you want to draw that?"

'cause his costume is such a pain in the ass to draw.

I felt like I needed to check with him first, and you know, he said, "Yeah, you know, okay, let's do it," 'cause Ron's the most enthusiastic guy I've ever known, so he goes, "Yeah, okay, let's do that," and, you know, then of course, when we got to the end of it, he was like, "Oh yeah, Jack of Hearts sucked," and it was just... [chuckles] [Terence chuckling] It takes a lot of time to noodle up that detail, but, you know, part of the job, a large part of the job for me, really, is to make sure that the artist is happy and engaged, and excited about what they're gonna sit down and do that day.

You know, a bunch of talking heads isn't really the most exciting thing that you can do for eight, or 10, or 12 hours a day, so my, you know, my charge is to make sure that I'm giving them something that they're excited about drawing.

- And my last question will be, we're at Baltimore Convention, is it difficult, you know, to sort of get up, hop on those planes, go to the hotels, go to the convention for three days?

I know it's part of the business, but you know, is it a tough part of the business?

- Yeah, I mean, you go home at the end of these things and you're tired.

This is, you do these things, you, you know, you talk with people that come to the table, and you wanna make sure that everybody goes away with a good experience, so, you have to be on all day, and then, you know, especially a show like this, which is kind of a family reunion, you see so many people that you've worked with, and you're friends with, and you're, you know, going out to dinner and having a few drinks in the bar, and not getting enough sleep, sleeping in a lumpy bed, you know it, yeah, it's exhausting, but it's the, you know, it's, in some ways, it's the reward.

You get to go, you know, you get to go to some cool places, see friends, experience a different town, or a different country, in a lot of cases, and then you go back into your hobbit hole, like this is, there's no real happy medium.

Like, you're sitting in a room by yourself doing the job, and then you're, you know, in a convention center with 20,000 people.

It's sort of whiplash, but like you said, it's part of the job, and it does recharge you a bit, it does.

Seeing your friends, talking with people that come up to the table, and, you know, are enthusiastic about what you did, or you know, what the work has meant to them.

That puts some wind in your sails.

- Like Ron said, conventions are fun, but exhausting.

By day three, batteries are pretty drained.

I spoke with Howard Chaykin about attending cons.

Howard, comic conventions [crowd chattering] are, I guess, interesting for us fans, but for a professional who's been in the industry for a few years, what's it like going to something like this and meeting those of us who are fans, and wannna, you know, hear stories or get autographs?

- Well, [clears throat] in a real, in a serious answer to your question, which you're probably expecting something more facetious, I regard the convention as my client, and the conventioneers are my client's customers.

Therefore, I'm here to be of service to those customers.

I believe in engagement.

I think the attendees are entitled to some attention, some call and response, and I'm, as been indicated to me over the past couple of days, I can't shut up, so I'm always good for a chat.

I always encourage people not to line up at my table, but to wrap around it rather, so it's more of a, it's not a VD clinic, it's a bar, and I, you know, I'm willing to exchange spiritedly, but I'm rarely wrong, so it creates a problem for people who think they're in my league.

- And one of the things I have noticed, 'cause I've come by, this is the third day of the convention, I just remember coming by yesterday and Friday, and you do, you've got a lineup of people here, and you are gregarious, telling stories, a lot of laughter going on, so at the end of the day, are you just completely wiped from all that interaction, or are you ready to go?

'Cause you know, you've got a big personality.

- I'm one step away from a coma, and I don't have that big a line.

I have a, I have an occasional line.

I mean, Walter has a big line, 'cause they're all whores, you know, they can get something for nothing or for close to free.

I don't do that, I'm here to...

I work for The Hero Initiative, I provide money for those guys, and I'm difficult.

I have no, I'm not nice.

I'm good.

I'm situationally kind, and I don't stand for idiots, you know?

I'm just, I mean, as I said, I...

I'm always embarrassed by people who think they're in my league of meeting me wit for wit.

I'm not funny, but I'm clever, and witty, and quick, and it has not served me well, because people prefer the anodyne.

[Terence chuckling] - And I guess my last question is going to be- - It's the last question?

- The last question.

- Oh my God.

- I don't want to keep you any longer than you need to be kept.

- Of course, I'm about to close up and slip into that coma I was talking about, but please, go on.

[Terence chuckling] - So, you know, when you have to pack everything up and head out, you know, is this the type of thing that you look forward to as the cons come?

Or is this something where it's just part of the business, and as a result, you know, being the professional that you are, you do it grudgingly?

- No, I love going to shows.

I like engagement, I'm also...

This show in particular, Baltimore, is a particularly collegial show.

I mean, I've had dinner the past two nights, three nights with long time friends, with people I've known for nearly 50 years in some, in some, it's more than 50 years, because I'm really old, and you know, I, for me, the convention, I mean, I know a lot of guys do the show, and after the show is over, they go back to their rooms and they draw.

Not me, I, once that bell ends rings at the end of the day, I am home free and out to have a, if not a good time, then a quiet and pleasant one.

I'm in town, I'm leaving tomorrow morning, so tonight, I'm gonna have dinner with colleagues, and they're all pissing and moaning that I made my reservation too late, and they can go to hell.

- I enjoy going to conventions to pick the brains of artists whose work I admire, like Tom Mandrake.

Tom, you have worked for [crowd chattering] independent publishers, you have worked for the major publishers, and you have also been an academic, teaching the next generation of comic professionals, so in your, I guess, path between getting started to getting into the classroom, what have you sort of picked up that's enabled you to maybe do things a little bit better as you get a little bit older?

- Well, working at The Kubert School has helped me keep that fresh perspective.

I think one of the things that's true, not, maybe not with everybody, but with a lot of artists is that we're, by nature, reclusive.

We want to get in the studio, stay in the studio, and hide, and that's not necessarily a healthy thing, so, getting out as an instructor one or two times a week, working with other people is a positive for me, and now that, you know, it used to be that all the publishers were in New York City.

Marvel was there, DC was there, and you'd walk your work in, you'd hang out with editors, other writers, artists, you push your work or find new projects by being in person.

It's not true anymore.

DC doesn't really even have offices anymore, so, that's made it even worse for those of us who are, in essence, just willing to hide from the world.

So, being at The Kubert School has been a real benefit in that respect.

- And you started working on...

I know you worked on "Batman" at DC, then you worked on, I think it was "Martian Manhunter", and then "The Spectre", so is it something where an editor sees something in your work and says, "You should be working on these sort of spooky, "scary, heavy shadow books?"

Or is it something where you're just like, "That's the sort of assignment that I love?"

- Well, DC offered me "The Batman", and that was like, 1985.

"The Spectre", which came after several other projects that I did at DC, John and I actually put a proposal together for that.

They didn't wanna do "The Spectre", so when we asked for "The Spectre", and we put that proposal together, it's like, nobody wants "The Spectre", so it was our idea to do that, and they were like, "Oh, all right," [chuckles] and it turned out to be a success, we were right.

And that was the same thing with "Martian Manhunter".

John and I picked both of those projects out, and even though DC was not particularly interested in either of those characters at the time, that's what we wanted to do, so they weren't asking us for that, we were chasing those characters.

Very different than having them say, "Hey, why don't you do this project?"

- And I guess my last question's going to be, you started as a penciller/inker, and I'm just wondering, when you are working, are you doing complete pencils, and then doing the inks?

Or are you sort of leaving things loose, and hoping things are gonna snap together when you're putting the pen [Tom laughing] or the brush to the page?

- I love that, hoping that things are gonna come together.

That's actually really good.

So, because I ink most of my own stuff, almost always, I'm a pretty loose penciler, and that's because I know what I want to have happen, and yes, sometimes there are happy accidents, sometimes there are little disasters, but it's never so bad that you can't resolve it, but I do love to ink my own stuff, and I tell my students, you know, layout, storytelling, that's the hard part, and the most important part, because this is, after all, about storytelling, it's not about pretty pictures, necessarily, it's about reaching the reader through narrative storytelling, and then penciling is laying it out, or getting the structure underneath it, but for me, the inking is the icing on the cake.

It's the thing that I love the most, so that's the fun.

After all that hard work, I want to be in there playing with the ink line, so that's why I like to do the whole thing, all the artwork myself, - Ron Garney is another artist I followed from book to book over the course of his career.

You are an artist who's known [attendees chattering] for your work at Marvel and DC, but you are also one of the co-creators of "BRZRKR", which is, from what I understand, he's got a celebrity pedigree?

- [laughs] Yeah, well, actually, Keanu created it.

He came up with the idea, then he kind of got in contact with Boom Studios, and they came up with a deal to make a comic book, and then I got...

I didn't come into the project till like a year after.

It was sort of floundering, where what, they weren't even sure it was gonna happen, and then I was leaving my contract with Marvel, and so, I wanted to do something else, and this just sort of shot like a lightning bolt into my life.

I got a phone call, and they asked if I could do a Zoom meeting with them, Boom Studios, and when I pressed the button, there's Keanu staring at me.

[laughs] So it was, "Hey, what's going on?"

You know, very strange, but the rest is pretty much history.

You know, he told me all about the project, and it was two and a half years in the making, we finally got it done, so we're gonna do another one coming up soon, next year, another 12 issues, so... - And is there ever a worry, you know, you leaving the security of Marvel to strike out onto something that has, I mean, Keanu Reeves is a big name, but he's not known for his comic work, so is there ever a concern that, you know, maybe the mortgage might not get paid this month?

- No, not really.

I mean, you know, at some point, you have to roll the dice in life, you know?

I mean, I'm not a spring chicken anymore, and I was with Marvel for over 30 years, 35 years, and DC a couple of those, but, you know, it was time for me.

You know, you have to trust your instincts, and I felt like it was, you know, it was during COVID, and I was working on "Juggernaut", and I just felt it, you know?

It was time to move on and try to find, do something, 'cause I had a lot of ideas myself that I wanted to get made, and you know, and then this just...

I just happened to be leaving that, and then this fell into my lap, so that's what happens.

Had I not done that, I wouldn't have done this, and this has been a big success as far as Keanu's concerned.

He's not known for comic books, but he's been in the storytelling industry, you know, as long as I've been in comics, for 35 years, so he seamlessly kind of fit right in.

You know, he was, obviously, he likes to learn.

He is a brilliant guy, and, [clicking tongue] but I noticed that his storytelling chops are all there, you know, so it worked really well.

- And when we're at a convention, we're at Baltimore Comic-Con, when you're at a convention, you interact with fans, you do commissions, so how much of your day is spent drawing, and how much of it is spent, you know, maybe wandering around saying hello to people?

[Ron laughing] - I just wander around.

[Terence laughing] Hey.

What's going on, man?

[laughs] It's a very time consuming career, believe me.

It's very time consuming, being here, and doing commissions, and things like that, and trying to get them good, you know, because you want it to be quality work for people, you know?

It's like anything else, it takes time, but you know, there's some guys who are, it's a little more effortless for them.

I'm not one of them.

I have to really work at it to be good, you know?

But I was always someone who's willing to put the time in, you know?

So, I mean, I, that was another reason why I decided to kind of move on from my contract, 'cause I was getting very burnt out from doing regular books, sitting in a room for endless hours, you know, and not seeing the outside world, you know?

So, I took the summer off, and, you know, I started doing some conventions just so I could get out and breathe a little bit, and relieve the anxiety of deadline stress, but overall, it's a lot of work, and we do the best we can, but you have to love it a little bit, you know?

At the end of the day, when you finish it, and you come up with something that's, you know, a cool piece of art, it's very gratifying, so all that work means something to you, you know?

So, that's the important thing, is that we love it.

We love what we do.

- After a career at Marvel and DC, writer/artist Sean Chen is working with 247 Comics for his creator-owned series, "Evermind".

Sean, you are known [attendees chattering] for your work at Marvel at DC, but you're with another publisher here at Baltimore Comic-Con, so what is it about 247 that made you want to get involved?

- Well, I think the lifecycle of most comic book artists, you kind of start out like the goal is to get into Marvel or DC, so once you're in there for a while, there, I think it's something that's good to do is kind of rotate out and get the new blood in there, and Marvel/DC's like a kind of a young man's game.

It's like where you really learn your chops, and really grind, so once you're out of that, since they own all those characters, you take your experience and you actually kind of create your own stories and characters, so that's what this 247 Comics kind of affords me.

- So you're known for your superheroics work, but is there another type of genre that you're looking to maybe scratch an itch?

- Yeah, I, you know, superheroes is kind of like the thing that Marvel and DC do, and they do it very well, and that stuff works really well for comics, visually, and it's a great kind of stories for comics.

I'm more of like a science fiction guy, so my story is science fiction, and you can have, like, since it's so saturated out there with superheroes, there's also even talk of like, superhero fatigue because of all the movies, so science fiction seemed to be like the new frontier that is kind of like, less, you know, it's less tapped, so that's kind of where the direction of my story is going.

- And what is your current project that you are most excited about?

- So what I'm doing now for 247 Comics is a comic called "Evermind", and it's a story that I came up with, and it's a science fiction story.

It's kind of like a dystopian future, a lot of heavy themes, and it's very like a nuanced story that has a human component to it, so it's not just like, robot and spaceship battles, it's really a story about a father and a daughter and their relationship, and it's, I think it's a very exciting story.

It's different from their typical superhero fair.

- What I really like about science fiction is that you can look at contemporary issues in a futuristic way, and the audience isn't necessarily aware that you might have a message in there about, you know, the world.

Is that something that you're kind of maybe sneaking in, the vegetables in the chocolate pudding?

- Absolutely, so yeah, I think it's a good way to kind of like, to make a statement about the world.

Like, in fact, all writing is like that.

Every writer deep down inside is trying to make a case for how people should live their lives, and it's kind of told through story form.

So, my story is a lot about like being very careful about trying to achieve greatness at any cost, and so the protagonist is a highly flawed character, and then I kind of put him through his paces, and you can see what happens if you kind of make the wrong decisions in life.

- I saw a lot of familiar faces at Baltimore Comic-Con, including HeroesCon organizer, Karla Southern.

I'm speaking with Karla Southern, who you might recognize [attendees chattering] from any of our HeroesCon specials.

You are one of the organizers of HeroesCon, but you're at the - What's that?

Baltimore Comic-Con, - Calcom Collecting?

So what's it like going to another show when you organize your own show?

- Well, it's not as much work for me, [Terence chuckling] which is the best part about going to another show, but we're also friends with Marc Nathan, who runs the Baltimore Comic Book Show, and we've been supporting him.

We've been here for all 24 years of his show, and this is another comic book show, like, this is the closest thing to HeroesCon, I think, on the circuit even, so we, you know, we like to support each other.

Marc comes and sets up at HeroesCon in the summer, and then we come here in the early fall and set up here.

- And you are set up here, you've got, - Yeah.

- You've got a lot of books on the rack there, you've got a lot of books in boxes, so, as a retailer, you know, how much logistics are you putting in to make sure you've got the right books for a show like this?

- Well, you definitely have to know, like, what is your demographic, who's coming?

Is it people looking to buy Gold and Silver, and you know, older books?

or is it newer books?

And there are plenty of newer books in the room, so we always try to bring vintage, Gold and Silver Age stuff.

As far as like, the logistics, you know, doing a show that's seven hours away from home is a bit of a trek.

You know, it's, you gotta rent a van, and you gotta travel, so we've got a shop, so we have to have somebody to run the shop while the cats are away at a show, and you know, there's hotel rooms, and you gotta take care of dinners for everybody who's on the road with you, so, I mean, the logistics behind it are... People don't think about that.

They think you're just here having fun, but it's also a lot of, there's expenses that go into it, so... - Now, you do mention having fun, and I know for us working here this weekend, I've yet to look at a single comic book, [Karla laughing] so, do you get a chance to sneak away and look for something that you enjoy?

- I did get to actually walk around and talk to the creators that we bring into HeroesCon every year, but I'm so busy at the our show, I don't actually get to see them at our show, so like, I got to go see Walt Simonson for 30 minutes, and sit with Joe Staton and his wife, Hilary for half an hour, and talk to Bob McLeod, and actually like, catch up, 'cause they see me at HeroesCon when they check in, and they see me like, for like, three seconds on the floor, if I'm running to put out this fire, running to put out that fire, and they're like, "Hi, bye, we'll see you in Baltimore," [Terence chuckling] so, it is nice to be able to come up here and actually shop, and you know, talk to creators who may be here who haven't done HeroesCon, and try to convince new guests to come to the show, new vendors, who I see they're set up here, and I'm like, "Oh, you would be a great fit for our show.

"Why don't you give HeroesCon a chance?"

It's a good way to recruit new people for our show for the next year, too.

- It's the end of the third [motors rumbling] day of Baltimore Comic-Con.

I'm exhausted, and we've run out of time for this episode of "Comic Culture".

Thanks so much for watching, we'll see you again soon.

[adventurous music] "Comic Culture" is a production of the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

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