REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS AN EXTRAORDINARY WRITER WITH A FASCINATING BOOK, OUR GUEST IS BARBARA RAE-VENTER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>BARBARA: THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME, LORENE.

THIS IS EXCITING.

>>LORENE: WELL, I LOVE YOUR BOOK, THE TITLE OF IT IS I KNOW WHO YOU ARE, HOW AN AMATEUR DNA SLEUTH UNMASKED THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER AND CHANGED CRIME FIGHTING FOREVER .

AND HERE IS THE COVER OF THE BOOK, THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY READ, IT'S ACTUALLY CHANGED CRIME FIGHTING, BUT IT CHANGED ME, I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM IT.

YOU WERE NOMINATED FOR AN EDGAR AWARD FOR THE BEST CRIME FACT FICTION, WHICH I DIDN'T KNOW THEY GAVE AWARDS FOR THAT, BUT THEY SHOULD BECAUSE IT'S INTRIGUING.

TELL ME A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND, ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVE THAT YOU SERVED AT ONE TIME AS A PATENT ATTORNEY AND YOU WERE DOING GENETIC RESEARCH ON DIFFERENT KINDS OF TOMATOES, WHICH PREPARED YOU FOR ALL THIS GENETIC STUFF.

BUT TELL ME ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.

>>BARBARA: SO IN A NUTSHELL, I HAVE A BACKGROUND IN BIOLOGY, I HAVE A PHD IN BIOLOGY.

ACTUALLY, I'VE DONE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS ALONG THE WAY.

WHEN I FIRST CAME TO THE US, WHICH WAS IN 1968, I HAD JUST TURNED 20 YEARS OLD, I WANTED TO GO TO UNIVERSITY, SO I WENT TO A LOCAL JUNIOR COLLEGE, CALLED THE COLLEGE OF SAN MATEO, WHICH WAS IN SAN MATEO, CALIFORNIA.

I STARTED OUT AS A FRENCH LITERATURE MAJOR, IN NEW ZEALAND I HAD GONE TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL WHERE WHAT THEY DID IS THEY TAUGHT YOU HOW TO BE A PROPER YOUNG LADY AND OF COURSE PROPER YOUNG LADIES SPOKE FRENCH.

SO, I HAVE BEEN LEARNING FRENCH SINCE I WAS ABOUT SIX YEARS OLD, FROM THE JUNIOR COLLEGE I THEN TRANSFERRED TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IN SAN DIEGO AND OVER THE SUMMER BETWEEN THE TWO YEARS AT THE JUNIOR COLLEGE AND DOING THE TRANSFER, I DECIDED TO SWITCH TO BEING A PREMED MAJOR.

SO, I OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF THE PREREQUISITES, SO I HAD TO SORT OF START OVER IN THE SCIENCES, OF COURSE DOING A PREMED MAJOR I WAS ALSO A PSYCH MAJOR AND THE TWO WERE SOMEWHAT MUTUALLY INCONSISTENT IN TERMS OF THE CLASSES TO TAKE.

I EVENTUALLY ENDED UP GRADUATING WITH A DOUBLE MAJOR AND THEN WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL FOR THE PHD AND THEN FROM THERE I WAS DOING CANCER RESEARCH, BREAST CANCER RESEARCH, FROM THERE I WAS THEN AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT THE MEDICAL SCHOOL IN GALVESTON AND THEN DECIDED THAT MAYBE I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, I WAS A TEXAS STATE RESIDENT, SO I APPLIED TO LAW SCHOOL, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS.

IF MEMORY SERVES CORRECTLY BECAUSE I WAS A STATE RESIDENT, THE TUITION WAS SOMETHING LIKE 79$, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS A QUARTER OR A SEMESTER.

SO I DID THAT AND THEN WHAT I WAS REALLY GOING TO DO WAS, I WAS INTERESTED IN MEDICAL ETHICS, SO THAT WAS WHAT I WAS PLANNING ON DOING WHEN I GRADUATED, BUT WHEN I WAS LOOKING FOR JOBS, WHEN I WAS GRADUATING, PEOPLE WOULD LOOK AT MY RESUME, SEE ALL THE SCIENCE, AND SAY WELL YOU SHOULD BE A PATENT ATTORNEY.

I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PATENT LAW, SO I TOOK A COUPLE OF CLASSES THAT WERE OFFERED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AND FOUND IT VERY INTERESTING.

THAT WAS ACTUALLY WHAT I ENDED UP DOING WAS BIOTECH PATENT LAW.

>>LORENE: THAT'S AN INTRIGUING ODYSSEY.

>>BARBARA: YES, I'VE DONE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO OF COURSE, FOR SOMEBODY WHO REALLY ENJOYS SCIENCE BEING A PATENT ATTORNEY, PARTICULARLY WHAT I WAS DOING, I WAS ACTUALLY WRITING THE PATENTS AND APPLYING FOR THE PATENTS WITH THE PATENT OFFICE.

SO YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW ANY OF THAT STUFF BECAUSE IT'S ALL NEW AND SPIFFY AND YOU WERE LEARNING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF FASCINATING STUFF IN THE AREA THAT YOU'RE WORKING IN, SO IT WAS REALLY A LOT OF FUN.

>>LORENE: I WAS REALLY INTRIGUED BECAUSE YOU HAD WORKED WITH PATENTS FOR TOMATOES, THAT THERE WAS A SPECIAL TOMATO THAT LASTED LONGER, COULD BE PICKED FRESHER, WAS THAT CALLED THE TOMATO SAFE OR SAVE?

>>BARBARA: IT WAS CALLED THE FLAVOR SAVER TOMATO.

>>LORENE: FLAVOR SAVER TOMATO.

>>BARBARA: IT HAD BEEN GENETICALLY MODIFIED SO THAT THE ENZYME THAT WOULD NORMALLY BREAK DOWN THE OUTSIDE OF THE TOMATO WHEN IT WAS RIPENING HAD BEEN BLOCKED.

SO THE TOMATO COULD BE LEFT ON THE VINE LONGER AND THEN PICKED WHEN IT WAS RIPE.

THERE IS ACTUALLY A FUNNY STORY THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT THOUGH, BECAUSE NORMALLY FOR SHIPPING, TOMATOES ARE PICKED GREEN, SO THE FIRST YEAR THAT THEY WERE WORKING WITH THE FLAVOR SAVER TOMATO THEY HAD A COUPLE OF ISSUES.

THE FIRST ONE WAS THAT THE FARMERS THAT WERE GROWING TOMATOES DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THESE WERE GENETICALLY MODIFIED TOMATOES AND SO THEY THEN REFUSED TO GROW THE TOMATOES, SO THE FIRST YEAR THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY TOMATOES, THE FOLLOWING YEAR THEY HAD CONTRACTED WITH FARMERS IN MEXICO AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, EVEN THOUGH THIS WAS A CALIFORNIA COMPANY, THEY HAD STARTED A NEW COMPANY FOR DOING THESE TOMATOES AND THEY HAD IT IN CHICAGO FOR SOME REASON.

SO, THEY ARE SHIPPING THE TOMATOES FROM MEXICO TO CHICAGO, SO THEY PUT ALL THE TOMATOES IN THE TRUCKS, SHIPPED THEM OFF TO CHICAGO, AND OF COURSE THESE ARE RIPE TOMATOES, YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE WHEN THEY GOT TO CHICAGO.

>>LORENE: OH DEAR, OH DEAR.

WELL, I'M INTRIGUED BY WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH HELPING PEOPLE, SUPPORTING PEOPLE TO FIND, USING DNA, GENETIC GENEALOGY, TO HELP PEOPLE FIND THEIR FAMILY ORIGIN, TO HELP PEOPLE FIND RELATIVES AND YOU GENEROUSLY OFFER HELP ANYONE, YOU HAVE SEARCH ANGELS THAT HELP ADOPTEES FIND THEIR ORIGINS AND THEIR FAMILY.

YOU EXPERIENCED A LOT OF TWISTS AND TURNS IN YOUR OWN FAMILY GENEALOGY.

IF YOU COULD GIVE US THE SHORT VERSION OF THE ROUNDTREE EPISODE IN YOUR FAMILY HISTORY IF YOU CAN.

>>BARBARA: SURE.

SO, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABOUT ENGLISH AND SCOTTISH HISTORY.

MY ANCESTORS IN THE ROUNDTREE LINE THAT YOU'RE MENTIONING, I HAD A COUSIN WHO WAS A DESCENDANT OF MY GRANDMOTHER'S, I GUESS, ONE OF HER NEPHEWS.

HE WAS STILL ALIVE, HE WAS IN HIS 80S IN NEW ZEALAND, HE HAS SINCE ACTUALLY PASSED AWAY.

BUT I ASKED HIM IF HE WOULD DO DNA TESTING AND SO WE TESTED HIM, WE HAD THOUGHT, OF COURSE, HE WOULD COME BACK AS BEING A ROUNDTREE AND HE DIDN'T, HE CAME BACK AS BEING ACTUALLY A MATCH WITH QUITE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF MEN IN A PROJECT ON FAMILY TREE DNA THAT WAS FOR MEN WHO WERE DESCENDED FROM THE IRWIN CLAN, WHICH IS IN THE SOUTH OF SCOTLAND.

MY ANCESTORS WERE FROM SUNDERLAND IN THE NORTH OF ENGLAND.

SO BACK IN THE DAY, THEY HAD WHAT WERE CALLED BORDER REIVERS AND WHAT THESE WERE IS THEY WERE, SO FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER, PEOPLE WOULD GO ACROSS THE BORDER, PILLAGING, RAPING, YOU KNOW, STEALING STUFF AND SO THEY ACTUALLY DEVELOPED SOMETHING CALLED BORDER LAW.

AND SO, IF SOMEBODY HAD STOLEN YOUR WIFE, YOU WERE ACTUALLY ALLOWED TO GO BACK ACROSS THE BORDER, AS LONG AS YOU DID IT WITH ALL DUE HUE AND CRY, YOU HAD TO MAKE LOTS OF NOISE WHILE YOU WERE DOING IT, AND THEN YOU COULD TAKE BACK YOUR COW OR YOUR WIFE, WHATEVER YOU WANTED TO TAKE BACK AND YOU HAD TO DO IT WITHIN THREE DAYS.

SO WHAT HAPPENED IS, I KEPT TRYING TO FIND ROUNDTREE RELATIVES WHO WERE DIRECT DESCENDANTS IN THE MALE LINE, I HAD GOTTEN BACK TO THAT TIME PERIOD PRETTY MUCH.

SO I FIGURED THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO MY FAMILY IS WE WERE THE VICTIMS OF A BORDER REIVER AT SOME POINT, BECAUSE WE WERE CERTAINLY NOT ROUNDTREES.

SO IT WAS KIND OF AN INTERESTING FINDING AND NOT SOMETHING YOU WOULD EVER FIND WITHOUT THE DNA.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT'S INTRIGUING TO ME THE WHOLE DNA GENETIC GENEALOGY INVESTIGATIONS AND WHAT IT HAS LED.

YOU STARTED OUT AT ONE POINT IN 2014, YOU SET UP A DNA ADOPTION WEBSITE, BUT THEN THE SAN BERNARDINO SHERIFF CALLED YOU AND ASKED IF YOUR METHODOLOGY COULD BE USED TO IDENTIFY A LIVING GIRL.

CAN YOU TELL US WHO WAS LISA JENSEN, IT WAS A COLD CASE, AND WHAT WERE THEY ABLE TO DO, AND WASN'T THIS YOUR FIRST CRIMINAL CASE?

>>BARBARA: YES, IT WAS.

I WAS ACTUALLY WORKING WITH A GROUP CALLED DNA ADOPTION AND SO THE DEPUTY IN SAN BERNARDINO, HE HAD SEEN THAT WE WERE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TEACH PEOPLE WHO WERE ADOPTED TO USE THEIR, WHAT WE CALL AUTOSOMAL DNA TO FIND THEIR BIRTH RELATIVES.

AND SO, YES, I WAS ABLE TO, I TOLD HIM THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SAME TECHNIQUE SHOULD WORK TO IDENTIFY LISA.

SHE HAD ACTUALLY BEEN ABDUCTED WHEN SHE WAS AN INFANT, SHE WAS ACTUALLY, WHEN WE IDENTIFIED HER, WE LEARNED THAT SHE HAD ACTUALLY ONLY BEEN SIX MONTHS OLD AND SHE HAD BEEN WITH THE PERSON WHO HAD ABDUCTED HER, SHE WAS RECOVERED WHEN SHE WAS ABOUT FIVE YEARS OLD, BASED ON HER DENTAL DEVELOPMENT.

SO, YEAH, IT'S A VERY POWERFUL TECHNIQUE.

>>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

YOU HAD TO WORK ON THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER CASE, D'ANGELO, THAT'S HIS NAME, RIGHT?

HOW DID WORKING ON THAT CASE AFFECT YOU, IT WAS SO HORRIBLE, AND I THINK THE EMOTIONAL IMPACT OF WORKING WITH CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN WOULD HAVE A VERY POWERFUL, PAINFUL EFFECT.

>>BARBARA: YEAH, SO IN LISA'S CASE, THE MAN WHO HAD ABDUCTED HER, HE WAS A PEDOPHILE AND HIS MO WAS TO FIND WOMEN WHO HAD SMALL CHILDREN AND HE WOULD ABDUCT THEM AND AT SOME POINT HE WOULD KILL THE MOTHER AND THEN ALSO AT SOME POINT HE WOULD ACTUALLY, WHEN THE CHILDREN GOT OLD ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO DESCRIBE WHAT WAS BEING DONE TO THEM, THAT'S THE HYPOTHESIS IS HE WOULD THEN KILL THEM.

WE DON'T KNOW WHY HE DIDN'T KILL LISA, BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON HE DID NOT.

BUT YES, YOU'RE RIGHT, WORKING ON THESE CASES, THEY'RE EMOTIONALLY DRAINING, WHAT I DO TO COMBAT THAT IS, I ENJOY GARDENING AND SO I PARTICULARLY ENJOY GROWING THINGS FROM EITHER CUTTINGS OR SEEDS, THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT SITTING THERE AND WATCHING LITTLE SEEDLINGS COME UP, LITTLE CUTTINGS SPROUT ROOTS, THAT'S VERY THERAPEUTIC.

SO, I COMBAT SOME OF THE DARKNESS WITH THAT.

>>LORENE: WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH BARBARA RAE-VENTER ABOUT HER WONDERFUL BOOK, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE, HOW AN AMATEUR DNA SLEUTH UNMASKED THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER AND CHANGED CRIME FIGHTING FOREVER.

BECAUSE YOU REALLY DID CHANGE CRIME FIGHTING, BUT ONE OF THE MOST POIGNANT THINGS I READ IN YOUR BOOK, D'ANGELO WAS THE NAME OF THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER AND WHEN HE WAS FINALLY IN COURT, THERE WERE THREE DAYS OF ALL THE VICTIMS TESTIFYING TO THE HORRIBLE THINGS HE HAD DONE AND HOW MUCH PAIN AND SUFFERING THEY'D BEEN THROUGH AND THEN THE JUDGE SAID TO THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER, ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMPREHENDING THE PAIN AND ANGUISH YOU CAUSED, BECAUSE HE HAD GIVEN SOME MUMBLY.

OH, I'M SO SORRY WITHOUT REALIZING AND THE JUDGE HAD TO NAIL HIM DOWN AND SAY, ARE YOU CAPABLE OF EVEN COMPREHENDING THE PAIN AND SUFFERING YOU CAUSED, AND WE'LL NEVER KNOW.

HE'S NOW IN A HIGH SECURITY, ALL MALE PRISON, THE WORST OF THE WORST GO THERE AND HE'S NEVER GOING TO GET OUT.

I'D LIKE TO TALK WITH YOU A LITTLE MORE ABOUT IGG, IT'S CALLED INVESTIGATIVE GENETIC GENEALOGY, AND HOW IT HAS BEEN USED AS A NEW WEAPON TO SOLVE COLD CASES.

LET'S TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THE DNA TECHNOLOGY, BECAUSE IT EXPANDS AND CONTRACTS AND SOMETIMES THERE'S A BACKLASH AGAINST IT, SOMETIMES IT'S VERY POPULAR, WE LOVE FINDING THESE THINGS OUT, AND THEN SOMEHOW PEOPLE FEEL IT CROSSES THE LINE.

YOU HAD MENTIONED YOUR ETHICAL INTERESTS, SO THE ETHICAL QUESTION THIS LEADS US TO IS, IS IT A VIOLATION OF A PERSON'S PRIVACY TO POST THEIR DNA DATA, PROBABLY THE MOST INTIMATE DATA THERE IS ABOUT YOU.

THEY ASK THAT QUESTION, BUT THE HORSE IS ALREADY OUT OF THE BARN, IT'S VERY EASY TO FIND ANYBODY'S DNA MATERIAL OR THEIR INFORMATION, WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS ON THE ETHICS OF THIS?

>>BARBARA: WELL, SO LET'S PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER.

FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH HIS CRIME SPREE, HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ABOUT 150 BREAK-INS TO PEOPLE'S HOMES, HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR, THAT WE KNOW OF, 50 RAPES AND HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR, THAT WE KNOW OF, 13 HOMICIDES.

THIS WAS NOT A GOOD GUY.

HE HAD LEFT HIS DNA OBVIOUSLY, ALL OVER THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, HE WAS VERY ACTIVE, BOTH IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA AND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AND SO THE 1ST ISSUE THAT IS OFTEN RAISED IS, IS IT A VIOLATION OF PRIVACY TO BE EVEN LOOKING AT HIS DNA TO IDENTIFY HIM?

I THINK THE QUESTION THERE IS, AND ACTUALLY THERE IS PLENTY OF CASE LAW ON THIS, IS THAT DNA THAT HE'S LEFT ALL OVER IS ABANDONED DNA AND THERE IS NO PRIVACY RIGHTS IN ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE ABANDONED.

IN TERMS OF THE SITES THAT WE USE TO TRY TO BUILD FAMILY TREES TO IDENTIFY SOMEBODY WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE TAKING THE DNA THAT'S FROM THE CRIME SCENE, WE'RE PRODUCING A DNA PROFILE FROM THAT, WHICH THEN CAN BE UPLOADED TO A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT DIRECT TO CONSUMER SITES.

ONE OF THEM IS FAMILY TREE DNA AND THEN THE OTHER ONE IS A SITE CALLED GEDMATCH, WHICH ACTUALLY DOESN'T DO ANY TESTING.

IT'S JUST A SITE WHERE ANYBODY WHO'S TESTED BASICALLY ANYWHERE, THEY CAN UPLOAD THEIR DNA PROFILE THERE.

OF COURSE, THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE FOR THAT SITE WAS FOR DOING FAMILY HISTORY RESEARCH.

SO THEN THE QUESTION IS, OKAY, THOSE PEOPLE WHEN THEY UPLOADED THEIR FILES, THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY GIVING ANY CONSENT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO USE THAT INFORMATION.

SO THAT'S BEEN SORT OF TAKEN CARE OF, ORIGINALLY THERE WERE NO LIMITS ON WHAT COULD BE DONE WITH THE INFORMATION, SINCE THEN, BOTH FAMILY TREE DNA AND GEDMATCH HAVE REQUIRED THAT PEOPLE OPT IN WHEN THEY UPLOAD THEIR FILE, THAT THEY OPT INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT MATCHING.

SO THEY'RE GIVING PERMISSION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO USE THAT INFORMATION IN IDENTIFYING SUSPECTS IN VIOLENT CRIMES.

AND THEN VIOLENT CRIMES, THEY'RE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY DEFINED ON EACH SITE, BUT A VIOLENT CRIME IS BASICALLY MOTOR OR AGGRAVATED RAPE, SO IN THOSE SCENARIOS, IF YOU'VE SAID, YES, LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN USE MY DNA FOR THOSE, THEN THEY'VE ALREADY GIVEN THAT PERMISSION.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION OR IF YOU HAD FURTHER QUESTIONS.

>>LORENE: YES.

I WANT TO TAKE THAT ONE STEP FURTHER, BECAUSE I'M SO MOVED BY YOUR SEARCH ANGELS.

YOU OFFER TO HELP ANYONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, DO WE REALLY KNOW WHO WE ARE, BUT THERE ARE SOMETIMES CHILDREN THAT HAVE BEEN ABDUCTED AND THEN RETURNED AND TO FIND, LIKE WITH LISA, LITTLE LISA, FINDING OUT WHO SHE WAS AND GIVING HER A FAMILY OF ORIGIN AND GIVING HER A FAMILY.

IT ALL HAS TO DO WITH MANKIND'S ANCIENT SEARCH FOR BELONGING AND IN THE END, YOU SAID THIS IN YOUR BOOK, I LOVE IT SO MUCH, THAT MAYBE THAT'S ALL GENETIC GENEALOGY IS, A TOOL THAT HELPS US ACHIEVE WHAT WE DESIRE, WHAT WE YEARN FOR ON THE MOST PRIMAL LEVEL, TO BELONG.

THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT AND HAVING YOUR SEARCH ANGELS HELP BUT TELL ME HOW THAT'S WORKING OUT.

>>BARBARA: WELL, I ACTUALLY DO NOT STILL DO A LOT OF UNIDENTIFIED OR AT LEAST PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW WHO THEIR PARENTS ARE OR THEIR GRANDPARENTS, I DON'T DO A LOT OF THAT ANYMORE.

THERE ARE ACTUALLY TWO SITES, THERE'S THE ONE THAT I WAS WORKING WITH WHICH IS DNA ADOPTION.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ACTUALLY MIGHT BE REFERRING TO DNA DETECTIVES AND THAT'S NOT A SITE THAT I ACTUALLY WORK ON.

BUT FOR WHAT I'M DOING, YEAH, WE'RE VERY SUCCESSFUL AND BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY SUSPECTS AND OR UNIDENTIFIED REMAINS.

I HAVE ABOUT 15 PEOPLE IN MY GROUP, AND I THINK ALL OF US, THE MAIN IMPETUS FOR WHAT WE DO IS THAT WE'RE HELPING THE VICTIMS.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE GOLDEN STATE KILLERS CASE, THERE WERE SO MANY VICTIMS BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT JUST THE VICTIMS THEMSELVES, EITHER THE RAPE VICTIMS OR THEY ACTUALLY CALLED THEMSELVES SURVIVORS, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS NICE, BUT THEY'RE ALSO THE FAMILY MEMBERS.

SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE IMPACTED JUST BY THAT ONE MAN AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE THOUSANDS OF UNSOLVED RAPES IN THIS COUNTRY, JUST THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS.

>>LORENE: SO, TELL ME, PUT HIM IN A TIME SPAN, HOW LONG WAS HE ACTIVE, HOW LONG WAS HE DORMANT AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER HE WAS REVEALED?

>>BARBARA: HE WAS ACTIVE FOR A PERIOD OF ABOUT 12 YEARS THAT WE KNOW OF AND YOU'RE ASKING AN INTERESTING QUESTION ABOUT DORMANCY, BECAUSE YES, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SERIAL KILLERS OR SERIAL RAPISTS, AND HE WAS OBVIOUSLY BOTH, THEY DON'T STOP.

SO THE QUESTION IS, DID HE IN FACT STOP OR DID HE JUST CHANGE HIS MO, MAYBE GO AFTER LESS HIGH PROFILE PEOPLE.

I MEAN, THE OBVIOUS GROUP THAT THESE KINDS OF FOLKS GO AFTER ARE PEOPLE LIKE PROSTITUTES OR HOMELESS PEOPLE OR PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, DON'T HAVE ANYBODY WHO'S GOING TO BE REPORTING THEM MISSING.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION STILL REMAINS, DID HE IN FACT BECOME DORMANT.

IT WOULD BE UNUSUAL.

THEN OF COURSE, HE, AS PART OF HIS DEAL WITH THE PROSECUTORS, SO CALIFORNIA HAS A DEATH PENALTY, EVEN THOUGH AT THE MOMENT THERE'S A MORATORIUM ON IT, AND HE HAD ACTUALLY, AS PART OF WHAT HE WAS CHARGED WITH, HE WAS IN FACT ELIGIBLE FOR THE DEATH PENALTY.

IN EXCHANGE FOR THAT BEING TAKEN OFF THE TABLE, HE HAD TO AGREE THAT HE WAS GOING TO NOT ONLY ADMIT TO THE MURDERS THAT HE'D COMMITTED, BUT ALSO TO ALL OF THOSE RAPES AND IN CALIFORNIA, AT THE TIME THAT HE COMMITTED THOSE RAPES, THERE WAS A RELATIVELY SHORT STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.

AND SO FOR MOST OF THOSE, IF NOT ALL OF THEM, THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS HAD RUN AND HE COULD NOT ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH THOSE.

SO HE HAD TO AGREE THAT HE WAS GOING TO SIT THERE IN COURT AND ADMIT TO ALL OF THOSE.

THIS WAS HUGE FOR THE SURVIVORS, BECAUSE THEY GOT TO, HE HAD TO SIT THERE, THEY WOULD READ OUT EACH ONE AND THEN HE HAD TO SAY, I ADMIT, I ADMIT, I ADMIT, 50 TIMES.

>>LORENE: AND YOU MENTIONED THAT HE CHANGED HIS MO, HIS MODUS OPERANDI, BUT HE ALSO CHANGED HIS NAME ALL THE TIME.

SO, THEY'D BE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE AND HE WOULD HAVE CHANGED HIS NAME, CREATED A WHOLE OTHER IDENTITY FOR HIMSELF, AND CONTINUED, YOU KNOW, PERPETRATING THE CRIMES.

>>BARBARA: ACTUALLY, IT WASN'T HIM THAT CHANGED HIS NAME.

WHAT WAS KIND OF INTERESTING WAS THAT THE CRIMES WERE NOT ALL CONNECTED.

THE INITIAL ONES I HAD MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE SOMETHING LIKE 150 HOME INVASIONS, THOSE WERE ALL ATTRIBUTED TO SOMEBODY CALLED THE VISALIA RANSACKER BECAUSE HE WOULD GO IN, HE WOULD SPEND A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME IN SOMEBODY'S HOME AND HE WOULD BASICALLY JUST TEAR IT UP.

HE APPARENTLY WAS REALLY INTO WOMEN'S UNDERWEAR, HE WOULD DUMP OUT LINGERIE DRAWERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THEN WHEN HE ESCALATED TO RAPE, THE RAPES WERE THEN ALL ATTRIBUTED TO THE EAST AREA RAPISTS BECAUSE MOST OF THE ORIGINAL RAPES OCCURRED IN THE EAST AREA OF SACRAMENTO AND THEN WHEN HE ESCALATED TO MURDER, MOST OF THEM TOOK PLACE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

SO IT ACTUALLY TOOK SOMETHING LIKE 25 YEARS AND DNA TO ACTUALLY LINK THOSE THREE MONIKERS INTO BEING ONE PERSON AND THEN THE MONIKER THAT WAS THEN GIVEN TO HIM WAS THEN THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER.

SO HE HIMSELF, THOUGH, I DON'T THINK CHANGED HIS NAME, IT WAS JUST LAW ENFORCEMENT DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THEY HAD ONE GUY THAT WAS ACTUALLY DOING ALL OF THIS STUFF.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, RIGHT.

DNA RESEARCH IS CHANGING A WHOLE LOT, CAN YOU JUST GIVE ME A LITTLE HYPOTHESIS, HOW YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO CHANGE TO MAKE OUR LIVES BETTER AND LEARNING MORE ABOUT, NOT ONLY AS A CRIMINAL TOOL, BUT JUST IN TERMS OF OUR EVERYDAY LIFE IN A MINUTE, IF YOU CAN, SORRY.

>>BARBARA: WELL, I MEAN, THE MOST OBVIOUS THING IS THERE ARE NEW TOOLS THAT HAVE BEEN COMING AVAILABLE ALL THE TIME.

SO THE MOST TIME SYNC PART OF DOING GENETIC GENEALOGY IS THE BUILDING THE FAMILY TREES, THAT CAN TAKE A LOT OF TIME, PARTICULARLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE RELATIVES TO THE PERSON YOU'RE TRYING TO IDENTIFY.

AND SO THERE'S NEW TOOLS BECOMING AVAILABLE, BASICALLY USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO TRY TO BUILD THOSE TREES AND THEN THAT CAN BE DONE REALLY FAST.

SO, IF WE CAN SPEED THAT UP WOULD BE WONDERFUL, BECAUSE THEN WE COULD CLEAR THE BACKLOG OF A LOT OF THESE CASES.

ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE, I MEAN, JUST FROM A MEDICAL STANDPOINT, EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SOCIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PEOPLE THAT YOU IDENTIFY AS BEING RELATIVES, JUST KNOWING SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR FAMILY, ABOUT POTENTIAL ISSUES THAT COULD COME UP IN YOUR MEDICAL HISTORY, THAT CAN BE REALLY HUGE.

AND ALL OF US AGAIN, IF THE TOOLS BECOME AVAILABLE, PEOPLE COULD DO IT FAIRLY QUICKLY AND INEXPENSIVELY.

RIGHT NOW, IT'S FAIRLY EXPENSIVE, EITHER FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OR FOR INDIVIDUALS TO DO THIS KIND OF RESEARCH.

>>LORENE: WELL, THANK YOU, KEEP US UPDATED AS THINGS PROGRESS.

BUT OUR GUEST TODAY IS BARBARA RAE-VENTER ABOUT HER WONDERFUL BOOK, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE, HOW AN AMATEUR DNA SLEUTH UNMASKED THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER AND CHANGED CRIME FIGHTING FOREVER.

THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THIS WONDERFUL BOOK AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

>>BARBARA: MY PLEASURE, THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: AND I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON THIS INTRIGUING EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM