>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

RWJBARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE, THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY INDUSTRY AND BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

♪♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ.

I'M JOANNA.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ALL THINGS TRENTON, BUT FIRST I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE OUR ESTEEMED PANEL OF REPORTERS THIS WEEK.

WE HAVE NJ SPOTLIGHT'S OWN JOHN REITMEYER, WE HAVE SOFIA NIETO MUNOZ AND MATT ARCO.

WELCOME ALL OF YOU.

WE WILL TALK TO YOU IN A BIT, AND THEY WILL ALSO HAVE QUESTIONS AS WELL FOR SENATE MINORITY LEADER STEVE.

THIS WEEK, THE DEMOCRATS LED BY GOVERNOR MURPHY ANNOUNCED AN EXPANSION OF THE PROPOSED ANCHOR PROGRAM THAT WOULD GIVE MONEY DIRECTLY BACK TO TAXPAYERS.

LET ME JUST LAY OUT THE DETAILS OF THAT PLAN QUICKLY.

EARNERS UP TO $150,000 WOULD RECEIVE $1,500 IN TAX REBATES.

EARNERS BETWEEN $150,000 TO $250,000 WOULD GET $1,000 BACK.

AND RENTERS ACTUALLY MAKE UP ABOUT HALF OF THOSE EARNING THE REBATE, THEY WOULD GET $450.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?

WHAT IS THE REACTION OF THE GOP HERE IN NEW JERSEY TO THAT PLAN?

>> QUITE FRANKLY, WE'RE GLAD THAT THE GOVERNOR AND THE DEMOCRAT MAJORITY IS LOOKING AT GIVING MONEY BACK TO THE RESIDENTS OF NEW JERSEY.

AS YOU KNOW, THE SENATE REPUBLICANS HAD A "GIVE IT BACK" PLAN, WHICH WOULD HAVE GIVEN SIMPLY MORE MONEY BACK TO OUR RESIDENTS OF NEW JERSEY AND WOULD HAVE GIVEN IT BACK MUCH QUICKER.

I THINK THE ANCHOR PROGRAM THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS LAID OUT IS BASICALLY GIVING MONEY BACK IN 2023.

WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE SENATE REPUBLICAN PLAN WAS TO GET IT BACK INTO THEIR POCKETS THIS YEAR IN 2022.

AND WE WOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO SIMPLY MORE PEOPLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE THANKFUL AT LEAST WE INFLUENCED THEM TO NOT ONLY COME OUT WITH A PROGRAM BUT ALSO TO INCREASE THE PROGRAM ONCE THE REVENUES CAME IN SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN WHAT THEY HAD EXPECTED.

SO, WE WOULD HAVE DONE IT SIGNIFICANTLY MORE MONEY.

WE WOULD HAVE DONE IT SIGNIFICANTLY QUICKER.

BUT AT LEAST WE INFLUENCED THEM IN HAVING A PROGRAM TO GET MONEY BACK INTO THE POCKETS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT THE MONEY WOULD BE REIMBURSED NEXT YEAR.

I BELIEVE THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN SAYS MAY OF 2023, AND FOR SOME FOLKS, THIS IS NOT A DIRECT CHECK.

THIS IS ACTUALLY JUST A CREDIT.

SO, YOUR "GIVE IT BACK" PLAN WOULD HAVE GIVEN CHECKS DIRECTLY TO FAMILIES, PUT CHECKS IN THE HANDS OF FAMILIES?

>> YES.

ACTUALLY, WHEN WE FIRST DID IT, REMEMBER, WE DID IT WHEN PEOPLE WERE STILL FILING THEIR INCOME TAX RETURNS.

WE SAID THAT PEOPLE COULD HAVE TAKEN A CREDIT RIGHT ON THEIR INCOME TAX RETURN.

THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY IS STILL PROCESSING REFUND CHECKS.

THEY COULD CERTAINLY PUT IT INTO REFUND CHECK OR THE PEOPLE COULD, OBVIOUSLY, GET A CHECK DIRECTLY BACK FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY.

BUT AS I SAID, OUR PROGRAM WAS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE MONEY, AND SIGNIFICANTLY, YOU KNOW, MORE RESIDENTS.

>> SENATOR, WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM JOHN REITMEYER.

JOHN, GO AHEAD.

>> I WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON JOANNA'S QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S SOME KEY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WHAT YOU AND FELLOW REPUBLICANS HAVE PROPOSED, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, AS YOU NOTED, THIS DOES PROVIDE A LOT OF TAX RELIEF TO NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND SEEMS TO ACCOMPLISH A SIMILAR GOAL, WHICH IS GETTING A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF THE SURPLUS THAT THIS STATE HAS RIGHT NOW BACK INTO THE HANDS OF SOME RESIDENTS.

DO REPUBLICANS PLAN TO CO-SPONSOR THE ANCHOR PROPOSAL?

I MEAN, ISN'T THIS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REPUBLICANS TO SORT OF DECLARE VICTORY AND SAY THAT YOUR ADVOCACY FOR TAX RELIEF HAS GOTTEN DEMOCRATS TO THIS POINT?

REMEMBER, IT WAS CHRIS CHRISTIE WHO ESTABLISHED THE DIRECT CREDIT ON PROPERTY TAX BILLS THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE USING AS THE VEHICLE FOR ANCHOR, SO WHY NOT JUST DECLARE VICTORY AND MOVE FORWARD HERE?

>> WELL, JOHN, FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE TO SEE ALL THE DETAILS IN THE PLAN BUT QUITE FRANKLY, JUST AS I MENTIONED, RIGHT NOW, I SUSPECT THERE'S GOING TO BE SUPPORT FOR IT.

THERE'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF SUPPORT FOR GETTING MONEY DIRECTLY BACK TO PEOPLE AS YOU MENTIONED.

SO QUITE FRANKLY, WE DO THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE HAD SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE HERE IN MAKING SURE PROGRAM BUT ALSO THAT THEY SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED THE PROGRAM.

JUST THE OTHER DAY, WHICH THEY ANNOUNCED, I GUESS, THEY HAVEN'T REALLY ANNOUNCED A BUDGET DEAL JUST YET BUT THEY DID COME OUT AND ANNOUNCE THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE THEIR ANCHOR PROGRAM, SO JOHN I DO THINK THAT WE HAD SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE THERE.

IF IT'S PUT FORTH AS A SEPARATE BILL, WHICH I THINK IT WILL BE, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ALMOST WIDE, WIDE SUPPORT FOR IT.

AND BELIEVE ME, WE'LL ALSO TAKE CREDIT FOR IT.

>> SENATOR, ACTUALLY LAST WEEK, DAVID HAD STEVE SWEENEY ON WHO WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT NEW JERSEY NEEDS TO BE REALLY CAREFUL WITH THE SURPLUS IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH MONEY THEY ACTUALLY USE IN GIVE-BACK PROGRAMS OR OTHERWISE FUND PROGRAMS THAT MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO BE FUNDED ONGOING.

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, IN JUST THIS LAST WEEK, WE HAVE SEEN THE FED SPIKE THE INTEREST RATES AND NOW TALK OF A RECESSION LOOMING IS KIND OF TURNING UP.

IS NOW THE TIME TO BE DOING A GIVE-BACK PROGRAM, OR SHOULD THE STATE BE HUNKERING DOWN AND PREPARING FOR SOME TOUGH TIMES AHEAD?

>> WELL, JOANNA, VERY GOOD QUESTION, AND HERE'S THE ISSUE THERE.

FIRST OF ALL, LET'S FACE IT.

A FEW YEARS AGO, LESS THAN TEN YEARS AGO, WHEN WE WERE ON A BUDGET COMMITTEE, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, WHAT'S THE SIZE OF THE SURPLUS, NOW IT'S CLOSE TO $11 BILLION.

OBVIOUSLY, THIS BUDGET WILL -- THE BUDGET DEAL WILL TAKE IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THEY'LL BE SPENDING SOME OF THE MONEY ON THIS ANCHOR PROGRAM AND WHATNOT.

HOWEVER, WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT, IF THERE WAS A 10% SURPLUS, THAT WOULD BE -- BECAUSE WE WERE DOWN INTO THE VERY, VERY LOW SINGLE DIGITS, THAT THAT WOULD BE A GOOD NUMBER.

WE'RE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN THAT NOW.

$5 BILLION, IN OUR PLAN, THE SENATE REPUBLICAN PLAN, WE CALL FOR MORE THAN A $5 BILLION SURPLUS, AND QUITE FRANKLY, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY PORTING MONEY, TAKING MONEY OUT OF THE ECONOMY IS WHAT CAN HELP CAUSE A DEEPER RECESSION FOR NEW JERSEY IF WE DO -- IF THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS NOT NIMBLE ENOUGH TO THREAD THE NEEDLE WITH RESPECT TO A SOFT LANDING, AND WE SAW IT IN NEW JERSEY ONCE BEFORE.

NEW JERSEY ENTERED THE -- THE EARLY 2000 RECESSION, AND WE NEVER REALLY FULLY RECOVERED FROM WHEN THE GREAT RECESSION HAPPENED IN 2008, 2009, SO QUITE FRANKLY, HAVING THAT MONEY IN THE ECONOMY WHERE PEOPLE ARE USING IT INSTEAD OF HOARDING IT AT THE STATE LEVEL IS SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER FOR THE ECONOMY.

AT THE SAME TIME, HAVING A HEALTHY SURPLUS IN THE RANGE OF THE $5 BILLION, I THINK, WOULD BE CERTAINLY SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN WHERE WE'VE BEEN IN THE PAST.

>> I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS QUICKLY.

DEMOCRATS HAVE A PACKAGE OF GUN REFORM BILLS THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE.

I WANT TO KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON THINGS LIKE HOLDING GUN MANUFACTURERS ACCOUNTABLE FOR GUNS THAT ILLEGALLY MAKE THEIR WAY INTO NEW JERSEY OR THAT CAUSE HARM TO OTHERS OR THINGS LIKE SAFE STORAGE OF GUNS, PEOPLE HAVING TO TAKE SAFETY CLASSES BEFORE GETTING A GUN PERMIT.

WHERE TO YOU STAND ON SOME OF THOSE ISSUES?

>> WELL, JOANNA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, NEW JERSEY, WE ALL KNOW NEW JERSEY HAS SOME OF THE STRICTEST GUN LAWS IN THE COUNTRY.

I THINK CALIFORNIA IS RATED BY THE BRADY COMMISSION NUMBER ONE AND NEW JERSEY, I THINK, IS RATED NUMBER TWO.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, WE -- I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON THE ISSUE OF THE VIOLENCE.

WHAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME NOW IS THE FACT THAT LEGAL GUN OWNERS IN NEW JERSEY, LEGAL GUN OWNERS IN NEW JERSEY ARE THE ONES THAT END UP GETTING HARMED BY A LOT OF THIS FEEL-GOOD KIND OF LEGISLATION WHERE, QUITE FRANKLY, IF WE WENT AFTER -- IF WE WENT AFTER, AS YOU SAID, THE ILLEGAL GUNS AND WHATNOT, WHICH NEW JERSEY HAS SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS, AND ALSO THE VIOLENCE ASPECT AND ALSO THE MENTAL HEALTH ASPECT, I THINK THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP TO CURTAIL ANY KIND OF VIOLENCE.

AND YOU MENTIONED ILLEGAL GUNS, AND QUITE FRANKLY, ILLEGAL GUNS AND CRIME, THAT'S THE ISSUE.

>> SO WOULD YOU VOTE IN SUPPORT OF A BILL THAT HELD GUN MANUFACTURERS ACCOUNTABLE?

>> HOLD GUN MANUFACTURERS ACCOUNTABLE?

I THINK WE ALWAYS HOLD CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE AND THAT, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE OF.

THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE DO WITH CAR MANUFACTURERS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHO -- IT'S PEOPLE WHO ARE USING THE MATERIAL, WHETHER IT BE A CAR, WHETHER IT BE A GUN, A KNIFE, A BAT, WHATEVER, IS IT THE MANUFACTURER OR IS IT THE USER?

>> YEAH.

THANK YOU.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME THAT WE HAVE, SENATOR, BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING ON AND TALKING WITH US TODAY.

GREAT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING IN TRENTON.

>> THANK YOU, JOANNA.

HAVE A GREAT DAY.

>> YOU AS WELL.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL.

I WANT TO PICK UP ON THAT GUN CONVERSATION.

THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE POLITICAL WILL TO MOVE THAT GUN PACKAGE FORWARD, EVEN AMONG DEMOCRAT, ALTHOUGH IT FEELS LIKE THERE IS SOME KIND OF GROUNDSWELL NATIONALLY AROUND GUN REFORM.

SOFIA, I'LL START WITH YOU.

WHY ARE DEMOCRATS NOT REALLY MOVING THESE BILLS FORWARD, AT LEAST IN THE SENATE?

DO YOU THINK IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE UP COMING MIDTERMS?

>> THEY HAVEN'T MOVED IT BECAUSE AS THE MINORITY LEADER JUST SAID, NEW JERSEY DOES HAVE THE SECOND STRONGEST GUN LAWS, SO THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THERE IS THIS PUSH TO MAKE NEW JERSEY'S GUN LAWS STRONGER.

SENATE PRESIDENT NICK SCUTARI SAID HE'S KEEPING AN OPEN MIND BUT NOT INTERESTED IN POSTING THOSE BILLS.

WE SAW THIS WEEK THAT THE COMMUNITY IS NOT REACTING WELL TO DEMOCRATS NOT WANTING TO POST THESE BILLS.

THERE WAS A SMALL RALLY OUTSIDE OF SCUTARI'S OFFICE IN CLARK THIS WEEK WITH EVERYTOWN AND MOMS DEMAND ACTION REALLY DEMANDING AND URGING THAT SCUTARI POST THESE BILLS, WHICH WOULD IMPROVE GUN SAFETY STORAGE, TRACK AMMO, AND LIKE YOU JUST SAID, THE LIABILITY WITH THE GUN MANUFACTURERS.

SO, YEAH, I THINK WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

BUT THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE THIS BIG PUSH FOR IT RIGHT NOW.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT ENERGIZES NEW JERSEYANS, THAT GETS THEM OUT TO THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS OR KEEPS THEM HOME?

>> WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GUNS OR THE BUDGET OR EXPANDING ACCESS TO ABORTION, THE UNDERPINNING THING IS NOT THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS FOR NEW JERSEY DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS.

IT'S WHAT THEY WITNESSED IN THE LAST NOVEMBER ELECTION.

AND THE UNDERLYING THEME IS THAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT REPUBLICANS GAINED SEATS, STATEWIDE GUBERNATORIAL RACE WAS WAY CLOSER THAN ANYBODY EXPECTED, SO THEY'RE JUST CONCERNED.

SO, WHAT I AM SEEING WITH THE STATE LEGISLATURE IS, OKAY, GOVERNOR MURPHY GOT RE-ELECTED TO A SECOND TERM.

HE'S FINE.

HE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING.

BUT WE HAVE AN ELECTION COMING UP A YEAR AFTER THE MIDTERMS SO THAT'S UNDERLYING EVERYTHING.

GUNS THEMSELVES, BECAUSE OF THE NATIONAL MOOD, IS LEGISLATURE IS NOT ON BOARD, ESPECIALLY IN THE SENATE, TO GO ALONG WITH A LOT OF THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSALS, BUT I'VE BEEN HEARING THAT MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, THEY'RE GOING TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE AND GET ON WITH SOME OF THE PARTS OF IT.

ONE OF THE ONES THAT YOU SAID ABOUT GOING AFTER GUN MANUFACTURERS SEEMS TO BE ONE THAT THEY CAN GET ALONG WITH, RAISING THE AGE FROM 18 TO 21 IS SOMETHING THAT ON A FEDERAL LEVEL, THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMEWHAT A LITTLE BIT OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

SO THERE WILL BE SOME ACTION ON A COUPLE OF THOSE ASPECTS, BUT YOU KNOW, THE REACTION FROM THE LAST ELECTION IS REALLY GUIDING HOW THE LEGISLATURE IS MOVING ON EVERYTHING.

>> AND THEY'RE NERVOUS, CLEARLY.

JOHN, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON OROHO KIND OF SAYING, HEY, WE INSPIRED THE DEMOCRATS TO DO THIS GIVE-BACK PROGRAM?

IN YOUR MIND, IS THIS KIND OF A RACE TO SEE WHICH PARTY CAN BE THE ONE TO PUT MONEY IN PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS?

>> IT'S BECOME THAT IN MANY WAYS, AND TO MATT'S POINT, I THINK THE LAST ELECTION IS STILL LOOMING OVER WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF THE NEW BUDGET THAT'S COMING TOGETHER AND ALL OF THE DIFFERENT POLICIES RELATED TO TAXES AND TAX RELIEF.

AND SO THE REPUBLICANS WERE OUT THERE EARLIER THIS YEAR CALLING FOR REALLY BIG REBATES TO GO OUT.

NOW, THERE IS SOME CONCERN AMONG ECONOMISTS THAT IF WE DID PUSH OUT A LOT OF REBATES RIGHT NOW, IT WOULD ACTUALLY PROLONG THE PERIOD OF INFLATION THAT WE'RE SEEING BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HAVING A PROBLEM RIGHT NOW REALLY WITH DEMAND IN THE ECONOMY.

IT'S MORE OF A SUPPLY PROBLEM.

AND SO THAT'S RISING -- PUSHING UP PRICES, AND I THINK THERE'S SOME CORPORATE PROFIT TAKING AS WELL.

BUT SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A CONCERN ABOUT PUSHING OUT A WHOLE LOT OF TAX RELIEF RIGHT AWAY, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, DEMOCRATS, I THINK, ARE SEEING WHERE THINGS ARE HEADED.

THE STATE HAS AN IMMENSE SURPLUS RIGHT NOW.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE UNDER A BILLION DOLLARS IN DIRECT PROPERTY TAX RELIEF, WHICH GOES TO HOMEOWNERS AND RENTERS.

NOW THEY'RE UP OVER $2 BILLION, A LEVEL WE HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE THE 2008 FISCAL YEAR, SO FOR SURE, THE PRESSURE THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN APPLYING THIS YEAR, BUT TO MATT'S POINT, REALLY THE PRESSURE THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED FROM LAST YEAR'S ELECTION RESULTS, WHERE THE REPUBLICANS PICKED UP SEATS IN BOTH HOUSES AND MURPHY HAD A WAY CLOSER RE-ELECTION CONTEST THAN HE EXPECTED.

>> SOPHIE, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT WHERE DEMOCRATS ARE REALLY PRIORITIZING THAT SPENDING OVERALL IN THE BUDGET THIS YEAR?

>> WELL, THE DEMOCRATIC PROPOSAL IS STILL KIND OF BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AS FAR AS I KNOW.

I KNOW THAT THERE IS, YOU KNOW -- I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE PROGRESSIVE PUSH THAT IS COMING FROM THESE ADVOCATES GROUP.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S GETTING TO DEMOCRATS.

BUT WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THE $10 BILLION SURPLUS USED TO HELP THESE VULNERABLE GROUPS AND PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT BEHIND DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND THEN YOU HAVE BUSINESS GROUPS ALSO SAYING, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT HELP WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT AND THE UNEMPLOYMENT TAX HIKE THAT'S COMING, SO WE DID SEE THE FIRST STEP GO THROUGH OR THE SECOND STEP GO THROUGH IN THE ASSEMBLY YESTERDAY, WHICH WAS A DEMOCRATICALLY SPONSORED BILL.

WHICH WOULD HELP 70% OF BUSINESSES KIND OF -- IT WOULD ALLEVIATE THE BURDEN OF THIS TAX HIKE FOR ABOUT 70% OF NEW JERSEY'S BUSINESSES.

>> MATT, THERE'S BEEN CONFLICT IN YEARS PAST BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR.

DO YOU ANTICIPATE ANY OF THAT THIS YEAR AS WE GET INTO THIS FINAL STAGE OF THE BUDGET PROCESS?

>> CONFLICT?

NO.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE MONEY THAN THEY CAN EVER DREAM OF AND IT'S JUST THE ARGUMENT WOULD BE, HOW DO WE SPEND IT?

BUT THE ISSUE LEADING UP TO THE END OF THE MONTH AND THE JUNE 30th DEADLINE TO PASS A BUDGET IS WHEN SOPHIE SAYS, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, SHE'S NOT WRONG, AND JOHN CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

I MEAN, IT'S JUNE 17th RIGHT NOW, AND THE LACK OF DETAIL THAT IS TRICKLING OUT MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TWO CHAMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO GET UP TO JUNE 30th BECAUSE THERE'S DISAGREEMENT ON HOW TO SPEND THIS MONEY AND THERE'S A LACK OF MOVEMENT ON EVEN STUFF THEY AGREE ON, BUT IN TERMS OF PAPERWORK, GOING FROM THE LEGISLATURE TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, FROM WHAT I'M HEARING, SO IT'S GOING TO BE A LATE BUDGET FROM EVERYTHING THAT I HEAR AS OF NOW JUST BECAUSE THE TWO CHAMBERS DON'T AGREE ON HOW TO SPEND IT.

SO, DIRECT CONFLICT, NO, BUT A BANK -- A BUNGLING OF IT?

PERHAPS, MAYBE, BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF PROGRESS OF WHERE WE ARE THIS LATE IN THE MONTH.

>> JOHN, THIS WEEK, SENATE REPUBLICANS, MIKE CALLED ON ELIZABETH -- TREASURER ELIZABETH TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE SENATE BUDGET COMMITTEE, SAYING THAT SHE BYPASSED LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT IN ALLOCATING $10 MILLION TO A FUND THAT WOULD GO TO HELP UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

HAPPENED THERE, AND WHAT THEY'RE CALLING FOR?

ARE THEY RIGHT HERE?

>> I THINK IT'S REALLY A DISAGREEMENT OVER HOW YOU'RE INTERPRETING LANGUAGE THAT WAS WRITTEN HASTILY INTO THE BUDGET LAST YEAR THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT MATT JUST DESCRIBED SO SOMETIMES THAT YIELDS THESE TYPES OF PREDICAMENTS WHERE THEY RUSH IN SOME LAST-MINUTE BUDGET LANGUAGE, NO ONE REALLY HAS TIME TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS, AND NOW THERE'S A DISAGREEMENT OVER, DOES IT SAY THE GOVERNOR CAN SPEND $10 MILLION OR $20 MILLION OR DOES HE HAVE TO GET APPROVAL FOR EACH CHUNK?

AND I THINK BOTH SIDES ARE READING THAT LANGUAGE CREDIBLY, AND THERE'S REALLY NO ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM.

I MEAN, I GUESS, UNLESS LAWMAKERS WOULD WANT TO TAKE THE ADMINISTRATION TO COURT RIGHT NOW TO SAY THAT THE $10 MILLION CHUNK THAT WAS FIRST APPROVED FOR THIS FUND AND THEN THE NEXT $10 MILLION HAD TO BE DONE ALL AT ONCE WITH OVERSIGHT APPROVAL OR COULD IT BE DONE IN TWO PIECES AS THEY DID DO IT?

I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY THE DISAGREEMENT, AND AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A $50 BILLION BUDGET, AND THEN THE SPENDING OF SOME $6 BILLION IN FEDERAL AID, SO I THINK IN MANY WAYS, I THINK REPUBLICANS DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT THIS MONEY IS GOING TO THE GROUP THAT IT'S GOING TO, AND SO THIS IS A WAY TO SORT OF CALL ATTENTION TO THAT AS WELL AS TO BRING ATTENTION TO THIS IDEA THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF OVERSIGHT IN TERMS OF HOW THIS FEDERAL MONEY THAT WE HAVEN'T REALLY TALKED ABOUT, A BIG CHUNK REMAINS, ABOUT $3 BILLION, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE TENSION POINTS THAT MATT WAS REFERRING TO.

DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE WANT TO PLAY A ROLE IN DETERMINING HOW THE REST OF THE STATES' FEDERAL COVID AID GETS SPENT DOWN.

THAT WASN'T INCLUDED IN THE DRAFT OF THE BUDGET THAT MURPHY ORIGINALLY SENT OVER TO LAWMAKERS.

THEY WANT TO PUT IT BACK IN THE BUDGET, AND MAYBE EVEN STRENGTHEN IT, KNOWING HOW LAST YEAR WE SAW A LOT OF SPENDING HAPPEN AROUND THANKSGIVING THAT REALLY WASN'T VERY TRANSPARENT IN HOW IT CAME FORWARD AND HOW IT WAS APPROVED.

TENSION POINTS, MAYBE BIGGER PICTURE THAN WHAT SENATOR TESTA HAS BROUGHT UP BUT ONE OF THE TENSION POINTS THAT HAS TO BE RESOLVED OVER THE NEXT TWO WEEKS OR SO.

>> YEAH, FOR SURE.

IT'S INTERESTING TIMES WHEN $10 MILLION FEELS LIKE CHUMP CHANGE, RIGHT?

SOPHIE, LET'S JUST SWITCH GEARS.

I WANT TO TALK JANUARY 6th.

WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN SO FAR THIS WEEK, LAST WEEK, THAT HAS HAD THE MOST IMPACT IN TERMS OF WHAT THIS HOUSE COMMITTEE HAS BEEN ABLE TO LAY OUT?

>> I THINK IN TERMS OF WHAT'S HAPPENED THIS WEEK, ONE OF THE BIGGER TAKEAWAYS HAS BEEN THIS TOUR ON JANUARY 5th, AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY BROUGHT UP BY REPRESENTATIVE MIKIE SHERRILL SO THIS LAST HEARING CONFIRMED WHAT SHE HAD SAID, THAT REPRESENTATIVE LOUDERMILK HAD GIVEN A TOUR AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE FILMING NANCY PELOSI'S OFFICE, AND SHE KIND OF GAVE THAT STATEMENT THAT QUESTIONED LOUDERMILK'S DEDICATION TO CONGRESS, WHETHER HE WAS UPHOLDING THE OATH OF OFFICE.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE LOUDER STATEMENTS THAT WE HEARD COME OUT OF NEW JERSEY, BUT I THINK THE LOUDEST ONE HAS BEEN BILL, WHO WE KNOW IS NOT ONE TO MINCE WORDS, I WOULD SAY.

HE'S CALLING FOR JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS TO RESIGN IN LIGHT OF EMAILS BETWEEN HIS WIFE AND TRUMP'S THEN CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT WITH GINNI THOMAS NOW BEING REQUESTED TO COME IN FRONT OF THE COMMITTEE OR POSSIBLY BE REQUESTED.

WE'RE SEEING HIM ASK THAT THOMAS RESIGN, CALLED HIM A CORRUPT JUDGE, SAID HE SHOULD HAVE THE DIGNITY TO RESIGN.

SO, I THINK THERE'S A LOT LEFT IN THESE HEARINGS, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY BEEN EYE-OPENING SO FAR.

>> FOR SURE.

MATT, HOW EFFECTIVE DO YOU THINK THIS PANEL HAS BEEN IN LAYING OUT -- IN, I GUESS, A LINEAR FASHION WHAT TRUMP KNEW, WHAT HIS TOP ADVISORS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HIS INNER CIRCLE, HIS CABINET WERE TELLING HIM, AND CONNECTING THAT TO JANUARY 6th?

>> WELL, GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A POLITICIAN HERE AND KIND OF NOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE I THINK THE MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS, IS IT GOING TO HAVE AN EFFECT WITH VOTERS IN THE UPCOMING MIDTERM ELECTIONS WHEN ALL SIGNS POINT TO DEMOCRATS REALLY JUST GETTING WIPED OUT?

YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER YEARS AGO TALKING ON THIS SHOW AFTER A MIDTERM ELECTION ABOUT A BLUE WAVE.

EVEN'S EXPECTING A RED WAVE.

AND I'M SURE, BEYOND WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE HOPING OR SOME PEOPLE ARE HOPING, THAT PEOPLE ARE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE JANUARY 6th INSURRECTION.

IT ALSO HAS A POLITICAL COMPONENT TO IT.

I'M SURE DEMOCRATS WANTED TO PLAY AS VOTERS ARE GOING TO THE POLLS IN THE MIDTERMS.

THE PROBLEM IS TRUMP ISN'T ON THE BALLOT SO IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAVE A LARGE EFFECT.

I WOULD JUST SAY REAL QUICKLY, MONTHS BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT DECISION ABOUT ROE V. WADE WAS LEAKED, YOU KNOW, I WAS HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH DEMOCRATIC OPERATIVES, AND I WAS SAYING, WHAT YOU SEE AS SOMETHING THAT WILL PREVENT YOU, IF ANYTHING, FROM JUST GETTING COMPLETELY WIPED OUT THIS MIDTERM?

AND THEY WERE SAYING, A POTENTIAL FOR ROE V. WADE GETTING OVERTURNED.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT MAY ENERGIZE FOLKS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT DEMOCRATIC OPERATIVES IN THE STATE ARE LOOKING AT MORE THAN THIS JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE, ALTHOUGH OBVIOUSLY, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

I MEAN, WE CAN'T FORGET THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE WERE NOT PEACEFUL PROTESTERS OR WHATEVER THE LINE IS ABOUT THESE FOLKS.

I MEAN, IT WAS A VIOLENT INSURRECTION ON THE CAPITOL, LIKE WE'VE NEVER SEEN.

>> IS THERE GOING TO BE A POINT WHERE, LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE NIXON INVESTIGATION, WHERE REPUBLICANS COME AROUND AND SAY, OKAY, WE NEED TO GET ON BOARD WITH THE IDEA THAT MAYBE SOMETHING WAS UNTOWARD HERE?

DOES ANYONE SEE THAT POINT COMING?

>> NO.

POLLING SHOWS IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

POLLING ON WHAT VIEWERSHIP THEN DURING THE WATERGATE HEARINGS WAS THROUGH THE ROOF.

VIEWERSHIP NOW IS LIKE DAY ONE OF THE HEARING, YOU COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, MODEST.

BUT POLLING SHOWS THAT IT'S NOT CHANGING ANYBODY'S MIND.

WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY WHERE WE'RE IN TRIBES AND IT'S -- EVERYBODY'S, FOR THE MOST PART, 95% OF PEOPLE, I WOULD SAY, ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY FEEL.

IT'S WHAT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE OF THE PAST COUPLE YEARS OR MAYBE MORE THAN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS AT THIS POINT.

>> LIGHTNING ROUND.

SOPHIE, GO TO YOU, JACK CIATTARELLI LOOKS LIKE HE'S GEARING UP TO RUN AGAIN.

DO REPUBLICANS BACK HIM?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

YES?

MAYBE.

WE'LL SEE.

A LOT CAN CHANGE BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.

BUT I DON'T SEE WHY NOT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I WISH WE HAD MORE TIME TO GET AROUND TO ALL OF YOU, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

THAT'S GOING TO DO IT FOR US FOR "ROUNDTABLE" THIS WEEK.

MATT, SOPHIE, JOHN, HUGE THANK YOU ALSO TO STEVE OROHO.

BEFORE WE GO, FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @JOANNAGAGIS AND SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO GET EXCLUSIVE CONTENT, INCLUDING LIVE STREAMS FROM AROUND THE STATE.

I'M JOANNA GAGIS.

ON BEHALF OF DAVID CRUZ AND OUR ENTIRE CREW, THANKS FOR BEING WITH US TODAY AND HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

RWJBARNABAS HEALTH.

LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY "NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE," THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.