>>> NOW, WHETHER IT WAS RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE OR NOW THE WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS, PEOPLE ACROSS THE GLOBE ARE VOICING THEIR OPINIONS ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WITH THAT COMES TRIBALISM, DEEPER POLARIZATION, AND OFTEN DEHUMANIZING NARRATIVES.

BUT AUTHOR BEN SHEEHAN CALLED FOR GREATER COMPASSION AND NUANCE IN RESPONSE, AND HE NOW JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE DANGERS OF PROPAGANDA ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

BEN SHEEHAN, THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> I THINK SOME PEOPLE KNOW YOUR WORK BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN IN COMEDY FOR A LONG TIME, I MEAN, YOU WERE THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AT THE COMEDY WEBSITE FUNNY OR DIE, AND THEN YOU PIVOTED TO CIVICS EDUCATION, SO, I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, CONSTITUENCIES.

THE REASON WE CALLED YOU IS THAT YOU POSTED SOMETHING ON INSTAGRAM THAT JUST KIND OF WENT EVERYWHERE.

AND IT JUST SEEMED TO DIFFERENT FROM THE TONE OF SO MUCH OF WHAT WE WERE SEEING ON SOCIAL MEDIA AT THE TIME.

I THINK IT REALLY CAUGHT PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.

WHAT YOU SAID WAS, IF YOU HAVE LESS EMPATHY TOWARDS VICTIMS BECAUSE OF HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THEIR GOVERNMENT, PROPAGANDA IS WORKING ON YOU.

THAT WAS THE FIRST SLIDE OUT OF FIVE.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE OTHERS.

WHAT INSPIRED YOU?

>> YOU KNOW, I HAD BEEN WORKING THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS ON A PROJECT AROUND PROPAGANDA, ACTUALLY, THE HISTORY OF PROPAGANDA, SPECIFICALLY ANTI-SEMITIC PROPAGANDA, AND SEEING THE POSTS THAT WERE HAPPENING ON INSTAGRAM AND OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, I WAS SEEING ECHOES OF THAT.

PROPAGANDA WAS ALREADY TOP OF MIND.

MY TAKE ABAY FROM ALL THE RESEARCH THAT I WAS DOING, THE MAIN GOAL OF PROPAGANDA IS TO DEHUMANIZE NOT JUST THE RECIPIENT, BUT ALSO PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE RECIPIENT, IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY SUPPORT FOR HONESTLY ATROCIOUS ACTIONS.

SO, I STARTED TO SEE POSTS THAT WERE DISRESPECTFUL TOWARDS ISRAELIS, DISRESPECTFUL TOWARDS PALESTINIANS, AND I WANTED TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THIS IS ABOUT EVERYONE'S HUMANITY.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT LOOKING AT SOMEBODY AS THOUGH THEY ARE LESS THAN YOU AND WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND SO THAT WE CAN IN INKNOCK INKNOCK EWE LATE OURSELVES FROM PROPAGANDA.

>> YOUR POST WAS SEEN BY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, WHICH IS JUST HARD EVEN TO WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND.

I MEAN, IT WAS SHARED BY CELEBRITIES, THE ISRAELI ACTRESS GAL GADOT, COMEDIAN SARA SILVERMAN, THE FIRST SLIDE, I'M JUST GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN, OKAY, IT SAID, IF YOU HAVE LESS EMPATHY TOWARDS VICTIMS BECAUSE OF HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THEIR GOVERNMENT, PROPAGANDA IS WORKING ON YOU.

THAT WAS THE FIRST SLIDE.

THE SECOND, THE GOAL OF PROPAGANDA IS TO DEHUMANIZE.

IT WORKS TO DEHUMANIZE ISRAELIS AND IT WORKS TO DEHUMANIZE GAZANS.

SLIDE THREE.

PROPAGANDA IS EVERYWHERE.

IT SEEKS TO BLOCK OUR EMPATHY RECEPTORS SO WHEN WE SEE VIOLENCE, WE RATIONALIZE AWAY OUR HUMAN RESPONSE.

SLIDE FOUR, I LIKE TO THINK MOST OF US ARE ABOVE PROPAGANDA, BUT THIS WEEKEND REMINDED ME HOW WIDESPREAD IT IS, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE REACTED TO THIS VIOLENCE WITH JUSTIFICATION, NOT EMPATHY.

I GUESS IT'S NOT SURPRISING, BUT IT'S STILL HEARTBREAKING.

SLIDE FIVE, KILLING INNOCENT PALESTINIANS IS HORRIFIC.

KILLING INNOCENT ISRAELIS IS HORRIFIC.

IF YOU DON'T FEEL THE SAME, I THINK YOU SHOULD ASK YOURSELF WHY THAT IS.

I MEAN, IT JUST -- HONESTLY, IT'S JUST SO US SINGT.

AND IT'S NOT POETRY, BUT IT ALMOST JUST CUTS YOU.

AND I WAS JUST KIND OF WONDERING HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO DISTILL SOMETHING INTO SO FEW WORDS.

>> WELL, NOT TO MINIMIZE WHAT I WROTE, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN, WHERE I WAS IN A TAXI RIDE TO THE AIRPORT AND I JUST WROTE IT DOWN IN FIVE MINUTES.

I JUST SORT OF TRIED TO DISTILL MY IMMEDIATE REACTION.

AND AGAIN, IF IT WASN'T THE FACT THAT I HAD BEEN WORKING ON THIS RESEARCH PROJECT, WHICH IS HONESTLY LOOKING AT DOG WHISTLES, ANTI-SEMITIC DOG WHISTLES AND HOW THOSE OVER TIME, THE REPETITION OF THOSE AND THE VARIETY OF THOSE, CAN SLOWLY CAUSE PEOPLE TO THINK A CERTAIN WAY.

SO, IT REALLY IS SORT OF A FACE SET DRIPPING RATHER THAN A FIRE HOSE.

I SAW POSTS LIKE THIS IN 2021, WHEN THERE WAS THE LAST SORT OF MAJOR CONFLICT IN THE REGION, AND EVEN GOING BACK TO 2014.

AND SO, REALLY, NOT REALLY BEING AWARE OF JUST SINGLE POST, BUT ALSO, HOW THE TOTALITY AND THE SUM OF MOSTS OVER TIME, BIT BY BIT, CAN SORT OF CHIP AWAY AT OUR SHARED HUMANITY.

>> YOU ALSO WROTE AN ESSAY IN "THE DAILY BEAST" ALSO ABOUT THE INSTAGRAM POST, BUT THAT ALSO KIND OF REACTING TO THE REACTION TO IT, AND SORT OF EXPANDING MORE ON YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS.

THE -- HOW DO YOU SEE THIS PLAYING OUT, IF YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO SORT OF THE ESSAY, HOW HAVE YOU SEEN THIS PLAYING OUT?

AND HAVE YOU SEEN IT PLAYING OUT IN ANY WAYS THAT SURPRISED YOU?

>> SURE, SO, YOU KNOW, I TALK ABOUT IN THE ESSAY SORT OF THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROPAGANDA.

THERE'S DISTORTION, RIGHT?

THERE'S TAKING SOMETHING THAT IS A VIDEO OF AN EVENT FROM A YEAR AGO, FIVE YEARS AGO, SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, AND PURPORTING AS IF IT HAPPENED TODAY OR THE DAY BEFORE.

WE CAN TAKE VIDEOS OUT OF CONTEXT AND CHANGE THE CAPTION AND SUDDENLY PEOPLE WILL LATCH ONTO IT AS IF IT'S REAL AND GOSPEL AND START SHARING IT, AND THAT CAN HAVE LEGITIMATELY DAMAGING CONSEQUENCES.

AND THAT IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO ONE SIDE OF THIS CONFLICT.

THE OTHER THING IS, YOU KNOW, I TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT IN MY OWN WORK AROUND CIVICS, BUT IT APPLIES TO HISTORY, AS WELL.

WE AMERICANS ARE NOT WELL EDUCATED, ANY OF US, REALLY, THE VAST MAJORITY OF US IN THE HISTORY OF THIS REGION.

AND SO, THERE ARE BAD ACTORS SOMETIMES THAT WILL TAKE FRAMING DEVICES THAT ARE OVERLY SIMPLIFIED, THAT CONDENSE THINGS DOWN INTO REALLY EASILY UNDERSTANDABLE FRAMEWORK.

AND THAT'S APPEALS, BECAUSE IT'S REALLYSELF-EDUCATE.

AND THE THIRD THING, THAT'S A SORT OF FALSE COMPARISON, I LIKE TO CALL.

AND THE LAST THING IS OMISSION.

THIS IS WHERE I TALK ABOUT MY OWN BLIND SPOTS, AND IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO REALIZE THE BLIND SPOTS THAT I HAD AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS STUDIED THIS REGION, BUT DEFINITE YOU WILL WAS GIVEN A SLANTED VERSION OF IT GROWING UP IN MY OWN RELIGIOUS EDUCATION, MY JEWISH EDUCATION, MY SCHOOL EDUCATION, UNIVERSITY.

AND SO, REALLY LOOKING INWARD AT MYSELF, ALWAYS CHALLENGING MYSELF TO KEEP READING RELIABLE, LEGITIMATE, FACTUAL SOURCES.

BUT THE TRUTH IS, WE ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO FILL OUR KNOWLEDGE GAPS, AND THAT WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE GAPS.

SO, BEING AWARE OF WHAT OUR OWN SHORTCOMINGS IS IS SOMETHING THAT, MYSELF INCLUDED, A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO AND HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP TRYING TO CORRECT.

>> HAD YOU COME TO THAT INSIGHT FOR YOURSELF, THAT YOU HAD KNOWLEDGE GAPS, EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE JEWISH BY HERITAGE, HAVE CERTAINLY CONNECTIONS TO THE STORY, AS WELL AS THE RELIGIOUS IMPORTANCE TO SO MANY PEOPLE IN YOUR FAMILY.

SO, HOW DID YOU SEE THAT IN YOURSELF, THOSE KNOWLEDGE GAPS?

>> TALKING TO PALESTINIAN FRIENDS IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS THAN MINE AND HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM, AND THEY WERE KIND ENOUGH TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, THE TIME TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, WHICH, I'M SURE, YOU KNOW, ARE PAINFUL.

I DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT ANYBODY ELSE'S RESPONSIBILITY TO EDUCATE ME, BUT IT'S GOOD TO HAVE WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE THAT TIME, BUT IT REALLY WAS A CONVERSATION THAT I HAD IN 2019.

I WENT ON A TRIP TO -- TO ISRAEL AND PALESTINE, SO, WE SPENT MOST OF THE TIME IN ISRAEL, BUT WE DID SPEND SOME SOMETIME IN RAMALLAH, AND IT WAS -- >> ON THE WEST BANK.

>> IN THE WEST BANK, YES, AND IT WAS A CONVERSATION THAT I HAD WITH A YOUNG PALESTINIAN DJ ABOUT MY AGE AND TALKING WITH HIM ABOUT HIS OWN EXPERIENCE AND HIS FAMILY'S EXPERIENCE, AND GOING BACK, YOU KNOW, TO THE FOUNDING OF ISRAEL AND ALSO BEFORE.

AND IT CAUSED ME TO QUESTION MY OWN BACKGROUND, TO DO MORE RESEARCH, BUT TO FIND, YOU KNOW, LITTLE GAPS IN MY KNOWLEDGE AND THINGS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN OMITTED.

AND THE THING THAT'S HARD WITH OMISSION IS THAT YOU CAN PRESENT SOMETHING THAT IS ENTIRELY 100% FACTUAL, BUT SIMPLY LEAVES OUT INFORMATION.

SO, YOU'RE NOT DISTORTING THE INFORMATION, YOU'RE JUST NOT GIVING THE ENTIRE PICTURE.

AND IT'S VERY HARD WHEN THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE DON'T KNOW THAT WE DON'T KNOW.

AND SO, IT REALLY IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT BACK GROUNDS, TO GO TO THESE PLACES IF YOU ARE FORTUNATE AND LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AS I WAS, TO GO ON A SPONSORED TRIP TO THE REGION, BUT THE OTHER THING I SORT OF TALK ABOUT IN THE ESSAY IS THAT SOCIAL MEDIA WORKS TO PUT US IN SILOS, RIGHT?

THE ALGORITHMS GAME IT SO WE ARE CONSTANTLY BEING FED THINGS THAT WE TEND TO ALREADY AGREE WITH.

AND SO, WE'RE NOT JUST BREAKING OUT OF KNOWLEDGE GAPS IN OUR OWN LIVES.

WE'RE ALSO BREAKING OUT OF THESE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, SILOS THAT WE PUT INTO JUST BY THE NATURE OF USING SOCIAL MEDIA.

SO, HOPEFULLY PEOPLE CAN BE MORE AWARE OF THAT, FOLLOW CREATORS THAT MAY BE DIFFERENT, HAVE DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, TALK TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, IF YOU ARE ABLE TO GO TO PLACES.

BUT THIS IS A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY, BUT AS I MENTION IN THE ESSAY, IT'S HONESTLY THE LEAST WE CAN DO.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT FALSE COMPARISON.

YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING ANALYSIS OF, IN YOUR DAILY BEAST ESSAY, OF PEOPLE WHO COMPARE THE RELATIONSHIP THAT BLACK AMERICANS HAVE, MANY BLACK AMERICANS HAVE WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THE ONE THAT PALESTINIANS HAVE WITH THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCE.

CAN YOU JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, OF COURSE.

SO, YOU KNOW, AND I RESPECT THE APPROACH OF MANY JOURNALISTS TO TRY TO FIND WAYS TO CREATE ANALOGIES WHERE THEIR AUDIENCE CAN UNDERSTAND A SITUATION.

THE PROBLEM IS, IS WHEN YOU STOP AT THE ANALOGY.

SO, LIKE I MENTION, YOU KNOW, IN A VACUUM, THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES, THE GOVERNMENT DEFENSE FORCES AND PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS IS ANALOGOUS TO A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE POLICE FORCE AND POLICE OFFICERS IN THE UNITED STATES, WHICH ARE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, AND AFRICAN AMERICAN CIVILIANS.

BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, WE HAVE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, WE HAVE DIFFERENT RELIGIONS, WE HAVE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, WE HAVE DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIPS AND DYNAMICS.

THERE'S SO MUCH HISTORY OUTSIDE OF THAT.

SO, I THINK THE RISK IS, IN AN EFFORT TO CREATE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S GOING ON, WE TEND TO LEAVE OUT ALL THE CONTEXT OF WHAT MAKES IT A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

AND THAT INVOLVED A LOT OF -- AGAIN A LOT OF RESEARCH, BECAUSE WE DON'T TEACH THIS STUFF ENOUGH IN OUR SCHOOLS.

WE DON'T TEACH HISTORY ENOUGH.

WE DON'T TEACH CIVICS ENOUGH.

AND WE DON'T TEACH MEDIA LITERACY ENOUGH.

THERE HAS BECOME AN IMPORTANT FOCUS FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO BE GOOD, RESPONSIBLE NEWS CONSUMERS ON THE INTERNET, AND ON SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, WHEN YOU ARE BEING INUNDATED WITH BOTH ACCURATE SOURCES AND AS, I WOULD SAY, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, INACCURATE SOURCES.

>> WHAT'S THE THROUGH LINE OF YOUR CAREER?

DO YOU SEE ONE?

I MEAN, SO, COMEDY, TO CIVICS EDUCATION, TO -- I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, ARE THEY RELATED?

>> EITHER I GET BORED EASILY, OR THERE IS A THROUGH LINE THAT EXISTS.

I OFTEN THINK ABOUT AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED WHEN I WAS 5 YEARS OLD.

MY PARENTS WORKED IN THE GOVERNMENT, OR WITH THE MOM TOOK A NAPKIN AND SHE DREW A HOUSE.

ON ONE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, SHE WROTE THE NUMBER 435.

ON THE OTHER SIDE, SHE WROTE THE NUMBER 100.

THAT WAS MY FIRST LESSON ABOUT CONGRESS.

IT WAS LITERALLY BACK OF THE NAPKIN.

AND, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL DECADES LATER, I'M TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO TAKE THAT NAPKIN, TAKE THAT PEN, AND SIMPLIFY THINGS FOR OTHER PEOPLE SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE MORE OF AN UNDERSTANDING OF IT AND REALLY JUST HAVE IT BE AN ENTRY POINT FOR A LIFETIME OF LEARNING AND SELF-EDUCATING.

>> HOW DOES THAT LOOP INTO YOUR CONCERNS, FEARS, ABOUT PROPAGANDA, ESPECIALLY IN THE SOCIAL MEDIA AGE?

I MEAN, IS PART OF YOUR FEAR THAT THE REASON -- PART OF THE REASON WHY WE ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO PROPAGANDA, IS BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW THE GOVERNMENT WORKS OR IS SUPPOSED TO WORK?

WHAT'S THE THROUGH LINE THERE?

>> I THINK IT'S EVEN DEEPER.

IN A DEMOCRACY, A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY, A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY, WHERE PEOPLE UMENT MATLY CHOOSE THEIR LEADERS, IF WE DON'T HAVE A COMMON FOUNDATION OF JUST SIMPLE FACTS ON WHICH TO AGREE, THEN WE'RE GOING TO START TO FIGHT EACH OTHER.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A WELL-EDUCATED DECISION ON WHO LEADERS SHOULD BE, AND THEN WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING TO POW WHOLE ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE'S WISHES, AND I THINK THAT IS VERY MUCH THE CASE IN BOTH ISRAEL AND WITH PALESTINE.

YOU HAVE GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE LED BY PEOPLE THAT DON'T REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF THE VOTERS, AS WE'VE SEEN, BY THE WAY, IN ISRAEL IN THE LAST YEAR, WE HAD PEOPLE, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS TAKING TO THE STREETS THE PROTEST NETANYAHU'S ATTEMPT TO WEAKEN THE SUPREME COURT, A WHOLE BRAWN CH OF THE GOVERNMENT.

SO, WE'RE SEEING THE RESULTS OF SOMETHING, WHEN WE HAVE EXTREMIST LEADERS THAT DON'T REPRESENT WHO I BELIEVE TO BE THE MAJORITY OR THE MAJORITY SENTIMENT OF CIVILIANS, AND I'M SEEING THE BEGINNING STAGES OF THAT IN THIS COUNTRY, WITH THINGS LIKE -- WITH GERRYMANDERING, OTHER WAYS TO TILT THE PLAYING FIELD.

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO BE AWARE OF THAT.

THROUGH ALL THE WORK THAT I DO, IF IT'S POLITICAL, HISTORICAL, THE COMEDIC, I'M ALWAYS COMING BACK TO THAT SAME POINT.

WE NEED TO HAVE A SHARED UNDERSTANDING OF FACTS AND REALITY TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS FOR WHO OUR LEADERS SHOULD BE.

>> AREN'T WE ALREADY THERE?

WE ALREADY DON'T HAVE A SHARED VERSION OF REALITY.

YOU HAVE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO DO NOT ACCEPT, AT LEAST THEY SAY THEY DO NOT ACCEPT THAT THE JANUARY 6th MOB ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL WAS AN EFFORT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE ELECTED LEADERS, ELECTED OFFICIALS SAYING THAT THESE WERE JUST TOURISTS TAKING A TOUR.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND THEY WERE THERE.

AND THEY WERE THERE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, I KIND OF -- AREN'T WE ALREADY THERE IN A WAY, OR IS THAT ONE OF THOSE FALSE COMPARISONS THAT YOU'RE WARNING US ABOUT?

>> NO, I THINK WE DEFINITELY ARE THERE WHEN IT COMES TO -- WHEN IT COMES TO CERTAIN THINGS LIKE WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th.

I WANT TO NOTE THE ROLE THAT, YOU KNOW, GERRYMANDERING PLAYS IN SELECTING OUR MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF DISTRICTS ARE DRAWN IN A WAY SO THAT ONLY A MINORITY IN THE HOUSE ARE COMPETITIVE.

IT'S THINGS LIKE THAT MANIPULATING WHO ENDS UP IN CONGRESS, AND I DON'T THINK, BECAUSE OF THAT, THEY ARE ACCURATELY REPRESENTATIVE OF PUBLIC OPINION.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO RETAIN EMPATHY AT A TIME LIKE THIS, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU AND I ARE SITTING HERE IN OUR RESPECTIVE PLACES, AND WE ARE CLEAN, SAFE, WARM, AND DRY, AND I'M THINKING ABOUT THESE PEOPLE WHO WATCH THEIR RELATIVES GET GUNNED DOWN IN THEIR KITCHENS.

WHO WATCHED THEIR LOVED ONES GET SHOVED IN THE BACK OF A CAR BY THEIR HAIR AND DRAGGED TO GAZA, TO BE HELD AS HOSTAGES, RIGHT?

NOT KNOWING WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THEM.

AND I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE WATCHED THEIR LOVED ONES OR OTHER PEOPLE THEY CARE ABOUT, DIGGING THEIR KIDS OUT OF RUBBLE WITH THEIR BARE HANDS.

WHAT DO YOU DO WITH ALL THAT?

DOES THAT -- IS THAT YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THE NEED TO RETAIN EMPATHY, IS THAT FOR ALL OF US, OR FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE THE LUXURY OF BEING DISPASSIONATE AT THIS MOMENT, IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THAT -- I HAVE FRIENDS OF MINE WHOSE FAMILY MEMBERS WERE ABDUCTED BY HAMAS, FROM THEIR KIBBUTZ AND BROUGHT TO GAZA AND MY FRIENDS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THEM.

I HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE PALESTINIAN WHOSE RELATIVES HAVE EXPERIENCED UNIMAGINABLE THINGS HAPPENING TO THEM AND THEIR HOMES OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DRIVEN FROM THEIR HOMES AND CAN NEVER GO BACK.

AND I THINK THERE'S A TENDENCY, AND I'M NOT HERE TO LAY BLAME ON THE NEWS MEDIA EXCLUSIVELY OR MOSTLY OR ANYTHING, BUT I THINK THERE'S A TENDENCY TO REPORT THINGS IN STATISTICS THAT KIND OF ARE HARD TO GRASP OUR HEADS AROUND.

IF WE HEAR STATS OF -- 50 PEOPLE ARE KILLED, 200 PEOPLE ARE KILLED, THE NUMBERS ARE HORRIBLE, BUT WE DON'T RELATE TO IT AS MUCH AS AN IMAGE OF A CHILD WHO SURVIVED A BOMBING AND IS SHELL SHOCKED AND DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO RESPOND.

WE DON'T RESPOND TO IT AS MUCH AS A SINGLE CASE STUDY OF A CHILD AND THAT CHILD BEING IN GAZA.

WE DON'T RESPOND TO IT AS MUCH AS SEEING A VIDEO OF A CHILD WHO LIVED ON A KIBBUTZ FINDING OUT NONE OF HIS FAMILY MEMBERS SURVIVED.

THERE IS A HUMANITY AWOKEN IN US BY SEEING A SINGLE CASE STUDY OF A PERSON, AND I THINK GREAT LITERATURE DOES, AND I THINK GREAT NEWS MEDIA DOES THAT, BECAUSE IT ALLOWS US TO SEE OURSELVES IN THAT PERSON.

MAYBE NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH, BUT RECOGNIZE THE HUMANITY AND FEEL EMPATHY.

>> BEN SHEEHAN, THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.