(upbeat music) Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato here.

Let me introduce this segment.

I did it together with my colleague, Mary Gamba, who works with me on our other series, "Lessons in Leadership."

We talked to Michael Clinton, the author of this book, "Roar."

"Roar Into the Second Half "of Your Life Before It's Too Late," is the full title.

Fascinating interview.

It's about people who refire later on in their career.

They don't retire, or they retire by still engaging in other activities.

Michael Clinton has had an extraordinary career in publishing, communications, marketing, and leadership.

He is a terrific leader, but what he has to say is so important, so valuable that we wanted to share it with our larger audience.

Because some of you may be wondering about the second or next chapter in your career.

And regardless of how old you are, there's still something to contribute; '60s, '70s, '80s, and beyond.

Let's take a look at Michael Clinton.

- We are honored to be joined by Michael Clinton, who's the author of "ROAR into the Second Half of Your Life."

Good to see you, Michael, how you doin'?

- Steve, great to be with you.

Thanks for having me.

- Great to have you.

Mary Gamba, my longtime colleague of 23 years, the President of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

She works with us on the leadership development end as well.

Mary and I have been debating this whole second half of your life thing forever.

We actually interviewed, was it Warren Bennis, Mary, we interviewed, his book "Refire Don't Retire."

I think it was Bennis.

I agree with you, Michael, that we need to roar into the second half, just don't peter out.

You say?

- Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know if, first of all, if you're 60 and you're healthy, you're gonna have a good shot of living to be 90 or older.

And this is the new longevity that it's called, and the new longevity means that when you get to midlife, 50, 60, you got a whole other chapter ahead of you that was very different than your parents and your grandparents before, because life expectancies are growing.

I'm on the board of the Stanford University Center on Longevity.

They put out a paper called "The New Map of Life, the 100 Year Life is here."

So this is, there's a possibility for a second career, a different lifestyle, a new relationship, all the above, so wind up, don't wind down.

I call it rewire, Steve.

Bennis calls it refire, I call it rewire.

- You know what I screwed up.

Mary, I think it was Ken Blanchard, check.

It was Ken Blanchard, not Warren Bennis.

They actually wrote a book together, and I got that screwed up.

Edit out that mistake, 'cause I never wanna look bad on the air (Mary laughs).

- We corrected it now, that counts as an edit, Steve.

- Mary, jump in here, because again, I have said to you since I got to a certain point in my career, I've been more engaged, more ready to do different things, write this new book coming out, "Lessons in Leadership, the Tough Stuff," later this year.

Mary's like, "Why do you have to do more stuff?"

And I said, "Mary, I'm still pumped up."

Mary's looking to what?

- Well, and this is the thing, Michael, I am so excited to be, number one, I've read your book, and I'm so excited because it's helped me to solidify.

I've said to Steve for the longest time, I said literally like the 25 year mark, Steve, and I mean nobody works at one company for 25 years anymore, right, so like, I need like a watch, or Steve, you can get me a watch, a nice pair of earrings or something.

- I thought you wanted more money, but that's all right.

- Yeah, more money's good too.

And but I said to Steve, I said, "I wanna pivot at that about 25 year mark, right, "I wanna try something different."

Steve is so satisfied and so fulfilled here that he wants to continue on that path.

So talk a little bit, I know ROAR is an acronym, and I would love for you to share what that acronym is because I think that helps to set the context for the next part of our discussion.

- Before you answer, Michael, I realize I disagree with Mary's premise of the question.

I don't wanna do the same thing.

Things are not the same.

We're not doin' the same thing.

So, I.

- Oh, I mean here, I mean here.

Like I, exactly, that's all I mean.

You wanna pivot here, I wanna, and to give Michael background, I wanna open up a animal rescue, a dog rescue.

So that's completely different than here, so that's the difference.

- Understood, fair, go ahead, Michael.

- I think what's happening is people are taking both paths.

People are working much longer.

The data that's out is that people are working well into their 60s and 70s, part of it because they want to and they're engaged.

The other part of it is 'cause they need to from an economic standpoint.

If they're gonna live a long life, they're gonna have to really have a sustainable economic background.

But the people that I interviewed for the book, 40 of 'em all did a pivot outside into a brand new world, just like Mary discussed.

And the ROAR acronym, R stands for the re-imagination process and how you integrate re-imagining into your life.

The O is own your stuff right now.

You gotta take a full audit, own your health, own your finances, own your age, own the possibilities, The A's the action plan, and there's a lotta great tools and resources in the book.

And the R is reassess your relationships, because the people around you, family, friends, spouse, kids, employers, partners, whatever you call them, they're the ones that are gonna really give you the lift to be able to do whatever you wanna do next.

And use that imagination to say, "Wow, I can do a whole new thing.

"I can open an animal rescue shelter, if I wanna do that, "and I can do that for 20 years, "or I can do it for the rest of my life "or do it for 10 years."

I think we're in this time now where people are saying, "I can have multiple careers," and they each may last 20 years, and that's okay.

- Interesting.

Mike, I wanna follow up on this, and I wanna thank our good friend Nick Matarazzo, who you've known a long time.

Your background, tell everyone.

Nick is one of the top executives at Hearst.

He's on a previous edition of "Lessons in Leadership."

Your connection to Hearst, make that clear for everyone, Michael.

- Yeah, no, thank you, thanks, Steve.

I was the longtime President and Publishing Director of Hearst Magazines.

We have 25 magazines.

Some of you hopefully know "Car and Driver," where Nick's involved, "Esquire," "Elle," the "Oprah" Magazine, "House Beautiful," on and on, and I was in the magazine publishing business for almost 40 years.

I was the Publisher of "GQ."

I was the Executive EP at "Conde Nast," President at Hearst, so it's in my blood.

It's in my blood, and so.

And I'm still working with our CEO, but now I'm doing this business around the book "ROAR."

- I'm curious about something, Michael, to what degree is technology?

And look, three years ago, in March of 2020, we pivoted, along with the rest of the world, and we have not been in the studio.

We've done some on location shoots.

We have not been in the studio per se.

I don't like to share too much, but I am wearing gym shorts and Crocs.

Do I have have Crocs, April?

(Mary laughs) - Stop sharing there, Steve.

- We have Uggs.

They're really comfortable.

So, why is that relevant?

Because I have said, and I actually wrote this in a chapter of this new book, "Lessons in Leadership: The Tough Stuff," that technology has made it easier for those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to do it this way.

Does that mean that there are more possibilities for what we could do moving forward A, and B, Michael, that we work longer because it's not the same.

Again, people, everyone's got a different situation, but please, Michael.

- Yeah well, first of all, I can't wait to read your book, and so, but the second piece is, the beauty of this is that we have a lot of ageism built into the business world, and so companies are gonna have to rewire because they like to start moving people out in their 60s.

The problem, as you know, is there's not enough people in the subsequent generation to fill a lot of the jobs.

And so, people not only wanna work longer, but what's great is, if you have great cognitive, leadership, experience, wisdom, knowledge, you can do it via Zoom and technology, and not really, you don't have to be commuting as much.

You don't have to be driving as much.

You don't have to have, doing business travel as much, and so I think this is really sort of a renaissance period for people who do wanna work longer and work well into their 70s.

I mean, you see Bob Iger just went back to running Disney at 71.

I loved Anthony Fauci's comment, he's stepping out of government after 81, 82.

- He's going onto 82, I think.

- Right, and he's saying, "Well, I'm not retiring, "I'm just gettin' ready for my next gig."

And I think a lotta people, especially the Boomers, are saying, "Man, I got a lot of energy.

"I'm healthy, I'm engaged.

"Playing golf for 30 years is not sustainable.

"I wanna be involved in other things."

Nick may wanna play golf for 30 years, but most people still wanna do other things.

And I think this generation, the Boomers, are gonna change the whole script, and they're gonna scramble it up, and that's what's happening already.

- It's all yours, Mary.

- Yeah, I would love.

Steve and I have been looking and researching.

We just finished a chapter on wellness.

Michael, can you talk a little bit about the connection between this paradigm shift in our lives and wellness?

Where does that come in at that pivotal time?

- So I think I'll go back to those famous Boomers, they were really the ones that brought fitness, wellness, integrated into the everyday lifestyle, and if you think about it, it really permeated the culture.

So you've got all of these people, who are 50, 60, 70, 80.

I have a friend Alan Patricof, who's 88, who just finished the New York Marathon.

They've integrated it into their lives, so it's become a part of who they are.

And I think that that, in combination with medical breakthroughs and in combination with healthier living and all of the things that we all know, is creating a culture of wellness, which is gonna add to longevity.

And I think we're bringing that down to our kids and our grandkids, so that they see that wellness is a part of how they have to live their life.

And it's not just health wellness, but it's also gonna be financial wellness, because a lot of young people, there are no more pensions.

Some companies don't have 401ks.

Social Security is, who knows what's gonna happen, so wellness has a broad definition of just not physical, but also spiritual, mental, and financial.

- One more quick question, Michael, you did not write about this in the book, but your experience with this is relevant.

I have argued, and again, I don't wanna keep talking about the book coming out, but there's a chapter in the book about how our meetings, even remotely, are killing us.

Too many meetings, too long, too long on the day, too many meetings I don't belong in, too many meetings that are not engaging, interactive, and interesting, and it's affecting our wellness.

Meaning, you're sitting here.

- Yeah.

- 10 hours a day, lookin'.

Am I making too much of the meeting culture literally killing us?

- You know, I think there, what I'm seeing in our business and just around, I live in New York City, is there's a hunger for people to be together again, physically together.

And I think what's happening is, I'm already seeing our people saying, "We were gonna have a Zoom, but someone said, "'Well, let's have a physical meeting instead.'"

And I think we're also.

I think that's gonna create a recalibration, because when you think about Zoom meetings back to back to back to back to back, that is numbing, so part of it's scheduling, but part of it is, we've got to be more together to be able to have the kinds of things that create magic when people get together, whether it's for personal or for work.

So I think you're starting to see it shift because of back to work policies changing and and so forth.

- That's Michael Clinton.

He has written a compelling book called "ROAR into the Second Half of Your Life," in parentheses in red, Mary, "Before it's too Late."

(Michael laughs) Michael, I cannot thank you enough for joining us, and we'll be sharing this with our audience on the public broadcasting side as well.

Michael Clinton, who has had a great career so far, and I can't wait to check out what he does after this.

All the best, Michael.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

The Russell Berrie Foundation.

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PSC.

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New Jersey Sharing Network.

Seton Hall University.

PSEG Foundation.

And by NJM Insurance Group.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by New Jersey Globe.

- At the Turrell Fund, We know childcare creates transformative early learning experiences for young children, and helps families succeed.

Childcare is essential for the economy, driving financial growth and sustainability across all sectors.

The Turrell Fund envisions a New Jersey in which every infant and toddler has access to high quality, affordable childcare In order to grow, develop and thrive.

Our children are our future.

For more information, visit TurrellFund.org.