From WXXI news.

This is connections I'm Rachel Steven.

Rochester is getting ready for the pride Parade and picnic this coming Saturday.

The celebration will take place in a year when they have then a record number of bills proposed to limit transgender rights.

This hour, we're talking about what it's like to be transgender here in Rochester and across the country.

We'll explore what it means to live openly and authentically as a trans person today.

In a moment where visibility is growing, but so is political scrutiny.

From health care to housing, from schools to sports, transgender people are at the center of national debates and often under threat.

We'll talk about the real day to day experiences of trans people in our community the challenges, the joys, the relationships, the milestones, and how national narratives impact their lives on a local level.

Today, I'm joined in studio by Jovana Davis.

DeVaughn is the founder and president of Wave Women, Inc..

I also have with me Britton Harpers, correct?

Haji's, right?

Yep.

Brendan Rodgers is the president of the Next Generation Men of Transition and is advocacy director for New Pride Agenda.

And I have Raquel Valorant here with me is the founder of the Support Alliance for Fairness and Equality for Transgender Youth.

And a little later in the show will be joined by Julianna Horowitz.

She's the associate director of social and demographic trends research for Pure Center for research.

And we invite your comments and questions as well.

Whether you're someone who is part of the trans community, a family member, a friend, or just trying to better understand what's at stake, we invite you into this conversation.

You can call us at 11844295 talk.

That's 855 or at (585) 263-9994.

Or you can email us at connections@wxxi.org or comment in the chat section in our YouTube channel.

And we're live.

You guys look great.

Okay.

Oh, let's dive right in.

Can we just start with each of you telling us a bit about your journey and what being transgender means to you personally, and what that experience has look like here in Rochester?

Rock, paper, scissors.

Whoever wants to go first.

I guess I'm yeah.

So, as you stated, my name is Giovanna Davis.

I'm so used to introducing myself.

I do a good job.

You did okay.

Thank you, thank you.

Thank you.

Sister.

So my experience, transitioning is, was a actually a positive one, here in Rochester.

And the fact that I had a positive experience that was my main motivator to, the advocacy and community work that I do.

Because, you know, they, say with, great power comes great responsibility.

And the blessings that were just, the, blessings that were, given to me.

I knew that I had a responsibility and a calling to, use those gifts, use those blessings as a conduit for my community.

Yeah.

Because everyone's story is not like that.

And I know several people whose story is not like that.

So just being that beacon of light and offering that glimmer of hope to someone, it means so much.

I've always worked in health care.

I've been in health care for over 20 plus years.

I'm a nurse.

So health care is my first love.

So that's where I got my start.

In advocacy was through health care.

So that's something near and dear to my heart.

And it opened doors, for me to make new relationships, new friendships, and actually learning things about myself that I didn't know.

Because I, I, I transitioned very late in life.

I didn't transition till I was 37.

Wow.

So, And I had never been a part of the community.

I it was just, you know, my family, my God.

Children and work home.

That's it.

But time I started this advocacy work, in the health care system.

I it opened my eyes to so many different things, so many different people.

And it gave me a sense of purpose to know that this is what I was led to do and what, And the purpose of my life is.

And you you mentioned that your transition was a positive one.

When you say that, what do you what are you alluding to as positive?

Aside from negative, what is a positive transition experience look like?

Everything just fell into place.

From my mother on down to the lady at the DMV for my name change.

It was a positive experience.

I remember telling my mom, and she pretty much said.

I thought you would do this blank.

And, middle school.

You have always been my daughter.

So those types of things, especially coming from a parent.

That means the world to someone of trans experience.

I transitioned, my first year and my first year again, everything fell into place.

I got my name changed, gender marker changed.

Everything changed by the following year.

So I went into the new year as the new me.

Yeah.

And accepting myself because the whole part of this transition was me hindering myself throughout my life.

And then once I said yes to myself, that's when the world began to open up for me.

That's that's great.

Jovana.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing that.

Britton, talk about your your transition experience and was it a positive one?

I am thankful to be exactly talking to.

I am thankful to be exactly where I am today.

I want to say that my transition was positive, but I am thankful for the folks that I had in my life who continually have stood by me.

I am thankful for community.

And when I think about my my actual physical transition, because a lot of times we don't talk about.

We talk a lot about a physical transition.

But I have been transitioning since I was a youth.

And I think that that's really something important to highlight.

I can remember knowing and feeling, that I just wasn't a lesbian, but there were no words.

And I didn't see black or brown trans men.

In my community, maybe 1 or 2, and definitely no one in advocacy.

So when I think about it, without even getting into, like, the whole story, I realized, one of the slogans of my actual organization is I chose me to survive.

And by choosing me to survive, I chose my community.

And that's how I look at advocacy.

When I think about next generation transition, I think about how there were 4 or 5 of us in the beginning, and now we're talking about 30 to 35 black men.

Like changing the narrative, truly learning the value of self worth, and really changing the definition of advocacy.

And when I think about advocacy, we all have been able to advocate for something, and we're actually living in a time where folks are like learning to advocate not only for themselves, but for a generation that I haven't seen.

So when I think about the work that I do every day, it's for the current generation that's here.

But the generation that I've never seen yet and so, like, I'm just so thankful that in choosing myself, I was able to choose people that I've never met.

I've been able to choose people that don't live in this country.

I've been able to choose people that live in this state and across our nation.

And it gives me goosebumps because that self-love, that self preservation, like even though it or wasn't positive, I am truly a beacon of the positivity that I went through, the things that I went through.

As powerful and as powerful.

Turning your pain into into purpose?

Yes.

That's not harmful.

And, Raquel, I want to I want to get to you.

Tell me, tell me about your your experience transitioning.

Well, similar to Jovana, I. I transitioned late in life.

I was probably about 38, I think.

And it was just kind of one of those things where I didn't.

I didn't know how to define it.

You know, I was a lesbian, too.

And, before then, I had a kid, I was a single parent.

And, I just it just I didn't know what it was, you know, thank God the internet was coming out, and I started looking stuff up, and I started joining, like these AOL groups.

You know, about about transgender.

And I was like, that's me.

Oh, my God, that's me.

Yeah.

So, I went I was living in Florida at the time and, you know, at that time you have to go to two years of therapy.

You have to see a specialist of this stuff.

So I did I jumped through all the hoops.

And after about two years, my kid was probably about 12 by this time, and they knew.

And they were.

Whatever.

Fine.

Whatever you want to do, I support you.

And, we had, my mother suddenly passed, and this was in May know, February of 2009, and, something that she died of it, it could very well be passed on to me.

And it's something that kills you when you're in your 60s.

It's a whole story.

So all of a sudden, I was left with this feeling of if I've only got about a good, you know, 20 something years left, I'm going to start this now.

And of course, by then I had already been given the green light.

So it was probably about five months after my mom passed.

I got my first injection and threw up in the doctor's office.

Because I was just so terrified.

It was like, here we go.

There's no there's no turning back, you know?

Unfortunately, because of the the complications with my mom passing and then me doing this, my family was very angry with me, and they thought it was a really crappy time for me to do it.

I thought it was a great time.

So they didn't speak to me for about 15 years.

We just have just started speaking again.

But it wasn't just specifically for the they say, you know, it was just the whole thing was just really bad.

Timing is basically what they said.

So, I struggled my kid and I, we were I mean, we were almost homeless.

We were.

I was just trying to get a job.

Work.

You know, go through my my transition, my therapy and all that.

I was blessed to always have very good people in my life so that they didn't care who I was.

You know.

And then finally, what what brought me up to, Rochester was I did have one sibling and my oldest sister who is a lesbian.

Who did?

I was there for me the whole time, and she just finally said, well, you know, why don't you just come up here to she lives in Webster.

You know, if you're going to struggle down there, why don't you struggle up here with family?

I was like, oh, so I was almost kind of given a reset button to where when I came up here, I was Raquel, period.

I wasn't Raquel turning into, into Rocco.

What?

That one just over my head where?

I don't know what that is.

I just like your name.

I'm gonna use it, but you know what I'm saying?

So it was like I was able to actually kind of, grow here, and I've grown into, you know, I guess manhood.

Yeah.

Yeah, I, I love, I'm loving, I'm loving these stories because each story is very different, but similar in a sense, where you created a community, right?

If you didn't have that support initially, you created that support system.

So these stories are very similar.

But I want to talk about for black transgender people, right.

And especially black trans women, given the risk of violence, discrimination and invisibility is even higher.

Can you talk about how race and gender identity intersect?

Absolutely.

And I'm glad you brought that up, because when Raquel was speaking, I stated that my transition was positive on the surface because as a black woman of trans experience, you have to take into into account those intersections.

Not only are you trans, but you're a woman in this country, you're also black in this country.

And that dynamic of being a black woman, period.

It can be, overall a negative experience in this country.

Yeah.

So those are things I had to navigate through.

And as I picked up the mantle of my womanhood, I had to also pick up the legacy of my mother, my grandmother, my great grandmother, and so on and so forth, because now I am carrying on a lineage of black women who have always been beaten down by society and yet have been the backbone of the community.

Yes.

So as a black trans woman, I do sit here as not a danger, but I am endangered.

Because as a black trans woman, I walk out as soon as somebody knows that I'm trans.

That automatically makes me a target.

And that's why it's a fight every day for me to advocate and be so face fronting in my community, because that puts a target on my back.

When it comes to dating and relationships, that's a whole nother conversation that we could probably have two hours on.

But these are things.

And then you have to deal with, stereotypes of being, a black trans woman.

Automatically people think go to sex work, not really do anything with their lives, but one to be walk around, be pretty in all this love and stuff.

And I've never, had to sell my body.

But I know, and I don't.

I don't dismiss those who have because it is a part of survival.

Sex work is work, and to be able to go through something like that, and not, and living up to that, not having to fight against that stereotype, that that can be a challenge as well.

So, yeah, being a, black trans woman and it is so many parts to that puzzle.

Yes.

That, has to be put together that, it's a it's a struggle every day.

Just waking up every day is a revolutionary act.

Walking out of my house is is activism.

Even if I don't even open my mouth.

So being a black woman, period walking out of my house is a revolutionary act.

So those are things that you go through every day and fight against continuously, even when it doesn't even look like you're fighting.

Yeah, yeah.

And for for for Britain and Raquel, trans men, the black trans men experience.

Right.

Is there more acceptance with the white trans man than the black trans man?

Is there?

Is there, or is there more acceptance with trans man versus trans women?

Like, what are we seeing culturally?

What is it as far as acceptance?

I would jump out first.

I think I want to piggyback on something that Jovana said, but I want to expand it a little bit.

Being black and trans is is a revolutionary act.

I think that, and conversations like these, is something that we're, we're actually working through as a community and conversation like these.

I think that most people like to dive in to the difference in violence between trans women and trans men.

I think we need to just focus on the fact that there is violence like literally knocking at our doors.

The attacks are at our doors.

And I say that because just less than six years ago, there was a black trans man who was attacked for just being black, trans and queer on Garson Avenue.

And we just watch what happened to Sam Nordqvist in our own backyard.

So I think that when we talk about the violence that Perpetrates our community, we need to talk about it in an overall fascist, that is inclusive of everybody's heart.

Everybody's hurt, everybody's harm and really be able to focus on harm reduction.

Because I think that when we talk about trans people in general, it's still being dissected as if there is one worse than the other when we are completely being attacked, from our own communities, from the O, the G and the B to cisgender folks to organizational abuse.

Like, there are so many levels of abuse, that I think that we just need to talk about, like the violence that like literally perpetrates our community in general.

And one thing that, like I want to say in regards to, you know, like black trans men, I don't have the same experience, but we can talk about this.

And like Jovan was saying, this could take like another two hours.

But a lot of people don't acknowledge the fact that black trans men were were once black trans.

I mean, black women.

Yeah.

So when we talk about how being a black woman is a revolutionary act, people don't understand the backlash that we get for putting down our womanhood to become strong, powerful men because of the rhetoric of black men.

So of course, miracles experience are going to be different because right now, do we really see superiority in hierarchy and system black men.

So I can be a prominent leader in my community, but I look no different than someone who is living a different life from me that is standing on the side of the street selling drugs.

It is what it is.

I'm a black man.

I am not going to have the same opportunities that Raquel has as a white man, because white cis men have opportunities that I will never see and I'll never get to experience.

So I think that when we talk about so many of those things, it actually allows us to think about where we are in the temperature of Rochester, where there is truly and we have to be honest, there is an acceptance of white transness and then a tolerance of black transness in Rochester.

And I think that's something that we have to address because we all we already know that there is a cultural divide before even using terminology like trans.

Yeah.

So I think that like, we just have to stand there and just say that like we know that this happens culturally between cisgender people, biological people, whatever, whatever terminology, when to use.

So why would it be any different in a sub category such as being transgender?

Yes, it I would like you to respond.

As far as your your experience as, as a white trans man.

Well, you know, I agree with you 100% on that.

And the reason why I do is because you're black first.

You know, you are already at a disadvantage.

I'm sorry.

That's the way the world is.

And it really sucks hard.

My friend really stinks.

Yeah, yeah.

That's okay.

We can say something.

Okay.

I also know that I have certain privileges now that I didn't have when I was a white female.

I am the the face of America in some ways.

Without the money.

So here I am, just this white dude.

You know what I'm saying?

If people don't, you know, and even when they find out I'm trans, it's usually not that big of a deal.

Yeah.

The only experience I will never experience anything of.

What you guys.

Not even close.

But I do remember, my child definitely looks black.

And I remember when when they were younger, because they're biracial, but they definitely are all black.

How I was treated going into different places with my child as opposed to when they were in daycare.

And I would go in the same place and how I was treated.

And I was like, that's just a taste.

I know it was just a taste, but it was just like, wow, can you imagine every single day, you know, having to go through that, I can't yeah, I'm sitting on privilege and I know that, even though I, I, I almost died getting here.

Really.

But I also know that because I'm sitting with this privilege that gives me a lot of power.

Yeah.

And I can get away with a heck of a lot more than some people do.

So I try it.

I push the limits, I do, I test, I love your honesty is is refreshing, you know, because it because it's the truth, you know.

And when my wife and I walk out and go places, we just look like a white couple.

Yeah.

So I don't have to worry about my safety.

Yeah.

You know, I worry about your guys's safety all the time.

I'm always looking out, and it makes.

It scares me.

Yeah.

Because I. I'm for all the people.

Yeah.

You know, but I just know that I can I could really take advantage of where I'm sitting.

Yeah.

So I, you know, I want to transition, in let's talk about what's happening outside of Rochester on a national level.

Right.

Lawmakers in 28 states are considering nearly 100 bills that target transgender rights, many of them aimed at youth.

What do you see as the real world impact of these proposals, especially on the mental health of young people?

If you just want to react to all these legislations right now that are targeting transgender people, well, I do know it's significant significantly more than the number you just gave.

It's almost close up to 800, throughout the country.

So dealing with, these laws that are being trying to be passed in legislature right now, it's it's taxing for those that we love and care about in different states because Britain and I travel all over the country and we meet so many different people, and we see firsthand how it affects our trans siblings.

So the number is definitely higher.

Just to piggyback off what I've had to say, I think.

But again, like, I try to be as optimistic as possible, I think that we spend a lot of time talking about how many bills anti-trans bills are coming out per year, and we're not talking about the fact that most of them don't move.

And that is what bills the resilience in our community.

And when I think about it nationally, when I think about black trans people nationally, they are not uprooting from their homes.

Yes, they are truly like the legacy of Marsha, Sylvia, of Lorraine, of James Baldwin.

Like, we're not going anywhere because we've always been here.

So even last year, like, we saw, over 600 bills that were literally came out across our country and maybe 200 of them passed.

So it lets you know that no matter what the rhetoric is about trans people, that we are resilient and we are going to continue to show up and we are going to continue to fight.

And I think the the most powerful part of that is you mentioned mental health.

This is definitely affecting people's mental health.

And we know that across our nation we don't have enough mental health providers.

But what this is doing is allowing people to go back to community and build within community and show up for each other.

I've been saying this for, the last 2 to 3 years.

That it's time for queer folks to reimagine and recreate what an Underground Railroad looks like.

So even though our siblings in the South are our strong and they're resilient and they're staying stand fast and staying standing still, if they needed to migrate to safe haven states such as Connecticut, such as New York, what does it look like and how do we build the resources in our backyard?

We also know, Raquel said it firsthand.

I, I'm from Florida, but somebody told me that this space was safe, and I came here.

I haven't been here five years, but I'm here.

I'm thriving.

I'm building community.

I sit in rooms with Ivana in Britain.

I'm learning what my power looks like.

And I think that when we talk about, like, what's going on nationally, we forget that in the wake of an attack.

And when we think about in awakening an attack, we've always been attacked.

But we don't sit down and we don't hide.

And also we can't do those things because there are youth coming behind us that need to see a Jovana, that need to see a Britain, that need to see a Raquel the same way that we had Marsha Silvey.

And the list goes on and on and on.

So I think that's just really big to talk about.

And it it's, just to add to that, as black people and what we've been through throughout history, we have always been resilient.

We've always come out, you know, gathering our community, gathering our people and getting through whatever challenges we are facing.

So and that's no different, in the trans community, because no matter what we are always going to be that safe haven for each other in whatever way we can.

So no matter what laws are passed, no matter what bills are trying to be pushed in in the Senate, we are going to always be here for each other and always be here to fight for one another.

And that I just feel that's just a cultural thing.

Even when it comes to white trans folks, I hear a lot that, white parents will tell their children, if you're ever in trouble, find a black woman, or if you can't find a black woman, find a black man.

You know, because black people will make sure that you're all right in the in the darkest of days.

Even though you know all skin folk and kinfolk.

But that that that is something that you rarely get, rarely see when it comes to something like this of community building and togetherness.

And now I want to bring another voice into the conversation, someone who can help us understand the broader public attitudes towards, the trans people.

Her name is Julianna Horowitz and is a she's associate director of social and demographic trends research for Pew Center for research.

And the Pew Center has conducted research on public attitudes towards LGBTQ plus and transgender Americans.

And, so I just hit the line, but she's on Giuliana, hi.

Thank you.

How are you?

Thank you for thank you.

And how are you?

Thank you for your patience, Julianna.

I want to talk about, what the Pew Center has discovered.

Based on this research, the Pew released the new study looking at the public opinion around gender identity.

Juliana, what stood out to you most in the findings?

Right.

First, I want to just say that I really appreciated listening to the conversation that you were just having because in addition to surveying the public, we also did a large survey of LGBTQ adults.

And so much of what I was, hearing in this conversation really resonates based on the findings that we have among trans adults in our in our nationally representative survey of LGBTQ adults.

And so, so I appreciated listening to some of that conversation.

In terms of the general public, we did a survey about three years ago and repeated some of the questions, just a few months ago.

And we asked U.S. adults whether they favor oppose a series of laws and policy is aimed at, trans issues.

And the things that we found was that a majority of adults, and actually a growing share of adults, favor policies that would impose more restrictions on trans people.

And so, you know, as there have been more conversations about these topics in the national debate, things are actually trending in a way that is less positive towards trans people.

So, for example, Americans are now more supportive of policies that would require trans athletes to compete on teams that match their sex members.

They're also more supportive of policies that would make it illegal for healthcare professionals to provide minors with medical care for a transition.

More supportive of laws that require trans people to use bathrooms that match their sex at birth.

And and we see that both for Democrats and Republicans.

I mean, to be sure, there's a wide partizan gap.

And Republicans are particularly supportive of these restrictive policies.

But we're seeing a growth, in support for these policies among both Democrats and Republicans compared to three years ago.

So what are you seeing as far as the reasons behind this, this shift?

Julianna?

Well, well, so we didn't we didn't probe on that.

We didn't ask people about that.

One of the things that we did find about three years ago, when we did a larger survey looking at lots of questions related to gender identity, is that many people, you know, again, both Republicans and Democrats and particularly older adults felt that things were moving more quickly than, you know, moving too fast for them when it comes to these topics.

And so that's one of the things that we saw.

But we also do know that there has been more, you know, just more in the public discourse about these about these things.

And so, you know, that's one of the things that we need to, to understand a little bit more.

We haven't we haven't done as much research on this as, as we as we can.

But I think one of the things that I would like to, to probe deeper on and future research is what are the messages they're hearing, whether it's in the media or from politicians.

Where are they hearing them?

You know, what's the tone of those messages and how that impacts how how people respond to these policies?

And, Juliana, when you when the Pew Center compares this to how Americans feel about the broader LGBTQ plus community, particularly gay and lesbian people, are you seeing a gap in support for trans people versus other groups?

Well, so we didn't directly ask the public about that, but we did ask the in the LGBTQ survey.

We did ask, people whether, you know, the extent to which they think that our society in general accepts people today who are gay or lesbian, bisexual or non-binary and transgender.

And it was really interesting because most LGBTQ adults say that there is a great deal or a fair amount of support for people who are gay or lesbian, and about half said that there was support, you know, social acceptance for people who are bisexual, but only 13% said that they think that there's, a great deal or a fair amount of social acceptance in this country today for people who are trans and 14% said this for people who are non-binary.

And one thing that's interesting is that when we asked people how they think support for each of these groups has changed compared to ten years ago, most people, about 60% or more, say for each of these groups that now there's more social acceptance than there was ten years ago.

But even and it's so interesting that even though people think that there's more social acceptance for trans people, they still only 13% say that there's a lot of acceptance today.

You know, which gives you a sense of where people think things were ten years ago and and then we also asked people to look ahead and again and again, most people think that there will be more support for trans people ten years from now.

But again, you know, that doesn't mean that that they think there will be a lot of support.

They just mean that they think there will be more than there is now.

And there's they see such low support right now.

Juliana, any anything in that research really stood out to you?

What was the thing that really stood out to me in the, in the survey of LGBTQ adults?

Is that there, you know, there.

And again, echoing some of what I heard in the previous conversation you're having with your guests that, you know, trans adults, among those who are out to their family, they're much less likely than gay, lesbian and bisexual adults to say that their parents, siblings and extended members of their family have been accepting of them, and they're also more likely to have experienced things like fearing for their safety or, you know, saying they've been treated poorly by health care professionals.

And then and then.

So one thing that's interesting to me is that we also asked questions about the extent to which LGBTQ adults feel like they're part of a broader LGBTQ community, and the extent to which being LGBTQ, is a central part of how they think of themselves.

And, you know, their overall identity.

And trans people are more likely than gay, lesbian, bisexual people to say that they feel like they're part of a broader community.

And to say that, that, that that's part of their, you know, the central to who they see, how they see themselves as people.

And one thing that's interesting, you know, just thinking about the, you know, the literature, the research and social science that, you know, groups that tend to be to feel more threatened, rates of experience, more discrimination to to have more of these negative experiences often do have a stronger connection to, to a group.

It often makes them that makes that identity more salient to them.

And we really see that in the in the research that we did.

Okay.

Juliana, I want to thank you so much for for joining us and providing, that insight and given us depth into your research at the Pew Research Center.

We will actually take a quick break and we'll be back.

We're talking about Pride Month here in Rochester and the transgender community say.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Coming up in our second hour, we bring back a recent conversation about why there aren't more vegan restaurants.

Why aren't there more vegan food purveyors?

After all, more Americans are either going vegan or going more vegan, eating more plant based diets, but fully plant based menu bars and restaurants are still kind of hard to find.

And we'll talk about what might change that next hour.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Carey Ola Center, providing education and life skills solutions designed to empower individuals and the families of those with complex disabilities.

Mary Carey Ola Center Transforming Lives of people with disabilities More at Mary Carrie ola.org I'm Raquel Steve and you're listening to connections from WXXI.

If you're just joining us, I'm joined in studio by Giovanna Davis.

She's the founder and president of Wave Women Inc. Britton Chargers, president of the Next Generation Men of Transition and advocacy director for New Pride Agenda.

And Raquel Valerie and is the founder of the Support Alliance for Fairness and Equality for Transgender Youth.

Now, before we went to break, we heard from Julianna Horowitz.

She is one of the researchers over at the Pew Research Center, and they did a whole survey about public acceptance for the transgender community.

And I wanted you, Rocco, to respond to what you've heard Julianna discuss.

And before break, well, a lot of it was more directed towards adults.

And I think that it's really important.

I know there's a lot, you know, dealing with youth.

Yes.

You know, under 18, it's it's it's whole other, you know, can of worms because of laws and things like that.

You have to be very careful.

And of course, parents are paramount with making sure that, you know, when you work with kids that they're, you know, they're okay with it.

So I as far as the stakes are concerned, I would say, you know, for the adults, some of those surprised me, just, you know, the the feeling of the of the disconnection here and there.

But I think we need to focus a lot more on the kids in some ways.

Just because at this point, they're looking at everything going on right now, and they're going, well, what's the point?

You know, my my kid lives in Arizona, and we had to talk about this, about a month ago.

And they're they're non-binary, but they they present some days they present is male and some days they present is that however they feel, you know, which they should be able to.

And when we were talking about everything going on, I, my kids said to me, you know what, dad?

I think I'm just going to go ahead and go back into the closet for a while, and I'm just going to look like I'm supposed to look because I just and it was like, that's probably one of the most heartbreaking things.

But they were so okay with it.

But as a parent, I think that's one of the most heartbreaking things that you can ever hear somebody say, they're older, you know, they're in their 20s.

But, but as a child, you know, you see all this stuff going on and you're like, you know, what's the point?

You know, suicide rates have gone up, depression, you know, just with the schools and having to tread so lightly because some of these parents are ridiculous.

And a lot of these parent groups that are there for family and American values are basically, nothing more than pushing their, their agendas, their, you know, Christian and Christian nationalist agendas.

To make everybody this we want everybody to be the same.

We don't need this.

You don't need to teach my kid about, you know, gender roles and things like that.

And, it never was a problem before until the current administration, even, what, eight years ago started talking about it.

And then all of a sudden, parents and.

Oh, wait a minute.

So it's kind of like a this red herring in some ways.

Distraction is one of the biggest things that the administration is doing right now.

With everything so that they can get away with this, they're going to focus on this and we're, you know, whatever, whatever pleases them.

I did want to bring up a point to in regards to I am so sick of hearing about whether or not trans females should be allowed in sports.

And the reason why I'm sick of it is because they never, ever once complained about a trans male being in the sport.

So already, again, being a woman, you know, and having to, you know, just having to deal with that, I always say the same thing.

You want to go back to regular bathrooms?

Okay, I'll see you in the girls room because I'm still female.

You know, no surgeries.

So it's like, how would you feel if I went into the bathroom?

That into the female?

Like, they're not thinking.

They're just.

They're just like these lemmings that are just following whatever's being said.

And whatever is the hot topic at the moment.

So it's it's it's misogynistic.

It's it's more it's more geared towards, women, especially black women, trans women.

I know I'm getting a little off topic, but I just, I had to say my piece on that.

But I think I'm, I'm really just concerned with the youth because I feel like some of them may feel hopeless, and and I want us to be able to say, hey, look, we made it.

We did it, and I did it at the time.

You know what?

What 2008, 2007 where they didn't even know what that was.

I didn't even know what it was.

Yeah, I have a I have a question for Rocco and Giovanna because you both transitioned later in life, right?

Do you think there was a time where it's too early to transition?

Maybe you're just people say, were you going through you're just going through something.

You're just going through a phase?

Absolutely not.

A child knows who they are at a very young age.

I knew who I was at a very young age, but I held me back.

So I believe that's definitely a family decision.

And I feel like the parents should definitely, definitely listen to their children, when they say these types of things because it's it's not just in their head because a child knows who they are, they might suppress it.

They might do like we did and we a little later in life, but it's there and it should not be taken.

Lightly.

And I agree, I actually, I, I was on the fence about that for a long time because I'm also, I also work in the mental health field and I'm kind of like, okay, so where where's is the start?

Where does this begin?

Nature versus nurture.

You got it out of the until I met a family who has a, transgender child who, who transitioned fairly young because from the age of two on, they were insistent that they were male.

Now, this family never even.

You're talking about middle class, white family.

Never even.

They're not talking about this at the dinner table.

So it's not like they can influence somebody.

And it was a shock to them.

And thank God, as good parents, they decided to learn everything they could.

Let's do therapy.

Let's learn everything we can.

And now this child is is thriving as a teenager.

So once you know, you hear stuff like that, you hear about it all the time.

These little kids are like, when I was a little kid, I was like, I'm, I'm a boy.

I had the haircut I had.

I did as much as I could get away with.

And my mother was very supportive of that, like when I cut all my hair off, I, you know, and I was like 7 or 8 years old and I loved it.

I just loved that feeling.

I couldn't put a name on it.

I couldn't figure out what it was.

But I knew it was something.

And I knew I just knew I wasn't in the right body.

And I was just always wondering why.

Why did God, you know, put me in the wrong body?

I don't understand this.

So I think you're right.

I think I do agree that there are some any teenager, they like to go along and it's a it could be a phase or a fad or things like that.

A parent knows, and if you don't take your kid therapy and figure it out and go to family therapy, you know, and learn about that.

If you have, you know, if you have the means to do so.

So I do believe that all bets are off.

It could be any age.

It could be anything.

And if you're just a good parent, you're going to do everything you can to support your child and just make sure that they're living a healthy life.

Being trans and the action of transitioning, we're not a monolith.

It's always going to be, different for everyone in their transition, and it's going to look different for everyone.

We might have similar experiences, but it's going to have a different, different experiences every time.

So yeah, I just wanted to throw that out there.

Know, as far as, you know, this this month we're we're here doing this because this month is is pride month here in Rochester.

What do you think pride month or this this weekend will look like?

Now with all this political scrutiny having around transgender people while I was at the flag raising last night over, I can't remember the name of the park.

Forgive me for that.

For the LGBT or all inclusive flag, where the mayor was and and some Assembly people, Assembly men and women and whatnot, and the level of security.

Wow.

I would never experience before.

They looked like, like they were working for the president, you know, and they were standing here and here and, and their job was to just keep looking around.

And, I was like, oh, yeah, that that is where we live now is.

Yeah, that's the kind of.

So I see, I'm hoping to see I'm sad that we have to see a lot more security, and a lot more of, you know, you my wife and I, we joke at home all the time.

If you see something, say something.

You know?

But it's really true.

I think the difference this year is going to be safety.

I think that there's going to be there's still going to be joy, and there's going to be celebration.

And half of the people are going to be oblivious to anything else.

And because this is the only time, maybe they get to wear what they want and do what they want to come out and be a part of a a beautiful, loving community.

But I think that safety is always, you know, with everything going on right now, it's scary.

And I think these events will happen.

Safety needs to be a priority and needs to be taken seriously by these organizations that are throwing, these events because.

It can be a bad situation if you don't have the right security with a large group of people who is basically targeted by, certain folks in the community.

So as you're celebrating this month, are you scared?

The word.

I'm not afraid.

I'm never afraid.

No.

Hell, no.

But I'm aware, and I am situational awareness.

And I look out for everybody that I can know.

I don't scare that easily.

Oh, I was going to say.

I don't think that mind comes down to fear or being scared.

I think that when I think of this pride season, I think about education.

I think about language.

Because when we're talking about fear and it's just like a challenging rebuttal.

But like, trans folks don't feel safe in LGBTQ plus spaces because there are lesbians, gays and bisexuals that don't believe that we should exist and exist in their spaces.

So even when we're talking about safety and protection, you can be in the same park and not feel safe with the same folks that quote unquote you share community with.

So I think that this year we need to really talk about education and language.

We talked a lot here about transitioning in the previous question, was like, you know, is there an age where, like someone is there an age limit to transitioning?

And I don't think that we spend enough time.

I think that we have like a lot of these very rare surface conversations, but we're not talking about what a transition entails.

If a transition is truly just allowing an eight year old to go to therapy and socially express themselves, that's a transition, I think, when we're talking about transitioning.

And again, like when I think about what Juliana was saying about the research, it's the lack of education, it's the lack of language knowledge, because there would be someone who was born in 1945 that thinks that transition is completely wrong.

If you're always talking about hormone replacement therapy and surgeries, we're not talking about being in community, in socially, socially engaging.

We're not talking about therapy to talk through these things.

We're not having those conversations.

And I think that when people have transition conversations, it's just the bare minimum.

People walk away like people will walk away from listening to this radio segment and not truly know the multiple ways that someone can transition, and that is why people's safety is at risk, and that's why people don't feel protected.

And those are why we have a lot of even the policies that we're looking at.

We have legislators in our very own backyards who are signing off on anti-trans rhetoric, but can't tell you the difference between a trans man and a trans woman.

We're having people sign bathroom bans, but you do not want to see me in a bathroom with your daughter, but you're signing these things without having the knowledge, the education and being equipped to actually know what you're voting on and who you're protecting.

Also, again, like Raquel, you always talk about youth.

And I love and I love being able to bring up youth.

But when I think about like what we need to do in our city and to protect our youth and our city, we just saw what happened less than six months ago at one of our very own high schools.

We seen what happened to Kat.

Right, but where are the liaisons, the LGBTQ plus liaisons in the school?

Because these are not just for queer and trans kids.

These are for all kids.

Because if I feel like I'm a bully, I would like to go and talk to Miss Rocky and say, Miss Rocky, hey, Raquel is really my friend and I like Raquel, but at home we're not allowed to like trans people or we're not allowed to do these things.

Having this support system is not just for queer kids.

It's for every child to learn to be a friend and to be a protector for someone that you care about.

And that's how we actually grow community and build on community.

So this pride season, I think people should really just stand on education and language and doing the work absolutely well.

Happy pride to all of you.

And I wish safety on all your events, and I hope you enjoy the weekend and thank you all for being guest.

Giovanna Britton Rocco, I really appreciate you guys for joining us and being transparent and vulnerable here in this space.

Thank you for having us.

Is having a happy pride and happy pride.

Happy pride.

Stay with us for another hour of one of your favorite rivers of connections.

Up next.

Up.

This program is a production of Sky Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station, its staff, management, or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium, without express written consent of Sky is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the connections link at WXXI news.

Org.