[compelling music] ♪ [compelling music continues] ♪ [compelling music continues] ♪ [compelling music continues] - Hello and welcome to "Comic Culture."

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guest today is artist Ben Macleod.

Ben, welcome to "Comic Culture."

- It's great to be here, Terence.

- Ben, you are working on an anthology series called "The77."

I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and perhaps how you got started with it.

- The series is about three years old.

It's quite a small industry in the UK as you're probably aware.

There's only a couple of major titles, "2000 AD" being one of them.

And they started up about three years ago sort of based off the success of a fan group essentially on Facebook.

And the idea really was that they had a lot of artists that had previously worked in the industry, maybe for "2000 AD" and others, had a lot of sort of new talent that couldn't find an avenue, you know.

So, it's difficult to get into the industry in any country I imagine, but certainly in the UK is quite tricky.

And during lockdown, I was lucky enough really to come across an ad for them.

And I'd been out of the industry for a number of years, and as with a lot of people during lockdown, I reassessed my sort of life and where I was going and the choices I'd made and I thought I'd give it a go, and was lucky enough to be accepted.

And it's gone from strength to strength really, so... - You mentioned the differences between comics in Britain and the United States.

In the United States, I think most folks are aware that we have, you know, superhero comics, and there are other series, but we don't really have a successful and popular anthology series.

And I'm sure someone will send me an email telling me that I'm wrong, but it seems that that is the format that is very popular in Britain.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

- It's true.

It is true.

I mean, over the years, they've tried.

Various publishers have tried to bring out, you know, one particular genre or another, an entire book, but recently, not so much.

And I think in many ways, the model, the dye was sort of cast years ago with "2000 AD" and "Eagle" and other sort of comics in what we would call the Golden Age really of British comics, you know, back in the sort of 70s, around about there.

And I think the thinking was, this is my understanding is that, you know, it's a small market in the UK, and in order to catch as many readers, potential readers, you know, you have a story for everything, a bit like the old superstores, you know, where you'd sell underwear next to kids' toys, [laughs] you know.

So I think that was the thinking, and they've sort of gone with it really.

And it is difficult.

It's difficult to bring out a new title in the UK because it is quite a small market, you know.

I know you're aware comics take a while to produce, you know.

The artwork takes a while, and as a result, it's really quite expensive to produce a large, you know, book, a longer book.

So I think that's really, you know, where it comes from.

- And, you know, you talk about "The77" and sort of getting back into comics during the lockdown, and it does take time to make comics.

So, when you were home, as we all were during the lockdown, did you find yourself just drawn to, you know, sitting at the drawing table, or were you maybe thinking to yourself, I could try, I'll experiment with some of the new digital tools out there and see if I can figure those out?

- I initially had some success about sort of 20 years ago, and I had to make a decision at the time.

I was just getting started, got published with "2000 AD" and then I also had had a family at the same time, you know.

And this all kind of happened all at the same time really.

And so I had to make a decision quite quickly.

My father, we had a small family business.

I suppose circumstances really kind of pushed me in that direction, so I made that decision.

So although, you know, I haven't been working professionally or hadn't been for a number of years, I did continue drawing, you know, because it's my passion.

I grew up as a kid drawing.

I never put a pencil down.

So to answer your question, I was already sort of [indistinct] with digital, you know, tools, and I actually prefer to do the coloring with digital software.

So I have [indistinct] other brands are out there, but I have a saved up to buy myself this beautiful bit of kit.

So yeah, I do work digitally, but during lockdown, yeah, it was a bit of a sort of a revelatory moment really, you know, and it sort of came at the right time.

I know it was a terrible time, you know, for so many people.

Of course, it was, but, you know, a lot of creative people, I think, found themselves with time to reflect, time to reassess, and time to just do what they love.

And so I was literally just... [laughs] I was drawing the whole time really in between cups of tea with my wife.

[laughs] And, yeah, I produced about, I think it was about five or six new pieces of work, and, you know, they were, I think, a lot better quality than I had produced in the past.

And I felt like I'd really moved up a level, and I got a lot of interest, you know, from that work and still am getting, you know, good interest.

So, yeah, so for me, it's a good story really in that sense, but yeah.

- During that lockdown period when we all sort of reassessed I guess our spot in the world at that particular moment, it's a good time to sort of reflect.

And did you find that the pieces that you're working on reflected this new awareness of, I guess, the fragility of life or the important things in life, or was it just more like, you know, I've always wanted to tell this story and let me just dive right into it?

- Yeah, that's a good question.

I think they may have done, but I hadn't hadn't really thought about that [laughs] to be honest.

I did a couple of pieces.

You know, I've always liked science fiction and sort of, you know, the darker science fiction.

But I also appreciate a bit of, you know, dark sort of comedy, you know.

So the pieces I did were quite sort of sinister.

One was of my wife as the model for a character, Judge Anderson.

I don't know if you've seen the "Dredd" movie if you're aware of the character Judge Dredd.

- Mhm.

- Okay.

So he has, you know, not a sidekick so much, but another judge who's a woman called Anderson.

And so I used my wife as the model, and in the background Judge Death, which is this really sort of sinister, you know, character with all just teeth, you know, teeth and claws, and he's looming over her.

So now that you mention it, yeah, I guess I was feeling it, you know, but as I say, it was very, I guess, subconscious really.

You know, I wasn't setting out to convey that, you know, in the [indistinct].

I was just so enjoying, you know, sort of being able to put all my time into that artwork, which I hadn't had that opportunity for so many years really that it felt quite joyous.

[chuckles] And I know that sounds odd because of course, there was this tragedy, you know, unfolding outside my studio.

And of course, I was aware of that, but, you know, sometimes you don't wanna dwell on it either.

If you just dwell on the dark side, then, you know, it's pretty tough, isn't it?

You know, everyone needs that little stairway of light to pull them through, and I guess my art was that really.

- In the time between, I guess, "2000 AD" and when you start your family and then go back to comics again in recent years, were you doing sequential art or was it just sort of maybe a painting or a poster style piece?

- So, I was doing quite a lot of writing actually because always, you know when I started out in comics, my real sort of ambition was to create my own stories really, you know, and illustrate them.

But that was such a tough path to trick, you know, in the UK especially.

There was just no avenue for that.

And as I say, my circumstances kind of moved away from that pretty quickly, but I did carry on writing, so I wrote.

You know, I've written two or three sort of what I would call kind of major stories.

I was working on those.

And I did work on sequential work, but as I say, because I was sort of running the family business as well, that took up a lot of my time.

It really didn't allow me to sort of pursue it other than this kind of low level hobby, you know, a little bit here, a little bit there.

And, you know, it was tough, but as a result, what's happened is I got into "The77" illustrating another writer's work, which was great.

And then as soon as I'd finished the first story arc, you know, three issues, I had the opportunity to either continue with that story or offer my own workup.

And of course, [laughs] I jumped at the chance and said, "Listen, I've got a story "I'd like to put in here."

So now I'm in this brilliant position really of, you know, like co-writing.

I've got a friend of mine writing with me, and we sort of brainstorm, and he really kind of, I don't know, just polishes off my rough diamond of a overall story.

Yeah, and that's the "Black Dog Lane" story, which is in "The77."

So, yeah, so I was working, but as I say sporadically, and it always felt like, you know, I really didn't have an opportunity to get anything out there.

I needed a good run at it, you know?

- And you mentioned the "Black Dog Lane," which is from the pieces that I've seen is a lot of fun.

If I'm correct, it's sort of like a security guard for rock bands in the 70s, sort of has to become something in this post-apocalyptic world to bring change.

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

- He's a rockstar bodyguard from the 70s.

And the idea of that was really to thematically connect it to "The77," which is, you know, 1977.

It's based on the year.

And he's a bit inept, you know, as a bodyguard.

He starts off the first three sort of scenes or glimpses of him, panels, he's looking after Elvis in one of them.

He's the one that that provides the burger, the deadly burger that supposedly killed him.

And another one is Lynyrd Skynyrd.

He sorts out the plane for them to fly on.

Yeah, there's a few.

So he is having a bad run.

He's having [laughs] a bad year in '77.

So he takes on a job, the only job he can get with his firm at a sort scientific institute, you know, in the UK, and, unbeknownst to him, they're working on sort of wormhole technology back in the 70s.

And to cut a long story short, he, first of all, falls in love, and his whole world is turning around.

He can't believe his luck, but then he's sucked through a vortex into this apocalyptic future.

And really, the story is is it's like he wants to get back, you know.

He needs to get back, but he ends up becoming this...

They believe that he's this figure called the King Slayer because they can look, they read his memories using this disgusting alien that attaches and sucks the memories out of his head, And they see that he feels he's responsible for killing the King, of course, Elvis.

And they believe that he is the King Slayer in which is this prophesied character that will save, you know, humanity in the future.

And really from then on, you know, it's the adventures of him in the future.

He wants to get back to the 70s.

And you have glimpses of his past.

He worked with Jimmy Hendrix.

In issue two, you get a glimpse of him.

He's the one that was sent out to get lighter fuel to set his guitar on fire.

And the beauty of it really is that, you know, I made him a bodyguard to the rock stars really because it gives you access to these fantastic iconic moments and people in history.

And there's always room to just squeeze in, you know, a character like our man who's...

He's actually called Lonergan Wolf, which is sort of based on "Lone Wolf," which is the Japanese series because he ends up with a child, and him and this child are on this journey.

And that was sort of taken, inspired really, by the "Lone Wolf" series.

So I called him Lonergan Wolf as a sort of tribute to that.

Yeah, [laughs] so I could carry on, but I'm sure [laughs] that...

I think that's enough, isn't it?

[laughs] - Well, it's fantastic because, you know, you have this aesthetic that works so well.

I mean, I looked at some of the pieces, and he looks like he's a 70s bodyguard for a rock band.

And then the one cover that I've seen is it's sort of, I guess, a tribute to the cover of "Bat Out of Hell," which was one of those albums that my sister listened to in the car all the time when she would take us to, you know, the store or the beach.

Is there some kind of connection where you're intentionally going back to that glory day of album work?

- Yeah, there is.

There's some of that.

This is interesting 'cause at the time... Look, there's a brief story to tell you.

Just before this, I put Sean Connery into the story that I did before, the first story in "The77," just, you know, as a model, but it was clearly Sean Connery, and then he died.

[laughs] And it was like, okay, okay, well that's obviously not my fault, you know, that's fine.

Then I decided to draw the cover.

I had the opportunity to do the front cover, you know, of issue seven, which was the beginning of my story, you know, "Black Dog Lane,: and I really actually chose the cover because, A, it was this iconic band, you know, this 70s...

I mean, that is 70s rock, big, over the top, you know.

And although really, I would say Meatloaf, I enjoyed it, but I was really more of a Led Zeppelin, Lynyrd Skynyrd kind of fan, you know, as I was growing up.

And I kind of missed that era.

But anyway, I was close enough to it to love that kind of rock.

But I chose it really for Richard Corben who did the cover because he'd died the year before.

So my intention was to pay tribute to Corben who I thought was just a fantastic artist, you know.

And so that was the tribute.

But between illustrating it, I'd actually finished it.

Before it came out, Meatloaf died.

[chuckles] And then I had all these emails coming in from the fans of "The77" saying, "You've killed another one."

[laughs] I'm like, hey, whoa.

So they were asking me to draw pictures of, you know, Boris.

Donald Trump was one of the... [laughs] So I had a few, you know.

So I don't think there's anything [indistinct].

So, I don't think.

I mean, man, you know, art is pretty powerful, but there are limits, right?

[laughs] - Well, I think you could turn this into your next arc, of course, as the artist who accidentally kills everybody.

- [laughs] Yeah, good.

I could.

There's another story in there.

There's another book.

[laughs] - Well, I did wanna talk about I believe it was "The Trackless Depths," which is the story that you did before, and this is the one that you were providing art for someone else's story?

- Yeah, Dave Bedford was the artist, and he's doing really well.

You know, a lot of the talent on "The77," you have a mixture of sort of people like myself.

There's another couple of artists who, for one reason or another, didn't pursue the the career early on and have come back to it later.

But Dave is, I think, quite new to writing, but he's pretty prolific, and he seems to be producing quite a lot of very varied work, you know.

So yeah, he was great to work with.

His script, there wasn't much in it, but it really captured the time, which was, you know, the late 1800s, you know, the cutter, those like the Cutty Sark, and you know, those ships that traveled to what was the empire back in the day, the British Empire, raping and pillaging the world really, but we call it the [laughs] British Empire.

But yeah, the scripts somehow, in very few words, really captures that feel.

So it was really fun doing it, pretty challenging.

You know, those older sailing ships, there's a lot of rope [laughs] to draw.

And so that was quite challenging.

Getting it right, you know, yeah, was a challenge, but a challenge is good, you know.

It's always good to challenge yourself with new things.

- It's fascinating because you are able to draw a character that you based on Sean Connery, and then when I saw the picture originally, I'm like, that looks like Sean Connery, and it was circa, I believe, when he did the film "The Man Who Would Be King."

And then I read the description that you were sort of inspired by it.

- Brilliant, brilliant move, - But then, he's next to another character who, again, has this look of someone who's been on this sea for decades, just has this worn face and this beautiful rendered pencil, but I'm assuming that when you get this ready for publishing, you're doing something with it digitally to either color it or ink it and get it ready to print.

- Yeah, so, I am...

I mean, it's funny, years ago when I started out and I had my little run, you know, with "2000 AD," they wouldn't let me use pencils straight to color, even though at the time, the technology was there, you know, but it was in its infancy.

Now, I mean, you see it everywhere, you know.

You see you pick up a graphic novel and there's paint, there's pencil, there's a whole mixture of stuff, you know, but it was still very much black line work and flat color, pretty, pretty flat, you know.

But then, when I came to do this one, I realized I can do what I like, you know, and it's a smaller production.

You know, "2000 AD" is quite a large publication, and really if they say jump, pretty much, you're gonna have to jump.

So, yeah, so I managed it.

I managed just, yeah, to put the pencils in, but I used a software called Clip Studio, which used to be a Manga, I think Manga Studio back in the day, and, you know, it's very similar to Photoshop, has all those qualities, but more geared towards the comic artist or animator.

But it's quite tricky.

You know, you've gotta get those levels right to bring the pencils up.

And when you're drawing it in pencil, sort of you're working towards that thinking, well, what do I need to darken in order for this to still come through, that sort of wash of color or tone that you put on?

And, you know, inevitably I do have to work into it a little bit and darken things up, and, you know, it's a process, you know, but it's one that I've developed and it seems to be working pretty well now.

Now I've kind of translated it into the color with "Black Dog Lane."

And I mean, one of my heroes really was Bill Sienkiewicz who I think you interviewed actually on your show, and I was pretty blown away, thought, I can't believe they're going to interview me [laughs] on the same show that Sienkiewicz was on.

But he sort of pioneered that early on, just having those lovely...

He would go from a fully painted panel into sort of ink, and, you know, he would really chop it up and change it, and then he'd have a panel just pencils with just this really soft watercolor wash over the pencils.

And so, I kind of in my own humble way sort of following that sort of path that he set.

It's very open, and for an artist that, in particular me, I can get a little bit bored, you know, if I have to keep being, you know, hemmed in and just it must be ink, it must be...

So it's kind of nice to just break out, and certain panels and moods will suit, you know, a particular render better than others.

So, it's great.

I'm just having fun and sort of doing it the way I want to do it at the moment.

- Yeah, I've recently been working on a project where I was doing traditional pen and ink brush art and then bringing into Clip Studio to do some work, and I really struggled with trying to get, you know, what I had been doing for years, the 10 by 15 comic page, then bringing it into what the publisher's looking for, and then, you know, doing the tweaks and adding, in this case, there was a black and white, so adding gray tones to it.

Did you find yourself struggling when you had to adapt to what might be a new format or a new size to get those, you know, pencil pages to fit that right size?

- Not really, no.

That's the short answer, [laughs] but I used to use a scanner to scan in my work, and I tend to work [indistinct] three, and I know will frame it.

I'll draw it out to the scaled up size, so that it fits the page.

So, you know, it's the ratio.

The aspect ratio is right if you see what you mean.

But nowadays, actually, I just use my phone because my scanner...

I went through a couple of scanners.

They're expensive, and they don't seem to last very long.

And I discovered that actually it's easier to just take a photo and ping it across.

And the resolution is so good on the phones now, you know, I don't need a scanner, so I just pop that in there and I just resize it to the page.

So, yeah, you know, I found it pretty easy to do that, but I guess I've had a bit of practice now, but, yeah.

What was your problem in particular?

- My problem in particular was- - [Ben] This gonna turn into a... [laughs] - My problem was, again, I'm working 10 by 15, and the publisher is giving me a template to use.

So it wasn't the right aspect ratio, as you said.

So I had to rescale a few panels and then chop it up, put the panel borders in, and then by the time I figured it out, I knew what I was doing, but the first few times, it was an exercise in profanity.

- Yeah, well, I go through a few of those [laughs] on a weekly basis.

Did you have individual panels as well, or was it, did you have the whole page sort of drawn out in one or you were popping in those panels?

- It was, I did the scan of the full 10 by 15, and then I would chop it up to put the panels in after I had mucked it up quite a bit.

- No, I've done that.

We all do that.

[laughs] Well, that you're just giving yourself more work, really, aren't you there?

[laughs] But I've certainly done that myself, yeah.

- If the folks watching at home wanted to find out more about you, about "The77," where can they find you on the web?

- So we've got pages on Facebook.

So if you go to The77 Publications or The77 Comic, you'll find everything about the comic there.

There's a shop.

You can buy all the back issues.

I have MacsArt Studio.

macsart.studio is the website, @MacsArtStudio, Instagram.

I'm on Facebook as Ben Macleod.

I also have a page on there, so I'm pretty... Yeah, anyone can find me [laughs] if they want to.

- Well, Ben, I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk with me.

It's been a fun and fast half hour.

- It's been a pleasure and an honor, Terence.

Thank you very much for having me.

- I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching "Comic Culture."

We will see you again soon.

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