♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

TODAY WE ARE CELEBRATING WITH ONE OF MY FAVORITE AUTHORS AND ONE OF YOURS TOO, ANNE HILLERMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION, I ALWAYS LOVE TALKING TO YOU.

>>LORENE: I LOVE TALKING TO YOU, BUT I LOVE THE REASON I HAVE TO TALK TO YOU IS WHEN YOU HAVE A NEW BOOK AND THIS IS YOUR 10TH BOOK, IT'S CALLED THE SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE .

WHAT A RICH, RICH TITLE AND WHAT A RICH, RICH BOOK IT IS.

SO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND BECAUSE YOUR DAD WAS TONY HILLERMAN, ALSO AN ICONIC NEW MEXICO AUTHOR AND YOU, YOU SAID PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK YOU, WELL, ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE, YOU GOING TO WRITE AND YOU SAID, NO, OUT LOUD.

IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND, YOU WERE PROBABLY SAYING, WHAT IF?

SO YOU HAD THE CHALLENGE OF BEING TRUE TO YOUR DAD'S BOOKS AND ALSO THEN TO MAKE THEM YOUR OWN, SO HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT DOING THAT TO BEGIN WITH?

>>ANNE: VERY NERVOUS, VERY, VERY NERVOUS.

YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY'RE WRITING A FIRST MYSTERY OR ANY KIND OF A FIRST NOVEL, THEY THINK, OH, WELL, I'LL DO MY BEST, AND MY MOM WILL READ IT, AND THE PEOPLE IN MY HIGH SCHOOL CLASS MIGHT READ IT, AND MAYBE MY COLLEGE SORORITY WILL READ IT, BUT I KNEW MY DAD, I MEAN MY DAD HAD BEEN ON THE NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER LIST FOR HIS LAST SIX BOOKS.

SO I KNEW THERE WERE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WOULD BE CURIOUS ABOUT THIS BOOK AND I ALSO KNEW BECAUSE MY DAD WAS SUCH A FINE WRITER, THAT THEY WERE CONDITIONED TO VERY WELL-CONSTRUCTED STORIES AND WONDERFUL CHARACTERS AND PLOTS THAT JUST MOVED FROM POINT A TO POINT Z WITH HARDLY A MISSTEP, SO BIG, BIG SHOES TO FILL.

SO I WAS NERVOUS, BUT I LOVED HIS CHARACTERS, AND I JUST HATED TO THINK OF THE SERIES ENDING WITH DAD'S DEATH AND SINCE I WAS A WRITER, AND STARTED OUT IN JOURNALISM LIKE MY FATHER, BUT THEN I HAD DONE SOME NONFICTION BOOKS, SO I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF EXPERIENCE WITH WRITING LONGER THAN 500 WORDS, WHICH IS USUALLY WHAT YOU WRITE FOR A NEWSPAPER.

SO I THOUGHT, WELL, I'LL GIVE IT A TRY AND THAT WAS MY FIRST BOOK, SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER AND NOW THE 10TH ONE IS HERE, I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT.

WHEN I THOUGHT ABOUT STARTING THE SERIES OR CONTINUING THE SERIES, REALLY I THOUGHT IF I CAN WRITE THIS ONE BOOK AND SOMEBODY READS IT, I'LL BE HAPPY, SO IT'S JUST SUCH A WONDERFUL GIFT TO HAVE THIS TURNED INTO A CAREER.

>>LORENE: BUT WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS BOOK, FIRST OF ALL, SPIDER WOMAN IS A MYTH ABOUT THE CREATION OF THE NAVAJO WORLD AND ALL OF THAT, BUT THE SPIDER WOMAN IS A CRAFTSWOMAN AND YOU HAD TO BE A CRAFTSWOMAN OF WORDS AND PLOTS AND NUANCE AND LANDSCAPES, AND YOU JUST DID IT BEAUTIFULLY.

>>ANNE: OH, WELL, THANK YOU.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF WRITING, AND I THINK THIS IS TRUE FOR MANY CREATIVE PROCESSES, IT DOES INVOLVE WEAVING TOGETHER A LOT OF DIFFERENT ELEMENTS.

SO THE NAVAJO WEAVING THAT I REFER TO IN SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER ACTUALLY WAS A REALLY GOOD METAPHOR FOR ME AS I WAS TRYING TO WEAVE TOGETHER ALL THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS THAT HAD TO GO INTO THE MYSTERY.

>>LORENE: IT'S ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL.

BUT NOW YOU'RE AT YOUR TENTH ONE, THE SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE AND I DO WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO YOUR LAST BOOK BECAUSE IT'S CALLED LOST BIRDS .

AND TO ME IT WAS SO POIGNANT BECAUSE THERE ARE BIRDS FLYING IN THE SKY WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE LOST, BUT EXACTLY WHAT CULTURAL AND SOCIOLOGICAL LOST BIRDS DID YOU INCORPORATE INTO THIS?

>>ANNE: LOST BIRDS REFERS TO THE TERM THAT'S USED FOR NATIVE CHILDREN WHO ARE ADOPTED OUTSIDE OF THEIR TRADITIONAL COMMUNITIES AND RAISED BY NON-NATIVES, AND THEIR FAMILIES OF ORIGINS ALWAYS MISS THEM, AND THEY REFER TO THEM AS LOST BIRDS, HOPING THAT SOMEDAY THEY WILL FIND THEIR WAY BACK TO THE NEST AND BE INCORPORATED BACK INTO THE TRIBAL TRADITIONS.

NOW THERE ARE LAWS IN PLACE THAT PROTECT THOSE CHILDREN, THAT REALLY HELP REINFORCE THEIR TRIBAL ROOTS, BUT MY BOOK, LOST BIRDS , INVOLVES A WOMAN WHO WAS BORN AND PUT UP FOR ADOPTION BEFORE THOSE LAWS WERE IN PLACE.

IT WAS A STORY THAT REALLY RESONATED WITH ME, I COME FROM A FAMILY WITH ADOPTED CHILDREN, AND MY MOTHER HAD AN ADOPTED SISTER, MY FATHER'S BROTHER HAD TWO ADOPTED CHILDREN, SO ADOPTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BIG PART OF MY LIFE.

IT WAS FUN TO BE ABLE TO KIND OF TAKE SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE PERSONAL AND THEN TURN IT INTO FICTION AND PUT JOE LEAPHORN TO WORK, YOU KNOW, SOLVING A PROBLEM.

>>LORENE: YES, ALSO, I LOVED SOME OF THE SLEUTHY DETECTIVE ELEMENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, SHE HAD ONE PHOTOGRAPH, AND IT HAD A CERTAIN STYLE OF NAVAJO WEAVING AND THE WOMAN WHO WAS HOLDING HER, THE BLANKET AND THE BABY, WERE OF A CERTAIN AGE AND A CERTAIN STYLE.

SO SHE WAS ABLE TO INVESTIGATE WHERE WAS THAT BLANKET FROM, WHEN WERE THOSE DYES USED, WHAT YEAR WAS THAT, AND ALL OF THAT, AND THEN BE ABLE TO RECONNECT IN A BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL WAY.

>>ANNE: YOU KNOW, IT JUST MAKES ME REALIZE HOW MUCH, ACTUALLY, DETECTIVE WORK GOES ON IN SO MANY JOBS, SO MANY PROFESSIONS.

IT'S FUN TO BE ABLE TO KIND OF TAKE THAT ELEMENT AND TURN IT INTO A PROFESSION OF WRITING ALL OF THESE STORIES.

I HAVE TO SAY, WHEN I WROTE MY FIRST BOOK, I NEVER IMAGINED THAT YOU AND I WOULD BE SITTING HERE TODAY.

>>LORENE: FOR THE 10TH TIME.

>>ANNE: YEAH, SO MANY YEARS LATER.

IT REALLY WAS SUCH A WONDERFUL GIFT, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY, THAT MY FATHER AND MOTHER GAVE ME WHEN THEY ENCOURAGED ME TO READ AND ENCOURAGED ME TO WRITE AND JUST ENCOURAGED ME TO STAND ON MY OWN AND YOU KNOW MAKE SOMETHING OF MY LIFE.

>>LORENE: BUT ALSO, YOUR FATHER AND YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DEDICATED TO LIBRARIES BECAUSE THERE ARE KIDS THAT ARE GROWING UP THAT CANNOT BUY A $30 HARDBACK AND ARE LUCKY TO FIND A USED TATTERED PAPERBACK, BUT THERE ARE LIBRARIES AND LIBRARIANS ARE ANGELS.

I MEAN THEY FIND A KID WHO LIKES TRAINS OR GUNS OR I DON'T KNOW VIDEO GAMES.

AND IS ABLE TO FEED HIM BOOKS THAT HE WILL LIGHT UP ABOUT AND THEN WANT MORE AND THEN WANT MORE, IT IS LIKE LIGHTING A FIRE.

>>ANNE: YEAH, IT REALLY IS.

I'M SO HAPPY I HAVE AN INVITATION TO GO TO QUESTA TO DO A TALK AT THEIR PUBLIC LIBRARY.

>>LORENE: OH, YES.

>>ANNE: YEAH, AND I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO IT, I LOVE THAT LITTLE TOWN, AND THEIR LIBRARIAN SEEMS LIKE REALLY A DYNAMO.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A BEAUTIFUL DAY.

>>LORENE: BUT ALSO, THERE WILL BE KIDS IN THAT AUDIENCE WHO NEVER THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO WRITE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO TELL THEM, JUST DO IT.

IT'S JUST LIBERATING, EVEN IF NOBODY EVER SEES IT, FOR THE AUTHOR HERSELF OR HIMSELF, IT OPENS UP INTERNAL DOORS.

>>ANNE: YEAH, IT'S SO INTERESTING HOW ONE LITTLE IDEA LIKE THAT CAN JUST, IT'S LIKE A SPARK IN DRY TINDER AND IT JUST EXPLODES, YOU NEVER KNOW.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO BE AS POSITIVE AS YOU CAN WITH PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S A KID IN SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE AND THERE ARE CHILDREN IN A LOT OF MY BOOKS, BUT IN THAT ONE, IN THAT BOOK, I REALLY HADN'T PLANNED ON HAVING A CHILD AND THEN IT JUST KIND OF HAPPENED.

>>LORENE: THAT'S A PRETTY CHARMING LITTLE SPROUT, RIGHT, HIS NAME IS WHAT?

>>ANNE: SPROUT, SAM, BUT THEY CALL HIM SPROUT.

>>LORENE: AND AT ONE POINT HE'S HIDING CAUSE HE'S BEEN IN DANGER AND WEIRD, HORRIBLE THINGS ARE HAPPENING AND WHEN YOU CALL HIM BY HIS SECRET NAME, HE CAN ANSWER, HE KNOWS THAT IT'S OKAY.

BUT IF YOU WERE CALLING SAM, SAM, HE WASN'T GOING TO SAY A WORD, BUT SPROUT, THEN HE CAME OUT.

THAT WAS VERY CHARMING, HE WAS A DELIGHTFUL KID.

I HOPE HE MIGHT COME BACK MAYBE.

>>ANNE: HE MIGHT, HE MIGHT, YOU NEVER KNOW.

>>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING NOW THAT DARK WINDS , WHICH IS AN AMERICAN MOVIE CHANNEL, AMC SERIES, IT'S NOW IN ITS THIRD SEASON AND THEY'RE BASED ON YOU AND YOUR FATHER'S BOOKS.

I AM INTRIGUED BY THE TRANSITION FROM THE PRINTED PAGE TO FILM AND ONE THING I HEARD, TELL ME IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT, THAT THE WOMAN WHO PLAYS BERNADETTE, HER NAME IS JESSICA MATTEN, HUGGED YOU AND SAID, "THANK YOU FOR CREATING THIS CHARACTER, I AM HER, I LOVE HER, IT'S THE BEST CHARACTER I'VE EVER GOTTEN TO DO."

WHAT A TRIBUTE.

>>ANNE: IT WAS.

THAT WAS AT THE OPENING, I GUESS THEY CALL IT THE PREVIEW, OF SEASON ONE, AND MOST OF THE CAST WERE THERE, AND GEORGE R.R.

MARTIN WAS THERE, AND ROBERT REDFORD HAD BEEN THERE EARLIER AND I THINK HIS ENERGY HAD DISSIPATED, BUT ANYWAY, IT WAS REALLY WONDERFUL TO MEET THEM.

I'M SO PROUD OF THE WAY THEY'VE INCORPORATED SO MUCH NAVAJO, TRUE ELEMENTS OF THE NAVAJO CULTURE WITHOUT EXPLOITING IT.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>ANNE: AND ALSO HOW MANY NATIVE WRITERS THEY'VE USED AND A NATIVE CAST.

>>LORENE: IN AND OFF SCREEN, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT BEHIND THEM.

AND ALSO I ALSO WANT TO TRIBUTE GEORGE R.R.

MARTIN, ALSO WITH ROBERT REDFORD AS LIKE BENEFACTORS, PEOPLE WHO SAW THAT THIS WAS NEEDED AND THAT IT WOULD BE DONE RIGHT.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE THE SCENERY IS SPECTACULAR, YOU USE NATIVE TALENT OFF AND ON SCREEN, IT'S KIND OF ESSENTIAL, IT'S A REAL PICTURE.

I DON'T KNOW, BUT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY ASKED PEOPLE WHO SAY, WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR DAD'S DESK.

OKAY, SO YOUR FATHER HAD MANY, MANY FRIENDS AMONG THE NAVAJO AND FELT BECAUSE HE'D GONE TO INDIAN SCHOOLS UNTIL WHAT, HE WAS 8TH GRADE?

>>ANNE: I THINK IT WAS THE 8TH GRADE.

WHENEVER THEY WERE STARTING HIGH SCHOOL BACK IN OKLAHOMA IN THE 1920S.

>>LORENE: SO HE WAS COMPLETELY, THERE WAS NO, THIS WAS NOT AN ALIEN NATION, ALIEN PEOPLE, HE'D GROWN UP WITH THEM, THEY WERE ALL FRIENDS, SO HE COULD SEE THE CULTURE JUST SIMPLY WITHOUT HAVING TO ROMANTICIZE IT OR DEMONIZE IT, IT WAS JUST, HERE'S MY FRIEND.

>>ANNE: I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU, BUT THIS YEAR, 2025, WOULD HAVE BEEN DAD'S 100TH BIRTHDAY.

>>LORENE: WELL, OKAY.

>>ANNE: I'VE BEEN TALKING, I'VE BEEN GOING ON BOOK TOUR FOR SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE , BUT I'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT MORE ABOUT HIM.

I THINK IT'S JUST SUCH A MILESTONE TO THINK THAT SOMEONE WHO WAS BORN 100 YEARS AGO WROTE STORIES THAT HAVE BEEN TURNED INTO TELEVISION TODAY, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY QUITE REMARKABLE.

I'M ALWAYS HONORED WHEN I HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT MY WORK BECAUSE IT GIVES ME A CHANCE THEN TO TALK ABOUT ITS ORIGINS, WHICH WAS WITH MY FATHER, OF COURSE.

>>LORENE: YES.

NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR FATHER'S DESK.

BECAUSE, WELL, JUST A MINUTE, WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH ANNE HILLERMAN ABOUT HER FAMOUS FATHER, ALSO A WRITER, TONY HILLERMAN.

THERE WAS A DESK AT WHICH HE HAD DONE MOST OF HIS WRITING AND SO WHERE IS IT NOW?

>>ANNE: WELL, I LOVE TO TELL THIS STORY.

SO MY DAD'S FIRST DESK WAS AN OLD ROLL-TOP DESK THAT HE HAD WHEN OUR FAMILY LIVED IN SANTA FE AND THEN WE MOVED TO ALBUQUERQUE, AND AFTER A WHILE, DAD'S BOOKS STARTED SELLING VERY WELL.

SO HE AND MOM DECIDED THEY WOULD BUILD A NICER HOUSE, SO THEY MOVED DOWN TO THE NORTH VALLEY, MY MOM WAS A WONDERFUL GARDENER.

THEY BOUGHT A PLACE, I MEAN, IT WASN'T A MANSION, BUT IT WAS DOWN THERE WHERE THERE HAD BEEN FARMING, SO MY MOM WAS SO HAPPY BECAUSE SHE COULD GROW THINGS.

AND DAD, FOR THE FIRST TIME, HAD AN OFFICE INSTEAD OF HAVING AN OFFICE IN THE BEDROOM.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>ANNE: AND SO HE GOT A NEW DESK AND THIS DESK WAS TWO PARTS, IT WAS BIG AND IT WAS BEAUTIFUL AND HE LOVED IT AND I THINK HE WROTE MAYBE HIS LAST SIX OR SEVEN OR EIGHT BOOKS THERE.

SO THEN WHEN HE PASSED AWAY THE WOMAN, AND I WAS THE TRUSTEE AND I WAS IN CHARGE OF SELLING THE HOUSE, THE WOMAN WHO BOUGHT THE HOUSE SAID, YOU KNOW I'M A FAN OF TONY HILLERMAN AND THAT DESK FITS SO WELL IN THE SPACE WOULD YOU JUST LEAVE IT HERE.

I SAID SURE, SO WE LEFT IT THERE, AND THEN SHE SOLD THE HOUSE TO SOMEONE ELSE AND THAT WOMAN USED THAT DESK FOR A WHILE, AND THEN SHE SAID, I'M GOING TO BE REMODELING AND MY REMODELING PLAN DOES NOT INCLUDE ROOM FOR THIS DESK.

SO MY DAD HAD A WONDERFUL NEIGHBOR WHO WORKED WITH HIM AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO AND ANYWAY, THAT NEIGHBOR SAID, LET ME HELP YOU FIND A HOME FOR THIS DESK.

SO WE WORKED ON IT TOGETHER AND EVENTUALLY MADE CONTACTS WITH THE NAVAJO NATION AND THE WOMAN WHO WAS THE ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE NAVAJO MUSEUM WAS DELIGHTED THAT THE DESK WAS BEING OFFERED TO HER.

SHE SENT UP TWO TRUCKS BECAUSE IT WAS HUGE AND HAD ALL THESE PARTS, AND TWO VERY STRONG YOUNG NAVAJO MEN WHO PACKED IT UP AND THEN WE HAD BREAKFAST BURRITOS AND COFFEE TOGETHER, AND NOW IT'S AT THE NAVAJO NATION MUSEUM.

I DON'T THINK IT'S ON DISPLAY YET BUT IN WINDOW ROCK, AND THE MUSEUM DIRECTOR SAID THAT SHE WOULD LOVE TO PUT TOGETHER AN EXHIBIT ABOUT MY FATHER'S WORK AND THEN SEGUE INTO THE WAY I'VE CONTINUED THIS SERIES.

>>LORENE: OH, THAT'S WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: I WAS JUST SO, SO THRILLED TO SEE IT GO TO SUCH A GOOD HOME.

>>LORENE: THERE'S ANOTHER THING ABOUT YOUR DAD I FIND MOST CHARMING.

HE WAS GIVEN THE NAVAJO NAME, WHAT WAS YOUR FATHER'S GIVEN NAVAJO NAME?

>>ANNE: OKAY, DON'T TELL HIM THAT I TOLD YOU, IT WAS, "MAN WHO'S AFRAID OF HIS HORSE."

AND IT WAS BECAUSE THEY HAD ASKED HIM TO BE IN THE NAVAJO NATION PARADE IN WINDOW ROCK AND HE SAID, OH SURE AND WHEN HE GOT THERE HE REALIZED THEY EXPECTED HIM TO RIDE THIS HORSE AND SO HE LOOKED AT THE HORSE AND THE HORSE LOOKED AT DAD, AND THEN DAD SAID, "YOU THINK I COULD BE IN A CONVERTIBLE" I THINK MISS NAVAJO WAS IN A CONVERTIBLE, SO IT WAS OK. >>LORENE: ALSO OKLAHOMA ADOPTED HAS ADOPTED HIM AS A FAVORITE SON, WERE THERE CEREMONIES AT THE 100TH BIRTHDAY?

>>ANNE: YES.

THANK YOU FOR ASKING.

MY DAD GREW UP IN A LITTLE TOWN IN POTTAWATOMIE COUNTY, OKLAHOMA.

SO THE PUBLIC LIBRARY IN SHAWNEE, WHICH IS THE SEAT OF POTTAWATOMIE COUNTY, HAD A BIG CELEBRATION IN HONOR OF DAD'S 100TH BIRTHDAY AND THEY HAD A PLAQUE THAT WAS NAMING HIM, I THINK IT WAS AN OKLAHOMA LITERARY LEGEND.

AND THE FRIENDS OF THE OKLAHOMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEM AND I THINK ANOTHER, MAYBE THE OFFICIAL OKLAHOMA PUBLIC LIBRARY BUREAU, ANYWAY, THEY ALL GOT TOGETHER AND IT WAS QUITE A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL EVENT.

AND THE TOWN WHERE DAD GREW UP, SACRED HEART, HAD A BENEDICTINE MONASTERY AND THEY HAD A LITTLE CHURCH.

MY DAD'S PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS WERE STRONGLY CATHOLIC AND THERE WAS A LITTLE CATHOLIC CHURCH THERE.

AND SO THE PRIEST WHO'D BEEN THE RECTOR THERE CAME TO THE CEREMONY AND OFFERED A LITTLE PRAYER AND THEN AFTERWARDS, HE TOOK ME TO SACRED HEART.

I GOT TO SEE THE BAPTISMAL FONT WHERE MY FATHER WAS BAPTIZED, IT WAS LIKE A WOODEN, BEAUTIFUL LITTLE WOODEN THING, IT WAS GREAT.

>>LORENE: OH, HOW LOVELY.

>>ANNE: I JUST FELT SO BLESSED IS PROBABLY THE WORD, TO JUST BE ABLE TO BE THERE AND TO REALIZE HOW MUCH THOSE PEOPLE IN OKLAHOMA ALSO TREASURED MY DAD.

THAT WAS REALLY HIS HOME UNTIL HE GOT A CHANCE TO COME TO NEW MEXICO WHEN HE WAS, I GUESS, IN HIS LATE 20S.

>>LORENE: AND HOW DID HE COME TO NEW MEXICO?

>>ANNE: OH, WELL, HE'D HAD A CAREER AS A JOURNALIST, AND HE'D BEEN WORKING FOR UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL, AND THEY HAD AN OPENING FOR A BUREAU CHIEF IN SANTA FE, SO THEY ASKED DAD IF HE WOULD BE WILLING TO MOVE TO SANTA FE AND BE THE BUREAU CHIEF, AND HE SAID, OH, SURE, I'D BE GLAD TO.

THEN WHEN HE GOT TO SANTA FE, HE REALIZED NOT ONLY WAS HE THE BUREAU CHIEF, HE WAS ALSO THE BUREAU.

>>LORENE: YEAH, I THINK THAT HE WORKED WITH ERNIE, THEY WORKED TOGETHER.

>>ANNE: IT COULD VERY WELL BE.

>>LORENE: THEY WERE REALLY GOOD FRIENDS.

BUT I'M SURE WHATEVER HE WAS EXPECTING, IT WAS MORE THAN THAT.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

IT WAS A WONDERFUL MOVE, I MEAN, COMING TO NEW MEXICO THAT ULTIMATELY LED DAD TO HIS JOB AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO, WHICH FINALLY GAVE HIM TIME TO TOTALLY FOCUS ON WHAT HE HAD ALWAYS WANTED TO DO, WHICH WAS TO WRITE A MYSTERY.

I MEAN, HE LOVED JOURNALISM, I DON'T MEAN TO DENIGRATE THAT, BUT I THINK SO MANY WRITERS HAVE THAT DREAM OF WRITING A NOVEL.

JOURNALISTS AND PUBLIC RELATIONS PEOPLE, ANYBODY WHO MAKES A LIVING WITH WORDS, THAT'S KIND OF THE ULTIMATE GOAL.

>>LORENE: IN MY RESEARCH, THIS MAY OR NOT BE TRUE, PLEASE LET ME KNOW, DID HE HAVE A FILE OF FILES CALLED "FIRST CHAPTERS," BECAUSE FIRST CHAPTERS ARE SO HARD TO WRITE.

>>ANNE: HE DID INDEED.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, THEY'RE ALL LIKE LITTLE SEEDS.

>>ANNE: THEY WERE LITTLE SEEDS THAT WITHERED AND THAT'S WHY THEY WERE IN THAT FILE.

THEY WERE CHAPTERS THAT HE THOUGHT WOULD LEAD TO THE REST OF THE BOOK, BUT WHEN THE BOOK WAS FINISHED, HE REALIZED, OH, WELL, IT TOOK A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, SO THEN HE WOULD GO BACK AND WRITE A DIFFERENT FIRST CHAPTER.

>>LORENE: SO WHEN YOU DECIDED TO ADOPT BERNIE, BECAUSE LEAPHORN AND CHEE, IT WAS JUST SO GOOD AND I'M SO GRATEFUL THAT YOU ADOPTED A FEMALE CHARACTER, A BRIGHT, WONDERFUL FEMALE CHARACTER WHO ISN'T FULL OF HERSELF AND WHO'S A GOOD COP AND FAIR AND HAS INTEGRITY, I MEAN, SHE'S THE WHOLE DEAL.

AND THEN TO FIND THESE ADVENTURES SHE GETS INTO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE DONE SHINE A LIGHT ON REAL THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THE SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE , THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT SOME NEW MEXICAN NATIVES ARE BEING WHISKED AWAY TO GO TO REHAB, THEY'RE TAKEN TO WELL, YOU BETTER TELL ME, THEY'RE TAKEN TO REHAB CENTERS, SOBER HOUSES.

>>ANNE: THEY CALLED THEM SOBER HOUSES, BUT THEY WERE ACTUALLY FAKE SOBER HOUSES.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, THEY WOULD GIVE THEM A BEER.

>>ANNE: AND BASICALLY KEEP THEM.

A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE FROM NEW MEXICO AND OTHER, I MEAN, THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE FROM WYOMING AND MONTANA, MOSTLY NATIVE PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE WAS MORE MONEY TO BE MADE BY EXPLOITING THEM.

SO WHEN THEY GOT TO ARIZONA, THESE CHARLATANS WOULD SIGN THEM UP AS ARIZONA RESIDENTS, GET THEM DRIVER'S LICENSES.

>>LORENE: GET THEM MEDICAID.

>>ANNE: AND THEN GET THEM, YEAH, ARIZONA MEDICAID, IT WAS A BILLION-DOLLAR SCANDAL.

IT WAS REALLY AWFUL.

AND I THINK SOME OF THESE PEOPLE DIED AND SOME OF THEM, THEY EITHER HAD TO ESCAPE OR THEY WOULD RAISE ENOUGH HELL THAT THE OPERATOR WOULD SAY, OKAY, GET OUT OF HERE, AND THEN THEY WERE HOMELESS ON THE STREETS OF PHOENIX WITH NO RESOURCES.

SO WHAT REALLY APPEALED TO ME ABOUT THAT STORY, I MEAN, IT'S AN AWFUL STORY, BUT A LOT OF THEIR RELATIVES ON THE NAVAJO NATION REALLY MISSED THEM AND THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THEM AND THEY TALKED TO THE NAVAJO POLICE AND SAID, CAN'T YOU HELP US, YOU KNOW, LAST THING WE HEARD FROM MY SISTER-IN-LAW WAS THAT MY NEPHEW WAS IN PHOENIX, AND, YOU KNOW, THEN WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM HIM ANYMORE, YOU KNOW HE'S PROBABLY STILL THERE.

SO THE NAVAJO POLICE DEPARTMENT SENT OFFICERS TO PHOENIX TO FIND THESE PEOPLE AND THEY BROUGHT A LOT OF THEM HOME.

>>LORENE: OH, THAT'S WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: AND YOU KNOW I LOVE STORIES LIKE THAT ABOUT GOOD POLICE DOING GOOD THINGS.

ONE GOOD THING ABOUT WRITING MYSTERIES IS THAT YOU GET TO KIND OF SKEW REALITY A LITTLE BIT, SO YOU CAN HAVE A HAPPIER ENDING AND SO I WAS GLAD TO KIND OF FIND SOME JUSTICE FOR SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN EXPLOITED.

>>LORENE: YEAH, BECAUSE THEY WERE DEPENDENT, THEY WERE JONESING, THEY WERE IN BAD SHAPE AND ON PURPOSE THEY WERE SET UP TO FAIL AND MAYBE TO DISAPPEAR, TRUSTING THAT IF THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, ANGLO AND RICH, THEY WOULD BE FOUND, BUT IF THEY WERE NATIVE AMERICAN AND THEY HAD DISAPPEARED BEFORE AND THE FAMILY DIDN'T KNOW, IT WOULD TAKE A LOT TO FIND THEM.

SOMEBODY HAD TO WANT TO FIND THEM, THEY HAD TO WANT TO BE FOUND.

>>ANNE: AND MEANWHILE, THE OPERATORS OF THOSE HOMES WERE JUST MAKING MONEY HAND OVER FIST.

IT WAS REALLY A SAD STORY.

>>LORENE: WHAT I LOVED WAS THAT DROID, THE YOUNG MAN, AND HIS GRANDMOTHER WENT TOGETHER.

SO THE VAN CAME TO TAKE HIM OFF TO REHAB, AND SHE WENT WITH HIM AND IT MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.

SHE'S A WONDERFUL CHARACTER.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU.

SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT THEY REALLY LIKED HER AND I DO TOO.

I THINK SHE'S ACTUALLY PRETTY TYPICAL OF A LOT OF NAVAJO GRANDMOTHERS WHO I'VE MET.

I MEAN, THEY ARE STRONG WOMEN AND THEY ARE THE MATRIARCHS OF THOSE FAMILIES AND THOSE KIDS BETTER WATCH OUT, BUT IT'S DONE WITH LOVE.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

THE VILLAIN WAS THIS WOMAN NAMED BEA.

OH MY GOSH, YOU REMINDS ME OF NURSE RATCHET.

YOUR CHARACTERS ARE SO WELL-DEVELOPED, THE SUBPLOTS ARE WOVEN TOGETHER BRILLIANTLY, BUT WHAT I HAVE TO TELL YOU WAS THAT IT'S A PAGE-TURNER.

THERE'S SO MUCH ACTION GOING ON, AND THERE'S STUFF ABOUT THE RADIOACTIVE WASTE ON NAVAJO LANDS AND THESE I DON'T KNOW, PROSELYTIZING CHRISTIAN SECT THAT COMES TO MEDITATE THERE, BUT THEY HAVE A NEFARIOUS PURPOSE THEMSELVES.

OH MY GOODNESS, IT'S VERY COMPLICATED, THANK YOU.

>>ANNE: ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE WAS FIGURING OUT HOW TO WEAVE THOSE TWO STORIES TOGETHER AND FINALLY IT DAWNED ON ME THAT THE SOLSTICE ITSELF WOULD BE A WONDERFUL SOLAR EVENT.

THAT WAS WHAT BROUGHT THE CULT TO THE NAVAJO NATION AND THAT'S WHAT GIVES DARLENE MANUELITO SUCH LONG DAYS TO ACTUALLY FIND THIS WOMAN WHO SHE'S WORRIED ABOUT.

SO IT KIND OF ALL CAME TOGETHER IN A WAY I WOULDN'T HAVE EXPECTED.

>>LORENE: NO, IT'S SO SYMBOLIC ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE LONGEST DAY OF THE YEAR, PLENTY OF TIME TO DEVELOP ALL THESE SUBPLOTS.

AND THE BAD GUYS WERE REALLY BAD, IT WAS REALLY GOOD TO SEE THEM GET CUT OUT.

WE JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT, I'D LOVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE WORKING ON NOW.

THIS IS YOUR TENTH BOOK, DO YOU GET A SABBATICAL?

>>ANNE: OH, NO, I DON'T GET A SABBATICAL.

>>LORENE: THIS WAS A BREATHER FOR YOU.

TELL ME, OH GOSH, IN A MINUTE, TELL ME ABOUT TONY HILLERMAN'S LANDSCAPE .

>>ANNE: TONY HILLERMAN'S LANDSCAPE WAS THE BOOK THAT LED ME TO SWITCH FROM WRITING NONFICTION TO WRITING FICTION.

I LOVE THIS BOOK, THIS BOOK TOOK ME TO THE NAVAJO NATION, PLACES THAT MY DAD LOVED.

I MET SO MANY PEOPLE AND LEARNED SO MUCH AND THEN WHEN THE BOOK CAME OUT, I LEARNED HOW DEEP AND HEARTFELT FANS FELT ABOUT DAD'S CHARACTERS AND ABOUT HIS WORK.

SO MANY PEOPLE SAID TO ME, TOLD ME HOW MUCH THEY LOVED HIS STORIES, HOW THEY WERE DEVASTATED THAT HE HAD DIED AND THAT THE STORIES WOULD END AND IT MADE ME REALIZE THAT I HAD THAT SAME KIND OF HEARTBREAK, NOT ONLY FOR MY DAD, BUT FOR THE END OF THE SERIES.

>>LORENE: CHEE AND LEAPHORN AND BERNADETTE.

I'M SO GLAD YOU ELEVATED HER.

SO ARE YOU TAKING A LITTLE BREAK, THIS IS 10.

>>ANNE: I'M TAKING A TINY BREAK.

USUALLY MY BOOKS ARE DUE TO THE PUBLISHER IN JUNE AND THIS YEAR IT'S NOT DUE UNTIL DECEMBER.

>>LORENE: OH, GOOD.

>>ANNE: SO I HAVE A FEW MORE MONTHS TO WORK ON THIS NEW BOOK.

IT'S GOING TO BE SET AT LEAST PARTLY IN CANYON DE CHELLY.

>>LORENE: OH BEAUTIFUL.

>>ANNE: IT'S REALLY ONE OF MY FAVORITE, FAVORITE PLACES IN THE NAVAJO WORLD.

SO I'VE MADE IT, ONE OF MY PROCESSES IN WRITING IS TO ACTUALLY GO TO THE PLACES WHERE THE STORIES ARE SET.

>>LORENE: OF COURSE.

AND FOR A WHILE, YOU COULDN'T GO ON THE NAVAJO, WHEN COVID HIT, THEY HAD TO SHUT DOWN BECAUSE THEY'D BEEN SO FEROCIOUSLY HIT BY IT.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

BUT NOW THINGS ARE GEARING BACK UP.

SO ANYWAY, I HAD BEEN TO CANYON DE CHELLY BEFORE, I MADE A RECENT TRIP, AND I'M GOING BACK IN THE FALL BECAUSE THE BOOK IS GOING TO BE SET IN THE FALL.

>>LORENE: OH, GOOD.

>>ANNE: YEAH, I'M EXCITED.

>>LORENE: WELL, THANK YOU, ANNE HILLERMAN, OUR GUEST.

READERS WILL WANT TO KNOW, YOU COULD REALLY START ANYWHERE, BUT YOU COULD START WITH THE FIRST BOOK, SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER , GO ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH BOOK NUMBER 10, THE SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE .

YOU'RE A GREAT WRITER, AND I'M SO HAPPY YOU'RE HERE AND YOU ARE SUCH A GIFT TO NEW MEXICO, THANK YOU.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU, LORENE, IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO TALK WITH YOU.

>>LORENE: I FEEL THE SAME WAY.

AND AUDIENCE, IT'S A PLEASURE TO TALK WITH YOU.

I'M LORENE MILLS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM ♪ MUSIC