♪ KATE SULLIVAN: She is one dynamic speaker and devout Christian who has captured the minds and inspired the hearts of women across the globe.

BETH MOORE: If you're still breathing, there's calling on your life... KATE: Millions of Christians have poured over her work and thousands have packed sold out arenas to be in her presence.

Her name is Beth Moore.

BETH: The Bible studies got to be enormously popular.

More so than I would've dreamed, planned, or asked for- or could deal with.

KATE: Today we're dining at Beth's favorite restaurant in Houston, Texas, where she's sharing the food she loves and a taste of her own incredible journey.

You knew that you were on a new and distinct path- BETH: One hundred percent.

KATE: But did you know what that path was?

BETH: Absolutely not.

KATE: We're then hearing how her devotion to serving the Church turned into an empire.

And then, what happened when she had her own test of faith?

Using her platform to speak out, she found many turned against her.

BETH: I would've told you that I was just about as far to the right as you could get, but that did not turn out to be true.

♪ KATE: What's better in life than a bottle of wine, great food and an amazing conversation?

My name is Kate Sullivan and I am the host of To Dine For .

I'm a journalist, a foodie, a traveler, with an appetite for the stories of people who are hungry for more.

Dreamers.

Visionaries.

Artists.

Those who hustle hard in the direction they love.

I travel with them to their favorite restaurant, to hear how they did it.

This show is a toast to them and their American dream.

KATE: To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... ANNOUNCER: There are people in your life who count on you for what matters most.

American National agents are close to home and committed to our communities.

They'll help you find the right coverage for you, your family, even your farm and business.

You can learn more at americannational.com.

♪ KATE SULLIVAN: Today I'm in Houston, Texas on my way into a restaurant called Taste of Texas.

It's the woman who chose this as her favorite restaurant that I can't wait for you to meet.

She is a dreamer and a visionary, and her name is Beth Moore.

Aw, it is so nice to meet you Beth!

BETH MOORE: It's an honor.

We are so glad to be with you today.

KATE: It feels appropriate that my guest today lives in Houston, because this great city, and Beth Moore, both manage to welcome strangers with open arms.

Houston is a place for dreamers.

In the nineteenth century, scrappy men and women rolled up their sleeves and transformed the muddy frontier town into a capital for commerce.

Today it's the fourth biggest city in America, known for industry, research, culture, faith, and of course, food.

There is no better place to indulge in all the Lone Star State has to offer, than at a restaurant called Taste of Texas.

KATE: [sighs] Ahh.

BETH MOORE: Yes.

KATE: Isn't it nice to sit down?

BETH MOORE: It's wonderful.

It's just wonderful.

KATE: Taste of Texas first opened its doors in 1977, thanks to the Hendee family.

Decades later they have refused to make the wildly popular steakhouse a chain.

Instead, it's a one of a kind gem, a staple of Houston, and still a family business.

EDD HENDEE: Owned and operated by my wife and I, and that's why we're here everyday.

And we love it, and it's our business.

It's kind of like- I would describe it as the family farm.

KATE: This award winning steakhouse now boasts a cookbook, a store, and even its own museum, detailing the history of the state.

But what makes Taste of Texas really stand out, is the small town charm it brings to the big city.

EDD HENDEE: I'll stand at the front door and people will come in and say, "We're so glad to be here."

And I say, "Well you're the whole reason we got out of bed this morning."

We're actually in the hospitality business.

We're in the celebration business.

We serve steaks on the side.

KATE: And celebrate we will.

Today we're enjoying fried shrimp filled with Monterey Jack cheese and a slice of mild jalapeño, with a delicious cilantro cream sauce on the side.

Next comes the signature au gratin potatoes.

Fresh potatoes are boiled, sliced, and baked with cheese and cream to prepare this most decadent dish.

And of course, steak is the main event.

We're having the six ounce center-cut fillet, certified Angus beef, aged 45 to 60 days for the ideal flavor and tenderness cooked to perfection.

Over this hearty Texas meal, I'm learning all about a fixture of Christian Evangelicalism, Beth Moore.

KATE: Of all the restaurants in Houston, and there are some fabulous restaurants in Houston, Texas, why did you choose this one as your favorite spot?

BETH MOORE: Well, for one thing, it is iconic Texas.

When I began to think, where could we host you, that you could really taste a lot of Texana, this would be it, because it really is not only a restaurant, it is its own museum of sorts.

KATE: It's enormous!

Beth: Oh my goodness, and and my family has so much history here.

We've been coming here for so long- three generations, so... KATE: History, just some amazing memories.

BETH: Yes.

KATE: There's something about someone's favorite restaurant where life happens.

BETH: Yes.

KATE: You know, where you make your memories, where you celebrate great things in life.

BETH: Yes.

KATE: It's a very special place.

You grew up in Arkadelphia, Arkansas.

BETH: I certainly did, you've got your homework done.

KATE: Arkadoo.

BETH: How do you know it?

KATE: Because I lived in Arkansas for five years.

I was a local news reporter.

I know Arkadelphia very well.

(laughs) BETH: I am astounded.

That looks delicious.

CODY: They sure are.

These are jalapeño stuffed shrimp with a cilantro cream sauce, stuffed with Monterey Jack cheese.

KATE: Oh a lot of stuffed and stuffed and fried, I love it.

BETH: Well, and jalapeño.

You need to understand, Kate, you can't come eat with us in Houston without having a jalapeño.

KATE: I can't wait, this looks awesome.

BETH: This is the way it goes.

Thank you so much Cody.

CODY: Y'all enjoy.

KATE: Thank you.

BETH: Oh, you care if I bless the food?

KATE: Please.

BETH: I'd be so- I'd be so delighted to do that.

Lord, we are so grateful for such blessings and- and gifts that you've given us, and- and for the pleasure to meet and the pleasure to have good conversation.

Make it- make it a blessing father, cause people to, uh, find some delight in it, and some really good food.

In, uh, Jesus' name, amen.

KATE: Amen.

BETH: Oh by all means... KATE: Thank you.

This is incredible.

So this is the jalapeño stuffed shrimp.

BETH: Exactly.

KATE: Wow.

BETH: Now, I- I got us, I want you to know, more food than you can possibly eat.

But, still, it was just imperative that we be able to have the taste.

Now you wanna put some of that sauce on it.

KATE: I sure do.

The cilantro cream sauce.

True to her maiden name, Beth Green was born in Green Bay, Wisconsin to an army major and a homemaker.

But the family soon moved, and Beth and her four siblings grew up down south, in Arkadelphia, Arkansas, their ancestral home.

So you're an army brat.

You've kind of traveled a little bit of everywhere... BETH: Yes.

KATE: ...but Arkansas is definitely home.

BETH: Arkansas is home, but I- I have a very complicated background there because I was raised in a very, very unstable home.

And that is not to say that there weren't wonderful things, and that I wasn't loved in my family.

I certainly was.

But, when you are abused inside your home, it has a way, especially in very young childhood, of offsetting all of these wonderful, marvelous things.

And when you don't know who to tell and you don't know who to turn to, and you're growing up in this environment and it's all secrets and shadows, it is extremely difficult.

My church life meant everything.

My home was not safe for me, but my church was.

And that's not always the case, certainly, by any stretch of the imagination, but it was true for me.

I don't know why, I've thought over and over why in the world I would have believed what I heard there, when my life, behind the shadows and behind closed doors and in secret, was so different.

But I did.

I guess that the Lord just gave me the gift of faith for it.

KATE: Church was your safe harbor, it was a safe haven.

BETH: Absolutely.

KATE: It was everything to you and you went and, and turned your entire face towards church.

BETH: Absolutely.

Something else really fun, and because I want so much to offset the part of my upbringing that was tremendously hard, is that my dad ran the local movie theater and the drive-in.

KATE: Oh how fun.

BETH: And so that is a heck of a way to grow up.

KATE: Free movies.

BETH: I know a lot of lines, because in those days a movie would come and it would stay with us, you know, it might be a week.

And so we would see it over, and over, and over, so, so many great things, and then some really hard things.

KATE: Beth and her family moved to Houston when she was sixteen.

She attended what is now Texas State University where she studied political science and served as chaplain of her sorority.

But it wasn't until after her freshman year of college that she realized, without a doubt, that God was calling her, when she volunteered to take a group of middle school girls to bible camp.

BETH: So they drove us there with this- oh I guess about half a dozen, um, sixth grade girls, and it was there at that camp, I don't know another way to put this, but early one morning toward the end of that week, I was by myself and- listen, if I were gonna make this story up I would put it in a different place than the lavatory, I would- but while I am in there, I am about to brush my teeth, and I have something happen that has never ever been repeated in that same way.

I felt such a sudden presence of God around me, not in me, around me.

There was no noise, I did not see anything, I did not hear anything.

But something so vivid happened to me- oh that is beautiful Cody.

CODY: Definitely.

And your au gratin potatoes.

KATE: Amazing, this is amazing.

BETH: [laughs] Yes, absolutely.

KATE: I- I, uh, you know, gosh, you know, pardon this interruption for this amazing food.

BETH: No, isn't it marvelous?

KATE: It really is.

Let's take our first bite here.

Oh wow.

BETH: I mean, it's just perfection.

KATE: It really is.

Oh and then these fried, fried onions on the top.

Ah, amazing.

Okay, so, you've taken these sixth graders to camp... BETH: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

I've had this weird experience... KATE: You're in the bathroom.

BETH: ...

In the bathroom!

KATE: You're white-knuckling the sink.

BETH: His presence, uh huh.

KATE: Yes, and you're feeling God.

BETH: Uh huh.

KATE: And what is he saying?

BETH: Nothing.

KATE: Nothing?

BETH: Absolutely nothing.

But I'll tell you, and in fact, when the moment passed, I stood there and thought to myself, what does one do next?

Because, what in the world was that?

And so, you know, I brush my teeth- and I, I'm just, it makes me laugh every time I think about it because I brushed my teeth and spit, you know, what- [laughs] BETH: At the same sink where I'd sensed the divine presence- I'm just gonna spit in the sink- KATE: But what did you, at that moment, what did you think that was?

Was that just a nod you were in the right direction?

BETH: I knew it was the Lord.

A call comes all sorts of different ways.

Even in the scriptures Genesis to Revelation, there's no one way, there's no one paradigm, uh, for a calling.

But when I've been asked what word would you put with it: ownership.

I would tell you that what I knew, cause I knew, my entire future had just changed.

KATE: You knew that you were on a new and distinct path.

BETH: One-hundred percent.

KATE: But did you know what that path was?

BETH: Absolutely not.

KATE: Okay.

So you knew you were headed in the right direction but you were open to finding out what it was.

BETH: Oh yes.

And- and that took years.

I'm not certain now, and so at that point what I said to the Lord was, then, "I surrender.

You got it.

Whatever you want."

But I- I didn't know what to do, cause there was no direction with it, except it, it would've been the- those two words: follow me.

It was like "I'll show you.

You go where I go."

KATE: Beth found someone to share in her life when she married Keith Moore.

Their family grew with daughters Amanda and Melissa, and Beth threw herself into their local Baptist church by teaching aerobics, choreographed to contemporary Christian music.

She couldn't have known where that class would take her next.

BETH: When I was then in my mid-20's, a woman that was a speaker at my church, that by this time I'm getting to know... KATE: Mm-hmm.

BETH: She asks at a women's conference, "Would you come and do a breakout session, and would you talk about Christian fitness in that breakout?"

Yes I will.

She came to it and stayed, and she said to me, "I don't know what your plans are," but she said, "I suspected and now I know," she said, "Imma tell you right now, you are called to speak."

KATE: When you started to do Bible studies and have groups of women meet, and you started to see some of those crowds grow, you must've realized, wow maybe this is a talent of mine, maybe this- I am onto something.

BETH: It would take me a while to think, God is being very purposeful, and this is what he's got me doing.

So I'm talking about- I guess there's been 20 of them now.

It still is what I love best, but my love is to watch a group of people move from A then over to B then over to C. KATE: A true teacher.

BETH: Yes, yes.

KATE: So, you know... BETH: For better or for worse.

KATE: ...People called you a Bible teacher, Evangelical, you know... BETH: Heretic (laughs).

KATE: (laughs) But really, at the heart of what you do, do you call yourself a teacher?

BETH: Absolutely.

KATE: This humble teacher soon became a staple of Bible studies around the country.

She founded her own interdenominational ministry called Living Proof, she sold out arenas for her conferences, and across the world she became a leading voice of faith.

KATE: At some point in your Bible teaching, and the crowds are getting a little bit bigger, and then they're getting quite big, right?

BETH: Yes, yes.

KATE: And, did you ever get any pushback from the male leadership of churches wondering to themselves- BETH: Oh, yes.

KATE: "Hmm, is a woman supposed to be A, in this position- BETH: Yes.

KATE: And this now has become a position of leadership and power.

BETH: Oh yes.

I- I've said so many times, I came up against, your basic sexism, where I knew there was a very big difference between being a woman in the church and a man in the church.

I knew that.

I did not run into full-fledged misogyny until I was in the larger sphere where my ministry then began to take me further and further out, and put me on notice to people that were not happy about it and were not- didn't feel I was qualified.

And Kate, I'm- I'm sure I wasn't.

I was not academically taught, I was not seminary trained, I was a woman that just- I loved reading commentary, I loved studying, I loved research.

But the Bible studies got to be enormously popular.

More so than I would've dreamed, planned, or asked for- or could deal with.

KATE: That was not a goal of yours, to sell out arenas... BETH: Absolutely not.

What is my sweet spot?

In a classroom with a markerboard.

That- that's what I love.

When I got out into the larger sphere, and I began to see myself talked about, it was like, I had no place to even put it.

I come from a very, very conservative part of the Christian world, but I was raised where there were still times that the pastor might ask a woman to speak at something or- so when I got out there, and it was like I had no business even teaching women?

KATE: Mmm.

So has it changed how you feel about women's role in the church?

BETH: Oh, oh, yes.

My thing is that women are at least 50 percent of our Christian communities or churches.

That's a lot of humans right there.

KATE: Mm-hmm.

BETH: What I saw happening, and I still will say this, um, over and over again, is, we- there begin to be such a hard pull to the right, to the extreme right, that I began to realize that women were not even gonna be able to do what I did.

That- and it was like, you- wait!

These are gifted women.

KATE: Mm-hmm.

BETH: I am a local church person.

That's just always been part of my life, I suspect it always will be, until I die.

I just love that part of community life.

But, for a lot of women, that especially- so the world I know best, remember, is Conservative Evangelicals, pretty far over.

I would've told you that I was just about as far to the right as you could get, but that did not turn out to be true.

There was a whole- there was a whole space right here that I thought, "whoa, I did not know you guys existed."

This was not the world I was raised in.

This was not how it was, and again, it was sexist enough.

This was, to me, objectionable.

This was, "oh no, I... protest this."

KATE: Beth was never politically vocal until October 2016, when the infamous Donald Trump Access Hollywood tape surfaced.

Beth heard the man who would soon become president casually describe sexually assaulting women, and she could no longer be silent.

BETH: When I say it was instantaneous- I lost immediate favor.

There is just absolutely no world, that you could come from my background, none, and then grow up with faith in God to value a woman's life, put her life back together, give her dignity she didn't have, and not take up for those women.

So, here's this, I- it wasn't like I sat there and went "should I do this or not?"

Because- KATE: It was worth the barrage of bullets.

It was worth- BETH: It was all I could do.

It's- it was the only thing.

KATE: When you think of Southern Baptist churches, many of them have had a Beth Moore Bible study taught in their church, right?

BETH: Yes.

KATE: And so that is how you have always identified, as Southern Baptist, is that- BETH: Yes.

KATE: You made the very difficult decision to leave the Southern Baptist Church... BETH: Yeah.

KATE: Why did you make that?

BETH: I mean, it- I gotta tell you, there really- I could not give you words too dramatic for the pain of this.

When I talk about Southern Baptist Convention, or the SBC, it certainly is not speaking of all people that are Southern Baptists and all their churches, and so I was at a place where there was so much that I was seeing and it was not just limited to, uh, women's issues, but it was, it also involved, um, issues of race, and it involved issues of, uh, what I found to be a very disturbing Christian nationalism.

KATE: The Southern Baptist leadership did not align with what you believe.

BETH: The part of it that was most powerfully influential to me, and what I felt like was most obvious to the public, I would say that that was true.

I fought it because I truly loved it so much.

I felt that Trump brought out the absolute worst in Conservative Evangelicalism, and I have been asked so many times, Beth, what in the world do you want from the SBC?

And, I will get a chance to say it to you, prove me wrong.

Show the world that you do not have this deep-rooted racism.

Show the world that you really are not Christian nationalists.

Show the world that you really are not misogynists.

Because I'm gonna tell you something, if it takes somebody, in a very public way, walking away, to say something's got to change.

These were not the people I knew.

KATE: Along with leaving the SBC, Beth knew she had to part ways with her beloved longtime publisher LifeWay, due to its Southern Baptist affiliation.

That left her back at square one, with just 15 employees at Living Proof Ministries, and her 20th Bible study to produce.

Let me ask you this, where do you go from here?

BETH: We are back in that zone where we can... count on nothing- BETH: -but God.

KATE: You're in a startup.

But the thrill of it, I can't even tell you, that this new Bible study, that we can't keep on our ridiculous shelves, that it just keeps going.

I've got chill bumps again Kate.

I've had a number of Southern Baptist churches that have called and said, "we'd love- we'd love to have you here if you would come back and serve at some point," and you know- KATE: You had a story of reinvention, and you are living a story of reinvention.

BETH: Absolutely living it.

I feel remembered by God.

I wanted to finish strong.

When you've been in ministry as long as I have, which really officially began when I was 18 so this many decades later, and to be at a place where every invitation is like, "they- they invited me?

They want me to come?"

KATE: Yeah.

BETH: You know what I'm saying?

KATE: Yes.

BETH: Every- everything is a blessing.

Everything is a gift.

Pulling up in the parking lot- and we'd not gotten to a place where we had forgotten the Lord- but I'm just saying, we will not have a ministry if he does not come through, and he just keeps coming through.

KATE: When people hear the name Beth Moore, what do you want them to think?

BETH: I hope they'll think she- she loved Jesus.

KATE: Full stop.

BETH: Full stop.

KATE: When you spend a whole life, um, learning everything you've learned, that knowledge has gotta mean something, it's gotta count for something, affect who we are as people, and if it doesn't, or you turned a blind eye to that, um, you're not true to yourself.

BETH: That's right.

I mean and that's what we've got isn't it?

That we lay our head on our pillow and, to the best that we know how, we've lived genuine lives, and that we didn't sell out.

It's just not worth it.

You still gotta live with the person- I gotta live with the person whose mascara I put on every morning of my life Kate.

[laughs] KATE: And a magnificent job, at that.

BETH: Thank you.

KATE: Yes.

This has been such a nourishing conversation.

I appreciate it so much- your time, your talent, and your energy.

Thank you.

BETH: Well, it was a great pleasure.

KATE: What a meal with Beth Moore.

You can't say she didn't pursue her passion.

You can't say she didn't use every bit of her experience to try and help others.

From a girl who felt broken, who knows firsthand what abuse feels like, to a woman who found love, faith, and strength.

Beth is a testament to making your story count, to telling your story and to using every bit of who you are to impact the world.

And when that world seemed to turn against her, she remained true to who she is, what she believes, and a protector of the women she has always tried to champion.

♪ [triumphant music] ♪ KATE: If you would like to know more about the guests, the restaurants, and the inspiring stories of success, please visit todinefortv.com Or follow us on Facebook and Instagram at To Dine For TV.

We also have a podcast, To Dine For the podcast is available on Apple podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... ANNOUNCER: There are people in your life who count on you for what matters most.

American National agents are close to home and committed to our communities.

They'll help you find the right coverage for you, your family, even your farm and business.

You can learn more at americannational.com.

♪