- [Announcer] Production and distribution of CityClub forums an Idea Stream Public Media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.

(upbeat music) (bell rings) - Hello, and welcome to the CityClub of Cleveland, where we were devoted to conversations of consequence that helped democracy thrive.

It's Friday, April 28th and I'm Maria Foschia, president and CEO of Lutheran Metropolitan Ministry.

I'm pleased to introduce the 2023 Charles RC Annual Forum on Reentry Beyond Ban the Box, why it's time to rethink hiring.

Each year approximately 35 individuals return to Cayuga County after serving time in prisoner jail.

These individuals face collateral sanctions, which are state laws and administrative rules that can limit a person's ability to find employment, housing, and more worsening the situation employers are hesitant to hire somebody with a record due to false assumptions and misconceptions.

However, the data shows that being employed post-release provides much needed income and purpose and in turn reduces the chances of returning citizen will recidivate.

Still the conversation is beginning to shift in response to a deeper understanding of the racial inequities embedded in the criminal legal system.

And the growing need for employees in hospitality and other service sectors.

Today we'll hear what work remains to demonstrate the immense value that returning citizens can and do provide.

Our speaker today is Andre Ward, the associate Vice President of the David Rothenberg Center for Public Policy at the Fortune Society, whose mission is to to support successful reentry from incarceration and promote alternatives to incarceration, thus strengthening the fabric of our communities.

In his role, Mr. Ward oversees advocacy efforts for individuals who face barriers due to past involvement in the criminal legal system and fights for a more just and equitable criminal justice system.

He's a social worker, a motivational speaker, a life skills coach, and the executive producer and co-host for "On The Count," the criminal and prison justice report that airs on 99.5 WBAI radio in New York City.

First we will hear from Mr. Ward, then he will lead a panel conversation featuring additional voices who are on the ground doing this critical work.

With us on stage for this panel conversation is Simeon Best director of the Cayuga County Office of Reentry, Robin Turner, a civic engagement strategist at Cleveland VOTES and Brandon Veres executive chef at Marble Room Steaks and Raw Bar, which is located just steps from our conversation here today.

If you have questions for our speaker or panelists, you can text it to 330-541-5794.

That's 330-541-5794.

You can also tweet your questions @thecityclub and the CityClub staff will try to work it into the second half of the program.

Members and Friends of the CityClub of Cleveland, please join me in welcoming Andre Ward.

(audience claps) - Good afternoon.

How's everybody feeling?

- [Audience] Good.

- How's the food?

(audience laughs) You know, food is a drug, that's why they had the Food and Drug Administration.

I hope everybody stays with me and stays with us with this panel.

Really honored to be here today.

And as my name was mentioned, I'm Andre Ward.

I represent an organization called the Fortune Society.

The Fortune Society has been around for about 55 years offering reentry services and doing advocacy work for people impacted by the criminal legal system.

And we do this, as was mentioned, based on our mission to support successful reentry and to make sure that we're promoting alternatives to incarceration so as to make sure that the fabric of our communities are strengthened.

And we do this in a few ways.

One, by believing in people's capacity to change.

Hence the reason why I think all of us are here today because we believe in that.

We know that human beings have the capacity to change, but there's one thing to change and then there's another thing to make to make progress.

Everything will change.

Some of us will get older, some of us may even get younger.

We may reverse that process.

How many people would like to do that in here?

But progress is optional and at the Fortune Society we create an opportunity for people to change but also to ensure that there's space for them to progress in that change.

That's the first thing that's a part of our mission, believing in people's capacity to change and progressing in that.

The second thing that we do, which is equally as important, is believing that human beings could be involved in informing how they're being served.

So we believe in services that we offer people and we believe that those services involves building their life.

And we build people's lives by allowing them to inform us what they need based on their experiences.

We know in the reentry space, all too often people are being prescriptive in what people need.

At Fortune we look at what people need based on what they tell us, based on what they've experienced.

And we follow that guidance to offer reputable services so that they can be empowered to go on to live lives of contribution.

That's the second thing.

And the third thing that we do is we change minds.

We change minds through education and through advocacy so that we can create a fairer and more equitable and just criminal or correctional system.

That's very, very important.

So we're here today to talk about like building lives.

We're here today to talk about why it's important, as it says up here.

To rethink and to rethink, obviously to me means to reimagine what can the world look like when people who have conviction histories are given the opportunity to demonstrate that they can live a life of contribution based on being hired and being in the workplace.

Now, I share this with you, not from a textbook, although I like academia.

I share this with you as someone who is directly impacted, who served 16 years of my life in prison and I've been home now 14 years.

And what I realize is that even though I've gone to different levels of high academia currently working on my doctorate degree, I graduate next year with that.

I realize however, that even though I have ascended in academia, ascended to some degree in my career, I have a conviction history and therefore there's still stigma associated with that.

At the Fortune Society, we debunk myths.

We dispel a lot of these perspectives by hiring our mission.

And over 50% of the people at the Fortune Society have been justice impacted.

30% of whom or more are board members.

And this is for organization we have board members on it.

It's important that board members who work in organizations of reentry are comprised of people that have lived experience to inform the discussion.

Very, very important.

(audience claps) And I know that we are in April and I know that we are in second chance month.

The fact of the matter is however that many people didn't have a first chance.

And what we maintain is that while we understand what people mean by second chance, it's really about giving people an opportunity.

And I think the gentleman came up early and he spoke about, he referenced something not using like I forgot exactly what you said, but it citizens not returning citizens.

I think that was important.

It was significant because the very moment you hear returning, something happens in your brain and you start reflecting on stereotypes and perspectives and assumptions about people who have been impacted by the criminal legal system.

So I like that.

I'm gonna hold that.

I'm gonna bring that back to New York City, if that's okay.

But the point that I'm making is that we're talking about human beings having an opportunity to demonstrate their capacity to show up in the workspace as a valuable employee, just like any other human being, irrespective of their experiences of what has happened to them.

You know, in this country we are the largest jailer on the planet.

We incarcerate about 1.9 million people.

That's a lot of people, about 500,000 of whom are in state jails, state prisons or jails.

A million of whom in other places, some folk in federal prisons.

I was doing some research and based on the Department of Justice, they said about 650,000 people are released annually.

That's a lot of people.

That means those same people are coming back to our communities.

Communities that we know have a high poverty rate, a low literacy rate and have historically and even presently not received the adequate support in resources that it needs.

And when I came to this beautiful city and thanks folks for the tour, I'd like to really thank folk from Lutheran Metropolitan Ministries for giving me a nice tour of the work that they do.

I want to thank Maria and her team for their leadership and their work.

And I wanna thank CityClub of Cleveland for hosting this kind of space because these conversations had to continue to be held and elevated.

You know, one of your very own came to our city on Monday and we had the privilege of speaking with and meeting Madame Secretary Marsha Fudge.

And you know, she came to our housing space because we offer emergency transitional and permanent supportive housing to people with conviction histories and have been doing that for over 20 years.

And when she came and she met with us, she was really curious to understand what was happening.

But more importantly, she wanted to demonstrate that she's in action with advancing policy and recommendations to ensure that people were dealt with fairly when assessed to access housing.

Which is significant and which is really, really important.

We should give her a round of applause now 'cause it's very, very important.

(audience claps) And so when I think about why it's important for people to be hired, why it's important for people to be given an opportunity, I think about how successful communities can be when that happens.

I don't know what the data is here in Ohio necessarily, but I'll tell you, New York City in a place called Rikers Island, how many people have heard of that place called Rikers Island under tremendous scrutiny right now.

And we as advocates in New York City are poised to ensure that it closes by August, 2027.

(audience claps) But it costs almost over a half a million dollars to jail someone on Rikers Island for one year.

I'll say that again.

And I know the economic system here is different in terms of the cost of living is different here than New York City, 'cause it's larger, maybe two to three times larger.

My point in saying that is that investment in jailing someone for one year seems to be more important than providing 13 people with support supportive housing opportunities because that's how much it will cost to offer 13 people supportive housing, wraparound services, placement, employment training, all those things.

13 people could receive that for the amount that it costs to jail someone for one year.

It insults logic and reason.

But in New York City we do it.

And I love New York City.

I mean I'm from New York City, right?

But we're doing that.

I know Ohio has a challenge and each of you in this room are seeking and are committed to rising to occasion to challenge that and to make it right.

I see we have folk from corrections here.

Am I correct folk from corrections here?

I wanna acknowledge folk from corrections in this room, although I was incarcerated.

Let's give them a warm round of applause, right?

I wanna acknowledge them for something.

(audience applauds) Because it takes working in partnership with people who may not necessarily be on the same side, in perception, to really change how people are coming home and what they will do while they're home.

I think that's really important.

When I thought about reentry in Ohio, I was kind of concerned too because for my research, it seems as though Ohio out of 100,000 people has like at least 659 people out of a hundred thousand that are incarcerated in some way, which is like the largest, according to my research of any democratic nation in the world.

Now I didn't make this up.

And in no way am I here to besmirch the beautiful character of Ohio 'cause I want to make sure I'm safe.

Got it.

But when we look at out of a hundred thousand people, 650 of those people are those who are incarcerated per 100,000.

And again, it's almost the largest of any democratic country in the planet.

The United States, obviously it's first, unfortunately.

And why am I saying this?

I'm saying this because Ohio has a unique opportunity to get it right.

And I think that's happening through the work of Lutheran Ministries, through the work of CityClub, by creating spaces like this and through the work of each of you in this room who are committed to affecting meaningful change in the world.

I think that we can do some things however, and I want to kind of talk to what those things that we also can be in action doing as I get ready to kind of wrap up.

I'm not tired, I didn't eat that much food, although it's really good.

I don't wanna fall asleep on anybody.

But here's some things I think must be done.

I think the first thing that we have to look at as a country, as states who are interested in doing this work, creating opportunities for people to be hired and employed, we have to think a little bit more about prevention as a way to engage the criminal legal system.

Putting things in place so that people don't have to go to prison or jail to begin with.

Which means investing in resources in those historically highly impoverished, low literacy communities that many of the people that all of us in this room serve come from.

We have to think about prevention, we have to think about rehabilitation and what that really means.

Some maintain that it's more about empowerment than rehabilitation.

Empowerment suggests that human beings, while taking responsibility for what they do and have done, are also given opportunities to demonstrate that they can be better than what they once were.

So we have to think about prevention, putting things in place to prevent people from going to prison to begin with creating opportunities and spaces for them to be empowered so that true real rehabilitation can happen.

The other thing is we have to reckon with something in this country and in our communities, we have to reckon with the fact that we're dealing with a system that's built on racism.

That's a reality.

It's a fact.

And racism has been chiefly responsible for mass incarceration in this country, particularly when black and brown folk in particular are the most people that are jailed and incarcerated in this country.

So we have to reckon with that.

What does that mean?

We have to reckon with the fact that we have been involved in racist practices and tendencies in our systems and we have to change that by looking to heal.

And one way we do that is start talking about it, start putting resources in places that have been impacted by it to really change things.

And then we have to look at the socially economic impact of mass incarceration.

Communities are being torn apart by mass incarceration, leaving them more and more in the state of blight, leaving people more and more, not being able to access what they need and creating generations of people who won't see opportunities to build the kind of world that they want to see.

We have to look at how we engage punishment in this country and in our work and in our world.

And what does that mean?

Our involvement in what we consider punishment is retributive an eye for an eye, you did this, this is what happened, but it doesn't involve healing.

And so we need to look at restorative justice approaches to dealing with the criminal legal system because healing can happen in that process.

The punitive approaches we see obviously doesn't work necessarily.

We have more and more people entering jails, more and more people entering prisons.

People are recidivating at high numbers.

In New York state and even I think by the country's data and research says that about 68% of the people who have left prison after three years are rearrested.

That's something to really think about.

And I think having a conversation at the table with colleagues from from Lutheran Metropolitan Ministries that if we've ran our jails in prisons like a business, a GM for example, a General Motors, can you imagine if General Motors put out vehicles and after three years, 68% of them are recall.

Now how many people in here know about business?

Some people know a little bit about business, right?

We would shut that business down, right?

Or we would hold accountable those who are in leadership in that business and appeal to them to change their model and to reexamine how they're putting things in place to build their cars to ensure there's no recalls.

Well similarly, if we did the same thing in corrections, in policing, in prosecution, and we looked at what's not working and why is this happening?

And develop interventions that are informed by people that are directly impacted, let me say that 'cause that's important.

We can change that.

We won't have people going back.

But we keep doing things the same way over and over again, decade after decade.

And we find ourselves still looking at jails and prisons as the only answer to our challenges in our society.

So we need to look at restorative justice practices.

We need to look at ways in which to engage people differently rather than solely relying on on punishment.

We have to reimagine that, rethink that.

We also have to have transparency in law enforcement, in corrections.

We need to know what's happening.

We need to understand why things are happening.

People need to be trained a certain way.

There's an argument that's happening right now in different spaces in New York City where people are maintaining that if law enforcement officers are to carry a gun, they should be certified or licensed to do that because of the power that they have.

And this is not an anti-police statement or anti-correction statement.

I believe those things are necessary.

We need those entities in place, but we need greater transparency, we need greater accountability.

And what I mean by accountability is not from a punitive place.

When I think about accountability, I think about us as a community, as a society, being able to count on people that are in positions of public trust, to hold that space a certain way that demonstrates their respect for the humanity and dignity of the people that they're engaging.

That's what I mean by that.

(audience claps) And lastly, we have to put resources and investments in substance use treatment and mental health treatment.

In New York City, for example, over 52 of the percent of the people that are on Rikers Island have a mental health diagnosis.

25% of whom have a serious mental health diagnoses.

I would imagine in Ohio, it may not be exact or approximate to it, but I'm sure there's some data on it.

And I'm sure there's some numbers that would cause you to be concerned.

There's a growing mental health epidemic in this country and people who have historically experienced trauma, people who have gone into prisons in particular and have been re-traumatized because the fact that the matter, at least from my vantage point, as someone who was incarcerated, I was traumatized before I even went in prison.

I normalized my trauma because I didn't understand it, necessarily.

But when I went inside, it wasn't addressed, it was deepened.

And what happens if someone experiences that when they're released from prison?

What do you think?

Oh, jail, what do you think is gonna happen?

They may go out and harm someone again.

They may do something to violate the laws of society.

So I think we have to put greater investments in substance use treatment, mental health treatment as a way to address what's happening in the criminal legal system.

We are here talking about giving people a second chance or an opportunity.

And I think some of what I've mentioned are ways by which we can do that.

And if we do that, then we show the employer community that we have a commitment and investment in the people that we serve.

And that you can also have a commitment and investment in those that we serve too.

But it's gonna take us all to continue to do that.

I thank you all for the opportunity to speak here today.

Y'all are a beautiful audience.

You didn't fall asleep from that good food.

And I look forward and we look forward at the Fortune Society to continue to be a partner with CityClub here in Cleveland, with Lutheran Metropolitan Ministries and all others who are committed to this work.

So thank you.

Thank you, thank you.

(audience claps) And now.

And now.

Thank you.

Let me go over here.

That's a lot of standing.

You know, a little levity is good for the soul, right?

Like a little levity.

I mean, because the issues that we're dealing with are so important and so serious.

And so I know while it can be depressing, I'm also hopeful.

'Cause I know that all of us sit in this room will make the change that we want to see and are doing that.

So now I put on my radio personality hat, how's that?

And that's the other thing about like people who've been incarcerated in jail.

Like we also creative, like we, we can adapt, we can do all.

So it makes Ian's job a little bit easier from Luther Metropolitan Ministries, right?

Because he can sell that to the, my folk can do all kind of stuff.

You have no idea.

Right?

So, you know, we're about to begin the audience, we'll do the Q and A a little bit later on, right?

But I'm gonna turn now to our panelists, right?

I'm gonna ask them some questions, right?

We have some wonderful people up here, right?

We have Simone Best.

Oh wow, okay.

That's the best that I can do with this microphone.

We have Simeon Best of the Cayuga County office of Reentry.

Let's give him a warm round of applause.

(audience claps) We have Robin Turner of Cleveland VOTES.

(audience claps) and Brandon Veres of Marble Room Steaks and Raw Bar.

(audience claps) By the way, I want to acknowledge Dan, who's in the room, right?

Great host.

And I would be remiss if I didn't obviously acknowledge Cynthia who is behind the scenes, like making all this stuff work along with the amazing staff that's here, and certainly Mr. C. where is he?

Did he leave?

Where is he?

(audience claps) And Charles, my dear colleague and friend that's in the back over there, right?

Just wanna acknowledge him.

Before we go.

But I wanna turn out to our panelists and I think the first question I want to ask is, why is now the right time for organizations to rethink hiring processes or policies regarding people that are returning to the community not returning citizens?

Right.

Yes?

- I guess I'll start.

I would say now is the time, because as we see diversity, equity, and inclusion increasing around the world in our cultures, as we see that happening, you can't do it authentically without returning citizens.

Or excuse me, citizens, let me try to get that in my head.

We can't do it authentically without them.

And so the more diverse our workforce is, the more innovative we can be and the better we can solve problems.

And I'll also say this really quick too.

We see that now it's also a time we, a lot of people are experiencing labor shortage all around, right, it's a labor shortage all around, right?

And so a lot of employers have looked to answer that through looking at returning, looking at citizens justice involved individuals.

And that's important.

So now is the time for that.

But I will like to say this as well, I believe that it's kind of unfortunate that it took a labor shortage for some employers to start looking at people who've had value all this time.

And so I just hope that we can be more proactive instead of reactive.

- Sure.

- So why I think now is the time is that the intent of being able to bridge the gap between intent action by providing real second chances for citizens.

I know citizens are, we are very deserving, but oftentimes overlooked.

Those citizens, you know, have paid their debt to society.

They want to get back to work, and most importantly, not return to prison yet they face so many obstacles when it comes to employment.

- Thank you everyone, first of all.

And it's always been the right time.

It's not just now, it has been.

Thank you.

(audience claps) I'm a cook, right?

I'm a chef.

But when it boils on to it, I cook things.

And the best way of learning from that is we make mistakes, make mistakes a lot.

I'm a professional chef.

How many times have I messed up an omelet?

How many other times have I overcooked a steak, right?

That's directly how we learn.

And we apply it, we adapt, we evolve, then we grow.

And everyone here makes mistakes.

It's about applying it and further progressing.

(audience claps) - And thank you for those comments and I'm gonna turn to you Simeon.

And what are some of the benefits, right, you've seen for employers, right, who are committed to hiring someone with past justice involvement?

- Just one of 'em would be improved employee retention.

So hiring these individuals, they are more committed and dedicated to their job.

You've given them an opportunity and they're gonna hold onto that because so many times the door has been shut in their face.

And so now they're gonna hold onto this for themselves, for their families and and for their employer.

They're gonna prove that they were worth this chance that they were given.

- If I may.

- Yeah, absolutely.

- Absolutely.

- I can directly attest to that a hundred percent.

With the work with LMM, these individuals are some of the most passionate, caring on top of it.

Whatever is needed, "I'm in it, chef, I got you."

And not just chef, it's the teammates.

It's a restaurant family and a culture that we support each other.

And that's the most beautiful thing is that passion is just reignited.

You can see it in the eyes, you can feel the energy, the hustle.

And that's the most beautiful thing to see that all-in mentality.

- Sure, so for me, I would wanna say, just piggybacking off what Brandon and Simeon said, being able to develop future leaders just by, you know, hiring people who have been justice impacted.

- And what are some of the common misconceptions employers have when it comes to like, hiring our folk?

- Oh, I can go.

(audience laughs) So one of the common misconceptions is that they're lazy expenses will increase, will underperform create problems on a job.

We are likely to recommit again, people with criminal backgrounds are less reliable, increased turnover.

Yeah.

- But that also kind of sounds to some degree, with the exception of them returning to prison like any human being for that matter, right?

Employees.

We've come across employees that fit those descriptions, right, to some degree.

Simeon?

- I think she really covered it all.

I mean, I think generally they think, you know, they're not trustworthy and they're gonna cause now a problem for, you know, my organization and so that whole liability aspect of it too.

So I think those are just some misconceptions.

- Okay.

And you know, what's your elevator pitch to HR, right?

When you get before them, what's your elevated pitch to HR professional on why, right, they should make an effort to have a more inclusive hiring policy.

- I can go.

- Alright.

- So I always lead in, you know, really expressing who I am.

Pretty much, I sell myself, I sell myself and I speak directly from my heart.

I use, I joke, I kind of to feel the particular person out and I let them know that I'm dependable, I'm reliable, I'm trustworthy, I'm able to do this.

I'm willing to learn.

I'm a fast learner.

Things such as that's, so I sell myself completely.

- Simeon, anybody else?

- I would say that I would just to to HR if, again, if we're going back to DEI and inclusion, they have to be at the table.

They have to be included and they're important part of the work that has to be done.

And so, again, with diversity comes innovation comes really ability to really address problems and hit it on the nail.

So that would be my pitch.

Let do this thing and let's do it right.

Let's do the right thing.

- I would say everything's a risk.

Driving here, coming here today is a risk.

Just like you said, it's a citizen.

Everyone deserves that risk.

If you, it's just like in any other individual interview, give them that chance.

Talk them.

They're real human beings.

We're all human beings.

It's, you know, at that point, if it's a yay or a nay, feel it out.

Give that chance, that opportunity.

Yeah.

- Which is oftentimes not easy.

We know there's a lot of scare mongering that's happening in the media around people with conviction histories.

And it's a whole campaign now to really change and shift the narrative.

I think I was talking to Marcella, where's Marcella, she's here, right?

The VP of of development and communications at Lutheran Metropolitan Ministries.

And we were talking about this notion of like, the narrative has to change.

What we see promulgated throughout the media oftentimes is something negative.

Someone was robbed or someone was killed.

But you very rarely see stories of success on the news.

Now come on folk.

We know there are thousands and thousands of success stories and we have to ask ourselves why aren't those success stories?

You know, the media says if it bleeds, it leads.

You've heard that term before, right?

So the narrative shifting has to happen.

And so like beyond the hiring process, how can organizations be more inclusive and supportive of returning, I'm not gonna do it.

Supportive of citizens once on staff.

And I think Simeon got at that a little bit, but any responses?

- Yes, so I think really increasing their training and support to these individuals who are coming on really supporting them.

That includes counseling, that includes coaching, any professional development, making sure that they have what they need to thrive on the job.

They have transitioned, right?

So there, there's trauma that we all have, right?

But just helping to support them through this journey.

I think that's one of the ways that they can do that and be there for them.

- And that sounds like somebody who's never been in prison, jail needs access.

The EAP is something, right?

So yes, somebody in my answer.

- You want me to answer I'll tap in.

- Making sure that individuals are connected civically.

I think that's where we derive like a lot of our opportunities to succeed in different places and different spaces.

I think it takes, you know, environments are just made up of diverse people, practices, conditions, and values.

So I think civic engagement is really important in regards to people who are coming home, you know, just for different opportunities.

I know that's what I did for myself, putting myself in those places.

- And as someone who's formally incarcerated, when I was inside, I think I was speaking one of the gentlemen from the food program, what's it called again?

Chopping for change.

That's a beautiful term.

When I was inside, I always said to myself, I wanna make sure I give back to the community in some way.

It's a part of my civic duty.

And they're in a numerable amount of people in jails and prisons that think just like that.

They just wanna give back.

They want not a second chance.

They want an opportunity to give back to the community through voluntary efforts that obviously would've lead at some point to being employed and earning some money.

'Cause they need to earn money to take care of themselves.

But we think like that we want to give back.

So the civic engagement part, the civic duty part is important.

You wanna say something?

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Instantly giving back food is life and I'm a life student at my craft and infinite amount of knowledge to be learned.

And that gives such a tremendous outlet to completely submerge and be that life student.

And continuing while practicing and learning is giving back in the hospitality industry.

- Which leads me to this question, right?

Your organizations right?

Or your places of business.

And what has it done that has helped people who've come home from jail to prison be successful and what maybe hasn't gone as well?

- I'll start off with the Office of Reentry and what we've done and what we're continuing to do is we're committed to strengthening our network of community partners by coordinating innovative programs and services that assure quality opportunities for people to come out and be successful.

And so that looks like our North Star re-entry resource center.

It's our one stop shop, all things re-entry.

It's for individuals who have been impacted by the justice system for their families, for their friends to be there and support them.

So counseling happens there, anger management happens there, there's a computer lab, there's a library, all these resources that are there for them.

There's a chief staffing through towards employment, you know, so they're hiring individuals, they're connecting their employer partners with individuals who are justice involved, who want to work, right?

And so it's a alternative staffing organization.

So we're supporting that.

We're funding that.

We have a contract with Aspire who goes into the jail and provides that adult basic education.

These things that we're trying to make sure stay in the community and help people as they transition out after they're out.

- So for my organization, which is Cleveland VOTES, my ED challenges me in a way of sometime, I don't know, I be like, I don't know, I don't know.

Am I too sure?

But as I trust the process and I trust her, she's grooming me and professionally developing me for something bigger and more.

So self-care is important.

Professional development is important, personal development is important.

Making sure I ask for what I need is important.

If something's going on, being able to articulate those words where before what was going on, I didn't know what was going on.

I know what was going, so I didn't know what was going on.

- More important.

- So now I'm, yeah, going was going, you know, the on.

So being able to have that type of person in my, I've never had that.

So initially it was scary for me.

I'm like, I don't know if I should trust her.

I don't know if I'm gonna get fired on my day off.

I don't know what's going to go on, but I better just, let me just keep going Robin, don't just let me just keep going.

So I just kept going, trust the process.

And as I trust the process, things just became more clear.

Clear.

And you know, I'm on a really good path.

I'm no longer in survival mode.

I'm surely thriving.

(audience claps) - How am I gonna follow that up man?

Come on here.

I'm gonna touch base on the problems with my profession and organization that I'm currently at.

There's not a single day that goes by without more than 10 problems.

There's usually about 10 problems every hour.

Going back to what I initially said is these citizens are there and in it for that second chance and knowing that in the back of their mind, it's the all-in mentality.

I can't express that enough too.

It's the change and the learning from that situation and those mistakes it directly relates to cooking.

That is directly how we learn.

You can learn off good and bad, but it's way more effective and messed up.

I cooked that omelet way too high.

Not gonna do that again.

And more times than not my work with LMM, the individuals give me less problems than anyone else, honestly, I mean, let's be honest here.

Yeah, yeah.

(audience claps) - Yeah, and we talked about that a little bit, right?

I mentioned earlier in my remarks, right?

You know, giving people an opp opportunity to demonstrate the capacity to change.

But in that, right, making progress in that change, right?

So things are gonna change, but even if you make poor decisions, right, you can still, you can make progress if you're given the opportunity to like change and move that along.

So what are some actionable items, some actionable steps for our amazing audience here that's still up from that good food, right?

What are some actionable steps for our audience members and what can it do to advance today's conversation?

- Seems like I'm starting.

Alright, I'll continue that.

I would just say that for our audience members, if you have an employer that you work for and they have not embraced, you know, individuals with criminal backgrounds, I would get in the HR's ear, I would get into leadership's ear and really express to them many of the things that you heard today, why it's beneficial for them to do this.

And also the other thing I would do is check your own biases.

We all have them.

So just check your biases and have a support group.

Have friends who will hold you accountable.

Hey, why did you say that?

Why did you do that?

I think that goes a long way.

- So now I would say getting actively involved in the conversation around the whole reentry thing.

Getting involved.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Involvement.

Take that first initial step.

You don't know until you try commit.

I mean it's scary.

It's, it's unknown.

It's risky.

Absolutely.

We all know this, but you don't know until you try as with anything in life.

Give the opportunity.

- I echo those sentiments, right, most people are just uninformed.

They don't know.

And if you let people watch television long enough, that's all they'll know.

And so our commitment to informing people and having those conversations and leaning into those conversations with care helps change people's perspective, which is really, really important.

So I thank our amazing panelists.

Let's give them a warm round of applause.

(audience claps) - Good job.

- So we're about to begin our audience questions, right?

We're gonna field some questions.

We have someone here at the microphone, you can state your first name.

- Hi Katrice Williams.

My question is this, what are the current Cayuga County initiatives, not just around fair hiring, but wage transparency between those who have criminal convictions and those who do not.

Because typically, even if a employer is willing to hire someone with the criminal background, they do not pay them at the same wage or even the annual salary as someone who does not have a criminal background.

And they usually try to channel them into lower wage work.

So is there a current county ordinance that's in process or legislation or even city legislation that has wage transparency when it comes to people with criminal convictions and those who don't?

- That's a really good question.

- Yeah, wow.

- I dunno about that.

- So I work for the county and I can find out for you.

I will find, that's a great question and I can find out the answer for you.

I know Katrice, so.

- Everybody's saying far as when they get out of the penitentiary.

But see, by me being in the penitentiary y'all gotta look and see what's going on inside the penitentiary because there's so much corruption and everything going up in the penitentiary.

I done seen a lot.

It's not about them getting out here, employee about that, getting out employed and all that.

I'm talking, I seen some major things that's really going on inside the penitentiary.

Really put them people in that state of mind of like not really like getting out here and still be criminal minded.

And then on top of it, they be coming out man, they still like in that penitentiary state of mind.

But see, I'm saying there, don't talk about what's coming out of there, but really what's going on in there because you know, you could pull up that illusion by me.

I'm telling you the experience.

It's some real things that's going on in there that need to be addressed for real accounting for some of the guards and all that need to be accounted for what they doing for real.

'Cause they getting away with a lot with that I'm just going to please put a thought to that for real because a lot of people in there really need some help.

And there's a lot of innocent people in there too.

So thank you for that.

(audience claps) - Yeah, thank you for that.

Thank you.

Thank you for that too, brother Emanuel.

Thank you for that Brother Emanuel.

And that's why in the remarks earlier I mentioned about the trauma is deepened and worsened while people are in there based on what you're describing, what people are experiencing.

And that's why people need to be engaged while they're inside, right?

Which requires investments in a different way in reimagining how we engage people while they're in prisons.

So it's a very good point that you make, right?

Those things will change as we continue to advocate because reentry really starts while people are inside.

- Absolutely.

- And I didn't make that earlier, but it's true.

- When a shout out the concept of restorative practices and put it in the, in the framework of our hiring and some of the greatest need for this community and across the country right now, which is housing and how can we take some of the things, the advancements that we've seen as far as in some of the service industries and and incorporating folks coming home, but do that within the trade, the skilled trade fields that could really restore the communities that they are returning to and actually get some diversity and equity within those trade fields that for so long, many black and brown folks have been excluded from and what is happening in community with those kind of conversations right now.

Thank you.

(audience claps) - Thank you for that too, Josiah.

And when you think about black, brown, poor white, and marginalized communities, they need access to resources and support to get into those trades.

My dear colleague James back there, James Walker does some work in housing to support people getting access to it because they have conviction histories.

And I'm gonna acknowledge James again over there.

He's in the corner some of y'all know James over there.

(audience claps) You have a question?

- Yes.

My name is Malika Kidd.

I'm the program director for workforce development at Luther Metropolitan Ministry.

(audience claps) So when I came home set eight years ago, I started off in a service industry in food service.

And I started off at LMM as the kitchen supervisor for the Chopping for Change program when we first started with the women.

And it's easier to get into the food industry when you're returning home.

Since I've been home, I've been promoted several times and now I'm the program director as I get my education.

(audience claps) My question is, how do we tap into other industries?

If you're not interested in food, how do we get those employers to wanna hire our returning citizen?

Or our citizens.

(audience claps) - Great, great question, Malika, I will just tell you really quickly, we took a trip maybe a month or so ago to Marysville Women's Reformatory with LMM and some county staff as well.

And just to see what they had a program they have onsite at Marysville.

The women get to go through this program that teaches them horticulture, construction, manufacturing before they leave.

Well, they go through the program, it's one week of orientation and six months they go through this program, they get their certification before they leave, they are interviewed and then the city of Columbus or the Franklin County offers them a job before they actually are released.

And so we wanna bring that same model here and for the areas to hear the facilities here and do that same thing.

And so we're gonna be looking at the other industries and sectors to make that happen.

(audience claps) - Thank you.

And then we'll go to the side.

Yes.

- Combating mass incarceration by disrupting the money bail system is one step to restore the presumption of innocence and reunite families.

Can you talk a little bit about the impact of bail reform for our citizens is I mean in New York that the bail project in New York City is huge.

- I knew somebody was gonna bring that up because it's a major reason why, at least one of the major reasons why there's an uptick or an upsurge in people being detained or incarcerated because of cash bail being established for people who are indigent, who are unable to access funding to bail themselves out is why so many people are in jail.

So there's a movement happening in the nation, specifically in New York City where we are looking to make sure that the bail reform legislation that had been enacted through years and years of advocacy and activism is not rolled back.

And we wanna make sure that happens because when people are detained, they're detained because they have been alleged to have committed a crime, but they aren't necessarily, they aren't convicted of anything.

But when you raise these high bails and people are unable to afford them, you have people languishing in jails being exposed to more trauma and harm and continue to perpetuate this whole notion of mass incarceration.

So thank you for raising that too, and happy to talk with anybody outside of that.

And I see Cynthia, which is a cue.

- Andre Ward and our panelists here today.

(audience claps) I'm Cynthia Connolly, director of programming here at the CityClub of Cleveland.

And today's forum is part of the CityClub's criminal justice series.

Thanks to the Char and Chuck Fowler Family Foundation, it is also the 2023 Charles RC Forum on reentry in partnership with Lutheran Metropolitan Ministry for 44 years, Charles RC worked to support and advocate for people returning to the community after incarceration.

It's in Charles C's honor that we hosted today's forum on reentry and highlight nationally recognized efforts and individuals currently working in re-entry.

Mr.C and his family are here with us today and we would like to thank him for his support.

(audience claps) We would also like to welcome tables hosted by the Cleveland Foundation, Cleveland State University College of Law, Cleveland VOTES, the Cayuga County Department of Health and Human Services, office of Reentry Grafton, the Legal Aid Society of Cleveland, Luther Metropolitan Ministry, the Northeast Reintegration Center, Oriana House Inc. Policy matters Ohio and Building Freedom Ohio Together, Towards Employment and Tucker Ellis LLP, thank you for being here with us today.

(audience claps) Up next at the CityClub, we'll be back at the Happy Dog in Gordon Square, the evening of May 3rd, taking on youth and family homelessness.

Chris Nestrick with the Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless will be leading that conversation.

Then on Friday, May 5th, the CityClub will welcome former US Attorney General William Barr for a discussion about his new memoir.

And on Tuesday, May 9th, we'll be relaunching the CityClub Book Club.

The first since the the pandemic with award-winning actor and author Patterson Joseph.

And he will discuss his new book, the "Secret Diaries of Charles Ignatius Sancho."

For more information on these forums and more, visit cityclub.org.

And that brings us to the end of today's forum.

Our forum is now adjourned.

Have a great weekend.

(audience claps) - [Announcer] For information on upcoming speakers or for podcasts of the CityClub, go to cityclub.org.

Production and distribution of CityClub Forums an Idea Stream Public Media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.