Welcome to Beyond the Clasm PBS39.

I'm your host, Joe Forsetid it's a pleasure to sit down with you this evening on ts week's episode, we'll be talking to a teacher and a pediatrician about how ours access screens and what thr exposure to screens means r their overall well-being.

As adults, we have to admit computers, television and r some of us certainly me gag consoles far too much in f, you might be on more than e screen at this very moment streaming your movie while doing scrolling on Faceboo.

Maybe most of us probably e the same questions.

How much is too much and ia certain type of screen time activity better than anoth?

And as for our kids, it cat all be bad, right?

Look, screen time is an unavoidable reality of our daily lives.

It is vitally important to understand the impacts of screen time on our childres development.

So how can we ensure our ks are not only safe, response digital citizens while thee online, but also be delibee about our kids access scres at home?

More importantly, how can e make sure that they and we remain healthy?

Let's find out tonight whe.

According to the CDC, chiln in the United States aged t to 10 spend six hours on average per day on screens.

Children in the 11 to 14 ae range average nine hours a.

And in each of these age groups, that only accountsr entertainment, media, television, video games, internet browsing being the most prevalent in that category.

So tonight I want to thankr Katie Kent of the Lehigh Vy Health Network for joinings as a pediatrician.

We need your advice very b.

So we really appreciate you being here tonight as wells Richard Smith.

And he is a fourth grade teacher at the CAIB Learnig Academy in Allentown, Pennsylvania.

So thank you both for being here this evening.

We really appreciate it.

I wanted to start tonight h a general idea of internet safety.

So I know screentime is kif like the meat.

That's what people want tor and we'll get to that.

We absolutely will.

But I do want to talk about internet safety generally.

So during the pandemic, vey clearly a lot of our kids,a lot of our students were on screens during that time fr virtual learning.

Richard, can you walk us through just like generally speaking, what internet say means is a large concept ad kind of what falls underneh that in terms of the umbre, the internet safety falls under.

It's basically teaching children and educating our adults and even our teachen what the correct ways are o about searching for information, how to be ablo tell a legitimates websitem an illegitimate website asl as knowing and understandig the precautions and quote unquote rules that are putn place, especially for thins that we as adults and our children are starting to be more absorbed in in the sol media world.

I do believe personally tht social media because it ise of the biggest things thath adults and children do on e internet in general is onef the things that needs to be looked at and addressed ash as possible.

And in my particular line f work, working as a fourth e teacher and in the atmosphe that I do, I take it very seriously, teaching the children and attempting to educate their parents is ao what are appropriate thingd what are inappropriate this and how to recognize that.

Yeah, thank you.

So in talking about like tt generally especially that parent piece is really important too, in terms of educating parents as well, because I know that as a fr I need that education as w. In terms of what is safe to and what isn't safe to do .

Dr Kim, from a more from a political perspective, when you're talking about beinge or safe usage online, whatd of conversations do you hae with your patients about t?

That's a great question anI think it really depends one child and the parent and te type of relationship they .

So I think a lot of times n we're talking about internt safety, we're talking more about our preteens, our teenagers and teenagers thn we'd like to share things h us.

And you know, I constantlye parents asking me like, we, should I get passwords?

Should I not have them use social at all unless they'e around me?

And I think that can be ha.

So I think having open communication with your chd and setting strict boundars and rules of what you expet from them, but then also allowing them to be able to come to you with these questions, they're not afrd to to be in trouble.

Kids are very tech savvy.

They're very smart.

So even if you have all of their passwords to all of r devices and the different accounts they have, they cn always make more accounts.

You can always have differt passwords.

So I think the education pt is really important in terf parents.

I also think it's hard for parents to stay on top of everything that our kids ae doing now.

There's just so many new ts that are coming out all the time.

So I'll often refer parento a website called Common See Media.

It's a website that gives reviews about different ass of media, whether it's boo, TV, different apps, even vo games, movies.

Just so parents are kind of aware of what they should e looking out for and maybe t questions they should talko their children about.

So I'm glad that you brougp the kind of the age rangess one of the concerns there.

You the difference betweena pre-teen and the communican you have to have with them versus, you know, a child o is in kindergarten or possy younger.

Richard, when we're talking about ages.

Right.

And you're talking about internet safety in teaching them how to navigate safeld educating parents as to wht that looks like, what kindf conversations do you have a fourth grade teacher with r students?

One of the biggest things t I stress with all of the students at is that very mh like once you say somethint loud, you can't take it ba.

Once you put something outo the internet, it doesn't mr if you delete it in every y that you can possibly thin.

It's still out there somew.

It doesn't matter and somee it can come up again.

Once it gets out there, itn be searched.

It can be found.

I don't get too much into e conversation.

The Dark Web with my stude.

And obviously, unless you'a very tech savvy individualu probably aren't fully awarf the dark web.

But it is basically it's jt that shady side of the intt where people pay other peoe to find your information so that they can use it to eir do really horrible things h your identity or try to opn credit cards in your name d things like that.

So like I said, once that information gets out there, there's no way to bring it back, regardless of how may times you try to delete it.

And my understanding is tht generally speaking, those s of incidents are becoming e and more frequent because e have more and more users.

Absolutely.

You know, phishing scams ad other things of that natur.

And they don't it doesn't t target adults.

If a student if a child han email address, they are cae of being caught in a phishg scam or any thing like tha.

And the other problem and t I also try to instill in my students and the parents iu never really know who you'e talking to on the other sif that screen.

Unless it's someone that yu personally know, someone tt you are personally friends with, have been in contacth the person on the other sif that screen could be anyon.

It could be it could actuay be a 14-year-old girl like they're saying that they ar it could be a 57 year old .

You have no idea.

So it's very important for parents to also, you know,s the doctor said, they don't always want to come to youh what's happening.

But just doing your best to stay on top of those thing.

And I know what she's sayig about changing passwords ad putting passwords.

These kids are always goino be figuring this out faster than you can keep up with .

And it's been that way andt will always be that way bee that's one thing that theyl like they have freedom wits their personal devices.

So and there's that whole a of a digital native which r those of us that don't aret familiar with the term posy essentially kids that have grown up with a device at l times, the internet has als existed for them.

It's always been access sig here.

We likely had 56 dial up connection and that was muh later on in life.

Yeah, I know.

I'm sorry I had to bring t, but it just hurt me a litte bit.

Those are hard times for everybody.

So the social media compont was also something that eaf you had brought up and I'm curious to hear what do patients bring to you witht doctor kin.

So I would imagine that the are concerns that parents e with regarding children regardless of their age.

But what types of issues ae you seeing related specifiy to social media?

Yeah, so I think it always comes up just when we're talking about screen time n general.

And I always try to be spec about asking about social a use, especially if the pars are coming with concerns at anxiety or depression.

It's interesting.

Some studies were done that showed that kids who had le to no screen time had highr rates of anxiety and depren and that kids who had excee screen time also had those higher rates.

So it seems there's a sweet spot in the middle.

We're having some of that screen time probably becauf the socialization is actuay helpful and helps fosters relationships.

I think specifically when e talking about things like Instagram, things where yoe looking at other people's s through rose colored glass, you know, it tends to kidsl upset.

Well, why isn't my life lie this?

Why am I not doing this wiy friends and I think all the filters now that you can ay to I mean, used to be celebrities and famous peoe that, you know, are young s and boys would look to youd compare themselves to you.

But now it's every day peoe it's people that you go to school with.

And so I think that it's ha lot of effects on kids self-esteem.

Yeah.

And you had said you had mentioned very importantly, very critically, that mentl health component that goeso this because it does affecs the way that our students .

And so have you brought tht self-esteem issue or that self-image and whether thas positive or not?

Richard, how do you see tht with your students?

So it's absolutely a huge g because and I don't really understand who most of the people that my students tak about are half the time bee I'm not plugged into that entertaining side of the entertainment world.

But it's constantly, oh, ts person got these new Nike r this person was rocking the new Gucci sweatpants or th.

And I again, right over my head.

But it's a huge self-esteem thing.

This is what these kids wa.

This is what these kids are striving to be in terms of socially and they see what these people are capable of getting and want to know ho I get there?

And I mean, it's a legitime question.

Absolutely.

But at the same time,.

In our school, we very much foster a sense of belongind wanting people to accept yo matter how you are and whao you are and not comparing yourself to someone else as often as sometimes our chin are want to do and so that brings me to one big quest, which again, we've kind ofn circling the drain, so to speak, around which is with screen time.

We use that term all the te and obviously refers to a number of different things.

But what specifically can t refer to when we say screen time or if the research brs up screen time?

So not all screen time is created equally?

I feel like I'm always sayg that to parents and when Im asking about how many houra day their child spends in t of a screen, I'm not talkig about the time that they're doing their homework or specifically talking aboute passive uses of screen tim.

So whether that's for entertainment, which againe on a limited basis is totay fine.

We're talking about the scrolling through social ma accounts, the loops of vids that get played on YouTube.

That's the type of screen e that we want to try to limt and why specifically would let's say not that I do ths over, but let's say why wod scrolling through Twitter, which I understand kids dot even use any more again?

No, it's not.

No, Eddie Moran.

Well, where are you doing t now?

I know.

I know.

I enjoy it again.

If you're really into reseh articles and retweeting th, then I'm pleased that follw button.

You'll love it if anybody s to see.

I read tweets about new edh classroom flip grid or near air.

We go there we go.

And there's so and that's d of my point too, right?

That's I feel like there ae certain social media platfs that have a more professiol end to them, so to speak.

And the accounts could be d for the purposes disseminag information.

So is that still bad?

So I understand the perspee for Instagram or Facebook r Snapchat or any other litaf things.

TikTok right.

If I'm looking at those I n see very clearly like thiss this might not be the best thing for kids, but why wod it be bad for, let's say, n adult to go through if we'e talking about like self cae and our own mental health,y to be bad for me to keep scrolling through the newsI think mostly it's a big tie waster.

So we do you have like you mentioned, we can get information.

We can get news if you ask adults, I think they were polled and said the main rn that they use these accouns really for news and for information.

And some of our kids are dg the same.

That's how they're connectg with what's going on in the world.

But you end up I don't knof you've ever looked at your phone.

It tells you how long you'e been looking at your screen through the day and where u thought maybe you were loog for, you know, ten, 15 min.

You can suck an hour to two hours of their time.

And that's time that they'e not spending with their fa.

That's time that they're nt doing their homework.

That's time that they're nt sleeping.

It's time that they're sitg sedentary.

So all of those things cane really important impacts or health and well-being.

So what are some of the alternatives that you had mentioned?

A couple of spending time h our family, homework, etc.

What are some other activis or things that we could doo substitute that out in the craftiest way possible as caregivers?

Yes, I think the most impot thing is really to have a conversation with your chid about why you want to limit their screen time.

Use specifically that passe recreation use and come uph what works best for your family.

In terms of what to do bess doing screen time.

So there's functional and healthy ways that we can ue screens if you're using a screen to watch something educational, you're learnig frm that you're for benefig from that.

Great.

If you're using that screeo watch a workout video and you're getting up and you'e moving, that's great.

If you're you know, chattig with your family who livesn Arizona and you're building relationships again, that's great.

That's wonderful.

We don't want to see kids o are spending hours and hou.

I think what you said nine hours a day that some kidse spending on a screen just sitting down.

So I think, you know, the quality of screen time is important.

The quantity of screen tims important and having a bale is really what our aim is.

So if I'm sitting in the classroom Portland obviousy the context for using a scn in the classroom in one toe environment like you're in, Richard, is very differentn passively having Netflix od just streaming something ie background.

What does that look like dg the day for our kids?

Because even if it's not ae on one on one environment e every student has a device, they're still interacting h screens on a daily basis.

Can you walk us through wht that looks like while our s are at school?

A lot of times, especiallyn my particular area and my classroom, we do a lot of t is called adaptive software programs where the children take at the beginning of te school year.

They take a pretest on this program and it places them according to their skills d according to their abiliti.

And then throughout the yer there are the program adaps itself to continue their learning without me havingo stand over their shoulder o see how well they're doing.

It's by no means a replacet for live in person interacn with another human being, t it is helpful in that it as the students to still be actively learning and actiy participating in something while say I'm taking a smal group of students that I fl needs more help in this specific area that we've bn working in and those kids e going to be OK over there working through with this program because it's continually adapting and evolving for them.

While I'm able to sit withy other smaller group of stus and go over something that perhaps they can pick up vy well.

The prior day in class andt adaptive nature and that's something I think as a part myself kind of struggle wih when it comes to homework specifically.

And what it looks like thee my children are younger.

They're second second gradn kindergarten and then I han infant as well.

So when they come home with homework, so to speak, it't really the traditional sitg on a laptop and doing thin.

But when I look at high scl students, I see something What does look like for th?

So understanding that fourh grade or elementary school might look a bit differentn high school generally whatI found is the most common tg that I've seen in other scs is the use of Google classm as a jumping off point fort assignments that teachers e able to give.

And the nice thing about tt is it allows the teachers o kind of flip the classrooms it were, where they can gie the students an assignment before to read these this chapter.

Here are some guiding questions, some discussion questions so that when thet to the classroom the follog morning, it's far more of e a town hall discussion typf model rather than the teacr standing at the front of te room spittig facts back at them.

I also find that works outy well because especially wih the Google classroom and ts like that, you can give thm videos that are pertinent o the topic.

You can really allow them o direct their own learning d you can do so while also encouraging them to steer towards sites that you have already vetted as the teacr that, you know, give good d and pertinent information r the topic that you're goino be talking about in class.

And what I know going backo doctor, you mentioned that common sense media as an excellent resource for pars to go on and kind of get te resources ahead of time.

So making that transition s a bit easier when we have s that we're able to use.

So that's absolutely one tt I've used myself and I this excellent.

And it's not just good fore parents.

It's also good for the educators as well.

There are spots on there we you can review different ts of these adaptive software programs and other educatil programs to see if they are going to fit in with your program.

Let's say I'm walking intor office and I have my childn with me.

And one of the things thatI probably did before I got s I probably possibly Googled something about symptoms tt my child might have.

And I have decided as somey who just Googled somethingt I know exactly what I'm tag about and I've presented io you who is trained as a do, but I've just Googled it.

So I clearly know the same thing right.

This is I only bring that p because I have a couple of friends who are physicianss well.

And this is something that comes up very frequently fr them.

How do you navigate that?

Yeah, Doctor, Google has be very popular and I think is great that we have access o this type of information.

I mean, 30, 40 years ago, e even sooner.

And that like people woulde had that.

And I think that it can hep start conversations or sometimes parents will brig specific things will on Go.

They said this and they sad that and I feel like I cank to them like, well, your cd doesn't have A, B or C bece these reasons and I always encourage parents to do thr own resources, I just try o steer them in the right direction.

So depending on the topic t we're talking about, I alws try to give them good resos where they can find reliabe information, which sometims you can find good informatn on Google.

Sometimes it pops up, but t of times it ends up openina big can of uncertainty and bringing more fear into th.

So you're saying my first l should be to the doctor, r?

That would be recommended.

OK, that's good to know.

Even though we all have a tendency to kind of go ando that.

Right.

And that I think is when I think of high school studes in particular and I want to keep reading back to them because again, the amount f screen time that they are really by necessity requiro do throughout the school d, regardless of whether it'su they're doing writing on Ge Docs, that's where they're writing their essays.

They're using adaptive programs.

Could be Lexia, Dreambox fr math and a whole bunch of r things.

Right.

There are there are a numbf different things they haveo do there.

So if they have to do thatt home and yet we're also recommending so even you're recommending purposeful scn time and I guess that thats where the challenge comes , right.

Is there's a necessity in having to do it.

And there's also just so mh of it.

And I know that that's not right.

How do we how do we balance that out beyond just giving advice?

Yeah.

So I don't know how that Ie the answer to that, but I m glad that we talked about e different types of screen e because certainly use of screens is really inevitabt this point.

Kids come home with their Chromebook.

They don't have the same, u know, paper books that we d to have.

And so a lot of time spentn on screen and as long as they're using that for a purpose and are learnig, we don't really count that in their screen time limits.

Now, of course, have othere effects.

I constantly am seeing kido are having flares of their migraines because of too mh screen time.

It's causing eye strain.

So there's that problem.

I also really wanted to tak about screen time and how t relates to sleep.

So especially for our high school or students who hava lot of work and might be involved other extracurricr activities, they might be a screen ten, 11 getting cloo midnight where they're stag at a screen.

And we know that has effecn how we're able to fall aslp and how well we sleep at n. So that blue light that ges emitted from your tablet, m your laptop, from your cell phone actually inhibits melatonin.

That's our hormone that hes regulate our circadian rhy.

And so a lot of times whens are coming in and they're telling me that they have a hard time sleeping, my firt question is, do you have screens in your bedroom?

Are you using your phone be you fall asleep?

And 99.9% of the time the answer is yes.

So the general recommendatn is to actually limit your screen time use and shut te devices off an hour before bedtime.

So do blue light glasses wk asking for selfish reasons?

Yeah, I have.

So I know I do have some patients that say that it s with their eye discomfort.

I don't know that there's y actual studies to prove tht it's going to solve your problem.

But if it's helpful, I definitely don't think it's harmful.

Well, I did Google it and I couldn't find anything.

I couldn't find anything tt was really like scientificy valid, just really good marketing.

And I don't know if it's a placebo, but they tend to k for me.

I don't know.

Get back to me on that one.

No, let me know if that wo.

So one of the things that I kind of wanted to talk abos also personally how we intt with screens.

So I know that I have an unhealthy relationship wity screens and I do need to I admit that I have a probled I need to move on from it.

And find ways to mitigate t because I you know, the modeling for our kids is ao remarkably important.

And what that looks like fm an adult's perspective, how exactly do you deal with screens in your own personl life?

Richard, I will admit, Joe, that I have our we have the exact same problem that yo.

I am a perpetual doom.

Groer on Facebook it happe.

It's just a way of life ats point and definitely sometg that I know I have to work.

I am active on Twitter, on Snapchat, on Instagram, all things of that nature.

And I think the big thing t we need to remember as adus is that regardless of whatr hobbies are, what your interests are, what you lio do, there can always be a c side to any type of hobby.

And I do find myself fallig into that a lot at times iy personal scrawlings.

And I find myself getting t about that toxicity becausm very passionate about my te communities that I'm a parf in the hobbies that I taket in.

And I don't like it when fs like the toxic side of allf that is so much bigger thae good side of it.

And the problem is that and it's the same thing that yu see when you when you're a teacher.

It always seems like the bg bad stuff is so much worsen all the good stuff.

So I think the big thing tt we need to remind ourselves constantly and remind our s is that the good stuff reay does usually outweigh the .

It's just the bad always ss to come out the heaviest ad all at the same time.

So I definitely think it is important for us to model t using screens as much