- Welcome to Beyond the Classroom on PBS 39.

I'm your host, Joe Pacitti, and it's a pleasure to sit down with you this evening.

When we hear the word "trauma", we begin to define what it looks like based on our own lived experiences.

We might think of tragic events, a death in the family, of situations involving online or physical bullying.

For some, the idea of trauma seems distant.

Folks might not consider their own lives traumatic based on what they see on the evening news, for example.

Defining trauma in terms of events might not be the best course of action, though.

We all live different lives, after all.

But feelings of hopelessness, fear, loss of control, anxiety, or lack of trust are universal.

Parents, children, teachers, administrators, athletes, we all experience these emotions at some point.

Tonight, I'm happy to welcome three guests who represent the best in forward-facing care for our learners and community members that have experienced trauma.

We'll dive into what trauma is, how we can respond to it, and what caregivers can do to help at home.

Let's get started.

- So, thank you all for joining us this evening, I am really excited to have three guests, one, who are doing the work that you're doing, but are coming from different frames of reference.

So, I'm not going to be able to do justice to it.

So, I want to just start over here with you, Ann Marie, if you don't mind, and we'll just go down the line.

- Sure.

I'm Dr. Ann Marie Vaughn.

I'm the principal at Clear Run Intermediate School in Pocono Mountains School District.

- My name is Becky Keptner.

I am an eighth grade English language arts teacher at Broughal Middle School in Southside Bethlehem.

- Wonderful.

- Kory Kutzler.

I'm a supervisor for Colonial Intermediate Unit 20.

- Excellent and Colonial Intermediate Unit 20 serves which county again?

- So Northampton County, Monroe County, and part of Pike.

- Excellent.

So, I've got to start with a general question, and Kory, I'll volley this question to you.

When we hear the word trauma, there's a lot of different definitions that pop up into our minds.

Could you talk us through what we'd formally define trauma as?

What does it look like from your perspective?

- You know, that's a great question.

There's a lot of different definitions out there.

I always refer to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration, their definition, which is similar to or around the idea of an event or series of events that has a lasting adverse effect on an individual's physical, mental health or wellbeing in general.

I like a kind of broad definition because I think trauma really is so individualized based on your experiences, your past experiences, and your response system.

So, I think having a pinpoint definition is tough.

- Yeah, so from a building leaders perspective, Ann Marie, can you walk us through how you see trauma in your learning population on a daily basis?

- There is no one, you know, one thing I can point it to.

It could be one trigger that we least expect that sets a kid off.

It can be shutting down.

It could be outbursts.

It can be elopement from the classroom.

Every kid responds differently.

And a lot of time is spent on identifying whatever that trigger might be for that child just so we can prevent future incidents from happening, and identifying what works for that kid.

If something were to trigger a trauma response for that child, what can we do to de-escalate them as quickly as possible, keep everyone safe?

- OK, so we're talking about a lot of different terms here, and I think that, you know, from a parent's perspective as well as an educator's perspective, this is not an area that I'm an expert in at all.

When we talk about triggers, what exactly are those?

And what would we be looking for both in the classroom and then outside of it?

- So, one thing we do every single day is a social emotional check in.

When students enter my building during homeroom, they rate themselves on a scale of one through five and let us know how they're doing for that day.

One thing, like just for instance, a week or two ago, someone mentioned to me - someone had posted, so they rated themselves, and they can add some notes for the guidance counselor, for their teachers because it is confidential.

But they noted that their dog passed away.

Our librarian who had that child that day saw that, she was doing a story about a dog that day in the library.

So, because of what she saw, because of that child's response, she actually chose to change her lesson plan for the day as to not trigger that child to be sad or to dwell on what had happened that night before.

So, it could be a story.

It could be a name.

It could be a smell, a song.

It could be anything.

It's whatever that child ties back that memory to.

We have no control over that because, a lot of times, we don't have that information going into it.

- Becky, what strategies do you use in the classroom?

- I was going to say it's interesting because working with six to eighth graders, you know, I've said this with my colleagues often, it would be easier often to address trauma if it looked like tears and sadness, and a kid needing a hug.

I mean, I think any human is going to respond to that with compassion.

But so often, trauma response looks like agitation, irritability, lashing out, shutting down, right, and a lot of behaviors that can be really difficult to approach if you don't have the patience.

So, I think one of the biggest things that we do at my school that I'm incredibly proud of is just addressing it always with patience.

You know, whatever the child needs in that moment, sometimes it is a hug, and those are great.

But very often, it's space.

It's the added amount of kindness.

It's a softer voice, even when you're frustrated.

Those are the most important tactics.

And I think we do a very good job of making sure that we're doing that for the kids.

- And obviously, patience is a virtue.

And, you know, in everyday life, particularly in these circumstances, you know?

Kory, from your perspective, I know that trainings are, you know, first and foremost your area of expertise.

Can you walk us through how classroom teachers are equipped with those tools to mitigate the traumatic circumstances that students might be going through?

- Yeah, absolutely.

And can I circle back for a minute?

I love the comment that you made, Dr. Vaughn, on the triggers.

You know, so many times with trauma, especially with young kids... And I tell our teachers, you know, our kids themselves at times don't know what the trigger is.

It could be a smell, the way someone looks, their voice.

And it's great when a kid... - Could be a lunch one day that reminds them of something that happened.

- Absolutely, great if a child can identify that trigger, you can figure that out.

But there's also a lot of times when things may have happened to a child that they can't remember or process.

So, I think for us as educators, it's just, one, important to be patient.

We always talk about every one of our trainings is to turn that train of thought to, what happened to you?

When a kid's having a behavior, when a kid's having a reaction, we don't want to say "what's wrong with you" or "why did you do that"?

We want to start having educators start asking, you know, "What happened to you to cause this?"

It gives it a different approach, which I think is... A gentler one for those kids.

- Yeah.

- And I'm sorry, back to the original question... - No problem at all.

- Was with our educators and doing trainings.

The first thing that we tried to do through the trainings is educate everyone on what is trauma, you know, what does trauma look like?

Because like I said before, it can look very different.

Everybody has...at times, people have a black-and-white kind of, well, this is trauma.

But, you know, I recently read Dr. Perry's book with Oprah Winfrey, and he talks about a fire in a school, and a firefighter coming in to fight a fire.

That's a resilient building.

That's not trauma for that firefighter.

For a fifth grader who's on the other side of the building, it might have an impact on him, that's obviously scary, gets a reaction, but it's not going to cause long-lasting trauma for a student in the classroom where the fire is right by.

A young student that doesn't have the supports, that can have a very long-lasting trauma.

So, you know, one event can affect multiple people very, very differently.

So, I think that's the first part, is educating people on trauma, educating on its impact on a child's learning, on the functioning for that child, you know, cognitively, socially so we have a better understanding.

From there, once we start talking about the brain, how it impacts the brain, then we go into what you can do in your classroom, what strategies, techniques, coping skills, social emotional learnings and check-ins can you do, how to handle those behaviors in a way that can teach children, not exclude children.

And then, lastly, we really focus on trauma in yourself vicarious trauma, compassion fatigue, and really just building up that resilience in yourself, because they're difficult jobs.

- So when we talk about the experience of trauma, and you had mentioned, each of you, that it looks very different depending on who the individual is, what are other types?

You had mentioned a couple about how students can feel?

What about teachers or adults, and particularly people at home?

- Teachers definitely experience trauma, whether it's the secondary or vicarious trauma, like Kory mentioned, seeing a child respond that way or seeing a child in that traumatic state can have a lasting effect on that teacher.

But teachers too, you know, divorce causes it, hunger, sadness, loss of a relative.

Our teachers experience that every day as well, so I think it's important as a school leader that we recognize that our children bring trauma, their families bring trauma, but so do our teachers and our staff.

So, it's important to recognize that and support that.

- And I understand that in your building in particular, you do have a space for staff to work through that stuff.

Would you tell us a little bit more?

- Absolutely.

Yeah, we do.

We actually took part, Kory started the trauma training up at our school, Clear Run Intermediate School, and one of the first things we did, we built rest and restore rooms for our staff.

So, not only can we support our students when they're having a time, but when our staff just need to step back, they can relax, go into these rooms where it's quiet, no students allowed.

We have massage chairs in there.

We have relaxing lights, and stuff like that, just so teachers can have their own space when they need to step away and take a few moments, as well.

- When students need to do that, Becky, what does that look like in your room?

- I was just going to say... - I knew you were.

- Yeah, that was good.

So, a couple of years ago, we started Peace Corners.

So there's a comfortable chair.

We actually have a privacy screen now, as well.

That was an addition for this year.

Health-wise and also the privacy aspect of it.

So, one of the best things about this is we're keeping our kids in the classroom.

So, you mentioned about elopement from the classroom.

So, you know, middle school is rife with triggers, and that's minus trauma even.

I mean, just the nature of the environment.

So, if a student is shutting down or having a bad reaction, now they have the option of going to the peace corner.

We usually will do kind of a number check-in, as well.

Ours goes up to ten, that's as you get older.

and the kids will sit in the peace corner.

They have manipulatives, things to play with and manipulate, connect the dots, coloring books.

And very often they'll spend 5-10 minutes in that seat, and then they'll come back into class.

And what's great is they're still in the classroom with us.

So I will be teaching a lesson.

Someone will be in the chair, but they'll still be having the education surrounding them.

They have not avoided it.

It's a coping mechanism.

"Let me stay here and see if I can do this."

I had a kid the other day stick his head out from behind the screen and answer one of the questions I was asking the class, which was wonderful.

So, it does allow for a space away from other students, time for them to process their triggers.

I don't go over there.

I don't get myself involved unless they want me to.

And then, they often will come back and kind of refreshed.

And it has worked really well.

I think we might've been a little skeptical in the beginning, but it really has proven those 5-10 minutes make a world of difference.

- And it's just wonderful to see that they have options too, something that they can associate with and find joy in to calm themselves down.

- And they don't have to leave the classroom.

They don't have to run away from it.

They can stay there with us.

Now, that being said, if they spend some time there and just whatever they're dealing with is big enough that they are having a tough time, we have a peace room.

So, we have a wonderful peace room facilitator.

She does mindfulness techniques with them, breathing techniques, usually one-on-one, but sometimes group work with the students.

And she has done an amazing job over the past couple of years.

And the kids really respect her and trust that that room is a safe space for them.

- That's excellent.

And to have that dedicated person to do that, too.

So it's not just, you know, the purview of just the teacher.

Kory, in terms of broad scope of trauma-informed care, or this idea of trauma-informed schools, this is a relatively new concept, or I wouldn't say new, but in the last decade, we've really seen a lot of this coming about.

Could you speak to why this came about, you know, in terms of an area of study?

And why is this something that we're focusing on now?

- You know, I love that question.

And when I think about it in the studies we've done, the ACEs study, when you look at it, Adverse Childhood Experiences, was done with 17,000 people.

And I believe that was done in 1998.

So, when you look at the age of that study and how long it's taken to get some motivation, I really think it's just been everything going on in the world, everything, you know, people being more educated.

I think that's bringing a lot of light to trauma.

People are starting to realize this is or could be a public health crisis that needs to be addressed.

You know, and the study talks about that, they have studies correlating trauma to health outcomes.

There's a lot of studies on it that show, you know, early adversity leads to negative health outcomes or could, depending on, you know, what you have in place, systems to help.

So I think everything like that just sheds light on this.

And we see a need for I think, you know, I think in society in general, we see a need for trauma-informed care.

And it's starting to hit education, which I think is a great place to start.

You know, we talk about kids using peace corners and things like that.

And I think it's important that kids learn these skills young.

It's going to help them in the future.

- And from a building perspective too, Dr. Vaughn, you know, one of the things I'm curious about is, you talked about the health impacts, Kory.

You know, how that can impact longitudinally how, you know, outcomes for health.

Academically, what kind of effects do we see that trauma has on the students?

- I mean, I think first and foremost, there are no academics.

If a child is in a trauma response, they're in fight-or-flight.

Their only goal or purpose is survival, at that point.

Two plus two means nothing to them.

You know, "how do I stay safe" is really what it is.

So until we can work with our children, so, I mean, there's always going to be trauma.

I would love to say, like I say on our one-to-five scale, it would be great if no one checked in on a five.

But that's not the purpose of the scale.

Our purpose of our scale is to be able to identify those kids at of five and help them with the coping mechanisms moving forward so that they can be in school, they can learn, because that's ultimately the goal of school.

But part of our instruction is teaching them to get past their triggers, to get past their responses.

They're real.

It's OK to feel that way.

But how do we continue on with our learning?

So, we work really hard in working with our kids, our teachers, and our families with how to move forward with that and get the best education possible.

- As an antecedent, they have to feel safe and accepted in order for anything to happen.

- They're not going to be able to learn without that.

- And I'm interested to hear, and this is really for anybody in terms of, you know, the age of a student.

We have middle level, we have intermediate, high school.

What does it look like?

How does it change?

How early should we be starting with these kinds of inventories or check-ins and strategies for kids?

- Something you said just before, I wanted to respond to, that idea that if we can start early, that the kids, we could have this impact by intervening early.

The idea of knowing that there are adults that can be trusted and that you can express your feelings and not be treated negatively or any worse, but actually taken care of and protected, I mean, that's wonderful, it's wonderful that we're doing it at such a young age, you know, and I know for middle school, there is kind of a built distrust, you know, with middle school students.

I mean, I think teenagers in general, right, it's kind of this "the world is against me "and I'm going to fight back."

So, just reiterating for them that there are people that are going to be consistent, they're going to be reliable, they're going to be trustworthy.

They're going to honor your feelings.

They're not going to humiliate you.

Just imagine what kind of adults they grow up to be after being taught that for so many years, so consistently.

I mean, I just... That sounds like a better world to live in to me.

- And there's a quote I keep hearing over and over again right now, recently, "it's OK to not be OK".

And for kids and families to be able to embrace that, it's OK to have these responses.

But like Kory said, the question we approach like, well, "How did that make you feel?"

Not "what's wrong with you?"

We don't ever start a statement with that.

But how did that make you feel?

And if someone does something to you to be able to explain that to another person, "you made me feel sad when you did that to me."

Like, it has such gravity, and even the other person is able to understand what caused that, and how it made them feel.

- I think I think what you guys touched on, too, is when you're talking about trauma, that safety, and when you look at school in general, you know, how is a student going to learn if they don't feel safe?

You know, how will they open up if they don't feel safe?

And what it all comes back to, I think, with trauma, and I say this over and over with all the trainings that Nicky Baker and I do for the IU, you know, is healing happens with relationships.

You know, the student has to, you have to be able to build that relationship with the student and build that trust.

And sometimes that takes time.

And I know the initial question started with the different age groups and, you know, elementary students, sometimes you can quickly build a relationship through play, things like that.

Sometimes it may take a long time to build trust, depending on their experiences.

Even that relationship part, a lot of it's based on prior experiences and what support system kids have.

- And I think for each of us probably sitting here, and I would imagine folks watching, too, had some variety of trauma or traumatic event occur to them at some point in their lives.

And I'm just reflecting on my own experience, I wish, you know, in high school when my traumatic event happened, that that trigger had been something that, like, having these coping mechanisms or really just the empathy, and trusted adults were the people that I was able to go to and, you know, my family, of course.

But a lot of those things that we're teaching kids that we're equipping them with is remarkable, and I think really necessary.

You know, so in terms of what this looks like for people who might say, because I have heard this and I'm sure that you have as well, "How much time are we spending "on doing this and why are we spending more time on "instruction," or what people think to be instruction?

Do you see that tension playing out, like, in your classroom, for example?

- Absolutely.

And you said this before, Dr. Vaughn, that the kids cannot learn, they cannot, if they are in a negative response.

They cannot learn and, if a teacher is trying to force learning on a kid who is not doing well, they're both going to end up in a really bad place, teacher and student.

So, you know, when they say how much time needs to be spent, as much as you need, I mean, our job, and I take this very seriously, yes, is to educate kids, but it is to care for them and to protect them, and to help them grow into solid, happy, confident adults.

And they have to know that their well-being is the first thing that's important, not, "Am I going to get through my lesson plan "on poetic elements today?"

No, it's, "Is Miss Keptner recognizing that I am "in distress right now?"

And when I do, when I can build that relationship, when any of us can... Of course, they want to learn from us at that point.

You know, they care.

They want to learn from us because they trust us.

And they know that if they are having a rough day, that we are not going to shame them or let them struggle and do nothing to help them.

And that's so valuable.

You get a much better education when you have teachers that care about you.

And sometimes, that means that you have to put some real work in for them.

And I think we're all prepared to do that.

You know, everyone I know.

- So, this has always been a struggle for me, how do we communicate that effectively to parents and caregivers?

- I tell you, I always ask, the question I ask is, think back when you were in school, which class did you learn the most?

Which teacher is the most memorable?

Chances are, it's a teacher that you had trust in a relationship with.

And think about the classroom teacher that you struggled with the most.

Did you get a lot out of that class?

Do you remember a lot from that class?

You know, most of the time, you'll find that those classes you remember a lot of the negative events and not so much the academics, where a lot of times the teachers that are most memorable to you, you can remember things you learned in that classroom.

I think it's just, you know, I think it's really educating parents as, you know, everybody on what trauma is, its impacts, if kids feel trust, feel safe, have built those relationships, we're going to get way more out of those kids academically than without those things in place.

- So, what do you suggest teachers do as a forward-facing strategy, in addition to what Kory was just talking about, to really hone in on this as a focal point for parents at home?

- I mean, one of the biggest things I think for me has always been, show up and keep showing up.

Like, these kids, they're going to learn the best, like you said, from those who care, they know who cares.

They know, you know, who is there maybe for another reason or whatever.

But teachers, just building that relationship, taking the time, read that story, you know, just something to interact with the kids and for the appropriate social developments and stuff.

I think that's what it just comes down to.

These kids, especially the past 18-20 months, have been through something none of us could have planned for or anything.

And you know, the math is important, the reading is important but, like I said, we can't get there without getting past the social emotional learning first, or the trauma, anything that's impacted their learning.

- And as for the caregivers, I've never met a parent or a guardian who is unhappy when we tell them that we need to spend some time working with their student, using the peace room, finding them counseling services.

Like, I've never, ever encountered a parent who wasn't happy, wasn't, you know, asking me when the academics.

were going to happen.

They're always very happy to know that their child is being cared for holistically when they're at school.

- How do we get that information?

From a parent's perspective, if I'm contacting somebody at the school or the school district, and I'm trying to get information about why my child is acting out, or why they're disengaged with work, what is the tactful way to do that?

And who am I touching base with?

- I'd say guidance counselors are usually the point person, especially in my building.

We're very proactive with reaching out to parents.

If we spoke with your child that day, you're most likely getting a phone call from us explaining the what and the why.

Why did we talk to your child?

Why did we have a conference?

Why did we do a restorative conversation?

And just getting the parents to be active roles in their child's education.

If they understand the why, like she said, there's usually no issues moving forward.

So, just taking the time.

And that's the other thing, too.

Don't send an email, pick up the phone, you know, schedule a parent-teacher conference.

Let them know that your time is just as valuable as their time is.

But we care enough about your child to take that time out of our day, to have that phone call, to have that meeting, not just throw out an email.

- I couldn't agree more with the email.

Just don't do email.

Or texting, you know, depending on the context.

So, in terms of takeaways for families at home that are looking for some tangible strategies where they can engage their own children in conversation, what would you recommend they do when they're coming home at the end of the day, either from work, perhaps they're stressed, as well?

What does that look like?

- So, I think when parents coming home from work stressed, it's so important for our parents to show our kids that self-care is OK, making sure they're in a good place.

You know, they're practicing, whether it's yoga, meditation, deep breathing, walks.

You know, there's so many strategies out there for-self care.

I think that parents modeling that for kids is important.

And then, I think the next step, too, is taking the time just to sit down and talk with your kids and truly listen.

Let your kids talk about their days, the good, the bad.

Don't be dismissive.

Talk about their feelings.

The more we could open that communication, I think the stronger the relationship will be.

And that's going to ultimately help that child.

You know, again, studies have shown that, you know, whether you have an ACE score of one or five, or a lot of trauma, a little trauma, you know, your support system, your social network and support system is going to have a greater impact on your resiliency in the long run.

So, the more systems you have in place showing support, showing care, and I like to say that, too, like, teachers and parents, and school districts, we're a partnership to help that student.

We're a support system for that student.

You know, you get the bus driver involved, cafeteria workers involved, you know, coaches, another big one in sports, involved.

You know, the more support you have for that student, the better things are going to be in the long run.

- Excellent.

Emphasizing that partnership is huge, too.

We're all here for the same reason, that's important.

And I tend to remind the parents a lot, because I make a lot of phone calls, I make a lot of parent-teacher conferences, and I said, "I'm coming at this as an administrator.

"Here's what I'd do as an administrator.

"Here's what I'd do as a teacher.

"But here's what I'd do as a parent."

I've got three kids at home, too, and if this happened to my child or if my child was responding this way, these are some of the things I'd put in place.

So, you know, sometimes the parents forget we're human, too, you know, I know I'm a school administrator, but I'm a mom of three.

That's what it boils down to at the end.

So, making that connection back with the parents, the relationships, like Kory mentioned, with the parents, that's huge.

- Yeah, that's excellent.

- So, Becky.

We'll end it with you.

- Well, I was going to say, you know, so much of a bad day will manifest in behaviors that parents aren't going to like.

So, like I said, irritability, snapping, you know, the short fuse, all of that.

So, patience is always my advice.

Dig deep sometimes.

Sometimes you got to find it in the well.

But, you know, extending that patience to your child and the same for teachers, you know, extending that patience to the child can make a world of difference.

Those few extra minutes that child has without anybody giving them a hard time would do wonders for them, being able to come out of it and rise up a little bit after a particularly tough day.

- That's excellent.

Patience in everything and everything.

- Yeah, easier said than done.

- Absolutely.

Absolutely.

- You know, can't say it enough.

- Well, I want to thank each of you for coming on, this has been a wonderful conversation, I know that I learned a lot and I know that this is really helpful for folks at home to hear what you're doing every single day.

And thank you so much for everything that you're doing.

- So, Dr. Vaughn, thank you.

- Thank you.

- Kory, thank you again for coming out.

I appreciate it.

As the proverb goes, it takes a village to raise a child.

And we hope that you'll consider our program a part of your village.

Do you have questions or comments?

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I'm your host, Joe Pacitti.

Goodnight.