- [Announcer] Production and distribution of City Club Forums on Ideastream are made possible by the generous support of PNC, and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.

(bright upbeat music) (bell dings) - Hello and welcome to the City Club Cleveland where we are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

I'm Dan Moulthrop, chief executive here and a proud member.

Today is June 4th, and you're with a virtual City Club forum live from the City Club.

Big thanks again to our production partners at Ideastream for helping us bring the forum back here to the City Club.

And believe me, we will be welcoming you back here very shortly.

Last June, a year ago about roughly, the Karamu House presented Freedom on Juneteenth, an original theatrical production and artistic response to the recent murders of Black Americans through.

And this was a presentation through music, dance, and spoken word.

Within the first 24 hours, more than 50,000 people across the country had watched the production.

It was a production in keeping with the tradition of Karamu House, the nation's oldest multicultural arts institution.

Originally called the Playhouse Settlement, it was founded in 1915 by two Oberlin College grads as a place where people of all races, creeds, and religions could find common ground.

Playhouse Settlement became an active contributor to the Harlem Renaissance, and became a magnet for emerging African-American artists including Langston Hughes and Zora Neale Hurston.

In 1941, it was renamed Karamu.

That's the Swahili word for a place of joyful gathering.

Around the time of its hundredth anniversary, Karamu faced a crisis.

Their tax-exempt status had been revoked, staff had been laid off, and funding and audiences had declined dramatically.

And then along came Tony Sias, the Director of Arts Education for the Cleveland Metro School District, and the artistic director at Cleveland School of the Arts.

And he was named president and CEO of Karamu.

Under his leadership, Karamu underwent a profound transformation, one American Theater magazine called quote, "One of the most overlooked success stories in American theater."

We will overlook it no more.

Tony Sias is with us today to talk about that transformation and the institution's ongoing commitment to bringing to light the critical issues shaping the Black American experience.

Tony Sias, welcome to the City Club.

- It is an honor to be here with you today, Dan.

- It is so great to have you.

If you have questions for Tony, you can text those questions to (330) 541-5794 that's (330) 541-5794.

You can also tweet those questions at the City Club and we will work them into our program.

Second half, as you know is reserved for audience Q and A. Tony, I just wanna start out by asking how you are because these last few weeks between the commemoration of the death of George Floyd a year ago, and the commemoration of the Tulsa Massacre, 100 years ago, these are really heavy, heavy times.

- These are heavy times, and I am doing well, but I have to say that this past year I realized the toll that it takes on continuously producing during this time and the content of doing the work.

So I've had to kinda step back and do a little self care in the midst of it all.

- (laughs) What does that look like for you?

- Some walking, now that the weather's changed, getting my hands dirty, doing some lawn work and trying to stay consistent with my trainer.

and eating right.

But those are the kinds of things I'm trying to do.

- Yeah, it has been a really heavy time and in the midst of it too, there's this, I mean like, life is always like this.

There's the heaviness of life, the sadness that we carry with us, the crisis that we face and then the joy of the way in which life is beginning to return back to normal.

I know last night you hosted an event in the parking lot Karamu.

- Yes, so we had our benefit.

It was a hybrid event and it was entitled Karamu Rising.

So people were able to join us online and a hundred of our dearest Karamu friends and patrons joined us in the parking lot of Karamu and we had a lovely evening.

- But let's, really dig in here, Tony and I mean, last year, we had this time last year you were furiously rewriting and changing completely the, what you were planning to present for Juneteenth.

You had one, prior to the murder of George Floyd the tragic murder of George Floyd, you had sort of one idea and then that happened.

And the world changed, I mean, the world changed entirely when that happened and everybody everybody's plans shifted and everybody's priorities shifted and rightly so.

You talk a little bit about what happened then for Karamu.

- So we were originally going to do a Bill Withers concert and so to celebrate Juneteenth.

And at the point that George Floyd was murdered I called the staff and said, "Hey, concert canceled.

We're gonna create an original piece because we have to respond to this."

In the midst of this pandemic, we still have to use our, the Karamu as an institution to respond, to give voice, to presenting a piece of work that speaks to the historical trajectory of African-Americans in this country.

But we wanted to, it was important to us to do a couple of things, to celebrate, educate, and activate.

So we needed to celebrate Juneteenth and what it truly is the emancipation of enslaved Africans in this country.

We needed to educate people about the work and Juneteenth, but also to activate the community, to use the arts as a vehicle to begin to move people forward and understanding what this black experience has been about.

And it was undeniable at the point that George Floyd was murdered.

Some of the things that's, the issues that we've been talking about for hundreds of years became very undeniable through the platform of social media.

- The, Juneteenth we should explain, because I know there are audience members right now who are, who don't know exactly what Juneteenth refers to June 19th, the day when at last finally, news of the emancipation reached the is said to have reached the last group of enslaved African, people of African descent.

- Yes, in Galveston, Texas and so for two and a half years after the emancipation proclamation had been signed there were still thousands of enslaved black folks.

And so that moment meant that truly all people were free, June 19th, 1865.

- And yet, I mean, there is this ongoing conversation about how free people truly are.

And I wanna ask you about how like, culture has shifted over the last year, because it seems to me that there is something substantively different happening in this, in our re in our nation today, in actually around the world in a lot of ways that black culture and American culture and the ways in which those, I mean, they're not two individual things but the way in which all of that fits together, there's a, It's, it feels like the racial, if you use the word racial reckoning is sort of shorthand for these moments that we've had.

There was reconstruction and the failure of reconstruction.

There was the civil rights era, which may have been the second reconstruction.

And then there's now, which some people are saying might be a third reconstruction another racial reckoning, this feels different than other moments in our lifetimes.

And I don't know if you feel that as an, as a presenter of the, as an arts presenter and as a creative person yourself.

- I do feel that, and it kinda goes back to the undeniable moment of how George Floyd was murdered and that we've talked about policing and the relationship and how black are treated differently.

And that the aha moment to say, no something happened.

This is really personal for me I say this.

Is that me as a black man, watching the landscape even in our city that there's an acknowledgement that something very traumatic did happen and that there's an acknowledgement that something had been happening prior to now.

So you see organizations and institutions many of whom have made statements about being anti-racist acknowledging the past and then there's others who have gone beyond just a statement but have put an action, prioritizing equity within their institutions and organizations.

And to then follow up behind a grandiose statement with action is really huge and I feel like there are many more organizations and institutions that have the opportunity to follow up with actionable steps, aligned to a budget and a timeline that is baked into a strategic consciousness and plan for organization.

But I do see those who have taken action, who are then becoming the leaders in helping others understand the importance of doing this and how to do it.

And it's not one size fits all, and organizations and institutions have their own priorities and have to unpack and really do a reflection on how have they co-existed and operated as organizations?

Has diversity and equity and inclusion been central to their their mission?

Have they had leadership but, in positions, but how effective have those leaders in organizations been in creating equity?

And so I am seeing that, and I see people responding to Karamu in a very unique way.

We're having conversations that historically it was hard to get conversations with some folks, and now being invited to have conversations, to better understand who we are as an institution and us better understanding who they are as organization.

- Say more about that.

Like, what do you mean?

Are you talking about corporate philanthropy being more engaged or are you talking about a different level of civic engagement and a different kind of role for Karamu?

- Well, I think it's a combination of both of course, corporate engagement, but it's civic engagement.

So as a result of us producing since June of last year, 13 different pieces some for private organizations that says, "Hey, we see you figured out how to produce in this pandemic.

Can you produce something for us?"

But we found that there's some corporations that are interested in us working with them and developing content that would align to their a DEI strategy.

So we don't wanna, we're not the content experts in diversity equity inclusion but we do and finding yourself doing it was creating content so that they can use theater as a part of that vehicle.

Now, is this new?

No, but in the seminal moment people that kind of shied away from it, 15, 20 years ago, you had organizations that would use theater and some of the games to engage corporates.

But right now, what we're really seeing is that the narratives and stories we're able to create, create a sense of empathy in terms of better understanding.

And how do we use that as a springboard to moving the needle forward for people to really be able to reflect to be able to say, there is, there are different choices that we should be able to make and we should be able to work together.

And the work is collaborative and everybody's work is individual.

- It's interesting that, I mean, you say you're not content experts in diversity, equity and inclusion.

I would say that your content experts in the human experience.

I mean, that is an and you sort of put the, hit it very cleanly, the nail on the head with the, noting that the capacity of theater to create empathy.

and it does seem to me that so much of, well there's a friend of ours in the community you may know Jackie Acho who talks about like empathy deficit disorder.

And so much of what we are facing in terms of the challenges of frankly if, white people waking up to reality is about a deficit of empathy.

An inability to kind of understand.

- Well, I have a a dear friend of Karamu who's been working with us over the last past year and a half, and I questioned how much experience he had with black folks.

And so through conversations, he said to me, he says, Tony, I've been working with Karamu House Center to your mission as African-American experience.

I've, I feel like I'm having a better understanding of who you are as an institution and not necessarily what it means to be black, but some of the challenges that may come along with it, he said "So we should have some time to talk offline."

So we got together and for 16 hours, we hung out, we ate, we had the difficult conversation.

There was a little shouting.

- There was shouting?

What was the content of the difficult conversation.

- Well, I think there are stereotypes that come along with what do people say when others have like them are not in the room?

And really asking some of those questions.

What are some of the perceptions of black folks to white folks, black, white folks to black folks?

And really having those conversations and their politics became a part of it.

Who really takes the deep dive on politics, knowing that we may be on different ends of the continuum.

And so it was really interesting having that conversation and I think that it's important for people to really have the conversations, the difficult conversations and go in it with a clear understanding that this is really centered on better understanding and that it's not gonna, it doesn't have to necessarily have to be pretty.

It has to be respectful.

- [Dan] It has to be real.

- And it has to first and foremost, Dan, it has to be real.

So the next day I was exhausted and could not move.

- [Dan] really?

- Because of what I invested in the conversation and was so pleased that he said, let's talk.

And I walked out with an awareness that we both walked out with a newfound respect for each other.

Of course, you've heard the term before a brother by another mother that it really sealed that friendship in that relationship.

- What did you learn?

- That stereotypes and I always knew this, but it was underscored.

Stereotypes are really real for others and guide them, that the lack of it's important to really help people understand accurate history, because there's a history of the mind and then there's the truth and real history.

And quite often, just based on in our educational systems around the country, American history in its true form is not accurately told from my perspective.

And so I feel like there's an opportunity to continue to highlight the truth.

It's important and people say, oh, you get stuck in history but it doesn't move the needle.

No, we need to start, we need to be clear on from whence we cometh but where this started, what's the cause and effect.

And so that was one of the couple of things that I learned in that the experience.

- The next production coming up at Karamu which is still a virtual online production.

I'm not a fan of the word virtual because it makes it sound like it's not real and it's very real.

Is "Greenwood", talk about "Greenwood."

- So "Greenwood: An American Dream Destroyed" is about the destruction of the Tulsa Massacre "Black Wall Street."

And for 60, 70 years, most people did not know about the Tulsa Massacre that there were over 600 businesses destroyed, 300 plus people killed.

Black people and they had created this incredible thriving communities.

There were people who are oil barons, black folks who were oil barons, they had their own banks.

It was a self-sustaining community that the dollars in that community went around six times if I'm not mistaken before it left the community.

And white Tulsa 100 years ago was furious about that.

And the inciting incident to the massacre was a young man who got on an elevator and the elevator operator, according to the story did not level off the elevator to the floor.

He tripped.

And he reached for her trying, well didn't reach for what he was reaching not to fall.

He grabbed her, she had a huge reaction.

Then the merchants in the other parts of the store it was a domino effect and within.

- [Dan] It involved a newspaper as well.

- And it involved a newspaper as well.

- Publicized the lynching.

- Publicizing the lynching and has historically kinda stirred the pot around the "Greenwood" community of Tulsa.

So the story in "Greenwood: An American Dream Destroyed" is told through the eyes of the Boley family and this.

- [Dan] Were they historical family?

- No, it's the facts and actions in the play are real.

This is a, it's a fictional, fictionalized family that represents many of the families of the affluent black folks in Tulsa.

- It's an extraordinary production and really kinda jammed with the history and with the story of "Greenwood" which even in the last few years there's been more attention paid to the Tulsa Massacre thanks to the HBO series "Watchman" which opens with that and other journalistic pieces and the in Te-Nehisi Coats several years ago right in the case for reparations in which he reminded his readers of those events.

But none of that tells the story of what it was like to be a family there, or really paints the full picture and the texture of life there in the same way that this production does.

- Well, because the action of the play takes place in the family diner.

And so you have community members coming in and out.

So although you see the Boley family, who's, again, on a fluent family in town, you see a couple of vets who come in, who reflect back on World War I you see one woman who lives with a white family in T Town as she refers to it.

Who comes over to "Greenwood" as often as she can to immerse herself in black culture and so you see the diversity within a culture, you see the diversity within the community and you see and feel the spirit of "Greenwood."

The playwright, Celeste Bedford Walker has done an incredible job of just this cornucopia of characters coming together to be a part of this experience.

- What was it like for your actors to participate in this?

I, the fans of Karamu others will recognize many of the faces and the names and in the, in "Greenwood."

What did it mean to those colleagues of yours to create this and bring this to life?

- Well, first of all, it was an educational experience for us all because when we talk about the Boley family they weren't real, but some of the characters in the play were real.

So like Dr. Jackson, who was celebrate it by the Mayo brothers for his work as a surgeon, he's in the play and he's actually a real figure.

So just the level of research.

- So it's Jimmy James.

- And so it's yes, Jimmy Johnson.

- [Dan] Pardon me, Jimmy Johnson.

- And he renamed himself Dick Rowland.

- [Dan] He's the victim?

- Yes, he is the young man who was accused of assaulting the white woman.

So it poses.

- I was asking about the, about your, the actors.

The Karamu actors.

- So it was really, we spent a lot of time doing table work and in the theater that's sitting down and really unpacking the show.

Better understanding who these characters are which are they fictional or not.

So, just like, I think the Boley name comes from, I think that's a, Boley Oklahoma.

Understanding about the native American experience in Oklahoma unpacking that work.

It was just really rich to get that deep in the history and to really better understand what happened because then it took us to know there are other boom towns that were referred to black thriving towns that back then were really active, Rosewood, we know about that.

So it was really a history lesson for us all.

And I think the other biggest piece and this is from an artistic perspective is that we rehearsed for three weeks in mask.

And so the first day we took off mask was the first day of filming.

So me as a director.

- Oh gosh.

- There were a couple of actors who I had not worked with before.

So when they took their mask off I didn't know who they were.

And that was really, really funny.

Or as an actor or a director I've seen your eyes and half of your face.

So then I get to see your face on the first day of filming.

I'm responding to something, half of what I've not experienced.

- No I don't want you to make that face, I need you to smile more, I need you to.

- (laughs) Okay, so it blew my mind and so as a director, I was like, "Whoa okay, what do you do?"

Because the clock is ticking and the.

- And you're paying for the film crew.

- Yes, most importantly you're paying the film crew.

- Lemme just remind our audience that you were the City Club Friday Forum.

I'm Dan Moulthrop chief executive here and today we're our guest is Tony Silas he's president and CEO of Karamu House.

Also clearly the creative director there and Karamu House is the oldest multicultural arts institution in the United States and it's right here in Cleveland, Ohio.

And if you don't know about it, you really should.

If you have questions for Tony (330) 541-5794 is the number to text your question, (330) 541-5794.

If you're on Twitter, please tweet that question at the City Club and we will work it in.

Tony it's been an extraordinary moment is, I was alluding to earlier about the ways in which black culture has increased, it's always been important.

I don't know how to say this but there's more attention being paid to the, to black cultures and black creators of culture right now.

Then there has been in the past by and I'm sort of thinking by like mainstream and people are turning to places like Karamu the artists that you present to help build the empathy, create the empathy, inspire the empathy that seems to be lacking so much.

It's an extraordinary sort of moment to be running the oldest multicultural arts institution in the United States.

I have to imagine that you have big visions for Karamu.

- Yeah, well as we sit and talk about the oldest multicultural organization in the country.

We are a black organization, unapologetically black.

But it's an institution for all.

So when you begin to talk about the actors that we work with they represent the diversity of Cleveland and the country.

And it's us telling these stories that are inclusive in the storytelling of whites and blacks and Asians and the list goes on and native Americans.

And so it's important to really be able to say black.

You know black was a thing that we didn't say for a long time and that, so I was a part of a panel discussion somewhere and no market research.

And there was a question, oh, is it black?

Or is it African-American?

Or would you prefer to be bipack?

And I said, I've been black longer than I was African-American so I'm black, and I'm okay being black.

And you can self, anybody can self identify in any way which they choose.

So in this seminal moment, I just think it's important that this talent has always been here.

The vision and desire to tell stories has always been there we've always been telling the stories.

I feel like an institution like Karamu for a period of time our audiences were not as diverse as the audiences were when Russell and Rowena Jelliffe a Jewish couple founded the organization 100 and now six years ago.

And so we're looking at these days that our audiences are diverse.

That panel discussions are inclusive of diversity and that that's something we stand proud to talk about these days, and that people have found a new found value for the institution.

And I think it's about a couple of things.

I think we've got an incredible board of directors and that I'm honored to say we've mustered an incredible leadership team.

That's passionate about the work that is as diverse as Cleveland and something I say with pride, my entire leadership team, I'm the only male on that team.

So it's this, I, I'm honored to work with this incredible group of women who are in partnership with me in leading the organization.

- I have to imagine that there are places on the coast institutions, arts institutions on the coast that are thinking about and noticing Karamu in ways that they maybe hadn't five or six or seven or eight years ago because of the importance of the works that you're presenting and the ways in which you present them.

Is that the case?

- So we are having more conversations with folks on the coast and one of the things that we're working to do is to say, Karamu is a place for you.

Come, let's have a conversation.

What work do you want interested in talking about and presenting?

So we look forward to it and hopefully this fall we'll be able to share more in the near future about how we engage some of our alums and friends on either of the coast.

- Speaking of this fall, when are you opening?

When will people be able to, I know we're sitting in an empty auditorium right now here at the City Club.

And as somebody who's whose work is bringing people together for a communal experience on a stage, it's not theater but it's not unlike theater.

(both laugh) I can't wait to bring people back.

I can't wait to have an audience in this room.

When will people be able to be in the audience at Karamu?

- We, October.

- October?

- October, we are excited to announce the season in July and I was hoping I would have had to be able to share that with audience today.

- I was hopping that too, I really was.

I mean, let's be honest.

But you'll have an announcement sometime soon.

- Yes, in July we will make a formal announcement about 20, 2021, 2022 season.

- And in the meantime, I haven't actually asked you given you a chance to talk about Juneteenth this year.

- So, we are partnering with Downtown Cleveland Alliance and Ingenuity Festival just to, something called Freedom Fest and it's gonna be on June 19th on Mall C and I have to say that DCA came to us Heather and Michael, and mentioned the fact that they had an idea about bringing the city together downtown doing Juneteenth.

And of course Karamu who had planned to have a celebration at our parking lot.

And so we are really excited about bringing the community together.

And I did, before I go here I need to say this, it's important that Juneteenth celebrations have been happening in pockets of the community for many years.

And we want the community to continue to participate in neighborhood activities.

That's so important, but we want the community and neighborhood activity to really say let's all come together in a central location downtown to celebrate Juneteenth.

So that we are part of the community and people integrate that into their day on June 19th.

- Help's that it's a Saturday.

- And it does help that it's a Saturday.

I think doors will open at noon.

Programming will start somewhere about one or two o'clock there'll be community stage, a community stage that ingenuity is taking the lead on programming.

I think there are a number of vendors and then there'll be a main stage.

We're excited that Karamu we'll have a feature on the main stage.

Mariama White will be one of the features but we're also excited about having some national artists come in.

So we are excited to have Terry Lyne Carrington and the social society band, Lisa Fischer and a great new artist, her name is Mumu Fresh.

And so they will be our headliners for the evening and we will close the evening off with fireworks.

So we're excited about that and it's just so great that Karamu gets to partner with such incredible organizations like Downtown Cleveland Alliance to bring the community together for such an important celebration.

- Well congratulations on that.

The Mall C for those who don't know is the one that is Northern most of the malls, the ones that you would face the closest to the lake, if you're coming downtown for that.

And that is on June 19th, of course Tony Sias of Karamu House is with us today at the City Club Friday Forum.

Again, if you have a question for Tony, please text it to (330) 541 5794 or tweet it at the City Club, and we will work it in.

Got a few questions for you here, Tony.

The, you just answered one of them but which was about what's next post pandemic and when do, does in-person theater resume?

But do you still have plans for an outdoor stage?

- We are so excited.

So our plans are still to have an outdoor stage of course, something happened called a pandemic and we had to put a pause, our construction.

So hopefully our plan is by this time next summer that we'll be having a grand opening for our outdoor stage, a bistro, a completely new design land streetscape on our Quincy Avenue side and a plaza.

And so we had a paver campaign and people could buy a paver that be, own the plaza and we're gonna have a huge marquee that will be promoting events and activities that's happening inside of Karamu House.

So that corner of east 89th in Quincy will become a destination location.

So that once you get there, you know that you have arrived to Karamu House and our vision for the future the ACE district, the arts culture and education district and the heart of the historic Fairfax community.

- So Tony, the, when you came on board in 2015 Karamu had a bunch of different programs there was early childhood ed, there was some other things, and you had to pair all of that back and get back to the nuts and bolts and the basic stuff of presenting theater arts.

It sounds like you're branching out again, expanding a little bit.

You'd mentioned a bistro.

- Yeah, so there's an opportunity to have more healthy eating choices in Fairfax and work is happening.

There's the grocery store coming soon but we want it to kinda be a little kinda one-stop shop.

So we want a person to be able to come to the theater and have a pre-show cocktail, which we've always had cocktails and then something to gnash on if you need to grab something really quickly before a show and something to grab if you wanna grab something after a show so that people can come and have a complete evening on the Karamu Campus.

And that's one of the things that we're excited about.

To be able to have that complete experience and that even when there are not productions going on we have, we do community programs which really does include, are in the tradition series, which is Kwanzaa, Blood MLK Day, celebrating Black History Month.

But we do comedy, we do we do poetry.

We have panel discussions and book signings.

And so people should be able to come to Karamu not just for production, but to say, "Hey, I need to meet Dan about a business matter, let's meet in the bistro, let's grab something to eat and let's talk."

So it's, Karamu is the word for "A joyful gathering place" and we really want to live the meaning of that word that people come there and it is a joyful gathering.

- Wonderful, so how does Karamu House, this is an interesting question.

How does Karamu House support its actors when they're reenacting very traumatic events and experiences from the past?

There's an emotional toll there.

I mean, that's sort of true of all actors all serious actors, but in particular there's something unique I think about in particular, what you're taking on with "Greenwood."

- So, quite often there intimacy coaches when they're intimate moments, but what we do is we stop and we debrief and we have conversations.

I think that one of the things that we had one actor who says, "Hey, this really took a toll on me."

So we were able to contact some of our friends in the community, in the mental health space to say we need this support and to have that conversation and to guide individuals into this, into that space because health, mental health is really an issue in the African-American community that sometimes not really given the necessary attention, I think about and this is a conversation that Aseelah who is the operations director at community programs person.

We were having this conversation the other day and we talked about the word resilience.

You know we as black folks, we are resilient and, but that bounce back is not normal.

And you are resilient, but what is that toll that it takes on you?

And so beginning to better understand how you can still be resilient, but how do you really take the time to take care of yourself?

And so quite often, as we mentioned earlier we're learning how to do that.

- Tony don't you ever do you ever just be like I'm so tired of being resilient.

Can't I just get back into bed?

- Yeah, but I don't have time for that because there's work to be done.

But I think it's how do you create a sense of balance.

How do you have, how does Tony have his talking doctor and how does Tony make sure that he gets up and exercise and so, and eating healthy.

And so those are the kinds of things that in the last past year or so, that I had to keep intact.

We were at the event last night and one woman walked up to me.

She says, "You don't have any COVID weighed out."

She said, Corona.

She said, "You don't have the Corona pounds."

I said, "Well, I kinda got up and did a little walking, a little exercise."

And I always had a few pounds but I think it's really knowing that now more than ever that you have to take care of yourself.

When we think about COVID-19 and those who had underlying conditions, so many African-Americans do.

And so it was a reminder to me and my friends and my network and the artists that we work with.

It is important that you take care of yourself.

And that will be some of the issues that we'll be talking about in our social justice series coming up.

So, we're gonna continue to produce in the virtual space.

Our social justice series will be virtually as some working in person but we will be addressing issues of policing, health disparities, in African-American community, whether it's issues around lead poisoning, healthy eating, active living.

So we need to continue these conversations.

That's a new kinda programming that we've had.

We've always dealt with social justice, Karamu was foundation, was founded on social justice and in service of individuals but we're gonna heighten that in the community so that we can continue the conversations and help guide people.

- Is this new work that you're talking about?

New theatrical work?

- New theatrical work, creating the new content creation.

So after we did Freedom on Juneteenth, last year we did an episode called Freedom After Juneteenth.

The first one was on "Policing and Trauma in the Black Community."

The last two were on voting.

One was called "Voting Your Right, Your Power."

The second was "I too am America."

And what we found is that we've been able to reach people for people.

One of my team members to say, I am over 40 years old I've never voted, and for that person to then say, this being presented has made me register to vote and vote.

- Was this in the last, in the general election in 2020?

- Yes.

- Yeah.

- So that's the kinda impact we're talking about.

And so quite often.

- Do you, the voter turnout in Cleveland was has been cited as some of the lowest in the nation for a municipality, for a city of our size.

Do you, will you continue?

I mean that's, is that work you're gonna continue?

I think suddenly perked up, like I mean I'm like, I love you, Tony, and I love this conversation, but I'm like, oh, democracy voting let's talk.

But, is that work that you're gonna continue?

- We'll continue to do, and it happens in multiple ways.

I mean, we create new content, that's theatrical but it's really about having panel discussions that we hosted last year in terms of something we call "front porch conversations" was not as formal.

It's groups of people coming together to just have conversations and facilitate it so that we can keep the conversation moving forward.

So yes, that is work that we will continue to do.

- Speaking of work you're continuing to do, you said you're gonna continue to work in the virtual streaming space.

Will that continue when you're presenting in person as well?

- Yes.

- [Dan] And how do you, how does that work for the business?

- So when you create your own content you're then working directly with playwrights who give you the rights to then stream the work.

Our main stage season will not be virtual.

So the shows that will be a part of our season.

You'll have to come buy a ticket.

- [Dan] You'll have to come buy a ticket.

- And buy a ticket and be in person.

It would be a mistake to, for Karamu not to continue in the virtual space because our donor base has increased with new donors.

We're seeing, we are able to reach people around the world and so we need to create content that is made available to them.

So we can continue that partnership with the country and the world.

- Your partnership with the world.

(both laugh) Thank you Tony.

So, the different vein of questions here, but what emerging artists and playwrights are you most excited about?

- Emerging artists and playwrights?

- In other words, people are looking for recommendations who should they keep their eye on?

Who are you watching?

- Oh, that's so tricky and I get in trouble when I start listing folks, well.

- You can go with out of town people.

To avoid that problem.

- So this is what I'm going to say.

This artist is not emerging, but this is something that I have been privileged to do.

Celeste Bedford Walker wrote.

- [Dan] Who wrote "Greenwood" - Who wrote "Greenwood" also wrote "Sassy Mamas" and, Lloyd Wilson, no Laurie Wright who directed most of August Wilson's works.

- [Dan] Thank you, okay.

- Understood his work and understood his rhythms and I am understanding Celeste rhythms.

- Well, you mentioned prior to us sitting down here on stage that you and Celeste kind of collaborated to revise the script.

- Yes, yes.

So we did a number of edits for the virtual platform and you don't like virtual.

- It's all right.

I mean, I can't fight it.

People use the word, I just don't happen to like it.

- Streaming, and so, but it's another piece, but I'm saying something a little differently.

I'm saying directing someone's work is understanding and connecting with their true intention.

And to understand that she writes in a way that it's rhythmic and August Wilson's writing is as complex and rhythmic as Shakespeare in its own right.

So in Wilson, he's written these words for a reason and he can be quite verbose at times, but it's there and you try to begin to edit it and you're throwing the rhythm off, it's almost like a score of music.

And so it's been great working with Celeste work to work the work.

So it's awesome.

- That's a really interesting way that you totally avoided the question about new artists and emerging artists by just referencing August Wilson and the artists you're currently working with.

(laughs) So, does Karamu offer ways that people can submit plays that they would like to see produced?

- So, yes.

It's come out of historically we would do submissions and people send in their plays.

It really takes us a team of people a staff person to be completely dedicated to new works.

That's a vision for us a couple of years down the road so we don't have the capacity at this point to just receive new plays and then, and we don't have the system in place yet.

But what we do have is that we're, we send out a call to writers to respond to key issues.

COVID, policing, under a new umbrella of social justice and we ask them to write these five minute plays of monologues.

So we really have a targeted approach right now that the current team can then look at these works see which bucket they fit in.

And then we'll begin to produce this work and align it to the larger social justice series that will be streaming.

- Very interesting.

Okay, so there are opportunities for people.

- There are opportunities.

We're not prepared to receive your 120-page play right now.

It's those short five-minute plays that we want local artist to submit, and it's been incredible.

We got about 52 plays of, 52 submissions most recently.

And I tell you, just speaking of emerging artist, people who I didn't know really wrote, who just, I was like, this this good.

- Well, it's funny because it's such a small town, right?

So the names are probably hitting your inbox and you're like, "Oh, well, hello."

- Yes, yes, yes and.

(Dan chuckles) - Well, that's great.

Tony, can you talk about broader efforts in terms of the revitalization of Fairfax?

How Karamu is, you alluded to this a little bit earlier, but what's the vision for the future of Fairfax and how will Karamu move fit in there?

- Well, I think that the vision of Fairfax really starts with our partners, Fairfax Renaissance Development Corporation, who've been a partner and I alluded to something called the ACE District.

And the development of the ACE District has always been in the master plan of Fairfax Renaissance Development Corporation.

And upon coming to Karamu and hearing about that vision, I know that it is something that we can actualize and we're in the process of actualizing, as we talk about the renovations on our campus.

So you think about Fairfax and you've got an incredible amount of history there.

And again, I hate to start naming things and then forget somebody feels left out.

So charge it to the head and not the heart.

But when you think about coming down 89th Street, you've got one of the oldest black churches in Cleveland, you got Antioch Baptist Church, they're right around right across the street.

You've got Boyd Funeral Home, over a hundred plus years old.

You continue down 89th Street, and you got Karamu House, 106 years old.

Adjacent to that on the next corner is Olivet Institutional Baptist church.

One street over is the home that Langston Hughes grew up in.

And then you've got a plethora of other institutions.

So we have a opportunity to focus in on in that ACE District to just talk about the cultural trail and the history of these incredible institutions that are all in walking distance, right there in Fairfax.

And so when you talk about the development of Fairfax, then you would just take, we could go a little further and talk about opportunity to corridor, and the development that's happening there.

So of course, Fairfax, Karamu and other institutions will have markers to guide that traffic over to Karamu House.

And that's really central to our next phase.

We're going into phase three which we'll have to complete hopefully next summer.

But it's the master planning for our campus is next for us.

So Fairfax is a very promising community.

There are a plethora of concerns that need to continue to be addressed.

But what community doesn't have things?

But we are a culturally rich community that I see a very bright future.

- If you're just joining us, we're talking with Tony Sias, president and CEO of Karamu House, the nation's oldest black theater.

And you can join us with a question too.

If you have one, please text it to 330-541-5794, or tweet it @thecityclub and we'll work it into the program.

Tony, this is a big question, but it's sort of, it's underpinning or kind of underneath a lot of what we've been talking about.

This comes from one of our audience members, but do you see, how do you see the future in terms of society?

Will American society be able to grow beyond the systemic racism that has plagued us for so long?

(Tony chuckles) I know, I know, but an audience member asked it.

So, I mean, if we had an audience here, somebody who have stood up with a microphone in their face, ask that.

- We have an incredible opportunity ahead of us.

And I would hope that we will be able to do that work.

What's the timeline on that?

Who knows?

- I mean, it's the journey, isn't it?

It's not, there's probably not an arrival.

- And so I think as individuals, we have to make the commitment to figure out, are we going to be allies?

Are we going to be anti-racist?

Are we going to own that at a starting point?

You may have to acknowledge that that's where you are based on definition, and be willing to grow from there.

And it ain't personal, it's serious.

You gotta do the work, and it is personal, let me even say that.

So I think it's a huge question but it's a huge question for each individual.

And then from individual to communities, how do you want to be perceived?

Not even just perceive, what are you committed to do in your own personal life?

What are you willing to give up?

And what are you willing to do differently?

To begin to actualize that grand vision of the eradication of systemic racism?

- When we were talking about this earlier in the hour, I was very inelegantly trying to get at this question.

But listening to you, I feel like the moment that we've arrived at is this choice for every individual, to say either you're okay with the status quo or you're not.

And if you're not okay, then there's work to be done.

- [Tony] Yes.

- And it starts with whatever it is that you wanna do.

But doing nothing isn't really, is basically saying I'm okay with the status quo.

- Yeah, and unfortunately, doing nothing is still a choice.

- Yes.

There's legislation across the country including in Ohio that would limit what sort of topics regarding racial history and racism that teachers can teach in schools if it creates quote, guilt or makes people feel quote, uncomfortable.

If passed, can Karamu step into the space to continue important conversations about race and racism?

And what does this legislative efforts say about the difficulty of having these conversations?

- So the leading problem is, and from my perspective, is being concerned about your comfort or discomfort.

- [Dan] You better get ready to be uncomfortable.

- It's uncomfortable.

And we spend too much time making it comfortable.

So we need to confront the discomfort.

We need to sit and waddle in the discomfort to then better understand what that is, to then begin to take actionable steps towards better understanding how can you get to a place and not necessarily of comfort, but change, yeah.

- (sighs) It's probably our last question here, Tony.

Do you have plans, does Karamu have plans to travel at all?

Take its productions into other neighborhoods outside of Fairfax or other communities outside of Cleveland?

Or is the goal really just get to Karamu?

♪ Come on and ease on down ease on down ♪ - Yeah.

(both laugh) Well, I think it's twofold.

I think the brand has to go beyond 89th and Quincy.

- [Dan] Yeah.

- And I think in the virtual streaming space, we've been able to actualize that and we will continue to do that.

And yes, having touring productions would be incredible, and we've done some of that.

We've taken a few things to Columbus.

So I think we look forward to it in the future but really right now, I think it's, let's move back into in-person, let's continue to hone and better understand what our streaming presence will be.

And then down the road, if there's opportunity, we'd be more than happy to do the work.

- But you do have a, I mean, it is a destination, and it should be a destination.

As we, I mean, there's plenty of other, nobody's asking the Indians to play elsewhere, when they're playing at home.

(both laugh) - Right, home is home.

- Home is home.

All right, well, Tony Sias, president and CEO of Karamu House, thank you so much for your time today.

It's really been a pleasure to have you as part of our conversation.

- The pleasure has been mine and thank you.

- Thank you very much.

Our forum today is the Larry and Barbara Robinson Family Foundation Forum.

The Robinsons have served the greater Cleveland cultural arts and business communities for decades.

Larry was an active and civic and community leader who served as our board president in 1972.

And his wife, Barbara, spent her life at the forefront of efforts to promote and support arts and culture in Northeast, Ohio and nationally.

Among her many leadership positions, she led the Ohio Arts Council for 13 years, transforming that organization into one of the nation's most respected state arts councils.

We're very grateful for the support of the Robinson family who make this annual forum possible.

I wanna thank also our members, sponsors, donors, and many others who support the City Club's mission to create conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

We have two such conversations coming up next week on Tuesday.

Dr. Patricia Sullivan will be interviewed by Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, daughter of Ethel and Robert F. Kennedy about Senator Kennedy's role in the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

Senator Kennedy, of course, delivered the Mindless Menace of Violence speech here at the City Club in 1968.

And on Friday, we'll talk with democratic senator from Rhode Island, Sheldon Whitehouse, about dark money and what's referred to as court capture, and the future of American democracy.

You can find out more and see what else is coming up at cityclub.org, and you can check out what you missed there, or on PBS passport, Roku, Amazon Fire Stick, Vimeo, and of course, our YouTube channel as well.

I'm Dan Moulthrop, thanks so much for joining us today.

Our forum is now adjourned.

(bell dings) (bright upbeat music) - [Announcer] For information on upcoming speakers or for podcasts of the City Club, go to cityclub.org.

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