-[Deborah Holt Noel] Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, tech giant Google faces a racial discrimination lawsuit, Republican senators fire questions, attempting to discredit Supreme Court nominee, Ketanji Brown Jackson.

And, why isn't there more noise about a WNBA player detained in Russia?

Stay with us.

[upbeat music] ♪ Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm Deborah Holt Noel.

We have seen some wild performances this week.

If you have been following the Senate confirmation hearings for Ketanji Brown Jackson, and we will definitely have some commentary on that.

But first, a lawsuit recently filed in a Californian court alleges racial bias in hiring and promotion at tech giant Google.

Former employee April Curley and several other black former Google employees complain of discriminatory practices.

The group is being represented by attorney Ben Crump who said in a press statement, "April Curley was an exceptional employee at Google.

She was hired to a position well below her qualifications and was consistently, wrongfully, passed over for promotions."

Interestingly enough, a 2018 article in Fortune Magazine reported, "Just 3% of the U.S. workforce at Facebook Inc was black, and only 2% of Google's workers were black."

That number for Google increased to 4% last year.

Let's welcome today's panel.

Author La'Meshia Whittington of Advance Carolina, Political Analyst, Steve Rao and Greg Hedgepeth, CEO of Substantial Media.

So pleased to have all three of you here with me today.

Just a little over a year ago, Greg, HBCU presidents requested a meeting with the CEO of Google, Sundar Pichai, when this issue first erupted.

Even though the stat is weak, it could be argued that the number has increased, even doubled.

So, do you think that the CEO has been responsive?

- Hey listen, first and foremost, thank you so much for having me, Deborah.

Always a pleasure to be with you all.

I'll just start by saying, let's be honest, right?

A whole 1% tick [laughs] in the largest, if you will, opportunity to bring in additional black talent, right?

During a time where statements upon statements are being issued in the media and in the press and everywhere else as it relates to diversity, equity and inclusion efforts, again, a whole 1% tick.

After you have, if you will, gone on record to meet with historical black college and university presidents to understand the resources and the qualifications, and if you will, just the culture and determination of our black students, again, a whole 1% tick.

And so, I would say that Google has some work to do.

I think the tech industry in general has some work to do but what I will also share is that that number surprises me, it doesn't surprise me rather because so many of us are no longer waiting for a seat at a table, we're creating the tables.

And so you'll look and see how many now new entrepreneurs of color that are in the tech industry.

- That's true, you've got the great resignation and that kind of thing.

And that's another conversation with some different statistics attached to it.

But Steve, you know, the fact, it remains that a lot of people have given lip service, it seems, to DEI and said, you know, we're working on it.

What are your thoughts?

- Well, it's a pleasure to be here.

And, you know, I think it's very timely.

This week, I attended the North Carolina Technology Association Diversity and Tech Summit.

And it was a really amazing experience to see a lot of tech companies come, Fidelity, Oracle, IBM, you know, big, big companies.

And first of all, what I learned from that, to answer your question is that, there's too more slip service.

What I learned is that it's not enough to have a policy for DEI in your manuals but you have to have programs in place to execute that because, you know data, first of all, technology companies are data companies.

Right?

- [Deborah] Right.

- The data shows that there's low numbers of diversity, so you can address that.

I think Mr Pichai got off to a good start but also the studies showed that more diverse teams lead to more innovation.

The data and studies show that.

So, if you have teams that don't look like you, that don't think like you and you put them together and work cross functionally, you'll have really great successes.

So the greatest companies are starting from that, so, that's what we have to do.

- And why isn't that penetrating?

We've been talking about this for a couple of years now, I mean, ever since George Floyd and before, we know that diversity has an impact.

- Yes, well, I think there's a couple of reasons.

One is that, the good news is, we're talking about it, which I think is very important.

We didn't talk about it for many, many years.

I think there's a couple reasons why it's not happening.

First is that, I think, we have to do more mentoring within the organizations.

And Mr. Pichai talks about that in his statement he made to Google, but mentoring with other black leaders or leaders of color.

I'll give you an example, Indian Americans... - I'm gonna interrupt.

I'm gonna interrupt you because I wanna hear your second point.

Mentoring is one, what's the second?

- Mentoring is one and when I said mentoring, Indian American businessmen have been so successful in tech.

So how can we cross pollinate between those communities and black American leaders so they can move up in leadership.

But the second point is developing the pipeline of talent.

So, we have the HBCUs, which are doing such a great job, but still only 5% of black Americans are in the emerging fields of STEM.

So, one thing we could do is look at our own backyard North Carolina, at Wake Tech.

I wanna give Dr. Ralls a shout out.

Wake Tech RTP is now housing an early career STEM high school where kids can get education and internships and learn the skills and jobs of the future of the new economy.

So, getting more black students to go there will build the talent and give them the opportunity to succeed.

- So we've got, and I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

So, we've got mentorship, we've got that pipeline.

LA, I wanna pull you in here, of course.

You know, where do we make this connect?

All of the lip service.

We've known this, even the solutions.

What are your thoughts?

- Really love the point that Steve made, that when we talk about Google, they're tech companies, which they have data, and so when we talk about everything from redistricting to census population to understanding where people live and exist, that boils down to data.

So if your main bread and butter is to look at data algorithms, there's no excuse that you don't know that Historically Black colleges have been around over a hundred years.

Google's been around for 23 years, and out of that 23, only in the last two years did they make the clear declaration and commitment to diversity and equity and inclusion due to the murders of George Floyd and Brianna Taylor.

Well, one, it's a shame that it takes the murder of black Americans to leverage an opportunity for black and brown professionals to be considered for jobs they're already qualified for, right, that's a shame.

Two, the reality is, only four years ago did Google implement a program with 11 Historically Black colleges or universities and Hispanic-serving institutions to create a tech program by which students could go to the global headquarters in California, but to Greg's point, that has only still consisted of 1% higher an increase.

We have to look at what are the hiring managers, what is the diversity of the internal management structure of a company?

We say Google, but we have to break that down to who are the people, what is the tracking and data within their own internal company to make sure that if they are to lip service, saying we're going to increase diversity, well, what does that look like in the data?

And then what does it look like to build equity in the actual ownership?

Because that's the other part.

When we talk about the technology industry, there's a distribution of equity in which employees can earn portions of the company or earn equity so that if the company is bought out or sold or they leave that job, African Americans can have the potential to own their own tech companies.

And the last thing I'll say, the tech industry at large, you already said it, but I always wanna ground, data, for folks who are like, well, how is it unequal?

White workers earn 44% more than their black colleagues in the tech industry, and 33% more than the Hispanic colleagues, and the race wage gap is widening.

It has widened by 6% point rise in 2020, yet that's when they make the commitment to, again, diversity and equity and inclusion.

- So we gotta put some action behind the lip service, and there are people making those decisions, and it's not about just, in my opinion, to make the decision when someone comes to you, it's to be proactive, - Yeah.

- and you go find the diversity and bring it in.

You actually have the power to do that, and I think that too many people aren't actually executing that power.

- All right.

- That's right.

- And if you have been following the Senate confirmation hearings for Supreme Court justice, you've probably screamed or cried at some point.

This week, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson's record was attacked from multiple angles, even though she served very successfully as an attorney and a judge in the Washington DC courts, an appointment she received bipartisan support on.

Interrogation by Senator Josh Hawley attempted to paint her as soft on crime and sympathetic to sex offenders.

- What concerns me, and I've been very candid about this, is that in every case, in each of these seven, Judge Jackson handed down a lenient sentence that was below what the federal guidelines recommended, and below what prosecutors requested.

- [Deborah] Senator Lindsey Graham questioned her faith.

- Do you attend church regularly?

- [Deborah] And challenged her work as a public defender for detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

- It won't bother me one bit if 39 of them die in prison.

That's a better outcome than letting them go.

- [Deborah] Before storming out theatrically.

Senator Ted Cruz tried to corner her on the teaching of critical race theory in schools.

- So let me ask you a different question.

Is critical race theory taught in schools?

Is it taught kindergarten through 12th?

- Senator, I don't know, I don't think so.

I believe it's an academic theory that's at the law school level.

- [Deborah] Then he pointed to titles available at a private school she sits on the board for.

- Because if you look at the Georgetown Day School's curriculum, it is filled and overflowing with critical race theory.

They include a book called "Antiracist Baby" by Ibram Kendi.

- [Deborah] But after 11 hours of grilling, a reprieve from Senator Corey Booker, who sang her praises and brought her to tears with words of confidence.

- When that final vote happens, and you ascend onto the highest court in the land, I'm gonna rejoice, and I'm gonna tell you right now, the greatest country in the world, the United States of America will be better because of you.

- Well, Greg, I felt a range of emotions watching those hearings.

What struck you the most about the line of questioning?

- First and foremost, I have to say, just shout out to Judge Jackson for her poise, grace and calmness.

I say it, and I think I jokingly said to someone, the worst case of reality television right now, because just to listen to that reel and understand just the line of questioning, right?

I was once told, they'll find something, right, and to not look at the fact that Judge Jackson is probably one of the most qualified candidates for Supreme Court judge, this lady has served as an attorney, a notable attorney, she has been on the Sentencing Commission, she has served as a public offender, public defender, excuse me, public defender.

I mean, just the array of questioning just shocked me, and my nine-year-old daughter in watching a clip of something very similar, said, "Daddy, why would they ask her that if she's trying to be a judge?"

- This is a nine-year-old who asked that question.

I certainly saw the theatrics.

Steve, your thoughts on the line of questioning, and certainly they have to explore where this potential judge stands on a variety of issues, but do you think that they were doing that, that they were successful at that?

- Well, I mean, first of all, their line of questioning had nothing to do with what we should be focusing on, which is her legal acumen, which has been stellar, her experience as a public defender, which will give her an understanding of the criminal justice system.

She's been a leader in her profession, and the argument at hand should be who is the person that can be selected to serve on the highest court in the land, that can interpret the laws and set the policies of our nation, and what these senators have done, and it's been an embarrassment.

Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed.

I'm embarrassed as an American citizen to have United States Senators trying to paint her for something that she's not.

She never advocated for critical race theory.

She never advocated for many, many of these issues.

She's not been soft on crime.

In fact, in her opening statement, she said it was a great nation.

She comes from a family of law enforcement officers.

She's never said she wants to defund the police.

So it's a classic example of Republicans trying to paint people to be far to the left for political reasons.

What they need to be doing is focusing on her experience.

And at the end of the day, just like Justice Kennedy, who became a leader on civil LGBTQ rights, or Justice Warren, who became the leader on civil rights, these judges long term can shape the balance.

And in my opinion, she is gonna be an asset, like Senator Booker, said to our country and our court because she's gonna bring her experience as a Black woman, her experience as a great lawyer and a great scholar and some Black girl watching on television when she is sworn in will say, I can become a Supreme Court Justice.

America would be better for her and they owe her an apology and I'm embarrassed that they're United States Senators.

- Wow, they should be focusing on what she can bring to this court, but we know that, at least what I saw, is not where their focus was.

LA?

- That's right, that's right.

And I call to question the very Senators that are asking the flagrant questions.

When I look at Josh Hawley, there's a notorious photo of Senator Hawley with a power fist last year, chanting and urging on the domestic terrorists that almost overthrew our government last year.

And so when you have Senators that participated or supported a coup of the government last year that is now questioning the judgment of a potential Supreme Court Justice, Judge Jackson, that seems fraudulent to me.

And so when I hear that, to Steve's point, to Greg's point, the questions had nothing to do with the legal qualification of the roles and the responsibilities of a Supreme Court Justice.

It was really a race bating.

It was for the audience and the supporters and the base of these Republican Senators, who are trying to, guess what, rev up for their Presidential election.

And so there was even footage that was captured of Ted Cruz Googling himself or searching for himself on Twitter.

And so the reality is when we look at critical race theory, that has nothing to do with the role of a Supreme Court Justice.

And so when we talk about the qualification, Judge Jackson has more trial experience than any sitting Supreme Court Justice, she'll be the only second sitting Justice to have served in all three levels of the federal judiciary, and she'll be the first former federal public defender and first Black woman on the court in over 230-something years.

And out of the 115 people confirmed to the Supreme Court, let's break it down, 40 of them were never a judge before being put on SCOTUS, 18 of them never completed law school, 47 of them never even attended law school, So Judge Jackson went to Harvard Law School, was the editor of Harvard Law, and served as a judge for nine years, was a criminal defense attorney, and sat on three federal clerkships, including clerking on the SCOTUS.. Can we just... That's my opinion.

- Listen, we always have to work twice as hard.

- And really this hearing, I almost feel like the Senators, the conservative Senators, went into this understanding, look, we can't touch her record, but what we can do is put out our talking points.

And for 11 hours, that's exactly what they did.

Steve?

- Yeah, and that's exactly what they did.

And my comment for those listening, isn't saying I believe we have a political system where we need to respect each other's political beliefs and have a healthy debate, but at the end of the day, their job should be what's in the best interest of the nation, Republicans and Democrats coming together and deciding who should be on the court that has the best experience.

So these lines of questioning had nothing to do with everything that we've talked about, her legal experience, what she would do on the court.

It was everything about what she wasn't, what she wasn't, hoping that they could sway moderates to do that.

This kind of politics has to stop and hopefully the Democrats and Republicans will do the right thing and get her in the court.

But it was hard to watch.

- It was really hard to watch, gutwrenching.

It was hard to watch.

And and when Cory Booker came in toward the end, my thought was, are you gonna ask a question?

But I began to understand that I was like, I don't think he intends to use his time to ask questions.

I think that he intends to use his time to build her up after that beating.

- And the other thing we didn't mention, she's been confirmed three times to the Sentencing Commission, to the District Court of DC, and the Circuit Court.

So they've already confirmed her three times.

- That's right.

Yeah, so Greg, I'm gonna give you 30 seconds for a response.

- And listen, again, I think it's been said eloquently already and to those that have been watching, you've witnessed it.

I said it.

They have to find something and in this case, I think La'Meishia's absolutely right that as they gear up for whatever elections, primaries, you name it, they're campaigning right now.

They are playing to their base and they are laying politics over things that politics shouldn't be laid over.

And, Steve, I agree completely that we as folks, we should be looking at her qualifications, her track record, and her character, her ability to get the job done, which I believe is what she will absolutely do and inspire the nation.

- And her impact on the decisions coming out of that entire court.

LA, one of the things that I've heard is, well, she's just replacing another liberal judge, so she's really not gonna have much impact at all.

What are your thoughts about that?

- I think it's preposterous, again, to degrade and and devalue Judge Jackson's experience as a public defender.

She is actually of the people.

And first of all, she's a product of two public educators and she went to public school and I think that's one of the rare, again, credits to her name and her experience, as opposed to the other folks who sit on the bench.

But beyond what was she, that point, as a public defender, former public defender, you have a purview on the impacts on communities facing poverty.

You have a purview on why the criminal justice system holds such an impact on communities who are struggling every day to put food on the table and clothing on the backs of their children.

And when she has deliberated those cases, it gives a level of empathy and an actual depiction of the nation.

When we talk about food insecurity, she's actually ruled on cases of environmental justice.

She has insurmountable support from not only public educators, national and state level environmental justice organizations, she has the disability rights of the nation has actually supported her because of her rulings has been fair, impartial, and just and based on even her statement.

During the hearing Judge Jackson is saying, I do everything to the fullest extent by which it is given to me in my authority, by the Supreme Court.

And so when you see that efficacy and her ability to wield and navigate creatively to support different marginalized populations, that's the level of experience that someone, whether it's liberal, progressive, or conservative, that's what we need on that bench.

- Yeah.

- And she can certainly be a light in the room influencing all.

- Absolutely.

- Seven time WNBA all star and two time WNBA defensive player of the year Brittney Griner is still in Russia after she was detained in February at an airport in Russia.

Russian federal customs officials claim that they found vape cartridges containing the marijuana concentrate hashish oil in her luggage.

And latest reports say she'll be detained through May 19th.

So far, no US consul has visited the US citizen and US Congresswoman Cori Bush said in a tweet on March 16th, "We cannot ignore the fact that if Brittney Griner wasn't a black woman, it would be plastered across the news that she is being held as a political prisoner in Russia."

Steve, I wanna open with you.

What do you think about that statement by Corey Bush?

- Yeah, I mean, well, I think that is interesting, right?

I mean, I do think that the race does come into play here.

And I think that I would tend to agree with them.

My only take on it though, is that she was there with an illegal substance in another country.

Also, she didn't heed the warning of our President who I think in February said if you're an American and you're in Russia, you should get out.

And third, the country is being led by a maniacal dictator, the likes of Stalin and Hitler, who is murdering his political opponents, his people who protest, journalists, and is killing hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and bombing civilian cities.

So I would say if you're an American, Brittney Griner should have just gotten out, but perhaps the race factor did come into play in terms of it not being reported or that she's not considered a political prisoner.

- I certainly don't know what her position was and how her decision making went forth.

But in some ways I think that taking a look at what her choices were is a factor of how the story has been portrayed and also how the story hasn't been continued.

LA, what are your thoughts about how this has been presented in mainstream media and why perhaps there hasn't been more pressure to try to bring her back.

This is an American citizen and we don't know if those drugs were actually there, or planted, or what's going on.

It's a really difficult situation.

- Right, so there are a few considerations as to the lack of media elevation.

It became really national knowledge, close to a month after Brittney Griner's detainment.

And so some of the feedback we've heard nationally is the lack of pay that the WNBA distributes to their players, barely $200,000 a year for the amazing Olympic athletes has unfortunately pushed these athletes to have to seek contracts during the off season in countries such as Russia.

And so that elevation and concern with racial and gender and a sexual orientation equity, guess what?

That is what is promoting players to have to put themselves in precarious, dangerous situations, just to be able to play a sport that they love and be compensated fairly.

The other element to that as well is Russia has a history of sometimes planting evidence.

And so that is a high probability.

US citizens Paul Whelan and Trevor Reed, their stories are also being elevated because what has been done to Brittney Griner, which is good, but the reality is there have been statements that say Russia security services have arrested US citizens numerous times on spurious charges, denied them fair treatment, and transparent treatment, and have even convicted them in secret trials and/or without presenting credible evidence.

We saw that to a US Marine who was sentenced in 2019 in Russia for endangering the life and health of Russian police after a night of fun and drinking, there was no details.

It was very skewed but his sentencing is now multiple years, but there was no clear definitive information as to was it real, was it not?

What did the information and the evidence look like?

And so those impacts on Brittney Griner's case as a black woman, as a woman who was a part of the LGBTQ plus community, all these intersecting identities and a lack transparency of even the conditions.

I believe yesterday or the day before, a representative from the US Embassy was actually able to lay eyes on Brittney Griner and said that she was in good condition, but other detainees and folks who have been freed from Russia prison says, well there's a likelihood that she's been in solitary confinement.

There may be labor camps that, once you become sentenced and there's no trial date currently, that there's certain labor camps.

And so we have to be really clear about the conditions that need to be elevated.

- Absolutely.

- The media maltreatment, and the bearing.

- Yes and we all hope that Brittney Griner comes back home very soon.

La'Meshia Wittington, Greg Hedgepath, Steve Rao.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and your comments and participation today.

- Thank you everyone, happy Spring.

- I wanna thank today's guests for joining us and we invite you to engage with us on Twitter or Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum, or listen at any time on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or Google Podcast.

For Black Issues Forum, I'm Deborah Holt Noel.

Thanks for watching.

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