>> OUR 46th PRESIDENT WHILE HISTORY HAS IT'S EYES ON 45.

AND WHY DOES THE SUPREME COURT CARE ABOUT A HIGH SCHOOL CHEERLEADER WHO GOT KICKED OFF HER TEAM?

STAY TUNED.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

I'M JOINED ON THE PANEL TONIGHT BY BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

THE BIDEN ERA HAS BEGUN, OUR 46th PRESIDENT GOT RIGHT TO WORK AFTER TAKING THE OATH OF OFFICE ON WEDNESDAY.

BUT HE HAS A LONG TO DO LIST ON THE RESOLUTE DESK.

IT WOULD BE A TALL ORDER FOR EVEN OUR GREATEST PRESIDENTS.

IT DOES APPEAR BIDEN MAY BE GOING BIG STARTING WITH HIS $1.9 TRILLION COVID RELIEF PLAN.

WHAT ARE THE IMPRESSIONS OF OUR PANEL?

RICK, LET'S START WITH YOU.

WHAT ARE YOUR IMPRESSIONS OF THE BIDEN INAUGURATION AND ESPECIALLY HIS AGENDA?

>> THANKS, DAVE.

THE SIZE AND SCOPE OF THE $ 1.9 TRILLION VIRUS RELIEF PLAN, I THINK SHOWS THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ISN'T GOING TO REPEAT THE MISTAKE OF UNDERESTIMATING THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL HELP THAT WE MADE DURING THE GREAT RECESSION.

THE COUNTRY UNNECESSARILY SUFFERED HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT AND SLUGGIN' GROWTH FOR MANY YEARS AFTER THE RECESSION ENDED.

AND SO WHILE NATIONAL DEBT CURRENTLY IS HIGH, THERE IS A MUCH GREATER RISK OF OUR ECONOMY FALTERING, POTENTIALLY PUSHING TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS OVER THE BRINK JUST AS WE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE SOME HOPE WITH RESPECT TO VACCINATING THE POPULATION.

SO INTEREST RATES ARE LOW, THE NEED IS HIGH.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO WORRY ABOUT BUDGET DEFICIT.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, BUDGETING HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS TO COMBAT THE VIRUS AND ITS IMPACT DIRECTLY AND DISTRIBUTING THE VACCINE, I THINK, IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE PACKAGE.

BUT SUPPLEMENTING UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS AND AIDING SCHOOLS AND BUSINESSES, I THINK, IS GOING TO ALLOW US TO TREAD WATER FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER UNTIL ENOUGH PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN VACCINATED AND THE ECONOMY CAN RETURN TO SOME LEVEL OF NORMALCY.

>> THE OTHER THING THAT I SEE HAPPENING WITH THE INAUGURAL IS IN A VERY REAL SENSE, THIS WAS BIDEN'S FIRST FIRE SIDE CHAT.

THE SPEECH HE GAVE DURING THE INAUGURATION WAS A BALANCED COMBINATION OF OF SAYING WHAT THE ISSUES ARE THE COUNTRY FACES AND REMINDING THE COUNTRY THAT WE HAVE FACED CRISES BEFORE AND COME THROUGH THEM AND EMPHASIZING THE REASONS THAT UNITY IS WHAT ALLOWED US TO GET THROUGH THOSE CRISES.

SO IT REALLY WAS A VERY NICE BALANCE AND IT DID A VERY GOOD THING IN THE SENSE THAT IT CONNECTED THE PAST WITH THE FUTURE.

THE REFERENCES TO THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS, REFERRING TO THEM AS PATRIOTS AND ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT AS RICK HAS BASICALLY STATED, WE HAVE A BIG JOB TO DO AND NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO QUIBBLE OVER WHETHER OR NOT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PLAY A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE IN TERMS OF FINANCING THIS RECOVERY.

BIDEN BASICALLY LOOKED AT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND SAID NO, THE GOVERNMENT, THIS IS NOT A QUESTION OF WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE.

THE QUESTION IS HOW BIG OF A ROLE CAN THE GOVERNMENT PLAY IN ADDRESSING THIS CRISIS AND HE DID LAY THAT OUT WELL.

>> I THINK BIDEN STRUK THE RIGHT TONE IN HIS SPEECH ON WEDNESDAY ON UNITY AND ON THE KEY ISSUES.

HE TALKED ESSENTIALLY ABOUT THE FOUR CRISES THAT FACE AMERICA RIGHT NOW, AS HE FRAMED THEM: THE PANDEMIC, ECONOMIC RELIEF, CLIMATE CHANGE AND RACIAL EQUALITY.

AND THAT'S A PRETTY BIG BASKET OF STUFF FOR THE COUNTRY TO DEAL WITH AND I ABSOLUTELY, YOU KNOW, THINK THOSE ARE THE CRITICAL PRIORITIES.

AND HE IS LEADING WITH THE PANDEMIC, AS RICK DESCRIBED.

AND IN ADDITION, HE HAS ALREADY DONE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT I THINK NEEDED DOING.

WHAT, FOR EXAMPLE, HE INVOKED THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT TO ACCELERATE THE PROCESS OF GETTING VACCINES OUT, MOBILIZING GOVERNMENTS.

THE BIDEN PEOPLE GOT TO THE LIGHTHOUSE AND DISCOVERED LO AND BEHOLD THE TRUMP PEOPLE HAD NO PLAN, HAD NO STRUCTURE FOR FACILITATING THE DISTRIBUTION OF VACCINES AND OTHER PPE AND OTHER SORTS OF THINGS BECAUSE, INDEED, THE TRUMP SAID, WE ARE JUST GOING TO LEAVE IT TO THE STATES.

WE ARE GOING TO KEEP OUR HANDS OFF.

THAT'S WHAT THEY DID AND CHAOS HAS ENSUED.

IN ADDITION, I GUESS I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT BIDE BIDEN'S JUMPING IN WITH A FLURRY OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS TO REPEAL NUMEROUS EXECUTIVE ORDERS OF TRUMP AND HE ACTED VERY RAPIDLY TO DO THAT.

IT UNDERSCORES THE UTILITY OF HAVING A BUNCH OF REALLY EXPERIENCED PEOPLE IN KEY GOVERNMENT POSITIONS RIGHT AT THE START OF BIDEN'S NEW ADMINISTRATION.

>> I'M SORRY, WAS SOMEONE ELSE GOING TO JUMP IN?

>> GO AHEAD.

>> SO I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, IN ADDITION TO ALL ELSE THAT HAS BEEN SAID, IS THAT WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT A MAN WHO IS RIGHT FOR THE PROBLEMS THAT WE ARE ENCOUNTERING.

BUT ALSO FOR HIS POLITICAL MOMENT.

AND WITHOUT SOUNDING LIKE A COMMERCIAL, FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN, WE CAN SAY NOW, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT REPUBLICANS BASHED AS HIS WEAK POINT, REALLY IS HIS STRENGTH, THE FACT THAT HE HAS SPENT SEVERAL DECADES IN WASHINGTON, SPECIFICALLY IN CONGRESS, REALLY POSITIONS HIM TO NAVIGATE WHAT IS, ESSENTIALLY, THE MAZE OF THE CONGRESSIONAL LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO PASS THE BILLS THAN TO DEFEAT A BILL UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO BUILD A CONSENSUS.

THE OTHER STRENGTH THAT HE BRINGS TO THIS NEW JOB AND THE CHALLENGES THAT HE FACES, IS HIS UNIQUE EXPERIENCE AS HAVING SERVED FAIRLY RECENTLY IN BOTH THE CONGRESS, AS WELL AS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

AND SO I THINK THAT POSITIONS HIM TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE POLITICS INSIDE THE BELT WAY.

AND FINALLY, I'LL SAY ALSO THAT HIS OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND, YOU KNOW, FORTUNATELY OR UNFORTUNATELY, HIS PERSONAL TRAGEDIES, I THINK, HAVE POSITIONED HIM TO BE ABLE TO SYMPATHIZE WITH ORDINARY PEOPLE, TO COME CLOSER TO BEING A PRESIDENT, A MAN OF THE PEOPLE, THAN ANY OTHERS; THAT LOSS OF HIS FIRST WIFE AND DAUGHTER, THE LOSS OF HIS SON AND THE FACT THAT THIS MAN UNDERWENT LIFE THREATENING BRAIN SURGERY AND CAME OUT ON TOP OF THAT.

AND EVEN FACED FINANCIAL RUIN.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT HE IS FROM SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA.

SO HE HAS LOST PREVIOUS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, I THINK PERHAPS BECAUSE THIS WAS THE ONE HE WAS BEST SUITED TO WIN AND TO DO SOMETHING EFFECTIVE WITH.

>> NOW TARA, YOU MENTIONED F.D.R., AND I'M WONDERING, IN YOUR VIEW, IS BIDEN, DOES HE HAVE IT IN HIM TO BE TRANSFORMATIVE?

>> I THINK HE DOES IN THIS MOMENT.

A LOT HAS BEEN MADE ABOUT THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE CRISES WE FACE RIGHT NOW AND THE CRISES ROOSEVELT FACED WHEN HE CAME INTO OFFICE IN 1933.

BUT REALLY TO ME THIS TIME PERIOD IS MORE SIMILAR TO REALLY WHAT ROOSEVELT WAS FACING AS HE WENT INTO HIS SECOND TERM BECAUSE, IN ESSENCE, YOU DO HAVE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY WHO HAVE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, BENEFITED FINANCIALLY, AT LEAST, FROM THE VIRUS, FROM THE ECONOMIC ISSUES THAT WE ARE FACING.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING VERY WELL FINANCIALLY.

AND A BIG PART OF WHAT ROOSEVELT DOES AS HE MOVES INTO HIS SECOND TERM IS TO RESPOND TO THE CRITIQUES OF PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T BENEFITING.

SO IN MANY WAYS, WHAT BIDEN IS FACING IS THAT TYPE OF TRANSFORMATION; PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VERY MUCH HARMED BY BOTH THE VIRUS, BY THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN AND WHO ARE SEEING PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN HARMED BY THAT OR WHO HAVE MADE A PROFIT DURING THIS TIME PERIOD AND ARE SAYING NOT ENOUGH HAS BEEN DONE TO HELP US.

I THINK HE CAN BE TRANSFORMATIVE.

I THINK HE WILL RECEIVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF HONEYMOON PERIOD, NOT A LOT.

NOT AS MUCH AS MANY OTHER PRESIDENTS HAVE.

BUT HE WILL HAVE A CERTAIN HONEYMOON PERIOD.

AND I DO THINK HE DOES HAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF REPUBLICANS, WHOSE CONSTITUENTS HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT?

YOU NEED TO GET ON BOARD WITH THE DEMOCRATS.

YOU ALL NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO RELIEVE THE SUFFERING THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING.

>> TARA MAKES A GOOD POINT.

>> RICK, GO AHEAD.

>> TARA MAKES A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE PANDEMIC, THE BURDEN OF IT HAS NOT BEEN FELT EVENLY ACROSS THE POPULATION.

THAT LEADS TO ONE PART OF THE RELIEF PLAN THAT I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF AND THAT IS THE $1400 CHECK THAT IS GOING TO GO OUT TO MOST AMERICANS.

AGAIN, I THINK IT'S A POLITICAL PRICE WE HAVE TO PAY TO GET THIS PACKAGE THROUGH, BUT I WOULD RATHER SEE MORE OF THE PACKAGE GO TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HARMED MORE.

AS TARA SAID, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE FINANCIALLY COME OUT OF THIS VERY, VERY WELL.

OTHERS HAVEN'T BEEN TOUCHED NEARLY AS MUCH, WHILE OTHERS HAVE BEEN DECIMATED.

AND SO I THINK THE $1400 ACROSS THE BOARD CHECK COULD HAVE BEEN TARGETED BETTER.

>> NOW, FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS, OUR PANELISTS ON "IVORY TOWER" HAVE HAD A LOT TO SAY ABOUT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

NOW THAT HE HAS LEFT THE WHITE HOUSE, HOW WILL HISTORY REMEMBER HIM?

HIS BASE CALLS HIM THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER.

MANY SCHOLARS OF THE PRESIDENCY TAKE A DIFFERENT VIEW.

AND WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE WAY WE PERCEIVE OUR LEADERS CHANGES OVER TIME, AND NINA, WHERE DOES FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP FALL ON OUR LIST?

>> YOU KNOW, WELL, I THINK HE IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST PRESIDENT WHO EARNESTLY TESTED THE STRENGTH OF THE PRINCIPLES UPON WHICH AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS SOUND FOUNDED AND I MEAN THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES.

ONE AUTHOR DESCRIBED IT AS FIRST PRINCIPLES AND PERHAPS THE MOST IMPORTANT OF THOSE IS THE IDEA THAT AS JAMES MADISON POINTED OUT IN THE FEDERALIST PAPERS, THE PEOPLE ARE THE ULTIMATE FOUNTAIN OF POWER AND PRESIDENT TRUMP ATTEMPTS TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION BY BOTH PRESSURING STATE OFFICIALS AND ALSO BY VICE PRESIDENT PENCE.

THOSE FAILED.

I THINK THE DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE, ESPECIALLY THE NOTION OF THE DEMOTE SURVIVED.

AND HE TESTED THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY.

AGAIN, ALEXANDER HAMILTON FEDERALIST NUMBER 78 MADE MUCH ADO ABOUT THAT AND I THINK WE SAW, THANKFULLY, I THINK TO THE JUDICIARY FIRST AND FOREMOST, THE COUNTRY SURVIVED TRUMP'S ASSAULT ON THE ELECTORAL PROCESS AND NOT JUST THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY, CERTAINLY THE SUPREME COURT REBUFFED HIS EFFORTS.

BUT YOU HAD MORE THAN 50 LOWER COURTS AS WELL.

AND THEN FINALLY I WOULD SAY THAT HE HELPED TO SHINE A LIGHT ON THE CONTEMPORARY VALUE OF FEDERALISM.

SO IN A NUMBER OF INSTANCES WHERE TRUMP TOOK STEPS THAT REALLY RAN AGAINST THE GRAIN OF PUBLIC OPINION AND, I WOULD SAY, ALSO MORALITY AND ETHICS, WE SAW STATES STEP UP TO THE PLATE; FOR EXAMPLE, HIS OVERTURNING OF DACA AND ALSO DAPA.

WE SAW SANCTUARY STATES AND CITIES EMERGE TO PRESERVE THOSE INTERESTS AND ALSO IN REGARD TO THE HEALTHCARE AND THE REPEAL OF THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE.

THERE, TOO, WE SAW STATES PUT IN PLACE HEALTHCARE EXCHANGES.

AND FINALLY, I'LL MENTION, EVEN IN REGARD TO COVID WHERE TRUMP DROPPED THE BALL, LOOK AT WHAT WE SAW BOTH GOVERNOR CUOMO AND ALSO ONONDAGA COUNTY EXECUTIVE RYAN McMAHON DO.

SO, IN SUM AND SUBSTANCE, YEAH, WE CAME TO THE BRINK.

HE TESTED US, THE COUNTRY, BUT THE COUNTRY SURVIVED.

>> BOB.

>> WELL, I TELL MY STUDENTS WHEN I'M GIVING THEM AN EXAM THAT TAKING AN EXAM IS A LOT LIKE HITTING YOURSELF ON THE HEAD WITH A HAMMER BECAUSE IT FEELS REALLY GOOD WHEN YOU STOP DOING IT.

FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS, DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN HOLDING THE HAMMER.

AND ON WEDNESDAY, HE LAID THE HAMMER DOWN.

AND I BELIEVE THERE WAS A COLLECTIVE SIGH OF RELIEF ACROSS THE COUNTRY, EVEN AMONG MANY TRUMP SUPPORTERS, SOME OF WHOM I'VE SPOKEN TO OVER THE YEARS, WHO WILL OFTEN SAY AND MANY OF YOU HAVE HEARD THIS AS WELL.

I LIKE CERTAIN THINGS THAT TRUMP HAS DONE, BUT HE IS A DIFFICULT GUY.

I DON'T LIKE HIS TWEETS, ET CETERA, ETC.

WELL, THAT IS A BIG PORTION OF WHO DONALD TRUMP WAS.

AND THE THING IS, IF YOU LOOK BACK AT TRUMP'S FOUR YEARS, TO BE A LITTLE MORE POLITICAL SCIENCEY ABOUT IT, TO ME THERE IS A THREE-FOLD TEST FOR ANY PRESIDENT; WHICH IS POLITICS, POLICY AND GOVERNANCE.

RIGHT?

SO IF I WERE TO TAKE A SINGLE EXAMPLE, TRUMP'S WALL, THE WALL BETWEEN MEXICO AND THE U.S., WHICH GOT VIRTUALLY NOWHERE.

THERE WERE ABOUT 400 MILES WORTH OF WALL BETWEEN MEXICO AND THE U.S.

BUT MOST OF IT WAS ALREADY THERE.

MOST OF IT WAS REPAIR WORK.

TRUMP HAD THREE OPPORTUNITIES TO GET $25 BILLION TO ADVANCE CONSTRUCTION ON THE WALL.

THAT WAS OFFERED BY CHUCK SCHUMER, AND HE REJECTED THAT PROPOSAL THREE TIMES.

INSTEAD, HE WOUND UP WITH A MEASLY $5 BILLION, WHICH OF WHICH I THINK HAS NOT EVEN BEEN SPENT AND IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF LOW HANGING FRUIT THAT HE COULDN'T BRING HOME.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT HIS FOUR YEARS, EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE ALL OF HIS POLICY GOALS WERE, YOU KNOW, GOALS THAT YOU WERE TO AGREE WITH, HE COULDN'T GET THEM DONE.

HE WAS THE ESSENCE OF THE ANTI-LEADER AND FRANKLY HIS TIME AS PRESIDENT WAS VERY MUCH LIKE HIS TIME AS THE BUSINESS LEADER.

WHILE HE TRIED TO CULTIVATE A CERTAIN POSITIVE REPUTATION, THE FACTS OF TRUMP'S BEHAVIOR AS A BUSINESSMAN WERE THE SAME AS THOSE AS PRESIDENT AND I THINK THAT TELLS YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HIS FOUR YEARS.

>> OKAY.

AND TARA, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU ON THIS TOPIC.

>> I'M GOING TO DISAGREE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

CERTAINLY, IT DEPENDS ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

IF YOU TAKE THE PERSPECTIVE OF TRUMP'S LEADERSHIP OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IF YOU TAKE THE PERSPECTIVE OF TRUMP'S LEADERSHIP OF SORT OF QUOTE UNQUOTE CONSERVATISM AND I'M USING THAT VERY CAREFULLY HERE, BECAUSE MANY WOULD ARGUE HIS BRAND OF CONSERVATISM IS NOT TRADITIONAL CONSERVATISM.

YOU THEN HAVE TO SAY TRUMP HAD A CERTAIN LEVEL OF SUCCESS.

FIRST AND FOREMOST THE FACT THAT REALLY UNTIL BOTH THE PANDEMIC AND HIS FAILURES WITH THE PANDEMIC AND UNTIL CERTAINLY THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL, TRUMP SUPPORT AMONG REPUBLICANS REMAINED VERY, VERY STRONG.

AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT HIM IN THAT SENSE, HE WAS SUCCESSFUL FOR THE MOST PART.

HE COMPLETELY HAS RESHAPED THE JUDICIARY IN TERMS OF BOTH THE SUPREME COURT AND 25% OF ALL U.S.

CIRCUIT COURT JUDGES RIGHT NOW ARE TRUMP APPOINTEES.

AND THEY ARE CONSERVATIVE LEANING JUDGES.

IF YOU LOOK AT HIS TAX REFORM, NOW WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH HIS TAX REFORM AND WHO BENEFITED, BUT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO REFORM THE TAX SYSTEM AND HE DID.

AND HE DID CUT TAXES ON THE WEALTHIEST AND CORPORATIONS.

THOSE WERE THINGS HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THE FIRST STEP ACT IN TERMS OF BIPARTISAN PRISON REFORM.

AND I COULD GO ON BUT I WON'T.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE THINGS, HE HAD A CERTAIN LEVEL OF SUCCESS.

AND I THINK HISTORY IS GOING TO RECOGNIZE THIS ONCE WE ARE OUT OF THIS MOMENT.

>> OKAY.

AND RICK, VERY QUICKLY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GET TO OUR LAST TOPIC.

>> I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT HISTORIANS THINK OF DONALD TRUMP 20 YEARS FROM NOW IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

BUT I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH WHAT AMERICANS ARE GOING TO THINK OF DONALD TRUMP TWO YEARS FROM NOW.

THERE IS A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT WHAT KIND OF A ROLE HE WILL HAVE IN THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

I THINK HE IS STARTING TO LOSE, AND I THOUGH THIS WAS DISCUSSED ON LAST WE CAN'S PROGRAM, HE IS STARTING TO LOSE OF THE SUPPORT FROM BOTH SIDES OF HIS BASE PEOPLE LIKE MITCH McCOMARE TIRED OF HIM AND RECENTLY THOSE ON THE RIGHT, SUCH AS THE PROUD BOYS CALLING HIM WEAK AND DISLOYAL AND TREATING TRUMP MUCH LIKE TRUMP TREATED BARR AND PENCE.

I THINK THAT GOING FORWARD, WE MAY SEE THE LEGACY OF DONALD TRUMP BECOME MUCH WEAKER MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN WE THOUGHT.

>> THE LIMITS ON SPEECH HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF ATTENTION RECENTLY, OFTEN IN TERMS OF PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS.

BUT A DIFFERENT ISSUE OF SPEECH IS GOING TO BE HEARD BY THE SUPREME COURT THIS TERM.

A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL IN PENNSYLVANIA SUSPENDED A STUDENT AFTER SHE PROFANELY COMPLAINED ON SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT NOT MAKING THE CHEERLEADING TEAM.

SHE POSTED ON THE SNAPCHAT APP WHEN SHE WAS OUT OF SCHOOL AND OFF CAMPUS AND NEVER MENTIONED THE SCHOOL BY NAME.

SO TARA SHOULD A SCHOOL BE ABLE TO REGULATE OFF CAMPUS SPEECH LIKE THAT BY ITS STUDENTS?

>> INITIALLY MY THOUGHT WAS THAT NO, IT SHOULD NOT FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT YOU STATED.

YOU KNOW, YOU CERTAINLY DON'T WANT SCHOOLS TO BE ABLE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, SORT OF RANDOM LOOK AT WHAT IS OUT THERE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND DECIDE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING TO PUNISH THIS STUDENT, NOT GOING TO PUNISH THAT STUDENT.

BUT PART OF THE REASON THAT THE SCHOOL DID THIS WAS BECAUSE THEY FELT THAT THE COMMENTS MADE WERE BOTH DAMAGING TO ONE OF THE COACHES WHO REPORTED THIS.

THIS WAS NOT JUST DISSEMINATED AMONG HER FRIENDS.

THEY SAID ABOUT 250 PEOPLE EVENTUALLY SAW THIS SORT OF RESISTANT THAT THIS STUDENT WENT ON.

AND ALSO THIS IS A REFLECTION OF THE FACT THAT SCHOOLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY AS MORE AND MORE TEACHING IS NOW VIRTUAL, ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR IN TERMS OF WHAT STUDENTS SAY AND DO ONLINE.

AND THE IMPACT OF THAT OVERALL ON THE SCHOOLS.

SO IF YOU JUST TAKE THE TINKER CASE, THIS SHOULD BE AN EASY DECISION.

NO, THE SCHOOL CANNOT REGULATE HER SPEECH BUT THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES HERE.

>> NINA.

>> YEAH, WELL, I'M PRETTY TORN HERE ON THIS ISSUE BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND I RECOGNIZE THE INTEREST ON THE PART OF SCHOOL ELECTED OFFICIALS AND SORT OF PRESERVING CAMPUS CLIMATE, SCHOOL CLIMATE AND ALSO THE CLASSROOM IN WHICH YOU WANT TO FOSTER A ROBUST EXCHANGE OF IDEAS.

BUT THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, WHERE DOES THE POWER OF SCHOOL OFFICIALS END AND THEN THE ROLE OF PARENTS AND COMMUNITIES BEGIN?

BECAUSE OF REMOTE LEARNING, YOU COULD ESSENTIALLY SEE SCHOOL OFFICIALS GORCHING THE SPEECH GOVERNING THE SPEECH OF STUDENTS WHO ARE ABROAD AND IN STUDY GROUPS.

AND MY REAL CONCERN, AND THIS IS WHERE I THOUGHT, JUST, I'LL JUST SAY THIS IS WHAT SCARED THE HELL OUT OF ME.

WHO ARE THE SPEECH POLICE?

WHO ARE THEY?

WHO APPOINTED THEM?

WHAT ARE THEIR MOTIVATIONS?

WHAT INTERESTS ARE THEY SEEKING TO SERVE.

AND I THINK THAT PART OF YOUR OPENING QUESTION, DAVE, I WILL SAY THAT I'M HAPPY THAT THE SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO STEP IN HERE BECAUSE WHAT IT WILL DO IS IT WILL BALANCE ON THE ONE HAND THE COMPELLING INTEREST AND FREE SPEECH AND THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, THE RIGHTS OF THE STATES.

AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE SOME CLARITY AS TO WHERE THE LINE IS DRAWN BETWEEN THOSE TWO COMPETING AND FUNDAMENTAL INTERESTS.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU.

AND I'M SORRY TO SAY THIS IS ONE OF THOSE TIMES WE NEED AN HOUR FOR THE PROGRAM BECAUSE WE ARE KNOT GOING TO GET TO RICK AND BOB ON THAT ONE.

WE NEED TO GO TO OUR As AND Fs.

BOB, YOUR F, PLEASE.

>> AT A HISTORIC MOMENT LIKE THIS, THE BEST THING I CAN DO IS QUOTE THE IMMORTALS, AS GROUCHO MARKS SAID, HE MAY LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT AND TALK LIKE AN IDIOT, BUT DON'T LET THAT FOOL YOU.

HE REALLY IS AN IDIOT.

>> NINA, YOUR F, PLEASE.

>> ACCORDING TO WASHINGTON POST INVESTIGATION, THE U.S. IS EXECUTING MORE PEOPLE THAN EVER WHILE THE REST OF THE WORLD IS EXECUTING FEWER PRISONERS.

IT'S TIME WE TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK, NOT AT EXECUTION, BUT OUR THIRST FOR BLOOD.

>> TARA YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO PROTESTORS IN PORTLAND, OREGON, WHO CHOSE TO VANDALIZE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HEADQUARTERS WHILE THE INAUGURATION WAS GOING ON.

THE SLOGANS AND SIGNS THAT THEY PUT UP INDICATE THAT THEY WILL PROBABLY WERE ANTIPOLICE AND ANTI-ICE PROTESTORS BUT THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR ACTIONS ARE JUST AS DAMAGING TO PEACEFUL PROTEST AND DEMOCRACY AS THE MOB THAT INVADED THE CAPITOL.

>> OKAY.

AND RICK, YOUR F, PLEASE.

>> F TO MARJORY TAYLOR GREEN CONGRESSWOMAN FROM GEORGIA.

SHE WAS STILL TWEETING THIS WEEK, SPREADING CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT THE GEORGIA ELECTIONS AND THEN IN JUST THE PAST FEW DAYS, OLD FACEBOOK MESSAGES SHOWED THAT SHE WAS SPREADING LIES EARLIER, SUGGESTING THAT THE ATTACK IN PARKLAND FLORIDA IN WHICH 17 STUDENTS AND TEACHERS WERE DEAD WAS ALL STAGED.

>> OKAY.

LET'S GO TO THE As.

BOB.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO REPUBLICAN SENATOR JIM LANKFORD FROM OKLAHOMA FOR SENDING A LETTER OF APOLOGY TO BLACK RESIDENTS OF TULSA, THE SITE OF A RACIAL MASSACRE A CENTURY AGO FOR THE VOTE TO OVERTURN THE ELECTORAL VOTES FROM SEVERAL STATES AS THE EFFORT WAS VIEWED AS A WAY OF UPENDING BLACK VOTES IN KEY URBAN AREAS IN THOSE STATES.

AND ALSO AN A TO LADY GAGA'S THRILLING RENDITION OF STAR SPANGLED BANNER ON WEDNESDAY WHEN SHE TURNED TOWARD THE CAPITOL AND SANG THE LYRICS, OUR FLAG WAS STILL THERE.

IT WAS A BEAUTIFUL, FANTASTIC MOMENT.

SHE REALLY WAS FANTASTIC.

>> LADY GAGA GETS AN A.

>> AND YOUR A, PLEASE.

>> STANFORD UNIVERSITY STUDY HAS LED TO WHAT IS CALLED A MACHINE LEARNING SYSTEM THAT CAN DETERMINE A PERSON'S POLITICAL PARTY WITH REASONABLE ACCURACY BASED ONLY ON THEIR FACIAL FEATURES AND CHARACTERISTICS.

I SAY THIS IS AT LEAST A GOOD STARTING POINT TO UNDERSTAND WHERE TODAY'S TRIBALISM COMES FROM.

>> THAT CAN BE AN A OR AN F IN ONE WAY.

RICK, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO AMANDA GORMAN, THE 23-YEAR-OLD INAUGURAL POET JUST ABOUT STOLE THE SHOW WITH A RIVETTING READING OF HER POEM.

>> AND TARA YOUR A, PLEASE.

>> TO STACY ABRAMS CREDITED WITH-- ABRAMS SHOULD BE CREDITED WITH INCREASING VOTER PARTICIPATION AMONG ASIAN AND PACIFIC ISLANDERS IN GEORGIA AS WELL.

AS MINORITY LEADER, SHE REGULARLY SPOKE ON RADIO CAREER.

SHE HAS MENTORED NUMEROUS ASIAN AMERICANS TO SUCCESSFUL POLITICAL POSITIONS AND SHE WAS THE FIRST GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE TO HAVE AN ASIAN-AMERICAN LEADING HER MULTILINGUAL OUTREACH EFFORTS.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS, YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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