>> PRESIDENT ON THE PICKET LINE.

THE FIRST MONDAY IN OCTOBER AND WHAT'S CAUSING THE SHORTAGE OF POLICE?

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED BY TONIGHT'S PANEL, SARA PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, MICHAEL TILLOTSON FROM SUNY CORTLAND, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYE COLLEGE AND BEN BAUGHMAN FROM GANNON UNIVERSITY.

THIS WEEK BROUGHT SOMETHING WE HADN'T SEEN BEFORE-- A SITTING U.S. PRESIDENT JOINING A PICKET LINE.

JOE BIDEN JOINED STRIKERS FROM THE UNITED AUTO WORKERS, THROWING HIS SUPPORT BEHIND THE UNION.

HE SAID WORKERS SHOULD GET BIG RAISES TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT THEY GAVE UP 15 YEARS AGO DURING THE GREAT RECESSION.

THIS, DESPITE THE FACT A LONG STRIKE CAN DAMAGE THE ECONOMY, AN AREA OF PERCEIVED WEAKNESS FOR THE PRESIDENT.

MICHAEL, SHOULD A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BE JOINING A PICKET LINE?

>> I THINK SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO REMIND OYERS OF THE ROLE, MISSION AND FUDGES OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY BECAUSE THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY, IN ADDITION TO FORMULATING AN AGENDA FOR FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC POLICY, ONE OF THE ROLES OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT IS TO SET THE TONE AND TENOR OF THE NATION.

HE IS SUPPOSED TO SET THE TONE AND TENOR OF A NATION.

SO THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT IS SUPPOSED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THINGS THAT INCLUDE JOBS AND WAGES.

SO HIS VISIT TO DETROIT WAS IN LINE WITH THAT RESPONSIBILITY FROM MY VIEW.

HOWEVER, IN A BALKANIZED TRIBALLIZED POLARIZED ENVIRONMENT WITH AN AGGRESSIVE RABBIT FROTHING AT THE MOUTH SOCIAL MEDIA THAT CARES MORE ABOUT ALGORITHMS AND CLICKS THAN THE HEALTH OF THE NATION, IT IS HARD NOT TO SEE THIS MOVE AS PARTISAN BUT THAT'S WHERE AMERICA IS RIGHT NOW.

THE AMERICAN SPIRIT IS VERY DARK.

HARD TO TRUST THE MOTIVATIONS OF ANYONE, PARTICULARLY AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT.

>> THE PRESIDENT WENT THERE, THE WORKERS ARE DEMANDING MORE.

HE SAYS THEY SHOULD GET MORE.

DOES THIS SET UP A CONFLICT WITH THE PRESIDENT'S OWN ENVIRONMENTAL EV ENVIRONMENTAL GOALS?

>> THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

>> WHAT IS THE LONG ANSWER?

>> THE LONGER ANSWER IS THAT THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT MANUFACTURING EV CARS TAKE FEWER WORKERS IN SOME SECTORS, RIGHT, BUT OVERALL, THEY ACTUALLY WOULD LEAD TO JUST AS MANY IF NOT MORE JOBS.

WHEN YOU ADD IN BATTERY PRODUCTION.

SO SOME JOBS WILL BE SHIFTING AROUND.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THAT.

IT'S WHETHER THOSE JOBS ARE GOING TO BE UNIONIZED OR NOT.

SO WHAT IS HAPPENING IS A LOT OF THESE EV MANUFACTURERS AND THE BATTERY MANUFACTURERS ARE MOVING TO THE SOUTH WHICH IS HISTORICALLY HOSTILE TO UNIONS WHERE THE STATE LEGISLATURES PASS LAWS THAT MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO UNIONIZE.

AND SO THE SOLUTION IS TO TRY TO UNIONIZE THOSE FACTORIES.

AND THEY'RE, IN FACT, IN NEGOTIATIONS RIGHT NOW, PART OF THEIR NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE UAW AND BIG THREE AUTOMAKERS IS TO TRY TO MAKE STEPS TOWARD UNIONIZING THE SOUTH.

AND THIS IS AN OLD NARRATIVE THAT WE CAN'T HAVE BOTH A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT AND ROBUST ECONOMY AND GOOD JOBS AND IT RESONATES WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES AND IT ALLOWS PEOPLE LIKE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND REPUBLICANS TO LOOK LIKE THEY'RE ON THE SIDE OF WORKERS EVEN THOUGH THEIR POLICIES DON'T ACTUALLY SUPPORT THEM, WHILE ALSO PLEASING THEIR DONORS WHO ARE FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES AND THE KOCH BROTHERS WHO ARE AFRAID OF THE GREEN REVOLUTION AND CLEAN ENERGY ECONOMY.

>> SO THE MONEY THAT'S GOING TO DEVELOP A LOT OF THESE BATTERY PLANTS IS COMING FROM OR SOME OF IT IS COMING FROM INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, WHICH IS REALLY A CLIMATE CHANGE ACT.

SO SHOULD THOSE COMPANIES THAT ARE BUILDING IN THE SOUTH THEN GET FEDERAL MONEY, ANIRBAN?

>> YOU KNOW THIS IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT HAS A LOT OF TAX BREAKS FOR THESE COMPANIES AND BATTERY PRODUCTION.

I WAS LOOKING AT DATA OF $300 BILLION TAX CREDITS FOR THE ENERGY ENERGY JOINT VENTURE WITH GUIDED PATHWAYS.

ALL THE WORKERS ARE SAYING IF YOU ARE GETTING ALL THIS LARGESS, WHICH IS OUT OF PUBLIC MONEY, THEN THERE IS REASONABLE FOR TO US KIND OF BE DEFINED IN THE MATTER AND NOT DEFERENCE, THAT WE SHOULD GET A PART OF THAT RAISE FROM $16 WHICH IS NOW THE PREVAILING WAGE IN SOME BATTERY FACTORIES TO A LITTLE BIT ABOVE.

REGARDING THE PRESIDENT, I WOULD SAY THAT LOOK, THE PRESIDENT SHOULD PUT HIS BOOT WHERE HIS MOUTH IS.

HIS MOUTH ONCE SAID MOST PROLABOR PRESIDENT IN HISTORY.

>> HE SAYS THAT FREQUENTLY.

>> IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN JOIN THE PICKET LINES, STAND WITH THE WORKERS OF THE UNITED STATES WHO HAVE BUILT THIS COUNTRY AND BUILT CARS FOR US, RIGHT?

SO, YOU KNOW, NO WHEELS, NO DEALS, YOU KNOW.

THAT KIND OF STUFF.

WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I'M VERY HAPPY THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS GONE AND STOOD WITH THE WORKERS.

I THINK DEMOCRATIC PARTY WOULD BENEFIT SURELY BY PROLABOR POLICIES AND WE SAW A GLIMPSE OF THAT DURING THE MID TERMS.

SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD POLITICAL STRATEGY FOR BIDEN BUT ALSO PUSH THESE COMPANIES THAT YOU HAVE BEEN FLOATED BY THIS PUBLIC LARGESS AND YOU NEED TO SHARE THIS IN THESE, SHARE THESE LARGESSES WITH THE WORKERS GIVING THEM SECURE JOBS, HIGH PAID JOBS AND SO.

>> ON THE MOST, BY FAR MOST EVs SOLD ARE SOLD BY TESLA WHICH ALSO BENEFITED FROM PUBLIC MONEY 15 YEARS AGO.

>> THAT IS TRUE.

>> UNIONIZE TESLA WOULD BE THE NEXT MOVE.

>> TESLA IS A NON-UNION COMPANY.

>> WHICH AREN'T PRODUCED HERE, RIGHT?

SO THAT LEADS-- ALL THIS SOUNDS GREAT FROM THE IVORY TOWER.

THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.

IT SOUNDS GOOD BUT REALISTICALLY IT COSTS MORE TO MAKE MORE THINGS IN THE UNITED STATES AND THEN IF YOU GO AND INCREASE SALARIES 40%, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DIP IN THE $29 MILLION A YEAR C.E.O.

SALARY THAT THEY'RE MAKING SIGNIFICANTLY TO MAKE THAT UP.

AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT.

SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE ARE ALREADY SEEING THE SHIFT TO THE SOUTH BECAUSE OF UNIONS.

WE ARE GOING TO SEE-- AND NOT JUST SOUTH OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT SOUTH OF AMERICA IN ADDITION TO THAT.

AND FROM CHINA, IN PARTICULAR, THAT'S WHERE WE ARE GOING TO SEE GETTING OUR BATTERIES FROM.

SO THAT'S GOING TO NOT ONLY IMPACT THE JOBS THAT WE HAVE HERE.

IT'S ESTIMATED BY OF COURSE FORD COMPANY TO BE $400,000 JOBS THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE LOSING WHEN WE SHIFT OVER TO JUST, YOU KNOW, EV CARS.

BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE ALL REAL ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR.

>> AND I WANT TO PUT ON RECORD THOUGH THAT ARGUMENT IS MOSTLY MADE BY PEOPLE IN THE IVORY TOWER, NOT BY THE WORKERS ON THE PICKET LINES, RIGHT?

SO THE MAIN IDEA IS THAT WHO CONTROLS PRODUCTION, RIGHT?

YES, PRIVATE COMPANIES, BUT THEY ALSO, AT THE SAME TIME, SHOULD BE UNDER CERTAIN REGULATIONS THAT PROVIDE AMERICAN LABOR WITH DECENT JOBS AND MONEY AND THERE CAN BE LAWS THAT CAN BE SAID YOU CANNOT SHIFT THESE JOBS TO MEXICO AND OTHER PLACE 3-Z PLACES.

THEY'RE PRODUCING BATTERIES HERE AND THEY'RE PAYING LOW WAGES HERE AND THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

>> WE DO HAVE NAFTA.

THEY'RE A PRIVATE COMPANY, THEY CAN BUILD IT WHERE THEY WANT TO BUILD IT.

ARE YOU SUGGESTING THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD TELL THEM WHERE TO BUILD?

>> THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES INCENTIVES TO SAY WHERE THEY CAN OR CANNOT BUILD AND GOVERNMENT HAS HISTORICALLY DONE THAT FOR CENTURIES ON END.

ALL THE BIG STATES LIKE BRITAIN, UNITS, HAVE BEEN BUILT ON POLICIES ABOUT GOVERNMENT REGULATING BUSINESS IN ITS OWN IMAGE AND I DON'T SEE IT'S NECESSARILY BAD.

I DO SEE RAMPANT CAPITALISM IS TERRIBLE FOR THE UNITED STATES.

>> IT'S NOT JUST REGULATION.

IT'S HUGE INVESTMENTS AS YOU WERE NOTING BIDEN HAS SIGNED LEGISLATION TO PUT HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY INTO THE EV TRANSITION AND IT'S PAYING OFF.

ONE LAST FUN FABLGHTD IS THAT-- FACT THAT THE UAW ACTUALLY HELPED TO ORGANIZE AND FUND THE INITIAL EARTH DAY 1970 SO THERE IS NOT NECESSARILY A CONFLICT BETWEEN WHAT THE LABOR WANTS AND WHAT ENVIRONMENTALIST WANTS.

IN FACT, SHAWN FAIN HAS SAID THAT THEY ARE NOT AGAINST THE EV REVOLUTION.

THEY JUST WANT TO JOIN IT.

>> OKAY.

NOW, THIS COMING MONDAY IS THE FIRST MONDAY IN OCTOBER AND THAT MEANS THE SUPREME COURT IS BACK IN SESSION.

THE DOCKET THIS YEAR WILL BE BUSY AS USUAL, WITH A NUMBER OF FAR-REACHING CASES TO BE DECIDED.

THERE WILL BE CASES CONCERNING LIMITS TO SOCIAL MEDIA EXPRESSION, MANDATORY MINIMUMS, AND CIVIL RIGHTS LAW.

AND MANY MORE.

OF COURSE, THERE'S ALSO THE POSSIBILITY FOR A HUGE DECISION IN A 14TH AMENDMENT CASE CONCERNING PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ELIGIBILITY TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

AN BARCH, WHAT CASE ARE YOU-- ANIRBAN, WHAT CASE ARE YOU PAYING PARTICULARLY ATTENTION TO.

>> THE WHETHER THE CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION BUREAU FORMED DURING THE DARK FRANK LEGISLATION WHETHER THAT WOULD BE GUTTED OR NOT.

AND THIS MAINLY IS COMING FROM A GROUP THAT IS SUPPORTED BY PAYDAY LENDERS AND THIS DARTIER TO SITS-- CARTIER TO SITS ON THE BOARD.

THE PAYDAY LENDERS HAVE BEEN HIT BY MASSIVE FINES AND THIS IS THEIR EFFORT TO GUT IT AND HAVE FAVORABLE LEGISLATION FOR THEMSELVES.

>> TO SAY IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE... >> BECAUSE APPARENTLY THERE IS-- THEY CANNOT BE PAID BY MONEY APPROPRIATED-- WITHOUT MONEY APPROPRIATED FROM CONGRESS, BUT THEN OTHER SCHOLARS LIKE AZIZ HAWK HAVE POINTED OUT FROM CHICAGO LAW PROFESSOR FEDERAL DEPOSIT CORPORATION, THE FEDERAL EVERYBODY, THEY'RE NOT BEHOLDEN TO CONGRESS APPROPRIATION SO THIS WILL BE A VERY INTERESTING CASE TO LOOK AT.

>> THAT'S A CASE WITH FAR REACHING IMPLICATIONS NOT JUST FOR THE CONSUMER FINANCE PROTECTION BOARD.

>> MICHAEL, WHAT CASE ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT?

>> ACTUALLY THE CASES I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ON THE DOCKET ARE NOT UP FOR REVIEW, RIGHT?

THE CASE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ARE CASES AGAINST JUSTICE ALITO AND JUSTICE THOMAS FOR THEIR ENDURING IMPROPRIETY WITH WEALTHY INTERESTS.

THE CASE I'M MOST INTERESTED IN WHICH IS ON THE DOCKET ALEXANDER VS. SOUTH CAROLINA CONFERENCE OF THE NAACP ON OCTOBER 11.

THIS CASE LOOKS AT WHETHER SOUTH CAROLINA'S CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING MAP CONSTITUTED ILLEGAL GERRYMANDERING AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF THE JUDGE'S RULING ON THE ALABAMA CASE.

THIS WILL HAVE IMPLICATIONS ON THE BALANCE OF POWER IN CONGRESS GOING FORWARD.

FOR ME ONE TO WATCH.

>> AND THERE ARE SIMILAR CASES I THINK LOUISIANA, AND THERE IS ANOTHER-- IT MIGHT BE NORTH CAROLINA, SOMETHING SIMILAR ALL ON THIS GERRYMANDERING THAT COULD CHANGE BECAUSE OF THAT CASE THAT YOU MENTIONED.

>> CHANGE THE BALANCE OF POWER IN CONGRESS.

>> THE WAY I SEE THIS IS WE ALREADY HAVE PRECEDENTS WITH GERRYMANDERING CASE.

I KNOW IT'S MORE CONSTITUTIONAL AT THE HEART OF THIS ONE THAT'S BEING HEARD THIS YEAR VERSUS LAST YEAR AND THAT THEY ALREADY AGREED THAT IT WAS OR NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED.

I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO FIND THE SAME THING BUT I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO WHAT ANIRBAN WAS SAYING WITH THE CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION BUREAU.

I AGREE THAT THAT ONE IS A BIG CASE.

I AM UNCOMFORTABLE WITH HOW MUCH IT'S GETTING DISCOUNTED IN THE MEDIA AND BY SCHOLARS.

LIKE THIS CAN'T HAPPEN.

I REMEMBER THAT BEING SAID ABOUT A PARTICULAR PERSON THAT MADE IT INTO OFFICE THAT PEOPLE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT, MAKING IT BACK INTO OFFICE.

THERE WAS A LOT OF, IT COULDN'T HAPPEN.

THIS IS HUGE TWO-THIRDS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS FUNDED IN A SIMILAR WAY OF THE 2010 COMPONENT THIS BUREAU IS FUNDED.

IT'S A BIG DEAL BECAUSE IT'S THE WAY IT IS FUNDED.

IT CAN TAKE UP TO 12.5% FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVES, THEY HAVE A REVENUE STREAM AND THAT THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT AND THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THAT'S BEING MADE IS THAT THERE IS NOT AN ANNUAL REVIEW AND THAT THERE IS AN APPROPRIATION DONE EVERY YEAR FOR THAT.

THAT'S THE SAME THING FOR SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID.

>> THAT'S ONE WAY TO CUT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

WHAT CASE ARE YOU LOOKING AT?

>> I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES THERE ARE SOME REALLY IMPORTANT CASES THAT ARE REALLY BLOCK BUSTER BUT ARE TECHNICAL AND PEOPLE MAY NOT PAY AS MUCH ATTENTION TO THEM BOUGHT THEY'RE ATTACKS ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE AND WHETHER GOVERNMENT CAN DO ITS JOB.

AND THE OTHER CASE THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS THE RAIMONDO CASE THAT COULD POTENTIALLY OVERTURN THE CHEVRON DOCTRINE AND THAT DOCTRINE BASICALLY SAYS THAT WHEN COURTS-- WHEN AGENCIES HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION, THEY HAVE TO INTERPRET CONGRESSIONAL STATUTES THAT ARE SILENT ON AN ISSUE OR AMBIGUOUS, THE COURTS WILL GENERALLY DEFER TO THE AGENCY'S EXPERTISE AS LONG AS THEIR DECISION IS REASONABLE, RIGHT?

SO IT ALLOWS AGENCIES, ALLOWS AGENCY EXPERTS TO DECIDE THINGS LIKE WHETHER THE ABORTION MEDICATION IS SAFE, WHETHER A CERTAIN POLLUTION LEVEL IS REASONABLE, WHETHER-- ALL KINDS OF DECISIONS THAT AFFECT OUR EVERYDAY LIVES THAT WE RELY ON THESE AGENCIES TO MAKE, BECAUSE CONGRESS CANNOT LEGISLATE THAT AMOUNT OF DETAIL.

SO THE QUESTION-- IT'S NOT THAT THESE AGENCIES NEVER MAKE MISTAKES BUT THE POINT IS DO YOU WANT THESE NINE JUSTICES TO BE MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER YOU HAVE ACCESS TO CERTAIN MEDICATIONS?

I DON'T THINK SO.

AND SO THIS COULD BE A HUGE CHANGE TO THE WAY THAT THE GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY RUNS.

>> AND IF CONGRESS HAS TO MAKE THE DECISION ON EVERY ONE OF THESE THINGS, THE EXPERTISE LEVEL-- THAT WOULD BE PRETTY HARD TO DO, WHETHER A CERTAIN POLLUTANT RISES TO THE LEVEL-- I MEAN... >> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN THEY JUST CANNOT.

GOVERNING HAS GOTTEN VERY COMPLEX.

AND SO THEY OFTEN WRITE VAGUE STATUTES WITH GOALS AND INTENTIONS THAT HAVE TO BE FILLED IN BY THESE EXPERT ACT SIS WHETHER IT'S THE E.P.A.

OR THE FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

>> MICHAEL.

>> I DON'T WANT TO UNDERAPPRECIATE IN ADDITION TO WHAT EVERYONE HAS SAID THE IDEA THAT BLACK AMERICANS IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THIS NATION HAVE BEEN WRITTEN OUT OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS SO WOULD I PUT THAT AS A HIGH MARK FOR THIS COURT AS WELL.

>> OKAY.

NOW THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF CONTROVERSIAL POLICE SHOOTINGS IN RECENT YEARS, SOME OF WHICH WE'VE DISCUSSED ON THIS PROGRAM.

LAST WEEK IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, THERE WAS A CASE WITH AN UNUSUAL AND, AT LEAST INITIALLY, A TROUBLING OUTCOME.

AFTER A LONDON POLICE OFFICER WAS CHARGED WITH MURDER FOR A SHOOTING IN THE COURSE OF HIS DUTIES, SO MANY SCOTLAND YARD OFFICERS TURNED IN THEIR GUN PERMITS THAT THE ARMY WAS PUT ON STANDBY TO HELP WITH POLICING.

THAT TURNED OUT NOT TO BE NECESSARY, BUT WITH MORE OFFICERS BEING CRIMINALLY CHARGED, COULD SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPEN HERE?

WHERE POLICE OFFICERS TURN IN THEIR GUNS OR REFUSE TO SERVE?

>> RIGHT.

AND I THINK IT'S THE LATTER.

I THINK THE CULTURE THERE, THE PROBLEM IS, WHAT THEY'RE HAVING THERE IS 1: THEY ONLY HAVE HAD THANKFULLY ONLY 80 PEOPLE KILLED SINCE 1990 BY THE POLICE AND A FIREARM.

THAT CAN BE CHALKED UP BY A LOT OF FACTORS INCLUDING THAT 7% OF SCOTLAND YARD CARRIES A GUN.

ONLY 7%.

SO OUT OF THAT, OVER ONE IN 10 TURNED IN THEIR LICENSE TO CARRY THE GUN IN PROTEST.

SO YOU HAD 300 OUT OF WHAT WAS IT 2500 THAT ACTUALLY CARRY A GUN.

THAT'S HUGE.

THAT'S A BIG STATEMENT.

THE REVERSE IS GOING TO BE HERE.

IF I THINK THAT I'M GOING TO BE CHARGED WITH ANY MISTAKE THAT I MAKE IN A HIGH FREQUENCY-- HIGH RISK LOW FREQUENCY EVENT WITH NO TIME TO THINK IT THROUGH AND I MAKE A MISTAKE AND I GO TO PRISON AFTER PUTTING PEOPLE IN PRISON FOR THINGS THEY'VE DONE FOR 10 YEARS, THAT'S GOING TO MAKE ME THINK, IS THIS REALLY THE PROFESSION I WANT TO DO WITH NO BACKING?

SO LET ME DO THIS THOUGH.

THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS HAVE I TO TOUCH ON BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE WE DON'T UNPACK IT.

WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT HIGH RISK, LOW FREQUENCY NO TIME TO THINK IT THROUGH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THIS IS.

THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM A LOT OF DECISIONS WE HAVE TO MAKE.

IF YOU ARE LIMITED IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, TRAINING OR KNOWLEDGE, YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A BAD DECISION.

THE OTHER COMPONENT, PHYSIOLOGICAL RESPONSE WHEN YOU ARE UNDER STRESS IN A CRITICAL SITUATION LIKE THIS WHERE THIS GUY NOT ONLY HAD A RECORD OF CARRYING FIREARMS, BUT THE CAR THAT HE WAS IN WAS FLAGGED THE DAY BEFORE FOR HAVING A GUN.

SO YOU HAVE PHYSIOLOGICAL RESPONSES IN YOUR DECISIONS.

>> >> ONLY 7% OF THE OFFICERS THERE CARRY A WEAPON.

I ASSUME IT'S 100% HERE.

>> YES.

>> AND MAYBE THE AUDIENCE DOESN'T KNOW.

>> YOU ARE A FORMER POLICE OFFICER.

IF THERE IS ONE THING YOU WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT BEING A POLICE OFFICER, IS THAT IT?

>> THE ONE THING I NEED PEOPLE TO KNOW AND WHAT OFFICERS NEED PEOPLE TO KNOW IS YOU CAN'T SHOOT THE TIRES OUT.

YOU CAN'T SHOOT THEM IN THE KNEE CAP BECAUSE IT'S PHYSIOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBLE.

YOUR FINE MOTOR SKILLS GO OUT THE WINDOW.

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

THE SWAT TEAMS ALL THEY DO, SNIPERS, IF THEY'RE IN THAT HIGH RISK SITUATION, THEY MISS MOST OF THE TIME.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> THIS IS CLEARLY MAKING A CLAIM THAT WE WOULD BE THE JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER OF PEOPLE AS WE WANTED WHEN WE WANT IT AND WE WOULD CLAIM IT'S HIGH RISK, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THAT PROFESSION, DON'T GO.

THERE ARE MANY OTHER HIGH RISK PROFESSIONS IN THE WORLD, MANY, MANY NOT JUST THE POLICE.

NOW LET ME PUT THIS ON RECORD RIGHT HERE.

THE LONDON POLICE, THERE WAS A MASSIVE 300-PAGE REPORT CAME OUT BY LADY LOUIS CASEY AFTER THE MET POLICE OFFICER WAS CHARGED FOR RAPING AND MURDERING A WOMAN AND THE REPORT CLEARLY STATED THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS AN INSTITUTIONAL CULTURE OF RACISM, MISOGYNY HOMOPHOBIA AND THAT IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THIS IS HAPPENING.

WHAT I WANT TO PUT IN FORWARD IS THAT YES, THE POLICE DO RISKY JOBS.

WE NEED TO SUPPORT THEM.

BUT TO WHAT EXTENT?

AT THE END OF THE DAY, POLICE SERVE US.

WE DO NOT SERVE THE POLICE.

THEY ARE SERVING WITH OUR MONEY SO THERE SHOULD BE STRICT CIVILIAN CONTROL OVER THAT.

CHRIS WAS SHOT.

UNARMED IN, SHOT DIRECTLY INTO THE CAR.

>> ARMED WITH A VEHICLE.

>> HE WAS NOT ARMED.

>> HE WAS IN A CAR THAT WAS CONNECTED TO A SHOOTING THE DAY BEFORE AND HE HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF SHOOTING... >> BUT HE WAS NOT ARMED.

>> HE WAS IN A CAR!

IT'S A WEAPON!

DRIVING TOWARDS A PERSON IS... >> THE INDEPENDENT... >> THIS IS BEGINNING TO SOUND LIKE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY DEBATE.

HOLD ON.

SARAH DESPITE EVERYTHING BEING SAID, WE HAVE A SHORTAGE, A GROWING SHORTAGE OF POLICE OFFICERS IN THE UNITED STATES.

IS THIS PART OF THAT PROBLEM?

HOW DO WE SOLVE THAT PROBLEM BECAUSE THAT IS A PROBLEM IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO SERVE.

>> ABSOLUTELY BUT WOULD I LIKE TO KNOW MORE WHY, RIGHT?

WHY ARE MORE PEOPLE NOT GOING FOO POLICING.

WHY ARE PEOPLE LEAVING.

WE SEE THINGS WITH OTHER PUBLIC SERVANTS, TEEFERS RETIRING EARLY, HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING NEW FOLKS.

FIREFIGHTERS.

I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST-- I THINK TO BLAME THEIR ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISMS AS BEING THE MAIN REASON POLICE ARE LEAVING, IT'S LIKE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE DATA.

WOULD I LIKE TO REALLY SEE SOME EVIDENCE.

AND I GUESS THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY, JUST, YOU KNOW, IN RESPONSE TO YOUR-- >> I HAVE TO STOP YOU BECAUSE I WANT TO QUICKLY GET TO YOU BEFORE WE GET TO As AND FS.

>> ON A REGULAR BASIS LAW ENFORCEMENT IS BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS IN RETURN, SOME OF THEM ARE TURNING IN THEIR BADGES AND WITHHOLDING THEIR SERVICES, RIGHT.

IN REALITY I THINK ABOUT THE AAQIE, AMERICANS FOR THE INVOLVEMENT OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

MORE REASON TO PUSH FOR IT.

ARGUABLY, IF YOU TAKE AWAY QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IN PLACES LIKE MONTANA COLORADO AND MEXICO AND NEVADA HAVE DONE, IT IS PROBABLE THE BAD ACTORS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT MAY CHANGE.

>> WE HAVE TO STOP IT RIGHT HERE AND GO TO As AND Fs.

SARAH YOURS.

>> MY A GOES TO VOTERS IN THE TOWN OF MANLIUS EAST OF SYRACUSE WHO REJECTED A PROPOSAL TO SWITCH FROM AT LARGE ELECTIONS TO THE TOWN BOARD TO AA WARD SYSTEM.

THE IT WAS A RUSSIA TEMPT TO REGAIN CONTROL OF THE TOWN BOARD THEY LOST TO DEMOCRATS IN RECENT ELECTIONS.

IF THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO WIN MORE SEATS, THEY'LL HAVE TO WORK HARDER AND WIN OVER THE VOTERS RATHER THAN RIG THE RULES IN THEIR FAVOR.

>> MICHAEL, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO NEW YORK SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER FOR NOT ASKING BOB MENENDEZ TO RESIGN.

>> ANIRBAN, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS FOR INTRODUCING A UKRAINIAN NAZI AS A HERO AS SEVERAL JEWISH GROUPS NOTED IN OUTRAGE IN 199-- WHO SERVED IN THE NAZI UNIT IN THE WORST DIVISION AND THIS IS ALSO A DISTURBING TREND WHERE UKRAINIAN NAZIS ARE GETTING REHABILITATED IN THE WEST.

>> AND BEN YOUR F. >> MY F IS GOING NOT TO THE LONDON CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM BUT TO OURS.

THE PAROLE SYSTEM LET OUT SOMEBODY WITH SERVING LESS THAN HALF HIS TERM.

HE KILLED TWO PEOPLE IN MARYLAND THIS PAST WEEK.

THAT CANNOT HAPPEN, SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.

HE WAS IN FOR SEX OFFENSE AND IT WAS PREMEDITATED.

>> AND SARAH, WE'LL GO TO YOUR F. >> I'M SORRY.

I SPOKE OUT OF TURN.

SO MY F THIS WEEK GOES TO THE SECOND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY DEBATE ON THURSDAY NIGHT.

MODERATORS ASKED SERIOUS QUESTIONS LIKE GUN VIOLENCE, COST OF HEALTHCARE, LACK OF CHILD CARE OPTIONS BUT THE CANDIDATES TENDED TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT, PROVIDE UNSERIOUS ANSWERS OR TALKED OVER ONE ANOTHER.

NIKKI HALEY DELIVERED THE BEST LINE OF THE NIGHT DIRECTED, SAYING EVERY TIME I HEAR YOU, I FEEL A LITTLE DUMBER.

UNFORTUNATELY HERE DIAGNOSIS COULD APPLY TO ALL OF US WHO ARE WATCHING THAT DEBATE.

>> AND MICHAEL, YOUR A.

>> TO AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETERS WHO SOMETIMES GO UNNOTICED IN AMERICAN LIFE.

>> AND ANIRBAN,.

>> TO THE WRITERS GUILD OF AMERICA WHICH REPRESENTS 11,000 SCREENWRITERS FOR WINNING AGAINST CORPORATE AGGRESSION BY REACHING A TENTATIVE DEAL WHICH INCLUDES COMPENSATION OF STREAMING CONTENT AND CONCESSIONS SO THE MARCH CONTINUES.

>> AND BEN, YOUR A.

>> MY A IS GOING TO HAPPY WHALE.COM.

THEY'RE HELPING NUDGE HUME HUMANS TO INDIVIDUALIZED WHALES DONE THROUGH SIMILAR TECHNIQUES USED BY FACIAL RECOGNITION, GIVES PEOPLE PERSPECTIVES OF THE INDIVIDUAL WHALES, PAST, PRESENT AND ANTICIPATED FUTURE.

>> SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP WHALES, AN INTERESTING STORY THIS WEEK, WHICH WE DIDN'T DISCUSS BUT MAYBE WE'LL GET TO IT IS APPARENTLY A NEW SPECIES OF WHALE HAS BEEN DISCOVERED.

I GUESS IT WAS CONSIDERED TO BE A DIFFERENT SPECIES BUT IT'S AN AMERICAN WHALE.

ONLY IF THE GULF OF MEXICO AND IT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF SHIPPING LANES AND GREAT TERRITORY FOR DRILLING FOR OIL.

SO BIG DECISION HAS TO BE MADE AS TO WHETHER WE SIDE WITH THE WHALES OR WE SIDE WITH OIL.

AND WITH THAT...

THERE WE GO.

WITH THAT I'LL SAY THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY AND FROM ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.