>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE  CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE LOCAL  FACE LEADING PRESIDENT BIDEN'S POLICY PLANS AND COORDINATION  WITH TRIBAL NATIONS.

>> Rivera: WORKING WITH INDIAN  COUNTRY AND GIVING INDIAN COUNTRY A SEAT AT THE TABLE IS  IMPORTANT TO HIM AND HE'S MADE THAT CLEAR TO HIS ENTIRE  CABINET.

>> Gene:   PLUS THE GOVERNOR'S PLANS TO OPEN NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS  WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

THE COVID RESPONSE PLAN HAS BEEN BIG NEWS THIS WEEK.

NOW THAT WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE DAYS TO DIGEST IT, THE LINE  LOOKS AT THE IMPLICATIONS.

OUR OPINION PANEL ALSO LOOKS  AT CENSUS NUMBERS SHOWING NEW MEXICO IS LOSING PARTS OF ITS  POPULATION BASE AND A DISTURBING REPORT FROM  SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO ABOUT A STATE AGENCY THAT IS USING  TECHNOLOGY TO SIDE STEP THE PUBLIC EYE.

IN THE WAKE OF THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL WE HAVE  ASSEMBLED A PANEL OF CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEYS TO TALK ABOUT  ITS IMPACT ON NEW MEXICO AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE NEW  MEXICO CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

WE BEGIN WITH THE LINE.

A  COUPLE WEEKS AGO, I CLOSED OUT THE SHOW TALKING ABOUT A  CONCERNING POPULATION SURVEY BY A MOVING COMPANY.

IT SHOWED NEW MEXICO WAS LOSING ITS YOUNG POPULATION  EVEN AS IT GAINED RESIDENTS OVER 65.

NOW, THIS WEEK'S CENSUS DATA IN A LEGISLATIVE REPORT BORE  OUT THOSE SURVEY FINDINGS.

THEY COME WITH ALL SORTS OF  IMPLICATIONS.

SO, HERE TO HELP US SORT THEM  IS OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

JOINING US THIS WEEK IS LINE  REGULAR AND FORMER STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN, ATTORNEY  AND PUBLIC SAFETY EXPERT ED PEREA RETURNS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, ED.

CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE  ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL DAN BOYD IS BACK FOR ANOTHER ROUND.

THE LEGISLATIVE FINANCE COMMITTEE REPORT SAYS THAT  STATE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE WISE TO RETHINK HOW IT DELIVERIES  SERVICES.

DAN, AND IN PRACTICAL TERMS,  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> Dan: I THINK THAT MEANS  THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME REALLY TOUGH POLITICAL  DECISIONS ON THE HORIZON ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO  THINGS LIKE YOU CONSOLIDATE SCHOOLS, DO YOU ELIMINATE  CERTAIN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

AND OBVIOUSLY FOLKS ARE GOING TO FIGHT FOR THOSE IN THEIR  DISTRICTS.

SO, I THINK THAT IS GOING TO  BE SOME PAINFUL DECISIONS IN THE FUTURE.

OBVIOUSLY WE  DON'T KNOW FOR SURE HOW THE POPULATION WILL EVOLVE BUT AT  LEAST BASED ON THOSE TRENDS YOU REPORT, CURRENTLY WE HAVE  HAD VERY MODEST GROWTH OVER THE LAST DECADE.

IF IT CONTINUES LIKE IT ACTUALLY WILL DECLINE NEW  MEXICO'S POPULATION WHICH IS A DAUNTING PROSPECT GIVEN THE  STATE LOOKS LIKE IT IS GOING TO GET OLDER AND OLDER AND THE  BIRTH RATE IS GOING TO DECLINE.

>> Gene: THOSE THREE OR FOUR THINGS JUST MENTIONED ADD UP  TO A BIG PROBLEM.

WE ARE LOOKING AT A  2.83 PERCENT GROWTH RATE OVER THE PAST DECADE COMPARED TO  THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, OR EVEN THE REST OF THE REGION.

HOW CAN WE DO THIS?

HOW CAN WE PULL THIS OFF WITH  DECLINING BIRTH RATES AND OVER 65 POPULATION BOOMING?

HOW DOES THIS GO FORWARD IN A POOR STATE LIKE NEW MEXICO?

>> Dede: I THINK DAN HAS PINPOINTED WHERE SOME OF THE  POLITICAL DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE.

GIVEN OUR DECLINING ENROLLMENT AND ALSO OUR GROWING SENIOR  POPULATION, WE HAVE TO -- THE SENIOR POPULATION CONSUMES  MORE RESOURCES.

THEY ALSO SPEND MORE MONEY.

SO IN THAT WAY, THERE MAY BE SOME OPPORTUNITIES THERE.

BUT YOU KNOW SOME OF THESE TRENDS WE HAVE KNOWN ABOUT FOR  A LONG TIME.

THERE HAS BEEN DECLINING  ENROLLMENT.

WE KNOW THAT THERE HAS BEEN A  GROWTH IN THE SENIORS.

WHAT THE BIG HIT IS THOSE  PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE BRACKET, THE WORKING AGE PEOPLE, THE  YOUNG FAMILIES.

AS YOU PINPOINTED IN YOUR  COMMENTARY, THEY HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF THE 2008 RECESSION  AND MANY HAVE LEFT THE STATE FOR JOBS AND ALSO THERE IS  CHANGING LIFE STYLES.

I MEAN PEOPLE ARE NOT BUYING  HOMES.

PEOPLE ARE NOT HAVING CHILDREN  WHEN THEY ARE IN THEIR CHILD BEARING YEARS.

SO, THAT ALL BEARS DECISIONS.

BUT I THINK THERE IS ONE THING  WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT.

OKAY, WE HAVE A 2% GROWTH RATE AND THAT IS LIKE CAUSING  EVERYONE TO SOUND THE ALARM.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE USED TO  BE A TIME WHEN PEOPLE QUESTIONED WHETHER CONTINUAL  GROWTH WAS A GOOD THING.

A GOOD THING FOR OUR  ENVIRONMENT, A GOOD THING FOR OUR ECONOMY.

AND ASKED, SHOULDN'T WE FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN COME UP WITH A  STEADY STATE GROWTH, A SUSTAINABLE KIND OF GROWTH  THAT STILL CREATES JOBS BUT DOESN'T DESTROY EVERYTHING IN  ITS PATH.

>> Gene: WAS THERE A NUMBER,  DEDE, ATTACHED TO THAT, IN YOUR TIME IN THE SENATE?

HAD SOMEONE DETERMINED WHAT THAT PROPER PERCENTAGE OF  GROWTH WAS?

>> Dede: NO, THAT IS A  PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL THAT OUR  SOCIETY MUST GROW VERY RAPIDLY IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN OUR  STANDARD OF LIVING.

WE HAVE A VERY HIGH STANDARD  OF LIVING.

WE CONSUME A LOT OF RESOURCES.

SO, YOU KNOW, PART OF THAT IS PROBLEMATIC WHEN IT COMES TO  CLIMATE CHANGE AND CONSUMPTION OF RESOURCES, DECLINE IN  SPECIES SOMETIMES AS A RESULT  OF HUMAN ACTIVITY.

>> Gene: A COUPLE DEGREES AND  NATURE RESPONDS.

THIS IS A HUGE TALK AROUND  SOCIAL MEDIA FOR US ON TWITTER.

LET ME READ YOU A COUPLE OF THINGS.

EVALINA V, JUST FOR HER LAST NAME, SAID EDUCATION IS A BIG  HURDLE.

SHE LISTED A NUMBER OF AREAS  THAT STATE SHOULD INVEST IN, INCLUDING BROAD BAND,  EDUCATION.

ALSO, WAS A BIG ONE FOR BRIAN WADE BOO, WHO  TOLD US IT WASN'T NECESSARILY THE REASON HE MOVED HIS FAMILY  OUT OF THE STATE BUT POOR SCHOOLS ARE KEEPING HIM FROM  COMING BACK TO THE STATE.

ONE LAST ONE, A FELLOW NAME  JERRY EBERHART POINTED OUT EDUCATION IS WELL AND  PARTICULARLY COUPLING IT WOULD BUSINESS IN THE COMMUNITY TO  FORM TRAINING PARTNERSHIPS AND ALSO TARGETING PROGRAMS TO  HIGH NEED JOB AREAS LIKE TEACHERS, OF COURSE.

THERE IS A LOT TO CHEW ON BUT WHAT GRABS YOU AMONG THE  COMMENTS?

SIMILARITIES YOU'RE HEARING?

>> Ed: WHETHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GROWTH OR JUST THE  MAINTAIN THE POPULATION STATUS QUO, EDUCATION IS CRITICALLY  IMPORTANT.

THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

IF WE TALK GROWTH, IT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO BE  ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MOVE INTO OR STATE.

AS A PERSON ON TWITTER MENTIONED, HE MIGHT NOT MOVE  BACK FOR THOSE REASONS.

ON THE OTHER HAND IF YOU'RE  SEEKING SORT OF THAT STEADY STATE POPULATION, YOU WANT AN  EDUCATED WORKFORCE.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE LOOKING AT  SUCH A DECLINE OF POPULATION UNDER THE AGE OF 18, BUT FOR  THOSE WHO REMAIN IN THE STATE, WHO ARE OF SCHOOL AGE, THE  QUALITY OF OUR EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT JUST TO CONTINUE TO  MOVE OUR STATE FORWARD.

YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGICALLY AND  LEADERSHIP WISE.

I THINK EDUCATION IS KEY ALSO  TO QUALITY LEADERSHIP.

SO, EITHER WAY YOU WANT TO  LOOK AT THIS, EDUCATION IS A KEY COMPONENT TO MOVING  FORWARD.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS.

DAN, LET ME ASK ABOUT THIS.

YOU'RE THE DEMOGRAPHIC THE  STATE IS AFTER, IF I COULD BE SO BOLD.

YOU HAVE YOUR LIFE SET UP.

DOES THIS REPORT IN THE CENSUS  DATA RING WITH YOU WITH YOUR CONCERNS AS A HUSBAND AND  FATHER IN THE FEW PURCHASE.

>> Dan: IT DOES.

I HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF FRIENDS MY AGE WHO LEFT NEW MEXICO FOR  JOBS IN COLORADO, OR OTHER STATES.

AND WE HAVE DECIDED TO STAY AND ARE FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE  TO DO SO AND LOVE NEW MEXICO, BUT I THINK WHAT BOTH DEDE AND  ED TALKED ABOUT, IF THERE ARE NOT JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR  YOUNG PROFESSIONALS AND NOT A GOOD EDUCATION SYSTEM, A LOT  OF FAMILIES ARE GOING TO LOOK ELSEWHERE.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS A NEW REVELATION BUT HARD FOR NEW  MEXICO TO FIND THOSE JOB OPPORTUNITIES, EVEN TO KEEP,  YOU KNOW, STUDENTS IN THE STATE AFTER THEY GRADUATE,  EVEN IF THEY DO GET A QUALITY EDUCATION, WHETHER THAT IS  FILM INDUSTRY, NOW WITH THE FLEDGLING INDUSTRIES, MAYBE  THERE IS HOPE ON THE HORIZON BUT NOT HAVING THAT REALLY  STRONG KIND OF PRIVATE SECTOR LIKE DENVER OR AUSTIN OR  PLACES LIKE THAT, IT IS HARD TO COMPETE AND HARD TO KEEP  YOUNG FOLKS HERE.

>> Gene: DEDE QUICK ONE, A  COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT.

ONE THING THAT WAS NOT STATED IN THE LSU REPORT BUT GLARING  IN OBVIOUSNESS IS LOSING FOLKS AT A VERY KEY AGE IN THEIR  LATE 40'S AND EARLY 50'S ARE ALSO LEAVING OUR STATE.

THAT IS A DILEMMA BECAUSE THESE FOLKS ARE AT THE HEIGHT  OF THEIR SKILLS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

AND REPLACING THAT SKILL SET IS ANOTHER CHALLENGE, ISN'T  IT?

>> Dede: DEFINITELY.

I THINK THAT THE TRAINING PROGRAMS AND EDUCATION AS  OTHERS HAVE STATED ARE IMPORTANT, BUT ALSO I THINK  NEW MEXICO NEEDS TO LOOK TO SEE THE NICHES THAT IT CAN  FILL.

YOU KNOW.

AND THE NICHES THAT IT CAN FILL FROM PEOPLE PERHAPS  LEAVING NEW JERSEY, CONNECTICUT, CALIFORNIA,  BECAUSE THE COST OF LIVING IS SO HIGH OR THE URBAN NATURE OF  THOSE STATES PRESENTS A HEALTH HAZARD THAT NOBODY THOUGHT  ABOUT BEFORE.

>> Gene: THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN  2020, DID IT?

A LOT OF FOLKS DIDN'T COME  HERE AT A TIME WHEN THERE WAS A LOT OF SWIRL GOING AROUND IN  THE COUNTRY.

WHY IS THAT?

>> Dede: WE MADE NO EFFORTS TO ATTRACT THEM.

TOURISM IS DOWN BUT NOW THAT PEOPLE CAN WORK REMOTELY IT  SEEMS TO ME THAT IS A MARKETING CAMPAIGN WE HAVE TO  START IN ORDER TO ATTRACT THAT AGE GROUP AND I THINK THAT AGE  GROUP IS VERY ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSCIOUS AND COULD BE  ATTRACTED TO OUR GREAT OUTDOORS AND LANDSCAPES.

>> Gene: WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW.

ABSOLUTELY.

WE ARE TALKING GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY WHEN WE RETURN  AND LATER IN THE SHOW THE COMING CHANGES TO NEW MEXICO'S  PANDEMIC PUBLIC HEALTH PLAN.

>> Carpenter: POLICING IS VERY  MUCH DOABLE CONSTITUTIONALLY.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMMIT  CRIMES AND IT IS NOT -- IT DOESN'T PUT OFFICERS IN DANGER  TO DO IT CONSTITUTIONALLY.

HOPEFULLY THAT IS WHAT THEY DO  GOING FORWARD.

>> Gene: TRIBES HAVE A UNIQUE  RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHICH IS OBLIGATED  TO FULFILL INDIAN TRUST AND TREATY RESPONSIBILITIES.

TO THAT END THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION VOWED TO UPHOLD  TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY AND TO WORK TO IMPROVE GOVERNMENT TO  GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIPS.

NATIVE AMERICANS INCLUDING  SOME WITH TIES TO NEW MEXICO HAVE BEEN NAMED TO KEY  POSITIONS IN THE ADMINISTRATION  TO FURTHER THE TRIBAL AGENDA.

THIS WEEK, NMIF CORRESPONDENT,  ANTONIA GONZALES TALKS WITH PAAWEE RIVERA, PRESIDENT  BIDEN'S WHITE HOUSE ADVISER ON TRIBAL AFFAIRS.

>> Antonia: PAAWEE RIVER, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS.

>> Rivera: THANKS SO MUCH FOR  HAVING ME.

>> Antonia: LET'S START OFF BY  SHARING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOUR ROLE IS.

>> Rivera: THANKS SO MUCH, GREAT TO SPEAK TO SO MANY NEW  MEXICANS TODAY.

I SERVE IN THE WHITE HOUSE  OFFICE OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS AS A SENIOR ADVISER  AND DIRECTOR OF TRIBAL AFFAIRS SO WORKING CLOSELY WITH OUR  TRIBAL GOVERNMENTS IN THE OFFICE OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL  AFFAIRS.

>> Antonia: A LOT OF PEOPLE IN  NEW MEXICO MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH YOUR FATHER WHO SERVED  WITH THE POJOAQUE PUEBLO FOR MANY YEARS, INCLUDING AS  GOVERNOR, AND MANY MAY KNOW HIS ART SCULPTURES AROUND NEW  MEXICO AND EVEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

HOW DID HIS LEADERSHIP ROLE AND WATCHING HIM, HOW DID THAT  IMPACT YOUR CAREER PATH?

>> Rivera: CERTAINLY IT WAS --  HAVING MY DAD WAS A GREAT ROLE MODEL TO HAVE GROWING UP AND  GET THE EXPOSURE TO THE IMPORTANCE OF OUR TRIBAL  GOVERNMENTS IN NEW MEXICO AND WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE  STATE, LOCAL AND FEDERAL PARTNERS ON THE ISSUES THAT  ARE FACING TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

SO, GETTING TO SEE THAT UP  CLOSE AND TO SEE THE STRIDES THAT OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES  HAVE MADE OVER THE YEARS, HAS PLAYED A GREAT IMPACT IN MY  LIFE.

AND THE WORK THAT I AM ABLE TO  DO NOW IS REALLY INFORMED BY MY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES OF  HAVING LIVED IN THE PUEBLO OF POJOAQUE GROWING UP AND LIVING  IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, SO ALWAYS APPRECIATIVE AND  GRATEFUL FOR THAT BACKGROUND.

>> Antonia: AS YOU KNOW, THERE  WAS MUCH CELEBRATION ACROSS INDIAN COUNTRY WHEN DEB  HAALAND, OUR FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN HERE FOR NEW  MEXICO, BECAME SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR.

AND NOW BRIAN NEWLIN ANOTHER NATIVE AMERICAN BEING  NOMINATED FOR ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INDIAN AFFAIRS.

WHY IS REPRESENTATION OF NATIVE AMERICANS IMPORTANT TO  THE ADMINISTRATION?

>> Rivera: I THINK IT IS  INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE POLICY AND HAVING  DECISION MAKERS WHO COME FROM THE LIVED EXPERIENCES AND  THEIR BACKGROUNDS OF COMING FROM THOSE COMMUNITIES AND  ACTUALLY HAVING A ROLE IN THE POLICIES THEY ARE HELPING TO  SHAPE IS INVALUABLE.

THAT IS A LEADERSHIP THAT THE  PRESIDENT VALUES AND THAT IS WHY HE HAS SELECTED SECRETARY  HAALAND TO BE A PART OF HIS CABINET, TO BECOME THE FIRST  NATIVE AMERICAN CABINET MEMBER BECAUSE HE VALUES THE  PERSPECTIVES OF NOT ONLY NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE BUT  ALSO BRINGS IN SOMEONE LIKE SECRETARY HAALAND WHO IS  INCREDIBLY EXPERIENCED AND INCREDIBLY QUALIFIED TO LEAD  THE DEPARTMENT AND HELP TO SHAPE THE ADMINISTRATION'S  GOALS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR.

WE ARE ALL INCREDIBLY PROUD OF SECRETARY HAALAND AND OF  BRIAN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY NEWLIN, WHO WAS NOMINATED, I  BELIEVE, YESTERDAY OFFICIALLY, SO, WE'RE REALLY LOOKING  FORWARD TO THE WAY THAT OUR ADMINISTRATION IS SHAPING UP  AND REALLY PROUD OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH  OVER THE 100 DAYS COMING UP HERE IN A FEW DAYS.

>> Antonia: THERE ARE MANY ISSUES IMPORTANT TO TRIBES  ACROSS THE UNITED STATES FROM ALASKA ALL THE WAY ACROSS HERE  AND INCLUDING NEW MEXICO BUT COVID-19 CONTINUES AND STILL  IS A PRIORITY FOR TRIBES.

WHAT IS THE ADMINISTRATION  DOING RIGHT NOW TO ADDRESS RECOVERY, FUNDING, HEALTHCARE,  ANYTHING DEALING WITH EVEN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND  DEALING WITH COVID RECOVERY FOR AMERICAN INDIANS AND  ALASKA NATIVES?

>> Rivera: COVID-19, THE  PANDEMIC, HAS DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED  TRIBAL COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND REALLY WE HAVE  SEEN THE DEVASTATING IMPACT TO NOT ONLY VULNERABLE COMMUNITY  MEMBERS BUT TO MANY ELDERS AND PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO  BEAR OUR CULTURES AND SPEAK OUR LANGUAGES SO GETTING THE  PANDEMIC UNDER CONTROL IN INDIAN COUNTRY IS TOP  PRIORITY, THE TOP PRIORITY OF THE PRESIDENT FROM DAY ONE.

AND, YOU KNOW, FROM DAY ONE THE PRESIDENT ESTABLISHED THE  WHITE HOUSE COVID RESPONSE TEAM WHICH TAKES A WHOLE OF  GOVERNMENT APPROACH TO ADDRESSING THE PANDEMIC AND  ENSURING THAT INDIAN COUNTRY IS A BIG PART OF THAT,  ESPECIALLY IN THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN,  31.2 BILLION-DOLLARS GOING TO INDIAN COUNTRY AND PART OF  THAT ASSISTANCE GOING DIRECTLY TO COVID RESPONSE.

LAST WEEK WE WERE PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE FOUR BILLION DOLLARS  TO FIGHT THE PANDEMIC IN INDIAN COUNTRY INCLUDING  FUNDING TRIBAL HEALTH SYSTEMS, INCREASING VACCINATIONS AND  REALLY MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE PROVIDING THE RELIEF TO OUR  COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN HIT HARD.

>> Antonia: PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS COMMITTED TO RESPECTING  TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY AND BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS WITH  TRIBES.

KEY MEMBERS OF THE  ADMINISTRATION HAVE ALREADY MET WITH NATIVE AMERICANS,  SECRETARY HAALAND TRAVELED TO THE SOUTHWEST, MET WITH PUEBLO  LEADERS HERE IN NEW MEXICO, AND THE FIRST LADY OF THE  UNITED STATES IS CURRENTLY ON THE NAVAJO NATION.

THE SECOND GENTLEMAN HAS MADE VARIOUS MEETINGS INCLUDING  WITH SOME PUEBLO LEADERS HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND OTHER AREAS  OF THE COUNTRY.

TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY  THAT IS HAPPENING.

>> Rivera: I THINK FROM DAY  ONE THE PRESIDENT HAS MADE CLEAR THAT WORKING WITH INDIAN  COUNTRY AND GIVING INDIAN COUNTRY A SEAT AT THE TABLE IS  IMPORTANT TO HIM AND MADE THAT CLEAR TO HIS ENTIRE CABINET  AND HIS ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION.

I FEEL FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE TO  BE A PART OF THAT AND HAVING TRIPS LIKE THE FIRST LADY TO  NAVAJO NATION WHERE SHE IS SPENDING TWO DAYS MEETING WITH  TRIBAL LEADERS, VISITING VACCINATION SITES, TRIBAL  SCHOOLS AND HAVING THE SECOND GENTLEMAN TRIPS TO THE YAKIMA  NATION IN WASHINGTON AND ALSO TO VISIT THE KEWA PUEBLO TO  VISIT THEIR HEALTH CENTER THERE, I THINK REALLY HELPS  INFORM OUR LEADERS, OUR PRINCIPALS ABOUT THE NEEDS OF  INDIAN COUNTRY.

AND THEY ARE CARRYING THE  MESSAGE OF THE ADMINISTRATION TO INDIAN COUNTRY BUT ALSO  SHOWING THE COMMITMENT OF THE ADMINISTRATION TO MEET INDIAN  COUNTRY WHERE THEY ARE AND TO REALLY MAKE SURE THAT TRIBAL  LEADERS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERACT AND ENGAGE WITH  OUR TOP LEADERS AND THE LEADERS IN THE ADMINISTRATION  TO FULFILL THE  NATION-TO-NATION RELATIONSHIP.

>> Antonia: PAAWEE RIVERA,  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE ON NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS.

>> Rivera: THANK YOU FOR  HAVING ME ANTONIA.

>> Gene: THE DEPARTMENT OF  CHILDREN, YOUTH AND FAMILIES HAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT  JOBS IN STATE GOVERNMENT, THAT OF SAFEGUARDING VULNERABLE  CHILDREN AND FAMILIES.

IT COMES WITH INTENSE  SCRUTINY, THE KIND THAT IS OFTEN UNCOMFORTABLE FOR TOP  ADMINISTRATORS.

SO, MORE THAN A FEW EYEBROWS  WERE RAISED THIS WEEK WHEN SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO'S ED  WILLIAMS REPORTED THE AGENCY HAS BEEN USING THE APP SIGNAL  TO ENCRYPT COMMUNICATIONS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THE  AGENCY ALSO ADMITTED TO DELETING COMMUNICATIONS.

NOW REPUBLICANS HAVE SEIZED UPON THIS REPORT AND ATTORNEY  GENERAL HECTOR BALDERAS IS INVESTIGATING.

DEDE, MUCH OF WHAT CYFD IS SHIELDED BY PRIVACY FOR  CLIENTS, WE ALL KNOW THAT, BUT ATTORNEYS, SEARCHLIGHT  CONSULTANTS SAY IT IS A CHILLING PRACTICE.

WHY DOES THE AGENCY NEED TO KEEP THOSE MESSAGES?

>> Dede: I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE AGENCY'S ARGUMENT SO I AM  PROBABLY NOT THE ONE TO ASK ON THAT.

BUT I THINK THAT THEIR ARGUMENT IS THAT THEY ARE  PROTECTING SENSITIVE CASE FILES, INFORMATION ABOUT  CHILDREN THAT SHOULD NOT FALL INTO THE WRONG HANDS.

HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM IS THAT THESE ARE PUBLIC RECORDS.

AND THEY NEED TO, AT MINIMUM, BE PRESERVED.

THEY MIGHT BE ENCRYPTED BUT THERE ARE TWO THINGS HERE,  ENCRYPTION AND DESTRUCTION.

THE DESTRUCTION OF THESE  AUTOMATICALLY AFTER THE COMMUNICATION HAS BEEN MADE IS  VERY PROBLEMATIC.

I MEAN, EVEN JUST IN TERMS OF  KEEPING PUBLIC RECORDS FOR THE ARCHIVE OF HISTORY AND THE  STATE LIBRARY.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE WHEN THEY  ARE DESTROYED AUTOMATICALLY.

SO, THEY INDICATED THIS WAS A  CONVENIENCE TO THEM BECAUSE OF COVID, BUT ALWAYS AS AN OPEN  GOVERNMENT ADVOCATE, WE OUGHT TO ASK WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?

WHAT IS IT THEY ARE HIDING HERE?

SOME OF IT MAY BE SENSITIVE INFORMATION BUT REMEMBER THE  INFORMATION USED BY THE PUBLIC AND REPORTERS THROUGH IPRA  REQUESTS IS USUALLY BASED IN IDENTIFYING SOME ISSUE.

IT IS NOT IN REVEALING A PERSONAL CASE BUT IT IS  IDENTIFYING A PATTERN OF CHILD ABUSE OR FOSTER CARE OR  GRANDPARENTS CUSTODY OF CHILDREN THAT HAVE -- THAT ARE  NO LONGER IN THE CUSTODY OF THEIR PARENTS.

THAT INFORMATION, IF IT IS HIDDEN, REALLY HINDERS  POLICYMAKING.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE,  WOW.

BRIAN BLAYLOCK, CYFD  SECRETARY, SAID IF THEY DIDN'T DELETE MESSAGES AND SHRED  OTHER COMMUNICATIONS, THEY WOULD RUN OUT SPACE.

I DON'T RECALL SEEING THAT PROVISION AS AN EXEMPTION IN  THE STATE PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS THAT THEY RAN OUT OF SPACE SO  IT IS OKAY TO DESTROY THINGS.

>> Boyd: THAT MAY BE AN ISSUE  THAT TECHNOLOGY IS OUTPACING THE OPEN RECORDS LAWS WITH SO  MANY PEOPLE COMMUNICATING VIA TEXT, VIA SIGNAL OR THESE  OTHER KIND OF APPS, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IS A CONCERN,  LIKE DEDE MENTIONED.

AND I THINK THE QUESTION OF  HOW WIDESPREAD THIS IS IN STATE GOVERNMENT IS STILL  UNKNOWN.

I MEAN   CLEARLY CYFD HAS BEEN USING IT, BUT WHETHER OTHER  AGENCIES ARE USING SIMILAR KINDS OF APPS OR TOOLS TO  COMMUNICATE, ON THE ONE HAND I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE ARE  WORKING REMOTELY AND NEED TO BE IN TOUCH WITH EACH OTHER,  BUT, I AGREE IT IS INCREDIBLY TROUBLING TO HAVE THESE  RECORDS AUTOMATICALLY DELETED AND NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THEM  FOR THE PUBLIC AND FOR MEDIA LIKE US TO REVIEW THEM AND TO  LOOK AT THEM AND USE OUR BEST JUDGMENT ON WHAT MIGHT BE  NEWSWORTHY.

>> Gene: SURE.

ED, MAINTAINING RECORDS IS TIME CONSUMING, REQUIRES ITHER  LITERAL OR VIRTUAL SPACE, AS WE KID HERE, BUT DO PEOPLE, DO  COURTS SYMPATHIZE WITH THIS IN YOUR BEST JUDGMENT OR IS THIS  A BAD LOOK?

>> Ed: I THINK IT IS HIGHLY  PROBLEMATIC ON THE FACE OF IT.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL PASS  JUDICIAL MUSTER.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE  GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND ITS  EMPLOYEES ANSWER TO THE TAXPAYERS.

I THINK OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST SEVERAL DECADES,  TRANSPARENCY HAS BEEN ON THE TOP OF THE LIST OF CONCERNS  AND, REALLY, THE EXPECTATION OF THE PUBLIC.

SO, I CAN SEE THIS GOING  BEFORE THE COURT AND THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES INVOLVING  TRANSPARENCY ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MISSION OF  THIS PARTICULAR AGENCY.

CYFD IS SO CRITICALLY  IMPORTANT THAT THERE IS FULL TRANSPARENCY AND THERE HAS TO  BE SOME LEVEL OF OVERSIGHT.

I UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT.

I DON'T BELIEVE AT THIS POINT, BASED UPON WHAT I AM SEEING  AND READING, THAT THESE ARGUMENTS ARE GOING TO HOLD IN  COURT.

I THINK TRANSPARENCY IS ULTIMATELY GOING TO RULE  THE DAY, JUST BECAUSE THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW  WHAT ITS AGENCIES, WHAT ITS GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE DOING.

MORE TO COME BUT I DON'T EXPECT THE COURTS TO UPHOLD  THIS SORT OF COMMUNICATION THAT IS TAKING PLACE AT CYFD.

MORE TO COME.

>> Gene: ED, I HAVE GOT A  QUESTION THERE.

IS THERE A REASONABLE MIDDLE  HERE.

IS THERE A POINT WHERE YOU  DON'T HAVE TO KEEP RECORDS AFTER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF  TIME?

I WONDER IF THERE IS ANOTHER  SITUATION, ANOTHER STATE AGENCY THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO  FOLLOW, SAY LIKE IF THEY ARE THREE YEARS OLD, 10 YEARS OLD,  IS THERE A REASONABLE TIME TO GET RID OF SOME OF THESE  THINGS IF ISSUES OF KEEPING THESE AROUND ARE AN ISSUE.

IS THAT REASONABLE?

>> Ed: THERE IS ALWAYS THE  EXCEPTIONS, RIGHT.

AND IT DEPENDS ON THE ISSUE.

IN COURT CASES, LOOK, THESE COURT CASES CAN GO ON FOR  DECADES ESPECIALLY WHEN IT INVOLVES CHILDREN AND THE  MISSION OF CYFD I WOULD THINK THAT THE COURT WOULD EXPECT  THESE RECORDS TO BE HELD ON TO FOR AN INDEFINITE PERIOD OF  TIME.

IF THAT MEANS 30 OR 40 YEARS,  MAYBE IT DOES, BUT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING SHORT TERM, I  DON'T THINK THAT SERVES THE INTERESTS.

THIS TRANSPARENCY IS ULTIMATELY WHAT WE ARE, THE  TAXPAYERS AND CITIZENS, EXPECTING FROM ITS GOVERNMENT  AGENCIES.

>> Gene: DEDE, ABOUT A MINUTE  HERE, I MENTIONED REPUBLICANS HAVE SEIZED ON THIS.

THEY WERE AWFULLY QUIET HOWEVER WHEN SUSANA MARTINEZ  USED PRIVATE E-MAIL TO CONDUCT PUBLIC BUSINESS.

THIS KIND OF THING DOES HAPPEN BECAUSE NEW MEXICO'S  TRANSPARENCY LAWS ARE TOOTHLESS.

IS THAT WHY OR IS THIS JUST EVERYONE DECIDES ON THEIR OWN  TO FREE-LANCE THESE THINGS?

>> Dede: EVERYONE DECIDES ON  THEIR OWN TO FREE-LANCE.

I THINK THAT IS A GOOD SUMMARY  OF IT AND, OF COURSE, THE REPUBLICANS ARE SEIZING ON  THIS AS A POLITICAL ISSUE.

DEMOCRATS ARE SEIZING ON THIS  AS A POLITICAL ISSUE IN THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION.

THE  ATTORNEY GENERAL SHOULD BE INVESTIGATING THIS.

AND OUR WATCH DOG GROUPS, NEW MEXICO ETHICS WATCH, FOG AND  OTHERS SHOULD BE REALLY MONITORING THIS, BECAUSE THIS  IS IMPORTANT FOR THE PUBLIC.

IT SEEMS LIKE A SORT OF ARCANE  ISSUE BUT IT REALLY GOES TO THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO KNOW  WHAT IS BEING DONE IN ITS NAME.

AND IN THIS CASE, TO CHILDREN  BY THE GOVERNMENT.

AND I THINK THAT IS PRETTY  IMPORTANT.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

DAN, REAL QUICK, GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM HASN'T COMMENTED  ON THIS.

CAN SHE AVOID THIS OR IS THIS  THE KIND OF STORY THAT GETS WORSE THE LONGER IT IS  IGNORED?

>> Dan: THERE WILL BE  QUESTIONS TO HER ABOUT WHETHER OTHER AGENCIES ARE DOING THIS.

WE'LL SEE WHAT THE AG OR OTHER GROUPS COME UP WITH AND WHAT  THE INVESTIGATIONS LEAD TO BUT I THINK THIS COULD BE THE KIND  OF THING THAT HAS SOME LEGS AND I THINK IT DOES KIND OF  BRING INTO QUESTION PUBLIC TRUST IN GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW,  AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS HAPPENING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS  OR WHERE PEOPLE CAN'T ACCESS IT.

>> Gene: WE ARE JUST TALKING DUMPING TEXT AND THINGS LIKE  THAT.

I DON'T KNOW, I COULD GET TWO  TERABYTES WORTH OF INFORMATION ON A LITTLE PLUG-IN SO WE'LL  SEE HOW THAT GOES.

WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT FOR  SURE.

WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

A CLOSER LOOK AT THE NEW COVID RESPONSE WHEN THIS GROUP COMES  BACK.

>> Dede: THERE ARE SO MANY  VARIABLES FOR THE SCIENTISTS TO LOOK AT BECAUSE CHILDREN  UNDER 16 ARE NOT BEING VACCINATED.

SO, OF COURSE, THERE IS A NEW VARIANT AS WELL, AS ED  MENTIONED.

IT IS A COMPLEX THING BUT I  THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE ARE VERY MUCH HEADED  IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> Gene:   WHEN A MINNEAPOLIS JURY CONVICTED FORMER POLICE  OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN OF KILLING GEORGE FLOYD, WHEN THE  CITY PAID FLOYD'S FAMILY MILLIONS IN A CIVIL  SETTLEMENT, IT SEEMED TO PUT A BOW ON A DARK CHAPTER OF  JUSTICE.

FEW SUCH CASES AGAINST POLICE  OFFICERS ACCUSED OF CRIMES AND CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS END UP  THIS WAY.

IN NEW MEXICO THE FLOYD MURDER  FORMED THE BASIS FOR A NEW LAW THAT CHANGES HOW POLICE  OFFICERS CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR CRIMES  COMMITTED ON THE JOB.

NMIF SENIOR PRODUCER, MATT  GRUBS, SPOKE WITH FOUR LEADING CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEYS THIS  WEEK ABOUT HOW THE CHAUVIN VERDICT INFORMS JUSTICE HERE  IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Matt: THE DEATH OF GEORGE  FLOYD FORCED NATIONAL CONSIDERATION ABOUT THE USE OF  FORCE BY POLICE.

THAT CONVERSATION IS ONE NEW  MEXICO HAS BEEN HAVING FOR QUITE SOME TIME, THOUGH.

LAW ENFORCEMENT HERE SHOOTS PEOPLE DEAD AT RATES OFTEN  HIGHER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE NATION.

ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THOSE SHOOTINGS OFTEN HAPPENS NOT IN  A CRIMINAL TRIAL OR OVERSIGHT HEARING BUT IN A CIVIL CASE.

WE ARE JOINED BY VIRTUAL ALL STAR PANEL OF LOCAL CIVIL  RIGHTS ATTORNEYS, FRANCES CARPENTER, CAROLYN NICHOLS AND  LAURA SCHAUER IVES.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I'LL GET RIGHT TO THE FIRST QUESTION.

FOR NEW MEXICO, IS THE REAL IMPACT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN  MINNEAPOLIS, GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH OR DEREK CHAUVIN'S  CONVICTION.

FRANCES, YOU WANT TO START?

>> Carpenter: I THINK THE CONVICTION WAS FOCUS FOR SO  MANY AND I THINK IT WAS POWERFUL.

HIS DEATH CAUSED A TIDE OF EVENTS TO OCCUR BUT THOSE  EVENTS, AS THOSE OF US ON THE PANEL KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN  FIGHTING FOR YEARS AND SO I THINK IT WAS BOTH.

>> Matt: CAMMIE, HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

DOES THE CONVICTION SEND A MESSAGE THAT THE DEATH DIDN'T  ALREADY?

>> Nichols: YES.

IT ALSO EMPOWERS OTHER JURISDICTIONS TO TAKE SIMILAR  ACTION IF THEY ARE FACED WITH SOMETHING THIS EGREGIOUS.

CLEARLY THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN ANYBODY THAT DIDN'T THINK  THIS WAS A MURDER, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY DIDN'T WATCH THE  VIDEO.

I MEAN, IT WAS JUST APPALLING  AND THE FACT THAT WE CAN CAPTURE THAT TYPE OF THING NOW  ON -- IT IS SO EASY FOR PEOPLE TO CAPTURE THAT ON VIDEO, I  HOPE THAT IN THE FUTURE WHEN PROSECUTORS REVIEW THESE CASES  THEY TAKE SERIOUSLY THEIR OBLIGATIONS TO TREAT POLICE  OFFICERS AS, YOU KNOW, ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING IN A  CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THEY HAVE TAKEN A LIFE.

AND DECIDE WHETHER JUSTICE DEMANDS THEY TAKE THAT PERSON  TO TRIAL AND CHARGE THEM CRIMINALLY.

THEY DID AN EXCELLENT JOB IN  THIS CASE.

I WAS IMPRESSED WITH THE  PROSECUTION.

I WAS TERRIFIED THAT THERE  WOULDN'T BE A CONVICTION AND WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN FOR OUR  COUNTRY IF THERE WASN'T BECAUSE THEY DID DO AN  EXCELLENT JOB.

THEY CLEARLY TOOK THIS  SERIOUSLY AND THEY WERE OUT FOR JUSTICE AND THEY ENDED UP  GETTING JUSTICE, I THINK.

>> Matt: LAURA, THAT EXPOSURE  KIND OF THE LIVE COVERAGE OF THE TRIAL ITSELF, WALL TO WALL  COVERAGE ON MEDIA NETWORKS, WHAT DOES THE CONVICTION IN  THAT KIND OF EXPOSURE SIGNAL TO, EITHER AS CAMMIE SAID,  AGENCIES OR PERHAPS POTENTIAL JURORS WHO SEE THIS SORT OF  THING?

>> Schauer Ives: IT SHOULD  SIGNAL TO EVERYBODY THAT OFFICERS ARE NO LONGER ABOVE  THE LAW AND THEY HAVE, FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, FELT  EMBOLDENED AND THAT HAS BEEN THE LACK OF CRIMINAL  CONVICTIONS, THE LACK OF PROSECUTION, THE LACK OF  ACCOUNTABILITY AS A RESULT OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

AND TO HAVE THIS AND HAVE THE CHANGE THAT WE HAVE SEEN AND  THE CHANGE IN PUBLIC PERCEPTION THAT WE HAVE SEEN  OVER SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND SUCH A MASSIVE  CHANGE, POLICING IS VERY MUCH DOABLE CONSTITUTIONALLY.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMMIT CRIMES AND IT IS NOT -- IT  DOESN'T PUT OFFICERS IN DANGER TO DO IT CONSTITUTIONALLY.

HOPEFULLY, THAT IS WHAT THEY DO GOING FORWARD.

>> Matt: AND I WANT TO GET INTO THAT HERE IN A COUPLE  MINUTES.

LET'S TALK FIRST ABOUT  QUALIFIED IMMUNITY AND THE NEW MEXICO CIVIL RIGHTS ACTS.

IT WAS BORNE OUT OF GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH.

THAT IS WHEN  WE FIRST STARTED DISCUSSING IT LAST SUMMER.

IT ALLOWS CIVIL RIGHTS SUITS IN STATE COURTS AND PROHIBITS  THE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY DEFENSE WHICH IS NOT REALLY A LAW BUT  A LEGAL DOCTRINE, AND IT  PROTECTED POLICE OFFICERS AND SOME OTHER PUBLIC OFFICIALS.

DOES ONE OF YOU WANT TO JUMP IN ON WHY THAT CHANGE IS  IMPORTANT, WHY THE ELIMINATION OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS  IMPORTANT?

>> Schauer Ives: IT IS  IMPERATIVE AND ALLOWED OFFICERS TO NOT BE HELD  ACCOUNTABLE AND ACT ABOVE THE LAW.

THE BASIC DOCTRINE IS THAT UNLESS THERE IS A CASE ON  POINT OR SOMETHING THAT LOOKS IDENTICAL THAT HAS HAPPENED IN  THE PAST, AN OFFICER WON'T BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY THE COURTS  EVEN IF THE COURT THINKS WHAT THEY DID WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

SO, IT ALLOWED OFFICERS TO BEHAVE IN A MANNER THAT  EVERYBODY AGREED WAS UNCONSTITUTIONALLY, YET THEY  WOULDN'T BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN THE CIVIL SYSTEM.

IN NEW MEXICO TO HAVE REALLY A GENUINE RIGHT OF ACTION UNDER  THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION IS A MASSIVELY SIGNIFICANT  CHANGE.

WE HAVE DIFFERENT  CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS THAT ARE GOING TO IMPACT  POLICING IN THIS STATE.

SO, ONE, I THINK, REALLY  FANTASTIC EXAMPLE IS UNDER THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION,  PRE-TEXTUAL STOPS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

SO, LIKE WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT THE CASE OF SOMEBODY STOPPED  FOR AN AIR FRESHENER OR, YOU KNOW -- NEW MEXICO IS  RECOGNIZED IN ITS JURISPRUDENCE THAT PRE-TEXTUAL  STOPS ARE USUALLY ALWAYS OFTEN USED TO RACIALLY PROFILE.

NOW THERE IS A RIGHT OF ACTION AND THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE  LITIGATED ON BEHALF OF SOMEBODY.

THAT TOO WILL  CHANGE POLICING AND IT WILL CHANGE IT INSTEAD OF HAVING TO  GO BACK AND UP AND DOWN THROUGH AN APPEAL IT WILL BE A  LOT FASTER, BECAUSE THERE IS NO QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

IT IS A BIG DEAL.

>> Matt: CAMMIE, HOW IS THAT  DIFFERENT FROM PURSUING A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTION IN FEDERAL  COURT?

>> Carpenter: IT IS DIFFERENT  IN THE SENSE THAT THIS IS GOING TO ALLOW TO BRING CASES  THAT OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT TO BRING  BECAUSE, AS I AM SURE ALL OF THESE ATTORNEYS CAN ATTEST, IT  IS DIFFICULT TO MAKE A LIVING PRACTICING CIVIL RIGHTS LAW.

YOU KNOW.

YOUR ORDINARY CASE, I MEAN THE  ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS LAW WAS TO  ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO ENFORCE CIVIL RIGHTS, EVEN THOUGH  DOING SO MEANT YOU WERE PUTTING YOURSELF AND YOUR  CLIENT AT GREAT RISK OF NO RECOVERY.

AND THEN EVEN IF YOU RECOVER FOR A CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION,  IF IT IS NOT SO EGREGIOUS THAT SOMEBODY HAS DIED OR, YOU  KNOW, THEY HAVE SUFFERED SOME SERIOUS HARM, YOU OFTEN HAVE  CASES WHERE THE DAMAGES ARE INCREDIBLY HIGH.

THEY ARE NOT A LOT IN TERMS OF COMPENSATION, BUT THEY ARE  IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW.

THE IDEA WAS THAT ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS IS IMPORTANT AND  IS GOING TO LEAD TO A BETTER, MORE JUST SOCIETY, SO  ATTORNEYS CAN, THEN, SEEK ATTORNEYS' FEES FOR  PROSECUTING SOMEBODY'S CIVIL RIGHTS CIVILLY AND TAKING  CASES THAT AREN'T HUGE DAMAGES CASES.

THESE AREN'T FIERY  SEMI-TRUCK ACCIDENT CASES.

THESE ARE DIFFICULT CASES TO  TAKE AND WIN AND EVEN THEN, NOT ALWAYS HIGH DAMAGES CASES.

SO I AM HOPING THAT THIS WILL ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TAKE  SMALLER CASES, QUOTE UNQUOTE, IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO TO  REALLY ENFORCE THE BILL OF RIGHTS FOR NEW MEXICANS AND TO  KNOW THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY AT LEAST IF THEY ARE  VICTORIOUS GET ATTORNEYS FEES AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

WHEN FRANCES AND LAURA AND I  ALL STARTED PRACTICING LAW AND WE'RE RUNNING THE RISK IN  INCOME FEDERAL COURT OF GETTING THROWN OUT ON  QUALIFIED IMMUNITY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE AN EXACT FACT  PATTERN AND THEN NEVER RECOVERING ANY ATTORNEYS FEES,  NEVER BEING ABLE TO GET JUSTICE FOR OUR CLIENTS, AND  IT HAS BECOME DIFFICULT TO GET A CASE ALL THE WAY THROUGH  FEDERAL COURT.

AND I AM HOPING THIS IS GOING TO MAKE  THE PATH TO ENFORCE NEW MEXICAN'S CIVIL RIGHTS MUCH  MORE -- SOMETHING THAT MORE PEOPLE FEEL THEY CAN RISK  TAKING ON.

>> Matt: FRANCES, I THINK YOU  WERE GOING TO JUMP IN ANYWAY.

HOW DOES THAT TWO MILLION  DOLLAR CAP ON AWARDS IMPACT THINGS?

>> Carpenter: CONCESSIONS HAD TO BE MADE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY WHAT IS IMPORTANT, IS THAT THERE IS  PUBLIC INTEREST IN GIVING FORCE TO THE LAWS WE ALREADY  HAVE.

WE HAVE HAD A CONSTITUTION IN  NEW MEXICO, YOU KNOW, NOW FOR OVER 100 YEARS.

WHY DON'T WE HAVE A RIGHT OF ACTION WITH REGARD TO THAT  CONSTITUTION?

HOUSE BILL 4 APPLIES TO THE  BILL OF RIGHTS BUT STILL, I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT  LEGISLATION, THAT IS WHAT IS HAVING TO HAPPEN NOW.

BECAUSE OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, THERE IS A PUBLIC INTEREST AND  THE PUBLIC HAS SPOKEN.

THE PUBLIC SAID, WE ARE GOING  TO HAVE -- WE HAVE HAD THESE RIGHTS BUT WE HAVE NO PRIVATE  RIGHT OF ACTION TO BRING FORWARD AND GET JUSTICE FOR  THE VIOLATIONS OF THESE RIGHTS.

THAT IS WHAT HOUSE BILL 4 DOES.

THERE HAD TO BE CONCESSIONS MADE.

ALL OF US ON THIS CALL WORKED HARD IN MAKING CONCESSIONS,  GIVING AND TAKING.

THAT IS THE BUSINESS OF  LEGISLATION.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU  KNOW, I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT A CAP.

I DON'T THINK THERE SHOULD BE A CAP BUT I THINK THAT IT WAS  A FAIR CONCESSION AND I THINK IT WAS SOMETHING THAT NEEDED  TO BE MADE AT THE END OF THE DAY.

BUT I WANT TO JUST CHIME IN ON SOMETHING THAT BOTH LAURA AND  CAMMIE MADE A POINT TO MENTION AND THAT IS QUALIFIED IMMUNITY  IS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE AND IN 1983 WHEN THE CIVIL RIGHTS  ACT WAS ORIGINALLY PUT IN PLACE, IT WAS TO VINDICATE  THOSE VIOLATIONS OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION IS A FLOOR.

IT IS THE FLOOR.

THE STATE CONSTITUTION, STATE  VERSUS GOMEZ, A NEW MEXICO CASE, SAYS THAT YOU CAN  CONFER -- A STATE CAN CONFER MORE RIGHTS.

A LOT OF CITIZENS DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT.

BUT, WHAT WAS SHOCKING TO ME WHEN I WAS SPEAKING TO PEOPLE  ABOUT HOUSE BILL 4, THEY COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT WE  DIDN'T EVEN HAVE, THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME HERE IN 2021 AND WE  HAVE A CIVIL RIGHTS ACT FOR THE FIRST TIME.

THAT IS BLIND BLOWING TO ME, BUT THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO  HAPPEN, IS GOING FORWARD, WHEN COMMUNITIES -- COMMUNITIES ARE  SPEAKING OUT NOW AND THEY ARE SPEAKING OUT WITH LEGISLATION.

I SAID EARLIER, GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH CREATED AN AMAZING WAVE  THAT CAN'T BE IGNORED.

THAT WAVE ARE THE VOICES OF THESE PEOPLE THAT FOR YEARS  WERE SHOT DOWN BY QUALIFIED IMMUNITY WHICH WAS NEVER THE  INTENTION OF THIS LAW.

THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO KEEP  HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND I THINK WE SEE THAT NOW.

THIS IS THE PUBLIC SPEAKING.

>> Matt: SURE.

LAURA, CITIES AND COUNTIES WERE PRETTY VOCAL ABOUT THE  POTENTIAL COST OF THIS.

FRANCES MENTIONED THAT IT WAS  A COMPROMISE TO GET THE CAP IN THERE, BUT YOU POINTED OUT, I  THINK IT WAS ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THERE IS A COST ON THE OTHER  SIDE, A COST TO NOT HAVING A CLEAR PATH TO ACCOUNTABILITY.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>> Laura: THE COSTS ARE MANY.

THE COSTS ARE IN DELAY, FIRST OF ALL.

THE MUNICIPALITY OR THE STATE IS IN THE PROCESS OF DEFENDING  THE CASE, DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE ULTIMATELY.

THERE IS A COST IN TRAINING BECAUSE TRAINING, YOU KNOW,  LAW ENFORCEMENT TEACHES TO THE CASES AND NOT NECESSARILY TO  THE BEST PRACTICES UNDER THE CONSTITUTION.

THERE IS A COST TO US AS TAXPAYERS, BECAUSE DEFENSE  ATTORNEYS ARE BEING PAID LOTS OF MONEY TO FILE THESE MOTIONS  THAT COULD ACTUALLY GO TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HARMED.

AND THERE IS JUST THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL COST TO OUR  SOCIETY THAT ANYBODY THINKS THAT ANY OF THIS IS POSSIBLY  ACCEPTABLE AND THE COST ON THE OTHER, I MEAN, THE COUNTY'S  COMPLAINT, THE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES, MUNICIPAL LEAGUE,  STATE RISK, IT COSTS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IF THEY  DON'T VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION.

AND THAT IS WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

THEY NEED TO TAKE STEPS TO ENSURE THE OFFICER WHO ARE  PROBLEMATIC ARE NO LONGER OFFICERS.

THEY NEED TO TRAIN WELL AND, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO NEED TO  RETHINK WHAT WE ARE FOCUSING OUR EFFORTS ON IN TERMS OF  WHAT WE HAVE CRIMINALIZED, WOULD HELP AS WELL.

THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO DO BUT THE COUNTY'S COMPLAINTS  AND THE MUNICIPALITY'S COMPLAINTS DON'T HOLD WATER  AND I THINK WE'LL SEE THAT GOING FORWARD.

I THINK THERE WILL BE FEWER CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS,   IN FACT, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BEING  HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

>> Matt: CAMMIE, ON THAT  ACCOUNTABILITY, ALBUQUERQUE CERTAINLY IS WHAT A LOT OF  PEOPLE THINK ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY  BECAUSE OF THE DOJ'S FINDINGS IN 2014.

YOU TOLD ME ONCE THAT CIVIL RIGHTS LAWSUITS IN NEW MEXICO,  AT LEAST, HAVE SORT OF TRADITIONALLY BEEN THE WAY  THAT ACCOUNTABILITY HAPPENS.

WHAT IS YOUR READ ON THAT?

WHY IS THAT THE CASE.

>> Nichols: I THINK IT FORCES  THE COMMUNITY TO TAKE SERIOUSLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN  THEIR POLICE FORCE.

SO, EVEN IN A SMALL TOWN MAYBE  ESPECIALLY.

WE HAVE HAD CASES AGAINST  SMALLER POLICE FORCES OFFICERS IN SANTA FE, ESPANOLA, YOU  KNOW, VARIOUS SMALLER TOWNS IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, SOUTHERN  NEW MEXICO AND IN AN ENVIRONMENT LIKE THAT, I THINK  IT EMPOWERS THE COMMUNITY TO SEE THAT SOMEBODY CAN PROVIDE  A CAUSE OF ACTION TO VINDICATE THEIR RIGHTS.

IT CAUSES DISCUSSION AMONG COMMUNITY MEMBERS ABOUT THE  EXTENT OF WHAT IS LAWFUL POLICE BEHAVIOR; WHEN IS  SOMEBODY A VICTIM; WHEN HAVE THEIR RIGHTS BEEN VIOLATED AND  IT CREATES THE ABILITY TO HAVE THESE KIND OF DEBATES IN A  REAL PUBLIC FORUM AND THEN YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THE JURY DECIDE?

YOU ARE TAKING THIS TO A JURY.

OFTEN THESE CASES, WHEN  SHANNON KENNEDY, I FIRST STARTED PRACTICING LAW WE HAD  TO TAKE EVERY SINGLE CASE TO TRIAL BECAUSE MAYOR MARTIN  CHAVEZ WAS NOT SETTLING ANY POLICE ABUSE CASES.

WE WERE IN COURT A LOT FOR THE FIRST 10 YEARS OF OUR PRACTICE  AND TRIED CASES THAT ORDINARILY SHOULD HAVE  PROBABLY SETTLED, BUT IT CREATED A FORUM FOR A JURY TO  WEIGH IN AND WE HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS AND THERE WAS A LOT OF  COMMUNITY DISCUSSION AROUND THAT.

THERE WAS A LOT OF MEDIA ABOUT IT AND I THINK THAT IRONICALLY  THE DECISION NOT TO SETTLE CASES ACTUALLY BROUGHT A LOT  OF POLICE ABUSE TO LIGHT AND A LOT OF VIOLATION OF CIVIL  RIGHTS TO LIGHT THAT OTHERWISE WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD A PUBLIC  AIRING.

THAT IS AN IMPORTANT MEANS OF  CHANGE ESPECIALLY WITH THESE SMALLER CASES THAT PEOPLE  MIGHT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO BRING GIVEN THIS NEW STATE  LAW.

>> Matt: FRANCES, WE JUST HAVE  ABOUT 45 SECONDS LEFT.

YOU MENTIONED SORT OF  COMMUNITIES DECIDING TO SPEAK OUT ON THIS.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU FEEL LIKE GREW OUT OF FLOYD  AND CHAUVIN AND THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE SEEN  SINCE THAT HAPPENED COMING UP ON ALMOST A YEAR AGO?

>> Carpenter: I THINK THAT IS PART OF IT.

BUT I THINK COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN SCREAMING FOR THREE  YEARS.

I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN  SPEAKING OUT FOR YEARS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE  POWERFUL THINGS, AFTER THE VERDICT WAS RENDERED, SEEING  ALL THESE PEOPLE, FINALLY THESE VOICES SCREAM, WE DO  MATTER.

I MEAN I WEPT WHEN I HEARD  THAT AND I GOT CHILL BUMPS BECAUSE THAT IS HOW -- THAT  SAYS IT ALL TO ME.

FINALLY WE MATTER.

YOU KNOW.

ONE THING I WOULD SAY, MATT,  IS THAT THE OTHER THING THAT WE NEED, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE  A LOT OF TIME, WE HAVE GOT TO START WORKING TOWARDS GETTING  A FEDERAL STANDARD FOR POLICE TRAINING.

THE MAJORITY OF POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE SMALL  COMMUNITY POLICE DEPARTMENTS, NOT LARGE DEPARTMENTS.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE ALLOWED TO CREATE THEIR OWN  TRAINING, A LOT OF SMALLER DEPARTMENTS GO TO OTHER  DEPARTMENTS TO TRY TO GET THAT TRAINING.

WE HAVE GOT TO GET A STANDARD.

OKAY?

I JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT SO I THINK IN A COMBINATION WITH  LEGISLATION THAT COMMUNITIES ARE PUSHING FORWARD, WE NEED  TO ALSO START TRYING TO PUSH FOR A NATIONAL STANDARD.

>> Matt: WE'RE OUT OF TIME BUT I THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR  TAKING TIME TO TALK ABOUT THIS WITH US.

I KNOW IT WILL BE IN THE NEWS INEVITABLY AGAIN BUT WE LOOK  FORWARD TO DISCUSSING IT WITH YOU MORE.

THANKS.

>> Gene: SAYING NEW MEXICANS  WERE, QUOTE, CONQUERING COVID GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM  ANNOUNCED THE STATE COULD BE NINE WEEKS AWAY FROM  REOPENING, THEATERS, RESTAURANTS, BARS, THE WORKS.

THE BAR THE STATE NEEDS TO MEET BY THEN IS 60% OF PEOPLE  ELIGIBLE HAVE BEEN FULLY VACCINATED.

IF THAT HAPPENS, SHE'LL REVISE THE PUBLIC HEALTH ORDER AND  LIFT CAPACITY LIMITS AT BUSINESSES.

THE STATES RED, YELLOW, GREEN, TURQUOISE SYSTEM FOR COUNTY  OPENINGS IS ALSO BEING REVISED TO INCLUDE VACCINATION LEVELS.

THE KEY TO ALL THIS SEEMS TO BE VACCINE AND ACCORDING TO  THIS WEEK'S NUMBERS WE ARE 2/3 OF THE WAY TO HAVING ONE  MILLION PEOPLE VACCINATED.

ED, WE SAW THE GOVERNOR FOR  THE FIRST TIME THIS WEEK PUT A DATE POSITIVE ON WHEN WE CAN  GET TO SOMETHING CLOSE TO NORMAL.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE REACTION AND SIGNIFICANCE OF  HER DECISION?

>> Ed: I THINK THIS IS A LONG  TIME COMING.

I HEAR FROM LOCAL BUSINESSMEN,  ESPECIALLY SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, WHO ARE JUST ELATED BY  THE NEWS.

THEY HAVE BEEN WAITING SO LONG  FOR THIS TYPE OF NEWS AND I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF  EXCITEMENT.

THERE IS A LOT OF EXCITEMENT AND EMPLOYEES OUT  THERE WHO ARE WAITING TO GET BACK TO WORK.

I THINK WE ARE SEEKING WHATEVER THAT NEW NORM IS AND  THIS GIVES US OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOME CLARITY AS TO WHAT  THE FUTURE MAY LOOK LIKE.

I KNOW THERE IS STILL WORK TO  DO.

WE NEED TO REACH THAT RATE,  THAT 60% MARK IS WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS SHOOTING FOR BY  JUNE.

BY ALL INDICATIONS WE ARE ON  TRACK TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN BUT I THINK ALL IN ALL IT IS A  POSITIVE ACROSS THE BOARD.

AGAIN, ESPECIALLY THE CORE  GROUP THAT I AM IN CONTACT WITH, SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS,  WHO FELT LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT AND IMPACTED THE  MOST.

>> Gene: I HEAR YOU.

EXACTLY RIGHT.

ON ED'S POINT ONLY VERMONT,  MASSACHUSETTS AND CONNECTICUT HAVE A HIGHER VACCINATION  RATES PER 100,000 THAN NEW MEXICO.

SO, DEDE, WE ARE DOING SOMETHING WELL THERE.

THE GOVERNOR AND DR. SCRASE WERE CLEAR THAT THE 60%  VACCINATION THRESHOLD WAS NOT HERD IMMUNITY HOWEVER.

ARE PEOPLE ITCHING TO GET OUT GOING TO BE CLEAR ON THAT  DISTINCTION?

THAT TERM IS JUST SORT OF  FLOATING OUT THERE FOR EVERYONE'S OWN INDIVIDUAL  INTERPRETATION.

>> Dede: HERD IMMUNITY IS A  DIFFERENT CONCEPT THAN 60% HAVING BEEN VACCINATED.

BECAUSE, HERD IMMUNITY ALSO TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE PEOPLE  THAT HAVE HAD THE DISEASE AND THEN HAVE DEVELOPED  ANTI-BODIES.

SO, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING TO  CALCULATE HERD IMMUNITY, WHICH IS A VERY AMORPHOUS THING, YOU  HAVE TO NOT ONLY LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN  VACCINATED, BUT THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD THE DISEASE AND  THAT GIVES YOU SOME IDEA.

NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SO  MANY VARIABLES FOR THE SCIENTISTS TO LOOK AT.

I MEAN, BECAUSE CHILDREN UNDER 16 ARE NOT BEING VACCINATED.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, THERE IS THE NEW VARIANTS AS WELL, AS  ED MENTIONED.

SO, IT IS A COMPLEX THING BUT  I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE ARE VERY MUCH HEADED  IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

AND, IF WE KEEP OUR MASKS ON  WHEN WE ARE INDOORS AND IF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DOES A  GOOD JOB IN REACHING OUT TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE  SOME HESITANCY IN TAKING THE VACCINE, OR EVEN THEIR SECOND  DOSE OF THE VACCINE, I THINK THAT WE ARE REALLY HEADED IN  THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND WE SHOULD BE, AS GOVERNOR WAS,  VERY PROUD OF OUR EFFORTS HERE AS WE ARE LIKE 400 OR 440 DAYS  INTO THIS REALLY HORRIFIC HISTORIC PERIOD IN OUR NATION.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

DAN, DR. TRACI COLLINS SAID ON  OUR SHOW EARLIER THIS MONTH, HERD IMMUNITY ISN'T A GUARANTY  WITH COVID-19, AS DEDE MENTIONED, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU  TALK ABOUT A POPULATION AS LARGE AND DIVERSE AS AN ENTIRE  STATE, BUT GIVEN THAT ARE WE ASKING FOR TROUBLE BY THROWING  OPEN OUR DOORS AT THE HEIGHT OF TOURISM SEASON?

ANY CONCERN OF SPREAD, BLUNTED BY WHAT WOULD BE A RELATIVELY  HIGH VACCINATION RATE?

ARE WE IN BALANCE HERE.

>> Dan: YEAH, I THINK THERE IS CONCERN THAT THIS HERD  IMMUNITY IS A DIFFICULT NUMBER TO QUANTIFY EXACTLY WHERE THAT  MIGHT BE.

A LOT OF UNKNOWN STILL ABOUT  HOW OFTEN WE MIGHT NEED TO BE VACCINATED, WHETHER PEOPLE WHO  HAVE RECOVERED CAN BE INFECTED AGAIN.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK LIKE ED WAS MENTIONING  TOO, THERE IS THIS PENT UP DEMAND FOR A LITTLE BIT OF NEW  NORMAL AND GET BACK OUT THERE AND CERTAINLY FOR BUSINESSES  WHO HAVE SUFFERED, YOU KNOW, TO BE ABLE TO REOPEN AND STAFF  BACK UP AND HOPEFULLY ENJOY THE SUMMER MONTHS THAT ARE  COMING UP, BUT I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS IN A TOUGH SPOT  THERE.

KIND OF EITHER WAY THERE IS  GOING TO BE RISK.

USING THIS KIND OF VACCINE AS  A CARROT THAT IS 60 PERCENT THRESHOLD, I THINK IT IS  HARDER TO GET TO THAT.

A LOT OF FOLKS WHO WANTED THE  VACCINE HAVE GOT IT AT THIS POINT.

I DON'T THINK GETTING 60% WILL BE A SLAM DUNK NECESSARILY BUT  THE STATE IS LOOKING TO REACH OUT TO COMMUNITIES, WORK WITH  PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO GET OVER  THAT THRESHOLD.

>> Gene: I AM GLAD YOU  MENTIONED THAT.

YOU WERE PART OF THAT PRESS  POOL ON WEDNESDAY FOR THE GOVERNOR.

I HEARD YOU ASK YOUR QUESTION TOO, BUT DR. COLLINS MADE THAT  POINT ABOUT REACHING OUT TO THE PRIMARY CARE DOC.

SHE  EVEN MENTIONED FRIENDS THAT YOU TRUST, I MEAN, SHE SORT OF  COVERED A LOT OF BASES ABOUT HOW ONE CAN GET COMFORTABLE  WITH THE IDEA OF VACCINATIONS.

BECAUSE WE ARE JUST NOT GOING  TO GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE UNLESS WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE  PARTICIPATING.

DO WE NEED SOMETHING MORE THAN  THAT, A CAMPAIGN, A PAID CAMPAIGN OF SOME SORT?

WHAT  DO WE NEED TO DO TO GET MORE FOLKS TO LINE UP AND GET  VACCINATIONS?

>> Dan: SOME OF THAT PROBABLY  HELPS.

A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE A  RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR PRIMARY CARE OR PHYSICIAN AND  MAYBE THERE IS SOME STUFF THERE.

I DO THINK THERE ARE STILL SOME PARTS OF THE STATE WITH  SPANISH LANGUAGE SPEAKING POPULATIONS THAT MAYBE HAVEN'T  BEEN GETTING THE INFORMATION THAT OTHERS IN THE STATE HAVE  BEEN GETTING.

SO SOME MORE OUTREACH TARGETED  AND USING LOCAL GROUPS ON THE GROUND TO BUILD TRUST IN THOSE  COMMUNITIES.

I THINK IT IS DOABLE.

I THINK NEW MEXICO'S EFFORT HAS BEEN LAUDABLE IN A LOT OF  WAYS, BUT I THINK CERTAINLY THERE IS THOSE WHO SAY, JUST  OPEN IT RIGHT NOW.

IT IS NEVER GOING TO BE --  PEOPLE DON'T FEEL LIKE THE VIRUS IS TOTALLY GOING AWAY  ANY TIME SOON.

>> Gene: THE WAY DAN FINISHED  RIGHT THERE, I HEARD THAT SENTIMENT FROM SO MANY PEOPLE.

I WANT TO ASK UNDER THE IDEA OF THE STATE'S MASK MANDATE  STAYS IN PLACE FOR NOW.

INDICATIONS WILL FOLLOW  CDC AT THIS POINT.

NOW WILL OPENING AT THE END OF  JUNE SWAMP ANY MASK MOMENTUM THAT IS LEFT?

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE, THEY JUST WANT TO RIP THESE THINGS  OFF AT THIS POINT AND GET ON WITH IT.

>> Ed: WE TALKED ABOUT THE NEW NORMAL AND WE NEED TO START  BECOMING COMFORTABLE WITH THE NEW NORMAL AND THAT NEW NORMAL  MAY INCLUDE WEARING A MASK.

YOU LOOK IN OTHER COUNTRIES  AND THAT IS THEIR NORM.

I KNOW OFTEN SOMETIMES OUR WAY  OF THINKING, WE LIKE OUR INDEPENDENCE AND THIS MASK MAY  BE CUMBERSOME TO SOME, BUT IN THE INTEREST OF OVERALL  SOCIETY FOR THE LONG-TERM, WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO DO SOME OF  THOSE -- TAKE THOSE STEPS THAT ARE GOING TO ENSURE THAT WE  CONTINUE TO MOVE ON THIS POSITIVE TRACK TO MINIMIZE THE  INFECTIONS OUT THERE.

I THINK IT IS ALL ABOUT THE  INFORMATION AND CONTINUE TO SPREAD THE WORD THAT THE MASKS  CAN BE SOMETHING POSITIVE TO ENSURE THAT WE DON'T SLIP BACK  INTO WHERE WE WERE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.

>> Gene: I CAN'T HELP THINK ABOUT LAST SUMMER AND OUR  SOMEWHAT TOURIST SEASON THAT WE HAD, AND PLACES LIKE RED  RIVER UP NORTH WHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF TEXANS COMING IN.

MASKS WERE NOT PART OF THE EQUATION.

DO YOU GET MY DRIFT HERE?

THEY WERE NOT HAVING IT.

ESPECIALLY, I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE NOW TRYING TO GET  TOURISTS TO WEAR MASK WHILE HERE.

DOES THAT EVEN HAVE A PRAYER?

>> Dede: THERE WILL ALWAYS BE  PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT WEAR MASKS AND THERE WILL ALWAYS BE  PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT BE VACCINATED.

WE HAVE TO CHIP AROUND THOSE EDGES AND I THINK THAT THE  DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IS DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB BY GETTING  PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO TRUSTED VOICES AND THEY HAVE A  CAMPAIGN NOW CALLED TRUSTED VOICES.

AND THEY HAVE, YOU  KNOW, LIKE BLACK ARCHBISHOPS, EMT'S, THEY HAVE -- IT IS A  SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN.

I THINK THERE IS SOME TV  ADVERTISING AS WELL.

I THINK DR. TRACI COLLINS HAS  THE RIGHT APPROACH.

SHE IS ASKING PEOPLE WHY THEY  ARE NOT GETTING VACCINATED?

SHE IS HAVING THEIR PRIMARY  CARE DOCTORS CONTACT THEM AND OFFER THEM THE VACCINE WHEN  THEY COME IN FOR SOMETHING ELSE, BUT BASICALLY TO  COMMUNICATE WITH THEM BECAUSE WHY PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING  VACCINATED, WHY THEY ARE NOT WEARING MASKS, EVERYBODY HAS  THEIR OWN REASON.

AND AS SHE SAID, ONE PRESS  RELEASE IN ENGLISH IS NOT GOING TO DO IT.

YOU HAVE TO MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE.

THAT IS A SORT OF ONE-BY-ONE RETAIL PROCESS, RATHER THAN,  YOU KNOW, DOING SOME SORT OF MANDATORY THING, WHICH I THINK  THEY HAVE REALLY TRIED TO AVOID AT THE STATE LEVEL.

YOU COULD MANDATE TOURISTS TO BE TESTED AT THE AIRPORT.

YOU COULD MANDATE THAT THEY WEAR MASKS FOR ANY KIND OF  RECREATION THAT THEY INDULGE IN.

BUT I DON'T THAT IS BEING CONTEMPLATED.

>> Gene: INTERESTING STUFF THERE.

THAT HAS TO DO IT FOR US.

THANKS AS ALWAYS TO OUR PANEL  FOR THEIR RESEARCH THIS WEEK AND SHARING THEIR OPINIONS.

I AM BACK IN A MOMENT WITH A FINAL FEW THOUGHTS.

THE PANDEMIC HAS FORCED US ALL TO SACRIFICE A LOT OVER THE  LAST YEAR PLUS, BUT, IT HAS ALSO GIVEN US A FEW PLEASANT  SURPRISES.

FOR US HERE AT NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS THAT INCLUDES OUR NEW MEXICO LOCAL NEWS FUND FELLOW,  BRYCE DIX.

HE STARTED WITH US RIGHT AS  THE STAY-AT-HOME ORDER WENT INTO EFFECT AND THOUGH WE  HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO MUCH FACE-TO-FACE WORK OVER THE  LAST YEAR, BRYCE HAS BEEN INTEGRAL TO COVERAGE BOTH HERE  ON THE SHOW AND OUR CANNABIS POD CAST, GROWING FORWARD.

WE ARE SAD TO SEE HIM GO BUT EXCITED ABOUT HIS NEXT  OPPORTUNITY AT KSFR RADIO IN SANTA FE.

AND IN ONE OF THE THEMES OF THIS WEEK'S SHOW, WE ARE ALSO  GLAD THAT NEW MEXICO IS KEEPING A TALENTED JOURNALIST  IN OUR STATE.

BEST OF LUCK, BRYCE, AND  THANKS FOR EVERYTHING.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US  AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU ALL AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.