♪ ♪ >> Bonnie: HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO bO THE CONTRARY,b OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, RECORD DIVERSITY AT THE TOP: THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS SET TO BREAK A RECORD FOR THE NUMBER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENT'S CABINET SO FAR THE PRESIDENT ELECT HAS CHOSEN NINE WOMEN COMPARED WITH EIGHT MEN FOR THE 25 CABINET LEVEL POPE'S PERIODS HE ALSO CHOSE THE FIRST OPENLY GAY PERSON PETE BUTTIGIEG FOR THE CABINET AS TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY AND NINE PEOPLE OF COLOR.

JOINING ME TODAY ARE DONNA EDWARDS, FORMER DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE FROM MARYLAND; HADLEY HEATH MANNING OF THE INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM; RINA SHAH BHARARA OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN FOR BIDEN; AND LAURA BROWN, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY.

WELCOME, EVERYBODY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Bonnie: SO NOW WE HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE DIVERSITY OF THE TOP.

PLEASE TELL ME STARTING WITH YOU, DONNA, HOW'S THAT GOING TO AFFECT THE AVERAGE VOTER WHO VOTED IN THIS TICKET?

>> Donna: WELL, I THINK IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE OF WHO'S AROUND THE TABLE.

AND WHEN YOU ARE -- HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE, THE DECISION-MAKING CHANGES, AND IT WILL CHANGE WITH WOMEN AROUND THAT TABLE ON A RANGE OF ISSUES THAT AFFECT ORDINARY AMERICANS, >> Bonnie: BUT TELL ME, I'M AT HOME IN CLEVELAND AND I WORK AS A HAIRSTYLIST, HOW'S MY LIFE GOING TO IMPROVE BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A MORE DIVERSE CABINET?

GIVE ME THE SPECIFICS.

>> Donna: I THINK THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILIES, YOU WILL KNOW THAT THERE'S, YOU KNOW, A MOM SITTING AROUND THE TABLE WHO JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY, JENNIFER GRANHOLM.

IF YOU ARE A WORKER AND YOU'RE WORKING FOR MINIMUM WAGE, THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND THAT TABLE WHO'VE WORKED FOR MINIMUM WAGE BEFORE.

AND SO, THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF HOW DECISIONS ARE MADE THAT IMPACT YOUR LAWS.

THE CONVERSATION CHANGES WHEN WOMEN ARE FULLY INVESTED IN THE DECISION-MAKING.

>> Bonnie: ALL RIGHT.

YOUR THOUGHTS, HADLEY.

>> Hadley: YOU KNOW, I'M SO HAPPY TO SEE SO MANY WOMEN CONTRIBUTING TO LEADERSHIP POSITIONS AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

AND WE SEE A LOT OF DIVERSITY.

WE'VE SEEN MORE REPUBLICAN WOMEN OF CONGRESS BEING ELECTED THIS YEAR, AND THEY REPRESENT A LOT OF DIVERSITY, WHETHER IT'S DIFFERENT RACIAL BACKGROUNDS, WE HAVE THE FIRST FEMALE GRADUATE -- GRADUATE OF THE CITADEL NOW SERVING IN CONGRESS.

AND SO, THOSE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES WILL MATTER AS THEY BRING THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES TO CONGRESS, TO LAWMAKING, AND, OF COURSE, POLICYMAKING AND ADMINISTRATION.

SO I THINK IT'S WORTH CELEBRATING.

AND AS A MOM OF A YOUNG GIRL, I CAN SAY, LOOK, HERE'S A LOT OF WOMEN YOU CAN LOOK UP TO WHO ARE SERVING OUR COUNTRY.

>> Bonnie: RINA, YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> Rina: WELL, SIMILAR TO HADLEY, I'M ALSO A MOM OF A YOUNG GIRL, TWO OF THEM.

AND SO, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US, RIGHT, TO HAVE A WORLD THAT IS AT LEAST WORKING TOWARDS REFLECTING THE DIVERSITY OF WHAT IS REALLY THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE.

AND WE SEE WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE NOW MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.

I THINK TO MYSELF THAT THIS PANDEMIC HAS REALLY HIGHLIGHTED A BIG PROBLEM, AND THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN FOR A LONG TIME AMERICAN SOCIETY, AND OUR LEADERS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO SERVE THE AMERICAN WORKING WOMAN.

IT'S A MODERN PROBLEM.

AND SO, WHEN WE SEE THEM GROW IN THE RANKS AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, FOR EXAMPLE, A PLACE IN WHICH THEY'VE BEEN LARGELY NOT PRESENT IN PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS, WHETHER YOU LOOK AT WHICHEVER SIDE OF THE AISLE THEY WERE ON.

SO WHEN WE SEE THAT AND WE SEE THEM GROWING NUMBERS THERE, WHAT DO WE GET?

WE GET NUMBER ONE, WHICH I THINK IS MOST IMPORTANT.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENDER, WHICH IS REALLY LESS GROUP THINK.

WE PUSH BACK ON GROUP THINK.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS MOST CONCERNED ABOUT, BECAUSE PRESIDENTS ARE SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE OFTENTIMES b MEN.

I THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

BUT LARGELY WHAT WE'LL SEE IN THE DIVERSITY REFLECTED IN THE STAFF, GENDERS, ETHNICITY, GEOGRAPHICALLY EVEN, WE WILL SEE THAT THE PRESIDENT AND THE VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT WILL BE BETTER SERVED IN THEIR ADMINISTRATION AND THAT'S A GREAT THING FOR YOUNG GIRLS IN THE FUTURE.

>> Bonnie: LAURA, WHAT DO YOU THINK A DIVERSE CABINET WILL HELP UNITE THE COUNTRY OR MAKE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFRAID OF THE BROWNING OF AMERICA, MANY OF WHOM WERE TRUMP OR TRUMP SUPPORTERS GOT EVEN MORE NERVOUS?

>> Laura: WELL, LET ME SAY A COUPLE THINGS: FIRST, IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT THE STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE BY THE HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL BY McKINSEY, AS A CONSULTING COMPANY, HAS SHOWN THAT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY HAVE DIVERSITY WITHIN THE C SUITE, IT REALLY DOES ACTUALLY IMPACT THE PERFORMANCE AND YOU DO SEE BETTER RESULTS.

AND THIS GETS TO YOUR QUESTION.

I BELIEVE THE THAT TRUST WILL BE BUILT ACROSS THE AISLE AS THE RESULTS COME IN.

AND AS THINGS ACTUALLY DO CHANGE, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT ANY POLITICAL ADMINISTRATION HAS TO DO IS NOT JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, BUT DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY WILL BE DOING.

AND WE BUILD TRUST IN INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS, IN FAMILIAL RELATIONSHIPS, AND IN POLITICS BY DELIVERING ON WHAT IT IS WE SAY WE ARE GOING TO DO.

AND IN TERMS OF UNITING, YOU'RE.

>> Bonnie: TALKING ABOUT MAKING PEOPLE FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE.

BUT DO YOU THINK THIS THAT THIS CABINET WILL HAVE MORE IMPACT ON THE ACTUAL LEGISLATIVE CHANGE, ACTUAL BILLS THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, MIGHT SET UP FEDERAL PAID FAMILY LEAVE FOR FEDERAL WORKERS, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS?

ARE WE GOING TO SEE THAT?

>> Laura: YEAH.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD SORT OF PUSH BACK ON WITH RINA A LITTLE BIT IS THAT, ACTUALLY, THE WORKING MOTHER IS NOT NEW.

THAT IS REALLY A NEW REALITY TO THE CLASS CONVERSATION.

IN OTHER WORDS, AMERICANS WHO ARE AT THE TOP OF THE CLASS SPECTRUM HAVE ALWAYS HAD TO JUGGLE WORK AND FAMILY.

AND I THINK WHAT IS SO EXCITING ABOUT WHAT WE SEE IS NOW THAT WE HAVE SORT OF MORE WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN IN POSITIONS WHERE THEY ARE JUGGLING, THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE EMPATHY AROUND WHAT IT MEANS FOR ALL AMERICANS TO TRY TO MAKE ENDS MEET AND REALLY HANDLE THE MULTIPLE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT WOMEN WHO HAVE NOT BEEN SO PRIVILEGED HAVE ALWAYS HAD TO JUGGLE.

>> Bonnie: THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, FORMER -- A FORMER XEROX CEO, URSULA BURNS, AND REPUBLICAN MEG WHITMAN FOR COMMERCE.

WILL SHE BE -- WILL MEG WHITMAN BE THE TOKEN REPUBLICAN OR POSSIBLY ONE OF TWO, IF HE GIVES TWO SEATS TO REPUBLICANS?

DONNA, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS.

>> Donna: YEAH.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY PART OF THE CONSIDERATION.

I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, SORT OF LOOKING AT TWO WOMEN WHO'VE BEEN AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME IN, YOU KNOW, IN CORPORATE AMERICA AND POTENTIALLY BRINGING THEM ON TO THE AS SECRETARY OF COMMERCE.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S A REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT, THAT THAT ADDS, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE AT THE TOP OF HOW IT IS THAT WE SELL OUR BUSINESSES AROUND THE WORLD.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT JOE BIDEN IS THAT HE'S ACTUALLY LOOKING ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

HE WANTS PEOPLE TO CHALLENGE HIM AND HIS IDEAS.

AND HE WAS ACCUSTOMED TO WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE WHEN HE WAS IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE.

THAT WAS HIS ROLE IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, AND HE WANTS TO SEE THAT IN HIS CABINET IN TERMS OF THEM BEING ABLE TO REACH ON THE HILL TO DEVELOP LEGISLATION.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE AN EASY TASK, BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, WHETHER YOU HAVE A REPUBLICAN WHO'S PART OF THE CABINET OR NOT.

WE STILL ARE IN QUITE A DIVIDED COUNTRY.

AND I THINK LARA IS RIGHT, THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE ACTUALLY GETTING THINGS DONE IN ORDER TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT IT'S WORTH THEIR WHILE TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU WORK IN A MORE UNIFIED WAY.

BONNIE ERBE 9:22 Bonnie: DO YOU THINK THAT KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT KAMALA HARRIS HAD A HAND IN ANY OF THESE PICKS?

ANYBODY?

>> Donna: I DEFINITELY THINK THAT SHE WAS -- SHE'S BEEN AROUND THE TABLE IN THE INNER CIRCLE OF THE CONVERSATION AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN SEE -- SEE HER HANDPRINT ON ANY OF THEM.

BUT JOE BIDEN HAS ALREADY DEMONSTRATED -- YOU NOTICE HOW HE ROLLS OUT THESE NOMINATIONS, AND KAMALA HARRIS IS ALWAYS THE BOOKEND IN, YOU KNOW, SORT OF COMPLETING THE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHY THESE NOMINEES ARE -- ARE GOING TO BE PART OF THE CABINET.

AND I MEAN, I DO THINK THAT HE HAS LEARNED FROM HIS ROLE AS VICE PRESIDENT ABOUT HOW HE WANTS TO INTEGRATE KAMALA HARRIS INTO THE DECISION-MAKING IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

>> Bonnie: WHAT ABOUT PETE BUTTIGIEG?

RINA, YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT I I GUESS THE FIRST OPENLY LGBTQ PERSON IS A CABINET MEMBER?

>> Rina: YEAH.

ON WEDNESDAY, YOU KNOW, AND HEARING HIS -- HIS BEING NAMED TO THAT ROLE, AND I LISTENED TO THE ENTIRETY OF IT.

AND AS DONNA JUST MENTIONED, IT WAS INCREDIBLE THAT KAMALA HARRIS BOOKENDS THOSE ANNOUNCEMENTS.

I THINK IT'S REALLY INCREDIBLE.

IT REALLY IS LIKE FINISHING THE CONVERSATION, WHICH IS THE NICE TEAMWORK I REALLY LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THERE IS THAT RESPECT.

AND - AND, FRANKLY, I THINK JOE BIDEN REALLY BELIEVES SENATOR HARRIS --, I MEAN, VP-ELECT NOW IS DESERVING OF THAT.

AND I THINK THAT THAT REALLY JUST BY DOING THAT, IT'S SUCH A BIG GESTURE WITH PETE -- PETE BUTTIGIEG.

YOU KNOW, I'LL BE HONEST, I DIDN'T REALLY QUITE LIKE HIM WHEN HE RAN.

I DON'T KNOW.

THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT HIM.

HE JUST -- HE'S A MILLENNIAL, LIKE ME.

HE SAID TODAY -- ACTUALLY, ON WEDNESDAY, WHEN HE, WHEN HE WAS APPOINTED, AND HE TALKED ABOUT HIS HUSBAND, HOW THEY MET.

HE PROPOSED AT AN AIRPORT.

SO IT'S KIND OF PERFECT THAT HE'S A TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY.

SO THAT WAS REALLY NICE.

IT WAS GOOD TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT FROM HIM ON -- ON REALLY WHO THE AMERICAN GIANTS HAVE BEEN IN THE TRANSPORTATION INDUSTRY.

AND HE'S A GUY WHO COMES PREPARED BECAUSE, OBVIOUSLY, SOMEBODY WHO'S GIVEN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY.

I BELIEVE HE'S STILL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD.

I RESPECT THAT.

AND A MILLENNIAL AGAIN, BUT THERE'S JUST SOMETHING KIND OF DISINGENUOUS TO ME THAT I'VE ALWAYS FELT ABOUT PETE BUTTIGIEG, I JUST CAN'T GET OVER.

AND SO, A PART OF YOU IS KIND OF LIKE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE, AS WE ALL KNOW, SUPER CRITICAL TO THE COUNTRY.

I MEAN, THE LONG, ONGOING JOKE, RIGHT, IS ON THE HILL IS ONE OF THE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK.

BUT, BUT, BUT NO, REALLY GETTING SERIOUS WITH IT IN A WAY, IT'S PUTTING PETE IN A PLACE THAT HE CAN BE AS HELPFUL AS POSSIBLE BUT REALLY NOT HARM THE ADMINISTRATION, AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY ALMOST NOT A GREAT THING.

IT'S KIND OF SAYING, WELL, STAY HERE, IT'S NOT AS PERHAPS SENSATIONAL.

IT DOESN'T PUT THEM IN, IN REALLY THE FRONT AND CENTER, IT IS HUGE, THAT HE'S A CABINET MEMBER.

BUT I REALLY THINK THAT THE WOMEN WHO WOULD FOR EXAMPLE, THE COMMERCE CONVERSATION A SECOND AGO, I MEAN, WHETHER YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN WOMAN WHO HAS BEEN A CEO, LIKE MEG WHITMAN, OR YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SOMEBODY WHO, ON THE ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE, WHO'S BEEN INCREDIBLE, OR WHO WAS PASSED OVER RECENTLY, I THINK OF MICHELLE FLORIDA, FOR EXAMPLE, I JUST THINK THESE ARE THESE ARE DECISIONS THAT ARE THAT ARE BEING MADE WITH A LOT OF CONSULTATION THEY'RE GIVING, THEY'RE GIVING, THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN A LOT OF THOUGHT, BUT I REALLY, REALLY HOPE THAT FOR EXAMPLE, FOR MEG WHITMAN, I JUST DON'T WANT THIS ADMINISTRATION TO KEEP GOING FOR THE MOST, PERHAPS OBVIOUS CHOICES.

MEG WHITMAN, FOR EXAMPLE, JUST SENATOR BECAUSE SHE'S A REPUBLICAN WOMAN, AND LOOK, I'M AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.

AND SO MY JOURNEY.

>> SHE JUST SABOTAGE KWIBI $2 BILLION.

SHE JUST DID THAT THIS YEAR, SHE SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED WITH A SECRETARY ROLE.

I MEAN, I HINK WE NEED TO GO A LITTLE DEEPER.

AND I JUST, I TRUSTED THE BIDEN HARRIS ADMINISTRATION, WE'LL DO IT AFTER THESE BIG ROLES GET NAMED, WHEN THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO NAME SOME OF THE OTHER ROLES.

>> Bonnie: LAURA, LAST QUESTION TO YOU: PRESIDENT TRUMP SORT OF GOVERNED BY EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

AND A LOT OF THOSE, BECAUSE HE COULD NOT GET COOPERATION FROM THE HOUSE DURING MOST OF HIS TERM, JUST AS IT SEEMS UNLIKELY THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP -- PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN WILL GET MUCH SUPPORT FROM THE SENATE AND THE SENATE IS GOING TO WALK OFF ALL KINDS OF PROGRAMS.

BUT, FOR EXAMPLE, ALONG THE WALL, TRUMP HAS WORKERS WORKING, CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, 24 HOURS A DAY, DESTROYING NATURAL HABITATS, IMPORTANT ALONG THE MEXICO BORDER, BUILDING A WALL AND ROADS AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE NORMALLY DON'T GO.

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE BIDEN TO GET RID OF THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT WAS ORDERED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER?

>> Laura: SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT EXECUTIVE ORDERS HAVE BEEN USED BY PRESIDENTS REALLY FOR AT LEAST THE LAST DECADE AND A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL WAY.

I MEAN, THIS DOES NOT JUST GO TO PRESIDENT TRUMP OR TO PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, BUT ALSO DATES BACK TO PRESIDENT BUSH IN THE WAKE OF THE DEMOCRATS WINNING THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE IN 2006.

SO THIS IS THE WAY PRESIDENTS HAVE SEEN THAT THEY COULD DO THINGS.

BUT MORE IMPORTANT IT ALSO IS TRUE THAT EXECUTIVE ORDERS ONLY LAST AS LONG AS YOU ARE THE EXECUTIVE.

IF YOUR SUCCESSOR CHOOSES TO REVEAL THEM.

SO THEY ARE NOT PERMANENT MEANS OF GOVERNING.

THEY ARE, IN FACT, I WOULD ARGUE, SORT OF SECONDARY OR SUBSIDIARY WAYS TO GOVERN.

AND I WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE A PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN, SOON TO BE BITING THE SHERIFF'S ADMINISTRATION, TO SPEND MORE TIME LOOKING TO PASS THINGS LOOKING THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE SO THAT ANY LAW THAT DOES GET PUT IN PLACE CAN HAVE SOME SENSE OF PERMANENCY.

AND, YES, IT IS TRUE, THE REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE MORE CLOUT ON CAPITOL HILL BECAUSE THEY DID WHEN HOUSE SEATS AND THEY ARE LIKELY TO RETAIN THE MAJORITY IN THE SENATE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN SAY THAT THERE IS KIND OF ONE PARTISAN WAY THAT THE COUNTRY OBVIOUSLY WANTS.

IT IS CLEAR FROM THE SELECTION THAT THE COUNTRY ONCE OUR GOVERNMENT TO COME TOGETHER, FASHION BIPARTISAN COMPROMISES, AND FINDING SOLUTIONS, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT A BIDEN HARRIS ADMINISTRATION IS UP TO THAT TASK.

>> Bonnie: WELL, YOU KNOW, LET ME ASK YOU, LAURA, YOU SEE THE COUNTRY WANTS.

I SEE A VERY DIVIDED ELECTORATE, 74 MILLION OF WHOM VOTED FOR THE MOST ARCHCONSERVATIVE, BEYOND ARCHCONSERVATIVE, AND SOME WOULD SAY WITH MENTAL ISSUES GOING ON, PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THEN JUST ABOUT 100 MILLION VOTED FOR JOE BIDEN.

DOES THAT MEAN THEY WANT EVERYBODY TO COME TOGETHER OR DOES IT MEAN -- >> Laura: I WOULD SAY THAT IN SOME WAYS THE RESULTS COULD BE SEEN AS MORE OF AN ANTI-INCUMBENT VOTE, JUST AN ANTI-TRUMP OR ANTI-DEMOCRATIC VOTE.

I THINK THERE WAS SOMETHING OF A REJECTION AT THE DOWN BALLOT OF SORT OF A NANCY PELOSI-CHUCK SCHUMER, DEMOCRATIC IDEOLOGY, AND I THINK AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET, THERE WAS A REJECTION OF DONALD TRUMP'S CHAOS AND CRAZINESS.

AND I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WHEN YOU SORT OF PARSE WHAT IS GOING ON, WE DID NOT WALK AWAY FROM THE 2004 CAMPAIGN AND SEE , G, JOHN KERRY GOT MORE VOTES THAN AL GORE, I GUESS JOHN KERRY'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS REALLY DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.

BUT PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT TRUMP ACTUALLY EARNED MORE VOTES NOW THAN HE DID IN 2016.

WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT IN MANY WAYS THE DYNAMICS WE SAW IN 2004 ARE SIMILAR TO THE DYNAMICS WE SAW IN 2016, LARGELY BECAUSE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE INVERTED IN THE ELECTION BEFORE.

SO I DO THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE A DIFFERENT KIND OF GOVERNANCE.

AND, QUITE FRANKLY, AS I LOOK OUT OF THE COUNTRY, I THINK THAT WE ARE VERY SPLIT IN A SIMILAR WAY TO WHERE WE WERE AFTER THE 2000 ELECTION IN GEORGE W. BUSH AS PRESIDENT FAILED TO, IN FACT, PURSUE A MORE BIPARTISAN GOVERNANCE STRATEGY, AND THAT IS WHY JIM JEFFORDS CHANGED PARTIES.

SO WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT I THINK THE PEOPLE ONLY HAVE A CHOICE OF FOUR OR AGAINST.

AND WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THE SELECTION VOTED AGAINST, AND THAT IS AN IMPORTANT UNDERSTANDING AS YOU LOOK TO ANALYZE YOUR OWN MANDATE.

>> IF I COULD CHIME IN, BONNIE?

>> Bonnie: WE NEED TO SWITCH TOPICS.

I'M SORRY.

WE ARE RUNNING TERRIBLY LONG.

>>> FROM APPLAUDING WOMEN IN GOVERNMENT TO FINDING THEM: THE FEMALE MAYOR OF PARIS SAYS SHE'S, QUOTE, HAPPY TO BE FINED FOR NAMING TOO MANY WOMEN TO HER STAFF.

A 2012 MANDATE CALLS FOR 60 PERCENT CAP ON, AS THE FRENCH SAY, ANYONE GENDER APPOINTMENTS TO SENIOR POSITIONS IN ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY.

MAYOR AND HIDALGO.

11 WOMEN AND FIVE MEN TO HER SENIOR STAFF, MAKING IT 69 PERCENT FEMALE.

HIDALGO SAYS SHE WILL PERSONALLY DELIVER THE CHECK OF ,90,000 TO THE MINISTRY OF PUBLIC SERVICE.

OKAY.

HADLEY HEATH MAYOR HIDALGO IN FRANCE.

DO YOU THINK FROM HER ACTIONS THAT WE WILL SEE A DAY WHEN THERE ARE MORE WOMEN IN POLITICS A ND IN BIG POSITIONS IN POLITICS THAN MEN?

>> Hadley: OH, I THINK IT IS ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT QUESTION, A TREND THAT WE'RE WITNESSING THAT THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN ARE SWELLING AT EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT ACROSS THE WORLD.

THAT'S A TREND THAT I SAID AGAIN IS WORTH CELEBRATING.

IT'S INTERESTING TO ME THAT THIS CODE RULE IN PARIS SEEMS TO NOW BE BACKFIRING ON WOMEN WITH A LIMIT ON WOMEN, AND WE SHOULD NEVER PUT LIMITS IN TERMS OF WHAT WOMEN CAN DO, OR MAN, FOR THAT MATTER.

AND WE HAD INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM ARE CRITICAL OF GENDER QUOTAS FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.

YOU THINK THEY UNDERMINE WOMEN'S SUCCESS, BUT IN THIS CASE HERE IS YET ANOTHER REASON TO SIMPLY LET WOMEN'S PROGRESS AND DEVELOPMENT INFLUENCE IN GOVERNMENT AND IN OTHER AREAS LIKE CORPORATE BOARDS GROW NATURALLY AND ORGANICALLY.

WE HAVE BEEN WATCHING, FOR EXAMPLE, WOMEN GROWING IN THE RANKS OF OUR EDUCATED WORKFORCE, NOW MAJORITY OF THE WORKFORCE, COLLEGE EDUCATED WORKFORCE IN THE UNITED STATES IS FEMALE.

MORE BACHELORS, MASTERS AND DOCTORATE DEGREES ARE EARNED BY WOMEN.

AND SO I THINK IT'S SIMPLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE WOMEN CAN REACH THE PINNACLE OF EVERY PROFESSION, AND HAVE THE REPRESENTATION THAT REFLECTS WHO WE ARE IN THE POPULATION.

>> Bonnie: DONNA, QUOTAS THROUGHOUT EUROPE HAVE IN GOVERNMENT TO ASSURE THAT WOMEN ARE AT LEAST A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF CORPORATE BOARDS, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE WORKED REALLY WELL.

THIS ONE, NOT SO MUCH.

SO IS THAT A SIGNAL THAT WE'RE BEYOND THE TIME WHERE WE NEED QUOTAS?

WELL, I MEAN, I THINK, YOU.

>> Donna: KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, IF YOU LOOK IN THE UNITED STATES IN TERMS OF GOVERNING, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE NOW HAVE RECORD NUMBERS OF WOMEN IN THE CONGRESS, RECORD NUMBERS OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN WHO WERE JUST ELECTED, IN THIS PAST ELECTION, THAT IT'S STILL ONLY A, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, BARELY A QUARTER, NOT EVEN A QUARTER OF OUR CONGRESS AND OF OUR SENATE.

AND SO WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

WE SEE THAT IN C SUITES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS WELL.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT THAT -- THAT KIND OF QUOTA SYSTEM WILL WORK NECESSARILY FOR THE UNITED STATES.

BUT I DO THINK IT'S VERY RICH, THAT AFTER 1000S, OF YEARS OF CONTROLLING EVERYTHING THAT MEN ARE GETTING, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE TWITCHY ABOUT HAVING, YOU KNOW, MORE WOMEN IN POWER IN PARIS THAN, THAN MEN.

SO -- >> Bonnie: BUT, WAIT A MINUTE, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND.

YOU SAY MEN GETTING TWITCHY, BUT ALL THEY WERE DOING WAS ENFORCING THE LAW AS IT WAS PASSED.

>> Donna: YEAH, I MEAN, I HEAR THAT, BONNIE, IT'S JUST THAT I DO THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE MAY BE LIMITATIONS THERE.

I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD, AND THE NEW AND GROWING DEMOCRACIES, THAT THOSE QUOTAS ARE PUT IN PLACE, BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE NO POWER WHATSOEVER, AND SO I TOTALLY GET THAT.

BUT YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE SOME, YOU KNOW, LIMITATIONS ON ON THOSE THINGS, I JUST FIND IT KIND OF AMUSING THAT THE RESPONSE FOR MEN IS LIKE SUCH OVERWHELMING, YOU KNOW, THIS CRIES OF DISCRIMINATION.THEY'VE HAD CONTROL OF THINGS FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

>> Bonnie: ANYBODY ELSE?

RINA QUICKLY.

>> Rina: THIS IS A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING I LOVE, WHICH IS RANK CHOICE VOTING, BECAUSE I AM NOT A FAN OF QUOTAS.

BUT I LOVE RANK CHOICE VOTING, AS A SYSTEMS WERE FORMED.

BECAUSE THERE'S JUST BEEN SO MUCH GOOD RESEARCH DONE ABOUT IT.

AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM CAN GET BEHIND.

NOT ONLY DOES RANK CHOICE VOTING PROVED TO BE A BETTER SYSTEM FOR ELECTING WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, TO RUN FOR ESSENTIALLY WIN OFFICE.

BUT IT ALSO REALLY PROVIDES.

AND IT'S AT ITS HEART, A REALLY SENSIBLE SOLUTION, WHICH ADDRESSES SO MANY OF THE DOWNFALLS IN OUR FIRST, THE FIRST PAST THE POST, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THAT'S WHAT OUR CURRENT VOTING SYSTEM IS.

AND SO OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, WHAT WE FIND IT OFTEN RESULTS IN CANDIDATES AND NOMINEES AS WELL AS OUR REPRESENTATIVES.

THEY WIN WITH LESS THAN A MAJORITY OF THE VOTES CAST.

SO BASICALLY, WHEN VOTERS SEE THAT THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, I DON'T REALLY FEEL REPRESENTED BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WINNING ARE NOT PEOPLE THAT I REALLY SUPPORT.

WHEN YOU PUT RANKED CHOICE VOTING IN PLACE, YOU GIVE VOTERS AN OPTION, PEOPLE FEEL MORE BOUGHT IN.

AND I THINK THAT'S JUST SUCH A SENSIBLE SOLUTION MORE PEOPLE CAN GET BEHIND, AND QUOTAS.

THE PARIS STORY SAYS AT ALL, WHEN YOU PUT THESE HARD NUMBERS IN PLACE, COME ON, IT'S LIKE IT'S LAUGHABLE.

BUT I'M WITH DONNA.

I UNDERSTAND.

I MEAN, I I THINK IT'S HILARIOUS IF THE MEN AFTER ALL THIS TIME ARE SORT OF STICK TO THE NUMBERS.

WELL, IF YOU'VE GOT COMPETENT QUALIFIED PEOPLE GETTING PUT INTO THOSE ROLES, WHAT'S IT MATTER THEIR GENDER?

THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I LOVE.

>> Bonnie: AND WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS, HADLEY, I'M RANKED CHOICE VOTING?

>> Hadley: WELL, I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH SOME OF MY CO PANELISTS THERE HAVE BEEN JURISDICTIONS THAT HAVE TRIED RANK CHOICE VOTING AND HAVE ABANDONED IT BECAUSE SOME REALLY STRANGE THINGS CAN HAPPENING.

IT CAN IT CAN IT CAN CREATE QUASI MAJORITIES WHEN VOTES ARE REDISTRIBUTED, IT CAN BE UNFAIR TO DOWN BALLOT CANDIDATES, IT CAN BE REALLY CONFUSING FOR VOTERS.

AND SO I, I WOULDN'T CHANGE SOMETHING SYSTEMIC ABOUT THE WAY THAT WE VOTE.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT IF WE FOLLOW THE TREND, WE WILL SEE MORE WOMEN ELECTED SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT PROGRESS IS GOING.

>> Bonnie: ALL RIGHT.

ON THAT NOTE, WE END THINGS.

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