>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR REPORTER'S ROUND TAUBL IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT N REALTOR.COM.

RJW BARNIBUS HEALTH.

AND SERVING THE INSURANCE NEED OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY NJ NNG BUSINESS MAGAZINE, THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.

ORTING TO THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

♪ ♪ >>> HELLO, WELCOME TO REPORTER'S ROUND TABLE I'M DAVID CRUZ.

SO, WE MADE IT TO THE INAUGURATION.

WE GOT A NEW PRESIDENT, NOW IT'S TIME TO GET TO WORK.

IT'S THE FIRST WEEK OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, AND TWO BIG PROPOSALS ALREADY COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, IMMIGRATION AND COVID RECOVERY/STIMULUS.

THOSE MAY SOUND LIKE TWO VERY SEPARATE ITEMS, BUT THEY COULD BOTH HAVE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON THE ECONOMY.

THAT'S WHERE WE START TODAY, OUR GUEST IS AN ECONOMIST AND PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY, BILL RODGERS.

PROFESSOR, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> DAVID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME AND HAPPY NEW YEAR.

>> THANK YOU.

SAME TO YOU.

SO, LET ME START WITH YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE INAUGURAL THIS THIS WEEK.

JUST YOUR GENERAL THOUGHTS AND WHETHER YOU THOUGHT THE PRESIDENT SET IS AN APPROPRIATE TONE TO REFLECT THE TOUGH ECONOMICTIMES WE ARE IN.

>> YEAH, I THINK HE A DIFFICULT CHALLENGE TO REACH OUT TO, LIKE ALL AMERICANS.

AND I THINK HE DID A GOOD JOB.

I HE WAS HONEST IN HIS ASSESSMENT OF WHERE WE ARE, AND HE OFFERED A BOLD SET OF INITIATIVES AND AGENDAS FOR ATTACKING THIS.

THESE ISSUES AND THE WAY I LIKE TO THINK ABOUT IT IS A THE THREE Rs THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THAT WERE TALKED ABOUT IN THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

RELIEF, RECOVERY, AND REIMAGINATION.

AND HE HIT ON ALL THREE OF THOSE.

THAT THE RELIEF WE HAVE ON TO PROVIDE IMMEDIATELY.

THERE'S AN EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT KIM OUT FRIDAY, AND HE HAS GOT OTHER ROW OPPOSAL THAT I THINK WE WILL TALK ABOUT IN A MINUTE THAT OF $1.9 TRILLION.

>> SO, THANKS FOR TEE'ING THAT UP FOR ME, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE STIMULUS PACKAGE.

$1.9 TRILLION IN IT, WHAT IS IN IT FOR US AND WHY SHOULD JERSEY BE HAPPY ABOUT IT OR SHOULD WE BE?

>> I THINK WE SHOULD BE.

I THINK NUMBER ONE, WE SHOULD BE HAPPY IN THAT, WE ARE FINALLY GOING TO SEE SOME DIRECT STATE AID.

STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT AID, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE PREVIOUS TRAUNCHS OF AND I'M STILL CALLING THEM, PEOPLE CALL THEM STIMULUS .

BUT I'M STILL CALLING THEM RELIEF AND RECOVERY EFFORTS.

SO, I SERVE ON THE GOVERNOR'S RESTART AND REOPENING COMMISSION, AND ECONOMISTS BEN BERNANKE AND MYSELF AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN LOBBYING SINCE THE BEGINNING OF OUR COMMISSION WORK LAST SUMMER TO GET DIRECT DATA.

AND THE REASON IT'S SO IMPORTANT IS THAT STATES, DURING THIS TIME WILL BE HARD PRESSED TO RAISE TAXES PARTICULARLY ON GENERAL POPULATION ANDS ALSO, THEY ARE STILL REQUIRED TO BALANCE THEIR BUDGET.

SO, IN THIS TIME OF SEVERE NEED, THE STATE AND LOCAL DIRECT AID WILL BE REALLY, REALLY GOOD.

>> IT'S EARLY IN AN ADMINISTRATION AND PEOPLE ARE STILL HIGH ON COOPERATION, THERE'S OBJECTIONS ALREADY TO THIS.

WHAT ARE PEOPLE COMING AT IT IN TERMS OF OBSERVJECTIONS TO THIS.

I THINK THE TAXES THAT HE IS PROPOSING AND 1.9 TRILLION.

HE SAYS HE IS NOT RAISING TAXES ON FAMILIES WITH INCOMES BELOW $400,000 THAT HE WANTS TO RESTORE SOME OF THE TAX RATES TO WHAT THEY WERE, I OBJECT, DURING OBAMA.

AND YEAH, THAT SEEMS REASONABLE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY SEEM TO BE DOING WELL FINANCIALLY LIKE ALL AMERICANS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FACING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES OF ISOLATION IN THE PANDEMIC SO THE TAX PIECE WILL BE THE TOUGH ONE.

THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE WILL BE A CHALLENGE.

HOW DO YOU DO THE IT DURING A PANDEMIC WITH WEAKER DEMAND, 21 STATES IN THE BEGINNING OF JANUARY RAISED THEIR RATES.

DID THEIR SORT OF ANNUAL ADJUST MENTS, AND SOME PULLED BACK AND DELAYED THE INCREASES.

>> I WANT TO TOUCH ON THE IMMIGRATION REFORM BILL.

I MEAN, IT'S BOLD BY ANY STANDARD.

CERTAINLY WHEN COMPARED TO THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.

YOU COULD THINK THAT THIS PROPOSAL IS ABOUT CITIZENSHIP AND 10 MILLION POTENTIAL NEW VOTERS FOR DEMOCRATS.

BUT THE IMPACT OF SO MANY PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THE SHADOWS, WHAT KIND OF IMPACT COULD SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAVE ON THE ECONOMY?

>> WELL, I THINK FIRST, THERE'S A BIG PIECE, AND IT'S ALSO REPRESENTATIVE IN THE PRESIDENT'S INAUGURAL ADDRESS.

AND THE SLEW OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

IT'S REALLY BEEN ABOUT PROVIDING AGENCY BACK TO AMERICANS.

EMPOWERING AMERICANS AND HELPING STRENGTHEN THEIR IDENTITY.

THEIR PERSONAL IDENTITIES.

THEIR FAMILY IDENTITIES, THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD IDENTITIES, THAT WILL BUILD REALLY STRONG WILL.

WITH REGARD TO THE ECONOMICS OF THIS, THAT YOU NOW HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE W-2 AND 10-99 WORKERS AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE PAYING TAXES AND ADD TO THE TREASURY, AND THERE'S THE CONSUMPTION ASPECT OF WHAT THESE PEOPLE WILL BRING TO THE ECONOMY.

THEY WERES OF THE, YOU KNOW, SPEND A DOLLAR AND MANY OF THEM WILL SPEND DOLLARS ON NECESSITIES.

ON CLOTHES, GROCERIES, INVESTING IN THEIR CHILDREN AND THE FUTURE.

IT WILL BE A GREAT THING FOR AMERICA.

IT WILL EXPAND OUR NATIONAL INCOME, EXPAND THE PIE.

>> MEANWHILE, RIGHT NOW, JOBLESS CLAIMS ARE UP AGAIN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ALMOST A MILLION.

BUT NEW JERSEY'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE DROPPED FROM 10.2% TO 7.6.

NOW, NEW UNEMPLOYMENT FILINGS ARE DOWN OVER 20% AND SHOULD BE GOOD NEWS.

BUT IT'S NOTALLY ARE, RIGHT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A THING I SAY WITH MY STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, ONE OUTCOME OR ONE MONTH'S DATA DOES NOT MAKE A TREND.

YOU KNOW, IT'S GOOD TO SEE THAT DROP.

BUT WE NEED TO SEE IT SUSTAINED.

AND THAT'S WHY, THE PRESIDENT AND GOVERNOR CONTINUE TO STRESS, WE HAVE TO GET THE PUBLIC HEALTH PIECE OF THIS RIGHT FIRST.

THE PUBLIC HEALTH HAD DRIVE ECONOMIC HEALTH.

WE STARTED TO HAVE TWO MORE MONTHS ROUGHLY, IF I'M NOT A WEATHER PERSON, BUT WE STILL HAVE TWO MORE MONTHS OF WINTER.

I'M HEARING IT WILL BE MILD, BUT STILL, THAT'S DOING TO PUT PRESSURE ON CREATING A DRAG ON THE ECONOMY.

SO, WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THESE CHANGE IN TONES AND THE BIPARTISAN SHIP EFFORTS.

THE BIG THING, IS THE NEW TREASURY SECRETARY IS, JANET YELL EN SAID IN HER TESTIMONY, E HAVE TO GO BIG, MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE GOING TO PROVIDE THE REST OF THAT BRIDGE TO RECOVERY, AND SO WE CAN THEN BEGIN TO DO RENAJ ECONOMY, ADDRESS SYSTEM ISSIC RACISM AND SYSTEMIC SEXISM AND IMPROVE THE EARNINGS AND EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR ALL AMERICAN WORKERS WHO HAVE SEEN THEIR ABILITY TO EXCEL CHALLENGED OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES.

>> ALL RIGHT, WELL, A LOT OF CHANGES STILL FACING US.

PROFESSOR BILL RODGERS, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, LIKEWISE.

>> LET'S BRING IN CHARLES STYLE, HE IS POLITICAL COLUMNIST FOR "THE RECORD."

AND NICK CARANINI IS POLITICAL REPORTER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES AND MICHAEL AARON IS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

I WANT TO ASK YOU YOUR OPINION, AFTER A CRAZY MONTH OF JANUARY AND COMING AFTER AN INSANE 2020.

NICK, LET'S START WITH YOU, YOU TRAVELED ACROSS THE COUNTRY OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS YOU HAVE SEEN THIS PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION UP CLOSE.

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN THINKING AS YOU HAVE WATCHED EVENTS THIS MONTH STARTING ON JANUARY 6TH, AND IN TO THIS WEEK?

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US REALLY EXPECTED EVEN AS WE SAW THE, YOU KNOW, RHETORIC COMING OUT FROM THE PRESIDENT AFTER HE LOST THE ELECTION CLAIMING IT WAS RIGGED.

YOU KNOW, SIMILAR THINGS THAT HE SAID FOR YEARS AND BEFORE HE WON IN 2015, AND 2016 HE WAS PROCLAIMING THAT THE ELECTION WOULD BE RIGGED AND IF HE LOST, THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON WHY.

AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE REALLY ANTICIPATED THAT HIS SUPPORTERS WOULD TAKE IT TO THE LEVEL OF STORMING THE CAPITOL AND BRINGING AN INSURRECTION.

I THINK IN AN ODD WAY, YOU MENTIONED WHAT IS THE STATE OF THE UNION?

I THINK THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th WERE SO HORRIFIC AND THEY STRUCK SO MANY PEOPLE IN A WAY THAT WERE NOT PAYING ATTENTION OR LOOSELY GOING ALONG WITH THE RHETORIC THAT WAS GOMCOMING OUT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THEY REALIZE, THIS WENT WAY TO TOO FAR.

AND IT'S TIME TO KIND OF START HEALING.

NOW, ALL OF THE FEELINGS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF COME AND GO QUICKLY ESPECIALLY IN THE CURRENT POLITICAL ERA WHERE THINGS ARE MORE POLARIZED THAN WE HAVE SEEN.

WHATEVER -- I THINK BACK TO A STORY I DID AT THE END OF THE 2016 ELECTION WHERE I ASKED A BUNCH OF TRUMP SUPPORTERS WHAT HAPPENS IF HE LOSES?

YOU KNOW, THE POLLS WERE SHOWING CLINTON WAS GOING TO WIN.

AND THEY SAID, IT WILL BE TIME FOR A REVOLUTION AND WHEN HE WON, THEY OBVIOUSLY DID NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

NOW, WE WONDER HOW MANY OF THEM REALIZE THAT JANUARY 6th WAS A TRUE CRISIS IN OUR COUNTRY AND IT'S TIME TO MOVE PAST IT.

OR WHETHER THEY KIND OF STICK TO IT.

AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN TO KIND OF BRIDGE THE GAP WITH SOME PEOPLE.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE INCUMBENT ON LAW ENFORCEMENT TO SEEK OUT THOSE THAT ORGANIZED IT.

IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT THE QUOTE UNQUOTE, STATE OF THE UNION.

I THINK IT'S KIND OF UNCERTAIN AT THE MOMENT.

CHARLIE YOU DID WORK ON THIS, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S DISH AGREE WITH MOST OF THAT, WITH NICK, BUT I THINK THERE'S A HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF THAT AMERICA NOW HAS BEEN GRANTED A CHANCE TO HIT THE RESET BUTTON WITH A MORE CONVENTIONAL PLAY BY THE RULES PLAY WITHIN THE NORMS PRESIDENT.

AND I HEAR THAT NOT JUST FROM DEMOCRATS AND LIBERALS BUT SOME MODERATE REPUBLICANS.

THEY FEEL THAT, THAT THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th WERE ALARMING.

THAT THIS REALLY DROVE A CRACK IN THE FOUNDATION OF DEMOCRACY AND BROUGHT THAT HOME IN A WAY THAT WE HAVE, ALL THE RHETORIC LEADING UP TO IT FAILED TO ILLUSTRATE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT EXPECTATIONS NOW ON BIDEN AND I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST LIMITED TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THAT WAS ON ITS HEALS THROUGH MOST OF THE TRUMP ERA.

>> MICHAEL AARON, HAS THE FEVER BEEN BROKEN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> I THINK THAT THE WHOLE TONE OF THE COUNTRY CHANGED ON WEDNESDAY.

TRUMP DISAPPEARED EARLY IN THE MORNING.

AND BIDEN HIT ALL THE RIGHT NOTES IN HIS SPEECH.

YOU COULD, YOU COULD JUST SENSE A KIND OF CALM SETTLING OVER THE NATION.

AT LEAST OVER THE BLUE PARTS OF THE NATION.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY FELT IN RED COUNTRY.

THE WHOLE DAY WAS WELL PRODUCED.

IT HAD TB A TELEVISION REDUCTION LIKE THE CONVENTION WAS BECAUSE OF COVID.

AND IT WAS SO IMPRESSIVE IN THE MIDST OF ALL THIS POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE, JOE BIDEN SIGNED ABOUT 17 EXECUTIVE ORDERS FULL OF POLICY THAT HAD BEEN DEVELOPED DURING THE TRANSITION.

I THINK THE CHIEF OF STAFF, RON K ELEMENT AIN SO FAR HAS DONE A GREAT JOB, WHAT THEY HAVE PUT OUT IN THE WAY OF POLICY IN TWO DAYS, THREE DAYS NOW.

HAS BEEN VERY, VERY IMPRESSIVE.

>> NOW, THE HARD PART, I GUESS, GOVERNING IN A FRACTURED COUNTRY.

CHARLIE, WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES POLITICALLY FACING THE NEW ADMINISTRATION.

OBVIOUSLY WE ARE DIVIDED, CONGRESSES.

I MEAN, WE, IT'S A SHRUNKEN -- IN SOME WAYS THIS WILL GIVE THE REPUBLICANS A LEVER OF POWER IN THE SENATE.

AND IT WILL ESPECMPOWER A LOT O MODERATES FROM BOTH PARTIES.

IT STANDS TO REASON THAT BIND WILL COME OUT WITH BOLD PROPOSALS, KNOWING THAT THEY WILL PROBABLY, IF HE IS SUCCESSFUL, THEY ARE GOING TO BE WATERED DOWN MORE TOWARD THE MIDDLE ARE WHERE THEPOWER NOW LIES.

SO, I THINK, I DO THINK THERE'S A, HE IS DOING TO HAVE A HO HONEYMOON, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO LAST LONG.

I FEEL THE DIVISION IS SO STRONG AND I THINK THE REAL TEST YOU HAD WILL SEE IS ON THIS IMMIGRATION REFORM.

THAT HAS, THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, WAS THE SIX, EIGHT YEARS AGO THE GANG OF EIGHT WAS ON THE PRECIPICE OF PASSING THIS AND GOT SABOTAGED AND NOW YOU HAVE A MIDDLE OF THE ROAD DEMOCRAT ADVANCING A MORE AGGRESSIVE PROPOSAL.

I THINK IF HE GETS THAT THROUGH, WE ARE IN FOR A NEW DAY.

I'M NOT TOO SANGUIN ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW UNFORTUNATELY.

>> THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT LEFT OFFICE IN A HUFF.

IS HE DONE, IS HE RESTING?

WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM HIM IN THE NEAR AND LONG-TERM?

>> I THINK ONE THING AND IT'S ACTUALLY GETTING BACK TO THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION.

YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT LOSING HIS TWITTER ACCOUNT WAS A AMONG THE BIGGEST POLITICAL WOUNDS HE HAS SUFFERED.

IF YOU JUST THINK OF THE QUOTE UNQUOTE CALM OVER THE NATION.

IT'S BECAUSE OUR PHONES ARE NOT BUZZING AT GOD KNOWS WHAT HOUR WITH WHATEVER ACCUSATION, FALSE STATEMENT, MILL ITARY ACTION TH WE ALL USED TO RECEIVE.

AND EVERY REPUBLICAN WORRIED ABOUT GETTING THE LASHING TWEET FROM THE PRESIDENT.

WITHOUT HIM REACHING SUPPORTERS AND NO FILTERING FROM THE MEDIA AND FACT CHECKING, IT'S KIND OF WOUNDED HIS ABILITY TO KIND OF STAY AS RELEVANT AS HE BEEN FOR SO LONG.

THAT SAID, HE STILL IS IMMENSLEY POPULAR WITH A BIG PORTION OF THE REPUBLICAN BASE.

AFTER THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT THOUGHT HE WENT TOO FAR.

THERE'S PLENTY THAT STILL ARE STANDING CLOSELY WITH HIM.

AND THERE'S BEEN REPORTS THAT HE HAS BEEN CONTEMPLATING A, A THIRD PARTY, CALLED PATRIOT PARTY, WE HAVE NOT SEEN MUCH ELSE OUTSIDE OF THE REPORTS AND THERE'S HIS FAMILY.

THERE'S RUMORS THAT IVANKA WANTS TO RUN FOR SENATE IN FLORIDA.

THERE'S LONG BEEN RUMORS THAT DONALD TRUMP, JR. IS CONSIDER CANNING A SENATE RUN IN PENNSYLVANIA.

ALTHOUGH, AT LEAST I DID NOT FIND ANY ACTUAL LEGS THERE.

BUT I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE A TRUMP PRESENCE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

WITHOUT HTHAT TWITTER ACCOUNT, IT'S NOT GOING TO FEEL AS OMNI PRESENT.

>> MICHAEL AARON, OLD PRESIDENTS GENERALLY FADE AWAY.

DO YOU THINK THERE'S AN AUDIENCE FOR TRUMP ON THE NATIONAL STAGE?

EVEN NIXON REPAIRED HIS IMAGE SOMEWHAT AFTER HE LEFT OFFICE.

>> I THINK THE THERE'S AN AUDIENCE FOR HIM, AND PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT HE IS UP TO, BUT I THINK HE IS FINISHED POLITICALLY.

THE EVENTS OF THE PAST TWO MONTHS, THE DENYING OF BIDEN WINNING THE ELECTION IS JUST SO BEYOND THE PALE THAT I CAN'T SEE A PARTY RALLYING AROUND THIS GUY IN 2024.

I THINK, THE INDIVIDUAL POLITICIANS WHO HAVE ASPIRATIOMS TO BE PRESIDENT, THEY DON'T WANT HIM AROUND IN 2024.

YES, AS NICK POINTED OUT, HE IS VERY POPULAR WITH HIS BASE.

BUT AS WE LEARNED, THAT BASE IS ABOUT 32% OF THE COUNTRY.

NOT 62%.

I THINK HE JUST DISGRACED HIMSELF IN THE FINAL TWO MONTHS OF HIS PRESIDENCY AND IT'S NOT AS IF HE NOT DONE IT BEFORE IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> CHARLIE, NOW THERE'S A SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL LOOMING.

YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO FIND TRUMP GUILTY?

A LOT OF REPUBLICANS SEEM TO BE FREED OF ANY KIND OF LOYALTY TO PARTY.

AND IT MAY GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO FIND HIM, FIND THE VOTES TO, TO GET A GUILTY PLEA OR GUILTY VERDICT OUT OF THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL?

>> I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE NOW.

IT'S HARD TO READ.

BUT I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE.

GIVEN THE BEHAVIOR OF MITCH McCONNELL WHO HAS BEEN ACCUSING HIM OF PROVOKING THE HOB AND SEEMS TO BE WILLING TO LET THIS HAPPEN.

HOWEVER -- WHETHER OR NOT HE THE -- HE HAS THE INFLUENCE TO BRING ENOUGH REPUBLICANS ALONG REMAIN-S TO BE SEEN.

WE ARE SITTING A THIS POINT NOW AND TAKING A STATISTIC I CAN LOOK AT THIS IS WHERE WE ARE AT THIS MOMENT.

WE HAVE SEEN THE PAST TWO MONTH S THINGS RAPIDLY EVOLVE.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO LOOK OVER THE HORIZON ON THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE.

2022, AND EVEN BEFORE '24 AND REALLY WOULD LIKE IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS TO BE, TO HAVE HIM MOVE OFF SHORE AND NOT BE A PRESENCE.

AND -- AND THEN TO LOOK AT 2024 AND TO ROB HIM OF THE ABILITY TO RUN AGAIN, I THINK IS SOME -- THAT'S KIND OF LONG-TERM PLANNING.

I THINK IS NOW MOVING TO THE FORE OF THE THINKING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHETHER OR NOT THAT WILL TRANSLATE, LET'S REMEMBER ARE, THEY ARE ENTHRALLED TO A BASE THAT SEES HIM AS A HERO.

I THINK THE TENSION -- RIGHT NOW, I SAY THE LOYALTY THAT A FEELTY TO THE BASE AND TO TRUMP WILL PREVAIL, BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT IT IN TWO WEEKS TIME.

>> YEAH.

NICK, CHARLIE MAKES A GOOD POINT, A GUILTY VERDICT COULD RELIEVE SOME REPUBLICANS OF THE BURDEN OF HAVING TO DEAL WITH TRUMP PARTICULARLY CLOGGING UP TO PATH TO '22 AND '24.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

IF YOU WERE LOOKING AT ONE WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT KIND OF DOES FADE AWAY, IF THEY CONVICT HIM IN THE SENATE TRIAL, HE IS MORE THAN FADED AWAY.

HE IS ALMOST ERASED AT THE MOMENT.

IF HE CANNOT RUN AGAIN, THERE'S NOT MUCH HE CAN DO.

THAT SAID, HE DOES STILL HAVE THAT PACK THAT RAISED A TON OF MOEN UNDER THE GUISE OF THE, YOU KNOW, SUBVERTING THE ELECTION AND TRYING TO RAISE MONEY AND ALL THE LIES AND HELP US FIGHT BACK.

YOU KNOW, I'M ON THAT LIST AND I THINK I GOT A TEXT SIX, SEVEN TIMES A DAY ASKING FOR 25 DOLLARS NFOR ALL TRUE PATRIOTS R WHATEVER LANGUAGE THEY USED.

HE COULD STILL REMAIN RELEVANT WITH THAT.

BUT IF THEY DO CONVICT HIM IN THE SENATE TRIAL, THAT'S THE END OF TRUMP AND PROBABLY THE END OF THE TRUMP DYNASTY AS WELL.

KIND OF WHAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, IS YOU KNOW, AND I JUST RECENTLY DID A STORY WITH MY COLLEAGUE, ARE REED EPSTEIN, HOW A LOT OF THE REPUBLICAN HOUSE MEMBERS WHO WENT ALONG WITH THE EFFORTS TO SUBVERT THE ELECTION.

THEY SIGNED THE LAWSUIT FROM TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL PAXTON, THEY VOTED TO, OVERTURN THE VOTES ON JANUARY 6th AND MORNING OF THE 7th, THEIR FEARS OF GERRYMANDERING ARE NOT FROM THE MIDDLE OR DEMOCRATS, IT'S FROM THE PRIMARIES.

A LOT OF THEM ARE WORRIED ABOUT A PRIMARY FROM THE RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK THAT WE KNOW QUITE YET HOW THE PRIMARIES IN '22 WILL PLAY OUT.

AND WHETHER THEY HAVE TO FEAR MORE RIGHT WING LOYALISTS TO TRUMP TRYING TO CHALLENGE SOME OF THEM.

>> MICHAEL, WE TALKED TO FORMER GOVERNOR TOM KANE ABOUT THE GOP OF NEW JERSEY AND WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE OR WILL BE A TRUMP RECKONING.

HE DID NOT SEEM TO THINK SO.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

IS IT FULL SPEED AHEAD BEHIND JACK CHITTARELLI FOR GOVERNOR?

>> NO, I THINK JACK CH HAITTARE HAS A CLEAR PATH, AND I THINK HE IS A CAIN REPUBLICAN AT HEART.

HE COMES FROM THE SAME PART OF THE STATE, SOMERSET, COUNTY.

THE FACT THAT STEINHART, THE TRUMP LOYALIST COMPANIED OUT OF THE REST WAS A GIFT.

THERE'S TOKEN OPPOSITION IN THE PRIMARY BUT IT'S JUST TOKEN OPPOSITION.

IT'S PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO POLITICAL BASE AND NO NAME RECOGNITION.

I THINK THE GREAT THING FROM JACK CHITTARELLI'S POINT OF VIEW IS HE DOES NOT HAVE TO NAVIGATE THE TRUMP QUESTION QUITE AS DILIGENTLY AS HE TO OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

HE WAS ALL OVER THE LOT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE HE LREALLY WANTED TO STAND IN RELATION TO TRUMP AND NOW, TRUMP'S A KIND OF SIDE ISSUE OR AFTER THOUGHT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

CHARLIE PRESIDENT STEVE SWEENEY SAIDIF YOU THINK THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR WILL BE A RUN AWAY, YOU ARE CRAZY.

IS HE IRIGHT?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A RUN AWAY.

I THINK CHITTARELLI WILL BE OFFER A FIGHT, HE WILL FIGHT FROM THE CENTER.

HE WILL OFFER HIMSELF AS A PRAG MAT I MATIC CEO OPTION.

AND I THINK THE REAL ISSUE LOOMING OVER THE WHOLE RACE IS, AS IT DOES OVER THE NATIONS THE COVID CRISIS .

IF IT ABATES AND THE VACCINATION PROGRAM MOVES FORWARD OR ACCELERATES AND THE ECONOMY STARTS TO PERCOLATE, AND WE WILL NEVER GET RID OF IT BUT IT NO LONGER DOMINATES US.

YES, I THINK MURPHY IS IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT AND RUNS AWAY WITH IT.

IF IT DOESN'T AND THIS GETS BOBBED DOWN AND IT HANGS IN THERE STUBBORNLY, THERE'S THIS IS F-- THERE'S FODDER FOR CHITTARELLI.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT HOW HE GREETED THE NEWS OF BIDEN'S INAUGURAL THE OTHER DAY.

THE IT WAS LIKE, HE WAS SOUNDING AS IF HE WAS A MODERATE DEMOCRAT APPOINTEE, HE WAS BASICALLY LATCHING HIMSELF ON TO THE LEG OF JOE BIDEN.

HERE'S A GUY THAT HAD TO SURF THE CHOP OF TRUMP JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

NOW, HE IS, IT'S LIKE TRUMP IS IN THE REAR VIEW MFIRROR.

>> THE ELECTION SEASON HAS GUN.

THAT'S ALL THE "ROUND TABLE" WE HAVE THIS WEEK.

THANKS TO PROFESSOR BILL RODGERS AND OUR PANEL, CHARLIE, NICK, MICHAEL, GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

MAKE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CANCEL TO GET EXCLUSIVE CONTENT FROM CHATBOX AND YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AT TWITTER, AND REACH OUT.

WE ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

I'M DAVID CRUZ, FOR ALL THE CREW HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE WILL SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK.

MAJOR FUNDING FOR REPORTER'S ROUND TABLE WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY: NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJ REALTOR.COM.

RWJ BARNIBUS HEALTH, LET'S BE HEALTHY TOGETHER AND BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTION SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE.

THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.

REPORTING TO EXS ACTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

♪