OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> CATHY: IT'S BEEN A WINTRY WEEK.

PAUL DOUGLAS JOINS US WITH SNOW TOTALS AND MORE.

ST. PAUL MAYOR MELVIN CARTER IS HERE.

AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE WAR IN UKRAINE ON THE ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF RUSSIA'S INVASION.

PLUS MARY LAHAMMER HAS BEEN FOLLOWING BUSY NEW LAWMAKERS UP AT THE CAPITOL.

>> Mary: THE HOUSE AND NOW THE SENATE HAVE PASSED DRIVER'S LICENSE FOR ALL.

SEE HOW FRESHMEN ARE PLAYING A KEY ROLE IN THIS IMPORTANT BILL.

>> GO BIG OR GO HOME, YOU KNOW?

>> THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

"ONE GREATER MINNESOTA" REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY: THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES, AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY: THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION, WORKING TO STRENGTHEN RURAL MINNESOTA.

>> CATHY: WE'VE GOT A FULL SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT.

WE'LL SHARE A RARE JIMMY CARTER INTERVIEW FROM OUR ARCHIVES.

KAOMI LEE TRAVELS TO ST.

CLOUD TO LOOK AT THEIR CHANGING MEDIA LANDSCAPE.

AND POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS WILL GRACE THE COUCH.

>> ERIC: BUT WE START THE HOUR TONIGHT WITH THE BIGGEST STORY OF THE WEEK.

A WINTER STORM THAT HAD BUSINESSES, SCHOOLS, STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS CLOSING UP SHOP BEFORE THE BIG WINDS AND PREDICTED HEAVY SNOWFALL EVEN BEGAN.

WAS IT THE EPIC STORM METEROLOGISTS FORECAST?

OR MERELY ANOTHER BIG WINTER SNOWFALL IN MINNESOTA?

PAUL DOUGLAS JOINS US FOR HIS MONTHLY CHAT.

HE SHARES HIS WEATHER KNOWLEDGE IN THE "STAR TRIBUNE" AND ON WCCO RADIO.

[ Laughter ] PAUL HEADS UP HIS OWN WEATHER COMPANY, PREDICT-IX.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT HE'S JOINING US FROM A WARM WEATHER LOCATION WITH HEAVY HUMIDITY AND NO SNOW SHOVELS.

>> NO, NO, NO, NO.

>> Eric: YOU CALLED THE SNOWFALL LUMPY N THE PAPER.

OF WHAT DID THAT MEAN?

>> IT MEANT THAT IT WASN'T UNIFORM.

I THINK THERE'S THIS PERCEPTION, ERIC, THAT EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME AMOUNT OF SNOW.

EVEN OVER THE SPAN OF A COUPLE OF MILES, IT WAS CONVECTIVE.

MUCH LIKE WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN MARCH WHERE YOU GET POCKETS OF RAPIDLY RISING AIR THAT MIGHT AFFECT ONE AREA, A MILE DOWN THE ROAD YOU DON'T HAVE THE RAPIDLY RISING AIR.

AND, SO, IT'S A LITTLE LIKE SUMMER THUNDERSHOWERS.

SOME AREAS CAN GET SMACKED, A COUPLE OF INCHES OF RAIN.

YOU KNOW, TWO MILES DOWN THE ROAD, PEOPLE ARE SHRUGGING.

IT WASN'T QUITE THAT EXTREME.

BUT THERE WAS A BIG VARIATION.

AND, YES, IT'S GREAT TO BE JOINING YOU.

I HAVE BEEN MOVED TO AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION.

I'M SAFE FOR NOW.

IT'S BEEN A RAUCOUS 48 HOURS.

>> Cathy: IT HAS BEEN.

>> I WANT TO APOLOGIZE FOR EVERYBODY WHO WAS REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO 70 INCHES OF SNOW FROM THIS STORM.

>> Eric: YOU ENT TO SUCH TROUBLE TO GET THE SLIDES TOGETHER, WE BETTER GO TO THEM.

YOU'RE ON.

>> WE BETTER.

AND WE START WITH ERIC SNOW BLOWING EARLIER TODAY.

[ Laughter ] >> Cathy: RIGHT.

[ Laughter ] >> HOW MAGNANIMOUS AND YOUR NEIGHBORS WERE THRILLED.

I SAW THIS ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH I SHOULD HAVE AVOIDED AT THE HEIGHT OF THE STORM.

TO ME IT SUMMED THINGS UP MINNESOTANS.

WHEN THE SNOWSTORM MISSES THEM.

MINNESOTANS WHEN THE SNOWSTORM HITS THEM BUT DOESN'T GIVE THEM ENOUGH SNOW.

AND YOU MAY NOTICE THE SAME EXPRESSION WHEN MINNESOTANS, WHEN THE SNOWSTORM HITS THEM BUT GIVES THEM TOO MUCH SNOW.

IT'S HARD GETTING IT JUST RIGHT.

I FEEL SAFEST RIGHT NOW WHEN I'M IN APPLE VALLEY WHERE THEY DID, IN FACT, GET 20 INCHES OF SNOW.

LET'S SEE.

UP TOWARDS -- OH, BOY.

ANOKA, 17 INCHES OF SNOW.

ABOUT 16 IN CHAN CHANHASSEN AND 13.4, OFFICIALLY, AT THE AIRPORT, WHERE ALL THINGS OFFICIAL TAKE PLACE.

AND ANY OTHER YEAR, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE IGGEST SNOWSTORMS OF THE ENTIRE WINTER.

AND IT MAY STILL VERY WELL BE.

SECOND BIGGEST FEBRUARY SNOWFALL FOR THE METRO ON RECORD.

ACCORDING TO NOAA DATA.

AND IF YOU'RE KEEPING SCORE, NO, IT WASN'T THE TOP FIVE OR A TOP THREE, IT WAS THE 23rd BIGGEST SNOWSTORM SINCE 1884.

AND 17th SNOWIEST WINTER TO DATE.

WE'RE UP TO 1 INCHES, ON OUR WAY TO MAYBE 85 OR 90 AT THE RATE WE'RE GOING.

WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT CAN HAPPEN IN MARCH.

KENNY LUMENFELD, Dr. KENNY BLUMEN FELT TOLD ME HE BELIEVES 25 TO 30,000 SQUARE MILES OF CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN MINNESOTA DID, IN FACT, GET A FOOT OR MORE OF SNOW.

AND TRAVEL WAS REALLY ROUGH.

I MEAN, ROADS WERE SHUT DOWN OVER MUCH OF CENTRAL AND SOUTHWESTERN MINNESOTA.

AT THE HEIGHT OF THE STORM, WINDS GUSTED UP TO 40.

70.7 IN THE TWIN CITIES.

LESS IN St.

CLOUD.

92 IN DULUTH.

LOOK AT THESE DEPARTURES.

33 INCHES ABOVE AVERAGE TO DATE IN THE TWIN CITIES.

PRETTY INCREDIBLE.

MUCH OF THE STATE SNOWIER THAN AVERAGE THIS WINTER.

DULUTH, AS OF YESTERDAY, HAS PICKED UP AN ENTIRE NORMAL WINTER'S WORTH OF SNOW.

THEY'RE UP TO 92.1.

NORMAL FOR THE WHOLE WINTER AT DULUTH IS 90.2.

SO, COUPLE OF HIGHLIGHTS.

THE WINTER TO DATE, 12 SUBZERO NIGHTS SO FAR DURING A TYPICAL WINTER, THE WHOLE WINTER, NOW WE GET 20, BASED ON HEATING DEGREE DAYS, WE'VE SAVED 4% HEATING OUR HOMES AND BUSINESSES.

AGAIN, 33 INCHES SNOWIER THAN AVERAGE OF THIS DATE.

AND WE'RE STILL IN MODERATE DROUGHT.

BUT THERE'S TWO TO SIX INCHES OF LIQUID WATER TRAPPED IN THAT SNOW COVER, ACCORDING TO NOAA.

AND, AGAIN, IF IT'S RELEASED SLOWLY, IF WE GET A GRADUAL MELTDOWN IN MARCH AND APRIL, A MUCH BETTER CHANCE, THAT BODES WELL FOR SOIL MOISTURE AND GETTING WATER BACK IN OUR LAKES.

MONDAY WE COULD HAVE SOME ICY PROBLEMS.

THE GOOD NEWS, NO POLAR AIR BEHIND THIS THING.

TODAY WAS CHILLY.

ADMITTEDLY.

BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT A LOT OF 30s AS WE SAIL INTO MARCH.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY, CATHY AND ERIC, I PREDICTED 12 O 20.

AND THE MISTAKE I MADE, AND IT WAS A BIG ONE, I SHOWED SOME OF THE MODEL OUTPUT, THE RAW MODEL OUTPUT.

THAT SHOWED 25 INCHES, 27-INCH BULL'S EYE OVER THE TWIN CITIES.

AND ALL THE MODELS WERE PRETTY MUCH SAYING THAT.

AND ONCE YOU SEE IT, YOU CAN'T UNSEE IT.

SO EVEN THOUGH I'M SAYING, 12 TO 20 AND TRYING TO BE A LITTLE MORE CONSERVATIVE, PEOPLE REMEMBER, OH, MY GOSH, HE SHOWED IT, ON TWITTER, HE MUST BELIEVE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO, THAT WAS A BIG GOOF ON MY PART.

>> Eric: ALL RIGHT, JIMMY BUFFETT, JR., WE GOT TO RUN.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> Cathy: DON'T GET SUNBURNED.

>> HAVE A GOOD ONE.

>> Eric: SEE YOU LATER.

>> Cathy: SEE YOU LATER.

♪♪ >> CATHY: THE HOUSE AND SENATE WERE AMONG THE ENTITIES THAT SHUT DOWN BEFORE THE BIG STORM HIT.

BUT LAWMAKERS WERE PLENTY BUSY BEFORE THEY HEADED HOME TO HUNKER DOWN.

MARY LAHAMMER HAS MORE ON A LEADING NEW LAWMAKER WITH A KNACK FOR STANDING OUT.

>> Mary: AT THE CENTER OF THE DRIVER'S LICENSE FOR ALL CELEBRATION IS MARIA ISA PÉREZ-VEGA.

YOU HAD A WHOLE LIFE BEFORE THIS PLACE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Mary: TELL US WHAT YOUR LIFE WAS.

>> I'M A RAP ARTIST, HIP-HOP PERFORMING ARTIST, YOUTH WORKER THAT WORKS IN COMMUNITY ORGANIZING AND ACTIVISM.

AND MY ART HAS BEEN MY ACTIVISM AND IT'S WHAT LED ME TO THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.

>> Mary: YOU WOULDN'T KNOW IT BY ALL OF HER FANS AND FOLLOWING AND LIST OF LEGISLATIVE ACCOMPLISHMENTS, SHE'S ALREADY HEAD OF THE -- HAD AT THE CAPITOL BUT PÉREZ-VEGA IS NOW A LAWMAKER.

HAVE YOU BEEN TOLD YOU'RE REDEFINING WHAT A FRESHMAN LAWMAKER IS AND DOES?

>> I'VE HAD A FEW PEOPLE SINGING THAT SONG TO ME IN THE LAST MONTH.

>> Mary: FIRST SHE WAS CO-AUTHOR ON HE DRIVER'S LICENSE BILL IN THE HOUSE.

>> THE BILL IS PASSED AND ITS TITLE IS AGREED TO.

[ Cheers ] >> JUST FELT THE MOMENTUM OF TWO DECADES OF OUR IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY FIGHTING FOR A HUMAN RIGHT AND FOR OUR COMMUNITY FIGHTING FOR PUBLIC SAFETY ON OUR ROADS.

AND THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND THE JOY THAT CAME FROM THAT CROWD, MANY OF THEM WHO HAVE BEEN MY COMMUNITY AND MY MUSIC AND IN OUR LATINA, EAST ASIAN, AFRICAN IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY, THE IMPACT SHOWED WHY I'M IN THIS SEAT, IT'S LOVING AND IT'S MOVEMENT.

>> Mary: THEN THE SENATE PASSED THE LONG-AWAITED BILL, SENDING IT TO THE GOVERNOR FOR HIS SIGNATURE, DESPITE REPUBLICAN OPPOSITION.

>> WE UNDERSTAND THE PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE.

WE UNDERSTAND WE NEED TO GET OUR WORKERS TO OUR JOBS.

WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE CAN ALL GET ON BOARD WITH THAT.

WE KNOW THERE ARE SO MANY HARDWORKING PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE ILLEGALLY AND LEGALLY THAT DO DO A LOT OF JOBS.

BUT THIS BILL IS NOT THAT BILL.

>> 19 OF HOSE TERRORISTS THAT FLEW THOSE PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HAD 30 DIFFERENT STATE DRIVER'S LICENSES AND STATE .D.s, AND WHEN THEY CAME OUT WITH THAT REPORT, THAT'S WHY THE STATE OF MINNESOTA REACTED.

>> YOU RECOGNIZE THE CONFLICTS WHEN YOU SEE WHO'S REPRESENTING WORTHINGTON, WHEN YOU SEE WHO'S REPRESENTING WILLMAR, ALL OF THESE RURAL AND AGRICULTURAL TOWNS THAT ARE FILLED WITH IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILDING THEM FOR OVER TWO DECADES, THAT THEY DESERVE TO HAVE THAT VOICE AS WELL.

>> JUST OUTSIDE THIS CHAMBER THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF IMMIGRANTS WHOSE LIVES WILL BE COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED BY THIS BILL.

THEY'LL BE ABLE TO DRIVE TO WORK.

THEY'LL BE ABLE TO TAKE THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL.

AND THEY'LL BE ABLE TO LIVE THEIR LIVES WITH DIGNITY.

>> IT'S ANOTHER FRESHMAN IN THE SENATE WHO'S CARRYING THIS BILL.

>> RIGHT.

>> Mary: WHAT'S IN THE WATER WITH THE FRESHMEN?

>> WE LIKE TO CALL IT THE TRIFECTA CLASS.

AND IT'S TIME TO BE ABLE TO GIVE FOLKS ACCESSIBILITY TO SAY THAT WE LOVE THIS STATE, THIS STATE HAS BEEN GOOD FOR US IN MANY WAYS, AND IN CERTAIN WAYS THERE'S BEEN INJUSTICES, AND WE'RE HERE O MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE VOCALIZING AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THOSE DISPARITIES FOR ALL MINNESOTANS.

>> Mary: SO THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THE REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ON "ALMANAC."

MARIA ISA, THE RAPPER, PERFORMED ON THE SHOW YEARS AGO.

OUR NEXT GUEST AS BRAINS, BEAUTY AND THE GUTH TO SING AND RAP -- GUTS TO SING AND RAP ABOUT POLITICS.

♪ THEY TRYIN' TO STOP ME MARCHIN' ♪ >> Mary: SHE DROPPED A NEW RAP ALBUM THE DAY SHE WAS SWORN INTO OFFICE.

♪ PUERTO RICO ♪ >> I WAS IN MY MOTHER'S WOMB WHEN SHE WAS THE FIRST LATINA APPOINTED AS THE DIRECTOR FOR THE OFFICE OF EQUAL OPPORTUNITY WITH RUDY PERPICH.

>> Mary: PÉREZ-VEGA, WHO'S COUNTED IN THE HISTORIC NEW GLASS OF LGBTQ LAWMAKERS, ALSO SUPPORTED A BIPARTISAN BILL BANNING CONVERSION THERAPY.

>> ESPECIALLY FOR US WHO ARE A PART OF THIS QUEER CAUCUS MAKING HISTORY FROM THE HOUSE TO THE SENATE.

>> Mary: ISA IS PART OF A RECORD AMOUNT OF DIVERSITY AT THE CAPITOL.

>> THE IMPORTANCE OF CARING ABOUT OUR CHILDREN IS WHAT WE'RE CARRYING ON OUR BACKS AND SPEAKING IT HROUGH.

>> ary: AS A TOP-SCORING POINT GUARD ON THE COURT, SHE'S NOT AFRAID TO LEAD IN OFFENSE.

>> GO BIG OR GO HOME, YOU KNOW.

SO WE WANT THE GOLD.

WE WANT THE GOLD.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO PUSH AS MUCH GOOD LEGISLATION THIS YEAR.

>> ERIC: THE CITY OF ST. PAUL HAS HAD A TOUGH START TO THIS YEAR.

VIOLENCE HAS TAKEN THE LIFE OF A TEENAGER AND LEFT ANOTHER CRITICALLY INJURED - IN SPACES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SAFE - A HIGH SCHOOL AND A CITY REC CENTER.

ADD IN THE CHALLENGES OF NOT ONE BUT TWO BIG SNOWFALLS TO CLEAN UP IN THE CITY, ONGOING HOUSING ISSUES AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION BATTLES.

ST. PAUL MAYOR MELVIN CARTER IS HERE WITH MORE.

MAYOR, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

WHAT'S IN THE WORKS FOR SECURITY AT HE REC CENTERS AND AT THE HIGH SCHOOLS FOLLOWING THESE INCIDENTS THIS YEAR?

>> HEY, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

I REALLY ENJOYED THAT LAST SEGMENT.

IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO BE HERE WITH YOU.

WE'RE WORKING REALLY HARD AROUND OUR PUBLIC SAFETY STRATEGIES, AS YOU KNOW, WHILE OUR GOAL HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO FIELD THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE, MOST COORDINATED AND MOST DATA-DRIVEN APPROACH TO PUBLIC SAFETY EVER, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK WE'VE DONE NOW IS REALLY STARTED TO SAY, LET'S LOOK AT THE WAY WE KEEP OUR PUBLIC -- OUR SCHOOLS AND OUR RECREATION CENTERS IN THE SAME WAY AS WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THE WAY WE KEEP OUR COMMUNITIES SAFE.

AND THAT'S THROUGH LARGE COORDINATION -- LARGE COORDINATED EFFORTS THAT INCLUDE LAW ENFORCEMENT, THAT INCLUDE THE FOLKS WHO WORK WITH OUR KIDS ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, THE TEACHERS AND THE REC LEADERS, AND THAT ENSURES THAT ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT PEOPLE ARE IN COMMUNICATION WITH ONE ANOTHER SO THAT WE CAN CREATE A SUPPORT SYSTEM AROUND OUR YOUNG PEOPLE THAT'S GREATER THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS.

>> Cathy: THERE'S A SCHOOL BOARD LISTENING SESSION NEXT WEEK ABOUT SAFETY NOT ONLY AT HARDING HIGH, BUT, OF COURSE, ACROSS ALL ST. PAUL PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

I KNOW YOU DON'T CONTROL THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE THE MAYOR OF THE CITY OF St. PAUL.

THE TEACHERS SAY THAT THE VIOLENCE THAT'S OCCURRING IN THESE SCHOOLS DOESN'T OCCUR IN A VACUUM.

IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE, THEY'VE JUST NOT BEEN LISTENED TO.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Cathy: SO, HOW SAFE ARE St. PAUL SCHOOLS?

I MEAN, I KNOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT COORDINATION HERE.

BUT WHAT'S THAT GOING TO LOOK LIKE?

>> I DO THINK St. PAUL SCHOOLS ARE FUNDAMENTALLY SAFE.

WHEN WE RESPOND WITH SHOCK AND HORROR WHEN AN INCIDENT LIKE THAT HAPPENS, THE REASON WE'RE SO SHOCKED IS BECAUSE WE'RE SO USED TO PEOPLE, OUR CHILDREN BEING SAFE, OUR CHILDREN LEARNING, OUR CHILDREN JOINING A ROBOTICS TEAM, OUR CHILDREN BEING NATIONAL MERIT SCHOLARS, AND THAT'S THE NORM OF WHAT WE'RE USED TO IN OUR St. PAUL PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE HAD, FRANKLY, SAME AS MANY OF OUR SUBURBAN DISTRICTS HAVE HAD AND DISTRICTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, SOME OF THOSE UNUSUAL EVENTS, AND HEN THOSE OCCUR, WE SHOULD USE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM AS A LEARNING OPPORTUNITY TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE GET BETTER TO PREVENT SOME OF THOSE THINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I'VE SAID TO YOU MANY TIMES, PUBLIC SAFETY CAN'T JUST BE ABOUT WHAT WE DO AFTER SOMETHING TERRIBLE HAPPENS.

IT HAS TO BE ABOUT HOW WE MAKE THOSE INTERVENTIONS, THOSE PROACTIVE INVESTMENTS TO HELP REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT SOMETHING TERRIBLE WILL HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

AND THAT'S WHERE BUILDING THIS COMMUNITY FIRST PUBLIC SAFETY FRAMEWORK THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE REALLY IS IMPORTANT.

IT'S NOT JUST HAVING THE BODIES ON THE GROUND.

IT'S MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE ALL COMMUNICATING WITH ONE ANOTHER TO BE ABLE TO BE SUPPORTIVE AND, FRANKLY, I'LL TELL YOU ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FUNDAMENTALLY BELIEVE IS, OUR CHILDREN FOUGHT EACH OTHER WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, OUR CHILDREN FOUGHT EACH OTHER WHEN MY FATHER WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, RIGHT NOW WE'VE DECIDED AS A COUNTRY, WE'VE DECIDED AS A STATE, I THINK, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENT DECISION SOON, TO HAVE A COMMUNITY WHERE IT'S EASY FOR OUR YOUNG FOLKS AND PEOPLE OF ALL AGES, FOR THE WRONG FOLKS TO GET THEIR HANDS ON A GUN.

IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I'M SO GRATEFUL THAT OUR LEGISLATURE IS TAKING ON GUN SAFETY AND GUN VIOLENCE REDUCTION AS A PART OF THIS YEAR'S LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> Eric: LET'S TURN IT ANOTHER ISSUE.

SNOW EMPLOYING, ALTERNATIVE PARKING.

WERE YOU SATISFIED WITH HOW IT WENT AND HOW IT'S GOING?

>> LISTEN, I'VE BEEN VERY PLEASED WITH OUR CITY'S RESPONSE TO SNOWPLOWING THIS WEEK.

WE'VE BEEN REHEARSING THE NOTION OF BEING AN ENTERPRISE, OF TAKING 12 -- TAKING A DOZEN CITY DEPARTMENTS AND TURNING IT INTO ONE BIG ENTERPRISE.

I WAS REALLY EXCITED TO SEE OUR CITY'S PLANNING AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO OWNS A SERIES OF OUR DOWNTOWN PARKING RAMPS, CHIP IN AND SAY, HEY, WE HAVE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN MOVE OUR CARS, SPENT A LOT OF TIME AT MIDNIGHT DRIVING AROUND THE CITY, AND PEOPLE REALLY TOOK THAT UP AND GOT THEIR CARS OFF THE NIGHT PLOW ROUTES.

IT GAVE OUR DRIVERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE THE SNOW.

THAT'S OUR DEAL.

YOU MOVE YOUR CARS, WE CAN MOVE THE SNOW.

AND WE SAW THAT IN EFFECT THIS WEEK.

OUR TEAMS WERE WORKING HARD THIS WEEK.

THEY WERE WORKING OVERTIME AND DOUBLE TIME.

THEY WERE TESTING A LOT F NEW APPROACHES TO SNOW.

AND I THINK WE'LL FIND WE'VE LEARNED A LOT FROM THIS SNOWFALL THAT WILL GIVE US OPPORTUNITIES TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT, CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT THAT WE NEED.

>> Cathy: LET'S TALK ABOUT OLD BUILDINGS, St. PAUL HISTORY.

I KNOW YOU WERE NOT A BIG FAN OF THE JUSTICE RAMSEY HOUSE, YOU THOUGHT IT SHOULD BE DEMOLISHED, YOU ALSO GOT KIND OF -- YOU DIDN'T SIGN OFF ON THE MIDWAY IBRARY RENOVATION, SEEMS LIKE HAT'S GOING DOWN TO DEMOLITION, TOO.

TELL ME ABOUT YOUR -- JUST YOUR PHILOSOPHY ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN IT?

>> SURE.

WELL, LISTEN, IT'S NOT THAT I'M NOT A FAN OF THE BUILDING.

IT'S THAT THE BUILDING HAS EXCEEDED ITS USEFUL LIFE AND THAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS THAT WE TALKED TO TOLD US WE HAVE A -- IT'S A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE BUILDING STARTED COMING DOWN ON ITS OWN.

SO IT'S NOT THAT I'M NOT A FAN OF THE BUILDING.

IT'S THAT I'M A FAN OF PUBLIC SAFETY, I'M NOT A FAN OF BRICKS FALLING OFF BUILDINGS.

I'M NOT A FAN OF HAVING STRUCTURES CRAPS -- CRAPS IN OUR COMMUNITY.

SO, WE HAVE FOLKS WHO WOULD PREFER A SCENARIO HAPPEN OR NOT HAPPEN.

OF COLLAPSE.

AREN'T NECESSARILY BRINGING RESOURCES TO THE TABLE.

AREN'T NECESSARILY BRINGING AN ALTERNATIVE PLAN TO THE TABLE.

ONE OF THE THINGS AS MAYOR, WHEN THERE'S NO IDEAL SITUATION, WHEN THERE'S NO IDEAL ROAD, YOU STILL HAVE TO PICK A ROAD.

AND, SO, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THAT I WASN'T A FAN OF IT.

IT'S AN INCREDIBLE PLACE THAT HAS A LOT OF HISTORY OF IT.

IT'S ALSO THAT WE HAVE TO KNOW THAT WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

WHERE THE HAMLINE MIDWAY LIBRARY IS CONCERNED, WE HAVE A WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD WHOSE WRAPPED THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS AROUND THIS OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A BRAND-NEW STATE-OF-THE-ART, AMAZING PUBLIC LIBRARY RIGHT THERE THAT'S ACCESSIBLE TO ALL OF OUR CHILDREN.

THAT'S NOT WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

AND WE EVALUATED THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO ENOVATE THE EXISTING BUILDING, THE FOOTPRINT DOESN'T MAKE IT SUCH THAT IT'S EASY TO RENOVATE FOR ACCESSIBILITY, FOR SAFETY, FOR KIND OF EASE OF USE.

AND, SO, WE MADE THE DECISION THAT IN THIS CASE, AGAIN, WITH A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, WE MADE THE DECISION THAT THIS COMMUNITY GETS A BRAND-NEW PUBLIC LIBRARY AND WE'RE EXCITED TO DELIVER IT FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Eric: IF THE LEGISLATURE AND THE VOTERS APPROVE, YOU'D GET A 1% SALES TAX HIKE.

WHAT WOULD THAT MONEY GO FOR?

>> OUR STREETS.

THREE-QUARTERS OF IT WOULD BE FOR STREETS, ONE-QUARTER OF IT WOULD BE FOR OUR PARKS.

WE SAW JUST THIS WEEK HOW CRITICAL OUR STREET NETWORK IS.

WE GOT A MASSIVE SNOWFALL, TOOK IT FROM US FOR A MATTER OF HOURS, UNTIL OUR FOLKS DID SUCH A GREAT JOB PLOWING US OUT.

BUT THAT STOPS SCHOOLS, THAT STOPS ECONOMIC ACTIVITY, THAT STOPS US FROM GOING OUT FOR A DRINK, THAT STOPS WORK, THAT STOPS ALL -- EVERYTHING, ALL OF OUR GOALS FOR OUR CITY.

WE HAVE TO HAVE A STATE-OF-THE-ART, RELIABLE INFRASTRUCTURE NETWORK IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Eric: ALL RIGHT.

>> WE KNOW, I'M A St. PAULITE, SO WE KNOW, OUR BIRTHRIGHT IS COMPLAINING ABOUT OUR STREETS.

THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO MAKE THE TYPES OF CRITICAL INVESTMENTS THAT CAN GET -- PASS OUR CHILDREN THE STREETS WE KNOW OUR CITY DESERVES.

>> Eric: THANKS VERY MUCH.

WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK, MORE DISCUSSION TO COME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WHAT A ROLLER COASTER OF A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

EVERY DAY WE'RE FACING OFF AGAINST THESE GLOBAL CHALLENGES.

ESSENTIALLY CHOOSING BETWEEN ENDLESS POTENTIAL AND SELF-DESTRUCTION.

AS THEY USED TO SAY IN THE '70s, THAT'S HEAVY, MAN.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT ISN'T HEAVY?

US.

HUMANS.

OUR BODIES.

EVEN NOW IN ALL OUR TERRIBLE GLORY, WE'RE STILL JUST A TINY FRACTION OF THE LIVING WEIGHT ON PLANET EARTH.

TREES WEIGH THE MOST.

BY A LOT.

BECAUSE THEY'RE UGE AND THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.

BUT WE'RE ALSO BEAT OUT BY SMALLER THING, LIKE WORMS.

WORMS OUTWEIGH PEOPLE THREE TO ONE.

EVEN THE SIMPLE SINGLE-CELL BACTERIA LIVING IN THE SOIL, THEY WEIGH 1,000 TIMES MORE THAN ALL HUMANS PUT TOGETHER.

AND NOT TO WORRY, I DIDN'T CALCULATE THESE NUMBERS MYSELF.

I READ ALL THIS IN THE JANUARY ISSUE OF "SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN."

AND I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT IT.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T STOP.

TAKE OUR BODIES.

THE THINGS IN WHICH WE LIVE, THOSE ARE ONLY 43% US.

THE REST, 57%, IS FRIENDLY GERMS.

HOW IS IT OSSIBLE THAT LESS THAN .01% OF THE DNA ON THIS PLANET HAS MANAGED TO WRAP ITS FINGERS AROUND EVERYTHING ELSE?

IT'S LIKE ONE SINGLE ANT TOOK CONTROL OF ALL CENTRAL PARK.

THAT'S SOME POWERFUL HUMAN GOO, WHICH MEANS, I SUPPOSE, ALL THESE EXISTENTIAL QUESTIONS WE'RE FACING, THEY'RE NOT TECHNICALLY HEAVY.

THEY JUST FEEL THAT WAY.

♪♪ >> CATHY: ONE YEAR AGO TODAY RUSSIA INVADED NEIGHBORING UKRAINE.

MANY AROUND THE WORLD THOUGHT PRESIDENT PUTIN'S ARMY WOULD CELEBRATE A SWIFT VICTORY IN HIS QUEST TO RECLAIM A NATION THAT WAS PART OF THE FORMER SOVIET UNION.

INSTEAD, UKRAINE FOUGHT BACK AND CONTINUES TO DO SO.

EARLIER THIS WEEK PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN MADE A SECRET JOURNEY TO THE WAR ZONE IN KYIV TO SHOW U.S. SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE IN THE ONGOING WAR TO KEEP ITS INDEPENDENCE.

DAVID SCHULTZ IS HERE, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY WHO HAS SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME TEACHING IN EASTERN EUROPE, INCLUDING UKRAINE.

JOINING US FROM KYIV IS DAVID'S COLLEAGUE ALEX KOMARENKO, A HISTORY PROFESSOR AT TARAS SHEVCENKO NATIONAL UNIVERSITY IN KYIV.

SCHULTZ AND KOMARENKO HAVE COLLABORATED ON PAPERS AND GUEST LECTURED IN EACH OTHER'S CLASSES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

SAY, BEFORE WE THROW IT TO YOUR COLLEAGUE IN KYIV, THE PRESIDENT'S SURPRISE VISITS, WHAT WERE YOUR KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THAT?

>> A COUPLE THINGS.

IT HAD A COUPLE DIFFERENT AUDIENCES, AUDIENCE ONE, TO VLADIMIR PUTIN, WE'RE HERE, WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE, WE SUPPORT UKRAINE.

AUDIENCE NUMBER TWO, THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE OF HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, TO MAKE SURE THAT HE CAN SHORE UP SUPPORT.

SYMBOLICALLY VERY IMPORTANT MOVE.

I WOULD ALSO SAY WHAT MAKES IT INTERESTING, IS THE FACT, IT'S WHAT, IT'S NOW RECOGNITION THAT, WHAT, WE ARE AN ALLY F UKRAINE AND VICE VERSA.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR, HOW CAN YOU SUM UP THE SITUATION A YEAR INTO THE WAR?

WHAT IS LIFE LIKE IN UKRAINE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, GREETINGS TO ALL OF YOUR AUDIENCE AND TO YOU PERSONALLY, COLLEAGUES AND FRIENDS.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

>> WELL, DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAS HAPPENED, WORLD ORDER JUST TOOK SHAPE ON THE PLANET AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR EXACTLY ONE YEAR AGO WAS DESTROYED.

AND NATURALLY THIS HAS CHANGED THE LIVES OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, ECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE NOT UNDER SHELLING R IN THE BACK WITHOUT LIGHT, AS WE ARE IN UKRAINE, THEN I GUESS EVEN IN THE U.S., YOUR PRICES ARE RISING, WHILE YOUR INCOMES ARE FALLING.

DEFINITELY HOW LIFE HAS CHANGED OVER THIS YEAR IN UKRAINE.

I THINK IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE, OBVIOUSLY NOT FOR THE BETTER.

ALSO THE DEGREE OF THIS, LET ME BE HONEST, IN OUR COUNTRY, I WAS IN KYIV ALL THIS TIME, UNTIL THE END OF MARCH, THERE WAS A THREAT OF OCCUPATION.

THEN THE RUSSIANS RETREATED.

UNTIL OCTOBER, IT WAS A RELATIVELY NOT BAD.

ALSO AIR RAIDS WERE FREQUENT.

AND THE CITY WAS PERIODICALLY SHELLED.

BUT THEN MASS ATTACKS ON THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE OF OUR COUNTRY STARTED.

THERE WERE EITHER 14 OR 15 OF THEM.

THIS LED TO MASSIVE POWER OUTAGES AND, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, HEATING, WATER SUPPLY, ELECTRICITY, TO SAY NOTHING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT WAS MORE THAN HALF OF KYIV SPENT NOT ON GAS BUT ON ELECTRIC STOVES.

AND THAT WAS OUR LIFE DURING THE WAR.

DEFINITELY KYIV IS NOT SO -- BUT ALL OF YOU REMEMBER MARIO -- WHEN EVERYONE'S HOMES WERE BOMBED OR COMPLETELY DESTROYED.

AND PEOPLE LIVING IN BASEMENTS FOR MONTHS WITHOUT ANY AMENITIES.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR -- [ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> Eric: ALEX, I DON'T -- >> DRINKING WATER FROM BOTTLES.

>> Eric: ALEX, HI.

HIP RIPPLE EFFECT -- RIPPLE EFFECTS OF THE WAR, THINGS LIKE FOOD, ENERGY, INFLATION?

>> YEAH, CLEARLY WHAT WE'RE STARTING TO SEE IS BECAUSE OF THE EMBARGO OF THE WAR, RUSSIAN GAS, OIL CAN'T GET OUT.

AND PART OF THE INFLATION WE'RE FACING IN THE UNITED STATES IS A RESULT OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

>> Cathy: PROFESSOR, I'M CURIOUS, HOW DO YOU THINK THIS ENDS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, FIRST OF ALL, DEFINITELY ALL OF US UKRAINES, WE REALLY REALLY WANT TO WIN.

BUT DEFINITELY THIS IS NOT A SIMPLE QUESTION.

WHAT IS UNDERSTOOD BY VICTORY?

WELL, THIS IS UKRAINE, WITHIN THE BORDERS OF 1991, INCLUDING CRIMEA PENINSULA.

NATURALLY, I ALSO REALLY WANT THIS, BUT THE REALITY IS A BIG QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, WARS ALSO END IN NEGOTIATIONS SOONER OR LATER.

AND NEGOTIATIONS INVOLVE WORK, INVOLVE COMPROMISE.

AND WHAT IS A COMPROMISE?

THEY WILL MAKE SOME CONCESSIONS TO YOU, BUT IN RESPONSE, YOU ARE TO MAKE SOME CONCESSIONS TO THEM.

>> Eric: LET ME -- >> UKRAINE IS NOT READY TO CONCEDE ANYTHING.

BUT, YOU KNOW, LET'S SEE.

LET'S SEE.

>> Eric: OKAY.

YOU ARE AN EXPERT IN RUSSIAN HISTORY.

I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK THE END GAME IS FOR r. PUTIN?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW THE REALITY IS THAT DESPITE ALL OF THE HATE OF UKRANIANS, PUTIN WAS AND STILL IS INCUMBENT PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA.

SO, NEVERTHELESS, IT'S -- YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE BUT FOR NOW TO DEAL WITH THEM.

CONCERNING THE END OF THIS WAR.

THE POINT OF UKRAINE IS THAT DEFINITELY THIS IS TO BE DONE ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY WE INDEED SUPPORT, WE ARE INDEED VERY VERY GRATEFUL TO THE ASSISTANCE OF THE UNITED STATES AND NATO.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING, PROFESSOR SCHULTZ, CHINA WANTS TO MEDIATE A SETTLEMENT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

>> YEAH, CHINA'S TRYING TO BECOME SORT OF THE BROKER FOR A SETTLEMENT.

THIS IS PART OF CHINA'S, I THINK, EFFORTS TO EXTEND ITS INFLUENCE ACROSS THE WORLD.

AND GIVEN THE FACT THAT RUSSIA'S INCREASINGLY GOING TO BE PERHAPS DEPENDENT UPON CHINA FOR MARKETS AND PERHAPS FOR ARMAMENTS, I THINK CHINA PERCEIVES THIS AS A REALLY INTERESTING WAY OF EXTENDING ITS INFLUENCE OVER INTO EUROPE.

SO, THIS, I THINK, IS ONE OF THE MORE INTERESTING STORIES.

DOES CHINA GET TO BE THE PEACE BROKER HERE IN EUROPE?

AND EXTEND ITS INFLUENCE INTO EUROPE.

>> Cathy: I ASKED YOUR COLLEAGUE HOW THIS MIGHT END.

HOW DO YOU THINK IT ENDS?

>> I THINK WHAT HAPPENS, WE HAVE A STALEMATE FOR SEVERAL MORE MONTHS IN THE WAR.

AND THEN AT SOME POINT, PERHAPS LATER THIS YEAR, THE TWO SIDES GET EQUALLY EXHAUSTED AND THEY START TO FIND A PLACE TO NEGOTIATE.

BUT WE ARE STILL A LONG WAY AWAY FROM THAT AT THIS POINT.

I DON'T SEE ANYTHING HAPPENING FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.

>> Eric: ALEX, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR STAYING UP LATE IN KYIV.

BEST OF LUCK TO YOU, PROFESSOR.

PROFESSOR SCHULTZ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> DOMINIC: SOMETIMES, WHEN YOU'’RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A THING, IT'’S HARD TO GET THE DISTANCE TO SEE IT CLEARLY.

LUCKY FOR YOU, YOU HAVE ME TO EXPLAIN THE FOUR STAGES OF A MINNESOTA SNOWSTORM.

FIRST, THERE'’S THE PRELUDE.

THIS IS WHEN METEOROLOGISTS, SCHOOL OFFICIALS AND GUYS WITH BAD KNEES GIVE US THE HEADS-UP THAT A STORM IS A-BREWIN'’.

THE PRELUDE TENDS TO BE RELATIVELY DRAMATIC IN DESCRIBING THE COMING SNOWFALL, EMPLOYING ADJECTIVES SUCH AS "“SIGNIFICANT,"” "“HISTORIC"” OR -— MY FAVORITE -— "“LIFE-THREATENING."”.

SO IT'’S NO SURPRISE THAT THIS INEVITABLY LEADS TO STAGE TWO, THE PANIC.

THIS IS WHEN SHOVELS AND SNOWBLOWERS FLY OFF THE SHELVES.

AS IF WE'’VE BEEN USING -— WHAT, FLAMETHROWERS?

- UP TO THIS POINT IN THE WINTER.

LINES AT GAS STATIONS AND GROCERY STORES STRETCH TOWARD THE HORIZON.

WHEN MY LOCAL LIQUOR STORE CLOSED EARLY ON WEDNESDAY, I KNEW THE PANIC WAS IN FULL BLOOM.

ONCE WE'’RE ALL PROVISIONED UP COMES STAGE THREE, THE HUNKER.

IN THIS STAGE, MINNESOTANS BORN AFTER OCTOBER 31, 1991, SETTLE IN WITH A BLANKET, MAYBE A POT OF CHILI AND A NETFLIX SERIES THEY'’VE BEEN SAVING FOR JUST SUCH AN OCCASION.

MINNESOTANS BORN BEFORE 1991 LOOK OUT THE WINDOW AND GO "“THIS IS NOTHING.

"” AND IT'’S GENERALLY THOSE OLDER MINNESOTANS WHO LEAD US INTO STAGE FOUR OF A MINNESOTA SNOWSTORM, THE RECRIMINATIONS.

THIS IS WHEN THOSE AFOREMENTIONED METEOROLOGISTS, SCHOOL OFFICIALS AND GUYS WITH BAD KNEES COME IN FOR ALL SORTS OF CRITICISM FOR EITHER (A) VASTLY OVERBLOWING THE SEVERITY OF THE STORM OR (B) NOT DOING ENOUGH TO PREPARE US FOR THE LIFE-THREATENING WEATHER CONDITIONS.

SHOVELING?

OH, YEAH, I GUESS THAT'’S STEP FIVE.

>> Cathy: NICE.

[ Applause ] >> ERIC: IT'S NO SECRET THAT SOME LOCAL DAILY NEWSPAPERS AROUND THE STATE HAVE FACED CHALLENGES.

THIS MONTH, THE LAST FULL-TIME REPORTER FOR THE "ST.

CLOUD TIMES" LEFT THE PAPER.

BESIDES SHEDDING STAFF, AREA NEWS WATCHERS SAY OVERALL LOCAL COVERAGE HAS DIMINISHED.

REPORTER KAOMI LEE WENT TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT HOW THE LANDSCAPE IS CHANGING.

>> NEWSPAPERS TRADITIONALLY PRINT THE NEWS.

IN St.

CLOUD, ITS NEWSPAPER, THE St.

CLOUD TIMES HAS BECOME THE NEWS.

THIS MONTH, THE PAPER LOST ITS LAST LOCAL FULL-TIME REPORTER.

>> IS A FOR-PROFIT ORGANIZATION.

AND, SO, THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE FOR THEM AT DIFFERENT PERIODS IN THE AST TEN YEARS TO DOWNSIZE.

>> JOURNALIST NORA HERTEL WORKED FOR THE St.

CLOUD TIMES FOR FOUR YEARS UNTIL 2021.

>> MY OFFICIAL TITLE WAS PUBLIC ISSUES INVESTIGATOR.

>> OVER THE YEARS, SHE SAYS THE NEWSPAPER CHIPPED AWAY AT A 20-PERSON-STRONG LOCAL NEWSROOM.

WHEN SHE LEFT, THERE WERE ONLY SEVEN REPORTERS.

>> HOW CONCERNED IS THE COMMUNITY ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE TIMES GHOAT >> SO -- AT THE "TIMES"?

>> SO, VERY CONCERNED.

PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

>> I THINK IT'S A GREAT TIME TO BE INVOLVED IN POLITICAL CORRUPTION.

THERE'S LITERALLY PROBABLY NO ONE WATCHING AT ALL.

>> DALE IS CHAIR OF THE MASS COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT AT St.

CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY.

GREATER St.

CLOUD IS HOME TO A HANDFUL OF COMMUNITIES, WITH ABOUT 200,000 RESIDENTS.

HE SAYS WHEN LOCAL JOURNALISM DRIES UP -- >> IT'S NOT GOOD.

STUDIES SHOW THAT IT'S GET - MORE POLARIZATION.

THERE'S MORE DISINFORMATION.

PEOPLE HAVE LESS ENGAGEMENT IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

>> INSTEAD, HE AYS THE PAPER SEEMS TO BE RELYING ON REGIONAL COLUMNISTS AND CURATED NATIONAL NEWS.

AS A CONSUMER, HE SAYS HE DOESN'T LIKE IT.

>> WE JUST HAD AN ELECTION.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND INFORMATION ABOUT THE CANDIDATES.

I JUST FELT LIKE IT WASN'T HELPFUL AT ALL.

AND I COULD SEE WHY SOMEONE WOULDN'T VOTE BECAUSE OF THAT.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CANDIDATES.

>> IN A STATEMENT, A SPOKESPERSON SAID, THE St.

CLOUD TIMES HAS DEEP ROOTS IN CENTRAL MINNESOTA, AND WE REMAIN COMMITTED TO PROVIDING RESOURCES TO OUR NEWSROOM BY ACTIVELY RECRUITING FOR EDITORIAL POSITIONS AND RELYING ON OUR U.S.A. TODAY NETWORK TO ENSURE CONTINUED COVERAGE.

Z.OCKER AYS, IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE CONSOLIDATION OF NEWS MEDIA IS CHANGING THE LANDSCAPE.

>> IN THIS POINT OF TIME, RIGHT NOW, IN St.

CLOUD, MINNESOTA, WE ARE IN A NEWS VOID.

YOU COULD LIVE HERE AND REALLY YOU KNOW A LOT OF WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT IS HAPPENING, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S HAPPENING, OR HOW IT COULD BE DIFFERENT.

THAT'S WHAT'S MISSING.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON.

I'M ALEX AY COULD YOU SKI.

>> RADIO IS ONE OF THE COMPETITORS TRYING TO FILL THE VOID.

WITH FIVE REPORTERS, IT NOW HAS THE LARGEST PROFESSIONAL NEWSROOM IN St.

CLOUD.

>> WE'RE OBVIOUSLY A RADIO STATION.

FIRST AND FOREMOST.

BUT WE ARE A MULTIMEDIA COMPANY.

>> JIM MAURICE IS THE NEWS DIRECTOR.

WITH NO LOCAL TV STATION, AND A GUTTED LOCAL PAPER, HE SAYS MORE PEOPLE HAVE TURNED TO WJON FOR THEIR PRIMARY NEWS SOURCE.

AND HE SAYS THAT'S CREATED NEW OPPORTUNITIES.

>> WE ARE INTENTIONAL WITH THAT, FOR SURE.

OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, WE'VE ADDED OBITUARIES TO UR WEBSITE AS WELL, WE DON'T PUT THEM ON THE RADIO, BUT WE PUT THEM ON OUR WEBSITE.

>> THEY'RE NOT ALONE.

THIS MONTH, FARGO-BASED FORUM COMMUNICATIONS ALSO LAUNCHED A DIGITAL NEWS SITE, St.

CLOUD LIVE.

>> WHILE SOME ARE PULLING BACK IN THE MEDIA SPACE, WE ARE ALL IN ON COMMUNITY JOURNALISM.

SO, WE ARE NOT HOLDING BACK.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS IS FORUM'S HISTORY.

IT'S A FIFTH-GENERATION FAMILY-RUN COMPANY.

HAS DOZENS OF NEWS BRANDS IN 22 COMMUNITIES ACROSS FOUR STATES.

>> WHY NOT JUST BY THE "TIMES"?

>> WELL, A LOT F PEOPLE HAVE ASKED THAT QUESTION.

>> ONE REASON IS LESS BAGGAGE.

SHE SAYS A DIGITAL SITE CAN SCALE UP QUICKLY AND IT'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE.

TWO LOCAL REPORTERS HAVE ALREADY BEEN HIRED WITH PLANS FOR TWO MORE BY SUMMER.

AND THEY'LL LEAN ON ASSETS ALREADY IN THE REGION.

>> YOU KNOW, YES, WE'RE COVERING St.

CLOUD, BUT WE HAVE A REPORTER IN St. PAUL, WE HAVE REPORTERS IN SEVERAL COMMUNITIES THAT ARE WITHIN AN HOUR DISTANCE, WILLMAR, ALEXANDRIA, BRAINERD.

>> COMMUNITY FREE WEEKLY'S COVERING SARTELL, WAITE PARK AND OTHERS, ALSO SERVE A ROLE.

BUT MANY SAY THERE'S STILL A LOT NOT COVERED.

FORMER St.

CLOUD TIMES REPORTER NORA HERTEL HAS STARTED HER OWN NONPROFIT NEWSLETTER AND NEWS SITE.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN THE REPORTERS THAT ARE THERE ARE SPREAD SO THIN THEY DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO GO REALLY DEEP.

>> HERTEL IS FOCUSING ON STORIES ABOUT COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS.

SHE SAYS THERE'S ALSO A DEEP HUNGER FOR STORIES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND BUSINESS INNOVATION.

AS FOR HER FORMER EMPLOYER -- >> IN THE -- AND THE NEWSPAPER WILL PROBABLY BE AROUND AS LONG AS THERE ARE BABY BOOMERS PAYING FOR IT, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THE DAILY PAPER 'IS LONG FOR THIS EARTH.

>> CATHY: THIS PAST WEEKEND WE LEARNED THAT FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER HAS DECIDED TO ENTER HOSPICE CARE AT HIS HOME IN GEORGIA.

CARTER, WHO TURNED 98 LAST OCTOBER, IS OUR NATION'S LONGEST-LIVING PRESIDENT AND HAS BUILT A REPUTATION OF TIRELESS PUBLIC SERVICE.

NEARLY 40 YEARS AGO FORMER PRESIDENT CARTER APPEARED ON "ALMANAC" AS HE WAS TOURING THE NATION IN SUPPORT OF HIS BOOK ON MIDDLE EASTERN POLITICS: "THE BLOOD OF ABRAHAM."

"ALMANAC" HAD JUST BEEN ON THE AIR FOR A FEW MONTHS, AND THE CARTER STUDIO INTERVIEW WAS MEMORABLE FOR SEVERAL REASONS.

BRENDAN HENEHAN WAS SITTING IN THE "ALMANAC" PRODUCER'S CHAIR IN 1985 WHEN CARTER WAS A GUEST.

AND HE'S MADE A RARE TRIP FROM THE CONTROL ROOM TO THE STUDIO TO TALK A BIT ABOUT THE CARTER VISIT.

NICE TO SEE YOU ACTUALLY OUT HERE.

>> THAT HAPPENS NOT VERY OFTEN.

>> Cathy: I DIDN'T THINK SO, YEAH.

HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU ET FORMER PRESIDENT CARTER ERE ON THE SET?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PRODUCER AT THE STATION, YOU KNOW, WHO CALLED AND SAID, YOU KNOW, I THINK I KNOW THE PUBLICIST AND PRESIDENT CARTER'S DOING A BOOK TOUR, WOULD YOU EVER BE INTERESTED IN HAVING HIM ON ALMANAC?"

I SAID, SURE.

CAN YOU MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

AND THEY SAID, YEAH, I THINK SO.

I SAID, WELL, TRY IT.

AND IT ACTUALLY WORKED.

>> Eric: "ALMANAC" WAS RELATIVELY NEW PROGRAM AT THE TIME.

WAS THIS A BIG DEAL FOR THE PROGRAM?

>> YEAH.

AND IT WAS A BIG DEAL, YOU KNOW, FOR THE STATION.

WE WERE IN THE OLD FACILITY BY, YOU KNOW, THE STATE FAIRGROUNDS ON COMO AVENUE.

AS FAR AS I KNOW, YOU KNOW, FORMER PRESIDENT HAD NEVER BEEN IN OUR STUDIO BEFORE.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, "ALMANAC" WAS NEW.

AND IT WAS REALLY A COUP FOR US TO KIND OF GET IT.

SO IT WAS A WILD RIDE.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THE EVENING?

>> WE PRETAPED IT.

>> Cathy: OH, YOU DID?

>> HE WAS NOT AVAILABLE TO JOIN US LIVE SO WE TAPED IT IN THE AFTERNOON.

BUT NO EDITS, STRAIGHT TO TAPE.

IT WAS LIKE A 20-MINUTE INTERVIEW.

AND THE HOSTS WERE NEW, JAN SMABY, JOE SUMMERS WERE NEW, I WAS A PUPPY IN THE CONTROL ROOM, SO, YOU KNOW, ALL OF US WERE 8 A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT IT.

I THOUGHT IT TURNED OUT GREAT.

>> Eric: WE'VE GOT A CLIP.

WHY DON'T YOU SET IT UP FOR US.

>> YEAH, SO, JIMMY CARTER, HE'D WRITTEN A BOOK ON THE MIDDLE EAST SO, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A BIT, YOU BUT WE TALKED ABOUT OTHER THINGS IN THE INTERVIEW AS WELL.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT AS THE IRANIAN HOSTAGE CRISIS.

AND, SO, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT A CLIP THAT TALKS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT AND MEDIA COVERAGE OF HIS PRESIDENCY.

AND OF IT STARTED A LITTLE NERVOUSLY WITH HOST JAN SMABY ASKING PRESIDENT CARTER ABOUT THE IRANIAN HOSTAGE SITUATION AND HE LAUGHED A LITTLE BIT, TAKE A OOK, IT'S RARE MOMENT.

>> YOU WERE HURT AND HURT BADLY WHEN THE RESCUE MISSION THAT YOU SENT TO RESCUE THE HOSTAGES FAILED.

>> YES.

>> AND, YET -- [ Laughter ] >> LIKE THE WALTER RONKITE IN 110 DAYS.

AND, YET, PRESIDENT REAGAN SEEMED NEARLY UNTOUCHED WHEN OVER 200 AMERICAN SOLDIERS WERE KILLED BY THE TERRORIST BOMBS IN LEBANON TWO YEARS AGO.

WHY THE DIFFERENCE?

AND HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

>> WELL, PRESIDENT REAGAN HAS BEEN UNBELIEVABLY SUCCESSFUL IN AVOIDING ANY RESPONSIBILITY EVER OR ANYTHING THAT WAS UNPLEASANT OR DISAPPOINTING OR POLITICALLY UNPOPULAR.

HE IS A REMARKABLE -- HE HAS A REMARKABLE FACILITY OF SHIFTING THE BLAME OR RESPONSIBILITY TO SOMEONE ELSE.

SOMETIMES TO THE REPUBLICAN SENATE, SOMETIMES TO THE DEMOCRATIC HOUSE.

SOMETIMES TO THE NEWS MEDIA.

SOMETIMES TO FOREIGNERS.

SOMETIMES TO HIS OWN STAFF MEMBERS OR CABINET OFFICERS.

AND I HAVE TO SAY, QUITE OFTEN, TO HIS PREDECESSORS IN OFFICE, NOT JUST ME, BUT QUITE OFTEN EVEN TO PRESIDENT ORD AND NIXON.

AND I THINK THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, AND I HAVE TO ADD THE AMERICAN NEWS MEDIA, HAVE GONE ALONG WITH THIS PLOY OF HIS AND HAS MADE IT VERY SUCCESSFUL.

>> DO YOU HAVE -- DO YOU HAVE A FEELING AS TO WHY THE NEWS MEDIA HAS, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SO WILLING TO ACCEPT THIS?

>> I REALLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT.

IN MY LIFETIME IN POLITICS, JUST AS A SMALL BOY, IN THE BEGINNING, THERE HAVE BEEN FOUR PRESIDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN TREATED VERY FAVORABLY BY THE PRESS.

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, DWIGHT EISENHOWER, JOHN KENNEDY AND RONALD REAGAN.

AND IF YOU GO DOWN THE LIST OF THE OTHERS, YOU SEE THAT AT TIMES THEY WERE TREATED AS ADVERSARIES BY THE RESS AND WERE CONDEMNED SEVERELY.

PERHAPS WORST CASE WAS WITH HARRY TRUMAN.

BUT IT WAS THE ALSO -- IT WAS ALSO THE CASE WITH LYNDON JOHNSON AND WAS THE CASE WITH NIXON AND WITH ME.

AND STRANGELY ENOUGH, EVEN GERALD FORD, WHO WASN'T THERE VERY LONG.

MOST OF WHAT I REMEMBER ABOUT THE PRESS, THEY MADE IT LOOK IT AS THOUGH HE WAS AN INCOMPETENT BUMBLER, HE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING PHYSICALLY THAT WAS RIGHT.

HE COULDN'T GET OUT OF A HELICOPTER WITHOUT BUMPING HIS HEAD, FELL DOWN ON THE SKI SLOPES.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, HE PROBABLY WAS THE BEST ATHLETE THAT EVER LIVED IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

BUT I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN WHY THE PRESS HAS TREATED RONALD REAGAN WITH SUCH LOVE AND AFFECTION AND PROTECTION.

ONE OF THE MAJOR GOALS IN MY LIFE, AND WHERE ROWS LYNN AND I WILL SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE OF IS IN THE CARTER CENTER OF EMORY UNIVERSITY, WHERE ON STRICTLY NONPARTISAN BASIS, WE'LL ADDRESS THE MAJOR ISSUES AFFECTING OUR COUNTRY AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.

I'VE BEEN VERY CAREFUL TO MAKE THIS A BIPARTISAN EFFORT IN THE MIDDLE EAST, ARMS CONTROL.

PRESIDENT GERALD FORD HAS BEEN MY CO-CHAIRMAN, WE SPENT A YEAR AND A HALF ON HEALTHCARE, PRESIDENT REAGAN'S OWN SECRETARY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH, IS MY CO-CHAIRMAN.

SO I'VE BEEN VERY CAREFUL NOT TO BECOME KNOWN AS A PARTISAN DEMOCRAT IN MY WORK AT THE UNIVERSITY.

AND I DON'T INTEND TO GET INVOLVED IN ANY SORT OF PARTISAN AFFAIRS IN 1988.

♪♪ >> ERIC: WHILE PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS MAKING HIS SURPRISE VISIT TO UKRAINE ON THE WAY TO POLAND, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN ANNOUNCED HIS COUNTRY WILL "SUSPEND" PARTICIPATION IN THE NEW START NUCLEAR ACCORD.

BACK HERE IN THE U.S., THE JANUARY 6TH INSURRECTION CONTINUES TO MAKE NEWS.

REPUBLICAN HOUSE SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY IS GIVING FOX NEWS ACCESS TO CAPITOL SECURITY TAPES FROM THAT DAY.

AND THE SPECIAL COUNSEL INVESTIGATING FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SUBPOENAED HIS DAUGHTER IVANKA AND SON-IN-LAW JAROD KUSHNER.

LOT OF NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL NEWS FOR OUR ESTEEMED GROUP OF POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS TO PONDER.

DAVID SCHULTZ IS DOING DOUBLE DUTY FOR US TONIGHT.

WHEN HE'S NOT TEACHING OVERSEAS, HE TOILS AWAY AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY.

KATHRYN PEARSON INSTRUCTS POLITICAL SCIENCE STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

AND JOINING US FROM DULUTH, CINDY RUGELEY, WHO HEADS UP THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT UMD.

PROFESSOR PEARSON, TRAIN DERAILMENT, NORTHEASTERN OHIO HAS BECOME POLITICAL.

>> IT HAS BECOME VERY POLITICAL.

>> Eric: EXPLAIN.

>> WELL, IT HAPPENED FEBRUARY 3rd AND, SO, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CRITICISM OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FOR NOT RESPONDING QUICKLY ENOUGH.

THE TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY PETE BEAUTY JUDGE ONLY RECENTLY WENT.

BUTTIGIEG.

THE NTSB SAID LET'S NOT MAKE THIS POLITICAL.

THIS ACCIDENT COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED AND LET'S WORK TO PREVENT IT.

FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, DEMOCRATS' PART, THEY'RE POINTING TO DEREGULATION IN CONGRESS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SIGNED DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS BEING CRITICIZED FOR NOT SHOWING UP THERE.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF POLITICS GOING ON WHEN WHAT THE PEOPLE REALLY NEED IS A SOLUTION.

>> Cathy: AND PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOWED UP.

>> YES.

>> Cathy: TO THE SITE.

>> Eric: AND HE'S COMING BACK WEDNESDAY, I GUESS, WITH PALLETS OF WATER AND SUPPLIES.

>> YES, HE IS.

IT HAS BECOME, UNFORTUNATELY, POLITICIZED.

AND WHAT WE'RE NOT REALLY GETTING IS A REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION OR INVESTIGATION ABOUT THE CAUSES, WHETHER OR NOT THE DEREGULATION IS AN ISSUE.

AND REALLY, I THINK, MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW DO WE GO FORWARD AND ENSURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE FUTURE ACCIDENTS LIKE THIS?

RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST LIKE, IT'S A BLAME GAME.

LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN AMERICAN POLITICS, IT'S, WHAT, IT'S JUST THE POLARIZATION AND THE BLAME GAME RIGHT NOW, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> Cathy: PROFESSOR RUGELEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I KIND OF GREE.

I KNOW THE EPA CAME OUT, OR SOME INDEPENDENT GROUP, CAME OUT AND SAID THAT SOME OF THE CHEMICALS IN THE AIR COULD CAUSE LONG-TERM EFFECTS.

AND I THINK IT'S ALL GOTTEN WRAPPED UP IN POLITICS.

IT WAS A GOOD MOVE BY TRUMP TO GO THERE, PARTICULARLY AFTER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WAS A LITTLE SLOW OFF THE GUN.

AND, SO, YEAH, I THINK IT HAS TURNED POLITICAL AND I THINK IT'S KIND OF A REFLECTION OF OUR SOCIETY, OUR POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT TODAY.

>> Cathy: KATHRYN PEARSON, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS INTERESTING SITUATION WITH SPEAKER McCARTHY SHARING THE SECURITY TAPES OF JANUARY 6th WITH FOX NEWS.

>> RIGHT.

AND TUCKER CARLSON -- >> Cathy: EXACTLY.

>> -- QUITE TROUBLING GIVEN THAT A LOT OF SECURE INFORMATION IS CONTAINED ON THOSE TAPES.

AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S THE CONCERN THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAPPEN AGAIN AND THAT THE INNER HALLWAYS AND BASEMENTS AND THE CAPITOL, WHICH, YOU KNOW, ARE THERE FOR MEMBERS' SAFETY FOR INSTANCES LIKE THIS, COULD BE REVEALED TO AN AUDIENCE WHO PERHAPS HAS NEFARIOUS GOALS.

>> Cathy: WHAT IS BEHIND THIS, DO WE KNOW?

>> I THINK, I MEAN, SPEAKER McCARTHY IS REALLY TRYING TO SHORE UP HIS CONSERVATIVE CREDENTIALS.

BUT THIS IS A TROUBLING WAY TO DO THAT.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR RUGELEY, PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS GONE UP A LITTLE BIT IN THE POLLS SINCE THE STATE OF THE UNION SPEECH.

AS HE BEGINS THE CYCLE NOW FOR 2024, WHERE IS HE VIA VIEW HIS -- VIS-A-VIS HIS RE-ELECTION?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE, DEMOCRATS -- WELL, DEMOCRATS WHO DON'T WANT HIM TO RUN AGAIN.

AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY MUCH CONCERNED THAT HIS AGE COULD BE A FACTOR.

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'D HATE TO HAVE SOMEBODY DIE IN OFFICE, TO BE BLUNT.

AND, SO, I THINK THAT PEOPLE LIKE HIM, BUT I DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT HIM TO RUN AGAIN, ARE VERY MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT HIM RUNNING AGAIN.

I THINK THAT IF HE MAKES THE DECISION TO RUN AGAIN, HE'LL BE THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.

SO, THAT'S WHAT IT'S SHAPING UP TO BE RIGHT NOW.

>> A COUPLE THINGS.

FIRST OFF, I THINK THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, I THINK ABOUT 60% OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS SAYING, THEY'RE NOT PARTICULARLY THRILLED ABOUT A TRUMP/BIDEN REMATCH AT THIS POINT.

BUT GUESS WHAT?

WITHIN REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES, TRUMP AND BIDEN ARE PROBABLY THE STRONGEST CANDIDATES BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THERE'S ERODING SUPPORT FOR TRUMP, HE PROBABLY STILL CONTROLS ABOUT 30 OR 40% OF THE BASE AT THIS POINT.

AND WITH THE DIVIDED PARTY, LET'S SAY DESANTIS, HALEY, HE'S STILL IN THE BEST POSITION, AND BIDEN AT THIS POINT, IF HE DOESN'T RUN, THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NO CLEAR CANDIDATE.

I MEAN, MAYBE YOU HAVE GRETCHEN WID MERE IN MICHIGAN OR A COUPLE OTHER PEOPLE.

BUT HE CLEARLY HAS A LOCK IF HE WANTS IT.

>> Cathy: PROFESSOR PEARSON, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

AND, SO, THE BIGGER THE FIELD IS, THE BETTER THINGS ARE FOR THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

IF IT'S UST A DESANTIS AND HALEY VERSUS TRUMP COMPETITION, IT COULD BECOME WINNOWED AND IT BECOME A TWO-PERSON RACE WHERE TRUMP WOULDN'T GET THE NOMINATION.

BUT IF IT'S A BIG REPUBLICAN FIELD, LIKE 2016, THAT, OF COURSE, ADVANTAGES FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND I THINK THAT DEMOCRATS ARE CONCERNED, IN ANY DIRECTION, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT BIDEN'S AGE, BUT THEY'RE ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT IS THERE A CANDIDATE WHO COULD WIN IN 2024?

>> I WANT TO THROW ONE QUICK THING IN HERE ALSO.

LOOK TO SEE IF TRUMP DOESN'T LOOK LIKE HE CAN GET THE NOMINATION, LOOK TO SEE LATER THIS YEAR, HE'LL MOVE FOR A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDACY.

THE ODDS ARE AGAINST HIM, BUT I CAN SEE HIM WANTING TO DO THAT.

>> Cathy: EXPLAIN TO US, IF YOU WOULD, WISCONSIN IS GETTING SOME LOVE HERE FROM THE GOP.

EVIDENTLY, THE FIRST GOP DEBATE IS GOING TO BE IN MILWAUKEE.

AND THEY'VE LANDED THE GOP CONVENTION.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> ONE OF THREE STRENGTHS -- ONE OF THREE SWING STATES, PARDON ME, THREE SWING STATES THAT ARE PROBABLY GOING TO DECIDE THE ELECTION AT SOME POINT.

IT'S BEEN VERY CLOSE THE LAST TWO ELECTIONS THERE.

THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND WISCONSIN, I HINK.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR RUGELEY, ONE OF THE THEORIES, NEW THEORY I HEARD IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE IN '24 IS THAT GOVERNOR DESANTIS AND PRESIDENT TRUMP KIND OF DESTROY IT EACH OTHER ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, LEAVING AN OPENING FOR NIKKI HALEY OR SENATOR TIM SCOTT OR SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK A CANDIDATE LIKE TIM SCOTT MIGHT STAND A CHANCE.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT TRUMP IS IF HE'S NOT GOING TO BE THE NOMINEE, HE'S GOING TO MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO BLOW UP WHOEVER IS.

AND, SO, YOU KNOW, CAN A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE WIN?

NO.

BUT CAN HE TORCH THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE?

CAN IT TORCH THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE?

IT MOST CERTAINLY CAN.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THREATS OF TRUMP.

AND, YOU KNOW, ALSO, IS DESANTIS, DOES HE HAVE THE HIDE TO REALLY STAND UP TO TRUMP?

BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THINKING, WELL, MAYBE THEY'LL GO AFTER EACH OTHER AND IT WILL SERVE AS A BLOCKING BACK OR ONE OF US.

I JUST THINK IT WOULD BE TOUGH FOR ANY OTHER CANDIDATE BESIDES ONE OF THOSE TWO.

- I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NOW IS, CURRENTLY IS THE PARTY OF TRUMP.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY'RE TIRED OF THE CHAOS AND EVERYTHING.

BUT HE DOES HAVE A STRONG BASE OF SUPPORT.

>> Eric: KATHRYN PEARSON, DURING THE STATE OF THE UNION SPEECH, THE MARQUEE MOMENT WAS WHEN THE SOCIAL SECURITY MEDICARE OFF THE TABLE.

BUT, REALLY, ISN'T SOMETHING GOING TO HAVE TO BE DONE, DESPITE THIS HANDS-OFF BUSINESS?

>> WELL, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A COMPROMISE THAT INVOLVES SPENDING CUTS TO RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT AND WE TAKE SOCIAL SECURITY MEDICARE OFF THE TABLE, THAT'S A LOT -- AND DEFENSE IS OFF THE TABLE, THAT'S A LOT OF CUTS.

DISCRETIONARY DOMESTIC SPENDING.

AND, SO, I THINK THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN REALLY, HE WAS SORT OF MASTERFUL IN PUTTING REPUBLICANS ON THE RECORD BY HAVING THEM STANDING UP AND APPLAUDING, YOU KNOW, NO CUTS TO SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

BUT THAT'S GOING TO MEAN A LOT OF DOMESTIC DISCRETIONARY SPENDING CUTS PROPOSED BY REPUBLICANS.

>> Eric: WHEN DOES THE DEBT CEILING BECOME A CRISIS?

>> DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU'RE LOOKING AT YOUR RETIREMENT PORTFOLIO RIGHT NOW OR NOT.

FOR MANY PEOPLE, IT'S ALREADY A CRISIS.

I SUSPECT IN THE NEXT -- WE STILL PROBABLY HAVE A COUPLE OF MONTHS TO GO, BUT THE CLOSER AND CLOSER WE GET TO THAT DATE, AND I'VE SEEN SEVERAL DATES, I'VE SEEN MAY, I'VE SEEN JULY, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

IT ALREADY IS A PROBLEM RIGHT NOW.

AND IT'S ALREADY HAVING JITTERS ON WALL STREET WITH A LOT OF STOCK INVESTORS AT THIS POINT, BUT IT'S REALLY A BIGGER PROBLEM, I THINK, A COUPLE MORE MONTHS DOWN THE LINE.

>> Cathy: SEE, I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE FORMER PRESIDENT CARTER, THAT TAPE THAT WE HAD EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM WHEN HE WAS ON "ALMANAC," AND, CLEARLY, THE PRESIDENT'S STILL WITH US, BUT HE'S IN HOSPICE, HOW DO YOU THINK HE DOES RANK WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE PRESIDENTS?

I MEAN, HOW DOES HE -- WHAT WILL HIS LEGACY BE?

>> WELL, HIS LEGACY WILL REALLY BE CENTERED AROUND WHAT AN AMAZING POST-PRESIDENT HE WAS.

FORMING THE CARTER CENTER, HIS EFFORTS FOR PEACE, HIS EFFORTS AT COMBATTING DISEASE WORLDWIDE, HIS BIPARTISAN COOPERATION, JUST SORT OF THE WAY THAT HE AND ROSILYN CARTER WENT BACK TO PLAINS, GEORGIA, AND TAUGHT SUNDAY SCHOOL, BEING PILLARS OF THEIR COMMUNITY AND NOT A PARTISAN PERSON WHO WANTED TO CASH IN AND MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.

SO DEFINITELY HIS POST-PRESIDENT LEGACY IS VERY VERY STRONG.

HE WAS NOT A PARTICULARLY IMPRESSIVE PRESIDENT.

OF COURSE, THE HOSTAGE CRISIS, HE WAS CHALLENGED FROM WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY BY FORMER SENATOR TED KENNEDY.

AND, SO, A LOT OF DEMOCRATS WERE VERY DISSATISFIED WITH HIM AS A PRESIDENT AND, OF COURSE, HE LOST RESOUNDINGLY.

>> Eric: YES OR NO, IS THERE A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE THAT'S GOING TO TAKE ON AMY KLOBUCHAR IN '24?

>> NOT ONE THAT'S VIABLE AT THIS POINT.

THE REPUBLICANS WILL THROW SOMEBODY UP.

BUT AT THIS POINT, THE REPUBLICANS REALLY DON'T HAVE A GOOD STATEWIDE BASE OR A GOOD STATEWIDE CANDIDATE THAT THEY CAN REALLY SORT OF BRING OUT FROM, LET'S SAY, THE JUNIOR VARSITY TO RUN AT THE VARSITY LEVEL.

>> Eric: THANK YOU, PROFESSOR RUGELEY, THANK YOU, KATHRYN PEARSON, DAVID SCHULTZ.

>> Cathy: THANKS FOR DOUBLE DUTY, BY THE WAY.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

>> Eric: TAKE US HOME, C. >> CATHY: WE'VE RUN A BIT LONG TONIGHT SO WE'LL HAVE A NEW HISTORY QUESTION FOR YOU NEXT WEEK.

PROMISE.

UNTIL THEN, WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME FOR A LITTLE SHOW-CLOSING MUSIC TO SEND YOU ON YOUR WAY.

IT WAS THIS WEEK BACK IN 1999 THAT PETER HIMMELMAN APPEARED ON THE OLD NEWSNIGHT MINNESOTA PROGRAM AND PLAYED A TUNE FOR US ON THE OLD PETROF.

PIANO.

TAKE A LISTEN TO "GRAVITY CAN'T KEEP MY SPIRIT DOWN" AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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