♪ RUBENSTEIN: SO WHY DO YOU THINK SOME PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SUCH A THING AS CLIMATE CHANGE?

YOU KNOW, THEY MUST NOT HAVE TAKEN ENOUGH SCIENCE COURSES OR SOMETHING.

I DON'T KNOW.

YOU WORRY THAT THERE'S TOO MUCH POWER AND TOO MUCH DATA IN THE HANDS OF THESE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES?

THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED.

SO ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE POWER OF AI TO DISRUPT OUR CIVILIZATION AND PUT PEOPLE OUT OF WORK, THOSE KIND OF THINGS?

THE INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY THAT WILL COME FROM AI WILL CREATE DILEMMAS.

WOMAN: WOULD YOU FIX YOUR TIE, PLEASE?

RUBENSTEIN: WELL, PEOPLE WOULDN'T RECOGNIZE ME IF MY TIE WAS FIXED, BUT OK. WOMAN: HEH HEH.

RUBENSTEIN: JUST LEAVE IT THIS WAY.

ALL RIGHT.

I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF A JOURNALIST, AND NOBODY ELSE WOULD CONSIDER MYSELF A JOURNALIST.

I BEGAN TO TAKE ON THE LIFE OF BEING AN INTERVIEWER EVEN THOUGH I HAVE A DAY JOB RUNNING PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM.

HOW DO YOU DEFINE LEADERSHIP?

WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES SOMEBODY TICK?

FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS OR SO, YOU'VE BEEN THE WEALTHIEST MAN IN THE WORLD, BUT BECAUSE YOU'VE GIVEN AWAY SO MUCH MONEY, RECENTLY JEFF BEZOS BECAME WEALTHIER.

DO YOU THINK IF YOU HAD STAYED IN COLLEGE AND GOTTEN YOUR COLLEGE DEGREE... [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] I MEAN, YOU DON'T FEEL INADEQUATE NOW BECAUSE BEING ONLY THE SECOND WEALTHIEST MAN IN THE WORLD, IS THAT RIGHT?

GATES: NO.

I MEAN, IT'S A SIGN THAT I HAVEN'T GIVEN THE MONEY AWAY FAST ENOUGH TO DROP OUT OF THE TOP 10.

YOU KNOW, AND THE MARKET'S BEEN STRONG.

[APPLAUSE] RUBENSTEIN: ACTUALLY, THE MARKET HAS BEEN STRONG.

MICROSOFT IS UP 35% THIS YEAR, SO WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THAT?

GATES: THE COMPANY, YOU KNOW, IS DOING SUPER-WELL.

SATYA NADELLA IS A GREAT CEO.

YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE DREAM OF THE IMPORTANCE OF SOFTWARE HAS REALLY COME TRUE.

THE 5 MOST VALUABLE COMPANIES IN THE WORLD ARE THESE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES.

MICROSOFT HAS A GOOD SHARE OF THAT.

I GET TO SPEND ABOUT-- 1/6 OF MY TIME NOW IS OVER AT MICROSOFT.

RUBENSTEIN: SO RECENTLY, YOU SAID THAT THE BIGGEST MISTAKE YOU'VE MADE PROFESSIONALLY WAS THAT MICROSOFT SHOULD HAVE HAD THE ANDROID TECHNOLOGY.

WHY WAS THAT THE BIGGEST MISTAKE?

GATES: WHEN YOU'RE IN A FIELD-- YOU KNOW, WE WERE IN THE FIELD OF DOING OPERATING SYSTEMS FOR PERSONAL COMPUTERS.

WE KNEW THE MOBILE PHONE WOULD BE VERY POPULAR, AND SO WE WERE DOING WHAT WAS CALLED WINDOWS MOBILE.

WE MISSED BEING THE DOMINANT MOBILE OPERATING SYSTEM BY A VERY TINY AMOUNT.

WE WERE DISTRACTED DURING OUR ANTITRUST TRIAL, WE DIDN'T ASSIGN THE BEST PEOPLE TO DO THE WORK, SO IT'S THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I MADE IN TERMS OF SOMETHING THAT WAS CLEARLY WITHIN OUR SKILLSET.

WE WERE CLEARLY THE COMPANY THAT SHOULD HAVE ACHIEVED THAT.

RUBENSTEIN: RECENTLY, YOU'VE DECIDED TO MAKE ANOTHER EFFORT NOT NECESSARILY THROUGH YOUR FOUNDATION BUT THROUGH BREAKTHROUGH ENERGY TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

WHY ARE YOU SO WORRIED ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE?

WELL, THE CLIMATE CHANGE IS A PROBLEM THAT GETS WORSE EVERY YEAR, AND YET WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO ON A GLOBAL BASIS IS VERY DRAMATIC IN RESHAPING THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL ECONOMY THAT WE HAVE.

THE GREATEST SUFFERING FROM CLIMATE CHANGE WILL BE FARMERS IN POOR COUNTRIES, AND SO IT'S A VERY COMPLEX PROBLEM, AND IT'S A PROBLEM THAT FITS WHERE I SEE MY VALUE ADDED, WHICH IS LOOKING AT SOMETHING THROUGH THE LENS OF INNOVATION, NOT JUST THE R&D PART BUT THE CREATION OF PRODUCTS AND THE DEPLOYMENT OF PRODUCTS, AND SO HELPING TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT, OK, WHAT ARE THE SOURCES OF THESE GREENHOUSE GASES, AND HOW DO YOU GET ON A PATH OF INNOVATION SO THAT YOU CAN GET GLOBAL ADOPTION AND ACTUALLY BRING EMISSIONS DOWN DRAMATICALLY?

RUBENSTEIN: IS THAT PART OF YOUR FOUNDATION, OR ARE YOU DOING THIS OUTSIDE YOUR FOUNDATION?

GATES: OK.

THE PART WHERE YOU MITIGATE AND YOU HELP THE POOR COUNTRIES WITH BETTER SEEDS AND BETTER POLICIES PARTLY THROUGH DEVELOPMENT AID, THAT IS THROUGH THE FOUNDATION, THAT MITIGATION PART.

THE PART WHERE YOU INVENT NEW WAYS OF MAKING FUELS, ELECTRICITY, CEMENT, STEEL, MEAT, THAT IS DONE DIRECTLY BY ME WITH A LOT OF INVESTMENTS, INCLUDING THE FUND THAT YOU MENTIONED.

THE SO-CALLED BREAKTHROUGH ENERGY VENTURES IS A FUND THAT I ASSEMBLED A GROUP OF 22 PEOPLE TO PUT MONEY INTO COMPANIES THAT ARE TRYING TO COMMERCIALIZE THE BREAKTHROUGHS.

RUBENSTEIN: ALL RIGHT, BUT THAT'S A FUND OF $1 BILLION.

- RIGHT.

- YOU PUT IN $250 MILLION.

SO CAN $1 BILLION REALLY MAKE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE?

GATES: A BILLION, UH, IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN VERY CATALYTIC.

SO FAR, THEY HAVE 20 INVESTMENTS.

LATE NEXT YEAR, WE'LL PROBABLY RAISE ANOTHER BILLION TO 1.5 BILLION.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALL ABOUT INNOVATION, SO RIGHT NOW, THE PREMIUM-- IF YOU SAID, "OK. YOU HAVE TO MAKE STEEL WITH NO EMISSIONS," THAT STEEL WOULD COST YOU 4 TIMES WHAT STEEL DOES TODAY.

YOUR ELECTRIC BILL WOULD MORE THAN DOUBLE IF WE JUST TAKE THE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE TODAY, SO SUPPORTING THOSE COMPANIES AND DRAWING OTHER INVESTORS IN-- ONE THING BREAKTHROUGH ENERGY HAS DONE IS GOTTEN A LOT OF CO-INVESTORS.

GREEN INVESTING DIDN'T GO VERY WELL IN THE FIRST ROUND, AND SO IT LOOKED LIKE A FIELD THAT MIGHT EVAPORATE TO SOME DEGREE.

BECAUSE BEV'S COME IN AND BEEN ABLE TO BRING A DEPTH OF UNDERSTANDING TO THESE THINGS, NOT ONLY HAVE THEY BEEN ABLE TO INVEST-- THE FIRST BILLION WILL BE FULLY COMMITTED WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR-- BUT WE'VE GOTTEN OTHER INVESTORS, SO THAT'S GONE QUITE WELL, AND THE TECHNOLOGY, THEY ONLY INVEST IN COMPANIES WHO HAVE A CHANCE OF REDUCING GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS BY A HALF A PERCENT, EACH COMPANY, AND THEY'VE FOUND 20, AND I'M SURE THEY'LL FIND ANOTHER 20.

RUBENSTEIN: NOW I'M THE SMALLEST INVESTOR IN THAT FUND, I THINK, SO AM I GONNA GET MY MONEY BACK AND MAKE A RETURN, OR WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

GATES: I'D SAY IT'S-- OF THE THINGS YOU INVEST IN, IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE HIGHER RISK THINGS.

IT IS BEING DONE ON A COMMERCIAL BASIS.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE LIKELY TO HAVE A FEW SIGNIFICANT SUCCESSES, SO IT'S NOT PHILANTHROPIC IN THE SENSE THAT YOU CAN DEDUCT IT... [LAUGHTER] BUT THE TIMEFRAME OF THE RETURNS... - RIGHT.

- AND THE RISKINESS OF THE RETURNS ARE FAIRLY HIGH, SO WE DO EXPECT TO MAKE A PROFIT OUT OF THAT FUND.

RUBENSTEIN: SO WHY DO YOU THINK SOME PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SUCH A THING AS CLIMATE CHANGE?

WHAT IS PROPELLING THEM TO SAY THERE'S NO CLIMATE CHANGE?

IS IT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OR SOME OTHER POLITICAL REASON?

I WON'T MENTION ANYBODY, BUT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS CLIMATE CHANGE.

WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY MUST NOT HAVE TAKEN ENOUGH SCIENCE COURSES OR SOMETHING.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT, UH-- [LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] THE CLIMATE IS A COMPLEX ISSUE, AND, YOU KNOW, JUST UNDERSTANDING HOW YOU DO THE ABATEMENT REQUIRES A LOT OF IN-DEPTH STUDY.

IN THE UNITED STATES, IT'S BECOME SOMEWHAT OF A PARTISAN ISSUE, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE.

YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT MAKE IT HARDER TO ACHIEVE THE TYPE OF AGREEMENTS WE NEED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT WE HAVE TWO PROBLEMS.

WE HAVE THE PEOPLE WHO DENY CLIMATE, AND THEN WE HAVE THE PEOPLE WHO THINK IT'S EASY TO SOLVE, AND WE NEED TO HELP EDUCATE BOTH OF THOSE GROUPS.

RUBENSTEIN: BUT IN THE HISTORY OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION, IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS THAT WILL AFFECT THEIR GREAT-GREAT GRANDCHILDREN BUT THAT THEY WON'T SEE THE BENEFIT FROM?

WELL, THE UNITED STATES ACTUALLY OF ALL GOVERNMENTS HAS BEEN WILLING TO TAKE ON VERY DIFFICULT PROBLEMS LIKE CANCER AND MAKE GIGANTIC INVESTMENTS, KNOWING THAT THE REAL PAYOFF WOULD BE MANY DECADES DOWN THE ROAD.

YOU KNOW, WHEN THAT WAS FIRST BEING PUSHED, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WERE SAYING, "HEY.

THIS IS IMPORTANT."

CLIMATE CHANGE IS LIKE THAT, WHERE YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE A LONG-TERM PERSPECTIVE, AND GOVERNMENT AT ITS BEST IS WHEN IT'S TAKING THAT LONG-TERM PERSPECTIVE AND FUNDING THE BASIC R&D AND THE POLICIES THAT LEAD TO SCALED DEPLOYMENT.

RUBENSTEIN: NOW A LARGE PART OF THE CARBON WE HAVE IN THE ATMOSPHERE NOW IS CAUSED BY THE ELECTRICITY GRID, WHICH IS ABOUT 25% OR SO.

- EXACTLY.

- SO 24%, IT COMES FROM AGRICULTURE AND FORESTRY.

WHY IS THAT CAUSING SUCH A BIG INCREASE IN CARBON?

GATES: WELL, THAT CATEGORY IS A VARIETY OF THINGS.

WHEN YOU CLEAR LAND, YOU'RE TAKING THE CARBON THAT'S STORED, SAY, IN THE TREES OR PLANTS THERE, AND YOU'RE RELEASING ALL OF THAT, LIKE BURNING THE LAND, SAY, IN INDONESIA FOR PALM OIL PLANTATIONS.

ANOTHER THING IS THAT COWS AND OTHER GRASS-EATING SPECIES HAVE A DIGESTION SYSTEM THAT EMITS METHANE, AND METHANE IS A VERY POWERFUL GREENHOUSE GAS, AND SO COWS ALONE ACCOUNT FOR ABOUT 6% OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS, SO WE NEED TO CHANGE... RUBENSTEIN: COWS?

GATES: COWS.

JUST COWS ALONE.

RUBENSTEIN: HOW ARE WE GONNA DO THAT?

GATES: WELL, ACTUALLY OF ALL THE CATEGORIES, THE ONE THAT HAS GONE BETTER THAN I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED 5 YEARS AGO IS THIS WORK TO MAKE WHAT'S CALLED ARTIFICIAL MEAT, AND SO YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE IMPOSSIBLE OR BEYOND MEAT, BOTH OF WHICH I INVESTED IN-- RUBENSTEIN: DO YOU EAT IT, AS WELL?

DO YOU LIKE IT?

GATES: ABSOLUTELY.

RUBENSTEIN: YOU DO.

GATES: YOU CAN GO TO BURGER KING AND BUY THE IMPOSSIBLE BURGER.

RUBENSTEIN: ALL RIGHT.

IS IT HEALTHIER FOR YOU OR JUST HEALTHIER FOR THE ATMOSPHERE?

GATES: IT'S SLIGHTLY HEALTHIER FOR YOU IN TERMS OF LESS CHOLESTEROL.

IT'S OF COURSE DRAMATIC REDUCTION IN METHANE EMISSIONS, ANIMAL CRUELTY.

MANURE MANAGEMENT, AND THE PRESSURE THAT MEAT CONSUMPTION PUTS ON LAND USE.

RUBENSTEIN: WHAT ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS?

YOU THINK THAT'S A SOLUTION?

GATES: IT ABSOLUTELY-- IF YOU LOOK AT THE TRANSPORT SECTOR... RUBENSTEIN: THAT'S ABOUT 14% OF-- GATES: PASSENGER CARS WITH ABOUT ANOTHER FACTOR OF 2-3 IN BATTERY IMPROVEMENT, WHICH IS POSSIBLE, THE MAINSTREAM FOR PASSENGER CARS CAN BECOME ELECTRIC.

SO YOU HAVE TO MAKE THAT TRANSITION.

YOU'VE GOT TO SCALE IT UP.

YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE ELECTRICITY IS ZERO-EMISSION, BUT FOR TRUCKS AND PLANES, THERE'S ALMOST NO CHANCE THE BATTERIES WILL BE GOOD ENOUGH, AND SO THERE, YOU'LL STILL NEED TO CREATE LIQUID FUELS EITHER WITH ELECTRICITY OR BIOFUELS SOME WAY.

FUELS ARE AMAZING.

YOU KNOW, THE ENERGY DENSITY OF GASOLINE IS 30 TIMES THE ENERGY DENSITY OF THE BEST BATTERY WE CAN MAKE, AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT, LIKE, A CONTAINER SHIP THAT CROSSES THE OCEAN, HAVING YOUR FUEL BE 30 TIMES LESS EFFICIENT WOULD MEAN THAT 90% OF THE WEIGHT YOU'RE CARRYING WOULD BE THE BATTERIES INSTEAD OF THE CARGO, AND SO TRUCKS AND PLANES AND BOATS, ELECTRIFICATION IS UNLIKELY TO WORK IN THOSE CASES, SO WE NEED WAYS OF MAKING FUELS THAT ARE ZERO-CARBON.

RUBENSTEIN: WHEN YOU TALK TO HEADS OF STATE ABOUT THIS, DO THEY ROLL THEIR EYES AND SAY, "WE'RE HAPPY TO MEET YOU.

CAN I HAVE A SELFIE WITH YOU," AND SO FORTH, BUT DO THEY REALLY DO ANYTHING, AND WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO GET HEADS OF STATE TO DO?

GATES: WELL, IN THE PARIS CLIMATE CONFERENCE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS MISSING WAS A FOCUS ON R&D, SO ACTUALLY, FRANCE SAID, "YES, WE WANT THAT TO BE "FOR THE FIRST TIME AT A COP A REAL ISSUE THAT GETS DISCUSSED," AND SO WHAT AS CALLED MISSION INNOVATION, WHICH PRIME MINISTER MODI GOT TO PICK THAT NAME, THAT IDEA, THE COMMITMENT OF OVER 30 GOVERNMENTS TO DOUBLE THEIR ENERGY R&D WAS A SIGNIFICANT MILESTONE THAT CAME OUT OF THAT CONFERENCE.

IN ORDER TO GET THAT COMMITMENT, I HAD TO MAKE THE COMMITMENT THAT THERE WOULD BE BREAKTHROUGH ENERGY THAT WOULD TAKE THINGS OUT OF THOSE LABS AND HELP GET THEM INTO THE MARKETPLACE, SO THERE'S BEEN SOME PROGRESS.

CLIMATE IS COMPLICATED ENOUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT-- YOU WANT A BROAD SET OF PEOPLE IN THE GOVERNMENT TO UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITIES, AND IN TERMS OF THE R&D WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, UNLESS THE U.S. IS DEEPLY ENGAGED, IT'S UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN BECAUSE SO MUCH OF THE WORLD'S CAPACITY TO DO THAT INNOVATION IS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

RUBENSTEIN: SO THE UNITED STATES PULLED OUT MORE OR LESS OF THE PARIS ACCORD, THOUGH NOT TECHNICALLY SO FOR ANOTHER YEAR OR SO.

IS THAT OF CONCERN TO YOU, AND DO YOU THINK THIS IS GONNA HURT THE EFFORT TO CHANGE CLIMATE CHANGE AROUND THE WORLD?

GATES: YEAH.

IT'S A HUGE STEP BACKWARDS.

EVEN IF YOU MEET ALL THE CURRENT COMMITMENTS IN THAT CLIMATE ACCORD, YOU'RE STILL WAY OVER TWO DEGREES OF WARMING, AND MOST COUNTRIES ARE BEHIND THE COMMITMENTS THEY MADE.

THOSE COMMITMENTS WERE A SET OF REDUCTIONS WHERE YOU WOULD COMPARE YOUR 2030 EMISSIONS TO YOUR 2005 EMISSIONS.

- RIGHT.

- AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF THAT THAT'S EASY.

THE SHIFT FROM COAL TO NATURAL GAS, WHICH IS A ONE-TIME THING, IS A LOT OF THAT, AND YET THE WORLD IS FALLING SHORT, AND SO TO HAVE PEOPLE LIKE THE UNITED STATES SAY, "OK.

EVEN THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT," IT JUST SHOWS HOW DAUNTING THIS IS GOING TO BE.

THERE'S NO WAY WE'LL GET THERE WITHOUT THE U.S. COMING BACK IN IN A STRONG WAY.

RUBENSTEIN: YOU FAMOUSLY DROPPED OUT OF HARVARD, AND THEN YOU STARTED YOUR COMPANY, BUT YOU, I THINK, SAID SUBSEQUENTLY THAT ACTUALLY YOU THOUGHT THE COMPUTER REVOLUTION WAS OCCURRING OR THE SOFTWARE REVOLUTION WAS OCCURRING, BUT ACTUALLY YOU WERE WRONG, AND IF YOU'D STAYED AT HARVARD FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS OR SO, IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

IS THAT RIGHT OR NOT?

GATES: YEAH.

THE URGENCY THAT I FELT THAT IF WE DIDN'T GET MICROSOFT GOING RIGHT WAY THAT SOMEBODY WOULD DO A GREAT JOB BUILDING A SOFTWARE COMPANY AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE A CHANCE, THAT PROBABLY ENDED UP NOT BEING TRUE, THAT I COULD HAVE WAITED 2 OR 3 YEARS, AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO MICROSOFT STILL WOULD BE THERE, BUT ANYWAY, I FELT A SENSE OF URGENCY, AND, YOU KNOW, I STILL GET TO TAKE COURSES AND LEARN THINGS.

IT'S NOT LIKE I'VE MISSED SOME PART OF MY EDUCATION.

RUBENSTEIN: RIGHT.

WHEN YOU DROPPED OUT, YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER SAID, "ARE YOU SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?"

IF ONE OF YOUR CHILDREN DROPPED OUT OF COLLEGE TO START A COMPANY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

WELL, I'D HAVE TO SAY YES, BUT, UH... [LAUGHTER] DROPPING IS NOT AN IRREVOCABLE DECISION.

IF YOU TRY AND START A COMPANY, IT DOESN'T GO WELL, THEY ALWAYS LET YOU GO BACK, SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE KIDS THAT YOU NEED TO SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY LOW-RISK THING, PARTICULARLY IN THE CULTURE OF THE UNITED STATES, WHERE TRYING TO START SOMETHING AND FAILING IS NOT A BLACK MARK FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

RUBENSTEIN: WELL, WHEN YOU WERE STARTING MICROSOFT, THERE WERE A LOT OF OTHER SOFTWARE COMPANIES, AND YOU WERE NOT NUMBER ONE AT THE BEGINNING.

I THINK THERE WERE OTHERS WHO WERE A LITTLE BIT FURTHER AHEAD.

WHAT WAS IT THAT ENABLED YOU TO BEAT EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE SOFTWARE BUSINESS?

WAS IT BILL GATES, WAS IT SOMETHING ELSE?

WHAT WAS THE UNIQUE FACTOR THAT MADE YOU THE MOST SUCCESSFUL?

YEAH.

WE WERE ACTUALLY THE FIRST, BUT THERE WERE COMPANIES, AND THEY WERE ALL KIND OF SINGLE-PRODUCT COMPANIES WHO GOT AHEAD OF US IN TERMS OF SALES.

WE WERE AN ENGINEERING COMPANY.

WE WERE ABOUT HOW YOU HIRE SMART PEOPLE AND HOW YOU USE TOOLS TO DEVELOP SOFTWARE BROADLY.

WE WERE GLOBAL, AND WEREN'T ABOUT A SINGLE PRODUCT.

NOW SUBSEQUENTLY, YOU KNOW, GOOGLE, APPLE, AMAZON HAVE BECOME ALSO EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL, BUT IN THE NINETIES, WE WERE THE STRONGEST BY FAR.

RUBENSTEIN: NOW THE LARGEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD AND THE UNITED STATES TODAY ARE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES-- APPLE, FACEBOOK, GOOGLE, MICROSOFT, AND SO FORTH.

YOU WORRY THAT THERE'S TOO MUCH POWER AND TOO MUCH DATA IN THE HANDS OF THESE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES, AND ARE YOU SURPRISED THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T DONE SOMETHING MORE THAN THEY'VE DONE TO DATE ABOUT THIS?

WELL, TECHNOLOGY'S BECOME SO CENTRAL, THAT GOVERNMENT HAS TO THINK, "OK. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN "ABOUT ELECTIONS?

"WHAT DOES IT MEAN ABOUT BULLYING?

"WHAT DOES IT MEAN ABOUT WIRETAPPING AUTHORITIES "THAT LET YOU FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON FINANCIALLY OR DRUG MONEY LAUNDERING, THINGS LIKE THAT?"

SO, YES, THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED.

I FOR THE EARLY YEARS OF MICROSOFT BRAGGED TO PEOPLE THAT I DIDN'T HAVE AN OFFICE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND EVENTUALLY, I CAME TO REGRET THAT STATEMENT BECAUSE IT WAS KIND OF ALMOST, LIKE, TAUNTING WASHINGTON, D.C.... [LAUGHTER] SO NOW THE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES, PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE LESSON OF MICROSOFT-- OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD HAVE SEEN THAT LESSON THROUGH AT&T OR IBM OR KODAK OR A LOT OF INNOVATORS, AS WELL-- THEY'RE VERY ENGAGED.

THERE WILL BE MORE REGULATION OF THE TECH SECTOR.

THINGS LIKE PRIVACY, I'M SURE THERE'LL-- AND THERE SHOULD BE AT SOME POINT FEDERAL REGULATION THAT RELATES TO THAT.

THE FACT THAT NOW THIS IS THE WAY PEOPLE CONSUME MEDIA HAS REALLY BROUGHT IT INTO A REALM THAT WE NEED TO SHAPE IT SO THAT THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE NEGATIVES.

RUBENSTEIN: SO IF YOU WERE 20 YEARS OLD TODAY AND YOU WANTED TO START A NEW COMPANY, DROP OUT OF HARVARD, WHAT COMPANY-- OR WHAT AREA WOULD YOU WANT TO START IT IN?

GATES: WELL, THIS IS A GREAT TIME TO BE DOING INNOVATION BECAUSE THE TOOLS OF INNOVATION ARE SO MUCH BETTER.

THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS IN BIOLOGY THAT ARE VERY INTERESTING.

THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS IN ENERGY THAT ARE INTERESTING.

GIVEN MY BACKGROUND, I WOULD START AN AI COMPANY WHOSE GOAL WOULD BE TO TEACH COMPUTERS HOW TO READ SO THAT THEY CAN ABSORB AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE WRITTEN KNOWLEDGE OF THE WORLD.

THAT'S AN AREA WHERE AI HAS YET TO MAKE PROGRESS, AND IT WILL BE QUITE PROFOUND WHEN WE ACHIEVE THAT GOAL.

RUBENSTEIN: SO ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE POWER OF AI TO DISRUPT OUR CIVILIZATION AND PUT PEOPLE OUT OF WORK, THOSE KIND OF THINGS?

GATES: THE INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY THAT WILL COME FROM AI WILL CREATE DILEMMAS ABOUT WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE DO WITH THAT EXTRA TIME, AND YOU'VE GOT TO CONSIDER THAT A GOOD THING EVEN THOUGH IT WILL BE AN INTERESTING SET OF ADJUSTMENTS THAT HAVE TO TAKE PLACE.

RUBENSTEIN: SO TODAY, PEOPLE COME TO YOU ALL THE TIME FOR MONEY.

I ASSUME EVERYWHERE YOU GO, PEOPLE SAY, "BY THE WAY, I HAVE THIS THING YOU SHOULD INVEST IN."

I HAVE A COUPLE MYSELF I'LL MENTION LATER.

NO.

I'M JUST KIDDING.

NO.

"A COUPLE THINGS YOU SHOULD INVEST IN OR THINGS YOU SHOULD GIVE MONEY TO."

SO HOW DO YOU RESIST IT?

YOU HAVE SOME PERSON WHO SAYS NO FOR YOU, OR HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

GATES: MANY PEOPLE.

RUBENSTEIN: MANY PEOPLE SAY NO.

GATES: WELL, ONCE YOU'VE PICKED WHAT YOU CARE ABOUT-- IF SOMEBODY HAS SOMETHING THAT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN GLOBAL HEALTH, WE'RE SUPER INTERESTED.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A STAFF OF 1,500 PEOPLE, AND IF IT'S TO DO WITH GLOBAL HEALTH, SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE WILL COME OUT AND TALK THROUGH WITH YOU WHATEVER YOUR INNOVATION IS AND HOW WE CAN PARTNER WITH YOU ON THAT, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S CLEARLY IN OUR AREA.

IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN SUBSTANTIALLY IMPROVE K-12 EDUCATION, THEN WE'RE GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTED IN IT.

IF PEOPLE ARE ASKING OUTSIDE OF THOSE THINGS, THEN, YOU KNOW, FORTUNATELY, YOU CAN SAY NO BECAUSE FOCUS IS KEY TO PHILANTHROPY.

RUBENSTEIN: YOU ASSESSED THE TWO MOST URGENT ISSUES WERE K-12 IN THE UNITED STATES AND HEALTH IN THE LESS DEVELOPED AREAS.

HOW DID YOU PICK THOSE TWO?

ANY REGRETS ABOUT PICKING THOSE TWO, AND HAVE YOU MADE PROGRESS ON EITHER OF THOSE TWO?

GATES: WELL, GLOBAL HEALTH IS OUR BIGGEST AREA, AND THERE, THE PROGRESS HAS BEEN REALLY UNBELIEVABLE, NOT JUST BECAUSE OF OUR WORK BUT OUR PARTNERS THAT INCLUDE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SPENDING ON PEPFAR, THE EUROPEAN DONORS WHO'VE REALLY STEPPED UP ON THESE HEALTH ISSUES.

ONE OF THE METRICS OF IMPORTANCE IS THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN IN THE WORLD WHO DIE BEFORE THE AGE OF 5.

WHEN WE GOT STARTED IN THE YEAR 2000, THAT WAS OVER 10 MILLION A YEAR.

NOW IT'S ABOUT 5 MILLION A YEAR, AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST MIND-BLOWING, AND PEOPLE AREN'T THAT AS AWARE OF IT AS YOU'D LIKE THEM TO BE.

THOSE DEATHS--BECAUSE OF GETTING OUT VACCINES AND UNDERSTANDING A BIT MORE ABOUT NUTRITION-- THOSE DEATHS HAVE BEEN CUT IN HALF.

NOW THE GOAL IS TO CUT THEM IN HALF AGAIN BY 2030.

OUR U.S. EDUCATION WORK THAT IS NOT JUST K-12 BUT INCLUDES HIGHER ED., AS WELL, THERE THE KEY METRICS-- DROPOUT RATES, MATH AND VERBAL ACHIEVEMENT-- THOSE METRICS HAVE MOVED ESSENTIALLY NOT AT ALL, AND EVEN AS THE U.S. IS SPENDING MORE RESOURCES ON EDUCATION.

WE SPEND BY FAR MORE THAN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, AND YET OUR RESULTS ARE QUITE A BIT WORSE THAN ALMOST ALL THE OTHER RICH COUNTRIES AND EVEN SOME MIDDLE-INCOME COUNTRIES.

YOU KNOW, EVEN VIETNAM NOW IS PASSING US IN TERMS OF THEIR MATH RESULTS, SO THERE, THE FIELD AS A WHOLE AND OUR WORK HAS NOT HAD THE IMPACT WE HOPED FOR.

RUBENSTEIN: SO PEOPLE HAVE RECOGNIZED OVER THE YEARS THAT RAISING CHILDREN IS DIFFICULT.

JACKIE KENNEDY FAMOUSLY SAID, "IF YOU MESS UP RAISING YOUR CHILDREN, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS."

YOU HAVE 3 CHILDREN, SEEM TO BE WELL-ADJUSTED, AND YOU'VE KEPT THEM OUT OF THE NEWSPAPERS AND SO FORTH.

HOW DO YOU AVOID SPOILING KIDS LIKE THAT?

I THINK THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM.

YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, OUR KIDS HAVE BENEFITTED FROM HAVING A GREAT EDUCATION AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL, AND, YOU KNOW, SO THEY'RE VERY LUCKY IN THAT SENSE.

MAKING SURE THAT THE VISIBILITY OR THE WAY PEOPLE TREAT THEM IS NOT UNNATURAL, THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES THAT COME WITH THAT.

SO FAR, THEY'VE HANDLED IT WELL.

YOU KNOW, MELINDA IS THE ONE WHO DESERVES ANY-- OR CERTAINLY ALMOST ALL THE CREDIT FOR THE KIDS SO FAR DOING VERY WELL.

YOU KNOW, OUR KIDS-- WE'VE SAID TO THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, THE MONEY IS GOING TO THE FOUNDATION, AND SO THEY DON'T THINK OF THEMSELVES AS SORT OF ARISTOCRATIC INHERITORS.

RUBENSTEIN: WELL, WHAT DO THEY SAY WHEN YOU TELL THEM THAT?

THEY SAY, "CAN'T YOU GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT OR SOMETHING?"

OR THEY DON'T ASK FOR SOME?

[LAUGHTER] THEY'LL GET A LITTLE BIT.

RUBENSTEIN: HOW MUCH MONEY HAS YOUR FOUNDATION GIVEN AWAY TO DATE?

GATES: ABOUT $40 BILLION.

- 40 BILLION?

- YEAH.

WE'RE NOW UP TO GIVING $6 BILLION A YEAR.

RUBENSTEIN: SO FINALLY, IF PEOPLE ARE WATCHING NOW AND THEY SAY, "ALL RIGHT.

I WANT TO DO SOMETHING "ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT I'M JUST ONE PERSON.

I DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES BILL GATES HAS," WHAT CAN ANY AVERAGE PERSON DO TO HAVE SOME IMPACT ON CLIMATE CHANGE IN YOUR VIEW?

GATES: WELL, CERTAINLY, THEY CAN TAKE THINGS LIKE THESE NEW MEAT PRODUCTS OR HOW THEY BUY ELECTRICITY, AND THEY CAN HELP DRIVE UP THE SCALE OF THE GREEN SOLUTIONS.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING AT THIS STAGE IS THEIR POLITICAL VOICE.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEED TO PUT SUBSTANTIAL RESOURCES INTO THIS EFFORT, AND WE'LL NEED A BIPARTISAN SOLUTION, AND TO SEND THE RIGHT SIGNAL TO THE MARKET, YOU ACTUALLY DON'T-- IF YOU JUST WIN ONE YEAR AND THEN IT GETS REPEALED, THAT DOESN'T HELP AT ALL.

THE KEY IS WHAT PEOPLE SEE THE POLICIES WILL BE OVER THE NEXT 30 YEARS ON A CONSISTENT BASIS, AND THAT MEANS IT'S A MUCH HIGHER BAR THAN JUST A ONE-TIME VICTORY.

♪ ♪ ♪ ANNOUNCER: SUPPORT FOR THE PBS PRESENTATION