>> Major funding for "Reporters Roundtable with David Cruz" is provided by rwjbarnabus health.

Rowan University educating New Jersey leaders.

Partnering with New Jersey businesses.

Transforming New Jersey's future.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey business magazine.

The magazine with the New Jersey business and industry Association.

Reporting to leaders in all 21 counties of the Garden State since 1954.

And by Politico's New Jersey playbook.

A topical newsletter on Garden State politics.

Online at Politico.com.

♪ David: To fee or not to fee?

It is "Reporters Roundtable," I am David Cruz.

On our panel today, Nancy Solomon, Senior reporter for WNYC.

P. Kenneth Burns of WHYY.

An Brent Johnson, politics reporter for NJ advanced media.

We begin today with more reaction to the governor's budget address this week.

The headline was the so-called corporate transit fee which only looks a little bit like the corporate business tax surcharge that it kind of replaces.

The business community does not dig the tax/fee for any number of reasons.

We will find out what some of those are as we welcome the president and CEO of the New Jersey business and industry Association.

Hello, good to see you.

Welcome.

>> Good morning.

Great to see you as well.

David: Before we get into the corporate transit fee, let me get your impressions of the speech in general and what was in it specifically that you might have liked and what specifically, aside from the transit fee, that you did not like.

Michele: It is very difficult to say there are things in this budget that we like.

It is hard to get over the gate of that 20% increase to New Jersey's largest employers here in the state of New Jersey.

2.5% is a 20% increase.

That stifles everything else in the room.

Can you feel good about the fact we are fully funding education?

Maybe we could but the formula is broken.

There are at least 14 districts that will have a decrease in funding.

Do we feel good about the fact that we take care of pension obligation?

We always do but it what expense are we taking care of some of these things?

Let's talk about long-term sustainability.

This budget has no vision, no big picture, it is plugging holes that do not exist today.

We are saving for things that will not be there by the time to come for us to deliver.

A lot of things to be frustrated on, David.

I have a tough time feeling good about this budget by any means.

David: I and getting that sense from you, Michele.

Let's hear the governor on the transit fee, which he said for the end of his speech.

>> Today we are proposing a corporate transit fee that will provide a funding stream for NJ transit at no additional cost to working families.

[APPLAUSE] With this fee, we will ask the biggest corporations with net incomes bigger than $10 million to support NJ transit's future.

David: That did not even get a lot of applause from Democrats.

I assume you will call this a tax.

Is this a broken promise by the governor?

Michele: Absolutely it is a broken promise.

For the past year, the governor has emphatically stated that we must sunset the corporate business tax.

He recognized and acknowledged New Jersey is a high-cost state in which to do business.

He recognized when it comes to sunsetting the corporate business tax, we should be cold-blooded about our strategy.

He said that two weeks ago.

My goodness, what happened in two weeks?

It is an about-face that is terrible policy.

It goes beyond just the tax itself.

It sends a clear and disturbing message to our business community of today and anyone who might be potential company looking at New Jersey that we cannot rely on the word or the promises made of our policymakers.

Therefore business cannot have predictability, they cannot make investments they can count on, and we cannot trust the word of the policymakers.

That is the biggest issue with this right now.

David: The administration is actually calling it a tax cut because it affects companies with profits over $10 million as opposed to what it was before, $1 million.

What do you think the impact will be for business and consumers, if any?

Michele: It impacts everyone.

First of all, I do want to bring up the fact that to say the other businesses got a tax cut is totally disingenuous.

That was a surcharge on the corporate business tax that for years the business community was told you are not going to have to pay that in the future, OK?

They were overpaying.

Now we told him to stop overpaying.

There is no tax cut for these businesses, let's be very clear.

Who is affected?

The whole economy is affected.

You have 600 job creators that represent tens of thousands of jobs across New Jersey.

They will not be able to take that money that they otherwise would have had in their pocket to reinvest in their workforce and Company.

Anytime they have more expense on one side it comes out in other ways.

It will come out to the consumer, although small and medium-sized businesses in the supply chain, it will have a negative impact.

Let me say one more thing David -- we have proof from other states that when you drive corporate business tax down you increase economic opportunity and so many other ways that it balances out and our neighbor to the west got that.

Pennsylvania is on the trajectory to bring their CBT down to 5% at the same time funding separate from that.

David: That is there New Jersey transit.

We always hear about taxes like this, how they will scare business away and how they will kill jobs, but is there any real evidence that, for instance, the corporate business tax surcharge caused any kind of mass exodus of business?

Michele: David, we have seen outmigration in the state of New Jersey for a decade.

We study this consistently.

We talk to our businesses every day.

If they are not moving their company, they are not growing here.

Let's not talk about those who might pick up and leave like many of those who did over the last decade-plus.

Our Fortune 500 companies have shrunk in New Jersey.

This is not just Governor Murphy, this is over 10 years-plus.

That.

we have seen outmigration we should be concerned when we do not see the same companies, the big corporations growing in New Jersey, they choose to grow outside New Jersey.

Pharma, we might still have R&D in New Jersey but when they are going to manufacturing facilities, they are going to the more affordable states.

This is a lack of competitiveness in our region and nationally for these companies.

David: Let me get a question from our panelist, Nancy Solomon.

You had a question?

Nancy: Sure.

Hi, Michele.

What would you suggest the governor due to fund New Jersey transit?

Where would the revenue come from or what would you suggest he did to pay for New Jersey transit?

Michele: Thank you, Nancy.

There are a few aspects to that.

We did hear the governor say numerous times that they will look at the expenses associate with New Jersey transit.

We have not seen that happen so we do not know if the cost looking to be funded is a real cost or not.

There was federal money that into NJ Transit and there is still the chance for other money to come to NJ Transit.

We had to take a holistic book at NJ Transit and say what is working?

What is broken?

What are their expenses look like NY?

Let's understand what the funding of NJ Transit looks like.

Ridership is still down 20% since pre-pandemic.

Is governor said he is dedicating the tax to NJ Transit.

The only way it is dedicated is if there is a law that dedicates it.

A constitutional amendment to dedicate.

We already have other legislators saying once we get this money, maybe we will not use it for transit.

Let's remember, transit does not need this money 18 months more now.

$1 billion of money that could stay in the pocket of New Jersey business to invest in the next year, we are grabbing 18 months early and will stick it in surplus or use it somewhere else.

David: Michele Siekerka, president and CEO of the -- thank you for taking a few minutes with us.

Michele: Thank you so much, David.

David: Alright panel, Nancy, Kenneth, Brent, good to see you all.

Let's start with this budget speech.

Nancy, he has gotten much better at delivering speeches like this.

Your impressions on substance and style?

Nancy: Yeah, I agree, he has gotten better and it seems like a more authentic Governor Murphy that we have gotten to know when he gives these big speeches.

I think, clearly, the NJ Transit tax or fee, whatever you want to call it, is the huge news out of the speech.

I would also say he has been talking for a while, ever since he came close to losing his reelection in 2021, he has been talking about affordability.

He got the message loud and clear.

And property taxes.

This was a big theme of his speech.

I do not really see it.

I do not see where the anchor text rebate does help some people, but I do not see that he is really cracking that problem.

I am not sure that it can be cracked.

He is saying good things about affordability but does this budget really deliver on affordability?

I am not convinced.

David: At the same time he says it is all about affordability he also admits New Jersey is a high cost state.

Having his cake and eating it, too.

Kenny, thoughts?

Kenneth: I agree with Nancy.

He learned his lesson from 2021 talking about affordability.

The other stuff sounds good but I can see the Republicans and the business community making the argument it is not much of anything.

In fact I want to touch on something that Michele said.

She said the budget had no vision.

Some would argue a budget is not supposed to have a vision.

It is a mission or value statement.

The vision was the state of the state address.

We heard his vision two months ago.

Now we are seeing where he is placing money and values for the next year.

David: Brent, your thoughts?

Brent: I think we are in a tough economic time in the world and the state and this was a bit of a sign of that.

The spending went up but not a crazy amount.

The surplus went down.

In the end, you did not see the sales tax increase and the gas tax was not addressed.

Maybe next year might be the doomsday budget.

This one was kind of somewhere in between.

There will be a fight in the coming months with lawmakers over how much this new fee for corporations goes and how much goes into it, whether it goes to NJ Transit or there is more money for the senior property tax cut, that is heralded by the state assembly speaker who has also considered running for governor.

There could be a fight in the coming months.

A state shutdown could be bandied about but that gives thrown around -- that gets thrown around.

We will know by June 30.

David: The lefty industrial complex from policy perspective to make the road, others are hard on restoring the corporate business tax surcharge.

They got a corporate transit fee .

Are they feeling pretty good about that?

Nancy: I think they are happy with it.

They have released statements they are happy with it.

Some members of the coalition, like transit advocates, are talking about not being happy with the 15% fare hike will still stand under the current plan.

There is some unhappiness with that and a mixed result but that.

Listen, this is -- you talk about vision and politics and what really stands behind this budget, the left of center side of the equation is happy to see what is essentially a progressive tax.

You're talking about requiring the most with the ability to pay, corporations with more than $10 million a year in profits, to pay for NJ Transit.

That is a progressive tax.

It is not raising property taxes, it is not raising the sales tax or the price of gasoline.

Yes, there is happiness with that.

For people who support that set of politics, Murphy came up with kind of a split the baby Solomon-esque -- not me Solomon, the Bible Solomon -- solution.

I cannot understand for the life of me why he went through all the criticism of cutting the business surcharge and then reinstating it.

You must have a reason.

David: You talk about that 15%, there is also that 3% forever.

That is another thing.

Nancy: Yes.

David: For a lot of these dedicated taxes, we heard Michele say the CTF Dedication is subject to legislative approval.

We did not hear a lot of applause for that during the speech.

What are we hearing from lawmakers on that?

Brent: We spoke to the state Senate budget share after the speech.

.

He said this is one thing we have been looking at.

The assembly speaker said if we are going to do something like this, I want more money for property taxes.

I do not know if this will end up in Jude the exact way the governor laid it out.

You will probably associate fee on businesses.

The state Senate President wanted that reinstated.

You will probably see some version of this.

I do not know how much money will go to NJ Transit or property tax relief.

These negotiations will be robust, especially in the final few weeks when we are all wondering if we will be stuck inside the State on July 4.

David: That is your second reference to a government shutdown, stop it.

Brent: It is so hot, we have to wait outside for these leaders to come.

Someone wants to wear shorts.

[LAUGHTER] David: It was on this very show, "Reporters Roundtable."

We try to erase that from her memory but thanks for bringing it up.

There is also talk of sales tax increase and we have to maybe see a gas tax increase because of the transportation trust fund needing to be re-upped.

Kenny, I saw you at the Republican response.

What did they have to say about the budget?

Kenneth: They said it was Rosie.

[LAUGHTER] They said it was rosey but they do not think that it will be fully funded.

They believe there are hidden taxes, hidden tax sites within the budget -- hidden tax hikes within the budget.

They said they want to bipartisan, transparent solution.

And by transparent they mean what we normally do not see, which is the three top leaders behind closed doors trying to hash out their differences.

They want to provide input into this budget.

How they provide that input, that remains to be seen if they are even allowed.

But they will use the bully pulpit.

You saw a lot of that right after the budget speech.

David: I think, also, for the sake of transparency, have those three guys make their decisions but have them do it live on TV.

Kenneth: NJPBS maybe?

David: We Are for that.

Kenneth: [LAUGHTER] David: A lot is happening in the U.S. Democratic primary.

Tammy Murphy is out with a new ad targeting the NRA.

Andy Kim is suing to erase the county line.

The big Bergen County is coming up.

Pick one of those and add your own to update us on the race at the moment, Nancy.

Nancy: This is a very exciting and amazing moment in New Jersey politics.

I think this race is so interesting.

The fact that this county line, this obscure feature that is so behind the scenes and politics but rarely come through to the public's understanding of it is really getting the attention it deserves.

Here we have a fight over endorsements by the county Democratic Party committees and those endorsements create this line on the ballot county by county of who is seen as the legitimate Democrats who run under President Biden for the primary, this is what the fight is about.

We are seeing national press about it.

Those of us who cover politics have been talking about the importance of the county line for a while and it is kind of exciting for it to become an actual issue where people are arguing about it.

What you see is, also, this kind of rank-and-file revolt among the members of the Democratic Party in these committees where they are actually allowed to vote, bigger committees do not allow it, except her Bergen County.

We are seeing this revolt.

They are supporting Andy Kim.

Kim has taken on the mantle of political reform in a way that Tammy Murphy and Phil Murphy have not.

It has made it such an interesting race.

David: Candy, it seems like everyone hates the light -- Kenny, it seems like everyone hates the line until it is their s. Gubernatorial candidates, Steve Sweeney, not so much.

Is this the year that it dies?

Kenneth: Before I comment, just because we have to do the right thing, president of the New Jersey Society of journalists, we spoke out in favor of -- they are suing the mayor, his spokesperson because of freezing them out of press conferences.

I would dare say that he is jumping on the Andy Kim bandwagon because Andy Kim, along with others, they really kicked the door open on this issue.

They asked everyone to go with office blocks as opposed to the party line.

Granted Andy Kim has claimed three of those lines.

Now you have the mayor jump again, asking his gubernatorial candidates to push to forgo the line.

He is trying to be one of the cool kids, let's the honest.

David, YouSendIt, Steve Sweeney, not so much.

Tammy Murphy, not so much.

That shows you how much in the Democratic party we are seeing a battle between the establishment and the grassroots.

David: We should also say that a lot of people who are against the line used to be for the line.

What is the famous line?

I was for it before I was against it?

Kenneth: Something like that.

[LAUGHTER] David: How big is the Bergen convention?

Brent: This is a big deal because it is where the race divides.

Andy Kim has won early conventions were rank-and-file members vote.

Rank-and-file members will also vote in Bergen.

It is one of the bigger lines that Tammy Murphy is expected to claim.

If she wins, Becca differ campaign momentum -- if she wins, that could give her campaign momentum.

If Andy Kim wins, that would be a major blow to the first lady.

One person called it the Super Bowl of the race.

David: Will the line died a sheer?

Kenneth: No.

Brent: No.

Nancy: I don't know but I think if it does -- Kenneth: That is three words, Nancy.

Nancy: It will change New Jersey politics forever.

Brent: That is true.

David: Everyone will just use more than one word now, huh?

Let's get some discipline on this panel.

[LAUGHTER] Time for our only New Jersey notes.

Nancy, you have one?

Nancy: A Democratic committee convention last Sunday just blew my mind.

What you has was a real secret ballot vote for who they want to endorse between Tammy Murphy and Andy Kim.

The room definitely seemed to be going toward Kim and then the chair of the committee stood up and said we have decided, the executive committee has decided that anyone who gets 30% or more of the vote will share the line, which is of course n what is not happening in the big counties.

That was just such a raw exercise of political power by the Murphys and the county chairs of the Democratic Party.

That is my only in New Jersey.

David: I am told there was profanity used, as well.

Brent, do you have one for us?

Brent: I wanted to introduce everyone to Carter.

My wife gave birth to our second son and I wanted to say hi to him.

Our daughter is a loving big sister.

There is my dog barking in the background.

That is Hodges.

The best to my newly grown family.

David: Wholesome, we love it.

Mine comes from Jersey City, where a recent count found the cannabis capital of New Jersey.

The city has six cannabis dispensaries.

Can we call them stores now?

That is the most of any city in the state.

The findings are hazy because the real cannabis capital of the state has to be Mount Holly in Burlington.

Yes, they have just four weed stores but with a population of around 10,000, that is one for every 2500 residents.

Jersey City has 292,000 residents and six weed shops, that is just one for every 48,000 residents.

Here is to not Holly for being ousted out the most potent pot purveying municipality in the garden state.

That is roundtable for this week.

Good to see you all.

Thanks also to Michele Siekerka for joining us.

You can follow the show on X, and find more stuff, including full episodes, when you scan the QR code on your screen.

.

I am David Cruz.

For the entire crew in downtown Neward, thank you for watching.

>> Major funding for "Reporters Roundtable with David Cruz" is provided by RWJBarnabas health.

Rowan University.

Educating New Jersey leaders.

Partnering with New Jersey businesses.

Transforming New Jersey future.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey business magazine.

The magazine of the New Jersey business and industry Association, reporting to executive and legislative leaders in all 21 counties of the garden state since 1954.

And by Politico's New Jersey playbook.

.

A topical newsletter on garden state politics, online at Politico.com.

♪