We're continuing our discussion on the roles of black churches, present and future.

That's this week on Nevada Week.

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(Kipp Ortenburger) Two months ago, we sat down with a panel of local pastors to collectively discuss the roles past, present and future of black churches in Southern Nevada.

You can view this episode on-demand by visiting vegaspbs.org/nevada-week and search for "Equity in Las Vegas: "The Role of Black Churches."

Well, since that conversation, COVID-related restrictions have laxed, allowing for in-person worship, with news this week of almost full COVID-19 restrictions lifted on May 1, which will allow for full capacity, in-person worship.

But disparities in vaccination rates exist in populations of color, and there may be some concern still for a complete return to normalcy.

On this show, we're going to take a deeper dive into the churches' roles related to some of these issues.

We'll also turn our attention to the future and our pastors' vision and planning for the post-COVID era and beyond.

Joining us for this discussion, please welcome Reverend Dr. Karen Denise Anderson from the First African Methodist Episcopal Church; Reverend Clayton D. Moore from the Second Baptist Church, and Reverend Kelsey Anderson West from Nehemiah Ministries.

Pastor West, Pastor Anderson and Pastor Moore, thank you so much for joining us; we really appreciate it.

Unfortunately Pastor Bowen, who was here for our part one, could not be here but we really appreciate having the three of you back.

And let's talk about the most recent news here, very exciting news but could bring some trepidation I'm sure.

Full reopening is scheduled for May 1.

That does affect places of worship; places of worship can go back to full capacity.

I want to get your thoughts, your feelings and your reactions to this.

Pastor West, let's start with you.

(Rev.

Kelcey West) Well, good morning.

Listen, we are excited to learn that we are progressing as a city.

Here at Nehemiah Ministries, we're still going to proceed with caution.

We have an amazing COVID team, and we've decided that we're going to still operate at about 30% capacity.

We have still received-- we're still receiving mixed reactions to the vaccination.

We're still receiving feedback from our parishioners that they're just not quite psychologically ready to return to in-person worship.

So we're just going to continue to proceed with caution.

-Pastor Anderson, let's get your perspective on that.

So parishioners are a little bit cautious, and that's being incorporated obviously into Pastor West's integration of a larger congregation.

What are you seeing?

(Rev.

Karen Anderson) Thank you so much and good morning.

I am in total agreement with Pastor West.

We have a team that has been looking at how do we reopen safely, so even though we have from the governor we'll reopen on May 1, our target date even for our true in-person is not until June, and even that will be at about 30%.

There's so much to think about when we think about reopening the church.

How do you sanitize and clean all these different surfaces that you have?

How do you ensure that people are safe when they come in?

How do you protect the church?

The reality is we also have to look at risk management, so we have to also have some policies and procedures in place, you know, that dictate how we clean, how often we clean, how do we allow people in, how do we move them in and out.

It requires training.

You have to train your ushers now, you know, if we're still-- because we're going to maintain distance.

I don't know about Pastor West, you know, but in my church we have people that say "this is my seat."

They may not be able to sit in their seat anymore.

So we're planning to roll it out slowly, and we're even thinking of doing a short video.

You know, like one of those "This is what the new "walking into church looks like."

So we're grateful the city is opening up, and we hope it's a blessing to the economy.

We're grateful we'll be able to come back, but we are proceeding with caution.

-And so fascinating to think of those logistics that you need to incorporate.

They're not only of course the restrictions and the risk management that you mentioned, but the personalities of your parishioners and things like having their own specific seat.

Pastor Moore, I want to get your perspective as well too.

First off, are you looking at a measured reopening as well, and give us some perspective also on kind of the feelings and thoughts of your congregation as well.

(Rev.

Clayton Moore) We have had what we would consider a soft opening.

We have a minimum amount in the sanctuary currently; however, I too want to proceed with caution as well as recognizing that while the COVID virus has maybe not had a devastating effect in the majority culture, it has had a very tremendous effect in the black community.

So we'll put it this way: If the larger culture has a cold, the black community has the flu.

So we want to certainly find out how many of our persons are comfortable with coming, and then if they're not, enabling them not to feel guilty in that they're trying to be cautious.

How many of us have actually had the two vaccination shots and are still willing to wear our masks, still need to be willing to be social distancing.

Sometimes opening up may be, let's be honest, church, particularly in my cultural context, can be a super-spreader.

We want to be cautious with that.

We want to be wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove.

And the reality being that we need to perhaps market our church in such a way that lets the people know, as Pastor Anderson pointed out, this is the policy and the procedure now.

If you're going to come, let's be honest, we love visitors, love visitors, and yet visitors could pose a threat now, to be quite frank with you.

We don't know who our visitors are when we have that data, so I'm currently asking our membership to register.

If they're inviting family and friends to register, and we ask a series of questions that hopefully-- the temperature checks will still take place.

Have you been in contact with anyone with COVID to your knowledge, things of that nature.

So while we're saying we're going to open up, we're going to still maintain caution and approach this in a way that's going to be healthy for the church and our community as a whole.

We certainly want everyone to feel comfortable when they come back to the sanctuary, but not so much to the point of no mask.

We're just not ready for that yet.

I think it will be a while before we're ready for that yet.

-It's not a free for all, that's what I'm hearing from all three of you, and comfortability and trust are two big things that seem to be very important, very tantamount here.

I want to bring the conversation to the vaccination rates.

There is a disparity in black and African American populations here in Clark County.

Just to give you a reference point, 9% of our overall Clark County population are black and African American residents.

About 5.5% right now of the total population that have taken the vaccine are black and African Americans.

So about a three or four-point difference.

What's the role of the church here, or the role of you as a pastor, to inform or support your members in potentially taking the vaccine when we're talking about comfortability and trust being the tantamount aspects there?

Pastor West, how do you approach that?

-My primary job as a pastor, I am a deliverer of facts.

That's my job as a pastor.

So what we have done throughout this entire pandemic was just share facts and then allow people to make the best decision that they can for themselves and their household.

One of the things that we have to continue, that I, me personally as a pastor, I have to continue to make people feel comfortable in their decision.

So I don't want coming to church to be a peer pressure, I don't want the vaccination to be a peer pressure coming from the pulpit because that's something you have to really make that decision for yourself.

And so our Zoom meetings, we brought in experts.

We've invited people to attend other informational sessions just so people would have as much information as possible.

For myself, I will say this: I did take both shots; I've been vaccinated.

It would be difficult for me to ask my staff and parishioners to do it if I didn't first do it.

So that's my position, and then after that statement, I've yielded to just delivering facts.

-Pastor Anderson, I want to get your take on this too.

-Yes, I agree with Pastor West.

It's facts, it's offering information, it's making resources available.

It's very understandable in our community.

From a historical standpoint, you have people that are very leery of a vaccine that was created so quickly, honestly.

You know, we still remember-- and some of our members are old enough that they were, you know, very intricately aware of the Tuskegee vaccination, and so they're a little hesitant.

The other role is that, you know, I let people know I took it.

I took pictures, put it on our Facebook page, you know, Pastor got the first shot.

Pastor got the second shot.

I think that I have a little bit of trust with the congregation because I also have a background in health.

I'm also a registered nurse, so they're able to come to me with some questions when they really want to know do you think it's safe, do you think I should take it, and we can talk it through.

We can talk through the fact that yes, it was created pretty quickly, but honestly research has been done for years on COVID, this is just COVID-19.

This is not the beginning of COVID.

So, you know, there are safety issues, but we're also honest.

You may have a reaction.

I didn't, some people do.

But we also talk about the fact of minimizing risk and that the vaccine does not protect you 100% from getting COVID.

It may however prevent you from going in the hospital and ending up on a ventilator.

So as Pastor West said, it's being honest.

I think honesty is, you know, absolutely key when we're dealing with something so new that people are not able to do.

We have to be 100% honest, and then I do believe what he said.

We cannot stigmatize people who desire not to take it.

It is a personal choice.

We cannot say you can't come to church if you don't have a vaccine.

That's discriminatory practices so we have to-- that's why I think it's so important to slowly phase back into church because you are going to have some who are going to come who were vaccinated, and you're going to have some who are going to come who are absolutely not going to be vaccinated.

So we have to be prepared on both ends, but we also must make the environment warm and welcoming so that no one feels they're being excluded or stigmatized.

It is a personal choice.

I think we can help.

We can get the information out.

-Yes, a warm and welcoming environment and getting the information out, the two keys there.

And warm and welcoming environment, so important when you have a congregation, a population in general here, dealing with so much change.

Pastor Moore, that's something you brought up in the last show.

I have a quote here I wanted to read.

You said we have to learn this curve, and this curve is always changing.

We are in somewhat of a reopening phase here.

Our state has allowed gatherings up to 50% or 250 people.

As you mentioned, you've done a soft opening, and I wanted to ask you specifically related to that change, are there things or are there aspects of a Sunday worship, let's say, that aren't going to come back?

-Not at the current setting, under this cautious movement, the way we do communion is vastly different.

As of right now, we're going to maintain our social distancing.

So things might not be the norm for a little while.

Until we come to the realization that until everyone is comfortable, and then I'll have to be personally honest with you, until I am comfortable with doing some things, and I'm not going to ask anyone to do something that I'm not willing to do.

I have taken the shot.

I've taken both.

I did have a small reaction to the second shot, tried to hydrate, do everything.

But I found it quite interesting also too that they gave us a card authenticating that we've had our shot.

So I think there's some realities that we've got to deal with.

I remember going to school.

If I didn't have immunizations, I was told you have to get your shots.

Universities are going to require their students to make sure that they've had vaccinations and things of that nature.

So I think the church should model it.

I try to model it the best I can.

Worship may not be the same for a little while.

We'd do the traditional marching around and you see your communion elements, we can't do that right now.

That's not safe.

And that means experiencing God in a different way rather than our normal liturgy, our normal customary marching, embracing one another, hugging one another, that will be different for a little while, and it's for the greater good, for one's health.

So I think our society will have to make a shift, and I don't think that's necessarily a black church experience, it's even in the majority culture experience.

You go to their churches, they are just as social as we are, and I'm sure that's going to change.

So we'll have to remain cautious.

Hopefully, we can find God in an unusual-- in a different way now, which I think stretches our faith and requires us to know God is not just God in this platform, God is God in every platform.

It requires us to be a little more inclusive as well and accepting.

There might be some members that say I'm not ever taking the shot.

That is their choice, and I still have to serve as their pastor but I'll serve as their pastor with a caution.

I know they have not had their shot, that's their prerogative, but please don't become offended if I'm masked and I'm gloved.

That's just how that will work out.

-Pastor West, I want to come to you also and talk a little bit about the change here.

You are also conducting in-person worship now.

What has changed?

Are there things that again, you don't think are going to come back?

-I think after a year of virtual church, I think after a year of the change, I think how we have held church services is different.

I don't know right now if we will be able to-- let me just share this.

Some of us, history said our services were 2, 2-1/2 hours.

I don't know if that's coming back.

I don't know if the multiple services like we once did, I don't know if that's coming back.

Some of us, our Sundays were 8, 11, 3, 6, 9 p.m.

I don't know if that rotation is coming back because right now, people have grown accustomed to over the year of being able to attend church virtually.

I think what COVID has done for the church, and I pray my fellow pastors don't-- not on this panel, but those who are watching worldwide will not take this the wrong way-- I think COVID has helped give us-- it has improved our quality of life, and I say that simply to say we have always needed a balance.

So what we're seeing right now is just how do I love God, how do I be a part of the church, but at the same time, how do I have family time?

So I think COVID has done that for us, and I don't think we should remove that-- we should be so quick to remove that.

People are now-- I'm seeing more family time, and I'm applauding that.

I'm seeing people embrace technology who were once anti-technology.

So I do believe this is one where all things are going to work together for the good, but there will be some major changes.

-Pastor Anderson, I want your perspective too, being that of the three panelists here, you do not have in-person worship going on right now which gives you the opportunity to design this.

As Pastor West mentioned there, a lot of benefits, a lot of opportunities.

We talked about that on the previous show that with some of the challenges, new opportunities have opened.

Pastor West just so eloquently mentioned one right there.

Let's talk specifically to you.

You had said on the first show that there's going to be change within your church.

How do you think your church will change over the next three or four months when we go into reopening and you start phasing in in-person worship?

-Well, I think part of it is going to be again, people have gotten used to online worship, so one of the things we're doing is surveying the congregation saying to them, if we put these in place, how willing are you to return?

And we're getting ready to do it.

I've been working with some colleagues within my denomination, and on average, the response rate for that is about 30 to 35% of people who are willing to return right now to the sanctuary.

Most are like we're going to be at home.

It has caused us to be more intentional in developing our worship service because we understand that people are not going to sit on Zoom or Facebook or stream for 2-1/2 to 3 hours.

So we've had to be very intentional about how we design worship.

I don't think that's going to change.

I like it as well.

I think there's a wonderful flow.

I think there were times we had a lot of-- I don't want to be offensive-- fluff in our worship service.

It was one thing we didn't-- you know, it was tradition, and we did it, and sometimes we didn't know why we did all the extra.

You know, it's kind of like that old story of the lady who always cut both ends off of a roast before she cooked it.

And somebody said well, why do you do it, and she said well, my mother and grandmother always did it.

So one day she asked.

She said mom, grandma, why did you do it?

She said because we never had a pan big enough.

She said we never had a pan so we cut the ends off.

So even though now she had a pan big enough, she still cut the ends off because it was tradition.

So there are some things, particularly in a church, we are Methodist so there is a method.

There is a liturgy, there is an order of worship that sometimes we don't need all of that, I'll be honest, and we've learned that we don't need all of that in order to have a spirit-filled worship service, so I think some of those things will change.

I think one of the ways, we were a very touchy feely church, right?

So you had a moment of greeting and hugging.

I don't know that that will come back.

We had a time, I don't know about your churches, pastors, but sometimes, I was like are you all going home?

You know, worship would be over, everybody's hanging out in the overflow and hanging out in the parking lot.

But I think this idea of increased family time has been absolutely a blessing.

In so many families, we live in a rush-rush society.

Everything is immediate here.

We're coming, we're going.

We got away from family dinners and breakfasts together, and COVID has allowed us to reconnect with family, and not just family here.

You know, when you have family across the country now who can participate in your worship or watch you and call you and say hey, I worshipped with you today, sis.

That has been a true blessing, and it's something that I know we will continue.

We didn't have an online presence before, but I don't see us ever going back to not having one.

-Pastor Moore, I want to get your perspective here too.

So many interesting things that Pastor Anderson said there.

I want to come back to the traditions of what a normal worship would be or a normal church would be here.

And now we are incorporating so much new innovation and reinvention here.

But there's still some of those traditions that I know you hold really strong and will probably not change.

How do you integrate both of those, the traditional side and being able to bring in this innovative side?

-I think it has to take an approach of a balance to realize that technology is neither anti-, it's just a tool that we can use effectively.

One of the areas that I really think we'll have to make a tremendous adjustment to is what we call Sunday school, aka Christian education, how you want to do it.

Physical plans will perhaps limit how we do Sunday school, and that was a foundational part of my matriculating as a Christian.

Sunday school will have to be vastly different based upon space, and I think an online platform may very well be the way to go.

And I have to remind the church that the church existed for millennia before Sunday school was instituted.

And we have to learn, and I think that's an opportunity for family time, or, you know, we have this covenant that we have that we say we would have devotion at home and that we will train up our children in the ways of God and educate them.

It's going to become a necessity that we do that, and I hope that can be more of a home experience, rather than coming to the sanctuary or coming to the physical plant to do that because it may very well not be advantageous to do it because of the space constraints and time.

You know, it was not unusual at Second Baptist Church for people to get here as early as 6:30 in the morning, ready for 8 o'clock worship for a seat, and then right after 8 o'clock worship, they went right to Sunday school.

Well, that's not happening.

Our Sunday school is no longer capable due to the COVID situation and our restraints.

So we'll have to have a better approach, and I think it's going to be incumbent upon the church to produce quality material online and try to make it as engaging and interactive as we can.

Recently, we did our first virtual revival, and it was an experience.

I hope it worked, time will tell, but we had a hybrid model: there were some in the sanctuary, some online.

So that's something that we'll have to do because revivals have always been a part of what we consider the Black Missionary Baptist Church.

You know, we do that, and how we do that will be different.

-And Pastor West, I want to get your perspective here too.

We're obviously transitioning more to the long-term vision, and long-term vision being that a lot of the things that are being incorporated now virtually could make things a lot more efficient, could make things-- potentially you could access a much wider audience here.

When you're looking down the road past COVID, past recovery here, what's your vision for the church?

-Let me say it this way: This is about to be our finest hour.

I believe it.

When we think about the mandate to go ye therefore, we are now capable of going to that mindset, to that principle virtually.

Right now on Sunday mornings, we are reaching people we weren't reaching pre-COVID.

So right now what I see let's say in three years is an entire virtual ministry within our ministry.

I need an entire-- I have to duplicate what I once did within the physical church.

I now have to do that in the virtual world.

Virtually, I don't have a clue while I'm preaching who's now pulling in from another country which means now we have to raise up.

We have to invite people who speak different languages, which we saw in the book of Acts.

So it's not something that we're foreign to, it has happened before.

This is going to be our finest hour.

We're going to reach more people than we've ever reached before.

This is going to challenge us to share resources and to come together even more.

Our five-year plan is just to become more multicultural and to become more missionary in our not just annual thoughts, but in our day-to-day thoughts.

-Thank you always for joining us this week on Nevada Week.

Again, if you'd like to watch part one of this discussion, visit our website at vegaspbs.org/nevada-week and search for "Equity in Las Vegas: "The Role of Black Churches."

You can also visit that website for any resources discussed on the show, and of course you can also find us on social media at @nevadaweek.

Thanks again, and we'll see you next week.

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