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>> Tom Layson: Tacoma and Pierce County have come a long way in the past 50 years.

And while political influence ebbs and flows, diverse leaders are emerging in media, the city, and state politics.

Tonight, our discussion with Tacoma Mayor Victoria Woodards, KBTC General Manager DeAnne Hamilton, and 28th Legislative District Senator T'wina Nobles.

The intersection of politics and media in the context of leadership next on Northwest Now.

[ Music ] It might seem logical that history has been a focus of several Northwest Now programs celebrating Black History Month but tomorrow's history is made in the present and access to leadership roles is an important element of how the history of tomorrow is shaped.

When it comes to things like the role of the media, voting rights, health and wellness, which by the way is the theme of this year's celebration, who makes the rules and sets the policy matters.

Joining us now are Tacoma Mayor Victoria Woodards; DeAnne Hamilton, the General Manager here at KBTC; and Tacoma Urban League President and 28th District Freshman Senator T'wina Nobles.

Welcome all of you to Northwest Now.

Great to have a conversation about leadership and the roles you play in leadership both here locally and at the state level and for you DeAnne, frankly region-wide because of the reach of KBTC.

I want to talk a little bit first about the political and social environment today and overcoming divisiveness.

And I'll start with you Victoria.

How do you overcome divisiveness with your leadership skills?

>> Ms. Woodards: You know it's really difficult, but I think the most important thing is that people get divisive when they don't feel like they're being heard.

And I think if everyone feels heard and respected when they are being heard then I think that makes a difference.

Case in point, when we have our community forums, before I came on as mayor, they got to be really divisive to a point that they shut them down for a period of time.

And what I found over the years is that when people come to testify, if I say -- if I call them by their name, I say thank you for your comments and respect them, then it really -- people will be a little less divisive but I think just the world we're in right now, the issues are so polarizing as well.

>> Tom Layson: DeAnne, the media is everybody's favorite punching bag of course and you go to a cocktail party and you tell them, "Hey, I'm the general manager of a TV station."

I'm sure that can be difficult sometimes.

What are your thoughts about bridging that gap, overcoming divisiveness, and what kind of leadership tools do you use to address that?

>> Ms. Hamilton: I think I have to agree with the mayor that people want to be heard.

They need to be heard, and they have to be their authentic voices.

You can't speak for me and I can't speak for you.

We have to speak for ourselves.

And if we give people an opportunity to do that, and I think that the media, at least public media, provides that opportunity for people to be heard and to share their thoughts and feelings and that's a way to bridge a gap but it's also a way to tell the story of people and their lives and the challenges that they're facing.

And if you listen to what people are saying, then I think you can begin to build that -- you know bridge that gap that does exist.

And it's tough right now.

It absolutely is tough but public media, and PBS has been doing this for 50 years, and we tell the truth.

We try to be as accurate as we possibly can and as fair as we possibly can.

That's important.

>> Tom Layson: T'wina, of course, Olympia is nothing but a center of harmony and joy, no divisiveness there.

How have you -- >> Ms. Nobles: None whatsoever.

>> Tom Layson: How have you dealt with that and how have you tried to lead your way through it?

>> Ms. Nobles: Yeah.

I wish I was adding something different than what has been stated by entering a new environment at the top of 2021, it was really important for me to listen to constituents, listen to my colleagues, learn about the issues and not come in because I had something to prove or was antsy to do something different.

But in order for me to really be a change agent, I needed to see what's going on.

What have been the challenges?

What solutions are we offering or have been already offered?

And I also agree with just the authenticity and love and respect.

You know the way that we communicate with constituents who write in to tell me that you know they are disappointed in you know any level of leadership or they want me to support or not support legislation, the way we respond absolutely matters.

And I always tell my team that, you know, folks do want to be heard.

They're sending an e-mail because they want their message to come across and we don't need to argue.

We don't need to place value but we do want to thank them for sharing their comment.

We want to show empathy.

But I think at a time of divisiveness, we need more love, more respect, more joy even in positions of leadership, even in state government.

>> Tom Layson: And even if they're disagreeing with positions -- you said you don't have an agenda but you're an advocate for foster care and you want police accountability.

Those can be divisive issues.

So how do you balance that trying to be this person that listens, is empathetic and hears and wants to bring people together but also standing up for your piece?

>> Ms. Nobles: Yeah.

Well, we talk about the issue.

Right?

We want to -- I think where we can agree is we want to attack the issue.

Are you [inaudible] experiencing foster care and not having their needs met.

They need savings accounts, our families who are receiving TANF.

They need more benefits so that they can afford diapers.

We tackle the issues instead of tackling people, at least that's my stance.

I'm not here to attack someone's character or judge everyone because they identify with the same political party but we can't deny that our community needs help right now moving through this pandemic, that they need housing, that they need more resources and that's what we all show up to Olympia to do.

>> Tom Layson: Victoria, I see you shaking your head over there.

>> Ms. Woodards: Well, yeah, because -- I mean, the reality is we're not always going to agree.

And what I have found just in my experience and as a leader that it isn't always about just agreeing; it's just acknowledging that you heard them and explaining why you feel the way you feel and why you're moving in the direction.

I think people appreciate you being upfront and honest with them even when you disagree but you don't have to be -- you can be on opposite ends.

As we always used to say in church, disagree without being disagreeable and I think that that's what's been my experience in the way that I've moved throughout my time in leadership in Tacoma.

It's just being honest.

I get and understand that you feel that way DeAnne.

I disagree with you and I'm sorry but this is the way I feel like I need to go right now.

And people will respect that.

And I've had people tell me, you know, I really disagreed with you on this issue but I really respect you for being honest and hearing me and that's all people really want.

>> Ms. Nobles: And I have to be even more careful because I'm a pandemic senator.

I've never worked -- like the pandemic babies we talk about.

I've never worked in my office in Olympia.

I've only done this behind a screen on my computer.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Nobles: So how I build relationship and introduce myself to community and hear their issues matters even more and so I have to be absolutely gentle and maybe even tackle issues differently than I would if we were in person and able to read body language.

>> Tom Layson: That's funny when you said it but there is so much truth to that because people can't get the subtleties of when you're giving them the business maybe a little and your -- you know that doesn't necessarily come through on Zoom.

>> Ms. Woodards: No, it doesn't.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Woodards: Yeah.

>> Tom Layson: That's a good point.

I want to talk a little bit about current events.

Start with you on this one DeAnne, and I want everybody to chime into it.

It's not a current event yet but we can see the -- you know we can see the handwriting on the wall and what's coming in the '22 and '24 elections.

What do you think your role is in terms of dealing with this divisiveness, preserving democracy, and engendering trust in our institutions?

And I know that's a lot to lay on somebody's doorstep, but you do have a role in it.

>> Ms. Hamilton: And guess who I work with?

I work with Tom Layson, and he does a weekly program and there will be things that you will be tackling but -- again, we provide a forum.

And we can pull programs and put on different discussion groups.

We can do it virtually.

We can do it on our broadcast air.

We can do it on our website, and it is taking a look at the truth and explaining to people what those issues are, that they may not agree with but if the facts are out there and we've given the facts as they should be given then people have somewhere to go and somewhere to inform themselves and they can make their own decisions, obviously.

It's up to them to make their own decision but we, as media professionals, need to provide them with the kinds of information that will help them make those informed decisions and that's the role that we play.

>> Tom Layson: Victoria, you know we live in the State of Washington but when you look down the road, are you nervous at all about '22 and '24?

>> Ms. Woodards: I'm always nervous, right?

I mean anything can happen.

We saw what happened five years ago and nobody would have anticipated, nobody in the circles that I talk to would have anticipated what happened, so you always have to be prepared.

But I think you know something that DeAnne said that's really important is that we have to provide the information.

Like from the city's perspective, I think it's my job to educate our community on the issues and what we're working on.

And the question is, as you look at election, who's going to best -- who's going to make sure that what our city wants -- who's going to best represent us and make sure that the issues we're trying to address get addressed on a local, state, and federal level and -- >> Tom Layson: Even more fundamentally, if the process is trustworthy.

>> Ms. Woodards: Absolutely.

>> Tom Layson: That the institutions that we've relied on are there to amplify our voices, not to restrict them.

>> Ms. Woodards: And we can't give up, right, because some of our institutions of our work-in-progress.

There are days at the city where things are great and there are days at the city when they're not so great but they're ran by human beings so we have to remember that.

But we're work-in-progress and every day we're striving to be better.

So I know it's really easy to lose faith and give up and lose hope but we've got to hang onto just a little bit of hope because if we can stay engaged and be a part of making the decisions for who will represent us and our issues, then we'll one day actually get what it is we've come for.

>> Tom Layson: And T'wina, for you too, State of Washington is in a good position.

We got to vote by mail.

We've had a series of good secretaries of state.

You know I don't suggest that '22 and '24 is necessarily going to land on our doorstep here in Washington state but if you look across the other states and other statehouses and other secretaries of state, do you worry at all about the institution of democracy?

And what are your thoughts about what small role a person like yourself might play in that?

>> Ms. Nobles: Yeah, I do worry.

And this weekend, in fact on the Tacoma Pierce County Black Collective meeting, we had the honor of listening to Congresswoman Strickland and the question was asked, what do we do here locally because we have the luxury of having what we feel is a secure, you know, voting system and great leadership but we still must do our job to ensure that as, you know, seats are opening up and folks are running for auditor and secretary of state positions that we are still protecting that democracy and making sure we have adequate leadership.

But also nationally we have a role and responsibility to tell our state leaders that we want to make sure that we can expand early voting, that we want to see more folks have mail-in ballots as we do our vote by mail as we do but we still want to do our part to protect voting rights across this country.

We don't get to sit back and relax because we're in a good position now.

We want to secure that position for Washington State's future.

>> Ms. Woodards: Well -- and Tom if I could just -- >> Tom Layson: Sure.

>> Ms. Woodards: -- jump in on that.

You know as the quote goes, I'm going to change it this morning but it's, you know, when that happens anywhere -- so injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

We know that quote and it's real because of it happens in Texas or down south, don't think that it's not going to make its way here.

We do have it good but people at some point are going to Washington and go, wait a second.

They've got too many rights.

They are doing things.

We're fortunate.

We have to stake our claim and hold where we are but as the senator said, and expand that, but we also have an obligation to make sure -- to look at what's happening across the country and be aware of that and continue to push back so that it doesn't come to Washington.

>> Tom Layson: One of the reasons I really like the composition of this panel is because politics and media are so -- you know intersect so frequently in all of this when we're talking about divisiveness and the faith in our institutions.

It really does land at your doorsteps, all three of you.

DeAnne, you can't use public media in this example so I what you talk about the media in general.

Do you still have faith that the media, even the traditional media, the mainstream media, can affect change?

Or I sometimes think to myself, man, with social media and fragmentization, what's the point?

I don't think that but I'm making a point.

>> Ms. Hamilton: But it has affected change.

It's also not about this thing that we're concerned about, that truths are not being told.

And it is the media and yeah, there's a lot to be concerned about because the media, no matter what, you know, message is being blasted out there through whatever platform you're working on or listening to or dealing with, that is the media affected change.

And it can affect change in a negative way and it can affect change in a positive way and that's the reason why people have to look for platforms that are credible.

They need to check their facts not once but twice or three times and make sure that whatever information they're using or listening to or typing out -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Hamilton: -- is credible.

>> Tom Layson: And that such a fantastic point, that media literacy point that I think should be part of the curriculum in schools.

And actually Scripps right now is doing a fantastic program on all their TV stations across the country that gestures directly at media literacy.

They're holding seminars and it's wonderful.

So I want to ask to electeds now.

When you sit back as an elected official, how is the media doing it right or screwing up?

What's your critique of the media?

>> Ms. Nobles: Yeah.

Well, my personal critique is that the media has to make sure that it's not lazy.

I mean, we all understand and recognize click bait.

And a lot of people, not just because they don't want to read the article but because Americans are working, they're busy, they're moving through this pandemic so sometimes they have to rely on the headline and rely on the media to give them information that they have a snapshot to take a look at.

So I do want to make sure that, in media, there is accurate and factual information being provided to community members.

But what I also love about media in the 21st century is, as community members, as everyday people, we have so much more control over media and we get create our media -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Nobles: -- tell our own stories and our narrative and create blogs and websites and videos.

But we have a lot of power in media today.

And so folks have lots of places to go to double check and triple check information to make sure it's accurate or simply to share their own truth.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

Good.

Victoria, what's your critique?

I mean, you're in the hot seat a lot of times and you know in particular -- >> Ms. Woodards: I feel like I'm in the hot seat all the time, Tom, but -- >> Tom Layson: And particularly lately.

Let's face it, since the pandemic, crime has become an issue in Tacoma.

>> Ms. Woodards: Absolutely.

>> Tom Layson: You're going to start being, if you already haven't, some hard questions.

I know the city council has pushed back a little.

So some of those hard times are coming, if you will.

>> Ms. Woodards: Yeah.

>> Tom Layson: So what is your critique of media in covering that?

What are your expectations?

Where are we letting you down or our institutions down?

And where is it succeeding?

>> Ms. Woodards: Well, I think the media really has an obligation to be responsible in their reporting.

And I think we get some of that and so -- you know as Senator Nobles just talked about, you know when you put a headline up, recognize that-that may be the only thing some people read and so being responsible even in that headline.

But I have to then hold us a little bit responsible too, the people who read the media, who consume the media and that is recognize that it may be a 20 minute interview and a 30 second splice when it gets on TV.

If you could go back and watch the whole -- don't take things out of context.

Or when you read it, before you jump in believing that everything you read is true in the way that you read it, just take a deep breath.

Do a little bit of research.

And I know we don't always have a lot of time for that.

If you can read the whole interview instead of just the headline or the article, if you can look at other sources of media and put a whole story together then that's where you get closer to the entire truth.

But I do recognize that media has this much time to tell a story that is this big.

>> Tom Layson: But I would push back and say shouldn't your quote also include some of that context?

>> Ms. Woodards: Absolutely.

>> Tom Layson: And not require somebody to do -- that's part of the -- that was always my thinking.

One of the reasons you do this is so people don't have to go out and do their own research.

You are curating this for them in a way that's understandable, has context, and can help them live their lives better.

>> Ms. Woodards: And I agree with you in holding media accountable is absolutely true but as they're getting there, we don't get a pass and so I do believe it's media's responsibility to report the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

But when you've got a reporter who's with you on scene and it goes back to a media room where a producer is putting it together for the news, they didn't hear the whole -- like it is -- it can get a little frustrating when the story actually comes out.

But I've learned not to put all of it on media by to say, "Well, that was taken out of context.

Let me tell you all the things I said."

So I hold a little bit of responsibility if I want the truth to be told but we also -- I'm not saying -- we still have to hold media accountable.

>> Tom Layson: I want to work backwards here now a little bit.

T'wina start with you.

What are some of the -- what, if any personal challenges, have you had to face or overcome as a leader?

I can see people -- did this happen to me a lot when your age.

Oh, you're too young to anchor the news.

You're too young to -- so I'm just guessing here but what are some of the things you've had to overcome?

>> Ms. Nobles: Yeah.

That's definitely a top one.

It doesn't help that I now have braces.

[ Laughter ] -- but I think being taken seriously as a woman, as a woman who appears a lot younger than, you know, I really am and I think also just as a mom and as a black woman especially, just making sure that I'm aware of like my sense of ownership in belonging in spaces and that I'm always aware of how important my confidence is in spaces and that I'm aware that there are so many people who are watching me.

And so when I get to be, you know, only the second black woman to serve in our State Senate in Washington State while -- and thankfully Senator Rosa Franklin is still live and we have a beautiful relationship.

There are so many people who are watching me and paying attention and so when I'm the first or the only or when I have to speak and my voice is trembling because I'm extremely nervous, I still must do it because there are people who are watching.

>> Tom Layson: But you feel that support is there?

>> Ms. Nobles: Absolutely.

There is no way -- >> Tom Layson: Okay.

>> Ms. Nobles: -- I could be here without great mentorship like Mayor Woodards, by seeing so many other women, especially black women hold positions confidently and courageously and scared.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Nobles: I can't use the next word, half the time -- [ Laughter ] -- but absolutely there are just so many incredible women that I've been able to see and men that I've been able to watch and know that you know -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Nobles: -- I'm meant to be here, I should be here, and I should be leading in this capacity.

>> Tom Layson: My reaction to that is that's great.

My reaction for you two is you guys came up in a different time.

It wasn't -- you wouldn't have said that then.

What have you had to overcome DeAnne?

>> Ms. Hamilton: I've had to overcome peoples' perception of my quietness.

I'm an observer.

I'm trained as a journalist so I listen but I've had people -- and I used to wear my hair very, very, very, very short.

I had people call me militant because they didn't know me.

So I've had to overcome those kinds of biases and perceptions that people get on a first impression and you know I have.

I've survived.

I'm here now and you know I find this community a very supportive community, and I'm glad that I'm back home.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

I was going to ask you about the support piece.

Were you always supported in your career coming up?

Because you worked in Pittsburgh and San Francisco, a lot of different markets before you landed here at KBTC.

Was that support there or did you have to kind of make your way?

>> Ms. Hamilton: I had support in places but some of my peers were not supportive.

So leadership was usually supportive because they were the ones who hired me so of course they wanted me to do well.

And I did get opportunities to do a lot of different things but it was often my peers who were not supportive.

But I also had a very supportive husband and family, you know, behind me.

And it really does take a family to support you to get through, especially in media.

We work 24 hours a day.

Well, actually I know that these elected officials also work 24 hours a day so that doesn't stop but -- so you need to have that kind of support system because it doesn't shut down.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Hamilton: You know, our -- you know our phones are on all the time.

Something could go wrong but I have come to the place where I feel very, very supported.

>> Tom Layson: Victoria, same question for you.

People who are familiar with your story locally know you have a lot of mentorship and the previous generation of electeds you know supporting you and helping you which is great.

But I'm also sure that's not the complete story.

You had some overcoming probably to do too, possibly in the military or in your academic career.

Where were the places where you were led and where were the places you had to push?

>> Ms. Woodards: Well, let's be honest.

The overcoming issues doesn't stop in your 20s.

>> Tom Layson: Well, that's -- >> Ms. Woodards: I'm overcoming stuff today.

>> Tom Layson: True that.

>> Ms. Woodards: So it isn't like you overcome it and now it's like oh, I've completely overcome it.

I've arrived.

No.

I'm overcoming things every single day but I think one of the big things that I've overcome as mayor -- probably a few things.

One is not to take it personally, that people's concerns and anger and frustration is not directed at you as a human being but at the system that you represent.

And I've had to overcome that especially in the last couple years, not just as a mayor but as an African-American woman and so that's something I've definitely overcome.

>> Tom Layson: Has that improved over time?

Is that piece of it less than it used to be for you, the African-American piece or is it just as much, just as present?

>> Ms. Woodards: Oh, it's just as present now.

It's probably present now sometimes more than ever just because of the racial uprising that's happened in community.

And so when we think about Mannie Ellis and what's happened here in Tacoma, it's even -- when we talk about transformation, I feel like it's even more so now than it has ever been in my life.

Maybe it's calmed down just a little bit the last six months but I would say that in these last couple years, it's been more so for me than ever.

But that's something I've had to overcome that it's not me personally.

And let's be honest, it's not me personally.

Sometimes it is me personally but for the every day community member who has an issue, it's not about me, it's about their issue and that's really hard for me as a person.

And I was going to say the other thing that I've had to accept is my leadership style.

I am not the walk in the room and tell everybody what to do kind of person.

I believe in collaboration.

It is my greatest gift and sometimes my -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Woodards: -- my worst asset because -- >> Tom Layson: For better or worse.

Yeah.

>> Ms. Woodards: Exactly.

Right?

I mean it takes me longer to get things done because I want to -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Woodards: -- make sure that everybody is in agreement and that we're all moving forward together.

It doesn't mean we always agree but I want to make sure that people are okay.

And so I've also had to get really comfortable with my leadership style because people don't see me pointing fingers and banging the gavel and screaming and yelling.

Then they're like she's just to calm.

Well, no, I get stuff done being calm and so kind of just accepting my leadership style and who I am.

But let's be real, as much as we support each other, leadership can be very lonely -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Woodards: -- in really tough moments.

And at that point you have to rely on what's inside of you to get through that moment.

It's not like I can't get through the moment and then pick up the phone and call.

I'm going to call or talk to T'wina but Senator Nobles.

Right.

It's not like I can't do that or she can't do that or call DeAnne but sometimes in those moments you can't pick up that phone -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Woodards: -- and you've got to be strong.

>> Tom Layson: Our last 60 seconds here.

Optimistic or pessimistic, DeAnne, about upcoming leadership; who's coming in behind you?

When you look back across the system, not just at PBS but in media and other places, are you feeling like -- hey, somebody's going to step right in here and do great or are you like, boy, I don't know?

>> Ms. Hamilton: No, I think that there are going to be great leaders coming along.

And I do think that part of -- Senator Nobles said, you know, it's telling our story.

It's capturing that video.

We have control over that story and I do think that because of all the things that have happened and the observations that people/younger people have made, that it is coming.

And so I am very positive about the future leaders and I'm here to support them.

I'll be right there back behind them -- >> Tom Layson: Right.

>> Ms. Hamilton: -- propping them up.

>> Tom Layson: great conversation everybody.

I appreciate you coming to Northwest Now and having an interesting discussion about leadership and how you've all dealt with it.

Thank you.

>> Ms. Nobles: Thank you.

>> Ms. Woodards: Thank you.

>> Ms. Hamilton: Thank you.

>> Tom Layson: Our thanks to Mayor Woodards, DeAnne Hamilton, and Senator Nobles for joining us tonight on Northwest Now.

As always, I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

To watch this program again or to share it with others, Northwest Now can be found on the web at kbtc.org and be sure to follow us on Twitter @NorthwestNow.

Thanks for taking a closer look on this edition of Northwest Now.

Until next time, I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.

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