Lori Townsend: Does Alaska offer more opportunity for people of color?

Or do they have to do more just to prove their abilities are equal?

Unknown: Try to get people to think outside of the box, and the stereotypes about what we as Black people can do, either in Alaska or in the world.

Lori Townsend: A new project called Black in Alaska seeks to present a more complete picture of the lives and professions of Black Alaskans, with the aim of creating a more equitable future.

We'll hear about their goals right now on Alaska Insight.

Good evening, the Black in Alaska project is a growing collection of photographs, video and written stories of Black Alaskans.

The project's creators aim to showcase their lives to help us all better understand eachother and build relationships of respect for a more equitable future.

We'll start tonight's program with a clip of Anchorage resident Lois Lester.

She says when she first visited Alaska more than 50 years ago, she fell in love not with a person, but with a glacier.

Unknown: My name is Elsie E. Lester, most people know me as Lois.

I've been in Alaska for 50 years.

I came with the intention of staying one year.

And of course, here I am.

As far as work was concerned, I, I was the only female in the chemistry department.

And of course, the only Black.

There were good days and bad days.

There were meetings that sometimes I would just walk out and walk away, say when you guys get it together, I'll come back.

I think if you if you grew up under segregation as I did, you could actually figure out or know when there's, something is wrong.

But it's not something that if you actually were born and raised here, you wouldn't understand or you wouldn't notice.

Lori Townsend: Joining me tonight to discuss the Black in Alaska project is Bernard Gatewood.

Bernard is an advisory committee member for the Black in Alaska project and joins us from Fairbanks.

Andre Horton is a firefighter and EMT for the Anchorage Fire Department and is one of the people profiled in the series.

Welcome both of you.

Thank you.

Unknown: Thanks very much.

Lori Townsend: Yeah.

Thanks so much for being on hand.

Bernard, tell us about the Black in Alaska project, how you got involved and what you see as the vision for its future.

Unknown: I think I got involved by just being in the right place at the right time.

Not to belabor the point, but just to give you a little background, Rasmuson has been working on getting more exposure, if you will, for black people for a few years now.

I was invited to a Black leaders convening in Anchorage, probably about three years ago now.

From that, just my involvement with Diane Kaplan and other people, this project was suggested by someone whom I don't recall.

And I'm not sure what process they use to choose the advisory committee, but I was one of the fortunate five.

And in doing so myself, Bill Bailey, Renee Wardlaw, Theresa Lyons and Jewel Jones, along with Angela Cox and Emily, I can't remember, Emily Kwan from and Sydney Copely from Rasmuson.

We chose a creative team led by Jovell Rennie.

And we just brainstorm about various people.

We wanted to bring some attention to black people in Alaska, that were doing great things like Mr. Horton who's joining me today that don't necessarily get a lot of exposure, a lot of attention.

You know, there are a handful of Blacks that you'll see in the newspaper on television from time to time, but it's really a small group that really get a lot of publicity, if you will.

But there are a number of things going on.

There are people that are doing some phenomenal work, and we wanted to highlight some of those people.

Lori Townsend: Fantastic.

Unknown: So I'll stop.

I'll stop there.

Lori Townsend: Well, thank you.

Thank you for getting a started there and helping describe what the background of the project is.

Andre I want to turn to you.

When I watched Lois Lester's video, I was reminded of the late Mahala Ashley Dickerson, the first female Black attorney who came here before statehood.

Her story just amazes me -- with her three triplet sons, otherwise by herself, Lois came here in those early statehood days too.

Before we discuss her professional life, give us your thoughts on her grit coming here alone like that?

Unknown: Well, I can't imagine prior to statehood, like what, what it was like here, I mean, I have my parents tell me stories about what Lake Otis was like when it was dirt, a dirt road, or we didn't have new Seward Highway didn't have Minnesota, infrastructure, internet, the whole thing.

Those are things I take for granted now.

So listening to someone's story like that, where she's like, this is where I came from and this is where I'm at.

It made me really consider and kind of reevaluate how thankful I am for the infrastructure and the culture that we have here in Alaska right now.

And I pay particular attention to the words she used where 'I was the only' or 'I was the first.'

And those are words I, I resonate with well, knowing sometimes when I go to facilities, events, any type of experience I've had in my life, sometimes I'm generally the only one.

And I sometimes take that for granted.

So the the most salient powerful part of this project thus far is to run into all these other Black people in Alaska, where their opening line is, I was the first or I was the only one.

And these are people I've never met before in some cases, even though I've lived in Alaska my whole life.

That's why every time they publish a new story, I'm like, 'Oh, my goodness, I've never met that person before'.

And I do a bunch of research and I find out and I connect with them.

So really, this, this project has been about connecting the dots and allowing people in this community to see other people of color and say, Wow, this is phenomenal that they've achieved that.

And I didn't know they did that.

Um, so it's been historic for me.

Lori Townsend: Build those larger networks across the state.

That's fantastic.

Thank you.

Bernard, I want to turn back to you.

Miss Lois is clearly a woman who does not let barriers deter her.

Before she retired.

She was a chemistry chemistry professor at the University of Alaska Anchorage, the only Black person and the only woman.

Talk about the importance of young black students seeing someone like Professor Lester and realizing maybe there are more opportunities open to them than they'd even considered before.

Unknown: Well, you're absolutely right.

Chemistry, that being a part of the STEM, that's one of the things that we need to get more youth and particularly more Black youth, more youth of color, involved in.

That's something that you really have to learn to appreciate, as a youngster to stay with it.

Because it's hard.

It's not easy.

I knew of Miss Lester, didn't really know her.

You mentioned Miss Dickerson in comparing her to Miss Lester and the struggle that they had.

And I'm very familiar with Miss Dickerson.

Matter of fact, her mentee and her law partner Johnny Gibbons, and the law firm that she started, Dickerson Gibbons, is still in existence, you know.

Johnny's my best friend.

So I spent a lot of time around Miss Dickerson, and out of her homestead and have listened to know several stories about her growing up in Alabama and being in Indiana and coming to, coming to Alaska and homesteading and just the various struggles.

But for people like her, and Miss Lester, being, being in a boys club, if you will, the only woman, she said she's the only woman and only Black person in the chemistry department.

And it's hard, it's hard, even when everyone tries to be accepting of you.

Just being the lonely only is a difficult spot to be in.

So it's certainly a testament to her grit.

And I think it does serve as an inspiration and hopefully a motivation to young people to say, 'Wow, she did that.

I can do it too.'

Lori Townsend: That, that phrase, 'the lonely only' that's going to stay with me as something to remember.

Because I know that that happens quite often.

And so that's an important thing to remember.

Bernard she, Miss Lois grew up under segregation and said during her career, there were good and bad days.

But she says she adheres to her philosophy of only worrying about what she can control.

How does that resonate with you when you think about the broader picture?

Unknown: I think it's a good mantra to have and if it's a philosophy that you can live by, it's great, because it's certainly true that just things that you can control.

And one thing you can control is your own attitude and your actions and the things that you do.

And if you can focus on that, you probably get a whole lot further.

But it's hard to do, because you always want to control a little bit more, you want somebody else to do something.

And that will make your life or your journey easier.

But you can't control what they do, and you can't force them to do it.

Usually you aren't in a position to force them to do it.

So you know, I certainly respect that, that position, and would like to say that oh, yeah, I live by that too.

And some, sometimes I'm able to, but more often than not, it's a struggle.

Lori Townsend: I think it's probably a struggle for most of us.

It's a wonderful rule to live by, but harder to carry out than it sounds on first expression.

Andre, I want to turn back to you now.

Thank you, Bernard.

Andre, you have also had a life with many firsts, as you mentioned earlier.

Among them first professional alpine skier, first Black American to be on the National Ski Team.

You mentioned you were the only Black guy at a Bonnie Raitt concert except for her piano player.

But you said that doesn't bother you, and you feel an obligation to make a difference.

Talk about that.

How do you see those things?

Unknown: Why did I have to mirror what Bernard said about being able to choose your attitude.

And I guess in any of those circumstances, I could look at the negative parts, or I can look at the positive parts.

And being able to represent your nation on a national team, regardless of your race to me was just, I was thrilled every day.

The same with my joke about being at a Bonnie Raitt concert, it was an amazing concert, I enjoyed myself, but I could have chosen to look at it a different way.

But I did.

I just chose to say, Hey, this is a good time.

Let me enjoy myself and, and move forward from that perspective.

And with, for instance, in the fire service, there's a handful of us of color.

But we're making an earnest, you know, process to try to get more and more people of color into the service.

And answering your question too about how I feel like this, it's just a matter of some people don't know they're capable, or they don't know these jobs exist, or they don't know what they're capable of doing.

And Alaskans, especially sometimes we feel limited because we live in this, this space.

But jobs exist and opportunity exists.

You just have to choose your attitude and pursue it.

Lori Townsend: Absolutely.

We celebrate, staying with you for a minute Andre, we celebrate progress, such as Black Alaskans, breaking professional barriers, but even then there are systems that maybe they can't change.

A friend said to me, we just keep our heads down and work.

How do you see that, it makes it seem like progress has limits, and it should not.

Unknown: Well, it's a it's a good question.

It's also a tough one.

Because it's all depends on your perspective, and putting your head down just working versus looking up and saying, 'How can I include more people?'

And this kind of goes back to this inclusivity idea that we've had in the last, you know, three to four years, we've seen this with Black Lives Matter occurring.

And I had a really good mentor of mine saying, you know, diversity is when we invite someone to a dance, and inclusivity is when we ask that person to dance.

And that changes your perspective of saying, Oh, I'm going to pursue diversity versus pursuing inclusivity saying, I'm going to embrace this idea at the same time.

So diversity is kind of an easy topic to discuss.

But inclusivity is like how do I embrace this idea I'm not super comfortable with but I'm willing to take on?

And that's kind of a paradigm shift I've had in my own head about how I can pursue and invite people into my space and and assure them share my life with them and how I live.

Lori Townsend: Well, thank you for that perspective.

Bernard, turning back to you.

How do you see this in your professional life?

Do you feel you've been able to help effect real change so that young Black Alaskans may have more equal footing?

Or, or is it more of "keep your head down and work?"

How do you see it?

Unknown: I'm, I'm in agreement with with Andre for the most part.

It's certainly not just keep your head down and work.

Although I can understand how a person could take that avenue.

You don't want to draw extra attention to yourself.

You just want to once you get to a place of comfort, sometimes it's easier for you to just stay there and just kind of keep what you have and accumulate as much as you have and not really worry about helping anyone else outside of your own circle.

But no, I am.

I want to take the approach keep my head up, as Andre said, look for other opportunities.

If I get into position, and in my professional life, I'm retired from the state of Alaska, I worked with the Division of Juvenile Justice for several years.

I retired as the superintendent of Fairbanks Youth Facility DJJ six years ago.

I would like to believe that having ascended to the rank of superintendent allowed other people to say, to see and to say, oh, there's a Black guy that's professional that gets it done.

Perhaps others, I like to believe that I help level the playing field a little bit more.

In hiring, I think that hiring managers might say, Well, yeah, but not does a good job, he started in this position, maybe I give this person a shot.

Because ultimately it's who you know, not necessarily what you know, or what you can do, sometimes just being in the right friend group, that that's the reality.

Now, of course, you need to have the credentials, you need to have the ability to be able to perform when the chance is given to you, but putting yourself in a position to be recognized, to be noticed, to be chosen.

I want, I want to believe that I helped in that manner.

And the one thing that, the last thing I want to say about this is '"keep your head down"?

No, never give up.

There were times and you know, this could be debated.

But there were times that I feel that I was either passed up for a promotion, or had no chance of getting the job.

I interviewed anyway, not once.

Did I ever say "Oh, well so and so got that that job locked up, I'm not going to interview"?

Oh, no, if I'm qualified for it, you're not going to get to do four interviews, you're gonna do five.

You're gonna have to interview me.

And hopefully, you can tell me why I didn't get the job.

And maybe that's up to me to work with, because maybe it's a legitimate reason that I didn't get hired.

But I'm certainly not going to make your job easy.

And just say, "Well, I'm not going to interview because I don't have a chance."

No, you gonna interview me.

Lori Townsend: That's an, that's an excellent idea.

And a good example, for younger people to just keep pushing.

People have to keep pushing and ask for answers and make sure those answers make sense.

Thank you.

Let's watch another clip from the Black in Alaska project.

It was hard for me to pick which one to start off with because and in the interest of transparency, I must confess that I am a huge fan of this next gentleman Anchorage resident Marcus Wilson works with students.

And I observed his calm, approachable, but always in control leadership style when my granddaughter attended his school.

Let's hear from him.

Unknown: My name is Marcus Wilson.

I am currently principal here at Wendler Middle School.

Been a principal here for the past couple of years.

Love every minute of it.

I didn't plan on going into education, when I originally set off to go to college, but you know, I'm glad that this is where, you know, my journey in my path steered me into you get into education to you know, help shape that next generation and help them become whatever it is they want to become not what somebody is telling them to become.

That's one of the things I loved about growing up here in Anchorage is I didn't see people for color, you know.

If you were my friend you were my friend.

Didn't matter what culture you came from.

Lori Townsend: Watching Mr. Wilson in the hallways or main lunch room at Wendler was always fantastic.

It was easy to see how much he cared about and kept a close eye on the Wendler students.

Andre, Principal Wilson's comments, "you were my friend, it didn't matter what culture you came from", when you consider the terrible stories of racial injustice that stretch back, but especially over the last few years, do you see people coming together more or pulling apart over culture and ethnic lines?

Unknown: Well, I liked what he said.

Most importantly, about he just doesn't see color.

And, and well, news media and parts of our society will try to polarize people immediately.

I would have to say I wouldn't be successful or where I am, if I chose to see color, because sometimes as Alaskans, we're in such a small group, there's no real way to polarize, because we're such a small group of people.

So when Mr. Wilson said I don't see color that that was one of the most powerful statements for me, because it's easy to polarize, but versus Alaskans.

I think we have In a very diverse economy, one economy here, but culture here and community.

We are forced to look at people to our left and right and view them as brothers and sisters instead of straight color.

And I think that's one of the things that has helped me be successful is by seeing that.

And that's why I like Mr. Wilson's comments about it.

Lori Townsend: Yeah.

Bernard, turning back to you.

Do you see the Bblack in Alaska project as part of that work to bring people together over common interests and careers?

Unknown: Certainly, certainly, to do that.

But as well, it's just a highlight to just shine a light on the great work that a lot of people are doing in this state.

You know, we really are trying to get outside of Anchorage and Fairbanks and the more populated areas, and because there are people that are doing great things, and Haynes and it might only be one or two black people in Savannah, for example, but they probably are doing something that's worth mentioning.

And it's been kind of difficult identify some of those people, but we continue to try.

But I just like to also say, while I can appreciate Mr. Wilson's comment about not seeing color, I've always struggled with how you don't see it.

Now, maybe he didn't mean that in a literal, literal sense.

And maybe people who often say I don't see color, don't mean it in a literal sense.

Hopefully, they mean, I don't focus on color, right, I'm not going that that'd be a hindrance or barrier.

But in our society, we always see color, we see differences.

If I see a person with flaming red hair, you daggone right, I'm going to notice them.

That leads me to describe what I saw, I will be able to say "this person there with red hair."

So when you're the only Black, when you're the only Black person in the situation, you know, you're the only Black person and everybody around you knows you only Black person and they asked you to describe that event, you said that was one Black person there.

So if we if we don't focus on race, I think that's a good thing.

And hopefully, that's where we're trying to get to.

Lori Townsend: And I agree that we should be able to see people in their full richness with all of the various shades of skin color and hair color and abilities, differing abilities, and celebrate all of it and not not think that it's limiting that it should be all positive.

Thank you.

Let's watch quickly one more clip, we saw a brief bit of Traci Gatewood.

At the very beginning of tonight's program.

Traci is a business owner in Anchorage, and like Lois Lester, grew up in a segregated area, but says it was Alaska in the 90s, where she first experienced racism.

Unknown: Traci Gatewood, and I am the owner of G2 Diversified Services.

One of the things that I have always tried to do is just be real, be genuine, be a voice and not a voice in that I represent every black person because sometimes when you're the only one, you know, the room can do the collective, we have a diversity question or a diversity issue.

And so it's like, okay, "Traci, tell us what you want, you know, tell us about every Black person in the world," and that that's not been something that I've ever been comfortable with.

But again, I have always wanted to represent and represent positively and try to get people to think outside of the box, and the stereotypes about what we as Black people can do, either in Alaska or in the world.

Lori Townsend: And Traci is in Fairbanks.

It was great to hear from her.

And quickly, just in about a minute here.

Andre, Traci talked about being the diversity, about the diversity question.

You have been comfortable being sort of an ambassador, but Black people are not a monolith.

How do you balance that?

Who are you really speaking for?

Unknown: I guess based on my own my own experiences, I think within the Black community, this has been an experience already to actually meet all these other people in the Black community and have a conversation because I have yet to do that.

Because sometimes I feel like if I'm the only, I spent so much of my time being the only, I don't actually get to come back to a community and be around people of color as often as I'd like to.

But I think what Bernard said too, is like I just keep my head up.

I just keep my head up and keep, and keep going along with this because I think where I'm at is not an accident.

I'm the only one I've been esteemed with skills and a personality and a character to deal with that.

So I just keep on going, keep being Andre.

Lori Townsend: Alright, thank you so much, Andre and Bernard.

It was wonderful to have you join us this evening.

Transforming our systems legal, governmental, health and industry into truly equitable structures doesn't mean people have to give something up.

It means more people can choose their future unencumbered by oppressive policies and beliefs.

A dignified life of free choice and free opportunity is something all people have a right to.

And removing barriers to create an equitable society means we'll be able to celebrate more stories like we heard tonight as the norm and not the exception.

That's it for this edition of Alaska Insight.

Be sure to tune in daily to your local public radio station for Alaska Morning News and Alaska News Nightly every weeknight.

Be part of important conversations happening on Talk of Alaska every Tuesday morning, and visit our website alaskapublic.org for breaking news and reports from across the state.

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That's all the time we have for tonight.

Thanks for joining us this evening.

I'm Lori Townsend.

Good night.