>> ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Crossley: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST, AND OTHERS OF YOU YOU ARE JOINING US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT: BLACK LOVE.

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF, AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

AMERICANS ARE AWASH IN HEART- SHAPED CANDY, FLOWERS, AND CARDS FOR THIS WEEKEND'S VALENTINE'S DAY HOLIDAY, BUT THE ROMANTIC AND FAMILY LOVE REPRESENTED BY THE ANNUAL CELEBRATION IS NOT SOMETHING THAT BLACK AMERICANS HAVE ALWAYS FELT THE RIGHT TO CLAIM.

YET, BLACK LOVE THRIVED THROUGHOUT THE BRUTAL AND PAINFUL DISPLACEMENT OF SLAVERY AND THE OPPRESSION OF SEGREGATION.

THESE DAYS, POSITIVE IMAGES OF BLACK LOVE REFLECTED IN ART OFFER A JOYFUL COUNTERPOINT TO PERSISTENT NEGATIVE PORTRAYALS OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN LIVES.

JOINING US: DR. TRACI PARKER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES AT UMASS, AMHERST; MARITA RIVERO, PRESIDENT OF RIVERO PARTNERS-- MS. RIVERO IS ALSO THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY AND THE FORMER VP AND GM FOR RADIO AND TELEVISION AT GBH; DR. DIANNE MARIE STEWART, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF RELIGION AND AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES AT EMORY UNIVERSITY-- DR. STEWART IS ALSO THE AUTHOR OF "BLACK WOMEN, BLACK LOVE: AMERICA'S WAR ON AFRICAN AMERICAN MARRIAGE"; AND DR. CECIL WEBSTER, JR., AN ADULT, ADOLESCENT AND CHILD PSYCHIATRIST AND PSYCHOTHERAPIST.

WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.

I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU CECIL.

WHEN WE SAY BLACK LOVE IT MAY SORT OF PRETEND A KIND OF BLACK CAN EXPRESSION, PERIOD.

BUT YOU SAY YOU CAN'T SAY BLACK LOVE WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING THE HISTORY OF AFRICAN AMERICAN FOLKS.

>> YES, IT CONTAINS AN AWFUL LOT.

BLACK LOVE HAS MULTIPLE MEANINGS, BLACKNESS HAS MULTIPLE MEANINGS.

IT CAN REFER TO FAMILY, IT CAN REFER TO COMMUNITY.

BUT REALLY THIS DEEP CONNECTION WITH ONE ANOTHER AND, YOU KNOW, A PRACTICALITY, A FLEXIBILITY, AS WELL, IN THE FACE OF THAT ADVERSITY.

BLACK LOVE HAS OBVIOUSLY NOT ALWAYS BEEN CELEBRATED.

WE HAVE HAD A LONG HISTORY OF ANTIBLACK ARE FORBIDDING LOVE, IT HAS ALONG PAINFUL HISTORY IN AMERICA PARTICULARLY, IT HAS A LONG LIVE EVEN WITHIN THAT BLACKNESS WITHIN THAT LOVE.

>> Crossley: TRACI, LET'S GO BACK TO THE PERIOD OF ENSLAVEMENT.

WHAT DID THAT HAVE TO DO WITH OF THE PERIOD OF BLAF LOCK AND BLACK RIMS?

>> THAT'S BEEN ABOUT CITIZENSHIP SO ABOUT SLAVERY, DENYING AFRICANAFRICAN AMERICANS THE RIGHT TO MARRIAGE IS IN A SENSE DENYING THEM CITIZEN SHIP.

THEY STATE ENGAGED.

THEY GOT MARRIED AND THEY DEFINED MARRIAGE IN WAYS THAT FIT THEIR PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO WHAT IS REALLY NOTABLE IS THAT IN MANY OF THEIR VOWS, WHAT THEY SAID WAS UNTIL DEATH OR DISTANCE DO US PART.

MARRIAGE HAS OFTEN BOUND COUPLES NOT ONLY TO EACH OTHER BUT IT ALSO TBOWND THEM TO THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY.

SO MARRIAGE AFTER SLAVERY REALLY AS AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE THINKING ABOUT IT THEY'RE TRYING TO ENSURE THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN LIBERATE THEM.

>> Crossley: SO DR. STEWART, YOU'VE LITERALLY WRITTEN A BOOK ON THE WAR ON MARRIAGE FOR BLACK FOLKS.

WHAT IS THAT WAR WHAT IS IT ALL ABOUT AND WHAT IS IT FOCUSED ON?

>> WELL, IT IS WHAT OUR GUESTS ARE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT IN SOME RESPECTS.

MANY OF THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT LOW RATES OF MARRIAGE, PARTICULARLY AMONG BLACK WOMEN TODAY, TEND OFOCUS ON THE PERSONAL STRATEGIES THAT BLACK WOMEN CAN DEPLOY TO MAKE THEMSELVES MORE APPEALING IN THE DATING AND MARRIAGE MARKETS.

BUT I AM INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT THE SYSTEMIC AND STRUCTURAL CAUSES OF WHAT I CALL FORBIDDEN BLACK LOVE ACTUALLY.

I BELIEVE THOSE CAUSES BEGAN WITH THE SLAVE TRADE.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THE AGE RANGE OF THE AFRICAN WOMEN WHO ENDED UP ON CARGO SHIPS BOUNDED FOR THE AMERICAS, MOST OF THEM WOULD HAVE BEEN MARRIED WOMEN.

THE RELATIONSHIPS OF BLACK MARRIAGES BLACK FAMILIES CONTINUES DURING SLAVERY.

EVEN THOUGH MANY AFRICAN AMERICANS DID MARRY DURING SLAVERY.

THEY CERTAINLY DIDN'T HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO MARRY AND THEIR MARRIAGES WERE NOT RECOGNIZED REALLY.

LEGALLY.

AND SO WHAT I DO I ACTUALLY TRACE THREE, FOUR, LET'S SAY FOUR REALLY, THREE MAJOR CAUSES OF FORBIDDING BLACK LOVE.

RACES SEXISM, OR THE RACIST SEXIST POLICY OF NEUTRAL SEPARATION, THE SEPARATION OF BLACK MARRIAGES AND FAMILIES, AND THE REPRODUCTIVE AND SEXUAL VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACK WOMEN.

AND AS A RESULT OF THAT ALSO, COLORISM AND PHENOTIPPIC STRATIFICATION.

CONTRIBUTED TO BLACK LOVE ACROSS THE CENTURIES.

I LOOK AT SLAVERY, I LOOK AT THE GREAT MIGRATION PERIOD, I LOOK AT WELFARE THE PERIOD WHEN MANY BLACK WOMEN WERE FINDING THEMSELVES IN NEED OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE IN THE LATE 50s AND EARLY 60s.

OF COURSE MASS INCARCERATION AND INTO THE PRESENT, AND WHERE ARE WE TODAY WITH SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> Crossley: SO MA RIOT, ONE OFMARITA, AREBLACK FOLKS WHO ARE EMBRACING BLACK LOVE HAVE REALLY REJECTED SOME OF THE STEREOTYPES AND SOME OF THE WHITE CENTRIC IDEALS OF WHAT LOVE IS, PERIOD.

AND MADE THAT LOVE FOR THEMSELVES.

AND YOU'RE QUITE CLEAR THAT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT BLACK LOVE, THAT'S BROADER THAT WE SHOULD THINK OF LIKE THE VILLAGE THAT WE'RE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT THAT IS OUR COMMUNITY, THAT WE EMBRACE SO MANY MORE PEOPLE IN THAT CIRCLE OF LOVE, IN ORDER TO -- IN ORDER FOR US ACTUALLY TO HAVE THRIVED.

AND UNDERSTOOD THE POWER OF BLACK LOVE.

WOULD YOU TALK ABOUT THAT A BIT?

>> YES.

I REALLY, I LOVE THE KIND OF SCHOLARSHIP WE'RE LEANING ON RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT HELPS US UNDERSTAND HOW BROAD THE COMMUNITY IS WHEN WE THINK ABOUT FAMILY.

OUR COACHES, OUR CHURCHES, OUR EXTENDED COUSINS, THE AUNTIES, THE INSTITUTIONS INSIDE OUR COMMUNITY THAT REALLY HELPED US FORM THE CORE.

YOU NEED TO REALLY GO FORWARD IN THE KIND OF SOCIETY WE HAVE FACED OVER THESE DECADES.

AND I DON'T THINK WE CAN FORGET ABOUT THAT.

IT'S COME IN THE FORM OF FOOD SOMETIMES, THIS EXPRESSION OF FOOD.

I CAN REMEMBER AS A TEENAGER BEING SENT OFF TO COLLEGE AND MY PARENTS, I SAW THE LOOK ON MY PARENTS, BASICALLY PUT ME IN THE HANDS OF A BLACK BUS DRIVER TAKING ME ON TO NEW YORK AND NEW ENGLAND.

I CAN TELL THEY WERE PASSING THEIR CHILD ON TO SOMEONE THEY WERE COUNTING ON TO LOOK OUT FOR ME.

AND HE DID.

I ACTUALLY FELT I WASN'T ALONE ON THE BUS.

SO I THINK THIS IDEA THAT WE HAVE TO RAISE AND UNDERSTAND ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY IS ONE THAT'S MUCH, MUCH MORE CONTEXTUAL AND DEEPER IN MEANING THAN ONE MIGHT SUPPOSE, AND ONE JUST SAYS, ROMANTIC LOVE BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE, IT HAS TO BE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT PUTS A WHOLE COMMUNITY IN PLAY.

>> Crossley: CECIL LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE WHITE CENTRIC IDEAL OF THE BLACK NUCLEAR FAMILY?

WHATDOES THAT LOOK LIKE FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR?

>> OFTENTIMES WE HAVE A VERY WHITE HETEROSEXUAL VIEWPOINTS OF WHAT RELATIONSHIPS ARE AND BY EXTENSION WHAT MARRIAGE IS.

BUT YOU KNOW IN OUR DAILY PRACTICE WE COULD JUST SEE ALL SORTS OF CONSTELLATIONS OF THEM.

THERE MIGHT BE A MOM, THERE MIGHT BE A DAD, THERE MIGHT BE A CHILD, THEY MIGHT BE MARRIED, THEY MIGHT NOT.

THERE MIGHT BE TWO MOMS, TWO DADS, ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE A LOT OF ROOM FOR OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS AS WELL WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS BUT WITHIN SKIES TRI, WITHIN PSYCHOANALYSIS -- PSYCHIATRY, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHITE WESTERN POINT OF VIEW.

THERE IS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, A LOT OF THINKING ABOUT THAT AND TRYING TO LET A LOT OF THAT GO IN TRYING TO GET TO SEE THE STRENGTH OF THE BONDS THAT BLACK FAMILIES OFTEN CREATE.

>> Crossley: AND TRACI, I WOULD SAY MOST PEOPLE WHEN YOU SAY LOVE AND MARRIAGE THEY DON'T THINK OF BLACK FOLKS OF HAVING THOSE STRONG BONDS.

THE STEREOTYPE IS STRONG, TRACI THAT THAT IS NOT WHAT EXISTS.

PLEASE SPEAK TO THE FACT THAT IT VERY MUCH EXISTS, DESPITE ALL OF THE OTHER SOCIAL RAMIFICATIONS THAT FOLKS HAVE TO PUT UP WITH.

>> YES.

NO, CERTAINLY IT HAS ALWAYS EXISTED.

I THINK THE PROBLEM IS IN MEDIA, IN HOLLYWOOD CULTURE ON TELEVISION, WHILE WE INCREASINGLY ARE NOW SEEING INCIDENTS OF BLACK LOVE, HISTORICALLY WE JUST HAVEN'T.

AND WHEN WE HAVE IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S DAMAGED, IT'S PATHOLOGICAL, IT'S DYSFUNCTIONAL.

BUT AFRICAN AMERICANS HAVE BEEN -- HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT BLACK LOVE, BLACK MARRIAGE, BLACK FAMILY WAS ABOUT COMMUNITY AND WAS ABOUT GROUP ADVANCEMENT.

AND THIS IS WHY AFRICAN AMERICANS HAVE STAYED COMMITTED TO MARRIAGE EVEN IF IT'S NOT LEGALIZED OR FORMALIZED.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE GROUP.

IT'S BEEN ABOUT THE COMMUNITY.

>> Crossley: SO I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT A CLIP JUST TO UNDERSCORE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

THIS IS FROM THE OWN SERIES, "BLACK LOVE," COUPLE-ACTORS TIA MOWRY AND CORY HARDRICT SHARE THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING A TRUSTED PARTNER.

>> I SEE CORY AS MY PARTNER IN CRIME.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE I'M NOT DOING THIS ALONE.

>> YEAH.

AND TIA HAS BEEN WITH ME EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

THE UPS AND DOWNS, THE BAD, THE UGLY, SHE KNOWS INS AND OUTS AND EVERYTHING.

I'D RATHER SHARE THAT WITH ME FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE THAN SOMEONE WHO DON'T KNOW YOU, JUST SAY EVERYTHING IS GREAT, YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GENUINE, YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REAL.

AT LEAST I KNOW TIA GOT MY BACK TO THE GRAVE.

SHE KNOWS I'M WITH HER AND I KNOW SHE'S WITH ME.

MARRIAGE IS WORK.

>> Crossley: SO DIANNE THAT'S A SCENE THAT A LOT OF US RELATE TO AND MANY PEOPLE DO.

BY THE WAY, THIS IS A MARRIED BLACK COUPLE DOING SERIES, I THINK IN THE FOURTH SEASON ON OWN.

AND MANY, MANY FOR TRAILS OF ALL KINDS OF COUPLES, I MARINE ALL KINDS ACROSS THE SPECTRUM, REALLY TALKING ABOUT MAKING THEIR LOVE WORK AS BLACK PEOPLE.

BUT I THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE MORE INTENSIVE RENDERING APART, FACTORS THAT RENDERED APART COUPLES AND DOING SO I'M THINKING ABOUT MASS INCARCERATION, TALK ABOUT THAT EFFECT ON NOT JUST A COUPLE BUT A COMMUNITY, BLACK FOLKS TRYING TO MAINTAIN A STRONG LOVE FOUNDATION.

>> I REALLY LIKE THIS CONVERSATION.

BECAUSE IT'S COMPLEX.

AND IT IS FEATURING THE FACT THAT BLACK LOVE HAS BEEN RESILIENT.

ACROSS THE CENTURIES.

AND SO I APPRECIATE THAT CLIP VERY MUCH.

AND WE KNOW THAT ROMANTIC LOVE WHEN IT'S STRONG, WHEN IT DOESN'T GIVE WAY TO TOXICITY, IT BLEEDS INTO OTHER FORMS OF LOVE.

I MEAN, THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW THAT LOVE HAS BEEN TESTED AND THAT LOVE WORKS.

SO YES.

BUT WE ARE CONTENDING WITH INSTITUTIONAL FORCES AND SYSTEMS THAT HAVE RENDERED BLACK COUPLES APART.

SO WE KNOW THAT MASS INCARCERATION HAS PLACED MILLIONS OF BLACK MEN IN PRISON.

I MEAN SOME DEM OG DEMOGRAPAPERS, WE KNOW THEIR NEED TO STRATEGIC REPLY DISAPPEAR AND NOT BE COUNTED ESPECIALLY AS IT RELATES TO WELFARE POLICIES.

BUT -- SO YES.

IN TERMS OF SHEER NUMBERS WE HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

BUT IN TERMS OF THE DAMAGE THAT IT DOES, TO A COMMUNITY THAT IS ALREADY STRUGGLING WITH TEN GENERATIONS OF STOLEN WEALTH, MASS INCARCERATION COSTS.

IT COSTS THE RELATIVES, THE WIVES, THE PARTNERS OF THOSE THAT ARE IN PRISON.

BECAUSE IN MANY RESPECTS, THEY HAVE TO EITHER PAY FOR EXPENSIVE COLLECT TELEPHONE CALLS, I MEAN, SOME LEGISLATION IS SEEKING TO OVERTURN THOSE POLICIES OF THE PAST.

BUT THIS IS WREAKING HAVOC ON OUR COMMUNITY FOR DECADES.

OR THEY HAVE TO ORDER FOOD AND SPECIAL TOILETRIES OR WHAT HAVE YOU FOR THEIR LOVED ONES FROM COMMISSARIES WHICH ARE INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE.

THEY CANNOT VISIT THEIR LOVED ONES AT HOME.

THERE ARE SO MANY COSTS, THERE HAVE BEEN HOUSING POLICIES THAT DON'T ALLOW CONVICTED FELONS IN PUBLIC HOUSING AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM PRISON.

OF COURSE WE KNOW THE DISCRIMINATION THAT MANY FORMER FORMERLY INCARCERATED BLACK MINUTE HAVEMENHAVE FACED.

PREVENTED BLACK MEN IN PRISON FROM BEING ABLE TO PURSUE EDUCATION, FROM RECEIVING PELL GRANTS TO CONTINUE A COLLEGE EDUCATION OR BEGIN WITH.

>> Crossley: SO THE LOSS HAS REVERBERATES BEYOND ANY INCARCERATED PERSON.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Crossley: TO YOU CECIL, CAN THE ABSENCE OF BLACK LOVE HOWEVER WE'VE DESCRIBED IT HERE, YOU KNOW, REALLY IMPACT PHYSICAL HEALTH?

>> OH I MEAN ABSOLUTELY.

WE HAVE A COMMUNITY THAT HAS REALLY SURROUNDED ITSELF IN THIS IDEA OF BEING REALLY PROTECTIVE AND DYNAMIC AND DEALING WITH A WORLD THAT IS QUITE HOSTILE TO IT.

AND YET, A LITTLE BIT MUCH TO DR. STEWART'S POINT IN MANY WAYS THIS HAS BEEN QUITE SUCCESSFUL AS SORT OF A GENERAL BLACK COMMUNITY.

WE DO FACE A LOT OF STEREOTYPES FOR EXAMPLE.

WITH THE MENTION OF -- WHEN I THINK ABOUT BLACK FATHERS FOR EXAMPLE AND I THINK ABOUT THE KIDS THAT I SEE OFTENTIMES PEOPLE REALLY FOCUS ON THE MAJORITY OF BLACK CHILDREN NOT BEING BORN TO FAMILIES THAT ARE MARRIED.

BUT 60% OF BLACK MEN LIVE WITH THEIR CHILDREN.

AND IT REALLY REQUIRES A NUANCED VIEW IN THAT SENSE.

I MEAN THERE WAS A 2018 STUDY THAT SHOWED WHETHER OR NOT BLACK FATHERS WERE LIVING AT HOME WITH THEIR CHILDREN THEY WERE MOST LIKELY BEING INVOLVED WITH THEIR LIVES, EAT BEING MEALS, FEEDING THEM, DIE PERKING DIAPERING THEM.

AN IMPORTANT AREA OF VULNERABILITY.

WHEN ONE'S FATHER IS BEING TAKEN AWAY, LET'S SAY INCARCERATED, NOT ABLE TO LIVE WITH THE FAMILY, IT CAN HAVE TREMENDOUS IMPACTS.

BECAUSE KIDS OFTEN NOTICE A LOT, CREATE MANY DIFFERENT NARRATIVES WHY THAT MIGHT BE THE CASE AND NOT BLAME THEMSELVES.

AND FOR THE STRAIN BETWEEN COUPLES FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ALSO MIGHT COME AT GREAT PERSONAL COST.

WE OFTEN PUSH OURSELVES VERY HARD.

AND DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IN THE FACE OF ADVERSITY.

BUT THAT COMES AT GREAT PERSONAL COST AS WELL.

>> Crossley: SO I KNOW WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THESE REALLY HARMFUL FACTORS AND THE STRUGGLE BUT MARITA I WANT TO ALSO RAISE UP THAT IN THIS MOMENT WHICH I'M THRILLED ABOUT, THERE IS A LOT OF ART THAT'S OUT THERE CELEBRATING ACTUALLY THE RESILIENCE AS DIANNE SAID EARLIER OF BLACK LOVE.

AND I AM, YOU KNOW -- I TEND TO BE A PESSIMIST BUT I LOVE THE MOVIE, THE PHOTOGRAPH, THE LATEST SILVIE'S LOVE, CHERISH THE DAY, THERE ARE MANY OTHERS I CAN NAME.

BUT WE'RE SO UNUSED TO SEEING THOSE JOYFUL REPRESENTATIONS OF THE RESILIENCE OF BLACK LOVE.

BUT TALK TO ME ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT THAT IS FOR OUR COMMUNITY TO SEE THAT AND EMBRACE IT.

>> THE COMMUNITY PLAYS OFF ITS MIRROR IMAGE, WE ABSORB WHAT'S TOLD TO US, HOW WE SEE EACH OTHER REFLECTED.

THE OLD LOVE FAVORITES ARE BEING UPDATED IN THESE DAYS.

I'D EVEN SAY BRIDGERTON, THE DUKE, ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE SEEING IMAGES OF OURSELVES AND A SIDE OF OURSELVES WE WELL KNOW IN FILM IN MEDIA.

WE HEAR IT IN MUSIC, THERE HAVE BEEN CROONERS, JAZZ RENDITIONS OF ROMANTIC PIECES.

ROMANCE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BIG PART OF OUR LIVES.

SUDDENLY WE ARE STUCK WITH THE PATHOLOGY OOF THE AGE HAS BEEN DRAPED ON OUR SHOULDERS AND WE'RE ONLY PRESENTED AS DEALING WITH THOSE SORTS OF ISSUES, WITHOUT REGARD TO HOW THEY GOT THERE.

WE COULD GO BACK TO THAT POINT SOMETIME LATER.

BUT IN ADDITION TO SHAT SOCIETY HAS BEEN TRAINED TO SEE, WHICH IS THIS KIND OF NEGATIVE PICTURE, INSIDE OUR OWN LIVES, WE'VE ENJOYED LOVE OF OUR CHILDREN, WE'VE ENJOYED LAUGHTER, WE HAVE FINALLY BEGUN TO SEE AGAIN THESE IMAGES REPRESENTED IN RADIO, IN TELEVISION, IN SCHOLARSHIP AS REPRESENTED BY THIS PANEL.

AND YOU CAN'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THAT.

I MEAN OTHERWISE THERE IS A TEAR THAT'S CAUGHT INSIDE YOU I THINK FOR A LIFETIME BECAUSE YOU'RE UNABLE REALLY TO DEAL WITH A SOCIETY THAT EXPECTS YOU TO FEEL.

MY SON SAID, YOUNG BLACK MEN ARE ONLY LOWFD TO BE EMOTIONAL WHEN THEY WIN THE GAME.

YOU WIN THE FOOTBALL TEAM, HIT THE BASKET, YOU CAN CRY BECAUSE YOU'VE WON.

OTHERWISE YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO CRY.

ALLOWING FOR THE FACT WE HAVE FULL LIVES, 360° PEOPLE AND WE ARE ABLE IN THAT CONTEXT TO EXPERIENCE ANYTHING ANY HUMAN BEING EXPERIENCES AND IT IS TIME OF THAT PART OF OURSELVES WERE AVAILABLE TO US AND TO ANYONE LOOKING AT US.

>> Crossley: WE SHOULD NOTE YOU'RE A ONE WOMAN ROMANTIC BECAUSE YOU MAKE YOUR OWN VANL TINE'S CARDS, AND DISTRIBUTE THEM.

YOU'RE BLACK WOMAN WALKING I GUESS.

>> THANK YOU.

I ALWAYS LOVE VALENTINE'S DAY.

AND I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT WOMEN,G3 WHOEVER IT WAS THAT TURNED VALENTINE'S DAY INTO A OBLIGATION, SHAME ON YOU.

WHAT YOU DO ON VALENTINE'S DAY IS A CONNECTION YOU HAVE TO HOWEVER YOU WANT TO EXPRESS IT.

YES I LIKE TO MAKE VALENTINE'S.

>> Crossley: THAT'S GREAT.

TRACI, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT GENERATION AND HOW THE IMPACTS OF OUR HISTORY AND HOW WE ARE REJECTING THE WHITE CENTRIC IDEAL OF BLACK LOVE AND TRYING TO EMBRACE WITH WHAT HAS CULTURALLY ALWAYS BEEN THERE FOR US.

WHICH IS THE VILLAGE AND ALSO OUR ROW MAN ROW PLAN TICK PARTNERS.

BUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE YOU SAY ARE PUTTING THIS OFF, IS THAT BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY HAVE SEEN FROM PAST DECADES AND GENERATIONS IN OUR HISTORY?

WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT HOW BLACK, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE EMBRACING BLACK LOVE?

>> AMONG MY STUDENTS THEY REALLY WANT BLACK LOVE.

THEY UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR INTIMACY AND CONNECTION.

YET THEY ARE VERY WELL AWARE OF PATE PATE PATRIARCHY.

THEY ALSO ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING THROUGH SCHOOL.

RIGHT?

GETTING THROUGH NOT ONLY UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOL BUT GRADUATE SCHOOL.

SO AS A RESULT, MANY OF THEM AND INCLUDING MY PEERS ARE DELAYING MARRIAGE IN ORDER TO GET THEMSELVES CENTERED, SET, WELL PREPARED FOR THE FUTURE.

>> Crossley: IS IT YOUR SENSE HOWEVER THAT IT IS SOMETHING THEY FEEL THE RIGHT TO CLAIM?

AS I SAID EARLIER SOMETIMES BLACK FOLKS DIDN'T FEEL THE RIGHT TO CLAIM BLACK LOVE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THEY FEEL THE RIGHT TO CLAIM IT.

THEY ALSO FEEL THE RIGHT TO DEFINE IT AS THEY SEE FIT, RIGHT?

THAT MEANS THEY DO GET MATTER OR THEY MIGHT NOT GET MARRIED BUT THEY CO-HABITATE FOR DECADES ON END.

THEY HAVE CHILDREN OUT OF WEDLOCK.

THEY UNDERSTAND THAT WITH MARRIAGE COMES STATE SURVEILLANCE, HISTORICALLY HAS COME WITH STATE SURVEILLANCE WHICH OFTEN INVITES THE WHITE GAZE INTO YOUR HOME AND INTO YOUR PERSONAL LIVE.

SO I REALLY THINK THAT THEY ARE FIGURING OUTS WAYS TO NEGOTIATE THIS, IN ORDER TO FIND HAPPINESS AND PEACE AND WHAT ALSO ATTENDS YOU, THIS NOTION OF GROUP ADVANCEMENT.

>> Crossley: SO DR. CECIL TALK TO US ABOUT JUMPING THE BROOM AND TO BRING THESE CULTURAL TRADITIONS INTO THE BLACK LOVE SPACE SO OTHER PEOPLE CAN SEE OUR INDIVIDUAL AND UNIQUE EXPERIENCE OF IT.

>> I'LL TALK ABOUT HOW WE CAN BRING THAT TRADITION IN AS WELL AS CREATING NUTRITIOUS AS WELL.

FULL DISCLOSURE I GOT MARRIED, I ALSO JUMPED THE BROOM, IT WAS A REALLY IMPORTANT DAY FOR ME AS WELL, TO THE DELIGHT AND JOY OF MY FAMILY AND THEY WERE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

BUT THAT WAS A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS CEREMONY LIKE TO BRING IN ELEMENTS OF LIKE HISTORICAL CONNECTION TO AMERICA, BLACK AMERICANS ENSLAVED HERE.

AND JUST TO FEEL LIKE SORT OF A GREATER SENSE OF CONNECTION IN THAT WAY.

THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE THAT WERE ASKING WELL WHAT'S THAT ABOUT?

YOU JUMPED SOMETHING, WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?

OFTENTIMES IT WOULD MAKE PEOPLE UNDORVEL HAVE TO SORT OF FOCUS ON A REALLY PAINFUL ASPECT OF MARRIAGE, BUT YOU KNOW IT WASN'T RECOGNIZED AND THAT SLAVES HAD TO DO THIS THING THAT THEY HAD ACCESS TO IN ORDER TO SIGNIFY THEIR COMMITMENT TO ONE ANOTHER.

BUT IT LED TO SOME BEAUTIFUL CONVERSATIONS WITH ONE ANOTHER.

IN ADDITION, I THINK THIS GENERATION IS PARTICULARLY THE MOST APPOINTED TO BE ADAPTABLE AND EXPANSIVE ON HOW THEY LOOK AT LOVE.

AND MUCH TO MARITA RIVERO'S REFLECTIONS, A BIGGER PART OF THAT HAS BEEN EXPANDED AROUND SORT OF QUEER IDENTITIES AS WELL.

WE HAVE OFTEN THOUGHT OF BLACKNESS THROUGH A VERY WHITE LENS AS WELL, HETEROSEXUAL, BUT WE CAN THINK OF ALL SORTS OF THINGS LIKE EVEN GENDER ROLES THAT PEOPLE HAVE.

THERE IS A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY WITHIN BLACK COMMUNITIES WITH THEM THAT WAY.

WE CAN THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SAME-GENDER MARRIAGES OR CONNECTIONS OR PARTICIPATION AS WELL.

AND I THINK YOUNGER PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE ADEPT AT BEING ABLE TO EXPLORE THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

EVEN IF IT MEANS NOT FULLY REALIZING A VERY STRICT TRADITION AS WELL.

>> Crossley: ALL RIGHT, WELL THAT'S PROBABLY AGOOD PLACE TO LEAVE IT RIGHT NOW.

JUMPING THE BROOM IS A JOYFUL THING TO SEE.

IF PEOPLE HAVEN'T SEEN IT, THEY LAY A BROOM DOWN AND THE COUPLE JUMPS INTO THE LAND OF HAPPINESS.

AS THEY SAY.

ANYWAY.

THIS IS THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANKS TO ALL OF OUR GUESTS, AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org