- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum," artificial intelligence transforms the future of technology, and black professionals are an integral part of the revolution.

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[upbeat music] ♪ Welcome to "Black Issues Forum."

I'm Kenya Thompson.

Artificial intelligence, or AI, will be the most transformative tech over the next 10 years, knowing us better than even human beings can.

And they'll be able to use that information in very interesting ways.

AI can now mimic speech, translate languages, diagnose cancers, and even play games.

We're seeing things that not too long ago we never thought were possible.

But, as with everything else as transformative as this, it's important to identify the good with the bad.

To help us talk tech, we welcome our guests, chief brand strategist of PR Pro Media, Pam Purifoy, and Angle Bush, founder of Black Women in Artificial Intelligence.

Welcome to the show, ladies.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- I'd love to hear from both of you, Angle, starting with you first, what interested you in getting involved in the artificial intelligence industry and what's the work that you currently do?

- Well, thank you so much for having me.

Actually, I started out trying to build a robot and I ended up going to an event, an Internet of Things event.

And during that event, I did not see a full reflection of myself.

And I continued to hear that artificial intelligence is the fourth industrial revolution.

And I said to myself, "Well, surely you can't have a revolution without Black Women."

And so in that moment, that was the genesis of Black Women in Artificial Intelligence.

And we were fully founded in August of 2020.

We now have members on five continents, and we've developed great relationships with Amazon, Capital One, NVIDIA, Expedia, Swoon, Create Labs, and many more organizations who are committed to our vision, to educate, engage, embrace, empower Black women in the artificial intelligence sector.

So we're really excited about our journey with Black Women in AI.

- You got me excited too.

Pam, I know part of your interest had a little bit to do with what Angle's doing.

Tell us about how you got started.

- It had everything to do with Angle, actually, Kenya.

I started from a place of fear.

I am a longtime member of National Association of Black Journalists.

And this summer, this past August, we had our national convention along with the National Association of Hispanic Journalists.

I was talking on the phone with Angle one night, we are sorority sisters, and she told me that she had founded Black Women in AI.

And I said, "You did what?"

Because I have always been that person that was afraid of artificial intelligence.

I see cyborgs, I see invasions, I see all of this.

I have quite an imaginative-- quite an imagination.

So after talking with her for a little bit, we hung up and I thought about it.

I said, "You know what, maybe I should make this into a panel."

Because it was panel creation time for the association, for the convention.

And I called her back and said, "Angle, I think I wanna do something on AI.

I don't need to be afraid of it.

I need to lean into it."

And that's what I did.

We won.

It was selected, the panel was selected.

And Angle, a person, an executive from NVIDIA, and another person from Echo Diversity, who's an expert in diversity, equity, and inclusion, was also involved in the panel.

And it was very successful.

And we hope to do a part two next year at the convention.

- That's a beautiful story.

Angle, you talk about AI revolutionizing how we live.

Talk about some of those ways so our viewers can understand what are some things that we don't recognize AI has an impact on our day to day?

- Well, some ways that artificial intelligence has revolutionized the way that we live, three examples that I believe that most people will be able to connect with.

The first example is grocery stores.

Many of us, we go into the grocery store, and about 20 years or so ago, we would go into the grocery store and there was a human that was there to scan the products, check us out, and things of that nature.

But now when we go into the grocery store, there are self-checkout lanes.

That's artificial intelligence, right?

So it's changed the way we shop, and it's also changed the way that company does business.

And so that's a real world example that most people can relate to.

And also virtual assistance, whether it's Alexa, Siri, Cortana, those voice-activated virtual assistants used to be our aunts or our cousins or our friends.

But now we ask Alexa, "How do I get A, B, or C?"

Right?

"How do I get to A, B, or C?"

Right?

So those are real world examples.

And the final real world example that I can give to you that most people will relate to is the recommendation systems.

When you're watching Netflix, when you're watching the streaming services, there are recommendation systems that are learning what you like, right?

And so, when they're learning what you like, then they personalize that service.

So then if you like comedy, they're going to continue to show you comedy content.

And then they're going to dig deeper and say, "Okay, do they like standup comedy or do they like movies?

And is there a particular actor or actress that they're interested in?"

So it's going to continue to learn what you like and personalize your experience so that you can engage longer with that content.

So those are three real world examples of how AI has revolutionized our world.

- And it's funny that you mentioned that, 'cause you could have a conversation and then all of a sudden you see an ad pop up on your phone.

Or on the television or on a website that you're visiting, and you're thinking, well, how did they know that about me?

And so it's funny that you say that, there are always ears listening now that we have integrated AI into how we live.

Pam, how does AI integrate in other sectors of business per se?

- Well, I have recently, I have a client who is a inaugural poet laureate of Flint, Michigan, and also American Academy of Poet Laureates Fellow.

And she was telling me, she says, "You know I wanna get into NFTs with my work, with my poetry, and combine it with my husband's artwork."

Recently, you heard about James Earl Jones, has lent his voice so that he will always be the perpetual voice of Darth Vader, and AI made that possible.

So even in my hesitancy, I'm having to get into it full stop, to help clients further their brands and what have you.

So my whole idea is, and what we talked about in our panel discussion at the convention was that Black and brown people need to lean into this technology, because it's already here, of course, but we need to have more people like us doing the coding, and things like that so that we are represented in the facial recognition, and other aspects of AI.

- Yeah, all very true, representation is key, and we'll talk about that in the second block a little bit more.

But you mentioned something earlier, talked about cyborgs.

So let's talk a little bit about robots.

When I was a kid, they seemed like a very unrealistic metal piece of equipment that we controlled.

And today it feels like we're surrounded by hidden robots that we don't even consider real bots.

Angle, I'd love to hear your perspective on the level of dependency that we have on them.

You talked a little bit earlier about going to the grocery store, and having those automated checkout lines.

What is that doing to our dependency on AI?

- I think in the near future, we will have more of a dependence on robots, because a lot of the major corporations are trying to determine what to do, where it won't become pervasive.

So they are trying to determine what is the next level in terms of robots, in terms of our safety going into places that humans cannot go, or it would be extremely dangerous for us to go into.

So they're really leaning into those types of robotics where it will change the job, but it'll only change a few people in what they do.

So it's going to be more, I think more in terms of safety, and that's how the robotics industry I think they're going into that direction.

- Pam, some argue that robots are kind of taking over our jobs, Angle, I know you've kind of alluded to it's not necessarily going to destroy that, but what do you say to folks that say computers are taking away our business, and we can't do the same roles that we've been doing before.

- You know Kenya?

That is a big concern of mine.

I think that that was part of my hesitancy or fear of AI.

What I hope happens, and I don't know if it will happen, but what my deepest desire is to see that it works in conjunction with people, that it is a helper for workers, and not a total destroyer of jobs or employment.

Because yeah, I mean, in the very field that I'm in, I'm a people person, and I know that they have there's AI that can write things, and the Associated Press is really trying to utilize AI in the newsroom.

And so I don't think that robots can take over what people actually do, but we need to have deeper conversations about that, how the future looks.

'Cause I don't want cyborgs and people taking over the world, or anything like that.

- Yeah, it's like that movie "I, Robot" that Will Smith was in.

They just took over.

- Exactly, that's what I don't wanna see.

I vehemently don't wanna see.

- Neither do I.

[laughs] So we know that Black professionals are virtually invisible in tech, and even more so in the area of artificial intelligence.

Everyone knows it, and we see it, and it's a booming industry.

And sadly, we as Black women in particular have the least presence.

Angle, you alluded to it a little bit earlier, both of you have honestly, but we keep saying we're in a revolutionary turn with the presence of AI.

Angle, what's the impact of this on our Black women in particular?

- I love that question.

The biggest impact in particular with Black women will be seen in the job market.

Whether you work in the media, whether you work at a hospital, whether you work at a HR, in a tech job, or a non-tech field, it's going to impact us the most in terms of the job market.

And what we have to do right now today, is start to plan our pivot.

And what does that look like?

It looks like first thing, is to understand what artificial intelligence is, doing the research, and understanding it's a system created to mimic our behaviors, human behaviors, as well as intelligence.

So now that you know that, dive even deeper into all the different aspects of artificial intelligence.

And then the next thing you have to do is do more research, and find out what is happening in your industry, and what is being automated, and what changes are being made, and then you go to that step further, and you determine what is happening in my company.

And not only what is happening in my job, but what is happening two levels above me.

Because once you find out what's happening with your supervisor, and your supervisor, supervisor, then you can determine where your company is going as it relates to artificial intelligence.

You know, sometimes changes come in there, we're asked, well, why do I have to learn the power of BI?

Why do I have to learn this database system?

Artificial intelligence is coming.

- And so it's better for us to not only be engaged, but be prepared to pivot.

- Mm.

Yeah.

That's an important thing to have knowledge of, that pivoting.

Pam, You know, we know that there's a deficit in representation, but is that also reflected in pay for us?

- Well, absolutely, because if you, think about it, if you've got mostly Caucasian men doing the coding for AI and whatnot now, by the time we get into it, we're already so many steps behind.

So you're not gonna be paid as much because you haven't been in the game.

Right?

So it, and we already know the statistics about black women and pay, pay equity.

So we, that's why it's even more important that we have these discussions, and that we have Angle and other people that are very, are experts in this subject matter, at conventions, at places where black and brown people are to discuss these issues and to get them to lean into it, and to understand, like Angle said, what is the pivot?

Such as I mentioned with the Associated Press.

You know, they're trying to do this writing thing, and probably with editing, and so that crushes more jobs of professionals like us who do that type of work.

So we have to be ahead, and not be blind to what is going on.

- And part of it.

- Kind of reminds of when the newspapers weren't online forever, and the internet took over, and yet they're producing the news.

- Yeah.

- Right?

- Right, right.

And part of that advancement, I think, is to recognize the areas that there isn't a presence of AI.

You, for example, have integrated it with a NABJ, which is the National Association of Black Journalists, and understanding how journalists can participate in this revolution.

Now, how important is it to be in underrepresented areas, in spaces where people don't even think that this is an industry that they could venture out into?

Pam, You can answer that.

Angle, I'd love to hear what you have to say as well.

- I was, I am affiliated with a local government agency, and I told them of the panel that I had done in Vegas in August, and I was saying, you know what, we really need to be looking at AI because there's so many processes that you do within government that probably could be really enhanced or done better with the aid of people and the artificial intelligence.

And so far, it's been like, huh, what?

You know, but knowing what I know now after my research and leaning into it, I know that that's something that we all need to be thinking about and ever present about it.

And hopefully I'll be able to give a discussion on that subject matter of what it is, what it is, and maybe bring Angle in to talk further about it, and just so that people can get comfortable with the idea.

Because that's the biggest thing is that, I think that if you, when you don't know something, or you don't know about it, you're just not comfortable, and you don't discuss it.

- Yeah, you hit the nail on the head right there.

Angle, anything to add?

- I think Pam said it wonderfully.

I would go from the basis of artificial intelligence will affect your job.

Just start there.

We'll have to start there because if we think, okay, well, I'm in PR, it's never going to affect me.

There is a system already created that can write press releases.

And I know PR people do more than that.

For those in the media, those who are anchors, there is a metahuman already created in China that is doing the news.

And so we have to take into consideration how does my job change, how do I pivot, knowing what I know in terms of artificial intelligence?

So again, it goes back to doing that research and seeing how it's going to affect your job, but it will affect everything that we do.

- Mm-hmm.

Indeed.

And you know, I think what's important too, is to present this to our children, right?

And I think AI plays a really interesting dual role in this because if our children don't see themselves in the marketing, in the efforts that AI create, they're not gonna see themselves in the industry either.

So let's talk about that technical presence of having black and brown children in things that AI creates in our internet, in our digital journey.

Angle, I'd love to hear from you first.

- I love that question as well.

I believe in community learning.

We have to create the opportunity for the entire community to learn, whether it's a student or a parent, we have to create those opportunities.

But one of the things that I did want to talk about when it comes to our presence, what often happens is we're into this, you know, I wanna be in the room, I wanna be in the room.

Well, we have to move beyond being in the room.

I believe in diversity, equity, and inclusion, and of course retention.

And I speak about that, but I also champion power, authority, and influence.

It is not enough for me to be in the room, because then I'm just taking up space.

If I do not have shared power, authority, and influence.

Because then, I can't bring people in.

I don't have hiring authority.

I don't have a budget.

I am just in the room.

So we have to go beyond asking to be in the room.

We have to ask, we have to begin to ask for shared power, authority, and influence.

Because once we have those things, we can change the system.

Because if we don't, we'll continue to end up with what we currently have, and that is a broken system where you see systemic racism and things of that nature.

So again, diversity, equity, inclusion, retention, but also, most importantly, power, authority, and influence.

- Mm-hmm.

- Retention is key.

Right?

Pam, did you have something you wanted to add to that?

- I think Angle said it, said it best and said it all, but again, even to get to that power authority and influence, you have to become knowledgeable about what AI and other forms of technology are and how you are in the game, that you have skin in the game.

And that's my, my term for power authority, and influence.

You've got to be in it - Okay.

- And you can't be in it if you're afraid of it.

You can't be in it if you don't research it for yourself.

I'm even looking at ways from my experience this summer and being affiliated with with Angle is to how I can use my business to help those corporations that are doing AI with their messaging to the black and brown people.

I'm looking at other ways how I can use my talents to be in the game, have skin in the game to, for the messaging part of this, because chances are in a lot of tech areas, I don't think that there are many of us working in that area as far as the messaging.

Certainly not with the imaging and, and what have you.

We're not in it.

- Yeah.

- Not to the degree that we should be.

- Yeah and that was gonna be my next point of conversation is you know, the importance of data and analytics and having access to AI could prove extremely useful for social change, equitable advancements, business growth.

Add onto that when we talk about social change and justice.

- You, you've said it all.

I mean, look at what happened to us in the summer of 2020 and then how they were able to aggregate all of the information and data from the social media posts furthering the social change that happened in 2020.

And so, likewise in my field, I depend on the the analytics that I get from social media, from Meta and and what have you and and use that to further opportunities for clients.

So it's also important, but again, you have to be in it you have to understand it, you have to educate yourself of what it is and to be involved in it.

- Yeah.

- You know, you can't get the power authority and influence unless you understand it.

- Indeed.

Yep, Angle, did you wanna add anything to that in social justice lens?

- From a social justice lens I think there are so many things that are happening when it comes to facial recognition, for example, that we we have to be aware of how that's going to affect our communities, in particular.

When we put out systems that are supposed to recognize us but we don't claim the data and we don't determine we don't input information that looks like us, images that look like us.

And so, and the labeling of the data, so and this all sounds technical but it's really a matter of working with the algorithms and the people in the background.

And I think when it comes to social justice we look at artificial intelligence as this magic black box.

It is not magic.

There are people behind the algorithm.

I can create an Alexa, I have created an Alexa and I have the specific questions I wanted to answer and things of that nature.

So when it comes to social justice we have to be very careful that we are a part of this process so that we can have good data to utilize when we're creating these systems.

- Yeah, a little under a minute left here, Angle.

If there's a young student or parents that are watching who are looking to get themselves or their kids into AI what's the best way they can get started?

- The best way to get started is really for students, there are so many organizations that are out there that are working to assist students in learning artificial intelligence.

Microsoft has a great program in terms of robotics.

There is a Black in Robotics, and it's led by Dr. Carletta Berry.

She does a great job in teaching students how to do robotics.

And when it comes to parents, again I believe in community learning.

And so the parents can learn as well.

And they can be a part of Black in AI, which is led by Dr. Timnit Gebru or of course they can be a part of Black Women in AI.

And we can have that shared experience where if the student has a question, they can go to their parent.

They don't have to wait until the next day.

They don't have to wait until the next week.

- Yeah.

- They can simply say, "Could you help me in this arena?"

And so I think we have to create that community of learning and those shared experiences so that we can continue to change the world.

- Well, thank you, thanks.

Pam Purefoy, Angle Bush, thank you both for being here with us and engaging in such an important and innovative topic.

- We also want to thank you for watching and invite you to engage with us on Twitter or Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum or listen at any time on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or Google Podcasts.

For Black Issues Forum, I'm Kenya Thompson.

See you next week.

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