- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum," what happens when a single image changes everything?

A childhood photo of a young black girl skateboarding in 1979 has ignited conversations about representation, culture, and the power of skateboarding.

Join us as we explore the incredible journey of this image, coming up next.

Stay with us.

- [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum."

I'm Kenia Thompson.

Today, we're talking about skateboarding and the black community, and how one powerful image, a snapshot of an 11-year-old girl skateboarding in 1979, resurfaced decades later and took the internet by storm.

This picture has sparked conversations about representation, history, and the power of imagery to inspire others in this industry.

To discuss this, we have two incredible guests with us, and I'd first like to welcome Clyde Singleton, a legendary professional skateboarder and writer who was one of the first black skaters to turn pro.

He's been a major voice in the skate culture for over 25 years.

And joining him, we have Shaunda Shane, a woman whose childhood photo, skating in the rain under an umbrella, went viral.

Welcome to the show.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Of course.

So great to have you both here.

I think this isn't a topic that we've broached before, but I'm so excited to talk about this.

- Okay.

- [Kenia] This space.

Clyde, we'll start with you.

This picture kind of brought us here, but before that, you've been in this skateboarding industry world for a while.

Tell us how you first encountered this image and why did it capture you?

And we see this image here next to you on the couch.

- I had a buddy send it to me.

His name's Aliasha.

And at first when I saw it, I didn't think it was real.

I don't know why, because skateboarders pick things apart.

And so I was convinced that I was like, there's no way she has on boots and she's skateboarded, there's no way.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- But sure enough, it was real.

We just couldn't figure out the date.

- [Kenia] Right.

- It was a black and white image, and it was a black woman skateboarding.

And until I was 19, 20, I'd never seen a black woman skateboard.

You know, I've never, you know, we didn't have "Wonder Woman" on TV or nothing like that.

You know, so, you know, all we had was what's happening and "Car Wash." And that was pretty much the images of black people skating.

I believe Gary Coleman did a movie on NBC, and he had a skateboard in it as well.

- [Kenia] Okay.

- But those are the only images.

That was it.

So we didn't have a lot of representation.

So for myself to see it, and I do skateboard history, I was very thrown back.

- Yeah.

And not just you, right?

A lot of folks were very thrown back.

- Yes.

- Before we continue the conversation, I want to share a clip.

So we've partnered with PBS North Carolina as my home, North Carolina, who featured the story in depth.

But I wanna share this clip from the bigger picture and how the girl in this photo became such a phenomenon.

Take a look.

- In 2019 is probably when I started scanning these old negatives.

So I decided to take that upon myself, 'cause I was afraid, "What's gonna happen to these negatives?

Are they gonna get trashed?

Are they gonna start decaying or something?"

When I came across that image, what I really liked about it, I grew up skateboarding in Southern California, so anytime there's a skateboarding image, you know, it kind of jumps out at me.

But that one really, you know, just her stance, the way she's standing, the umbrella, it's just a perfect little moment.

[steady music] So I put it in a gallery of like 50 images on the Fayetteville Observer website.

Then that image got shared on a Black Archive's Instagram page, then got shared by Clyde Singleton, who's a professional skater, then Tony Hawk shared it.

- [Shaunda] And then like, I started getting messages on Messenger from people that I have no clue who they were.

And it was like, "I know you don't know me, but Tony Hawk is looking for you."

And I'm like, what?

You know.

And I'm like, "Well, tell him I'm here.

You know, I'm here.

It's me, you know?"

So it just blew up from there.

It's iconic.

You never thought, you know, from back then to now that it would be this big, - Well, and this is you!

That was you.

That is amazing.

How does it feel to see this come about, to have people just awing over this image?

- It is unreal, amazing.

When I first heard about it, I thought it was a joke.

I really did.

I thought it was a joke.

And then people, you know, like I said, people kept calling me and messaging me and was like, "I think this picture is you.

I think this picture is you."

So I seen the picture and I'm like, "Yeah, it's me."

You know?

- [Kenia] Now you shared a story before that your granddaughter said, "Who reposted this picture?"

- My granddaughter called me.

I was at work and she was like, "Grandma, do you know who [indistinct] is?"

And I'm like, yeah.

And she was like, "She posted you on her page.

She posted you."

So I'm like, okay, okay, like that.

And she was screaming and so excited.

So I went and I, you know, looked at the picture and stuff.

So yeah, she was so excited.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Well, in Tony Hawk's post, his caption was, "New Fave Mystery Skater Unlocked," and you are that mystery skater from Fayetteville Observer, which is so cool that they broke that, 1973 style, grace, confidence, and goofy footed in the rain.

I love it.

And I hope she's still around.

And the comments went on to say, I want that photo on a black T-shirt.

So cool.

This is absolutely everything to me.

What do those comments make you feel?

- Again, amazing.

I never would have even imagined, - [Kenia] Yeah.

- That this would have come this far.

Yeah.

- And when we talk about representation in this space, I mean, for you to have seen this young black girl, skating in the rain like this, you know, that was impactful.

But how do you think that relates to folks today and black America today?

- As far as skateboarding or just black America today?

- As far as skateboarding goes.

- As far as skateboarding, I mean, we have now, we have a lot better representation.

Just growing up, we didn't have a lot of images like that whatsoever.

You know, there was one black professional skater when I was growing up.

It was just literally one guy.

His name was Steve Steadham.

And so I didn't see a black woman skateboarding until probably 1989, 90.

Her name was Stephanie Person and she used to skate in contests with Tony Hawk and those guys.

- [Kenia] Oh, wow.

- Yeah.

So they didn't have skateboarding 'cause it kind of disappeared for women in the late seventies.

So they just took him outta magazines.

I'm not sure why.

I don't work at the magazines.

It's just from what I understand.

So it was no representation of women, and especially black women.

And she lived in California.

So to see Shaunda skating in North Carolina, I thought I was the only black person skating in Florida.

- [Kenia] Right.

- I didn't know what people look like, you know?

So I just think it's awesome, you know?

- Shaunda, do you remember this day?

- Actually, I do remember it.

- Because there were other kids in this, if you go on to look at images, there are other little kids with you.

What was happening that day?

- I was of course outside, playing in the rain.

And the two kids, I think, if I can remember back, had came to my house with someone to visit.

And I don't know if it was my mom or who, but my other two friends that stayed in the neighborhood had skateboards as well.

My uncle bought three skateboards for me and two of my friends, which they didn't ride their skateboards.

So I think they told me like, go borrow, you know, their skateboards so, you know, these two girls can ride with you on the, you know, skateboard.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- So I'm thinking that that's how that came about.

But I don't know.

I just don't remember the two girls.

- Yeah.

- I don't remember.

But again, I was just... - And that wasn't out of the norm for you to play like that.

- No.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

And I think that's the thing that, you know, most people don't realize is, I mean, my son has a skateboard, a lot of black kids own skateboards.

- Yes.

- Right?

- Yes.

- We're just not seeing the representation as much within the industry.

Which is the bigger problem.

- [Clyde] Yes.

Yes.

- So let's talk about the skateboarding culture.

How has it been for you, as a black skateboarder?

- When I first started, this is very interesting, when I first started, the kid that taught me how to skateboard, his parents didn't like black people.

- [Kenia] Oh.

- So it's like some weird "Huck Finn" thing.

Like I had to learn in his garage.

It was weird.

- [Kenia] But he was willing to teach you though.

- He was willing to teach me.

That's all it was.

And so I had to go through, first couple years skateboarding, it was finding my friends because you didn't know, it was the 80s, so, you know, a lot of their parents were Jim Crow parents or something.

So you didn't know who was gonna say what at any time.

So the first couple years, that was the most difficult part, you know, is getting through that whole mental.

The mental part of it was more harder than the tricks.

You know, but then also just seeing no representation.

But I don't think that really stopped me.

You know, I was just very determined to skateboard.

And when you meet other people like that, I think the most common thing is, people say you felt like you were on an island, you know, 'cause you're kind of alone.

You know, it's just you.

And when I was young, say, me and my friends would go skateboard, I'd always have to go home.

So skateboarding wasn't cool back then.

You know, like, the two cultures had not met yet.

You know, like there was BET and MTV.

There was no like, everyone wasn't partying together yet.

- Yeah.

- Right.

- So when I went home, it was, you know, "What are you doing with the white boy stuff," and things like that.

So we were kind of social rejects.

- Yeah, and I recall that.

I mean, I remember growing up, I grew up more like in the 90s, I guess.

High school was 90s.

And I remember seeing some black kids that liked skateboarding, but they were ostracized, it felt like.

- Oh yes.

Oh, oh, yes.

- It wasn't a cool thing at all.

- Not at all.

Nobody liked us.

The girls didn't like us.

Like, nobody liked us.

The jocks, nobody liked us.

And, you know, and then so going back to my neighborhood, it was very difficult, you know?

You weren't really accepted.

You didn't know where to turn to, you know?

Your skateboard was your friend.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- That's it.

That was all you had was your skateboard.

And, I dunno, people say skateboarding saved my life, but it really saved my life.

Yeah, I don't know what I'd be doing if I didn't skateboard.

- Wow.

Shauna, did you continue skateboarding?

- I skateboarded for a couple years.

I don't know actually when I stopped skateboarding, but I know my skateboard got ran over.

- [Kenia] Aw.

- So I don't know exactly.

I'm thinking around that time, but I don't know like what year.

- [Kenia] Okay.

- You know.

- [Kenia] Maybe a few years after that.

Well, you know, skateboarding has oftentimes been seen as kind of this counterculture movement.

What do you think, or how do you think that aspect has played into conversations around race and representation?

I'll open that to you, Clyde.

- In skateboarding, I think they tend to stay away from it a lot.

You know, you hear a lot of, skateboarding has no color.

- Right.

- And that sounds great to someone that doesn't have color.

You know, I mean, you look at the old magazines, there's no color in it.

You know, there's no black people in there, really.

And so, I don't know, I've always been very unapologetically black.

I'm from the south, and so I've just been very proud to be a black person.

I'm a black man and skateboarding, it's odd.

You meet a lot of guys and they're not, it's very weird, I would say that much.

You know, but then you think, I don't think they really grew up in the environments a lot of us did.

You know, maybe they grew up in completely different environments where all of their friends looked one way.

And, you know, like, I grew up in a southern, it's very southern, you know, very close to my family.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- Very close to black culture.

So it wasn't a thing.

When I turned pro, my first board had the Black Star Liner on it.

- [Kenia] Okay.

What is that?

- Yes.

- What is the black star?

- The Black Star Liner?

- Yeah.

- You don't know about the Black Star Liner?

- I don't, no.

- So you know about the Black Star Liner?

- No, I don't.

- What?

[Clyde laughing] So the Black Star Liner, Marcus Garvey wanted all the black people to go back to Africa.

It was, "Oh, go back to Africa.

So Marcus Garvey's like, "Bet."

So he got a big, huge ship called the Black Star Liner.

- Okay.

Yeah.

- He was trying to take everyone back.

So my first graphic had, it was kind of a little cartoon of me running to get to the Black Star Liner.

- [Kenia] Gotcha.

Okay.

- Yeah, so.

- Okay, okay.

Yeah.

- Yeah so, you know, I've always used some sort of black representation - Yeah.

- In skateboarding.

But like I said, she set him, first photo I saw of him, he's wearing African makeup in the picture.

And like, I don't know why, but I always thought that was cool.

- Yeah.

- Because this is when a different world was still on and things like that.

And so HBCUs and black culture was celebrated.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- And I was like, oh, an actual black person, on a skateboard.

You know, it was unheard of back then.

So he was a catalyst in all of that, you know.

But in between him and say guys like Kareem Campbell, we had Ray Barbie and, you know, we had some guys here and there, a lot less than now, you know.

But still at this day, I would say, you know, as far as owning businesses and things like that, I have my thing, Stevie Williams has his, couple more guys, but there's less black professionals skateboarders that own skateboard companies than there are NFL coaches.

- [Kenia] Wow.

- It's crazy.

Yes, yes.

- Wow.

Shaunda, did you see that skateboarding was something that was frowned upon in your community?

Maybe that's why you stopped skating?

- Well, in my community, it wasn't frowned upon.

It was just, it was like, me.

You know, just me.

White guys were on skateboards back then, but no black girls.

So I didn't have anyone to really connect with for skating.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- It was just what I taught myself and what I had seen, you know, maybe on TV or a magazine or something.

But other than that, none of my girlfriends, 'cause they are girly girls.

They didn't do, you know, the skateboard.

So it was just me.

- Do you think if you had seen more representation that you likely would have continued?

- Definitely.

Mhm, definitely.

And just like I was telling Clyde, I was, you know, learning how to do different tricks, you know what I'm saying?

But again, it was just me, you know?

So I was learning how to, do you call it?

- I think it's a like a dog walk.

- Walk the dog?

- She could skate.

She's playing around.

She could skate.

She can do tricks.

Yeah she can do tricks!

- Okay.

- She could turn, she could do it.

- [Kenia] So you'll have to show after the show, how to do tricks.

- She's trying to be modest.

She is good.

- I don't know how to do it.

- She's good.

- But once, like I said, I was teaching myself and once I learned how to come out of my driveway, 'cause we lived on a corner and on a hill, so once I learned how to come outta my driveway and bypass or find the pebbles, 'cause I fail plenty of times because if you riding and you hit a rock or a pebble or a patch of dirt, it's over, you know?

So once I learned how to do all of that, you know, that was, you know, it, because I didn't have nobody to challenge me to be like, "Well hey, I'm gonna do this or try to do this, or I learned this."

It was just me, you know?

So yeah.

- No skateboard parks?

- No, definitely not.

- Yeah.

- Not back then.

None at all.

- There were a couple.

I don't know.

I don't know.

- So what does it mean to be a pro skateboarder?

What does that look like?

- [Clyde] Being broke.

[Clyde laughing] - What does that look like?

- I don't know.

You get free stuff.

You get free stuff.

- Competitions.

- Yeah, you go to competitions.

You know, that's a big part of it.

It's a little different now.

There's a lot of kids, they can afford to say, "I don't know how, but I don't do that."

And we weren't allowed, you know, that wasn't a thing.

You know, kids now can be like, I don't skate contest.

- [Kenia] No.

- And that's, I don't know.

I don't know that.

But when we were coming up, you had to skate in the contest.

You had to be known in the amateur circuit.

And I think it was a little different.

The guy that turned me pro was one of the greatest pro skaters, you know?

So now there's a lot of different people starting companies.

And I don't know what it's like to be pro now.

I know when I was pro, we made a little bit of money and traveled and got all the free skateboards we wanted.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- Yeah.

It was like, kids.

It was like "Willy Wonka."

- [Kenia] Wow.

- Yeah.

- Wow.

Well, speaking of pro, I know we've mentioned Tony Hawk already, but this beautiful skateboard next to me was a gift that he gave to you, which is beautiful.

It says, "Thank you, Shaunda."

And it says Tony Hawk, and then he has the umbrella.

- [Shaunda] Yes.

- [Kenia] I love that.

I absolutely love it.

How did that feel, receiving that from Tony?

- It was incredible.

And then just with the umbrella, and I'm like, "Oh my God, they put the umbrella on the skateboard."

I love it.

And I hide it at my... - So you can't ride this.

- I'm not, never.

- [Clyde] Can I ride it.

- No!

Look, I'm gonna have to keep an eye on him.

- Yes.

- But I hide it in my home.

I keep it in my closet because I don't want, when I'm not, you know, at home, I don't even want nobody to even think about it.

- Right.

And it's its own beautiful piece.

- Yes, it does.

Yep.

- Yes.

- Well, you know, as parents are watching, I'm a parent of a young black boy who would love to skate, but has no community to do that in, or at least doesn't see one.

What recommendations would you give to someone like me.

- That he can't find like, friends or things like that?

- I think he feels alienated in the space.

- Go to a skateboard park.

Well, kind of, you know?

That's a good place to meet kids.

- [Kenia] Okay.

- Because it's kind of an open area and there's a lot of kids that feel just like him there.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- They feel like, they can't meet someone and things like that.

So the skateboard is kind of the conduit that brings everyone together, you know?

So there's the guys that are too cool, but there's more guys probably like your son, you know?

'Cause we were all those people growing up.

We were all very shy and timid.

And there was grown men back then that didn't, you know, they were like yelling at us.

- Yeah.

- You know, now they're a lot more acceptable.

You know, if you saw a kid at the park, you're gonna go up and talk to him.

You see him having some trouble skating.

So I would say go to the skateboard park.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Are there any broader, like, national efforts to kind of cohesively bring the community together that you're aware of?

- Yes.

I would say like, let's see, there's a lot of non-profits that do, you know, they do some pretty good work.

I'm trying to think of the one that I've worked with.

There's Boards for Bros down in Tampa, Florida.

- [Kenia] Okay.

- They do a lot of good work.

They give away hundreds of skateboards, every year.

The skate park of Tampa's having a big contest next month.

So Board for Bros goes down there and they give away like a hundred complete skateboards, 40 pair of Vans, - [Kenia] Oh, wow.

- And things like that.

So they get these kids into skating.

But this is where it gets kind of weird at.

And I love the work they do, but this is where it gets weird.

You can't just give a kid a skateboard and walk away.

You know, it's like, like, "Hey guys, here's a skateboard.

Let's take a picture.

Like, later."

Like, what are you supposed to do after that, you know?

It's not like you just like, leave them there.

So, you know, I would love to try to get into figuring that out, you know, how we can get these kids, you know, actually skating.

Don't just give 'em a skateboard and leave them and come back in four months.

Like, that's weird.

- Yeah.

- Right?

That's weird.

- I think so too.

- So, you know, but there's a lot of people doing good work.

- Nice.

Well, you have something over here.

- Oh, I brought something for you.

- You did?

- I got some for you too.

You ready?

- Oh, you do?

- I'll give you yours first.

- Oh, but then you gotta give Shaunda hers first.

- Okay, all right.

You get yours second.

- Okay.

- So my friend, I wanted to bring you something really nice.

Here's an Endless Grind shirt first.

It's a local skateboard shop.

- Okay.

- [Kenia] Gotta open it up so we can see it.

- Thank you to Miguel.

- Aw, that looks great.

- It's got the North icon on it.

I don't know.

- [Kenia] Oh, look at that.

- [Clyde] Well look at that.

So you got a shirt, but hold on.

It gets better.

- Gets better?

- It gets better.

- Uh oh.

- You said you wore a size 10?

- Yes.

- I got you.

- Oh, cool!

Ooh.

- [Kenia] You're just getting all the presents, Shaunda.

- My son is gonna, ooh, ooh.

- Yeah.

Don't let him wear your shoes.

- Oh, those are nice.

- Oh my God.

- [Clyde] I put some stickers in there as well.

- Oh those are so nice.

- Thank you.

- [Clyde] You're very welcome.

Thank you to my friend Bob Breynolds at Nike.

It was a last minute thing.

- Oh my God.

- Those are very nice.

- Who would've thought?

You would've never thought, taking that picture, - No.

- All those years ago would bring you here.

- Here's the best part.

I got you both some pudding.

- Some pudding.

- Let's do this.

- I love Jello.

- Exactly, see!

I told you!

- [Kenia] I love strawberry Jello.

- Oh my God.

- I won.

That's it.

- Thank you.

- We'll have to have a little pudding here.

- It's very nice to meet you.

- You too.

Thank you.

Oh my gosh.

- Very nice to meet you.

- Thank you.

- And thank you for having us.

- No, of course.

I got one more question for you, though.

- Okay.

- If you think back to your younger self, right, especially Shaunda, seeing what this picture has done for the community and bringing everyone together, what would you have said to yourself?

And same to you, we'll come back to you, but Shaunda first.

- I would definitely have told myself to stay with it.

Keep skating.

I think eventually if I would've kept, I would've come in contact with more people like yourself.

- [Clyde] Yes.

- And, you know, it probably would've been something bigger for my community, you know?

- [Clyde] Oh, absolutely.

So definitely, you know, I wish, you know, I could've just kept going and kept going, kept going.

So yeah, that's exactly what I would've told myself.

- Yeah.

What about you?

- If I could tell my younger self something?

- Yeah.

Tell your younger self something.

- Where do you wanna start?

- [Shaunda] Right, right.

- I don't know.

You know what I would tell my younger self?

I would've probably stayed in school.

You know, I quit gonna school at 16, 17 to pursue skateboarding.

I came back and got my high school completion, but I probably would've stuck in school and maybe went to college because skateboarding's cool, but there's not a lot of money in it.

You know, I probably would've had something set up early on.

Luckily I became a chef and stuff.

- Yeah.

- You know?

But that's very lucky.

- Yeah.

- You know, a lot of my friends, they're not able to make that next leap.

So I would tell my younger self to stay in school, go to college and get an education, have something to fall back on.

You know, you don't wanna make sandwiches your whole life.

You know, you don't wanna work in a skateboard warehouse.

- So yeah.

- Yeah.

And that was gonna be my next question, you know, for a son, a person like my son, the youth, especially those of color, what would you tell them?

Someone's like so passionate about skateboarding, but I guess staying in school would be part of that, right?

- I would say, I don't know, just stay in school and stick with it.

You know, like skateboarding is something that I love.

No one could ever tell me like, as much as people made fun of me or anything, or as much as people didn't like me, I stuck with it.

- Yeah.

- You know, you have to be very headstrong.

And once you figure out yourself, the tricks are easy.

You know, you do a lot of doubting yourself and you look around, you see a lot of other things.

But once you build your own self-esteem up, it's gold from there.

- Yeah.

- Yes.

- Shaunda, do your kids skate or grandkids skate?

- My son, my 20-year-old, well, he just turned 20 Monday, he was skating.

I didn't know he skated.

- [Kenia] Oh wow.

- He never knew I skated.

- [Kenia] Aw.

- Never knew I skated.

So just to know that he, you know, was skating to get around was kind of like, okay, you know?

It's kind of cool, you know?

- Of course that's cool.

- I mean, you know, that's what I'm just talking to myself, not to him, but I'm like, "Okay, he's skateboarding."

- And has this connected the two of you together?

- He's more like, I don't know.

He gets excited.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- But you don't know he gets excited.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- You know?

- [Kenia] I'm sure he's proud of you though.

- He definitely is, 'cause once I, you know, told him the whole story, he was just like, - [Kenia] Wow.

- Wow.

- Yeah.

- You know.

- Well it's been so great to have you both here.

Thank you for sharing your stories and your time, Shaunda Shane.

- Thank you.

- [Kenia] Clyde Singleton, thank you so much.

- Thank you very much.

- Thank you.

- And we thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram, using the hashtag BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ ♪ - [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.