Everybody with Angela Williamson is made possible by Fireheart Pictures and viewers like you.

Thank you.

Billy Joel.

Chaka Khan, Cyndi Lauper and Wayne Newton are just a few musicians who have filed bankruptcy during their music career.

Usually, bankruptcy filings of famous people, including musicians, are due to lawsuits, debts, or taxes.

Some musicians filed bankruptcy because of their recording contracts, like the R&B group TLC and the Goo Goo Dolls.

Tonight, we talked to a musician who is advocating for financial literacy in the music industry.

I'm so happy you're joining us.

Mean from Los Angeles.

This is KLCS PBS.

Welcome to everybody.

With Angela Williamson and innovation, Arts, education and public affairs program.

Everybody with Angela Williamson is made possible by viewers like you.

Thank you.

And now your host, doctor Angela Williamson.

Dang.

Oh my God.

Earlier today, also, Martin gave.

You.

This time to let you in on how to do the.

Oh, no.

You did I tell you right now I'm on it.

But on the real.

This next song is a new one.

It's called Barletta.

Oh.

Clap your hands, Austin.

I'm on the.

Ballot.

That belongs to me as.

A metropolitan borough.

Coming up later.

I'm Will dog, a musician with Ozomatli.

I'm helping young musicians navigate their financial journey without so much struggle.

We're using music as the message to get the word out.

Financial literacy is so important for musicians music as a career especially.

It's a business.

Whenever you're running a business, you need to know where your money's coming from, where it's going at the end of the day, how much you're making, what your profit is.

I think a lot of times, you know, musicians, we get caught up in the art of it.

So we get into music for the right reasons, because we love the art and we love to express ourselves through creating.

But once it turns into a business, those are the type of skills that we need to learn.

Nobody I know from our scene or even scenes from the past had these skills or being taught these skills because many of us come from poor backgrounds, and so a lot of us find ourselves in debt, in trouble with the IRS because we're not paying taxes on time or what have you, or buying things that maybe look good or feel good at the moment but don't hold value.

And so it's really important that we understand how money works, how it can help us in the future as we get older to, you know, just have more freedom to do things with our lives that we want to do.

One of the the ways that the music industry can help young musicians, you know, understand finances better is to have programs set up.

I want people to get interested in their money and not just wasting it.

And because, you know, life is short.

And when you get older, I want to see people coming up and having a stable life that they can sustain, you know, for their whole life, and not just this short amount of time when they're young.

I mean.

Does come the Metropolitan, Metropolitan, the US, the Midwest.

I, I don't know, when.

I talk to you about it, I should probably come, though, as I look at my scores.

00000000.

Take lollipop, dolly, pop 100 flavors.

You can come Terrell Bacon.

Will dog is our guest.

Will dog, thank you so much for being here and allowing us to come into your studio.

Oh, thank you for having me, doctor Angela.

Really happy to be here.

I love what you're doing.

But before we talk about how you are advocating for financial literacy and the music industry, I want to learn a little bit about you.

And I mean, music sounds like it's been a part of your life even from a small age.

I mean, you were even part of a special academy.

Yeah, well, I grew up in a I grew up in Los Angeles, and, I had the fortune, and my parents knew that I was into music and art.

So they got me into a magnet school.

So I went to a performing arts school, 32nd Street, USC magnet.

Wow.

And what was the first instrument you picked up?

The first.

Well, so the first instrument I ever played, I think was probably just drums, just playing a lot.

I always knew I wanted to be a guitar player, but when I went to school in third grade, they said I had to play an orchestral instrument first.

So I wanted to be, When I was a kid, I really loved Bruce Springsteen, so I wanted to be a sax player like Clarence Clemons.

but they said that I had to play clarinet first, so then I didn't want to play clarinet.

So the music teacher said, well, you're big, so you you could play trombone.

So my first instrument was actually trombone.

Oh my goodness.

But from the very early age, because you already knew which instrument you wanted to play, did you know what genre you wanted to sing into or did singing come later?

well, I'm not I'm not much of a singer even today.

I mean, I sing backgrounds and and and I did start another project we'll get to later.

where I was singing.

no, I just knew I wanted a musician.

I didn't know how I was going to get there, you know, I was lucky that my parents were into music, and I was brought to a lot of concerts as a young child.

I remember when I was six years old, my dad took me to a class concert.

Wow.

Yeah.

And that's when when I saw the class come on stage.

Was it the Santa Monica civic?

Yes.

just in Santa Monica.

And, actually, I fell asleep during all the openers, but as soon as the class came on, my dad says I jumped out and jumped out, but I what I remember about that night is I, at that moment is when I decided that I was going to be a musician.

I don't I didn't know how I was going to get there because there's no musicians in my family.

Yeah, but I just knew that that's what I wanted to do.

Which is very interesting, because normally when I talk to famous musicians, someone was in their family somewhere, you know, was a musician, so they were able to learn that.

But you just you fell in love with it.

And that's what you wanted to do when you grew up.

And so my question is, so how does young Will dog, from that very early elementary where you had to play the clarinet, move to the young Will dog that decides to start his band and and things?

It was was it a progression for you?

Yeah.

So when I was ten years old, this new kid came to my school with a broken arm.

His name was Andy.

and he, you know, he was middle class, so he he had he had some funds, you know, with his family.

and so he, he became a drummer.

And so I would go to his house every weekend and, and play drums.

So I grew up playing the drums with him.

and so that's kind of like really how it started in.

And we started a band where I got a guitar and his mom bought me a guitar, you know, so that I could play with him and then eventually bought me a bass so I could play with him.

And that's really what took what got me going, you know?

And unfortunately, you know, Andy is no longer with us.

You know, we there's a lot of trauma, in that relationship, but, yeah.

And he, he ended up committing suicide, just about ten years ago, unfortunately.

but I live, you know, with his memory and and his passion from.

He's one of the best musicians I ever knew, you know?

And that's that's what happens to so many of the greatest artists, you know, is there.

So it involved in the art that this, this other society that we're where you know, you know, getting your stuff together and filing taxes like you were you were talking about earlier, filing your taxes and doing paperwork and logistics just does falls by the wayside.

So let's in honor of Andy's memory, because he made such an impact in your life, do you think that because of his creativity and his talent, that people could have helped him along the way so that he didn't feel so depressed or so alone, you that you find that a lot in this industry or.

Yeah, I mean, with Andy, you know.

Yes.

I mean, Andy was such he was a pure artist.

and he would make fun of me.

Oh, you have meetings with your damn jurors.

You would call managers damages.

Oh, you know, and your producers, you would call them reducers.

Oh, yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

And so, you would make fun of me.

but he was just such a purist artist.

But, you know, when we were about 19 or so, he made the decision to go, you know, more into drugs, drug use, and, unfortunately, he just couldn't deal with the world, you know, in the way, you know, the rules of this world.

You know, that's really what it is, what it comes down to.

Well, and I think when you're talking about the rules of this world, especially when you are highly creative, like you and Andy, that's hard because it's almost like the world doesn't give you that extra space to move at your own pace.

Yes, exactly.

And there's just so many other skills that you need besides just being an artist to to, let's say, make it in this industry.

You know, it's many the best musicians are the ones that don't make it, you know, a lot of them, you know.

Yeah.

You know, I'll see.

You know, cats are living on the street and they're musicians like, oh, check my bass out.

And they're like the most amazing musician you ever heard.

And I mean, everyone says this, that it is a business, but with without that great creativity, there wouldn't be a business.

So how do you learn to merge the two now?

Was this something that a young Will dog did, or is this something as you started to mature in the industry, realize you needed to control that part of it?

Yeah, that's a great question, doctor Angela.

so when I was a kid, my parents were very left, anti-capitalist.

And so we, I was raised in I was raised in the hood, you know, we always lived in I grew up in MacArthur Park.

And before that, in Cudahy, they were anti-capitalist.

They were very political.

and when my mom, they were part of a political organization, actually, and my parents got divorced when I was eight.

And it that's because my mom left that political organization.

My dad still stayed in it.

So they got divorced.

And my mom and my at that point found ourselves.

That was my mom's full support system, was part of that organization.

So when we left, everything that she now looking back at it, I can see as an adult, you know, what was happening, right?

So, you know, she was she was, you know, basically ostracized from that organization.

And that was her whole support system.

So we ended up we were houseless, homeless, or what's the word, term now?

I say homeless, but it's unhoused.

So we were unhoused.

We lived in vehicles.

we lived everywhere.

We lived all the way down Venice Boulevard.

We lived from Skid Row to Venice Beach.

And this was, you know, when I was 11, 11 years old to 13 years old.

when we come back, we want to talk about how you started your band, and, and this is another way of telling Will dog story.

And then coming to why you are this important advocate about financial solvency with music musicians today.

So hold on one second and come back to hear more of my conversation with Will dog.

Now and again, for years now, it's watered down a percent place all day.

Like the teacher, this on a sailboat made of street.

Now I now could be a person.

Anyone in your community, your mom, your dad, sister, brother, neighbor.

Until now can be a place your house, town, city, the moon and out of space.

You stay in your country and now can be your thing.

Baseball club for catching up puts you reach and the muscle that you're stretching cakes.

Can catch beat.

Everybody stay with me.

All the for years now.

Every day.

Person, place or thing.

Like the teacher, this famous lady on a sailboat made of string.

Welcome back.

Well, that was really interesting how you talked about that first part of your life, even at the age of 15, where you are still being unhoused, living in your car.

But at some point you become this major musician with this phenomenal group winning Grammys.

How does this how does will from 15 get to this point in his life?

Okay, so I'm 15, I'm living in a car in LA, and sometimes with my dad, and I'm staying on couches.

I end up my mom and my stepfather moved with the vehicle, with the bus that we lived in.

They moved up to Oakland, California.

So I ended up following them.

around 18, my mom had started a hat, jewelry, jewelry, incense, business on Telegraph Avenue.

Yes.

you know, in outside of in Berkeley, right on the street selling stuff.

So I go up there, I, and I knew I wanted to be musician, so I'm saving up.

So my mom started this business, and and I'm selling hats, and I saved up enough money to buy a bass.

And so I start playing with all these groups in Oakland and Berkeley, bunch of hip hop groups and some reggae bands.

and I stay there for a year, and I decide I'm going to go back to LA, you know, and I was living way below my means.

So at this point, I'm living with, Salvadorian family in, right outside of MacArthur Park.

Okay.

with a and I'm living in, basically in a closet with their teenage lesbian daughter and.

Yeah.

Perfect roommate then.

Yeah, not exactly, but their parents, they're super religious.

The only reason why they let me sleep in there, they thought maybe I would convert her into not being gay.

You know.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

yeah, I guess they didn't realize how that work.

No, but.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, so.

But you you actually say something that's really important here is that you are living, you know, below your means here.

You you are doing that.

I was it was $125 for one half of this giant closet that we lived in.

And she had a bed over there, and I had a bed here and like, that's.

Yes, that's what's important is.

And I was saving money already, you know, at this point I had maybe 250 bucks in the bank, which for me was a lot of money because I had a car that I had bought for 100 bucks, like, seriously.

And, there was a hoodie, but it was.

But it was a car.

It was, it got me around.

Yeah.

I had, yeah.

And, I had a bungee cord that would hold, go around the stick shift to the, to the passenger door that would hold that on.

So when I make lefts, it would, it would open and close driving.

Yeah.

And my seat, my seat was held by a basketball to the back seat.

Like that's how it was held out to me.

I'd roll around anyways.

yes.

So eventually, and eventually I got hired, by the LA Conservation Corps.

Yeah.

This was, post, 92 rebellion.

Yes.

So in L.A.

Okay.

So they, they poured, so they poured a bunch of money into LA to, to or that to, give opportunities to the youth.

Yeah.

And so I was a part of that program, and we, we worked out of la, theater center.

So I got a job there with it, with the Conservation Corps.

Yes.

we ended up developing a play, at the LA Theater Center with the Corps.

fast forward, we ended up, going on strike.

We tried to start a union in the corps.

We ended up going on strike, and we held a sit in in our building.

and we had a one month standoff with the Conservation Corps, and where we started a, and then what ended up happening through, through a mediation process with the Conservation Corps.

we got rights to the building for two years, and so we lost our jobs with the Conservation Corps.

but we started a cultural community center dedicated to arts, inner city youth, we call it the Peace and Justice Center.

And that's how Ozomatli got started.

So I'm still in Macy Gray, you know?

But but I'm doing all of this stuff as well.

And so, Ozomatli, is it because all of you are part of this, like, X conservation team that took over the building.

Or.

Do band members come in one by one and you start to think, how does that come together?

So we we were we started once we created this community center called the Peace and Justice Center.

We we started having benefits and parties out there.

And so to raise money, me and our original drummer, Anto Morales, we called all of our friends to come jam.

And that's how somebody got together.

A jam session.

Yeah, a jam session.

Yeah, basically, just.

Like our other guest was talking about jam sessions.

And so you come together to raise money.

And so this is when you really start to become a and how I've heard about your band is an LA institution in a way, because you started with opening doors for people to come in and listen to you jam.

Yeah, that's, that's how it.

And then that led to, you know, playing at art galleries and then eventually Hollywood called and said, I heard you, you know, you want to come play at the Viper Room.

So we play there and that's and playing in Hollywood and started selling out clubs in Hollywood like small clubs.

That's when the, the Hollywood started.

hearing about us, which is, which is really interesting when you think about it.

Hollywood's only a couple of miles, you know, from where we started, however, it's it's a world away.

It's a huge journey away.

It's a huge journey for the youth of, Yeah.

You know, and so we need to, you know, as people like myself, need to create more pipelines for, you know, the youth that grow up.

We have so much talent.

I know in the city, you know, we have so much talent.

And there needs to be more interaction between these giant corporations in Hollywood and the city because most of Hollywood is made up from people from other, other places.

You know, which is really interesting that you would say that is that we have talent right in our backyard.

But we're actually leaving our backyard to get the talent and bring them in.

So when that happens, though, in in the case of Ozomatli, at this point, that's when Hollywood reaches out to you, you start to record your first album.

Yeah.

Oh well.

And yeah, yeah, we start, so we get signed.

Yeah.

But before that was the first time I had ever been to a fancy restaurant, you know, because they start wining and dining you and they star, you know.

Yes.

And that's where, you know, the first time I ever had duck pizza like, do you eat duck?

Like.

Okay, I seen it in Chinatown.

No, but like, yeah, like, but, yeah.

So we end up getting signed.

And so with that is we get a lawyer, so.

Well, we get a manager, we get him.

Do they get you the manager?

Do you get.

The you know, we got the manager.

Okay, so before this, this woman, Amy, saw us at the Viper Room and said, you know, I work for this record company.

I'm the assistant, but I want to work with you guys.

And and so she and, she says, come by the office, I want to talk to you.

So she comes by at this.

At this point, I'm doing everything for the band.

I'm getting all the gigs.

I set up these packages that I sent out to all the festivals in LA that have, like, a tape, a picture, a bio, you know.

In your own.

Press kit.

Yeah, exactly.

And so I'm sending them out everywhere and I'm getting gigs.

she comes in, she's like, I want to work with you guys.

And I said, okay, well, here's 20 press kits.

I'm going to say, I'm not going to give you any, any of my contacts, but you go get your own.

Within six months, she had more than I did.

You know, she was.

And, you know, at this time, the band didn't even know that we had it, that somebody working, you know, the rest of the guys.

but anyways.

And so she ended up when, when we got signed, she, she was kind of the liaison between the label and us.

Yes.

And, and then we started interviewing, attorneys, music attorneys.

And we really like this woman named Lisa Lansky.

And so you go through these early days where you start to figure out who you are as a band.

You all stay together as you hit some of these, like, more impossible parts of the tour.

That's the nicest way I'm going to put it.

And but at some point, because, believe it or not, we're getting to the end of our conversation.

And so at some point you will dog decides that I need to advocate for.

Yeah, musicians so that they are financially solvent.

Yeah.

What what what event pushed you to start to move into this new direction?

Because you're you're still an artist.

You still have your band, but now you have this personal mission.

Yeah.

Well, that I can just tell you my story.

So.

Yeah, my story is I saved, you know, when we got signed, we got 5000 bucks.

I put that into the bank.

I didn't touch it.

Like I didn't buy anything.

Like I was so scared, you know, because of my past.

Yeah, because of my past.

I was so scared, I didn't know.

And $5,000.

Like I said, I went from 250 in the bank to 5250.

But you were already starting to save, so you were already training your mind to save.

Even with that 250 I.

Was and I was living way below my means and I wasn't buying, you know, my car was still a hoodie.

I didn't buy a car.

You know, another guy, you know, they're getting cars with rims.

Wow.

You know.

Yeah.

And I just kept my hoodie.

I didn't buy anything I saved.

I ended up saving about 40,000.

It took me.

It took me about four years.

Wow.

But I saved $40,000, and I.

And I kept my lifestyle.

And then I ended up buying a house in Silver Lake.

Oh, yes.

Yes, when I was 28.

And with the thing with with success.

Because I had all this trauma from from childhood.

Yes.

I always had this vision of myself that I was going to end up on the street again.

I always had this vision of me pushing.

I was either going to be in jail, dead or on the street.

Those are my like.

And I always had this like vision.

So my whole life had been like, like kind of like fighting against that or realizing where I am in the moment.

I'm not there, you know?

I'm not there.

I, I've got 40 grand in the bank, and I'm about to put it down on a house in Silver Lake, and still.

Filling.

But I'm still feeling.

Old.

And old dog.

Yeah.

And that and I'm feeling that everybody in my life has been telling me you're never going to make it.

You.

You got to get something else.

Music is so vital, you know, volatile.

You're never going to make it so I have that.

So once, once we once I had my house and I did everything that I thought I was going to do.

Now, all those demons came back into me, back to me.

And so I went out.

I, started using drugs heavily, you know, using drugs more.

And that 40 grand that I had in the bank went away really quick.

eventually I, I asked my band for help, and they found a organization called MusiCares that's with the Grammys.

And I went to rehab.

Yeah.

And I was in rehab for a month.

Came out.

that was in, 2003.

And I've been clean ever since.

and, so since then, you know, I've, I have a child, you know, who's 19 years old, about to be 20. you know, I have a house.

I ended up getting married, to my wife.

we, you know, who's a veterinarian, and we own animal hospital, and so.

But even but even now, I'm still working on those things, so I think I think the main thing is, is like, if you come across money and you don't know or like for me, when I came across money and I didn't know what to do with it, you know, find somebody that does.

And that's why, you know, I have a banker named Sergio.

Yes.

You know, who advises me on where to put my money, you know.

And you mentioned that the Grammys, they have a nonprofit to help musicians when they want to go to rehab.

I mean, do you think that the industry should also have a nonprofit to help musicians when they sign that first contract to teach them how to save and so that they can buy property, move on just in case their singing career doesn't happen.

You know, like you said, it changes day and night.

Absolutely.

And and also because many, many we're dealing with a lot of young people, especially when you're first making it, you know.

So yeah, absolutely.

I wish there was more, you know, more help for that.

Absolutely.

I have so enjoyed our conversation.

This is then wonderful.

And just to not only hear about your life, but to hear about what you're advocating for.

And when we talk about finance and education.

So my last question for you is what is next for Will doc.

will next is to share.

You know, next for me is just sharing, you know, my knowledge.

also by learning, you know, I, I'm actually, I've never stop learning.

I'm, I'm in music school right now.

I'm at, like, taking two music courses.

Yeah.

Since the pandemic, I've been in my third semester.

so, yeah, for me, it's just about sharing what I have, with other people and just continuing to give.

Well, thank you so much.

Thank you for everything that you've been doing to advocate for musicians.

But thank you for coming on this show and sharing a personal part of your life that I'm sure will be encouraging people as they watch our interview.

I appreciate that little dog, and you definitely keep in touch with us, because one day we want to get you in the studio and have you singing with your group.

So absolutely.

Wonderful.

And thank you for joining us on everybody with Angela Williamson.

Viewers like you make this show possible.

Join us on social media to continue this conversation.

Good night and stay well.