[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - Welcome to "The Songwriters."

I'm Ken Paulson, and it is my pleasure today to welcome a very special guest, Bob DePiero.

Good to see you, Bob.

- Good to see you, Ken.

Pleasure to be here.

- I, um, I have great admiration for everyone who sits across from me in this chair, their artistry, their accomplishments.

But I have to tell you you're all over my record collection.

- Ah.

- My favorite records of the last oh, let's just say, quarter-century, so often have your name on them.

- Wow.

- And, uh, I have a hunch, it's in part because, um, there's a rock vein which was always my first love.

Running through your stuff it's energetic, it's up-tempo, it's often anthemic.

And then I read your bio and I realized you were in a rock and roll band in the '60s and '70s.

- Um- - Oh, yeah.

- What kind of stuff did you do?

Who did you cover in that rock and roll band?

[laughs] -Well, um, I was in several rock and roll bands at the time.

I was, you know, you kind of worked your way up the food chain where I grew up, in Youngstown, Ohio.

It was a real, like, hotbed of rock and roll when I grew up.

You know, you could go see The James Gang playing for 50 cents at the place called, The Freak Out, you know?

[laughs] You know, you'd go see Bob Seeger at a club, you know, and I would go see these guys.

I'm going, "You mean to tell me, "every little town like I'm living in, has guys like this?

"I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm screwed."

[laughter] I'm never gonna be like that, you know.

But it really, uh, it really showed me what the difference between good and great was.

I mean, these guys were serious.

That's the first thing I got from seeing those kind of people.

It was, they're totally serious about this.

This is not something they're doing on the weekend for beer money, you know.

- Right.

[laughs] - And so that was my, that was my focus.

I wanna, I wanna do that.

And, you know, Ohio, at least when I was coming up, there wasn't a lot of country music- - No.

- there, just wasn't.

- No.

- You know, there may have been a country music station that I've never listened to but- there was all this rock and roll coming up, you know, there was just everything.

And, and, the bands I was in, we, we kind of played everything.

We played everything from The Stones to The Beatles, to the, ah, you know, real esoteric English rock bands like Spooky Tooth [laughs] and Atomic Rooster- - Oh, wow.

- These crazy bands, you know, and, ah, and everything in between.

You know, we played Allman Brothers, we played, ah, The Byrds, we were big Byrds fans and- - Were you lead guitar and vocalist?

- I was, ah- in some of them I was lead guitarist and vocalist, but a lot of them we had a lead vocalist.

And I was kind of- which to this day is still my, my most comfortable place, I was like the second banana.

I didn't want to be Mick Jagger, but I loved being Keith Richards.

[laughs] - I love playing rhythm, you know, you know, just nailing that groove, that meant so much to me.

So I did a lot of that.

I mean, I played leads but, and I sang leads, but it was all about the groove for me, you know.

- So what year did you move to Nashville to become a songwriter?

- I moved to Nashville in 1978 on Halloween night.

- Okay.

[laughter] - I was playing in a band at the time called, The Great Lakes band.

And, uh, they let me use their equipment truck to move all my stuff down to Nashville, you know.

So I moved down here on Halloween night and showed up and nobody- I always said, nobody sent for me.

[laughs] I just kind of showed up, you know.

And, you know, I always said that Nashville chose me.

I didn't choose Nashville.

Country music chose me because I was this rock and roll guy, you know?

I was ready to do whatever that meant at the time, you know?

But there was just something that when I first came to Nashville it was just like, was a love thing.

I just got it.

- So, I'm a little puzzled, though.

If you're in a club, playing Spooky Tooth, how do you make the transition and say, "I think I've got something Barbara Mandrell will record."

- Well, I don't think I ever had something Barbara Mandrell wanted to record.

[laughs] But to me I think that's why songwriting worked for me because we were playing all this rock stuff, but I also loved, ah, you know, anything out of Detroit, you know, anything from all that great music they were making up there, ah, all the stuff from, ah, Memphis, you know, all that great soul music.

And I think that's why it worked for me to be a songwriter because I could wake up in the morning and go, "Man, I'm kind of feeling like I want to rock today."

or "Man, I'd love to do a six- eight R&B kind of vibe today."

And when I started really sinking my teeth into real country music, I, ah, I just started consuming it, you know?

- Yeah.

- It just became like, I want to know what this is.

This is a new form.

It's a new musical form.

The lyrics are so important to this genre of music.

I want to write lyrics like that.

I want to speak to the people in the way that they speak.

And to me, it was all about learning that language and everything that came with that language.

- So how long from the time you moved to Nashville until a point where you could actually pay your rent with your songwriting?

[picks guitar] - Well, it took a while.

Not as long as some, I mean, ah- I made my living teaching guitar lessons, giving guitar lessons.

I lived in Green Hills, Nashville.

But the place I found that I could teach guitar, was in Rivergate, which is quite a ways from Green Hills.

And these days it'll take you four days to get up there- [laughter] ...with the traffic.

And it took a long time then, you know.

I would take a bus from Green Hills to downtown Nashville, change there and go up to Rivergate, teach guitar.

And I did that for quite some time, you know.

And I remember the first gold record I ever had was, The Oak Ridge Boys, "American Made."

And I remember going to my guitar lesson, I had students- I had a bunch of students at the time, there were like, 60 students, a cup of coffee every half hour, you know, at the end of that, you know.

And, ah, I remember going up there after I had this Number One Party.

And I had my gold album, [laughs] and I was sitting at the back of a Metro bus [laughs] with my gold album, like this, you know.

And people were turning around, they were going, "What, what?

He's got a gold album back there."

- That man stole somebody's gold album.

- He stole somebody's gold album and we should call 911.

[laughs] - But, I, it, it probably was four or five years until I could finally just sign off on doing nothing but writing and performing and playing on sessions, and that kind of stuff.

- In retrospect, you could not have had a better first number one.

- Ah, no.

- Not only because it was a hit but because of it's amazing afterlife in the commercial world.

So, Bob, can you do us a great favor of playing, "American Made?"

- Sure I can.

- What year is this by the way?

[strums guitar] - This was, ah, 1983.

- Well, that's a good year for a song mentioning America alive The heart of the Reagan Administration.

- Everybody was, uh, on the same page- - There you go.

- It seemed.

- Yeah.

- You know?

[strums guitar] ♪ Seems everything I buy these days, has got a foreign name.

♪ ♪ From the kind of car I drive, to my video games.

♪ ♪ I got a Nikon camera, a Sony color TV, ♪ ♪ But the one I love is from the USA laying next to me.

♪ ♪ And my baby is American made, born and bred in the USA, ♪ ♪ From her silky long hair to her sexy long legs, ♪ ♪ My baby is American made.

♪ [strumming guitar] ♪ Now, she looks good in her tight blue jeans ♪ ♪ She bought in Mexico.

♪ ♪ And she loves wearing French perfume everywhere we go.

♪ ♪ But when it comes to the loving part, ♪ ♪ One thing is true.

♪ ♪ My baby's genuine USA, red, white and blue.

♪ ♪ My baby is American made, born and bred in the USA.

♪ ♪ From her silky long hair to her sexy long legs, ♪ ♪ My baby is American made.

♪ ♪ Yeah, my baby is American made.

♪ ♪ Oh, my baby is American made.

♪ - Yeah, that's a great song.

- There it is.

- And, suddenly, you were really a Nashville songwriter.

A successful- and, and tell me you took the proceeds and bought a car.

- Of course, I did.

[laughs] - Was it a hot car, a sports car?

You know, it was kind of sort of.

It was kind of sort of a sports car.

It was, ah, it was Audi- at the time.

[chuckles] Audi came out with this new really, ah, futuristic looking kind of bubbly car, you know, it's kind of almost like a bubble but- Of course, went, I went out and bought that and, ah, spent it.

[laughs] - So here's a test of how confident you were.

How long did it take for you to cut loose your 60 students?

- It took a while.

- Oh yeah?

[laughs] - Yeah.

You needed one more hit to be secure.

Because I knew that, ah, you know, I- I, I was very much a student.

I've always been a student of music, you know, and I've always just studied, you know.

And, when I'd be around Combine, which was this great independent publishing company of people, like, Kris Kristofferson would flow through there and Tony Joe White, and, of course, there was John Scott Sherrill, and Steve Earle used to hang out there, you know.

And just hanging out and listening to stories I would hear stories about, "Well, this guy got this hit, and he went out and bought "this and that, and then two years later, he was broke."

You know, I'm going, "Well, that hurts.

"That probably hurts, you know.

"So I don't want to spend it all.

"I'll spend a lot of it, but not all of it."

- Well, you've got 15 number one hits and counting, and, so, you probably could buy a new car occasionally.

- I've been known.

- Okay.

- I've been known to buy a new car occasionally.

- So of those 15 number one hits, how many were co-writes?

- Ah-h-h- - It doesn't have to be a precise number, but- - Most of them.

- Yeah?

- Most of them, because you know, like, a lot of, at least what I think, a lot of writers, when they first come to town, they're kind of all- or they're kind of in this vacuum.

Unless they're with a group of writers or they're in a musical group, or they have a partner, you know, they're most- I mostly wrote by myself back in Youngstown.

As a matter of fact, the first song I ever had recorded was a song I wrote by myself that this brand new girl named Reba McEntire- - Wow.

- ...recorded it and it was called, "I Can See Forever in Your Eyes."

And I'd written it by myself while I was teaching guitar.

I was just kind of messing around with- [strums guitar softly] Kind of pretty- [strums guitar softly] You know, just some pretty changes, you know, and, ah- ♪ La, la la-la, na-na, na-na I can see for- ♪ ♪ I can see forever in your eyes.

♪ That was my rock and roll part.

♪ I can see a love that never dies.

♪ [chuckles] ♪ When your laying down, I realize ♪ ♪ That I can see forever in your eyes.

♪ [laughs] - I love that.

And, if she had passed, that's a Roy Orbison song right there.

- It could have been.

- No question.

[laughs] - Because I was just- I mean, I was- I was in my, my, ah, my little cubby hole studio, where I taught guitar and somebody had not shown up, and I just started messing around.

- So is that on her first album?

- It was on her first album.

- Wow.

- Jerry Kennedy, ah, produced it, and I remember my publisher at the time, Bob Beckham, said, "Well, son, you got this song recorded."

I was going, "Well, I don't care who it is, "somebody recorded it, I'm thrilled, "I'm on, I'm on, I'm on the board."

And it happened to be this new girl named Reba McEntire who's gone on to record half a dozen of my songs.

- So she owes it all to you.

- She owes every bit of her career- [chuckles] - So when you are looking for a co-writer- and I know that you probably get approached in shopping malls, somebody's saying I have a great idea for you to co-write, um, and I'm sure you move away quickly.

- I will.

- But, but, if there's a dating service for songwriters, what traits are you looking for in your co-writers?

Something that compliments you?

Or- - Ah- you know, what I found that works, and I found this out by, by, ah, trial and error, is somebody that doesn't do what I do, and I don't do what they do, but if we're on the same level, then we have that opportunity to one and one equals three, to be synergistic, to add things that maybe I wouldn't think of or my co-writer would think of, and, ah, those seem to be where the best songs showed up.

I mean, I have friends that I would just want to write with them just because I- we were friends.

You know, John Scott Sheriil and I wrote tons of songs just because we were buddies and we wrote songs because we like writing songs, you know, and, ah, then there were some people that were really, [smacks lips] ah, more what would you call them, co-writers.

I mean, they weren't necessarily my blood brother, best buddies, but I realized that there was something of value writing with these people, you know.

- Do you have an example of how the different talents combined into a hit record?

- Well, the best, the best one, I don't know that you can tell, but, ah, Tom Shapiro who is a great- [strums guitar] great songwriter, you know, just an amazing- [strums guitar] ah, Hall of Fame songwriter.

He and I started writing because another friend of mine, Gary Burr who is a great songwriter, [strums guitar] said, "You guys ought to write together."

And, I said, "Well, alright, I'm willing.

Sure, why not?"

And Tom really was much more methodical in his way of writing.

I could tell he had some sort of, of, maybe a formula of how he would approach writing a song.

Where I was just count to four and hope for the best.

[laughs] You know, and, ah- [strums guitar] and that's who I was, you know.

And, I remember, ah, he would really have a focus on something.

And I remember one day he came and goes, [strums guitar] "Look, I've got this idea and I've showed it to several people "and they all tell me, what else you got?"

[strums guitar] Nobody really likes it.

[strums guitar] But, ah, it starts off with, "Woke up this morning "My head felt dense [laughter] "Splashed it with water, trying to make it make sense."

And go, "Whoa, alright."

[laughs] - And then immediately I remembered this philosophy professor in college I had who said, "Don't judge your art.

"Let others judge it for you.

"Just do the work."

So here I was with Tom Shapiro, I said, "All right-" ♪ Woke up this morning my head felt dense.

♪ ♪ Splashed it with water trying to make it make sense.

♪ ♪ Stumbled to the kitchen, she was standing at the sink ♪ ♪ All she's got to do is just to give me that wink.

♪ ♪ And slam-bam I'm feeling alright ♪ ♪ Trouble takes a hike in the blink of an eye.

♪ ♪ No need to psychoanalyze or have a stiff drink.

♪ ♪ All she gotta do is just give me that wink.

♪ - Yes.

- Etcetera, and, ah-.

And, so it was one of those songs I was like, "Well, okay, there it is, you know."

And, I rocked it because I didn't know much else to do and, ah, it became the BMI Song of the Year.

[laughs] - Did Mr. Shapiro step back and go, "That was amazing."?

- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[laughs] He was like, "That's perfect."

[laughs] And, you know, it's- - That's a great story.

- It's a very, very true story.

I really, I like putting lyrics in songs that I like.

I call them, "juicy words" like, don't need to psychoanalyze.

[laughs] I don't need to psychoanalyze or have a stiff drink.

All she got to do is look at me and I'm ready.

All she gotta do is give me that wink.

- And that was Neal McCoy?

- Neal McCoy - Huge record, huge record.

- Huge record number one, BMI Songwriter of the Year, Song of the Year.

- So, um, when you get inducted into this hall we ask that you, um, you give us a song you think above all else, I, I love this song, it represents my art, and we put it on the steps to a building in downtown Nashville.

- Yes.

- And people can step on it for a long period of time, and that was "American Made."

Um, if we'd given you three steps, what would those songs have been?

- Wow, that's a good story.

That's a good question.

[strums guitar] Well, I really, uh, you know, if you ask me this tomorrow I'd probably give you three different songs.

Because it always, it's always changing, you know, it's, it's, it's always changing, but- [strums guitar] I really loved, "Southern Voice."

That's another song that has, like, what I call juicy words, you know, it has a word Apalachicola in it.

It's a small little fishing village in the Panhandle of Florida, and it's just all about the thousand people in it, you know.

[strums guitar] ♪ Hank Williams sang it, number three he wrote it, ♪ ♪ Chuck Berry twanged it, Will Faulkner wrote it, ♪ ♪ Aretha Franklin sold it, Dolly Parton graced it, ♪ ♪ Rosa Parks wrote it, Scarlett O chased it.

♪ ♪ Smooth as the hickory wind ♪ ♪ That blows from Memphis down to Apalachicola ♪ ♪ It's, "Hi, y'all, did ya eat?

♪ ♪ "Well, come on in child, I'm sure glad to know ya."

♪ ♪ Don't let that old gold cross ♪ ♪ and that Allman Brothers t-shirt throw ya.

♪ ♪ With cicadas making noise ♪ ♪ with the Southern voice.

♪ [strumming guitar] ♪ Yeah.

Yeah.

♪ - Oh, yeah.

- You know, and we just- I wrote that with, ah, Tom Douglas and we'd, we'd gone on to this thing of doing shoutouts to people from the south who had, ah, kind of- what that old hillbilly, ah, Steve Jobs said, "Put a dent in the universe," you know, [laughs] - and just started name checking people in the song.

- I could see Tom as a co-writer on this, ah, he's also a very thoughtful songwriter, and a topical one, too.

- And I've always- [strums guitar] loved, ah- [strumming guitar] "Blue Clear Sky" because it was, ah- it's just- it was interesting to me.

-Yeah.

Because, of course, it's backwards.

- Right.

- It's clear blue sky.

I mean, when George Strait cut it, he actually called me from the studio- [laughs] -Called me, I don't know how he got my phone number.

He goes, "Hey, man, don't you think- "don't you think this song should be called, "Clear Blue Sky" not "Blue Clear-" We're from Texas.

We don't say, "Blue clear skies."

[laughs] George Strait on the phone- I don't know what to tell him, So I told him about going to see- I went to see Forrest Gump and the fact that Forrest Gump said, "I didn't see Jenny "and then out of the blue clear sky I got a letter from her."

It stuck in my head.

The fact that he said that and the fact that it was real.

He goes, "Well, all right, well then we'll be gumpsters then."

[laughter] And he hung up and he cut the song.

It was a multi-week number one, and, ah, and then he named his album, "Blue Clear Sky."

And that became the CMA Album of the Year.

[strums guitar] - I, I didn't realize Forrest had a co-write on this song.

- He had a co-write, pal.

- And, ah- - But I didn't tell him.

- Yeah?

[laughs] -Well, that, that begs us- uh, please play that.

[strums guitar] - I'll do it.

♪ You swear you had enough.

♪ ♪ You're ready to give up ♪ ♪ On that little lie they call love.

♪ ♪ Then out of the blue clear sky, ♪ ♪ Falling right into your hand ♪ ♪ Like rain on the desert sand ♪ ♪ It's the last thing you had planned.

♪ ♪ Then out of the blue clear sky ♪ [strums guitar] ♪ Here she comes a walkin' talkin' true love ♪ ♪ Saying I've been looking for you, love.

♪ ♪ Surprise, your new love has arrived ♪ ♪ Out of the blue clear sky.

♪ [strums guitar] [gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - For more information about the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, please visit, nashvillesongwritersfoundation .com [gentle guitar music]