This is Gulf Coast Life.

I'm Mike Kiniry.

Thanks for joining us.

In early 2023, a small group of Southwest Floridians met to discuss what they saw as autocratic trends unfolding in Florida and beyond.

Not long after that first meeting, just over three years ago, they formed a nonpartisan nonprofit called Floridians for democracy.

They've since grown incredibly and have members beyond the Sunshine State.

On Tuesday, June 16th at 7 p.m., they're presenting a program called Guardians of Democracy Speaking Truth to Power.

And today we're getting a bit of a preview.

Joining us remotely is Floridians for democracy co-founder and retired Lee health, CEO of 34 years and adjunct professor at FGCU.

Jim Nathan, welcome back to the show, Jim.

Mike, thank you very much for having us.

And in studio, I'm joined by Doctor Robert Hilliard or Bob, as he's known to most.

He's a humanitarian, author, educator, and former professor and dean at Emerson College, among many other noteworthy things, including being a founding member of Floridians for democracy.

Great to see you, Bob.

Thank you very much.

We're pleased to be with you, Mike.

And Jeff Cole is a founding member of Floridians for democracy.

He's former executive editor of Florida Weekly.

And before that, he was a reporter for the News Press back in the early 2000.

Thanks for coming in, Jeff.

Yeah, thanks for having us, Mike.

Jim, let's start with you remotely up there in North Carolina.

What's Floridians for democracy been up to in recent months?

You know, and Jeff, chime in at any point during this catch up phase.

Sure.

We've continued our efforts to provide education on a regular basis to participants.

We've grown to just under 3000 people, mostly in Florida, heavily southwest Florida, but all over the state.

And quite a few people have joined us on a national basis.

We've been working closely with many state based pro-democracy organizations, as well as national organizations, and learning and growing from each other.

Our challenge really is bringing people together, and to realize that you might have a passion, whether that's the environment or women's reproductive rights or racial justice, whatever it might be.

But if we lose democracy in Florida and in the nation, all those issues become non-issue.

So we continue to provide educational programs, but in our programs, we always try to finish them with recommendations for what individuals can do individually as well as collectively.

So that's become very much a mantra.

Also, for the last year and a half, we have really made an effort to make sure that we demonstrate that we are truly cross Partizan.

We've had a number of attorneys and communication specialists known at a national level that have spoken of their concern.

We've done two programs with the leadership of the Cato Institute and to share their concerns about the loss of freedom as we move to a more autocratic direction in our nation.

So we find that this cross partizan concept is really important because it's not one party doing it by themselves.

It's the nation coming together and saying, we've had enough of this, we want our freedom back, and we want to be able to have a multicultural, loving, caring society instead of a society that's more about any society or more about a. A pushback against all of the rule of law.

So we identify the areas where we see fractions in the rule of law.

And so that's our educational portion.

We also work on advocacy.

A lot of that is on the local basis.

And we don't try to assume that we know it all, but we try to help work with other pro-democracy organizations and make sure that people show up for peaceful protests and be out on the streets like Jeff and Bob will be this this Sunday in in Fort Myers.

Tell us about the program that's happening on the June 16th.

Tuesday.

One of the most exciting programs we've done is really to recognize and honor a special individual.

You started by using a great word humanitarian.

Bob Hilliard truly is not just a war hero, not just a public broadcasting hero, not just a phenomenal professor, teacher, educator, multi book author, all of those things.

But he embodies speaking truth to power.

And he's done it all of his adult life.

And so we want to honor honor him.

But in doing that, as we were visualizing this program, we thought we would want to fill the program with individuals that maybe a lot of people wouldn't know, but that have been brave enough in today's world to speak up and speak truth to power.

That was going to be a challenge for us to find those individuals until we connected with an organization called home of the brave.

And if anybody's interested in looking them up, you have to go to of the brave.

Don't use the word home to stop the brave, but they have over 100 vignettes of individuals from around the country sharing how this autocratic movement has destroyed and damaged their lives or livelihood, and is continuing to do so.

But they've been brave enough to speak up and speak out, so we will have a few of them live on Tuesday night, and if we have time, we may show 1 or 2 of the short videos.

But most importantly, it will be the interaction with a couple of individuals.

We have a farmer from Ohio who was a political leader in the Republican Party in Ohio, who ended up going independent and then switching to the Democratic Party and is now Democratic leader.

And his focus isn't about Dems versus Republicans.

His focus is about freedom and the ability to have an effective job versus this power structure.

We'll also have a wounded Vietnam veteran who has has become very strong, and a lot of people aren't aware of him, and he'll be live with us.

So we'll do all of that on a special evening this coming Tuesday.

Where are you guys going to be protesting this weekend, Jeff?

Well, you know, Bob and I have been to every protest in Southwest Florida, I think.

Haven't we?

Yes we have.

And, you know, Bob's 101 will be 101 next week.

A few weeks.

Yeah.

So, you know, I think he's the nice thing about those protests is everybody wants to get their picture taken with Bob.

Well, I have been going in a wheelchair because I can't walk very far.

And so that attracts attention.

You don't have too many wheelchair people there.

But we do have others, and many of them are, like myself, a veteran of a war.

We know.

We know what happens in a country when we let a totalitarian leader to an political group take over.

And so I have been associated now with veterans for peace.

When you go to these protests, do you carry a sign?

Do you have particular signs that you reuse?

Do you make new signs?

I'm just curious.

Yeah.

Well, yes.

Now my wife Joanne and I have gone to every protest.

She has signs.

The last sign I used for No Kings protest was “No George III, no Donald I.” We've talked to you on the show over the years.

A number of times we talked to you when Floridians for democracy was first being put together three years ago.

I did a whole hour with you two years ago, which I went back and listened to this morning.

It was it was interesting to listen back.

You know, the years continue to go, the events continue to happen.

What is your big picture take on where we're at right now from your nearly 101 year old perspective?

The big picture right now for me is that I grew up in what I considered a democracy.

I do not feel that America is any longer a democracy.

I look at what is happening in Washington, and what I see are all the trappings.

Palpably a fascist government.

And I've devoted my life for what I consider democratic principles for everyone living in any country, but certainly in the United States.

And this is this is not something new for Bob.

He's been doing this for his entire life.

You know, he's been standing up for the little guy.

I mean, he saved thousands of Holocaust refugees over in World War Two after he'd been wounded in the Battle of the Bulge.

I mean, it didn't start there, and it's not going to finish here.

You know.

One thing you mentioned in passing, Bob, in a previous interview that I did with you that I kind of dug into for this was 27 years ago, I guess, when you were just 74.

You published a book called “Waves of Rancor: Tuning in the Radical Right”, with a guy named Michael Keith.

Michael.

Keith.

Yes.

And I dug into that.

And I don't know if you'd be surprised to know that that AI large language models know all about it.

I was able to ask them questions about it.

“Hilliard and Keith argued that the rise of right wing extremism didn't happen in a vacuum, but was actively fueled by the deliberate, highly savvy utilization of modern electronic media.” So that was in 1999.

I guess my question is we have so many even more ways to communicate today.

Would.

Are you surprised that this kind of movement can rise up in a time when exchanging information about it is so easy?

Yes.

Mike and I wrote that book.

I remember we were listening to radio.

We both have a very.

Mike Keith now has published about 30 books of what he calls short fiction.

And in fact, just the other day he was on a zoom promoting a book, and the first time I've seen him now in 11 years, Mike and I were listening to radio, and that time radio was the principal medium for hate groups, for far right groups.

And we thought, my goodness, this this is really an astounding kind of thing, what they're doing.

Has anybody written about this?

And so we looked into it and we went further than radio because that was the beginning when we wrote that book.

That was the beginning of their use of the internet for hate sites.

We began to check some of these hate sites.

We found that at one point, there were as many as 2000 hate sites going on and off in any year in this country, and 20,000 perhaps doing the same internationally.

Now that is using the new technology at that time and the hate groups, and we're talking about Ku Klux Klan and skinheads and neo-Nazi groups in this country recruiting young people, particularly disaffected young people.

So we decided to write that book.

And I remember one one day I was reading The New York Times, and in it said that our book “Waves of Rancor: Tuning in the Radical Right”, was chosen by president Bill Clinton as one of the 12 books on his recommended leading us for that year.

And I picked up the phone and called Mike.

We could retire.

Actually, the book did very well on the Amazon listing.

For a few hours, we thought we were going to have a bestseller and we could have.

Sadly, there's an old story going with that because the woman who was the promotional manager at M.E.

Sharpe, the publisher, lived new Jersey, took her daughter one day to a theme park, went on one of the big carousels that go up and around.

They were in the last car.

It fell off, they were killed, and everybody was devastated.

So there was no immediate follow up.

And the book did fine, but it was not the blockbuster and we did not retire.

You know, when you were a kid, you know, news came through newspapers and radio and, and it took a lot longer than it takes now.

And you said at the beginning of our conversation that you were afraid that we were not we weren't living in a functioning democracy.

It's easier to share misinformation and disinformation, but it's also easier to share good information.

Do you think that is any level of protection during these times compared to other times in our history?

You know, when there's a revolution or change of control in any given country, what's the first thing they take over?

Not the treasury, not the educational institutions, not even the airport.

They take over the radio and television and other media, because those in the world today are the strongest, the most effective ways of controlling people's minds, emotions and even behavior.

Well, public radio is still going strong despite rescission of funding.

Yes.

You were in the media business, Jeff.

You were in the newspaper business.

What are your thoughts on that idea of, you know, we all still can say what we want to say.

We all still nobody's stopping us from saying the things that we want to say.

I mean, there may be efforts to do that, but, you know, to people who say, oh, it's not as serious as you guys are saying it is, you know, we're still able to have this conversation and put it on the radio.

Yes.

But can a media company that is controlled by X, Y, Z do that, you know, can not do that or can can you do that in Southwest Florida?

Can you, you know, be an An honest reporter in Southwest Florida?

Well, you know, you're going to upset some advertisers.

So, you know, they tend to put a little bit of a control on that.

And I guess there's what's happened at 60 minutes and there's, you know, and CBS radio is now off the air after 100 years of doing news and things like that.

Jim, what are your thoughts on this whole notion of the ability to express ourselves hasn't been stamped out down to the individual level, but where do you think we are overall?

I think it is happening at the individual level already that there are many people are afraid to speak up, they're afraid for their jobs, their livelihood.

And that really is what spurred us at the very beginning of starting this organization, this effort where individuals that before we ever heard of something like project 2025 or many of the actions that have been happening nationally or in the state, when we were watching and people having fear, I met a gentleman who was an excellent.

His expertise was in teaching black history, and he looked at me and he said, I can.

I have three children, I can hardly afford to pay for my house and my rent, but I can't afford to lose my job.

But I don't know what I'm allowed to say anymore.

This effort to whitewash black education or to black wash white education, however you want to look at it, it's happening and it's real and it's very concerning.

And no, it's not to the level now where we've been shut down.

But I think this is where Bob comes in.

As such a great hero, because he knows what the pieces are that begin to crumble.

He knows the pressure he was under, even as a successful war hero, Purple Heart, but from the military leadership, not wanting him to express his stories back to President Truman at that time, this these fears of being able to express are real and they're growing.

And I the ones you rattled off just a couple of minutes ago, Mike, they're happening right in front of our eyes.

And we did a program with a phenomenal attorney, less than just a little bit less than two years ago.

And the title of it was sleepwalking into a. It's easy to deny that all these things are happening, but when you look at the warning signals, they're all around us, and it's not the cry wolf.

It's to say, we need to speak out now while we're still allowed to do so, because who knows, a year from now, if we just stay silent, will we really still be able to speak out?

Yes, we can do it today.

But what about tomorrow, Bob?

You know, we've already pointed out that you're about to turn 101.

When you were a kid, the Civil War was only as far back as the civil rights movement is to us today.

In other words, you've seen a lot of arcs of history.

What do you think that perspective gives you?

And why should people respect the perspectives of people like you more?

Because of that expansive view of history?

Well, I don't think age really is a factor.

People can make their decisions in terms of what they believe the world and people should look like and experience at any time, at any age.

However, I think age does give you an advantage if you want to use it.

I was an adult in my 20s during the McCarthyism era, and people say, well, this isn't a terrible what's going on now?

And I keep saying it is not yet reached the kind of thing that happened under Joe McCarthy and so-called McCarthyism at that time.

For example, you could be fired by from your job.

You could even end up in jail.

Guilt by accusation as one.

Writer, I believe at the time, wrote, three dirty postcards from an empty lot can make any advertiser do anything because it was the advertisers who were responsible for McCarthyism and the blacklist.

I knew a number of people who were put on the blacklist.

They had no idea why somebody would write an anonymous letter to their boss.

This guy consorts with the fellow travelers or Reds or communists.

It'd be a job the next day and not know why.

We've not yet reached that point, but with the kinds of things that the current administration is doing to control the media for mind control in this country, we may soon reach that point.

And given the kind of government organization we have at this very moment before the next elections, if we're going to have elections, we may very well surpass the kind of mind control, end of free speech and press and assembly that we almost had in the McCarthy era.

Are there any encouraging things, Bob, that you see?

Good question Jeff.

No, no, seriously.

Yes.

Encouraging things.

We're doing it right now.

We have people like Jim Nathan who took the lead to develop an organization that's going to fight to retain democracy.

And we believe it's not too late to return and save democracy in this country.

That's why we're here.

That's where we're organized.

That's why there is a Tuesday evening zoom for as many people in the world who can turn in, and we let them know what is happening.

And we ask them, ask them to take a stand, and we're going to tell them some of the things that they can do to save democracy.

We're pretty much out of time.

But I have to ask one last question, Bob.

You got any plans for your 101st birthday?

Oh, no.

My my kids.

I have a son, a daughter who sun up in New Hampshire.

My daughter is is one of the leading lawyers in the area of.

Okay.

Senior moment just occurred.

That's okay.

Okay.

My daughter is leading civil liberties lawyers in the country.

They are not sure what they're going to do, how they're going to celebrate my birthday.

But my wife and I just booked a cruise for early July, so we're going to celebrate that way.

And at this point, you know, when you reach this age, it's like you want to please other people, but you think, well, how many more years do I have?

Maybe I ought to start pleasing myself.

So we're going in.

Your second century?

Yeah.

Well, I was lucky enough to be at your 100th birthday party, and I was able to wish you a happy birthday.

So happy birthday a few weeks ahead of time.

Thank you, Mike, and you have been just terrific every time I've been with you.

And Joanne says he is the best interviewer she's ever heard.

She's probably right.

Well.

Any great?

Any last thoughts?

Jeff?

I'll give you the last word, Jim.

But, Jeff.

No, I think that there are some encouraging things out there.

And I think if you go to the corner of Daniels and 41 on Sunday between ten and noon, I think you'll see that, Jeff.

Jim.

Rather, I'm going to give you the final word.

Tune in Tuesday's night.

Michael give you the the link for it to anybody that has a registration is welcome to come.

And we have a surprise.

So don't you listen, Bob.

We will be awarding after.

Bob my ears.

We'll be awarding doctor Bob Hilliard with a lifetime achievement as the guardian of democracy.

Jim Nathan is co-founder of Floridians for democracy.

Thank you so much, Jim.

Mike, thank you very much for having us.

Jeff Cole is a Floridians for democracy founding member and former newspaper man.

Thank you Jeff.

Sure.

Thanks, Mike.

And doctor Bob Hilliard is a humanitarian, author, educator, playwright, former professor and dean, World War II veteran, and former chief of public broadcasting at the FCC.

He was there when the Act was signed.

Thank you so much, Bob.

It's always a pleasure to have you in the studio.

And I thank you, Mike, because you're always so good and so wonderful with your interviews.

Thank you.

Floridians for democracy is hosting an event called Guardians of Democracy Speaking Truth to Power on Tuesday, June 16th at 7 p.m.. They're going to be presenting Bob with an award, and they'll also be hearing from a Vietnam veteran named Ron Eaton and a Ohio farmer named Chris Gibbs, who was a leader in the Ohio Republican Party for 20 years before leaving it behind in response to recent times.

Their website for more information is Floridians for democracy.

Our show today was produced by yours truly with technical support from David Oquendo and Matt Krause.

For now, thanks for listening, Im Mike Kiniry.

This is Fort Myers 90.1 w MKO Marco Island 91.7 FM.

We are NPR for Southwest Florida.