♪ >> Murray State University is celebrating its centennial birthday this year.

I talked with the president of MSU about his presidency career and a new book that these coauthored called the Finest place.

We know a centennial history of Murray State University 1922.

Through 2022, a conversation with Doctor Bob Jackson.

That's now on connections.

♪ ♪ Thank you for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

I am so delighted to visit today with Murray State University President Bob Jackson, who I came to know many years ago.

25 actually when he served in the Kentucky state Senate, he's been a champion for MSU for years before he became president for more than 30 years.

You may know Murray State has consistently ranked among the top regional universities in the South by U.S. News and World Report to celebrate the institutions.

One 100th birthday, Doctor Jackson is coauthor.

This book called The Finest Place.

We know a centennial history at Murray State University 1922.

To 2022 Doctor Jackson is so good to see you.

The next great.

See, you know, I'm a racist are urged to call you Senator Jackson.

Because back in the day we were just reminiscing before we started to take 25 years ago, you said at this particular moment you were campaigning.

>> I was it's hard to believe it was 25 years ago.

So, you know, started very, yeah.

We did.

We were just What you had a very distinguished career in the state Senate.

And I look back on those years.

I mean, I was so young and so green and I learned from people like you who I watched and admired how you conducted yourself and had such reverence for the institution regardless of party.

You know, you worked for the public good.

Do you miss those days?

>> Renee, I I don't miss the drive, right?

But but I love the policy work.

I love the people I serve with some wonderful people.

I got to work with you and many others.

But those are great memories.

Great memories.

And and as we were talking before, the show started, you know, driving up, still driving up Capitol Avenue today.

Gives you goosebumps and it's it's a it's a special place.

It's an honor to serve there in those who had that honor to get to serve.

There are are very, very fortunate.

I mean, that's where important policy work is done.

Whether it's for education or in some other area of government.

>> Right.

And I always say to that we see a lot of the partisanship on television.

Most of that from Washington.

But there are some really good times.

And Frankfort were intentional, come together and do what's right when it's right.

And I hope that people by watching maybe what we show them can get a little bit of that understanding minutes, not altruistic Hopson name calling that really these people work very well together for the most part.

>> For the most part, I think that's true.

And I think that's always been the case.

I when we're dealing with big issues in Kentuckyian we we deal with them regularly in the Commonwealth of everyone does come together it for the good of all.

And that's that's what makes it a special place.

And and so we're still there a lot those of us in higher education go a lot.

We work.

There are a lot we lobby on own respective A great deal.

And and so we're we're they're often you're still making that for our track to a Frankfort.

It hasn't gotten any shot.

>> It sure has.

And has a roads are a lot better, though.

I will say the roads are a lot better.

You might have something to do with that.

>> Well, let's talk about higher education where we are just in this space.

Now, there are so many challenges on our public and private institutions been and looking at what public institutions are up against now, funding, of course, is always a thing tuition we always hear about.

But the other challenges that you're dealing with that we may not have a really great understanding of, you know, I had a conversation yesterday we were talking about deferred maintenance and asset preservation in this last session.

>> We're very fortunate to be appropriated funds almost all the public universities were appropriate funds for deferred maintenance and asset preservation.

>> And what does that mean when you say those big show?

So that is a very complicated terms for taking care of these buildings on our campuses.

These are state buildings and and many of them are.

>> Very, very old.

And Murray State, many of them are approaching 100 years old.

And so it you've got to put roofs on the men.

You've got to do things aren't that sexy.

When you get when you talk about air conditioning and windows and making sure and mold abatement and mold.

And on our right.

But we were appropriated a significant amount of money in the last session.

We're very grateful to the legislature to the governor and others who who promoted a asset preservation, deferred maintenance.

And it's it's very important.

Murray State.

Yeah.

>> What about tuition?

How is that particularly for Murray State and the population of students that you're really trying to serve?

>> Tuition, Murray State where we are one of the lowest in the Commonwealth.

I think we're lower than all the other Publix except Kentucky State.

And it last a reading and so that's important to us access affordability is extremely important to to Murray State.

It always has been.

It continues to be the last few years.

We we have established records in regard to financial aid and scholarships.

And we continue on that trend.

So the issues of access affordability, I talk a lot of in Frankfort about that topic in a talk to students this morning in regard to access and affordability.

You know.

No one needs to worry about.

How am I going to go to college?

They need to be thinking about how do I get there, right?

How do I get there?

How work with the institution to to advance what they want to do for the rest of our lives.

It's it's a these are big decisions.

>> Right.

And for I won't say just first generation college students, but particularly that population who they may not have someone in their household who can help them navigate the federal financial aid reforms of forms and know how to do all that.

I know how to reach out to get scholarships or to apply.

I mean, so you may be dealing with a population where they really do need a hands on soft touch to make sure that they get off on the right foot.

>> They they do.

And the group that I left earlier there was a lot of questions about scholarships.

A lot of questions about financial aid in general.

A lot of questions about FAFSA that complicated form that's gotten less complicated through legislative action in Washington.

But the FAFSA the the completion rate, Renee, over the last several years have gone down each year for the last 4, 5, years.

So we've got to do more.

We've got to do a better job.

All of us, all of us have to do a better job in regard to making sure we completing the FAFSA relieving too much money on the table.

It's where the completion rate in Kentucky summer about 54%.

So that means 46% are completing right.

So last reasons for that are what do we >> It's it's a little bit of gosh, is complicated.

Maybe it's just total.

>> A lack of knowledge in regard what is it?

Am I getting the help I need do they even know the FAFSA form is?

Right?

Most high schools and councils do a fantastic job in regard to that topic.

UN issue.

That's important to An important to all the university presidents and we've talked about this recently last week.

We met in Louisville at CPS, Trusteeship Conference and we talked about the fast.

Pushing in the next legislative session requiring the FAFSA be completed in high school.

Some states are now doing that.

Louisiana is one of them and their completion rates have gone from, you know, about 50% to 75% in a very short period of time because the students who are are going to college right now.

You're saying it's 96%.

95 96 pursue the students who complete the FAFSA going to school, going to college right?

And so we we've got work to do there.

>> Yeah, to to sell.

That is the gateway, perhaps an and not knowing what it is and it's available.

And I will say that coming up in October on KET, we have an hour-long program about student college financial aid.

So we hope you'll tune in to that top.

You learn because a lot of those questions that people have just about certain questions on the form will be answered during that that call in program when we think about all the other pressures that are on institutions and even maybe the mindset shift here, Doctor Jackson that people are having toward higher education.

I mean, the economy is doing fairly well.

workers may have the upper hand.

Wages are the more competitive than they have been since 1970, something.

So we think about the place that higher education still has.

Are you worried that there is a devaluation of higher education when the job market seems to be?

readily available at this particular moment.

>> Yes, and I think I am with everyone else.

And in that regard, the majority of us worry about it constantly just making sure we we sell the value of higher education and making sure that we we our students in high schools and community colleges, the path to a four-year scholarships, financial aid, again indicating that.

But I am concerned about it there.

since 2020.

So since the pandemic started, there are 1.3 million less students going to college than before the pandemic in the last 10 years, there's 4 million less students going to college and in.

And so those are those are concerning trends for all of us.

It's a concerning trend from a workforce development standpoint, since earning train economic development standpoint.

So we have work to do there as well of selling the value of of a higher education.

And it was a study done a few days to read X or a few days ago.

75% of the jobs that are open today.

75% require some level of a college and most of them require a bachelor's degree or higher.

All right.

And so these are the things that we need to try to push an cell.

Renee regularly.

All of us, right, especially yeah, U.S. college Bres.

That's right.

And get out and Intel that well.

And we know that you have a great ambassador with the president.

The council on post-secondary Gerry Spence.

>> Post-secondary education.

Aaron Thompson, who has the initiative that there will be 60% of the adult population that would have the running by the year.

23 or 2030.

And that was first set out and see my go 2030, long time away will now here we are almost on 23.

And so we think about, you know, those conversations about what higher education looks like.

It's maybe not always a four-year.

Maybe it's certifications and other things that can lead you.

You can scaffold up.

Your educational experience should be stackable.

Yeah.

>> Doctor Thompson Bellway does a fantastic job was with him 3 days last weekend.

And we work very closely together on all of these matters.

And and but but it's going to take all of us working together, say from the same page of the hymn book in regard to carrying advancing the these issues forward and selling to families and students today, the importance of of a college University education.

All So there's a lot of good work, as my father would say, a lot of good work in front of us right.

>> And also just to have that exposure to different people.

Different idea.

So it's not always about a workforce imperative.

It can be just personal development and growth.

>> It's personal development and growth.

It's it's it's a understanding the way the world works in said Murray State to right now we have students from 50 countries in 48 states and every county in the commonwealth and it it is is learning from those individuals to.

So there's a social development issue that's very important.

All of us as well.

Right?

>> Graduation matriculation rates where you want them to be.

>> They're never as high as we like for them to Murray State is as done well in those categories for a long, long time.

And and we're going to lead of the state and some of those areas and proud of that.

And and so retention rates at first the second year retention rate is so important, right?

And you know, we're doing well.

They were.

We've ticked up a couple points from last year.

And so these are the things that we we spent a lot of time only work on closing the underrepresented minority, gavel, retention and graduation.

That's a a a major focus for Murray State and all of all of our universities, all especially our public universities.

We talk about it a lot, right?

Yeah.

They performance-based measures and met and metrics now in place to help with that.

>> Dean has performance-based funding.

Is that a blessing or a curse for regional universities?

Your size?

Sure.

Sure.

I'm not sure is a blessing or curse.

It's different mates different.

So we we have to adjust to.

>> This new different model of of funding.

We've made some tweaks and some significant changes.

We've worked with the legislative leaders who who have been extremely helpful, who have who have authored performance funding in the Commonwealth like Senator David Givens, Senator really is the is the Godfather, if you performance funding.

And we work with was Senator Givens regularly.

And in a lot of detail, he's been extremely helpful, but it gets it's more of a challenge.

It is very different.

But one of the things we changed if you just a couple years ago was protecting a floor of our funding so we can't go below that floor, which gives us all great relief if you will, knowing that we can't go below this level and then above that, the performance metrics then will determine what additional funding we get.

There are still some universities, a couple of universities not receiving any performance funding moneys.

So I think we have some opportunities to tweak the performance funding model again to help those institutions as well as to help the other regional comprehensive universities too.

>> Yeah, because you're also in competition with yourself.

You're in competition with the better you do one year in the next you got to do even better.

I mean, that really sets it up to be a highly competitive, shall we say.

So.

>> One of the things in regard to performance funding is maybe taking part of of that big performance funding pool and making it part of our permanent every year.

When you get those monies, maybe it's more of your permanent base.

And then that because each year the performance funding model starts over it, right?

Right.

So we're competing with ourselves and we're competing with all the other universities, big and small right?

>> So what will be agenda look come 2023, which will be here before we can bat real.

Well, all What is it that you hope can get through and that session, which is not a budget year.

So this is different.

But is there something that you have in mind and in conversation with the other regional universities, too?

>> It the performance funding We'll start a conversation.

There will not be any legislation and acted or even propose in regard to performance funding in the next session.

So will be talking about what can we do to tweak I think there's some things we can this, this deferred maintenance and asset preservation funding because of the inflationary environment.

We're currently in its not going as far as we thought it would So we can stretch it as much as we'd like.

So maybe there's an opportunity to talk about asset preservation, deferred maintenance, taking care of these old buildings, the state buildings on our campuses, which has been extremely helpful again to all of us, especially Murray I would say and this and this day all but all of us, all the public universities have old buildings on their campuses and it's it's a huge need.

Yeah.

>> Public private partnerships when it comes to the higher education space.

How well is that working isn't working and how is it may be evolving?

>> It's it's it's working.

in in this environment.

We're currently in that that we find ourselves in.

Is this tremendous inflationary environment, this environment where their supply chain issues.

It's now working as well as as it should.

And that's for any building project or ATP 3 project, no matter what it's being used for.

So we're going through a P 3 Public private partnership project in regard to residential And so are you the questions right now we're evaluating.

We're going to slow it down or we're going to have to reevaluate some components of it again because of of this inflation or environment and because of the supply chain issues we're dealing with.

So it's a it's a really complicated environment when you're trying to do this type of work round.

>> When we think about what the business community wants versus what students want and institutions can provide.

There's some overlap.

There are there are competing interests and what may be students want and what the business environment may require of them.

>> They're always both.

There's both.

And so making sure you find that common ground making sure you leverage that common ground.

I think in most cases today we are meeting the needs of of what the business community, what the economy needs, what our workforce demands are.

I think we're doing that.

I think we're doing that well, that and I would say that for all of us, in in higher education.

>> Are we meeting every need every day on every issue?

No, no.

And and that's always the challenge because, you know, students obviously have their own wants and needs in regard to that.

The business community and others have their wants and needs in regard to that.

So we've got to find that big middle space.

And I think we do that pretty well.

Yeah.

>> Well, I do want to talk about the time we have the finest place.

We know I love this title, by the way, this is the book that you've cawthorn.

This is about the centennial history at Murray State University from 1922.

Did present day.

Tell us about this book and it's it's a illustrated book along with I know, just filled in brand will fax an interesting history.

Well, thank you.

It's been a labor of love that I want to.

I want to say, too.

>> The co authors Doctor Jeff McLoughlin, Sarah Marie Owens at Murray State of Working Pogue Library, which you've been all over the years they they did a fantastic job over over the last few years is this was a pre pandemic start, right?

So in 2019, we started working on on this centennial history.

We obviously he's our son 10 years now 2022.

So we KET was going to take some time to complete this.

This book that you're now holding.

Yeah, and I want to thank the University Press of Kentucky.

They did a fantastic job.

And so these are literally hot off the And so you have one of the first car.

>> I'm so honored and I'm really proud of how it turned out.

And I'm really proud of the stories that are being told.

And I'm really proud of of the pictures that you see many of which have never been shown in a public setting.

And and so now the world will get to see them.

That's wonderful.

So we have a great history.

All universities and colleges have wonderful histories.

We have a great We're very proud of it.

>> Is there anything that sticks out to us and the like?

Oh, my goodness.

A major heart saying are so well, sure.

>> I'm always amazed when in 1922.

You know, if we can, if we could just rolled back time and think especially in the far western hinterlands of this commonwealth.

There were no bridges over the Tennessee River and in the Cumberland Rivers over Kentucky Lake in Lake Barkley.

No bridges, roads who are at best a gravel and doctor att.

Well, as our founder was having to make his way to Frankfort, to lobby and work in and and and do all the things necessary to locate Murray State as we know it today.

Murray State in Murray, Kentucky or at least somewhere in Western Kentuckyian in obviously ended up in Murray.

So you work very hard.

He was a legislator himself.

So he he KET the system.

You KET how to work it big.

Just imagine getting here.

If it's 4 hours today with four-lane roads, right?

Great bridge is this was a two-day trip.

Yeah, 1922.

And just thinking how hard he worked and others Our legislative team back in that day and many others, we had hundreds of donors giving ultimately thousands of dollars to to locate Murray State where it is today.

Yeah.

>> That's amazing.

And we think about the quality of the faculty and the staff there.

I mean that you interact with them on a daily basis when you're not traveling back and forth to Frankfort.

I mean, can you talk about it since the students are first?

But how important to have employee faculty staff base that.

So it's key.

Sacrificial is key.

We we are blessed with.

>> Wonderful faculty, warfel staff, wonderful students that is made Murray State a special place for 100 years now.

>> And and you know, over that entire long period of time, that's always been the case.

We just KET.

>> We just KET bringing individuals in and few people leave.

It seems any from from the standpoint of.

>> I'm not for most of us who are there and and >> factory roles in leadership roles are not from there.

But week, all mater write, write This.

My undergraduate alma mater.

I love the place.

So I landed there a long time ago and I've had the for good fortune doing a lot of things.

But that's the story of a lot of faculty members and gains in shares and administrators.

That's what makes it a special place.

>> Was it always your goal to be president?

>> No, it really wasn't.

I'll be very I could probably say yes, it was a high and everyone would cry.

Believe that.

But, you know, I've I've held a lot of roles there enough.

I've had the good fortune of doing a lot of different type of work on Murray State's behalf.

Weather was in the state Senate or when I was president, a long association or many other heading up the foundation and Murray State.

So been blessed with some wonderful jobs in my career in.

So now I'm I'm at the best job, right?

So this is the capstone job.

And when I get finished doing this, it will be my last UAW.

>> But you're not even talking about that.

Are you?

Well, let's hope not.

Yeah, but anyway, so if the if you can think about a crystal ball 3 to 5 years from what would Murray State look like?

Is it the same different?

Let's >> It the look and feel a campus.

I want to be the same.

It's it.

You know, we value our students, the relationship we have with our students were a smaller institution.

We would be considered a midsize institution nationally but were smaller than most of our peers.

More hits a little bit smaller.

Kentucky State is obviously smaller.

So if we're able to provide that personal touch in that personal service, that a lot maybe us to shuns cannot provide.

So we want that to stay we're we're preparing to build a new school of nursing and health professions.

So nice addition to our campus moneys appropriate legislation.

We're very grateful again in the last legislative session.

So that will change him.

And we'll see.

We'll you know, the physical plan, if you change.

But but the things that matter matter the most, the teaching and learning the quality, the accolades that we receive.

Obviously we want them to stay or be enhanced.

Even in the years to come.

>> Well, we know that there is a desperate need for health care workers and anything we can do to shore up, particularly on the nursing side is going to be appreciated.

And that takes a while to do is, you know, you are helping to build a new generation of health care providers, the finest place we know.

I don't think anybody is going to dispute the title of the book because I've been there a few times and I have to say, even though I'm a Western grad.

>> I think very highly of Murray State University and of the president doctor Bob Jackson.

It's been a pleasure speaking with you.

I wish you all the best.

This book will be available soon.

I know I've got my copy, but you can find it on Amazon where folks are sold university Press of Kentuckyian on and on it.

Yes, I know you're very proud of this.

And I I feel honored to have a hardback version of it.

Thank you.

And thanks to Jordan Smith to who is behind the camera.

You have a great staff there.

And I have been blessed to visit a few times and hope to be there real soon.

We hope to see said Thank you.

Yeah.

See.

Happy one 100th birthday.

university.

The University, of course, is not to Bob Jackson, but thank you so much.

And thank you all for watching.

You can always follow us on Facebook on Twitter.

Make sure you watch Kentucky edition each week night at 6.30, Eastern 5.30, central where we connect inform and inspire the day's news we encapsulate for you and 27 minutes and 30 seconds.

You can follow me on Facebook and Twitter as well.

Watch our programs.

>> On air online and listen on.

Podcast Akt Dot Org.

Slash podcast until I see you again.

Take really good care.

Well.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪