- Hello, I'm David Crabtree.

In a moment, I'll be joined by Dr. Bonita Brown, the new Chancellor of Winston-Salem State University.

Join us as we discuss her experience, her unique association with this campus, and her view of higher education and beyond.

- [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[uplifting piano jingle plays] [light upbeat music] [light upbeat music continues] - Hello, I'm David Crabtree.

Thanks for joining us.

We are on the campus of Winston-Salem State University with the chancellor, Bonita Brown.

Chancellor, thanks for talking with us.

- Thank you.

- This is a homecoming.

You've been here now since July, but this was coming home for you.

- Absolutely.

- [David] Tell me about that.

- Oh, I was born right here in Winston-Salem.

My mother was actually a junior in college when she met my father.

They got married, and I was born her senior year.

So literally, while she was in classes, I was told that I was being babysat here in the residence halls until she got out of class.

And then, as I got older, I was in the Winston-Salem State Homecoming parades.

We actually have our parade this weekend, and so, I'm excited to see all the young ladies who are gonna be in those parades.

And then, after that, when I got older, I even worked as an assistant attorney here at Winston-Salem State University.

So to come back home now in the role as chancellor, it's surreal.

It's surreal to me every day when I think about it.

- And every day, you learn something new.

Every day, you learn something new about this campus, about students, about yourself.

What's been most surprising so far?

- I think what's surprising to me is the amazing academics and programs that are here at Winston-Salem State.

When you think colleges and universities, I think everybody thinks about university psychology, sociology, the basic courses.

But what I have found here is that the rich history and tradition of teaching of this campus goes across the entire curriculum.

So whether it's nursing or whether it's business, the students are just deeply ingrained in academics and what it means to be a part of the Winston-Salem State ramily, and it's just deep within this institution, and I find that just amazing because it makes the university strong when it has to weather storms.

It makes us proud when we're celebrating.

It's just so deep and a part of the fabric.

I just find that amazing.

- Now, if you're not familiar with this university and you hear the word ramily.

- Yes.

- [David] What does that mean?

- It is our version of family, and we call it ramily because we are the Winston-Salem State rams, but it's a connection.

When you meet someone, no matter where you are, it's that instant connection when you say, "Hey, I'm a Winston-South State alum, I used to work there.

I'm part of the ramily," It's just a bond you don't have to explain.

People know what it means.

They're out to support and help you just a little bit more.

You can just see the smiles across people's faces when you meet them in restaurants, and stores, or even the airport.

It just means that we're bonded, a part of this community.

- You've got quite an extensive history and background in education and higher education.

What drew you to this?

- You know, it was kind of by accident, I like to tell people.

My mother was an educator.

She was a teacher, worked her way up to be a principal.

When I decided to go to law school, my goal was to be an international corporate attorney to work for Sony or Paramount, you know, travel the world, doing contracts.

So I did contracts for a little while, and it just did not inspire me from day to day.

And so, again, I began looking for another job and I found a posting for an attorney at a small college in Salisbury Livingstone College.

I interviewed for it and I was hired as the assistant to the president, not really knowing what I was getting into.

Fell in love with it instantly.

I think it's the organization, the strategy, the problem solving, the event planning, all with the goal of educating students that did it for me.

That got me excited, and I knew I was gonna be in higher ed for the rest of my career.

- So, when you decided to go to law school, did you ever think about practicing law?

- I never wanted to go into the courtroom, so I knew that part.

I didn't know quite what I could do with the law degree.

And I will say Wake Forest University is a great law school.

I was allowed to think about and explore different career paths.

I had a couple of internships over the summer, and again, it was the contracts, trademarks, patents that was my niche, that was my area that I really did well in, but again, it just did not hit my sense of giving back to the community.

And I think my family, growing up, we were taught to give back, to serve, to help others.

And so, I think that's why I did not stay on that legal side as long.

- Did you ever think, ever entertain, I know you said you didn't want to go in the courtroom, but the bench, obviously, is in the courtroom, but it allows a person to consume both sides of something and then make a ruling on it.

- It did.

And you know, I never considered that, and I'm not sure why.

I think, again, I had a lot of practice in my courses, being in the courtroom, presenting a case.

I don't know that I ever had practice being on the bench or even knowing what that was about, so that actually was not a consideration for me.

- What was the best thing about going to law school?

- Learning about the different aspects of law.

I tell people, "Knowledge is power."

And so, contracts, I think I like to know how plans and deals, the background behind it, how it worked out, what you could insert into a contract to make a situation move or change differently, so I think it was just the learning about contracts, the employment law, trademarks, I was able to explore different areas of law that literally taught me how the world worked.

And that's a skillset you need in any and every industry.

And so that, again, when I did practice, I was actually in the telecommunications field using my contracts and trademark skills to work with and sell telecommunications services around the world.

- Okay.

So, here you are as chancellor of this beautiful university, right in the center of the state.

- [Bonita] Yes.

- [David] How many students this semester?

- Around 4,800 students.

- [David] 4,800.

- Mmhm.

- Faculty?

- Faculty and staff is about 2,000, I mean.

- That's a lot to manage.

- It is.

- What's the greatest challenge of being a chancellor?

- I think right now, today, the biggest challenge are the internal and external pressures.

So, you know, internally, you wanna support your students, you wanna give everybody pay raises, you wanna be offering the best degree programs, while externally, they're pressuring you to produce more graduates in this field as opposed to that field, to build partnerships, and just navigating and balancing all of that with only eight or nine hours in a day, that you can do it with limited resources, and with people really putting things in front of you that they think is best or that they want for the university to do.

So you have to navigate all of those preferences, all of those desires, and what's best for the students.

And so, I think that's the hardest part, is managing all of that on a day-to-day basis.

- And you bring a lot of energy into a room.

So I'm just presuming that all of these challenges, you would like to deal with quickly, - [laughs] That's an understatement.

I'm a mover and a shaker.

I like to solve problems, and so, when I assess a situation, I can see a solution and I wanna move.

But that's easier said than done, because again, there's a lot of variables.

Do I have the right staff?

Do I have enough staff?

Do I have the funding?

Is this gonna impact another project we're working on on the other side of campus?

So you just have to navigate all of those variables as you're trying to resolve and move forward.

- You know, I worked in commercial media for 40 years and then came into the public media world, and I often say I came from a world that moved galactically - Yes.

- To one that moves glacially.

But I think there's a balance in there somewhere.

- There is.

And you have to find it.

Again, you have to know your campus.

And so, I've been taking these first four months to get to know the campus, to understand the history, to understand where the talent is, to understand what we can move quickly and what we can't.

And so, I think, if you talk to the campus, I have them hopping a little bit, but at the same time, I'm also explaining the urgency.

There's a reason why we have to move expeditiously, and it's all about the students.

- All about the students.

As I drove in today and then walked around a little bit, I noticed a lot of students, energy in students, young people, fertile minds.

- [Bonita] Yes.

- That you get to be around every day.

- I love it.

- Do you like to walk the campus, spend time talking to students?

- I do.

I love walking the campus.

I try to walk the campus as much as I can just to check in with the students.

How are you doing?

What's going on?

What's new?

They're always teaching me something new.

You know, they have a whole other language that I try to learn.

They ask a lot of questions, a lot of hard questions, a lot of pointed questions.

"Well, we need this as students, why don't we have it?

Why do other schools have it and we don't?"

And so, they keep you on your toes.

They also have a lot of new ideas.

I'm just amazed at how they think about things.

I think, when I was growing up, you thought about things kind of in boxes, but no, they're wanna take a AI class in technology so they can go be a doctor.

Like they see things not in a linear way, and that's what I learned from them all the time, is that you don't have to think about things in sections.

It all can combine and collaborate and work together, and that's phenomenal.

- You ever find yourself waking up in the middle of the night and you've just realized what a student told you yesterday or three days ago and think, "Oh, we could do that?"

- I think so.

The students, again, they live here.

This is their home.

They know what they're expecting.

They know what they want.

And so, I do.

When I talked to 'em, and I listen, I was like, "Oh, they said they wanted an eSports center, they wanted this, they wanted that."

And I was like, "Well, why not?"

I think we start with no a lot, and so, I start with why not.

And so, as I talk to them, then I come back to the staff, and I say, well, "Why can't we have an eSports center?

Why can't we have that?"

And then they gets people moving and hopping.

And so, I absolutely think about what they say all the time.

- A lot of challenges today for higher education.

A lot of pressure for students, a lot of people marketing, trying to find students, either in person, online, and you also have parents who are saying, "You need to learn a skill.

You need to go to work."

So talk to me about what Bonita Brown brings in her approach of talking with the young people and talking with their parents or grandparents.

- Yeah, that's a great question.

And you're right.

There is a push for skills, for people to go to work right now.

And what I tell them is that a four year education is a holistic development process.

So we're not just gonna teach them one trade and push them out the door.

We're gonna teach them power skills, how to be a leader, how to research, how to collaborate, how to solve problems.

We're gonna teach them all of that, how to work with different types of people.

And so, when they come in the door, they're gonna be one way, but by the time they leave, they'll be a totally different person.

They will think differently.

They will speak differently.

I tell the parents, "You shouldn't recognize your child at the end of four years," because that's our job, to develop them for the whole world, not just for one particular track, and I think we do a good job of that.

As I mentioned, students are taking AI classes with psychology and thinking about how those two work together.

They are thinking differently.

They're making friends with people they never thought they would meet from different parts of the country, or even the world.

And they are learning from that, and when they depart, they're departing to serve, and they're departing better people or well-rounded people.

- You have first generation students here.

You remember what it was like, although you weren't a first generation student, - [Bonita] Right.

- You were a first day student at one time, first week student.

[Bonita chuckles] Do you, at times, find students who are just really intimidated by the process?

- Absolutely.

I tell people, in higher education, we speak a whole different language.

And so, when we're talking to first year, first generation, first year students, we rattle off the alphabet soup and you can see in their eyes that they're terrified.

They just don't know what we mean or what we say.

And so, what I tell people is, particularly when working with first generation students, we have to act like they've never been on this campus.

So you've been here forever, they haven't.

So be sure to go overboard in explaining, and guiding, and educating.

And again, we have a first year experience course.

Well, we try to help with that.

We try to make them feel at home, we take them on tours across campus.

We explain some of the alphabet soup that we have here.

And I think our culture just supports that first generation student because a lot of our staff were first generation students, they are alums from here, so they know what it was like on their first day.

And so, they go above and beyond to make sure those students are supported and are able to navigate the campus.

- Chancellor, for people who are watching who've never been on this campus before what's going to be the biggest surprise for them if they come and visit?

- I think when people come, they're surprised at how beautiful the campus is!

We have beautiful trees, courtyards, our beautiful clock tower.

It is just a beautiful campus that a lot of people see just from the highway, but when you come onto the campus, I think you see how beautiful it is, and you feel that spirit, you feel that ramily energy when you come on campus, and that's what everyone has said, particularly on their first visit to campus.

That's what they say.

- And this is a campus possessing a lot of different academic programs, and you have inherited a university that's known nationally and internationally for its programs, so talk with us a bit about what's offered, but also how this university is viewed through the lens of this world of higher education.

- Yeah, I think Winston-Salem State has a very strong reputation, as you mentioned, in the state, across the country, and in the world.

We've got some recent rankings that I really think show that.

We're number one in social mobility, which means we take students from a certain socioeconomic level and it's proven that we can get them to another level when they graduate and years after they graduate.

A lot of our nursing programs are ranked number one in the country, in the state, in the region, and so, we're known for producing that quality, diverse population of nurses.

We are known for that.

I think we're also known for just students who, again, who are strong when they enter into their fields.

And as I meet alums, there are alums all over the country in amazing jobs from the JP Chase Morgans to Secret Service to Cisco, you name it.

We have alumni in a lot of top key positions.

And so, I think that's why Winston-Salem State is known.

I think that's why we will continue to be known.

And of course, I'm a dreamer, so I'm dreaming of what's next.

What else can we be known for?

How do we make all of our programs in those nationally ranked programs.

And so, we're gonna be looking and searching for what we can do next.

- Anything come to mind already on your horizon?

- You would ask that.

[David chuckles] I still think nursing is gonna be it for us.

You know, there's a high demand all across the nation.

How can we take it even further to get even more students in that pipeline and to get those nurses well-round?

And so, what does it look like to have a nursing program with a Spanish minor to support the Hispanic population?

What does it look like to have AI across the curriculum for all of our degree programs so that, when our students graduate, they have an AI certificate or something to show that they're trained in AI?

So again, I don't wanna give away all of my secrets, but those are the things that I'm thinking about as we look forward to what's ahead just in the world.

- [David] Let's talk a little bit, if you would, about the history of this campus, the history of this university, and the history of the region where we are.

There's a lot to unpack there.

- There is a lot.

Again, this institution started as a teacher's college.

We also, I think our founder, Simon Green Atkins, also started a hospital.

And so, the purpose of that was to serve this East Winston community, this region.

If you know Winston-Salem, you know tobacco was king for a long time, so a lot in this region was built upon that tobacco and that industry.

So when that left, it kinda left a void in this region.

Winston-Salem State has been here since 1892, producing teachers, producing nurses, producing the talent for this region.

We're still a key part of this region.

We have approximately $200 million impact to this area.

So I can't imagine Winston-Salem without Winston-Salem State.

And so, and that's what I'm telling people, I'm telling people that story and again, pushing everybody to dream about what's next.

What is the next biggest impact that we can have on this region.

As this region tries to figure out what its next is?

Is it technology?

Is it biomedical research?

What is the next for the Triad region?

We have to be at that table helping to develop that next story.

- And the community is integral to the success here and the success of your students to be able to literally integrate within the community around.

- That's right.

And I have found this community to be most welcoming.

Every industry that I talk to, they say, "We have student interns from your school and they're amazing."

So I think we're there.

I think we probably need to spotlight and celebrate that a little more, but they have embraced our students.

Our students are contributing to the society, they're contributing to the workforce, and I think there's room for more, and I think we'll be doing a lot more of that.

- You know, the landscape of the world and the landscape of life has changed since you were a freshman.

- [chuckles] Absolutely.

- You remember what it was when you were a freshman.

- [Bonita] Yes.

- Of course, that wasn't all that many years ago, but it was still different.

How do you share that, or do you share it with students and with staff and faculty about where we are versus where we were?

- That's a good question.

And yes, when I'm speaking with students, I do tell them about my journey through education.

I think students will look at me and say, "You're the chancellor.

You must have breezed through everything.

It must have been easy."

And I have to tell 'em it was not.

At one point, I did not know what I wanted to do.

I didn't know what I wanted to major in.

And while my parents went to college, it still was new to me to know how to navigate.

Again, and even attending Wake Forest as a minority was a different landscape that I had to navigate going to school.

And so, I think sharing your stories, it makes students, one, see that you're human, that you're just like them, and that you can make it.

And so, I often share my stories and my journeys.

I tell people I'm mostly an open book because I believe, if you share your stories, you never know what somebody's gonna pick out of that to learn that's gonna help them in their journey.

So I like to tell, I like to talk to students and tell them about my whole trajectory.

- Was there a class you struggled with?

- Oh, math.

[laughs] Math One, Two, Three, Calculus.

It was all math.

- How did you make it through it?

- Oh, I had to take a summer class.

I had a tutor.

I had to put in more effort in that math than I did in any other class.

- So there were your parents, college educated, you're struggling with math.

Did you share your struggle with your parents, or did you think, "I just need to get through this and make sure they see I have a good grade?"

- Yeah, I just handled it on my own.

I didn't want them to know that I was struggling with math in college.

And so, I was able to figure it out.

In hindsight, I probably should have talked to my father.

He took a lot of accounting courses and probably could have helped me, but I was of the mindset that I can do this.

I wanna figure it out.

I'll get the help that I need and I will address it.

And I did that.

So now, when I talk to students, I say, "Don't struggle alone.

Just ask somebody.

We're here to help you, we can get you to the right place, we can get you the resources.

Do not struggle alone."

- You know, we were talking earlier, before we began, about the importance of encouraging people to learn something new all the time.

I think it's also very encouraging to students at any level, any age, to use those three powerful words of "Please help me".

- [Bonita] Yes.

- If you knew it all, you wouldn't be in class, right?

- [Bonita] That's exactly right.

We tell students that all the time.

We're like, "A whole community is here just for you.

We're here to support you.

Please don't try to go in alone, and don't be embarrassed to ask for help."

I think, a lot of times, this generation thinks they have to do it themselves and that you're weak if you have to ask for help, and we tell people it's the opposite.

You're strong if you realize you have a deficiency and you seek support.

And so, our faculty and staff are great at that.

We have staff groups that have created groups themselves to support students.

You know, we have students that wanna support the males on campus.

We have students that wanna support parents on campus.

And so, they see the need and they develop those groups.

Once the students know that they're there, and so, if they don't feel comfortable reaching out in some format, they have a person they can go to.

So we're gonna be even more intentional about creating those groups so that students, We know they're a little shy to ask, but we wanna make it so that they may not have to ask, but we can get them in the space where they can get that support.

- [David] In the midst of that support, mental and emotional health.

So critical, so crucial for all of us, but particularly young people on college campuses.

- That is so true.

And I think that is one of the things that surprised me when I was talking to students.

That's one of the first things they would mention.

We want more mental health support.

You know, we're concerned about our mental health, I'm concerned about my friends and their mental health, so we have a great counseling center here.

We have telehealth options.

I think our program is getting certified in a JEDI program, which is a national mental health certification, which is gonna bring more programming, support, and resources for mental health.

It is absolutely key for this generation, and we're taking it seriously.

I think a lot of people think there's a stigma where you're at a HBCU, you don't talk about mental health.

We're gonna blow that stereotype out of the water because our students are asking for it.

And when they mention it by name, I take it seriously.

So we're absolutely doubling down and supporting their mental health journeys.

- If a student is considering Winston-Salem State because they've heard about it through a counselor or through a fellow student somewhere or read about it, what would you tell that student?

- That's a great question.

We actually have had that scenario a lot.

First, I want them to come to campus.

'Cause again, when they come and see it and feel it, that usually sells them right there.

The next thing I tell them is that we are a family.

You will be supported, you will be taken care of.

We have all the resources that you need to help you to be successful, and then we talk about our alumni and where they are and where they've been.

And when I talk to the parents, I say, "It's okay to let them go.

We're gonna take care of them.

We have the supports here.

We're gonna be there for them.

This is the best place that they could be."

And you'll be surprised.

You can see the parents just kind of breathe when you hear someone say, "We're gonna take care of your students, we are gonna be there for them."

That's what parents care about the most and we're gonna get them to a job and a degree and out of your house, and so, they really care about that part.

They really like that part.

[chuckles] - A job, a degree, possibly a higher degree as well?

- [Bonita] Yes, a higher degree.

Absolutely.

We have graduate programs.

We have created, recently, new partnerships where students can get advanced degrees with Wake Forest particularly.

We have a Wake Forest, PA MOU, where they can go to be a physician's assistant, and the law school, which was dear to my heart, we just signed an MOU where two or three of our Winston-Salem State students, once they graduate, will be able to apply to Wake Law and be supported with scholarships and wraparound supports.

So we're looking for all kind of pathways for our students to get to that next level.

- Chancellor Bonita Brown at Winston-Salem State University, thank you for your passion, for your time, for your energy, and for your love of education.

- Thank you.

This is my passion, and I will tell anybody Winston-Salem State is the greatest university around.

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