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[Music] >> BRANDON SMITH: Both parties celebrate municipal election wins.

State Treasurer Daniel Elliott that's big on Israel.

Plus, Jennifer McCormick's consulting gig and more.

From the television studios at WFYI, it is Indiana's Week in Review for the week ending November 10, 2023.

>> Indiana's Week in Review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana public broadcasting systems stations .

>> BRANDON SMITH: This week, both the Indian the Democratic and Republican parties had reason to celebrate Tuesday's election results.

Democrats flipped mayoral seats and Evansville, Terre Haute and Lawrence amongst others, while Republicans continue to strengthen their advantage in rural Indiana and regained ground and Hamilton County, the northern suburbs of Indianapolis.

Political scientists Andrew Downs says in a broad sense, it was a status quo election .

>> Both can say we had a good night and are proud of ourselves.

In many respects, they will have to acknowledge that they could've had better nihts .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Downs says it is hard to think much about 2024 from 2023 results, since this year's races are so much more locally focused .

>> Potholes are not dealt with at the state level, picking up leaves and removing snow, those are not dealt with at the state level .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Downs did say that both parties can focus on areas where this court key victories and look to build from those bases of support for next year .

Could both parties claim major victories in this week's elections?

It is the first question for our Indiana's Week in Review panel.

Democrat Ann DeLaney , Republican Mike O'Brien , Jon Schwantes posted Indiana lawmakers, and Niki Kelly, editor in chief of the Indiana capital Chronicle.

I am Indiana public broadcasting.

Us bureau chief Brandon Smith.

Mike O'Brien, would you call this Tuesday a split decision?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Yes, both sides can look at a bright spot or how they did well.

The way it was characterized at the rural areas, Republican slipped 14 mayoral races, we had 76 statewide.

We have a representative that Republicans about one in decades.

But, we get back two large cities, Evansville and Terre Haute that we arguably should have to begin with.

We cut those back into party searching years when all that was going.

There was a good young candidate for the Democrat of Terre Haute which really worked .

Going for her fifth term sometimes there is little fatigue.

Reasons to explain that, generally what you are seeing is the urban centers are getting bluer and out-of-state is getting redder.

We prove that by setting a pile of money on fire in Marion County that the Republican mayor is a little out of reach .

[Laughter].

>> BRANDON SMITH: Reasons for both sides to be happy?

>> ANN DELANEY: For the Hoosiers who are represented by municipalities that had elections this year, the vast majority of the population is now in the Democratic-controlled city .

It is very encouraging.

I think the Republican brand took a hit .

I think where Democrats put the election deniers up there, it hurt them.

Voters understand that they are antichoice and pro-gun , and all those kinds of things.

We have a lot to celebrate.

Deb Whitfield did a great job and Lawrence , and our new mayor and Evansville as well as two African-American women.

The other thing that I think needs a shout out and this is the Hoosier women forward.

They put 18 candidates forward and 12 of them one2 of them one .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: This is the first time graduates from Republican University leadership group .

>> ANN DELANEY: Both of them?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: It has been a very successful program .

>> BRANDON SMITH: We saw major diversity progress in both parties.

Rather first black mayor in Marion this week and Whitfield in those two cities.

Looking though, he talked about the cities getting bluer, the outer areas getting redder.

The purple areas of the areas that we think might be purple, the suburbs of Indianapolis.

It did not quite go as purple as we thought .

>> NIKI KELLY: I think the last three or four election cycles, everyone says we are going to see at this time, we are going to see at this time Hamilton is some of those suburbs .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Hamilton did make a story progress in 2019 but lost some of background .

>> NIKI KELLY: We are just not seeing a wholesale change.

We are talking about a seat here or there every other cycle.

I don't know, I think maybe we have gotten a little too into our these demographic changing ?

Or are we going to see a big shift?

>> ANN DELANEY: When you see the national pay in and the issue of choice front and center, which it will be in 2024 .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I think that Pis right, we are conflating moderate Republicans in the suburbs with not liking Donald Trump becoming Democrats, I do not think that is true.

I think that is reactive which is why - - by 15 points .

>> BRANDON SMITH: In terms of it is so hard to predict anything based on the results, this election does not equal a statewide election or even a steakhouse election at all , because the is different too.

But, you just talked about, it is largely moderate Republicans winning in the seat and Hamilton County and that sort of thing that Democrats lost ground on.

But, will it so much depend on some of the suburban house districts next year?

Was a much depend on who the Republican candidates are too .

>> JON SCHWANTES: I think so.

We have seen time and again suburban women are deciding elections across this country.

That is nothing new.

Everything that has been said here is to a degree) both sides claimed victory but show me a big and election were both sides do not claim to the benefit .

If you look at Ohio, Virginia, Kentucky, states the Republicans objectively suffered body blows, they are saying but you know what was great?

We were able to refine our message and this is a great crucible .

>> NIKI KELLY: Talk about refining their message, they didn't win.

[Laughter].

>> JON SCHWANTES: I am not saying both sides have reasons .

>> BRANDON SMITH: In this one they clearly have it .

>> JON SCHWANTES: They dot is also correct as several people pointed out there is the migration of the blue, the core urban areas are bluer than ever and the rural areas are certainly red.

But, that matters in the way, but the way we have seen maps drawn in terms of legislator .

>> You mean the gerrymandering?

>> It is masterful.

Whoever is in control every 10 years and those are drawn, it has become a great science.

It doesn't matter because those pockets of blue can be diluted to a certain extent and we have seen time and again .

>> BRANDON SMITH: State treasurer Daniel Elliott from Indiana chief investment officer recently purchased $35 million in Israeli bonds my trust and confidence in Israel's people and its economy, calling it a great opportunity for Hoosier taxpayers.

Indiana public broadcasting Lauren Chapman reports advocates say the purchase supports the genocide of Palestinians .

>> State treasurer Daniel element said in a statement the bond purchase reflectors confidence in Israel's victory over the forces of evil.

At a demonstration in India at Indianapolis, protesters call for the disinvestment of U.S. dollars from Israel.

Malkah Berg, a member of Jewish voice for peace Indiana said that purchase for Indiana is unconscionable .

>> Any money we give to Israel is supporting genocide of Palestinians and violence and weapons used against Palestinian children, against Palestinian families in Gaza .

>> The purchase Wednesday was the largest known by U.S. status October 7, according to the state treasurer's office.

It oversees the investment of nearly $17 billion of state assets .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Ann DeLaney, putting aside the front political atmosphere in this country over what is going on in Israel and Palestine, isn't this the the sort of political investing decision that Daniel Elliott was against when we have the debate in the legislator a few months ago?

>> ANN DELANEY: Yes, it absolutely is.

There is hypocrisy and there is high pocrisy and this is what this is.

Either you think it is okay to invest issue that you think are important but also have good return, or you don't.

You cannot pick and choose which ones which is what he is trying to do.

I assume that he will be investigated because he is putting policy ahead of the interest of our retirees .

He is so opposed to that.

They ought to stay out of it.

They automate investments that make sense , that contribute to the country and have a good return, but you cannot have it both ways and that is what he is trying to do here .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Is he trying to have it both ways on this?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: This is why you have an ESG bill.

He is bound by law to make an investment in the best fiduciary interest.

I am sure he has some justification for why this is, I do not know that a good long-term investment right now is in a war-torn Middle East , but he is the expert in that But I think the idea that this is incredibly complicated and nuanced issue , or situation .

It is so ill fit for the current political environment, because there is a black-and-white component to what is happening there Israel was attacked by terrorists on October 7 and retaliated and try to eliminate Hamas, terrorist organization, that is black-and-white for me.

What is not black-and-white is how you do that , why the Western world is reacting including the United States and saying I think we need a timeout and a pause.

We need to assess the collateral damage that is being done.

Those are very great, nuanced debates that we are having .

Here comes the state of Indiana pumping out a press release that the state will invest $35 million in Israeli bonds.

I do not appreciate the timing, Blanchard the fiscal soundness of the checks out .

>> ANN DELANEY: I would not count on that.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: It is required to buy law .

>> BRANDON SMITH: >> JON SCHWANTES: These are not brand-new investments and what Elliott pointed out is that historically, his Israeli bonds have been a good investment.

Right now, does it feeling a good investment?

Regardless of which side to support this issue whether what you think what Israel is doing is completely right or there is more nuanced to this that a lot of Palestinian civilians are being murdered with seemingly no thought by the Israeli government , whichever side you fall on here , is that where you want to put money for it to be safe?

>> JON SCHWANTES: As every perspective on the planet says, past performance is no indication or guarantee of future returns.

So you say yes, historically they have been good, but we are dealing with situations in the Middle East that are unprecedented, so history by definition goes out the window.

I have not, shame on me, I do not look at the bond ratings for these bonds , but I know what happened when , I'm not sure which bond agency reduce the federal government after some of the impasse in Washington Congress.

If you look at that , were no guns were for the most part among the two parties , if that warrants a reduction in the rating, one would ask about this.

Aside from the war and the strife and the tragedy , certainly nobody , no excuses for what was done , it is difficult to look at the situation even domestically that Israel had were there was so much internal strife over the proposed overhaul of the judiciary .

There are people who said it was closer than any time since 1948 to be Civil War, forget Hamas .

Just the division and the strife over the Netanyahu government.

Most people say the Netanyahu government probably will not survive because of what was leading up to this and the response .

Again, I am no expert, I have not looked at the bond ratings, but it does beg the question .

>> Daniel Elliott was spoken outspoken about the ESG bill e normally do not see the state treasurer's office get very involved.

I don't think he overinvolved himself but he was outspoken and that is more than fine, but does this undercut everything he was saying months ago?

>> NIKI KELLY: It is hard to say a little.

I remember those hearings during last session and lots of times, people testified these so-called ESG investments are getting the returns, and they did not seem to care when the discussion was well yes, we are investing based on these things, but we are also getting the returns.

It seems to me that is exactly what he is saying too.

Yes, we are making a political statement .

I will say there was at least one credit rating agency who did come out and warned against volatile stocks.

>> BRANDON SMITH: Time now for viewer feedback.

Each week we pose an unscientific online poll question.

This week is state treasurer Daniel Elliott right to invest heavily in Israel?

A yes, B, no ?

Last week, but we see another political campaign from Mike pence?

I will say - - is more likely down the line but that is just me .

If you would like to take part in the poll, go to WFYI.org/IWIR and look for the poll.

A recent report by the Herald Times in Bloomington reveals that the Monroe County schools Corporation paid former state superintendent and current gubernatorial candidate Jennifer McCormick $144,000 over the last three years in no-bid contracts for consulting works .

>> The Herald Times story shows McCormick's consulting work to support the existing strategic plan pay her for about 24 days a year in each of the last three years, to the tune of $2000 per day.

The school district reportedly did not request bids from McCormick's work because it did not need to under state law.

The law requires at least three bids for contracts of at least $50,000 , and each of McCormick's was 48,000.

The money came from Covid 19 relief funds.

>> BRANDON SMITH: Jon Schwantes, no question that Jennifer McCormick is qualified to do this sort of work.

Local superintendent , state superintendent and principal.

But, do you see any issues with this?

>> JON SCHWANTES: I can give you three answers.

The political perspective, legal perspective and educational perspective.

We do have time for all of them , so I will say this.

There's nothing wrong with that I don't think, no laws were broken certainly and be of some people from both parties.

- - Had a nice consulting contract during his time in office, not as a candidate.

Candidates unless they are independently wealthy at the fund them somewhere.

It's a bit of a conflict with the public entity that is committed to improvement of our state through the education of its own people were some fatcat Democrat that says I am going to put you on retainer consultancy so you can argue what is better.

There is still the optics.

The threshold for reporting for fitting was $50,000 per year and this is 48.

Could you at least have done a lot lower or a little higher so there wasn't that odd we are almost there, I'm not saying that but when into it , but if you are a candidate for office as she is, why leave any ammunition that can be used by your opponents too .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Even if you wanted to go the no-bid route, this was not super public.

Isn't that a problem?

>> NIKI KELLY: The problem I had reading the story was not the contract, obviously she can do that work, it was that they could not sure what she did.

First it was she was creating this strategy, strategic plan.

Then it was no, she is working on the existing strategic plan.

They cannot provide any work product or anything that she suggested they move forward on.

That was my issue, what do they get for the money is more my concern than the contract itself .

>> BRANDON SMITH: She is at this point the presumptive Democratic candidate.

There is another perennial candidate who never has any success so it looks like she will be the Democratic candidate for governor.

Will this be our problem for her?

>> ANN DELANEY: I don't think so.

She's also qualified to do the work.

Somebody will go back and do the research at I want to get for that money and I'm sure she did.

She is clearly qualified to do itt is what it is.

>> BRANDON SMITH: Democrat this is an uphill battle to climb to win a statewide race, but if she is a legitimate candidate or legitimate threat to have that sort of success, is this the sort of thing that will wait her down at all?

Or , it's a year before next year's election, it's a blur .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Have a conflict of interest because she was a Republican the first time she got paid $48,000 in the last two times a Democrat.

[Laughter].

I am not sure who to attack .

>> JON SCHWANTES: If it was in the Carmel school literacy is an entirely different twist .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Speaking of this week's elections, Ohioans voted to legalize cannabis for those 21 or older.

Meanwhile, back in Indiana, the legislative study committee made no recommendations following seven hours of discussion on the legalization of adult use cannabis.

Abigal Ruhman said lawmakers were tasked with discussing how cannabis users relate to workforce issues and teen use.

>> Senator Scott Baldwin is the chair of the interim study committee on commerce and economic development.

He says he will not offer any recommendations related to cannabis .

>> We have a lot of competing opinions in this room.

If you want to be until midnight, I do not think you will gain consensus.

As a share, I am not going to say we're going to recommend anything associated with the last topic .

>> The vice chair bÃmight have or CBD products that are already legal in the state.

Baldwin said he would rather not have any recommendations on him or cannabis.

When it came time to go on a final report that include recommendations on other issues, two members objected to the lack of recognition on cannabis.

Both voted no and the report failed by one vote.

>> BRANDON SMITH: Niki Kelly, the question I wrote here was, does Ohio's election results matter to you?

At Odyssey matters to folks who live close to Ohio and will be able to go across the border, but in terms of I saw the stories talking about the pressure is put on Indiana.

There was already lots of pressure .

>> NIKI KELLY: That has been building and building.

My fear is that we are at a tipping point where now, even the people who might have been open to it are now going to be like nope, I am not giving into this.

Almost put up a wall saying we are not going to be pressed into this because of a bunch of other states..

I wonder if it will hurt a little bit .

>> ANN DELANEY: You are not to be present asking the voters with the voters while on this issue in our choice?

Why don't they have a nonbinding referendum?

Are they afraid?

I think they are of what the voters would say because they are not in touch with them.

The idea that democracy works is that you are doing the will of the people who put you there.

They ought to add least ask that question .

>> BRANDON SMITH: There is precedent for it .

But we as Republicans are quick to point out .

>> The president is led by the legislature, not citizens .

>> ANN DELANEY: That isthe problem, otherwise they would be on the ballot .

>> The Indiana Republican Party made very clear in his platform that we are not a democracy, we are Democratic Republic .

Their argument is that referendum is every two years, there are state have elections .

>> ANN DELANEY: In gerrymandered districts .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Does this put any extra pressure on Indiana?

>> JON SCHWANTES: There will be the argument that it is hurting our illicit cannabis dealers that we cannot compete fairly with the legal cannabis dealers.

The dollars are going out of state, I guarantee you.

We have heard that the pastor's arguments .

>> BRANDON SMITH: We have known that .

>> JON SCHWANTES: Let's remember that the current governor, last time I checked his term is not up, he is already set it is a no go in his mind.

Not philosophically necessarily, he is not for or against weeds, it is against federal law and in terms of - - >> ANN DELANEY: The majority of the states will have it legalize now .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: The charge of this committee this year , this interim, was to explore and identify the problems with legalization.

What is it due to the illicit market, what is the duty under age use, what is it due to workforce issues, what is the impact on police?

I hear what you are saying , but that put this on the ballot and it would be 70% yes in Indiana, that is true.

The race issue as I talked about is we should definitely do that, it's a lot of money and states are doing it.

That's the beginning, middle and end of people's investigation on thinking it through.

I think because we have leadership including the government, we are not for this yet, instantly got the federal level which is what the Biden administration is doing.

We missed the boat, it legalize to some degree in the federal level or allowed interstate and we do have the opportunity to grow the industry , so to speak .

>> That create an issue, talking about the federal government getting something first it does not happen often, but the federal government is get to this first before Indiana ultimately does anything really, because other states put in the framework similar to what we do with the online sales tax.

It had not happened yet, but we were prepared for it .

That evening create the potential for some chaos in Indiana?

>> ANN DELANEY: If it does get D scheduled by the federal government, it can be mailed and delivered by UPS carrier.

We will be left behind .

>> JON SCHWANTES: That was an argument for the gaming for online gaming, it is interesting how you can use the argument of competition .

>> You brought up Eric Holcomb, I saw story in South Bend talking about Jake bÃMichael brought legislation on legalization last year thinking it will wait for the next governor.

I do not remember a time when Indian House Republicans carried on what Eric Holcomb thought on anything.

But apparently, this is the one.

Finally, Jay Kenworthy who works for Senator Todd Young posted online that amendment to protect his mother works at this week looking to vote.

The man wanted to cast his ballot for governor.

Even after Jay's mother said that race was not till next year, he insisted it was Mr. because he is seeing all the ads on TV.

This can be forgiven for thinking Indiana was like any governor this year?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: It's even worse than you think.

He cannot - - Donald Trump that was put against Reeves .

>> ANN DELANEY: He was a Trump supporter.

The thing about those that is so crazy, the fees for these ads go up again, now that the election is over , thank God.

That is all I got to say.

You cannot watch anything .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: This is the most expensive municipal election we have ever had .

For me, is not even close the most expensive public and governor .

>> JON SCHWANTES: Who is going to vote for?

At this point, one person focus what is valuable .

>> BRANDON SMITH: That is Indiana's Week in Review for this week.

Our panel is Democrat Ann DeLaney, Republican Mike O'Brien, Jon Schwantes of Indiana lawmakers, and Niki Kelly of the Indiana capital Chronicle.

You can find Indiana's Week in Review's podcast and episodes at WFYI.org/IWIR or on the PBS app.

I'm Brandon Smith of Indiana public broadcasting.

Join us next time, because a lot can happen in an Indiana week.

[Music].

>> The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana's Week in Review is a WFYI