[piano intro] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to "Side by Side."

My guest today became the youngest person ever elected to the Tennessee General Assembly.

He was just 21, and he went on to serve five terms.

His leadership did not end there.

He transformed a small 10-store chain into one of the largest department store businesses in the country.

He also helped an energy company and a regional bank survive two of our most difficult financial crises.

Then he served one year as the interim president of his alma mater, the University of Memphis.

Today, we'll meet Mr. Brad Martin.

- [Announcer 1] Funding for "Side by Side with Nido Qubein" is made possible by.

- [Announcer 2] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

- [Announcer 3] The Budd Group has been serving the southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- [Announcer 4] Truist.

We're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist, leaders in banking, unwavering in care.

[uplifting music] - Brad, welcome to "Side by Side."

Look, my friend, I have interviewed many outstanding people.

I can count on one hand the people who have done as many things as you have, and you are the top of that heap.

When I look at your life, what you have done in your life, and the variety of things that you've done in your life, it's nothing short of remarkable.

I gotta figure out on this program today what gave you the energy, what gives you the energy, the enthusiasm, the skill base to have done so many things in education, in retail, in government.

So almost every sector, you've had your fingers in it.

Where were you born?

- I was born in Columbus, Ohio.

And I really grew up in Ohio for about 10, 15 years, and then I moved to the South, and I've lived in the South ever since.

- And you moved to Tennessee?

- I moved to Tennessee.

My father was an electrical engineer, my mother, a homemaker, and we lived in Tennessee, and I've lived in Tennessee for the [indistinct] of my life.

- And you went, undergraduate, you went where?

- I went to the University of Memphis, then Memphis State for undergraduate.

- Undergraduate?

And also- - And then on to Vanderbilt for business school.

- Yeah.

So then you had your master's from Vanderbilt University.

- That's right.

- Memphis and Nashville, all Tennessee.

- Mm-hmm.

- You were very young when you ran for the legislature in Tennessee?

- Yes, I've always been impatient and didn't wanna wait to try things.

I was a political science student, student government president at the university.

Went on an intern program to the Tennessee General Assembly, stayed there for a few weeks, and thought, well, heck, I can do this.

Came back, ran against an incumbent, and to the surprise of most people, won.

- And you stayed there for five terms.

- Five terms.

It was part-time job.

- [Nido] Were these two-year terms?

- Two-year terms.

Yes, sir.

- Yeah.

Somehow, impatience and serving in the legislature don't go together very well.

- Well, I was impatient to have an impact, to serve.

- [Nido] Ah, I see.

- My interest in political science was really about really having a heart for service that I think my parents instilled in me.

And so the impatience was I wanted to change things, I wanted to do things, I wanted to contribute.

And if you're 20 years old, no money, no resources, how do you do it?

And I concluded you could do it if you could get elected to an important political office.

- Yeah, yeah, and you did.

And full cycle forward, you went back to your alma mater when they needed you the most and served as president of the university for a year.

- Yes, it was fun.

40 years after I was president of the student government, I did a one-year stint as the volunteer interim president of the university.

- Yes.

- And it was a great experience.

- Yeah.

- And a hard job.

- Yeah.

- I admire any of you who do it, and particularly somebody who's done it- - Yeah.

- Like you have.

- What was your biggest challenge?

When you're interim, you don't feel like you can change the world.

- Well, I had the good fortune of being asked by the governor to do this.

And I told the governor that I would do it for a year, no more, no less.

And I was only going to work on five or six things of strategic importance and nothing else.

And what I've learned by many errors along the way is if you try to do too much, you have no chance.

So I really focused on five or six things that I thought were transformative.

We were able to execute most of those, and it was a terrific experience.

- Give us an example of one of them.

- Well, one was outcomes.

We had been rocking along- - Student outcomes.

- For an extended period of time with flat student performance and outcomes.

And sometimes in higher education, the institution will say, "Well, it's up to the students."

But my word, it's up to the school to ensure that we have the resources, the focus, the capabilities to succeed.

So we started measuring student outcomes.

We started measuring the customer satisfaction of the students in the various service areas to support the students.

We launched a new initiative in urban teacher prep, a big issue for Memphis, Tennessee, and three or four things like that in addition to running the enterprise on a fiscally sound basis.

- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

How big is the University of Memphis?

- About 20,000-plus students.

- Yeah, yeah.

I watch their basketball occasionally.

They're doing pretty well.

- Yes, it's a great program for sure.

- Yeah.

So I don't know where we begin with you, because there's so many places one can begin.

But let me begin with Saks Fifth Avenue.

- [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- It was a chain of about, what, 10 stores?

- We had about, actually, a five-store department store chain called Proffitt's.

And the transition was that after I was in the legislature, I still was interested in public service.

Planned to run for governor.

Was looking for something to do in the interim.

Got some friends together, bought this small five-store department store business, never planning to work there.

Few years later, bought five more.

- [Nido] And it was called what?

- [Brad] Proffitt's in Knoxville, Tennessee.

- P-R-O-F-I-T?

- [Brad] Two Fs, two Ts.

- Proffitt's, like someone's name, Proffitt.

- Family business for 65 years.

And with the management team and a few friends of mine who put up most of the money, we bought the company for $3 million in cash and $11 million that we borrowed, and I signed the bank note.

- Wow.

And what year was that?

- 1984.

And people say, "Well, weren't you worried?"

And I said, "No, I didn't have $11 million.

[Nido laughs] I was worried about the check I contributed for my portion of the equity."

- Yeah.

[laughs] And then how did you then combine with Saks?

- We bought another series of department store chains.

I became the CEO a few years later.

Never had intended to work there, but the CEO retired abruptly.

So I owned a lot of the company.

I owed a lot of money on my ownership of the company.

- Yes.

- And I said, "I'll work here for a while."

We went out and then bought a series of businesses and took this, what was originally these five stores, up to a $4 billion business, Proffitt's, Incorporated.

We had stores like Parisian, McRae's, Younkers, Carson Pirie Scott in the group.

And that group then bought Saks Fifth Avenue in 1998.

- I see.

And then you became?

- We changed the name.

Even though Saks Fifth Avenue was smaller than our other group, it was obviously the brand that people knew.

- Yes.

- So we changed the name of the enterprise to Saks, Incorporated.

We ran the Saks Fifth Avenue business as one division, the others as a separate division.

Did it for a number of years.

Subsequently, ended up selling off the non-Saks Fifth Avenue businesses and leaving Saks as an independent public company.

- Okay.

So how many stores does Saks have now?

- I think probably 60.

- Six, zero?

- Approximately, yes.

- All in the US?

- Yes.

Actually, I think they have one in Mexico and maybe some others overseas.

- Yeah.

And you were CEO for a while?

- Yes, I was.

For Proffitt's and Saks, it was a 20-year run for me.

So I served as chairman and CEO for about 20 years.

And we had fantastic growth experience from $70 million in revenues to about $7 billion.

The stock went up 1200% over that period of time.

And I sold my interest, and retired, and went on to do other things.

- Office was in New York?

- New York and Birmingham for the other group.

- For the Proffitt- - Yes, sir.

- Proffitt group.

- Yes, sir.

- And then somewhere along the line, Westrock Coffee Company came in?

- Yes, this is something that we've gotten involved in the last couple of years.

I had an investment company, an acquisition company that we took public and merged with a company called Westrock Coffee.

It's a great enterprise because it is not just a terrific commercial enterprise, it has a wonderful purpose.

It is a business that was founded based on the idea of paying farmers who, in many instances, are poor women in emerging countries, a fair price for the coffee beans that they grow.

And so this is a company that has gone from humble origins with one mill in Rwanda to about $1 billion business today.

And so we merged our investment company with Westrock, took it public, and I'm involved with that company today.

- That's amazing.

And then there was Chesapeake Energy Corporation.

- Yes, that's some of the best work I ever did for the least results.

But to your point earlier, we had to navigate a lot of challenges.

When I got involved, I was not an executive there, but on the board, and subsequently, chairman.

Company had $20 billion of debt and highly levered.

And obviously, very difficult in a commodity industry when you have that kinda debt.

We got it down to $8 or $9 billion.

But then the combination of the COVID demand destruction and then the price destruction with the Saudis and the Russians getting into a squabble caused the company to need to be restructured.

But we did it elegantly, preserved a lot of value in jobs, and the company is flourishing today.

- And it was, what, a utility company was it?

- No, it's natural gas and oil production.

- Natural gas and oil.

I see.

- Yes, sir.

Right.

- Mm-hmm.

So what is it about Brad Martin that he can do Saks on the one hand, he can do energy on the other hand, he gets into coffee on the other hand?

What is the common thread that ties all that together?

And he can be president of the university on yet another hand.

- Well, I think part of it is I don't know what I don't know, so I'm willing to try new things.

- [Nido] But is it ambition?

Is it- - I think it's just being inquisitive and wanting to grow.

When I quit wanting to grow and trying something new, I'm done.

I'm absolutely done.

I can't stand to be bored.

I mean, I like solitude, but I don't like boredom.

- Yeah.

- And so if there's something interesting to do, I wanna do it, and I really wanna do it if it's people that I wanna be around.

- Mm-hmm.

And today, you're still involved in Federal Express?

- Yes, I am.

I'm on the board of FedEx.

I serve as vice chairman of the board of FedEx Corporation and chair of the Audit and Finance Committee there as well.

- Yeah.

- So it is an absolute joy to be involved with that extraordinary enterprise.

Has a big operation, as you know, here in North Carolina as well.

- Yes, yes.

I was party to that.

I was on the board of the Airport Authority at the time.

- Mm-hmm.

- We worked hard on that to create jobs and bring FedEx here.

Of course, I met the chairman some years ago.

- Mm-hmm.

- And I met your president just in the last year or two- - Yes.

- As he got inducted in the Horatio Alger Association.

- Yes, it's a terrific team.

Of course, Mr. Smith was the CEO of the business, founder of the business- - Yes.

- And CEO for 50 years.

- Yes.

- And I don't know anybody else in the world who could have done what he has done.

He continues to serve as chairman, passed off some responsibilities to me as vice chairman, and then we executed the succession plan.

And Raj, as you indicated- - Yes.

- Who is now in the Horatio Alger- - [Nido] Yes.

- Is our new CEO and doing a terrific job.

- Yeah.

What are the skills that you have that resource you to be so proficiently active in so many endeavors?

Is it financial strategy?

Is it... Of course, working with people and all that.

But is it financial strategy?

Is it retail?

Although, you've been in companies that are industrial in nature.

- [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- What are those?

I'm curious to understand the fiber and fabric of this man, Brad Martin, and all these achievements, and to extract from it lessons that others perhaps can watch and learn and say, "I believe in the art of the possible, too.

Maybe I can also take some risks and do some of those things."

- Well, I would say two things.

The first, your comment about risk, is you've gotta be willing to lay it all out there and suffer the embarrassment of it might not work.

When people talk about failure as if it's some sort of a abject term, and we all know that you can recover from, quote, failure, but what I have found time and again is people don't want to risk embarrassment, embarrassment of having a financial thing not perform as perhaps they had promised, or embarrassment of not succeeding in a career initiative, or an acquisition, or a task you took on.

And if you're afraid to be embarrassed, you're not gonna get anywhere.

- Mm-hmm.

- And so first is I was willing to take that on and remain willing to take that on.

[chuckles] And I've been embarrassed on plenty of occasions when things don't work out.

Second, which I would say is a bit of an acquired trait, is the importance of simplifying complicated, otherwise complicated matters.

- [Nido] Mm.

- I mean, to me, business is business.

- Breaking down complexity.

- Absolutely.

I mean, I remember making a talk once in the department store business after we had gone from $70 million in revenues to $7 billion in less than 10 years.

And in the Q and A, a person said, "It's remarkable.

It's impossible to do this.

How could this be?"

And I said, "Wait, what we do is we buy stuff and we sell stuff.

We keep the restrooms clean, and we treat you with respect, and we don't overspend our budget."

- Mm-hmm.

- "You could do it."

So I don't wanna oversimplify things, but most businesses or enterprises, if you say what is most important, and that's where the leaders focus their time- - [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- You've got a better chance of succeeding.

- Yeah, it's about the three Ps, you know?

Product, people, and process.

- [Brad] Exactly.

- You break it down into smallest components and you can...

It sounds easier said than done, of course.

It takes a lot of skill, a lot of agility, a lot of determination, a lot of perseverance- - [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- To deal with those.

Tell me about a failure you had and how you dealt with it.

Was it the Chesapeake Energy Corporation?

Was it something else?

And you said you gotta be willing to take some embarrassment.

How do you deal with that when...

I assume people criticize you, maybe even personally.

- Oh, sure.

- And if so, what happened?

You went home and told your wife what?

Did you have a sleepless night that night?

- Well, I've had a lot of sleepless nights.

And I will say that my wife is phenomenal.

When someone says, "Ugh, that guy's no good," or, "How would he do that," or whatever, she's ready to go to war.

[chuckles] And so I love that in her.

But I mean, generally, what I have concluded over time is I'm never as good or bad as the consensus might be.

- [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- I mean, I've been on the cover of big-time magazines, and I think, wow.

I mean, what an extraordinary character.

And then I've been the subject of articles that you would go, "Well, isn't that a miserable [Nido laughs] sort of executive?"

- And neither is accurate.

- And neither of 'em are true, right?

[Nido laughs] I'm just showing up, doing my best, being transparent- - Yeah.

- Being honest- - Yeah.

- And trying to get better tomorrow.

- What a great comment, though, is that both are at the extremes.

Neither really is a balanced picture of who the person is.

- And you better not- - That is so true.

- And you better not gravitate to one or the other.

- Yes, yes.

- I mean, you better not- - [Nido] One gives you overconfidence, the other one can demolish your spirit.

- Absolutely.

So you just show up and try again.

- But how do you deal with that?

I mean, seriously, when you were criticized, we understand how you dealt with when people gave you accolades and- - [Brad] Sure.

- And you got more stock options because you were so good at what you did.

But when people beat you up, how did you deal with that?

Did you allow yourself a pity party for an hour?

Did you go on vacation for a week and just became a beach bum and said, "I'm gonna get over this"?

What did you do?

- Well, first is you just have to know who you are.

And my faith matters a lot to me.

- Yes, of course.

- I mean, at the end of the day- - [Nido] Of course.

- That is what underpins my ability to get up and do anything- - [Nido] Of course.

- And to overcome anything.

So just knowing who I am, knowing who my God is, and having that relationship, I would say, in the good times and the bad, but particularly in the bad, I learned to carve out a bit of time for me.

And if it was solitude for reading, thinking, prayer, meditation, and exercise.

- [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- And those are two things that I have basically insisted for decades that are non-negotiable in my life is time for myself and time to exercise.

- Mm-hmm.

Now you have a college son and you have two high school- - Mm-hmm.

- Twins.

What is it you want them to do in their life?

And what advice do you give them?

- We just had a family retreat this weekend and had some outside resources and other families with us, so we spent time on that particular topic.

And I shared a story with some of my friends about what my parents said to me about their expectations.

And I'd gone to a conference of a bunch of business types, and hard-chargers, and A-pluses, and blah blah.

And we were sitting around a table and seven or eight men were discussing their relationship and their parents' expectations.

One was a prominent architect, but his dad wanted him to follow him in medicine.

The whole list was like this, people who failed to meet, although successful, the expectations of their parents' career or profession.

They got to me and said, "What about you?"

And I said, "My parents had no demands or expectations about our profession or career.

They merely said, 'You are to live a life of purpose and be a good person.'"

- [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- And you could tell they were, murmur was, "Well, I guess that didn't work out very well."

And I said, "You know, worked out okay.

I have two brothers.

One was the head of Law Review at Harvard Law School and Assistant Solicitor General of the United States when he was 25.

Similar with the other, one of the top lawyers in America.

And I ran a 'Fortune 500' company as a CEO.

So it worked out."

But the standard was live a life of purpose- - Mm-hmm.

- And be a good person.

- Mm-hmm.

That's beautiful advice.

- That's my expectation.

- Yeah, that's beautiful advice.

That's important.

What is it you look for?

You've hired a lot of people in life.

You've watched some of them rise to new levels of excellence.

You've watched some of them figuratively die with the music still within them.

- [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- What are the two or three things that make a difference?

- I want someone constantly trying to get better, and constantly learning, and who does not have all the answers, and who's not complacent about being satisfied with where things are today.

I want someone who cares for his or her colleagues and supports them.

I met a guy early on in my career who wrote a book called "Love and Profit."

And the theory was people say you have your work and you have your life.

Not really.

- [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- I mean, they are intertwined.

And I want people who support their colleagues in good times and bad.

And then, obviously, people who have the grit to just keep trying.

- Stick-to-itiveness.

- Just keep trying.

- Yeah.

- Absolutely.

- Not to give up at the first turn of events.

- [Brad] Exactly.

- I'm intrigued by the Martin Family Foundation, which does a lot of good in your state and beyond, and your interest in something called Hope 2 Hire.

- Mm-hmm.

- What is that?

- Hope 2 Hire is a job training program that actually occurs in a prison.

We started the program in Memphis in the Shelby County Correction Institution I guess probably six or seven years ago.

I love social entrepreneurs.

I love to invest behind people who are doing not-for-profit work but doing it with an outcome orientation- - [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- And a result-driven focus.

And there's a person in Memphis who runs this release program that picks up and helps support those who are coming out of prison.

We started talking about, what can we do while they're in prison?

And obviously, if you come out of prison, you need a variety of things, and one is a place to live and one's a job.

Hard to get a job if you've got a felony conviction.

So we started by saying, "Well, won't you give people a second chance?"

That's not scalable.

So we then said, "What are the disciplines for which there's unlimited demand and limited supply in our market?"

Bricklayers, carpenters, logistics managers, and culinary staff.

So four of us funded a program in the prison, all private-funded the last six years.

And we have graduated about 250 people with those disciplines.

And the recidivism rate way down.

They're working.

They're working at livable wages.

They're doing jobs in the community.

So business wins, families win, the community wins.

- Mm-hmm.

Has it been completely successful?

Have you had some failures in it of some- - Well, we have some individuals that don't make it, but that's what I love about the leader of the program.

- [Nido] Yeah.

- He is outcome-oriented.

It's a social program.

- [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- But we have high expectations if you want access to this program.

- Brad, you've been involved in so many businesses.

As you look at America today and economic conditions we're in, geopolitical- - [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- Effects that we all feel, what is it you see?

Are you hopeful about the future?

Are you concerned about the future?

What is your take on all that?

- I'm a glass-half-full person.

- Yeah.

- So I am always hopeful, but I'm concerned.

- [Nido] Yes.

- I'm concerned about our focus on the fundamental values in which this country was built.

- [Nido] Yes.

- And how important it is, I think, that we, in the midst of all of the chaos, we remain true to- - [Nido] Yeah.

- People have a fair shot.

The private sector is important.

Initiative is important.

Freedom is important.

And I think if we keep the framework right, then our economy will be very, very powerful.

- [Nido] Mm-hmm.

- If we don't keep the framework right, it makes it a lot tougher place to do business and grow.

- Yeah.

I always say that civility and respect of others and appreciation for the goodness we have in this country are important ingredients of anyone's personhood.

- [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- And then I quickly say, America's not a perfect country.

Many inequities in its past.

- [Brad] Oh, sure.

- Many inequalities in its present.

But the opportunities here are by the truckload.

- [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- How else you would explain all these people literally dying to come into the country?

- [Brad] Exactly.

- Illegally or otherwise.

- [Brad] Mm-hmm.

- The reality is, for an immigrant like me, I have a depth of appreciation for the opportunities.

And if you just give a guy an opportunity, he or she are gonna be willing to go out there and make something happen.

I hope you've written a book.

If you haven't, you must because you've learned so many principles.

You've made so many things happen.

You've had such great impact.

[uplifting music] Just know I admire you for that and I thank you for that.

And I thank you for being with me today on "Side by Side."

- [Brad] Great privilege.

Thank you, sir.

[uplifting music continues] [uplifting music continues] - [Announcer 1] Funding for "Side by Side with Nido Qubein" is made possible by.

- [Announcer 2] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

- [Announcer 3] The Budd Group has been serving the southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- [Announcer 4] Truist.

We're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist, leaders in banking, unwavering in care.