>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, AT LONG LAST VIRGIN GALACTIC IS WEIGHTLESS.

NOW WHAT?

>> Branson: FOR THE NEXT GENERATION OF DREAMERS, IF WE CAN DO THIS, JUST IMAGINE WHAT YOU CAN DO.

>> Gene: THE GRAVITY OF THE EDUCATION CRISIS ON THE NAVAJO NATION AS THE PANDEMIC RECEDES.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

JUST HOW HARD HAS IT BEEN FOR SOME STUDENTS TO LEARN DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THE ANSWER WHICH INVOLVES DRIVING A TRUCK TO THE TOP OF A HILL WHERE THERE IS CELL SERVICE IS ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE.

SENIOR PRODUCER MATT GRUBS CHATS WITH A JOURNALIST COVERING IT.

THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR IS A YEAR AWAY AND THE RACE JUST GOT A CHARGE THIS MONTH FROM THE OFFICIAL AND WIDELY EXPECTED ENTRY OF STATE REPRESENTATIVE REBECCA DOW.

THE LINE OPINION PANEL WILL LOOK AT THE CAMPAIGN AND ISSUES WE EXPECT CANDIDATES TO BE TALKING ABOUT AT THIS TIME NEXT YEAR.

WE BEGIN WITH NEWS A DECADE-AND-A-HALF IN THE MAKING.

HERE IS THE LINE.

FINALLY, RIGHT, AFTER YEARS OF MISSED DEADLINES, VIRGIN GALACTIC MADE GOOD ON RICHARD BRANSON'S PROMISE TO SEND PEOPLE INTO SPACE FROM NEW MEXICO'S DESERT A HALF DOZEN AT A TIME WITH WHAT THE COMPANY CALLED A FULLY CREWED FLIGHT ON JULY 11.

MARK THAT DATE IN INFAMY.

WE CARE, OF COURSE, BECAUSE TAXPAYERS SHELLED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THE VENTURE.

HERE TO TALK THROUGH WHEN OR IF NEW MEXICO COULD EXPECT A PAYOFF IS OUR LINE OPINION PANEL ATTORNEY AND LONG TIME LINE REGULAR LAURA SANCHEZ IS BACK.

EDITOR AND PUBLISHER OF THE SANTA FE REPORTER, JULIE ANN GRIMM RETURNS THIS WEEK AS DOES ANOTHER LINE REGULAR, TOM GARRITY.

SINCE YOU'RE THE MARKETING GUY, LET ME START WITH YOU.

THAT BROADCAST REMINDED US ALL, THIS IS A COMMERCIAL VENTURE.

DIDN'T IT?

>> Tom: IT IS.

THE COMMERCIAL VENTURE PROVIDED A LOT OF GREAT EXPOSURE FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

WHILE THE ACTUAL EVENT WAS FOCUSED ON RICHARD BRANSON AND HIS INVESTMENT, THE DAY TWO STORY WAS REALLY FOCUSED ON WHY NEW MEXICO WAS SELECTED AND I THINK THAT IT WAS A BIG WIN FOR NEW MEXICO BECAUSE THE STATE IS SEEN AS AN EARLY ADOPTER HAVING STARTED INVESTING IN THIS PROJECT MORE THAN A DECADE AGO.

SO, THERE IS A LOT OF DEFINITE PROS.

OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF MONEY INVESTED BY THE STATE AND PEOPLE WONDER WHERE THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT IS.

WE GOT A PART OF THAT BACK ON JULY 11 AND I THINK THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE SEEING MORE AND MORE IN THE SPACE TOURISM.

SPACE PORT IS REALLY MORE THAN VIRGIN GALACTIC.

THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF OTHER MISSIONS OUT THERE, WHICH WE CAN TALK ABOUT ANOTHER TIME BUT, YEAH, SO IT IS A GREAT WIN FOR NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: ARE YOU IN AGREEMENT?

GREAT WIN FOR NEW MEXICO?

>> Laura: ABSOLUTELY.

I AM A BIG FAN OF SPACE AND ANYBODY THAT WATCHES KNOWS I AM A BIG FAN OF STAR TREK, STAR WARS.

FOR ME THIS IS JUST AMAZING.

IT IS SO NICE TO BE PART OF SOMETHING POSITIVE, SOMETHING LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE.

WE GOT A LOT OF ACCOLADES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BRANSON DID AND VIRGIN GALACTIC, BUT ALL WAS BACKGROUND OF NEW MEXICO.

A LOT OF REMOTES HAPPENING FROM HERE, SO, ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO BOOST OUR PRESENCE, I THINK, AND OUR NATIONAL PICTURE AND PEOPLE CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT IT.

OF COURSE, ALL OF THE STUFF THAT I SAW HAD NEW MEXICO TRUE ON THE TOP, YOU KNOW, LEFT CORNER.

THAT IS ALWAYS NICE BRANDING AND HOPEFULLY PEOPLE CHECKED OUT OUR STATE WEBSITE FOR TOURISM.

>> Gene: PICK UP ON THAT.

I AM GLAD LAURA MENTIONED THE ZIA LOGO.

OF ALL THE FEEDBACK I SAW ON FACEBOOK THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE NO.

1 THING FOR LOCALS, MOST PROUD TO SEE THAT ON THAT SPACE SHIP LIKE THAT.

WHAT IS THE VALUE, ALL THAT KIND OF THING?

JUST FOR US, FOR OTHERS?

HOW DO YOU SEE THE VALUE THERE?

>> Julie Ann: WE HAVE ALL BEEN WATCHING THE STARS, SO TO SPEAK, AND THESE PROJECTS HAVE BEEN UNDERWAY WITH BUSINESS STARTS SO I THINK THAT IS EXCITING FOR OUR STATE.

I THINK IN THIS TIME IT IS REALLY HARD FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO HEAR THE WORD BILLIONAIRE AND BE EXCITED ABOUT IT, ESPECIALLY WITH NEW MEXICO REMAINING AT THE BOTTOM OF ALL THE EDUCATION IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT IS HARD FOR SOME PEOPLE TO STOMACH THE SPENDING ON THE SPACE RACE EVEN THOUGH MUCH OF IT IS PRIVATE.

THERE IS ALSO A LOT OF PUBLIC INVESTMENT.

YOU HAVE THE COUNTY OF DONA ANA AND SIERRA THAT ARE REPAYING, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION WORTH OF DEBT FOR THE SPACE PORT.

TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE, THAT IS ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THE CITY AND COUNTY OF SANTA FE SPENT ON THE DIVERSION PROJECT WHICH PROVIDES WATER FOR ALL THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THIS REGION, ONE OF THE SOURCES.

SO, WHILE I THINK IT IS EXCITING, IT HAS ALSO BROUGHT UP A LOT OF ISSUES ABOUT ECONOMIC CONDITIONS AND DISPARITY AND, AGAIN, IT IS 600 PEOPLE HAVE BOUGHT TICKETS TO USE THIS COMMERCIAL SPACE TRAVEL TO RIDE WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY LIKE A CARNIVAL RIDE INTO SPACE TO GET A VIEW OF THE EARTH.

THEY ARE PAYING MORE THAN $200,000 EACH TO DO THAT.

I THINK FROM WHERE MANY OF US SIT, THAT JUST IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

>> Laura: ARE YOU SPACE SHAMING?

IS THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING?

>> Julie Ann: MY DAD IS A BIG FAN AND HE SIGNED UP FOR THE SWEEPSTAKES, I HOPE THAT HE GETS TO GO, BUT I JUST WANT TO BRING UP, IT IS NOT ALL UNICORNS, RAINBOWS AND MARIACHIS, AS WE LIKE TO SAY.

>> Gene: REASONABLE POINT.

TOM, PICK UP ON THAT.

FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IT IS A LOT OF ANGST HERE ABOUT THIS, A LITTLE BIT OF HEARTBURN THAT YOU HAVE GOT 1000 PEOPLE ON THE GROUND MAKING SURE THIS THING OPERATES CORRECTLY AND WE DON'T GET THAT KIND OF ATTENTION IN LOTS OF OTHER PARTS OF OUR LIFE.

IS IT A SEPARATE DEAL TO YOU?

SHOULD WE CONSIDER THESE THINGS SEPARATELY OR HOW SHOULD WE MIX THEM IF YOU HAVE TO?

>> Tom: EVERYTHING HAS A PLACE AND WE CAN DEFINITELY FOCUS ON HOW ELSE COULD THAT MONEY HAVE BEEN SPENT AND LOOK AT OTHER AREAS WHERE PUBLIC MONEY IS SPENT WHETHER IT BE EDUCATION, WHETHER IT BE INFRASTRUCTURE.

ALL OF THOSE ARE VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES AND ALL ARE FUNDED TO THE LEVEL THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS NEED IT TO BE FUNDED, BUT I THINK THERE IS A BIG NEED IN WHAT WE SAW HERE OVER THIS LAST 10 YEARS, NOT JUST THE SPACEPORT BUT A VARIETY OF OTHER AREAS, PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP.

AND THOSE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS TAKE PLACE IN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT SCENARIOS, WHETHER IN UNIVERSITIES, NATIONAL LABS, SPACEPORT IS JUST ONE SMALL PART OF THAT PARTICULAR AREA THAT HAPPENED TO GET A LOT OF PUBLICITY, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

>> Gene: LAURA, I GOT A BUSINESS QUESTION FOR YOU HERE.

VIRGIN GALACTIC SIGNED A 20 YEAR LEASE TO BE THE ANCHOR TENANT AT SPACEPORT.

THAT MEANS PROBABLY SIX YEARS OF ACTUAL BUSINESS OPERATIONS DOING WHAT THEY SAID THEY ARE GOING TO DO A FEW YEARS AGO.

THE IDEA OF A NEW CONTRACT HAS BEEN JUST A LITTLE NOT THERE QUITE YET.

ARE WE IN TROUBLE HERE IN JUST A COUPLE YEARS?

>> Laura: I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS TIME TO PANIC OR THINK WE ARE IN TROUBLE.

I THINK IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO NEGOTIATE THESE KIND OF RELATIONSHIPS.

IT TOOK A LONG TIME.

IT'S INTERESTING TO READ SOME OF THE COVERAGE AND SEE GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON COMMENTING ON THIS AND TALKING ABOUT HOW IT WAS VINDICATION TO A CERTAIN EXTENT OF HIS THOUGHTS BACK WHEN THIS WAS JUST AN IDEA.

THAT WAS INTERESTING.

I WAS AROUND DURING THAT TIME AS MANY OF YOU WERE IN THOSE DISCUSSIONS, BUT IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO NEGOTIATE THESE KIND OF DEALS.

I AM NOT SURE WE ARE IN PLACE WHERE WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED.

I THINK THIS WILL BE SOMETHING, HOPEFULLY, IF IT GOES WELL, BARRING ANY KIND OF HUGE DISASTERS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS A POSSIBILITY ALWAYS, I THINK THAT WE ARE IN A GOOD PLACE TO SEE MORE OF THIS TO COME.

>> Gene: PRICE REMAINS AN ISSUE.

I'LL USE YOU AS AN EXAMPLE.

WHAT IS YOUR NUMBER TO GO TO SPACE?

IS IT 50,000?

100,000, 150,000?

YOU, PERSONALLY, WHAT WOULD YOU PONY UP TO GO INTO SPACE?

>> Laura: YOU KNOW, I AM REALLY HAPPY TO BE A SPECTATOR ON THIS.

I DON'T EVEN RIDE AMUSEMENT PARK RIDES, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

SO, I AM REALLY INTERESTED IN SORT OF WATCHING IT UNFOLD, BUT I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DOING IT MYSELF PERSONALLY.

I AM OKAY JUST RIGHT ABOVE THE CLOUDS.

>> Tom: I THINK THE $200,000 TICKET PRICE IS REALLY LOW END.

WHEN TICKETS WENT ON SALE FIVE YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, NOW I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THAT PRICE IS GOING TO ABSOLUTELY, NO PUN INTENDED, SKY ROCKET, BECAUSE THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS HAS JUST INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY.

COMPETITION INCREASED, WHICH WOULD TYPICALLY DECREASE PRICE, BUT WITH JEFF BEZOS, HIS LAUNCH, WHICH WILL BE TAKEN JUST SOUTH OF NEW MEXICO, $200,000 IS A BARGAIN I THINK AS FAR AS WHAT WE WILL FIND IN THE FUTURE.

>> Gene: CAN WE EXPECT IF BRANSON AND VIRGIN GALACTIC ARE MAKING MONEY, NEW MEXICO IS GOING TO MAKE MONEY AS WELL?

>> Julie Ann: I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF ALL THE DIFFERENT PIECES.

I AM CURIOUS ABOUT WHETHER THAT TICKET REVENUE, ARE WE GETTING THE GRT ON EVERY TICKET?

AND HOW DID THEY SET THAT UP?

NEW MEXICO HAS NOT LOCKED IN THIS WHOLE BUYING THINGS ON THE INTERNET AND COLLECTING TAX REVENUE SITUATION, SO I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THAT, ALTHOUGH YOU MAY BE AWARE AND READERS, WATCHERS MAY BE AWARE THAT THE GRT SYSTEM IN NEW MEXICO IS VERY PRIVATE.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH CAME FROM WHICH BUSINESSES AND WHY.

THAT IS JUST THE NATURE OF THE LAWS HERE ABOUT THAT KIND OF DISCLOSURE.

>> Laura: I WORKED AT TAX AND REV FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

YOU CAN'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHICH TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING WHAT BUT WHEN YOU SEE AN INCREASE FROM A CERTAIN SECTOR IN, LET'S SAY, DONA ANA COUNTY AND SIERRA COUNTY OVER TIME YOU WILL PROBABLY BE ABLE TO SEE SOME TRENDS THAT INDICATE THAT THERE IS A GRT COMING IN.

I'LL TELL YOU, I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED, WE CAN PROBABLY LOOK THIS UP, IF THERE WAS ANY KIND OF GRT EXEMPTION FOR THIS.

IF YOU'RE PROVIDING A SERVICE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, YOU'RE PAYING YOUR GRT.

IF YOU'RE NOT PAYING IT, THEY GET YOU EVENTUALLY.

I DO THINK THERE WILL BE GRT REVENUE COMING FROM THIS OVER TIME.

>> Gene: A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT HERE.

I GOT TO GET THIS IN.

TOURISM DEPARTMENT, INTERESTINGLY, IS CLOSELY TRACKING DEVELOPMENT OF THE TRAVEL MARKET TO AND FROM SPACEPORTS.

THAT IS INTERESTING, YOU KNOW.

ESSENTIALLY SPACEPORTS BECOME ANOTHER AIRPORT, TOURISM DEPARTMENT THINKS THAT MIGHT EVENTUALLY BE A LARGER POOL OF MONEY THAN THOSE LOOKING FOR UP AND BACK TRIP FROM THE SPACEPORT.

DOES ANYONE HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT THAT MARKET WOULD BE?

IS THAT A VIABLE ANGLE?

>> Tom: IT IS AN ANGLE.

WHETHER IT IS VIABLE, I THINK ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

THE DEPARTMENT OF TOURISM IS VERY MUCH INVESTED IN THIS.

THEY DID PAY 1.5 MILLION-DOLLARS FOR THE PRESENTED BY NEW MEXICO TRUE THAT APPEARED ON ALL THE VIRGIN GALACTIC VIDEOS.

SO, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE WANTING TO SEE SUCCESS.

I THINK POTENTIALLY TRACKING THE SPACE PORT IN THE SAME WAY THAT THEY TRACK SANTA FE AIRPORT, THE SUNPORT, WE WILL HAVE TO SEE IF THERE IS A LOT OF REVENUE TO BE GENERATED FROM THAT, BUT I THINK THAT THE BIGGER STORY IS THAT YOU HAVE THE SPACEPORT IS TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WHAT BALLOON FIESTA IS TO TOURISM.

I THINK THE SPACEPORT ANGLE IS REALLY MORE OF AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PITCH AS FAR AS WHY BUSINESSES ARE BEING BASED DOWN IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO, ALBUQUERQUE'S EMERGING PRESENCE IN THE AEROSPACE INDUSTRY, SO THAT IS REALLY, I THINK, THE BIG TAKE AWAY FROM THE SUCCESSFUL LAUNCH AND LANDING.

>> Gene: LAURA, JUST A LAST WORD ON THIS.

SPACE TOURISM, YOU THINK ABOUT 17 YEARS AGO WHEN PEOPLE STARTED THROWING THAT TERM AROUND, PEOPLE WERE LIKE, WHAT?

THIS IS NOT EVEN POSSIBLE.

NOW THAT WE HAVE GOTTEN OFF THE GROUND, SO TO SPEAK, ARE YOU MORE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE OF NEW MEXICO AND SPACE TOURISM OR THE SAME?

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF IT?

>> Laura: I AM MORE OPTIMISTIC.

I THINK THIS WAS A HUGE STAKE IN THE GROUND SO TO SPEAK ON GETTING THAT ENTIRE INDUSTRY OFF THE GROUND.

NO PUN INTENDED ALTHOUGH IT IS PUN DAY FOR ALL OF THAT.

I DO THINK IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T SEE A LOT OF TRAFFIC LIKE WE DO HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND SANTA FE.

THOSE ARE ESTABLISHED TOURIST DESTINATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT IN AREAS LIKE SIERRA COUNTY, TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCES, SOME OF THE HOT SPRINGS DOWN THERE, WHICH GREAT, IF YOU EVER HAVE A CHANCE TO GO DOWN THERE.

LAS CRUCES AND SOME OF ITS OUTDOOR RECREATION, I THINK IT IS HUGE FOR THOSE AREAS IF THEY CAN BUNDLE UP SOME OF THOSE ACTIVITIES AS THEY COME TO NEW MEXICO IT WILL BE HUGE FOR THOSE COUNTIES.

>> Gene: HAVE TO SET THE SPACEPORT ASIDE FOR THE TIME BEING.

THIS GROUP IS BACK TALKING POLITICS IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.

>> Clahchischiligi: I WAS REALLY JUST LOOKING FOR UNACCOUNTED FOR STUDENTS ON THE RESERVATION.

I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHAT THOSE UNACCOUNTED FOR STUDENTS WERE DOING.

WHERE WERE THEY AND WHAT WERE THEY DOING AND TO KIND OF OCCUPY THEIR TIME, IF THEY WERE EITHER NOT IN SCHOOL ANYMORE OR JUST KIND OF DROPPED OFF.

WHY THEY DROPPED OFF.

>> Gene: UNM IS READY TO BRING BACK THE PACK THIS FALL WITH FULL IN-PERSON LEARNING.

THEY FLIRTED WITH THE IDEA OF REQUIRING VACCINATIONS OF ALL STUDENTS, STAFF AND FACULTY BUT IN THE END AND AFTER GETTING PLENTY OF PUBLIC INPUT, THEY BACKED OFF THAT IDEA.

AS I FOUND OUT THIS WEEK IN A SPECIAL FACEBOOK LIVE, THE GOAL IS TO GET A 100% VACCINATION RATE AND UNM'S CHIEF MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, BLAIR, HAD SOME IDEAS HOW TO GET THERE.

ALSO JOINING ME WAS GABE SANCHEZ OF UNM CENTER FOR SOCIAL POLICY, TO PROVIDE IMPORTANT RESEARCH ON WHY SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL HESITANT TO GET VACCINATED.

>> Blair: WE ARE FOLLOWING ON ANY OF THE STATE GUIDANCE AND WE ARE REFERRING TO CDC BUT MASK WEARING FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T VACCINATED IS ALSO PART OF OUR POLICY ON CAMPUS.

AND RIGHT NOW, WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS GET EVERYBODY VACCINATED.

THIS IS A REALLY BIG PUSH.

THE PRESIDENT SENT OUT A MESSAGE ON MONDAY AND SET THIS ASPIRATIONAL GOAL FOR 100% VACCINATION.

OUR HEALTH PLAN CENTER DID A 10 TO 100 CHALLENGE.

THEY ARE AT 93% VACCINATED RIGHT NOW.

TO KEEP US SAFE AND ALSO TO JUST REALLY CREATE THIS CULTURE OF EFFICACY IN PROTECTING OURSELVES AND THE PACK AND OUR COMMUNITY AS WE MOVE FORWARD FROM COVID, FROM FLU, NOT COMING TO WORK SICK BUT REALLY BEING MINDFUL OF OUR HEALTH AND THE HEALTH OF OUR COMMUNITY AND THE IMPACT IT HAS, THAT WOULD BE A LONG-TERM GOAL.

SHORT-TERM GOAL IS TO GET PEOPLE VACCINATED.

WE WILL BE OFFERING INCENTIVE DRIVES, PROMOTING HEAVILY IN THE UPCOMING WEEKS BEFORE OUR STUDENTS RETURN TO CAMPUS.

>> Gene: THAT IS A PERFECT LEAD IN TO GABE SANCHEZ FROM THE UNM CENTER FOR SOCIAL POLICY AND THE STUDY YOU FOLKS HAVE TAKEN ON TO FIND OUT WHY, IN FACT, FOLKS ARE NOT WILLING TO GET VACCINATED, SOMETIMES AFTER THE FIRST VACCINATION, SOMETIMES ZERO.

TALK ABOUT THE STUDY.

I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW LARGE IT WAS.

TELL US WHAT THE GOAL WAS AND WHAT YOU WANTED TO GET ACROSS.

>> Sanchez: ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

THE OVERALL STUDY WAS MASSIVE, OVER 20,000 RESPONDENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE HAD A NEW MEXICO OVER SAMPLE, I THINK 2,050 SOME ODD NEW MEXICANS PARTICIPATED AND WE FOCUSED IDENTIFYING AT THAT POINT HOW MANY FOLKS HAVE BEEN VACCINATED, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OBSTACLES OR BARRIERS TO VACCINATION FOR DIVERSE COMMUNITIES AND WHAT MESSAGES COULD BE PAIRED WITH MESSENGERS TO INCREASE UPTAKE.

FORTUNATELY WE HAD A SAMPLE SPECIFIC TO NEW MEXICO OF YOUNG ADULTS THAT INCLUDED COLLEGE STUDENTS.

SO HOPEFULLY WE ARE THINKING OUR DATA CAN HELP INFORM THE EFFORTS OF UNM AND OTHER HIGHER ED INSTITUTIONS.

>> Gene: WAS THERE ANY ONE SOLID THREAD OF THOUGHT THAT YOU UNCOVERED IN THIS STUDY THAT SAID THIS IS WHY FOLKS ARE REFUSING TO GET VACCINATED?

>> Sanchez: I'LL TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE YOUNG ADULTS THAT IN OUR SURVEY IS 29 YEAR OLDS.

IT WAS A MIXTURE OF BOTH LACK OF BASIC INFORMATION.

YOUNG ADULTS IN OUR SURVEY SAMPLE WERE MUCH MORE LIKELY THAN YOUNGER SEGMENTS TO IDENTIFY THEY DIDN'T KNOW ALL THE DETAILS ABOUT HOW TO GO ABOUT GETTING VACCINATED.

THEY INDICATED ONE OF THE BARRIERS WAS COST AND THEY MIGHT BE UNEMPLOYED.

WE KNOW HERE IN NEW MEXICO THAT DOESN'T MATTER, RIGHT.

SO IT IS AN INDICATOR TO US THAT JUST BASIC INFORMATION THAT ITS FREE AND OPEN TO EVERYBODY, COULD REALLY HELP, PARTICULARLY THOSE YOUNG ADULTS AND COLLEGE STUDENTS TO GET VACCINATED.

THE BEST OUTCOME FROM OUR SURVEY IS WE TESTED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT INCENTIVES AND POSED THOSE AT LOW AMOUNTS, 25 BUCKS ALL THE WAY TO 500 AND, FORTUNATELY, I THINK, FOR THE UNIVERSITY, YOUNG ADULTS AND COLLEGE STUDENTS WERE MORE LIKELY THAN THE OLDER SEGMENTS OF THE POPULATION TO SAY, YES, EVEN A SMALL INCENTIVE AS SMALL AS $25 TO 100 BUCKS SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES THEIR LIKELIHOOD OF GETTING VACCINATED.

>> Gene: SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED EARLIER IS THAT IT IS IMPORTANT HOW THESE THINGS ARE SEEN INSIDE VARIOUS DISPARATE COMMUNITIES.

LET'S TAKE THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY FIRST.

THERE WAS A FOCUS THERE IN THE STUDY THAT WAS INTERESTING TO KIND OF SEE THIS AS WELL, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT IS WELL DOCUMENTED THE HESITANCY IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY FOR THESE THINGS.

WHAT WAS YOUR RESEARCH TELLING YOU IN THAT REGARD?

>> Sanchez: WHAT REALLY STOOD OUT FOR US WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE BLACK POPULATION WAS THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON PARTICULAR BRAND OF VACCINATION.

OUR COLLEAGUES AT THE AARC POINTED OUT THAT PART OF THIS IS ONGOING CHALLENGES WITH JOHNSON AND JOHNSON AS IT RELATES TO TALCUM POWDER AND OTHER THINGS AND DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

IT WAS ALREADY A LACK OF TRUST IN THAT BRAND AND THAT IS FILTERING OVER IN THINKING ABOUT THE VACCINES AND OTHER PIECES OF THE PUZZLE, WE ASKED ABOUT DISCRIMINATION EXPERIENCES THAT ALL SURVEY RESPONDED TO CROSS RACIAL GROUPS THAT ADDED, PARTICULARLY WITH THE MEDICAL INDUSTRY OR THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

BOTH THE AFRICAN AMERICAN AND NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY WERE MORE LIKELY THAN OTHER RACIAL ETHNIC GROUPS TO SAY THEY EXPERIENCED UNFAIR TREATMENT WITHIN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND THAT HAS IMPLICATIONS FOR TRUSTING THE VACCINES.

>> Gene: DO SOME OF THE SAME THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED APPLY TO NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATION AS WELL, ON THAT HESITANCY PART?

>> Sanchez: ABSOLUTELY.

THE UPSIDE IS NATIVE AMERICANS HERE IN NEW MEXICO ARE AMONG THE LEADERS IN TERMS OF EARLY VACCINATION.

THAT IS A DIRECT CREDIT TO EVERYTHING OUR TRIBES AND PUEBLOS HAVE BEEN DOING TO TRY TO MAKE VACCINATIONS READILY AVAILABLE TO THE COMMUNITY.

THAT IS THE UPSIDE.

THE DOWNSIDE IS ONCE YOU LOOK AT FOLKS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED YET, NATIVE AMERICANS HAVE SOME OF THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF HESITANCY.

IT IS LACK OF TRUST FROM BOTH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, STATE GOVERNMENT, HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY IS A MAJOR FACTORY, FOR NATIVE AMERICANS AND FOR GOOD REASON.

ANOTHER INTERESTING TREND I WAS LOOKING AT EARLY THIS MORNING WITHIN OUR DATA IS FOR NATIVE AMERICANS, PARTICULARLY THOSE WHO HAVE UNDERLYING CONDITIONS OR WHO ARE OBESE OR PERCEIVED THEY ARE, THERE IS A LARGE HESITANCY TO GET THE VACCINATION BECAUSE THEY ARE HEARING, AND THIS WAS WIDESPREAD FROM NATIONAL HEALTH EXPERTS, THAT FOLKS WHO DO HAVE THINGS LIKE DIABETES OR WHO HAVE BEEN TOLD THEY ARE OBESE ARE GOING TO HAVE A GREATER LIKELIHOOD OF HAVING COMPLICATIONS IF THERE ARE ANY.

SOME OF THIS IS UNDERLYING INEQUALITIES THAT FACE OUR COMMUNITIES AS IT RELATES TO HEALTHCARE AND ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE ARE FEEDING INTO SOME, LET'S BE HONEST, SOME GOOD RESERVATIONS.

>> Gene: AND THE HISPANIC COMMUNITIES PARTICULARLY, ANY HESITATION THERE THAT IS PARTICULAR TO THIS POPULATION?

>> Sanchez: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS NOT UNIQUE TO HISPANICS BUT STICKS OUT IN THE DATA AND IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT I HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM NONPROFITS ON THE GROUND IS THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT CONCERN IN, PARTICULARLY IN THIS ECONOMIC CLIMATE, WHERE A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE LOST JOBS ARE JUST STARTING BACK TO FINDING A JOB, THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN THAT IF I GET THE VACCINE, I AM HEARING FROM FOLKS I MIGHT BE OUT OF WORK FOR AS MUCH AS A WEEK.

RIGHT, BECAUSE OF THE SIDE EFFECTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE VACCINE.

THAT IS PARTICULARLY HIGH AMONG THE HISPANIC POPULATION.

AND ANOTHER ONE THAT IS LOGICAL, RIGHT?

IF I AM JUST GETTING BACK ON MY FEET, STARTING TO GENERATE SOME REVENUE WITH THE NEW JOB AND I AM CONCERNED THAT IF I HAVE TO ASK FOR TIME OFF I AM GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THAT JOB?

AGAIN, I THINK A LOT OF WHAT WE FOUND IN THE SURVEY ACTUALLY IS PRETTY RATIONAL IN THE CONTEXT OF SOME DECISIONS THAT FOLKS HAVE TO MAKE WHEN THEY THINK ABOUT PARTICULARLY GETTING THE SECOND DOSE.

>> Gene: WE ARE STILL A LONG WAY FROM THE REPUBLICAN GUBINATORIAL PRIMARY NEXT YEAR AND IT IS STILL ANYONE'S RACE BUT A RELATIVELY BIG NAME ENTERED THE CONTEST LAST WEEK.

T OR C REPRESENTATIVE REBECCA DOW SAYS SHE IS IN, AND, LAURA, THIS WAS RUMORED AND EVEN EXPECTED IN MOST CIRCLES.

HOW DOES IT CHANGE THE REPUBLICAN CONTEST, THOUGH, POTENTIALLY THE GENERAL ELECTION FOR GOVERNOR.

WHAT DO YOU SEE HERE FROM HER ANNOUNCEMENT?

>> Laura: IT IS INTERESTING, WE SEE ANOTHER FEMALE FROM SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO JUMP IN AND IT REMINDS ME OF SUSANA MARTINEZ JUMPING IN AT THIS POINT.

REBECCA DOW PROBABLY HAS A BIGGER PROFILE THAN SUSANA MARTINEZ HAD BACK THEN, WHICH IS INTERESTING TO ME.

THERE IS A POTENTIAL TO DEFINITELY GET MORE SUPPORT BEHIND HER AND I THINK TRY TO SOLIDIFY POCKETS OF SUPPORT AROUND -- NOT REALLY POCKETS, IT IS LARGELY SOLID IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO.

SO, THE OTHER FOLKS THAT ARE IN NOW, THERE IS, OF COURSE, I AM GOING TO FORGET HIS NAME, COMMISSIONER JAY BLOCK -- >> Gene: JAY BLOCK FROM SANDOVAL.

>> Laura: I WAS GOING TO SAY JEROME BUT I KNEW THAT WASN'T RIGHT.

HE IS GOING TO HAVE SOME STRONG CONNECTIONS IN THE METRO AREA BUT, OF COURSE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT STATE-WIDE CONNECTION.

I AM NOT SURE HE IS WELL-KNOWN IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO BUT THERE IS POTENTIAL TO RAISE A LOT OF MONEY.

REBECCA DOW HAS A STRONG BACKING FROM A LOT OF FOLKS FROM THE GAS SECTOR, AND OTHERS DOWN IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO.

THIS REALLY MAKES IT AN INTERESTING PRIMARY AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING IF SHE ENDS UP BEING THE NOMINEE AND YOU HAVE TWO WOMEN VYING FOR THE GUBINATORIAL RACE.

THAT COULD BE AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC.

>> Gene: I GET THE SENSE THAT MS. DOW IS THE FRONT RUNNER.

SOME POLITICOS THINK SHE IS.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT LAURA, BUT THERE WAS ALMOST AN INSTANT, WHOA, SHE IS RIGHT AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE WHEN SHE ANNOUNCED.

IS THAT YOUR SENSE AS WELL?

>> Tom: I BELIEVE THAT SHE DEFINITELY IS A FRONT RUNNER RIGHT NOW.

WHAT I AM KIND OF LOOKING AT IS WHAT ARE THE KEY MESSAGES THAT WE'LL BE HEARING THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN WHICH IS SMALL BUSINESS, SMALL BUSINESS RECOVERY, EDUCATION, INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THEN WHICH CANDIDATE IS REALLY KIND OF PLAYING INTO THAT PARTICULAR REALM.

OF THE CANDIDATES WHO HAVE DECLARED SO FAR, I THINK REBECCA DOW DEFINITELY CHECKS MORE BOXES THAN SOME OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES, NOT SAYING THE OTHERS DON'T.

I THINK SHE DOES A BETTER JOB OF IT.

AND I LIKE LAURA'S COMPARISON TO SUSANA MARTINEZ.

I DIDN'T REALLY MAKE THAT BRIDGE.

SO, I THINK THAT IS A POTENTIAL BUT I THINK IT REINFORCES WHAT HER PLACE IS IN THIS CAMPAIGN RIGHT NOW WHICH IS TEMPORARY FRONT RUNNER, BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THE OFFICIAL FILING DATE ISN'T UNTIL FEBRUARY.

THERE ARE MANY MONTHS AHEAD BEFORE ALL THIS STUFF SETTLES DOWN.

>> Laura: SIGNATURES ARE DUE ON OCTOBER ONE.

THAT IS A LOT SOONER.

>> Gene: JULIE ANN, YOU'RE IN A DEEP BLUE CITY, NOT A DEEP RED ONE.

FROM A CAMPAIGNING STANDPOINT FOR STATE-WIDE RACES IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SEEN SUCCESSFUL REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES DO TO PEEL OFF CRITICAL DEMOCRATIC VOTES IN YOUR AREA?

IS THERE A SECRET THERE FOR SANTA FE AND SANTA FE COUNTY?

>> Julie Ann: THERE ARE A LOT OF CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS AND UNAFFILIATED VOTERS, NOT JUST IN THE CITY BUT FURTHER NORTH WHERE YOU HAVE THAT SORT OF TRENCHED -- PEOPLE WHO ARE DEMOCRATS BUT WHO ALIGN WITH THE REPUBLICANS ON SOME ISSUES THAT BECOME PROMINENT IN THESE TYPES OF ELECTIONS.

AS I WAS MAKING NOTES FOR THIS SHOW THIS MORNING I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW MANY MONTHS WE HAVE AHEAD OF US WATCHING GOP CANDIDATES ON TELEVISION WITH GUNS IN THEIR HANDS AND BABIES IN THEIR ARMS, NOT AT THE SAME TIME HOPEFULLY, BUT WE ARE GOING TO SEE BOTH OF THAT BECAUSE OF THE REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM ISSUE AND BECAUSE OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT ISSUE THAT THE GOP REALLY LATCHES ON TO FOR ITS CORE MESSAGES.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT RECENTLY AND WE'LL SEE IT MORE.

IT IS INTERESTING TO HAVE ALL THESE CANDIDATES.

IN 2010 WHEN SUSANA MARTINEZ EMERGED AND WENT ON TO BEAT DIANE DENISH IN THE GENERAL ELECTRICS, THERE WERE FIVE GOP CANDIDATES THAT YEAR.

YOU MIGHT REMEMBER TOO, IN 2014 WHEN SHE IS RUNNING FOR REELECTION, THERE IS FIVE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE TRYING TO FIGHT IT OUT IN THE PRIMARY SO, WHILE IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF NAMES AND A LOT OF HEADS IN THE RACE RIGHT, NOW IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR NEW MEXICO GUBINATORIAL POLITICS AND IT IS A BIT OF A WILD CARD RIGHT NOW AT THIS STAGE.

>> Greene: I APPRECIATE THAT PERSPECTIVE, HISTORY, AS THEY SAY, ECHOS.

IT DOESN'T REPEAT, IT ECHOS.

FOR POINT OF INTEREST, JAY BLOCK WAS MENTIONED FROM SANDOVAL COUNTY, KAREN BEDONIE, NAVAJO CD-3.

TIM WALSH, RETIRED EDUCATOR AND GARY JOHNSON ADVISOR BACK THEN.

AND GREG ZANETTI WHO CAME OUT FIRST AND ANNOUNCED.

HE IS A VETERAN AND A FINANCIAL ADVISOR.

SO THE FIELD IS SORT OF IN THERE.

BUT I DO HAVE A QUESTION.

LAURA, LET ME START WITH YOU ON THIS.

I WOULD LIKE TO GET A TAKE FROM TOM AS WELL, HOW VULNERABLE IS GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM RIGHT NOW?

IS THE ANGST ABOUT HOW SHE MANAGED THE PANDEMIC GOING TO BE IMPACTFUL SO MANY MONTHS IN THE FUTURE?

>> Laura: I MEAN, I CERTAINLY THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR HER.

I THINK SHE WILL HAVE TO HAVE A STRATEGY THAT ADDRESSES THAT BUT FOCUSES ON THE SUCCESSES.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, YES, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF HEARTBURN OVER THE POLICIES THAT SHE HAD, THE CLOSURES, ESPECIALLY THE IMPACT IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES AND JUST THE BUSINESSES.

THERE IS BUSINESSES THAT STILL HAVEN'T REOPENED.

BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, WE ALSO HAVE SEEN A LOT LOWER RATES OF COVID-19 DEATHS THAN OTHER STATES AND WE HAVE A HUGE VACCINATION RATE HERE IN NEW MEXICO WHICH IS NOT THE CASE IN SOME NEIGHBORING STATES.

SHE HAS SOME SUCCESSES TO SHOW FOR THAT AS WELL.

I THINK A WELL-CRAFTED STRATEGY TO DISCUSS THAT IS GOING TO BE NECESSARY.

I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO PUT HER ON THE DEFENSIVE AND SHE HAS TO STAY POSITIVE ABOUT ALL OF HER ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR NEW MEXICO LONG-TERM.

SO, I THINK THAT SHE WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS IT, BUT I WOULDN'T CALL IT A VULNERABILITY.

I THINK THE REGISTRATION AND THE TURNOUT STILL IS WHAT IT IS.

IT IS STILL LARGELY DEMOCRAT.

INDEPENDENTS TEND TO VOTE DEMOCRAT OR HAVE IN RECENT YEARS.

AND SO IT JUST REALLY DEPENDS WHO EMERGES FROM THAT REPUBLICAN PRIMARY AND THEN HOW THEY SORT OF SQUARE OFF FOR THE GENERAL.

>> Gene: IMPORTANT POINT.

STILL ON THAT QUESTION BUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT, IF I AM REBECCA DOW THAT IS WHERE I AM GOING FIRST.

I'M TAKING ALL THE ANGST FROM THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE STATE FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND THAT IS HOW I AM LAUNCHING.

I AM GOING TO CIRCLE ALBUQUERQUE AND CIRCLE SANTA FE AND BUILD THE ANGER MOVEMENT, SO TO SPEAK, AND KEEP THAT GOING BUT IS THAT VIABLE?

CAN THAT HOLD UP ALL THESE MONTHS UNTIL ELECTION DAY COMES.

>> Tom: THERE IS THE PRIMARY STRATEGY AND THEN THERE IS THE GENERAL ELECTION STRATEGY.

PRIMARY STRATEGY FOR GREG ZANETTI RIGHT NOW FOCUSING ON MILITARY MESSAGING.

THAT WILL WORK WELL IN REPUBLICAN CIRCLES AND GETTING HIM A NOMINATION IF THAT IS WHAT THE PARTY DECIDES, BUT ON THE LARGER SCALE, THERE IS JUST NOT THAT MUCH CAPACITY SO YOU NEED A DIVERSIFICATION OF MESSAGE.

VULNERABILITIES THAT THE GOVERNOR FACES, INCLUDES CABINET TURNOVER, ALSO INCLUDES HANDLING OF THE PANDEMIC BUT THOSE ISSUES CAN ALSO BE FLIPPED TO A POSITIVE TO THOSE WHO ARE SUPPORTERS OF THE GOVERNOR IN THAT THERE ARE SOME WHO BELIEVE THAT JUST AS MUCH THAT IMPACTED NEGATIVELY, SMALL BUSINESSES, 60% OF SMALL BUSINESSES MAKING IT THROUGH THE PANDEMIC PERIOD.

SHE CAN VERY EASILY POINT TO THE NUMBER OF NEW MEXICO LIVES SAVED AND THE OVERALL RESPONSE THAT REALLY MADE NEW MEXICO HEALTHIER.

SO, TO EVERY CON, THERE IS A PRO AND SO, PROS AND CONS WILL COME INTO PLAY AND DEPENDS YOUR PERSPECTIVE OF THE CURRENT GOVERNOR.

>> Gene: JULIE ANN, TAKE A SWIPE AT THE TIME WE HAVE LEFT.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THE BIG ISSUES WILL BE.

LET'S SET ASIDE THE PANDEMIC.

TALK ABOUT THE GENERAL ELECTION, WHAT THE ISSUES WILL OR MAYBE SHOULD BE IN YOUR VIEW.

>> Julie Ann: THERE IS ONE OTHER THING TO THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT THE GOVERNOR MIGHT BRAG ON OR WHAT SHE MAY BE VULNERABLE ABOUT.

THAT HAS TO DO WITH LEGALIZATION OF CANNABIS.

CANNABIS SALES START IN THE SPRING OF '22, A FEW MONTHS BEFORE THE ELECTION.

AND I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INDEPENDENT VOTERS THAT SUPPORTED THAT LEGALIZATION EFFORT AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE ALSO GOING TO BE PEOPLE ON THE ATTACK WHO ARE KIND OF MORE CRIME AND PUNISHMENT TYPES.

SO I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE THAT KIND OF COME UP AGAIN.

SPEAKING OF CRIME AND PUNISHMENT, POLICING IS A BIG ISSUE THAT THE GOVERNOR FRANKLY HAS NOT ADDRESSED IN A MEANINGFUL WAY DURING HER TIME.

I THINK THAT THE GOP CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO HAVE AN EVEN MORE -- A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THAT THAN I THINK SOME OF WHAT THE PROGRESSIVE VOTERS WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

THERE IS NOT A GREAT DEGREE OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR POLICE IN OUR STATE WHEN THEY KILL PEOPLE.

THEIR DISCIPLINE RECORDS ARE NOT PUBLIC AND THERE IS A NUMBER OF ISSUES.

I AM HOPING THAT ISSUE, THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF PRESSURE ON THAT FRONT.

I CERTAINLY THINK WE ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION AGAIN.

I BROUGHT UP EARLIER, WE HAVE GOT THE YAZZI MARTINEZ CASE RULING WHERE THE STATE IS REALLY UNDER ORDER TO INCREASE EQUITY IN EDUCATION.

I THINK THAT IS GOING TO COME UP QUITE A BIT, ISSUES ABOUT CHILD CARE AND SUPPORT FOR INSURANCE SYSTEM AND HEALTHCARE OVERHAUL.

I THINK YOU'LL REMEMBER THAT GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM HAS A BIG BACKGROUND IN HEALTH AND IN HUMAN SERVICES AND I THINK THAT IS ALSO LIKELY TO COME UP QUITE A BIT.

>> Gene: WE'LL SEE, AS THEY SAY.

PLENTY MORE TIME TO TALK ABOUT THE RACE BUT HAVE TO STOP FOR NOW.

THIS GROUP IS BACK FOR ONE FINAL TOPIC, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN TOUGH ON CRIME POLICIES RUN UP AGAINST REALITIES OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM?

THIS BEING NEW MEXICO, MOST OF US HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH DEAD ZONES FOR CELL OR INTERNET SERVICE.

FOR MOST OF US IT IS JUST USUALLY A HASSLE BUT AS PART OF SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO'S HITTING HOME SERIES ABOUT THE LOCAL IMPACT OF COVID-19, A NAVAJO JOURNALIST WENT HOME TO FIND OUT HOW THOSE HASSLES TURNED INTO MAJOR HURDLES WHEN IT COMES TO GOING TO SCHOOL.

THE ARTICLE IS A TERRIFIC READ.

WE'LL LINK TO IT ONLINE AND IN THE MEANTIME, HERE IS SENIOR PRODUCER MATT GRUBS WITH MORE.

>> Matt: SUNNIE CLAHCHISCHILIGI, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND TALKING ABOUT YOUR WORK AT SEARCHLIGHT.

THIS IS A PRETTY AMAZING PIECE.

TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE AFTER WHEN YOU SET OUT TO WRITE IT.

>> Clahchischiligi: I THINK THAT IT WASN'T NECESSARILY SOMETHING I WOULD CALL A NEWS STORY.

I KNOW IT HAS BEEN TOUCHED UPON BY MANY OUTLETS BUT REALLY I THINK IT IS THE FACT THAT IT WAS JUST THAT, TOUCHED UPON.

WE HAD LEARNED THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, THE PANDEMIC YEAR, THAT STUDENTS WERE FACING A LOT OF STRUGGLES INCLUDING INTERNET ACCESS, INTERNET CONNECTIVITY, CELLULAR CONNECTIVITY, LACK OF TECHNOLOGY, ALL THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

BUT I WANTED TO GIVE PEOPLE A GLIMPSE OF WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT LOOK LIKE FOR SOMEONE ON THE NAVAJO NATION WITH VERY LITTLE OR NONE INTERNET ACCESS.

AND THEN ALSO THE OTHER CHALLENGES OF BEING A K THROUGH 12 STUDENT ON THE RESERVATION DURING THE TIME OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> Matt: OF COURSE.

THE STUDENT YOU KEYED IN ON TO START THE STORY, EVAN ALLEN, HOW DID YOU COME ACROSS EVAN'S STORY AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO SORT OF FIND OUT WHAT HIS EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCES WERE LIKE THROUGH THE PAST YEAR.

>> Clahchischiligi: A BIG PART OF IT STARTED WITH A LOT OF THE TALK THAT WAS HAPPENING ABOUT UNACCOUNTED FOR KIDS OR STUDENTS IN NEW MEXICO.

THERE WAS A LOT OF THAT TALK HAPPENING WITHIN LOCAL MEDIA OUTLETS BUT ALSO JUST, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY AMONG SCHOOLS ESPECIALLY SINCE THAT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT PART FOR PEOPLE DURING THE PANDEMIC WAS HOW TO HANDLE SCHOOLS AND GET STUDENTS THE EDUCATION THEY NEED AND DESERVE.

SO, I WAS REALLY JUST LOOKING FOR UNACCOUNTED FOR STUDENTS ON THE RESERVATION.

I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT THOSE UNACCOUNTED FOR STUDENTS WERE DOING.

WHERE WERE THEY AND WHAT WERE THEY DOING AND TO KIND OF OCCUPY THEIR TIME, IF THEY WERE EITHER NOT IN SCHOOL ANYMORE OR JUST KIND OF DROPPED OFF, WHY THEY DROPPED OFF.

SO, I THINK THAT HAS REALLY BEEN THE FOUNDATION FOR THE INTEREST IN THIS STORY AND, FOR EVAN, I THINK THAT IT WORKED OUT IN THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, I AM FROM THE TEEC NOS POS COMMUNITY AS WELL, WHICH YOU LEARNED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IN THE STORY.

AND IT JUST SO HAPPENED THAT HE WENT TO SCHOOL IN NEW MEXICO, LIVED IN TEEC NOS POS IN ARIZONA AT THE TIME, WHICH ACTUALLY WAS REALLY NICE BECAUSE IT PRESENTED ANOTHER ISSUE THAT PEOPLE OFTEN FORGET ABOUT, THAT IT IS A VERY NORMAL THING FOR STUDENTS TO GO TO SCHOOL IN ANOTHER STATE AND LIVE IN ANOTHER STATE AT THAT LEVEL.

I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF SURPRISING FOR SOME PEOPLE BUT, YES, IT WAS JUST A BLESSING TO BE ABLE TO FIND HIM BECAUSE THESE STUDENTS ARE REALLY HARD TO FIND AND TO BE ABLE TO HAVE HIM SHARE HIS STORY.

I OFTEN SAY HE IS VERY BRAVE BECAUSE IT DOES TAKE A LOT TO ALLOW YOURSELF TO OPEN UP AND SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES.

>> Matt: ESPECIALLY AT THAT AGE, HE TALKED ABOUT BEING PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY EXHAUSTED AND TOOK A GREAT QUOTE FROM HIM AND IT TOOK A TOLL ON HIS FAMILY TOO.

>> Clahchischiligi: ABSOLUTELY.

KIDS ARE KIDS AND A LOT OF TIMES THEY DON'T SHARE THEIR FEELINGS ESPECIALLY AT THAT AGE, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE GOING THROUGH THINGS, THEY ARE GROWING UP AND THEY DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO SHARE A WHOLE LOT WITH PARENTAL FIGURES, BUT HE WAS KIND OF THE SAME.

HE WASN'T SHARING THE TROUBLES THAT HE WAS HAVING WITH INTERNET CONNECTIVITY AND SO THERE -- WHAT IS NOT IN THE STORY, HIS MOM TELLS ME ABOUT HOW SHE THOUGHT HE WAS JUST GOING TO THE HILL TO MESS AROUND.

SHE DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS GOING BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO GET THINGS DONE FOR SCHOOL.

AND AT ONE POINT SHE FINALLY REALIZED WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO AND EVEN SHE FELT GUILTY BECAUSE SHE WASN'T AWARE OF HIS CIRCUMSTANCES BECAUSE HE HADN'T SHARED A WHOLE LOT.

SHE WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION, SINCE SHE DIDN'T HEAR FROM HIM, IT IS FINE, YOU KNOW.

BUT, YEAH, IT DEFINITELY TOOK A TOLL BECAUSE I SAT WITH HER IN THE KITCHEN A NUMBER OF TIMES TALKING ABOUT HOW DID IT MAKE HER FEEL TO SIT AND WATCH HIM GO THROUGH WHAT HE WAS GOING THROUGH EVERYDAY AND SHE TALKED ABOUT HOW IT JUST WAS SO FRUSTRATING AND SHE FELT SO HELPLESS BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT A LOT THAT SHE COULD DO.

SHE TRIED CALLING THE SCHOOL.

SHE TRIED GETTING RESOURCES.

SHE DUG DEEP TO GET HIM HIS OWN HOTSPOT, THINGS LIKE THAT, SO IT DEFINITELY TOOK A TOLL ON ALL OF THEM.

>> Matt: THE AMOUNT OF DETAIL AND THE FACT YOU WERE UP THERE MORE THAN ONCE COMES THROUGH IN THE PIECE.

THE IDEA THAT THIS HIGH SCHOOL KID, YOU KNOW, HAD TO DRIVE TO THE TOP OF THE HILL TO GET ENOUGH CELL SERVICE TO ENABLE HIM TO HAVE A WIFI OR A HOT SPOT, A CELL HOT SPOT, I MEAN, AND THEN SIT THERE FOR SOMETIMES 10 HOURS TO GO THROUGH SCHOOL, SOUNDS LIKE BAND PRACTICE, TOO, MAYBE, AND THEN TO DO HOMEWORK.

THAT IS JUST ASTOUNDING TO ME.

>> Clahchischiligi: IT IS AND I DON'T THINK WE WILL KNOW WHAT IT IS REALLY LIKE UNLESS WE WERE TO DO IT OURSELVES.

IT WAS -- SURE IT WAS ONE THING FOR HIM TO RUN THROUGH IT WITH ME AND EXPLAIN IT TO ME AND TELL ME WHAT HE WAS GOING THROUGH, BUT IT IS ANOTHER TO BE THAT PERSON IN THAT POSITION BECAUSE EVERYDAY WASN'T THE SAME BECAUSE THE WEATHER CHANGES, AS WAS MENTIONED IN THE STORY.

CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE.

YOU MIGHT HAVE TECHNOLOGY TROUBLE.

YOU MIGHT HAVE ANIMALS ROAMING AROUND YOUR VEHICLE.

IT IS HIGH DESERT THERE, SO, THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN.

SO IT WAS MORE THAN JUST HIM GOING TO SCHOOL AND DOING THE THINGS THAT YOU WOULD DO IN SCHOOL.

IT WAS ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAKE SURE YOU STAY IN SCHOOL, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.

SO, THERE WAS JUST SO MANY MORE FACTORS.

IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT OKAY I NEED DO MY HOMEWORK, I NEED TO DO SCHOOL WORK.

IT WAS WORRYING ABOUT THINGS THAT WE OFTEN WORRY ABOUT AS ADULTS OR WE TAKE FOR GRANTED, EVERYDAY ACCESSIBILITY THINGS.

ONE THING MENTIONED IN THE STORY IS HIS MOTHER FELT REALLY HEART SICK ABOUT THE FACT THAT OTHER STUDENTS HAD A LOT OF CONVENIENCES AND THAT COULD BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS BEING IN A HOUSE DOING YOUR HOMEWORK.

THAT IS A CONVENIENCE THAT HE DID NOT NECESSARILY HAVE.

SO, I MEAN, CAN YOU IMAGINE PLAYING YOUR INSTRUMENT IN THE BACK OF A TRUCK WHILE IT IS SNOWING OUTSIDE OR IT IS RAINING OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT IS THAT THE CASE IS.

SO, YEAH, IT IS EVERY ASPECT OF WHAT HE HAS GONE THROUGH THROUGHOUT THE SCHOOL YEAR WORKING AND DOING HOMEWORK FROM WHERE HE WAS AT IS JUST INCREDIBLE, NOTHING SHORT OF INCREDIBLE.

>> Matt: SURE.

HARD NOT TO GET CHOKED UP THINKING ABOUT EVERYTHING HE WENT THROUGH.

ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKED ABOUT THE STORY WAS, OF COURSE, WASN'T JUST EVAN.

YOU POINT OUT THAT IT IS AN UNDERESTIMATE LIKELY BUT MORE THAN 23,000 NATIVE STUDENTS ARE WITHOUT RELIABLE INTERNET OR CELLULAR HOT SPOT ACCESS.

I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT THAT DOES TO THE EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE.

WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT?

>> Clahchischiligi: IT WAS DISHEARTENING BECAUSE I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT WAS LIKE FOR STUDENTS WHO PERHAPS JUST DROP OUT OR THAT WERE UNACCOUNTED FOR.

THAT IS HONESTLY HOW THE STORY STARTED.

IT WAS, I THINK NOT LONG AGO, THE STATE OR LOCAL OUTLETS WERE TALKING ABOUT THESE UNACCOUNTED FOR CHILDREN OR STUDENTS AND I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE ON THE NAVAJO NATION.

AND THE BIGGER QUESTION WAS WHERE ARE THEY AND WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

SO, WHAT I FOUND WAS THROUGH EVAN, HE IS QUOTED AS SAYING HE KNEW OF CLASSMATES WHO SIMPLY STOPPED COMING TO CLASS.

HE KNEW OF SOME THAT WHEN THE SEMESTER CAME, THEY DECIDED NOT TO SIGN UP.

HE KNEW OF SOME THAT STAYED HOME AND WATCHED TV.

AND THEN WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE END OF THE EDUCATION SYSTEM WHO ARE WELL AWARE OF THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, ARE WELL AWARE THAT STUDENTS JUST CAN'T DO IT.

I MEAN, I HAD ONE SOURCE TELL ME THAT PARENTS WERE JUST SO FRUSTRATED THAT THEY WERE ALSO UP IN ARMS AND SOMETIMES WOULD JUST SAY, OKAY, WELL, I AM JUST GOING TO TAKE MY KID OUT BECAUSE THIS IS TOO MUCH, I CAN'T DO THIS.

SO, THERE IS STILL NOT A DEFINITE OF WHERE EXACTLY THESE STUDENTS WENT AND WHAT THEY WERE DOING, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT FROM THE OTHER FAMILY MENTIONED IN THE STORY, THE MARIANOS, THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW -- WHICH WASN'T IN THE STORY -- BUT HOW WHEN THEIR KIDS WEREN'T GIVEN THE TECHNOLOGY, THEY JUST HAD THEIR KIDS DO HOUSEWORK OR WORK ON PROJECTS UNTIL THEY GOT THAT.

AND SO I KIND OF IMAGINE THAT IS WHAT SOME OF THOSE KIDS WERE DOING WHO WERE AT HOME, BUT I AM PRETTY CERTAIN A LOT OF THEM WERE NOT VERY PRODUCTIVE AND KIND OF DOING THINGS THAT THEY WOULD TYPICALLY DO ON A WEEKEND OR SOMETHING.

>> Matt: IT STRIKES ME THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, SAY, YOU'RE IN A HOME THAT HAS RELIABLE HIGH SPEED INTERNET, YOU CAN LEARN QUITE EFFECTIVELY FOR 40 MINUTES.

AND I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THERE ARE OTHER STUDENTS OUT THERE IN OTHER FAMILIES WHO ARE ALSO DOING PROJECTS AROUND THE HOUSE AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT YOU JUST KIND OF NORMALLY DO DURING THE DAY IF YOU'RE AT HOME, BUT THE DIFFERENCE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY ACCESS, VERSUS THAT HIGH SPEED ACCESS, IS MONUMENTAL.

HOW DID THIS FALL INTO THE FRAMEWORK OF THE YAZZI MARTINEZ DECISION WHICH RIDES ABOVE SO MUCH OF EDUCATION IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Clahchischiligi: GOING TO SCHOOL ON THE RESERVATION IS A VERY TOUGH THING IN ITSELF.

WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE THESE TECHNOLOGY ISSUES OR LACK OF BROADBAND OR THINGS LIKE THAT, THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE EVEN DEEPER THAN THAT.

I MEAN, IN THE STORY IT TALKS ABOUT LACK OF ELECTRICITY.

I MEAN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW INFRASTRUCTURE ALSO AFFECTS THIS OR THE LACK THEREOF.

SO, I THINK THAT IS A BIG PART OF THE -- I GUESS, IT IS A BIG PART OF WHAT MAKES THAT UNIQUE AND KIND OF WHAT MAKES GOING TO SCHOOL ON THE RESERVATION UNIQUE OR BEING A STUDENT WHO LIVES ON THE RESERVATION AND GOES TO SCHOOL OFF OF IT.

I THINK I LEARNED A LOT OF THAT JUST FOCUSING ON, IN THE STORY I MENTIONED CENTRAL CONSOLIDATED SCHOOL DISTRICT.

IT IS ONE OF THE FEW, I THINK, ONE OF THE FEW SCHOOLS THAT OPERATES VERY UNIQUELY IN THE SENSE THAT IT IS NOT FULLY ON THE RESERVATION.

SOME SCHOOLS ARE ON AND SOME ARE OFF.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF, I GUESS, GUIDANCE THEY HAVE TO GET, NOT JUST FROM THE STATE BUT ALSO FROM THE TRIBE BUT ALSO FROM THE PARENTS THEMSELVES AND SO IT CAN BE REALLY TRICKY AT TIMES.

I THINK THAT THE YAZZI MARTINEZ KIND OF GETS THINGS STARTED INTO LOOKING AT WHERE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT AFFECT THE OVERALL EDUCATION OF NAVAJO STUDENTS BUT, THEN, WHEN YOU LOOK DEEPER AND A LITTLE BIT BEYOND EDUCATION AT THE DEEPER PROBLEMS THAT EXIST, YOU SEE KIND OF WORLD PROBLEMS, IF YOU WILL, NATION PROBLEMS WITHIN THE NAVAJO NATION THAT WE'RE OBVIOUSLY CONSTANTLY HEARING ABOUT THROUGH EVERY STORY THAT COMES OUT OF THE NAVAJO NATION.

MORE RECENTLY WITHIN THE LAST YEAR, THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

I THINK THAT YAZZI MARTINEZ IS GREAT IN THE SENSE THAT IT PRESENTS SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN LONG OVERLOOKED.

>> Matt: DID ANYONE USE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL OR SCHOOL LEVEL SAY IT IS ROUGH BUT NOW THAT WE HAVE YAZZI MARTINEZ, THINGS ARE BETTER OR NOT THERE YET?

>> Clahchischiligi: IT IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF WORK.

TAKE FOR EXAMPLE, IMPACT AID.

IMPACT AID IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT, BUT IT IS FEDERAL AID THAT A LOT OF THESE STUDENTS -- A LOT OF SCHOOLS GET THAT HAVE A NATIVE POPULATION.

FOR YEARS, YEARS AND YEARS, A LOT OF THESE SCHOOLS WHICH HAVE A HIGH NATIVE POPULATION WERE MISSING OUT ON SOME OF THIS MONEY THAT WAS BEING TAKEN OUT BY THE STATE.

SO A LOT OF THEM SPOKE ABOUT THAT RATHER BECAUSE THEY ALL FELT THAT IT WOULD HAVE REALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE HAD THEY HAD THAT MONEY THEY HAD GOTTEN FROM IMPACT AID.

I HONESTLY DIDN'T HAVE SOMEONE TALK TO ME ABOUT YAZZI MARTINEZ.

I BROUGHT THAT INTO THE STORY ON MY OWN WHILE LOOKING FOR NUMBERS, BUT THAT IS WHERE THAT CASE DEFINITELY HELPED WITH GIVING US A SENSE OF HOW BIG IS THIS PROBLEM THAT WE ARE MENTIONING IN THIS STORY AND THAT IS HELPING US SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH STUDENTS ON THE RESERVATION.

>> Matt: CERTAINLY.

IF I HAVE IT RIGHT, IMPACT AID, FOR FOLKS WHO DON'T KNOW, IS A FEDERAL PROGRAM THAT IS DESIGNED TO REPLACE WHAT DISTRICTS WOULD GET IN PROPERTY TAX INCOME OR FUNDING BECAUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THERE IS A LOT FEDERAL LANDS OR TRIBAL LAND, THEY ARE NOT GETTING TAXES BUT THE STATE WAS ACTUALLY COUNTING IT TOWARDS WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN ALREADY AND ALL THAT IS CHANGING BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT A DIFFERENCE IT WOULD HAVE MADE IF THESE DISTRICTS WOULD HAVE HAD 10, 15, 20 YEARS OF THAT MONEY BEING IN THEIR GRASP.

>> Clahchischiligi: I HAD MR. MONTOYA, WE MENTIONED, FROM THE CENTRAL CONSOLIDATED SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD PRESIDENT, MENTIONED TO ME, HE HAS BEEN -- THANKFUL TO HIM FOR EXPLAINING TO ME WHAT ALL OF THAT WAS BECAUSE IT CAN BE VERY COMPLICATED.

I ASKED HIM JUST FLAT OUT, DO YOU THINK -- HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD HAVE MADE HAD YOU HAD THAT?

COULD IT HAVE REALLY OFFSET WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF LACK OF FUNDING.

HE SAID, OH, ABSOLUTELY, WE WOULD HAVE HAD EVERYTHING WE NEEDED FOR EVERY STUDENT THAT WE HAD.

SO, I THINK THAT DEFINITELY SHOWS THE BIG IMPACT THAT IT COULD HAVE MADE.

>> Matt: SUNNIE, IT'S A GREAT READ AND WE'LL MAKE SURE TO POST A LINK.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR TIME.

>> Clahchischiligi: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Gene: REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS OFTEN LIKE TO TAKE AND CULTIVATE A TOUGH ON CRIME IMAGE.

THAT IS CERTAINLY TRUE IN LEGISLATURE AND ALMOST A GUARANTEE WHEN IT COMES TO CANDIDATES FOR DISTRICT ATTORNEY BUT THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE TO THAT POLICY.

IN A RECENT ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL ARTICLE HIGHLIGHTED 12TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT WHERE PUBLIC DEFENDERS SAY THEY ARE BURIED BY NEARLY 300 FELONY CASES SCHEDULED FOR A FOUR-WEEK PERIOD STARTING LATER THIS MONTH.

THE DA DOWN THERE, ALAMOGORDO AND RUIDOSO, SAYS HIS PROSECUTORS HAVE TO PREPARE FOR THOSE CASES TOO AND THE CHIEF JUDGE SAYS MOST OF THOSE TRIALS WON'T ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE, BUT LAURA, KIND OF A NATURAL PLACE TO START.

DO THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS HAVE A POINT ABOUT BEING ABLE TO PREPARE AN EFFECTIVE DEFENSE.

STARTING WITH BASICS OF LAW.

>> Laura: THEY HAVE A VALID POINT.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE 24 TRIALS OR 24 DIFFERENT HEARINGS IN A DAY.

SO, IT IS UNCLEAR WHICH ONES OF THOSE WOULD BE DISMISSED OR POSTPONED AND WHICH ONES WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH TRIAL.

I MEAN THERE IS JUST NO WAY TO SORT OF KNOW THAT FROM A PREPARATION STANDPOINT.

SO ONE OF THE POINTS THEY BRING UP, THEY HAVE TO BE PREPARED FOR EVERY TRIAL, WHICH MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVIDE AN ADEQUATE DEFENSE.

ON THE FLIP SIDE, THE PROSECUTOR IS ALSO IN A SIMILAR SITUATION.

THAT IS A LOT OF COORDINATING POTENTIAL WITNESSES, TALKING ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT, OTHER EYE WITNESSES, WHOEVER IS PART OF THE DOCKET.

SOMEBODY SAID IT WAS A CIRCUS LIKE ATMOSPHERE.

I CAN IMAGINE THAT BECAUSE YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THE LEVEL OF RESOURCES AND THESE ARE AREAS, I HAVE ACTUALLY HAD CASES DOWN THERE BEFORE, NOT IN CRIMINAL, BUT IN CIVIL CASES WHEN I WAS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE.

AND THEY ARE SMALL COURTROOMS, EVERYBODY PRETTY MUCH KNOWS EVERYBODY IN TERMS OF THE STAFF AND IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT THEM TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS ADEQUATELY.

I THINK IT IS A CRISIS LIKE SITUATION AND NOT A UNIQUE ONE TO THE 12TH CIRCUIT WHICH IS ALAMOGORDO AND RUIDOSO BUT COULD OCCUR IN A LOT OF AREAS AROUND THE STATE.

>> Gene: JULIE ANN, LAURA JUST MENTIONED NIGHTMARE SCENARIO.

REPORTING THAT PEOPLE ARE WAITING IN CARS EACH DAY TO FIND OUT IF THEY'LL BE NEEDED TO BE A JUROR OR WITNESS.

THAT IS NOT TENABLE.

IT IS NOT IDEAL BUT DOES IT SEEM LIKE PROSECUTORS ARE OVERCHARGING?

IS THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM?

>> Julie Ann: THAT IS CERTAINLY A POINT THAT THE CHIEF PUBLIC DEFENDER RAISED WITH RESPECT TO THIS 12TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT.

THIS IS IN THAT CRIME AND PUNISHMENT PART OF THE STATE IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO AND OTERO AND LINCOLN COUNTIES, AND I THINK THAT THAT ARGUMENT WITHOUT REALLY LOOKING AT THE DATA AND THE KIND OF CASES THAT ARE BEING PRESENTED IT IS REALLY HARD TO MAKE AN OUTSIDE JUDGMENT OF THAT, BUT DEFINITELY IN THAT JOURNAL STORY, THE PROSECUTOR THERE, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, IS NOT AN APOLOGIST FOR THAT.

HE SAYS, LIKE, THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT.

THEY WANT ME TO THROW THE BOOK AT THESE SUSPECTED ALLEGED CRIMINALS AND THEY DON'T WANT ME MAKING PLEA DEALS.

I THINK IT IS INTERESTING, THIS IS NOT UNIVERSALLY THE WAY THAT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS FEEL.

SANTA FE ELECTED MARY CARMACK ALTWIES HERE.

THE DATA IS KIND OF NOT THERE YET BECAUSE IT IS NEW.

BUT OUR DISTRICT ATTORNEY UP HERE, RIO ARRIBA, LOS ALAMOS, SANTA FE COUNTY HAS SAID LET'S KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF THE COURT SYSTEM.

LET'S DIVERT PEOPLE WHO ARE FACING SMALL CHARGES THAT ARE RELATED TO DRUGS AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH.

I THINK THAT HER PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THAT IS REALLY GOING TO THE -- WE'LL SEE IF THAT CHANGES THINGS.

THAT IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THE GUY IN THE 12TH IS SAYING.

>> Gene: ISN'T THAT INTERESTING.

>> Laura: IT IS NOT SURPRISING, YOU KNOW, YOU GET ELECTED FROM A CERTAIN AREA.

SANTA FE IS WHAT IT IS.

THAT ENTIRE AREA IS PRETTY LIBERAL OR, I MEAN, I AM NOT SAYING THAT IN A BAD WAY, BUT THEY ARE PROGRESSIVES, RIGHT?

THEY ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT ON CRIME THAN SOME OF THESE RURAL AREAS.

SO, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS, UNFORTUNATELY BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE WHERE THEY GET ELECTED, THEY ARE GOING TO REFLECT WHAT ELECTORS ARE WANTING FROM THEM OR ELSE NOT ELECTED AGAIN, RIGHT?

YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE TOUGH ON CRIME ON THE ONE HAND AND ON THE OTHER HAND ARE MESSAGING THE WAY SANTA FE IS.

HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE WE SEE A HYBRID BUT ULTIMATELY PEOPLE WANT TO SEE TOUGH ON CRIME MORE SO PROBABLY THAN SANTA FE.

THIS REFLECTS THE DIVERSITY OF OUR STATE AND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR SOME OF THESE PROSECUTORS TO SEE WHERE THAT FINE LINE IS, RIGHT, WHERE YOU NEED TO DO YOUR JOB BUT YOU ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE REFLECTING WHATEVER YOUR ELECTORS WANT FROM YOU.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS.

TOM, THE DA, SCOTT KEY, UNAPOLOGETICALLY SAID, NOBODY PLEADS GUILTY TO SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T DO.

IT IS KIND OF RIDICULOUS.

THAT IS JUST WRONG.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT TIME AGAIN FOR ALL KINDS OF REASONS.

IN THIS SITUATION DOES THE CASE LOAD MEAN THERE IS A NATURAL TENDENCY TO CONSIDER, WHAT JULIE MENTIONED EARLIER, A PLEA DEAL, DOESN'T IT?

DO ALL ROADS NOT LEAD TO MORE PLEA DEALS HERE?

>> Tom: MOST DEFINITELY.

THE NUMBERS ARE STAGGERING AND IT IS GREAT TO SEE OLLIE UYTTEBROUCK, WITH THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, GETTING SOME OF THIS IN-DEPTH TYPE OF COVERAGE, BUT, 276 FELONY JURY TRIALS IN A FOUR-WEEK PERIOD.

THAT IS MIND BOGGLING.

WHAT THAT TELLS ME IS THERE ARE A LOT OF PLEA DEALS.

MATT CHAVEZ, WHEN HE SAID THAT DO INNOCENT PEOPLE GET CONVICTED, ABSOLUTELY.

THAT IS CONCERNING BECAUSE YOU HAVE FOLKS WHO ARE -- WERE ARRESTED FOR A REASON OR CITED FOR A REASON AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A CHANCE TO REALLY DEFEND THEMSELVES THE WAY THEY WANT TO IN COURT, AND AS A RESULT, YOU HAVE FOLKS WHO WILL PLEA BARGAIN OUT FOR A LESSER SENTENCE JUST TO GET ON WITH THEIR LIFE.

THAT I THINK IS NOT A GOOD REFLECTION OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM AT ALL.

>> Gene: NO DOUBT.

>> Julie Ann: IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE ROOT OF THIS IS ABOUT FULLY FUNDING THE JUDICIARY.

SPEEDY TRIALS ARE A REAL THING THAT PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO EXPECT UNDER THE CONSTITUTION AND WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO CRAM THE PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE INTO ADEQUATELY DEFENDING -- TRYING TO CRAM ALL THIS STUFF IN AND THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY, YOU KNOW, THAT IS REALLY THE PROBLEM HERE.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT OUR GOVERNMENT CAN ACT ON.

>> Gene: LAURA, LET ME FOLLOW UP ON THAT.

IT IS A GOOD POINT.

I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS BUT FOR THE FOLKS WATCHING IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN FELONY ARRAIGNMENTS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE OR BUSIER COURT.

IT IS QUITE SOMETHING.

THE WORD CIRCUS CAME UP WITH ATTORNEYS ON BOTH SIDES WHEELING STACKS AND BOXES OF CASE FILES IN AND OUT, SOMETIMES ONLY GIVEN BRIEFEST LOOK TO THOSE THINGS.

ARE WE PUSHING TOO MUCH TO THE COURT, SHOULD WE JUST EXPECT THIS IS THE NATURAL RESULT OF PUSHING ALL THIS TO THE COURTROOM?

>> Laura: WELL, I MEAN, THERE IS A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH OUR SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, THE BACKLOG IN COURT IS ONE OF THEM.

THERE IS JUST AN INADEQUACY OF RESOURCES ACROSS THE BOARD.

SO, YOU HAVE FROM THE OFFICERS AND ARRESTING AGENCIES, TO PROCESSING AT THE JAILS, TO THE ACTUAL COURT STAFF, JUDGES, EVERYBODY IS OVERWHELMED AND THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS, IN PARTICULAR, ARE ALSO EXTREMELY UNDERSTAFFED.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO KEEP PEOPLE EMPLOYED IN THOSE POSITIONS TOO BECAUSE THERE IS SUCH HIGH BURNOUT BECAUSE OF THIS KIND OF PROCESS.

YOU END UP HAVING FOLKS WHO ARE IN THOSE JOBS THAT ARE NOT STAYING VERY LONG.

THEY DEVELOP AN EXPERTISE AND GO TO GREENER PASTURES ELSEWHERE.

IT IS A HUGE PROBLEM AND ONE THAT I THINK JULIE BRINGS UP AN IMPORTANT POINT.

WE COULD ADDRESS THIS AND THERE SHOULD BE MORE ATTENTION PAID TO FUNDING THE JUDICIARY ADEQUATELY AS WELL AS OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.

>> Gene: DO POLICY MAKERS REALLY NEED TO RETHINK WHAT IT MEANS TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME?

IS THAT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE AS WELL?

>> Tom: I THINK WE HAVE TO REDEFINE WHAT THAT SOUND BYTE REALLY MEANS.

SO, YEAH, I THINK THAT THERE IS ALWAYS AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF NOT JUST USE THAT SOUND BYTE BUT SAY, OKAY, WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN?

DOES THAT MEAN MORE ARRESTS, MORE CONVICTIONS, AND TO JULIE ANN'S POINT, IT IS REALLY PROPERLY FUNDING THE JUDICIARY HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS.

SO, THAT I THINK IS ONE OF THE ROOTS OF THE ISSUES.

THE OTHER IS THAT YOU HAVE VARIED ELECTED OFFICIALS, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE, WHO ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT WATER MARK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS, BEING TOUGH ON CRIME.

>> Gene: GOT A MINUTE ON THIS ON TOUGH OF CRIME.

SAME QUESTION, SOMETHING HAS GONE OFF THE RAILS HERE WITH THIS IDEA?

>> Julie Ann: CERTAINLY.

I MEAN, I MENTIONED BEFORE THAT I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A BUZZ WORD THAT IS USED BY A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF VOTERS.

IT IS CERTAINLY CODED LANGUAGE.

WE KNOW THAT OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM HAS BEEN UNFAIRLY IMPLEMENTED ON NAME THE GROUP.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO ON THAT FRONT AND THE DEFINITION OF TOUGH ON CRIME DOESN'T REALLY FURTHER THE CONVERSATION.

SO, I AM CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT WILL UNFOLD IN NEW MEXICO AS WE EXPLORE DIFFERENT WAYS TO DEAL WITH THIS.

I THINK ALL OF THESE IDEAS ARE ANTIQUATED AND WE DON'T DO OURSELVES A SERVICE BY JUST STICKING WITH THE EXISTING PARADIGM.

>> Gene: GOOD LAST WORD.

THANKS TO THE PANELISTS FOR THEIR RESEARCH AND THOUGHTS THIS WEEK.

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